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View Full Version : Mcenroe/Borg-Federer/Nadal - M.O.T or No? (POLL)


bolo
05-23-2009, 10:55 AM
I think there are great parallels between how mcenroe chased down borg and nadal chased down federer. Mostly parallels in game styles and talent. But imo nadal and federer are stronger players (Fed's got more power than mcenroe and nadal has more tennis skills than borg) than borg and mcenroe and so we are getting to see an interesting variation on that rivalry.

At this point the comparison is diverging pretty quickly, but I think it's interesting to continue the comparison for a little while longer. In borg/mcenroe time we are entering the 81 U.S. open. Soon after the 81 wimbledon loss, mcenroe solidified his standing on his safe haven surface with yet another U.S. open victory against borg. That was borg's last real impressive performance on the tour. He more or less walked out of the stadium and tennis after that loss.

The way I see it, the equivalent of mcenroe winning that 81 U.S. open against borg is nadal winning another french against federer. Imo federer will not leave the game if he loses another FO final to Nadal, partly because he has something he wants, to break the sampras record; partly because his game is easier to execute at the pro level than borg's.

But still I am wondering if this is a moment of truth for federer, if he makes it to the RG final, like it might have been for borg at that U.S. open, or will it not really matter at all psychologically if he has another loss to nadal. There are some signs that federer is taking some serious hits from these matches. He has gone on record as saying the last year might have really started from his loss to nadal at the FO. ALso after the 08 wimbledon loss, federer played some terrible hard court tennis. Bad enough that I thought blake had a chance in his match versus fed.

Alternatively it's also interesting to think about this from nadal's perspective. Fed./Nadal matches are tight affairs off the red clay. Wimbledon 08, Wimbledon 07, Australian 08, miami 05, dubai 06, these are tight matches that could have gone either way imo. Wilander also has an interesting quote that says that the first time federer beats nadal on clay is the last time federer loses to nadal on any surface. That's a bold statement but wilander is a bright guy and of course he was one of the first commentators to call out fed's weak play against nadal after the 2006 FO final (when most everyone, including me, were hemming and hawing that fed. probably knows what he is doing), so something to consider.

So I am wondering IF they meet in the RG final whether it is a REALLY significant match for either of them in their rivlary or just another routine match and they will go about their business in their usual manners after it is done.


I don't agree with it but an interesting old article from wilander below:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/frenchopen/2302647/French-Open-Bjorn-Borg-and-Mats-Wilander-are-backing-Roger-Federer-to-beat-Rafael-Nadal.html

fps
05-23-2009, 11:16 AM
I think there are great parallels between how mcenroe chased down borg and nadal chased down federer. Mostly parallels in game styles and talent. But imo nadal and federer are stronger players (Fed's got more power than mcenroe and nadal has more tennis skills than borg) than borg and mcenroe and so we are getting to see an interesting variation on that rivalry.

At this point the comparison is diverging pretty quickly, but I think it's interesting to continue the comparison for a little while longer. In borg/mcenroe time we are entering the 81 U.S. open. Soon after the 81 wimbledon loss, mcenroe solidified his standing on his safe haven surface with yet another U.S. open victory against borg. That was borg's last real impressive performance on the tour. He more or less walked out of the stadium and tennis after that loss.

The way I see it, the equivalent of mcenroe winning that 81 U.S. open against borg is nadal winning another french against federer. Imo federer will not leave the game if he loses another FO final to Nadal, partly because he has something he wants, to break the sampras record; partly because his game is easier to execute at the pro level than borg's.

But still I am wondering if this is a moment of truth for federer, if he makes it to the RG final, like it might have been for borg at that U.S. open, or will it not really matter at all psychologically if he has another loss to nadal. There are some signs that federer is taking some serious hits from these matches. He has gone on record as saying the last year might have really started from his loss to nadal at the FO. ALso after the 08 wimbledon loss, federer played some terrible hard court tennis. Bad enough that I thought blake had a chance in his match versus fed.

Alternatively it's also interesting to think about this from nadal's perspective. Fed./Nadal matches are tight affairs off the red clay. Wimbledon 08, Wimbledon 07, Australian 08, miami 05, dubai 06, these are tight matches that could have gone either way imo. Wilander also has an interesting quote that says that the first time federer beats nadal on clay is the last time federer loses to nadal on any surface. That's a bold statement but wilander is a bright guy and of course he was one of the first commentators to call out fed's weak play against nadal after the 2006 FO final (when most everyone, including me, were hemming and hawing that fed. probably knows what he is doing), so something to consider.

So I am wondering IF they meet in the RG final whether it is a REALLY significant match for either of them in their rivlary or just another routine match and they will go about their business in their usual manners after it is done.


I don't agree with it but an interesting old article from wilander below:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/frenchopen/2302647/French-Open-Bjorn-Borg-and-Mats-Wilander-are-backing-Roger-Federer-to-beat-Rafael-Nadal.html

interesting, there are certainly parallels between borg/mcenroe and federer/nadal, ironic considering nadal's status as current embodiment of a borgian style of tennis.

but i think the key potential matchups between them this year will be at wimbledon and the USO. wimbledon was a total toss-up last year, and nadal deserved it by virtue of being the one who got to the finish line. federer will be thinking another title there in 09 is a definite possibility, whereas he's always the underdog on clay. the day Nadal beats him at the USO is the day he loses all hope of winning another slam, to me.

bluescreen
05-23-2009, 11:25 AM
when did wilander make that comment about when fed beats nadal on clay thats the last time he'll lose to him? cuz fed beat nadal at hamburg in '07, but there h2h (at least from fed's perspective) took a nose dive after that.

that being said, i dont think this year's FO is the equivalent of the '81 us open. i think this year's wimbledon would be a better comparison. federer has never won the french, but most of his career and high level of play has a foundation at wimbledon and if he cant regain the title there (and i think with it his confidence) he'll never regain his best tennis.

bolo
05-23-2009, 11:29 AM
when did wilander make that comment about when fed beats nadal on clay thats the last time he'll lose to him? cuz fed beat nadal at hamburg in '07, but there h2h (at least from fed's perspective) took a nose dive after that.

that being said, i dont think this year's FO is the equivalent of the '81 us open. i think this year's wimbledon would be a better comparison. federer has never won the french, but most of his career and high level of play has a foundation at wimbledon and if he cant regain the title there (and i think with it his confidence) he'll never regain his best tennis.

It's in the link at the end of my first post, it looks like he said it sometime before the 08 RG. I think wilander probably feels the win on clay must come at RG for it to count. :)

bolo
05-23-2009, 11:33 AM
interesting, there are certainly parallels between borg/mcenroe and federer/nadal, ironic considering nadal's status as current embodiment of a borgian style of tennis.

but i think the key potential matchups between them this year will be at wimbledon and the USO. wimbledon was a total toss-up last year, and nadal deserved it by virtue of being the one who got to the finish line. federer will be thinking another title there in 09 is a definite possibility, whereas he's always the underdog on clay. the day Nadal beats him at the USO is the day he loses all hope of winning another slam, to me.

Well I think there might be something in the accumulation of losses. Even in borg's case the U.S. open loss was on borg's worst surface. But that just might be more evidence for the fact that borg leaving tennis had little to do with his losses to mcenroe. Hard to say.

But yeah, I agree wimbledon is going to be really important for federer.