PDA

View Full Version : Are TRN stars real?


tenniscrazed
05-22-2009, 11:21 AM
I think relying on TRN could be a huge mistake. Here is just one example of the some of the things I have found in their data.

Player A -- This player was listed as a 4 star recruit as a 12 year old ranked in the top 10 in his graduating year.
In the past four years this player has gone from top 10 in his graduating year to over 350. Yet TRN still has him as a 4 star recruit :confused:

Player B -- This player was listed as a 3 star recruit as a 12 year old ranked +/- 300. 4 years later this player is in the top 50 in his graduating year yet TRN still has him as a 3 star. Now I'm very :confused:

This skewed data, along with the USTA's points per round system further verifies that these "rankings", "stars" etc. have ZERO value.

ClarkC
05-22-2009, 11:50 AM
Try reading the FAQ at the site, then read the other threads on this subject. If that does not explain it, try posting a real example that we can verify. There is no big invasion of privacy in posting someone's name and asking why that player has a certain number of stars.

tenniscrazed
05-22-2009, 12:06 PM
Try reading the FAQ at the site, then read the other threads on this subject. If that does not explain it, try posting a real example that we can verify. There is no big invasion of privacy in posting someone's name and asking why that player has a certain number of stars.

Out of respect for any adult or kid I wouldn't name either one. I will tell you that this example is real. Now whether it is a random mistake in a vast amount of data, I don't know.

I just wonder how many of these types of examples there are. I think you would have to ask them if they could give you the players that have "risen the most" and "fallen the most" then go back over the past years and see if there has ever been an adjustment in the number of "stars".

ClarkC
05-22-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't see how it is disrespectful of John Doe to ask in a public forum, WHy is John Doe still a 3-star when he is ranked in the top 50? If anything, that sounds like you are sticking up for him.

Sorry, but I don't take anyone's word for it, because a lot of nonsense has been posted here along these same lines.

ClarkC
05-22-2009, 12:16 PM
Player B -- This player was listed as a 3 star recruit as a 12 year old ranked +/- 300. 4 years later this player is in the top 50 in his graduating year yet TRN still has him as a 3 star. Now I'm very :confused:



None of the Boy's Top 50 have 3 stars in the current top 50 lists for 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th graders.

Time to get more specific. What graduating year are you talking about?

ClarkC
05-22-2009, 12:20 PM
You can add the graduating class of 2008 (current college freshmen) to the list of years that have not top 50 boys with only 3 stars.

tenniscrazed
05-22-2009, 02:05 PM
I don't see how it is disrespectful of John Doe to ask in a public forum, WHy is John Doe still a 3-star when he is ranked in the top 50? If anything, that sounds like you are sticking up for him.

Sorry, but I don't take anyone's word for it, because a lot of nonsense has been posted here along these same lines.

I agree, there is a lot of garbage posted here along many lines. Here are some other randomly found examples.

Player A, a 5 star ranked 194 (in 2006 however he was ranked 5).
Player B, a 3 star who hasn't played a match in the past 12 months.
Player C, a 3 star ranked 160
Player D, a 3 star ranked 429

I know it's an algorithm using many factors which I can respect. However, does it really make sense that Player A should still be a 5 star just because it was earned on or before 2006? Why is Player C a 3 star if A is a 5? Why does player B even have any stars?

This just makes little sense to me. But I'm sure there is some logic to it.

kctennis1005
05-22-2009, 04:04 PM
I agree, there is a lot of garbage posted here along many lines. Here are some other randomly found examples.

Player A, a 5 star ranked 194 (in 2006 however he was ranked 5).
Player B, a 3 star who hasn't played a match in the past 12 months.
Player C, a 3 star ranked 160
Player D, a 3 star ranked 429

I know it's an algorithm using many factors which I can respect. However, does it really make sense that Player A should still be a 5 star just because it was earned on or before 2006? Why is Player C a 3 star if A is a 5? Why does player B even have any stars?

This just makes little sense to me. But I'm sure there is some logic to it.

dude u seriously need to read the TRN FAQs......they redo the star rating system every October for players(their stars change) and it is as follows

Blue Chip: 1-25
5-Star:26-75
4-Star: 76-200
3-Star: 201-400
2-Star:401-600
1-Star: everyone else

people obviously move around a lot over the course of a year so if a 3-star is 160 then he improved a lot and if a 5-star is 200 then he did poorly over the year

ClarkC
05-22-2009, 04:53 PM
I agree, there is a lot of garbage posted here along many lines. Here are some other randomly found examples.

