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babbette
05-25-2009, 05:07 PM
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/especiales/2009/05/roland_garros/consultorio/index.html

it's part of his Spanish blog. Maybe if someone is bothered they can translate some interesting bits. If not there's google translate.:)

5 .- Who do you think is better on the clay at the moment: Djokovic or Federer? Who do you prefer face in the finals? Tries to be politically incorrect and get wet .... Thank you very much
I think Djokovic. He won in Rome and Roger is the one that has achieved the best results of the two this season on the ground (a finalist in Monte Carlo and Rome champion in Belgrade). I look to the next match and not a hypothetical final. That, to me, is getting wet. The other is not realistic, believe me.

T1000
05-25-2009, 05:07 PM
how many wins does joke have against rafa on clay? thank you

bolo
05-25-2009, 05:09 PM
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/especiales/2009/05/roland_garros/consultorio/index.html

it's part of his Spanish blog. Maybe if someone is bothered they can translate some interesting bits. If not there's google translate.:)

we will find out soon enough. :)

raiden031
05-25-2009, 05:11 PM
how many wins does joke have against rafa on clay? thank you

Roger's wins against Rafa on clay don't count because the surface is different.

Mick
05-25-2009, 05:14 PM
technique wise, it's possible that djokovic is better than federer on clay but federer is mentally stronger than djokovic, i think federer should win the match if they meet in the semifinal.

TheTruth
05-25-2009, 05:18 PM
Rafa has an easier time playing Federer on clay than Djokovic. Novak is the obvious answer. Rafa would be lying if he said Federer.

prosealster
05-25-2009, 05:18 PM
nads knows at rolland garros...he can just switch off his tennis brain and **** fed's backhand all day...where as against joker..he'll actually have to construct some points

babbette
05-25-2009, 05:18 PM
Roger's wins against Rafa on clay don't count because the surface is different.
Garros this year seems harder than ever, This year Roland Garros seems more difficult than never, the victory of Federer in Madrid has descended us a little the myth of "Nobody beats Nadal on clay and less Federer" Do you believe that that can be suitable you to endeavor you more and to win the revenge in Paris?

I do not think so. Always better to win and be confident. Always said that Federer is a great player and it still shows. I think that Madrid is not very significant because the surface conditions and the ball are different. Here the ball is in the racket and feel differently. In Madrid, again, the conditions were so favorable to me though were the same for everyone.

..............................................

egn
05-25-2009, 05:25 PM
Better hear no crying Rafa fans next time 380pistol or GameSampras etc. jump on the slow grass train as you clearly support the madrid win does not count as it was on "fast clay" so when slow grass is brought up I will be amazed to not see you all jump on it.

TheTruth
05-25-2009, 05:32 PM
Better hear no crying Rafa fans next time 380pistol or GameSampras etc. jump on the slow grass train as you clearly support the madrid win does not count as it was on "fast clay" so when slow grass is brought up I will be amazed to not see you all jump on it.

Not all Rafa fans support this theory. I find Madrid's win dubious in that Nadal won three straight tournaments while Federer went out early in a couple of them. Then in the fourth tournament Rafa played a four hour match, so it's hard to take that as a win and ignore all of the other circumstances surrounding it.

Nadal_Freak
05-25-2009, 05:34 PM
Very well said Rafa. We know how easy Federer is when your 100%. Getting through Djokovic is exhausting however.

egn
05-25-2009, 05:39 PM
Not all Rafa fans support this theory. I find Madrid's win dubious in that Nadal won three straight tournaments while Federer went out early in a couple of them. Then in the fourth tournament Rafa played a four hour match, so it's hard to take that as a win and ignore all of the other circumstances surrounding it.

A win is a win though it is not Fed's fault though that Rafa was tired he came out and played who he played against. Same way I don't hold any of Rafa's victories accountable as if to the other player was "tired" etc. A tennis match is played on the court for the time it is played and that is that. Sampras puked on court and still won a match, best of 5, I think a little bit of tiredness can be overcome.

TheTruth
05-25-2009, 05:43 PM
A win is a win though it is not Fed's fault though that Rafa was tired he came out and played who he played against. Same way I don't hold any of Rafa's victories accountable as if to the other player was "tired" etc. A tennis match is played on the court for the time it is played and that is that. Sampras puked on court and still won a match, best of 5, I think a little bit of tiredness can be overcome.

I'm not saying it's Fed fault Nadal played tired. I'm saying I don't put a lot of stock in that result because of the circumstances.

akv89
05-25-2009, 05:51 PM
We have yet to see Djokovic challenge Nadal in a 5-set match, and Federer has done more in his 11 meetings against Nadal on clay than Djokovic has in his 9. Although, I think Nadal currently feels more comfortable mentally about playing against Federer than Djokovic since he seems to have a concrete and clear game plan when playing against Federer.

icedevil0289
05-25-2009, 05:53 PM
I think he's basically saying that based on current results, nole is better than roger on clay, which is true. Aside from madrid, roger really hasn't delivered, where as nole has.