Player A, a 5 star ranked 194 (in 2006 however he was ranked 5).
Player B, a 3 star who hasn't played a match in the past 12 months.
Player C, a 3 star ranked 160
Player D, a 3 star ranked 429

I know it's an algorithm using many factors which I can respect. However, does it really make sense that Player A should still be a 5 star just because it was earned on or before 2006? Why is Player C a 3 star if A is a 5? Why does player B even have any stars?

This just makes little sense to me. But I'm sure there is some logic to it.

I told you in my first reply to read the FAQs. Apparently you have time to search for random examples but not time to read the FAQs. You have also been called on on your "Player B" example in your original post, which was garbage you were making up, obviously.

tenniscrazed
05-22-2009, 08:29 PM
I told you in my first reply to read the FAQs. Apparently you have time to search for random examples but not time to read the FAQs. You have also been called on on your "Player B" example in your original post, which was garbage you were making up, obviously.

"Garbage in / Garbage out". It all must be due to the October changes the other poster mentioned.

dallasoliver
05-22-2009, 10:02 PM
Hello -

My name is Dallas Oliver, and I work with TennisRecruiting.net. I stop by this board from time to time, and I am happy to answer questions - although Clark and kc have done a good job of answering your questions.

The "stars" - we call them Top Prospect Ratings - are indeed calculated once per year in early fall after all the summer tennis season ends. As Clark says, these ratings correspond exactly with our College Recruiting List rating at the end of August. So the current stars line up with players' rankings at the end of August 2008.

I would be very curious to see an example of a player who has a high rating based on a ranking from 2006... feel free to send me an email at dallas@tennisrecruiting.net and I'd be happy to take a look without revealing anyone's name.

Best,
Dallas

ClarkC
05-23-2009, 06:15 AM
"Garbage in / Garbage out". It all must be due to the October changes the other poster mentioned.

Are you claiming that you were posting, in May, about a situation that you remembered from before October 1? In that case you are a complete waste of everyone's time and should stop posting. Based on your inability to substantiate your claims, that is actually the more charitable interpretation of your posts.

SmAsH999
05-23-2009, 06:25 AM
well, i know a kid with a 4-11 record and he's a 4 star, and next year he's going on a full tennis scholarship since he's an exceptional #1 Varsity high school player.

TennisCoachFLA
05-23-2009, 07:42 AM
well, i know a kid with a 4-11 record and he's a 4 star, and next year he's going on a full tennis scholarship since he's an exceptional #1 Varsity high school player.

We have kids who almost never play USTA tournaments and just play at the top clubs in Florida, many times playing in club events vs excellent adult players. Several get scholarships either through connections at the club who know college coaches or by sending videos.

So there are some 'anonymous' kids who are better players than those highly ranked on TRN.

That being said, it is a very great service that Dallas and TRN provides.

dallasoliver
05-23-2009, 07:49 AM
We have kids who almost never play USTA tournaments and just play at the top clubs in Florida, many times playing in club events vs excellent adult players. Several get scholarships either through connections at the club who know college coaches or by sending videos.

So there are some 'anonymous' kids who are better players than those highly ranked on TRN.

I don't doubt that there are many such situations. We believe that the TRN ranking system is excellent for kids who play USTA and ITF tournaments, and that population is the vast bulk of kids.

But, as I have mentioned in many other posts, we are unable to use club or open events because our system requires a lot of cross-play... players who perform well at adult tournaments exclusively will not not get the credit they deserve in our system. Our experience, however, is that the majority of kids who transition to open events make that transition during their senior year - after they have already received their last TRN rating.

Best,
Dallas

TennisCoachFLA
05-23-2009, 08:48 AM
I don't doubt that there are many such situations. We believe that the TRN ranking system is excellent for kids who play USTA and ITF tournaments, and that population is the vast bulk of kids.

But, as I have mentioned in many other posts, we are unable to use club or open events because our system requires a lot of cross-play... players who perform well at adult tournaments exclusively will not not get the credit they deserve in our system. Our experience, however, is that the majority of kids who transition to open events make that transition during their senior year - after they have already received their last TRN rating.

Best,
Dallas

Very true. I can only think of about 5 kids I know, out of hundreds, who went outside the junior system and landed scholarships.