Rhino
05-25-2009, 05:54 PM
Roger's wins against Rafa on clay don't count because the surface is different.

Really? That's weird, I checked the atp site and apparently they do count.
Odd.

BobFL
05-25-2009, 06:33 PM
federer is mentally stronger than djokovic...

You cannot be serious :) Nole's strokes never imploded like Federer's. Never.

crazylevity
05-25-2009, 06:36 PM
^^ Yeah...they just break down due to exhaustion.

BobFL
05-25-2009, 06:40 PM
^^ Nope, I was talking about mental breakdown, crying, racquet abuse, etc.

Nadal_Freak
05-25-2009, 06:40 PM
^^ Yeah...they just break down due to exhaustion.
I didn't see any breakdown in the final set in Madrid and that was their longest match they've played.

flyer
05-25-2009, 06:57 PM
how many wins does joke have against rafa on clay? thank you

i think nadal would know....

anyway i really like nadal's spanish interviews/press of any kind more than english, hes so much more open, insightful, and revealing...you get a tiny glipse of what he actually might be thinking...

bruce38
05-25-2009, 06:59 PM
Djokovic doesn't have the fire power or consistency to stay with Nadal on clay for 5 sets (he'd likely tire out), at least not yet. Fed has an outside chance if he plays extremely well. The match is always on Fed's hand as he himself has said.

flyer
05-25-2009, 07:03 PM
Djokovic doesn't have the fire power or consistency to stay with Nadal on clay for 5 sets (he'd likely tire out), at least not yet. Fed has an outside chance if he plays extremely well. The match is always on Fed's hand as he himself has said.

at what point was last years final "on Fed's hand" ?

bruce38
05-25-2009, 07:09 PM
at what point was last years final "on Fed's hand" ?

At what point in last year's final did Fed play well?

mbstriker
05-25-2009, 07:10 PM
just makes fed even more hungry!

bolo
05-25-2009, 07:11 PM
At what point in last year's final did Fed play well?

Fed. played at his highest clay court level in the 2007 F.........lost in 4 sets.

bruce38
05-25-2009, 07:14 PM
Fed. played at his highest clay court level in the 2007 F.........lost in 4 sets.

No way, 2006 was much closer, still lost in 4 though. But that was then, this is now.

CyBorg
05-25-2009, 07:16 PM
Watching Federer today against Martin it looked pretty apparent to me that Djokovic is better. Of course, things happen - injuries occur, wind can blow the wrong way or someone could get a tummy ache. Maybe Federer will beat Djoker in the semi.

But I'd be surprised. Roger on the RG clay is just not as good as he would pretend to be.

Nadal would wipe the floor with Martin. Federer however was shanking and spraying errors left and right. It was hard to watch.

bolo
05-25-2009, 07:17 PM
No way, 2006 was much closer, still lost in 4 though. But that was then, this is now.

Maybe, I thought he played well in the 1st set in 2006, but he really folded in the next 3. In 2007 I thought he kept up steady pressure the entire 4 sets. He gave himself some good chances to at least take another set in 2007.

bruce38
05-25-2009, 07:17 PM
Watching Federer today against Martin it looked pretty apparent to me that Djokovic is better. Of course, things happen - injuries occur, wind can blow the wrong way or someone could get a tummy ache. Maybe Federer will beat Djoker in the semi.

But I'd be surprised. Roger on the RG clay is just not as good as he would pretend to be.

Nadal would wipe the floor with Martin. Federer however was shanking and spraying errors left and right. It was hard to watch.

Fed usually gets better as the tourney progresses. I agree though, he didn't look yet that good even though the score shows otherwise.

imalil2gangsta4u
05-25-2009, 07:18 PM
^^ Yeah...they just break down due to exhaustion.

I dont think it would be a very long match if they were to play. When i say not long, i mean not as long as his matches with nadal. Its hard to call but i think Roger would have a slight edge over Nole if they met.

bruce38
05-25-2009, 07:19 PM
Maybe, I thought he played well in the 1st set in 2006, but he really folded in the next 3. In 2007 I thought he kept up steady pressure the entire 4 sets. He gave himself some good chances to at least take another set in 2007.

Folded in the last 3?? Third set was 6-4 and 4th set he lost in a tie breaker. He was a few points away from a 5-setter. 2006 was much closer.

bolo
05-25-2009, 07:23 PM
Folded in the last 3?? Third set was 6-4 and 4th set he lost in a tie breaker. He was a few points away from a 5-setter. 2006 was much closer.

really lost and passive in the last 3. Didn't know what to do, note the famous wilander diatribe after the match ended. In that match he was actually down a break in the 4th set but came on a little bit right at the end to take it into a breaker. But lost the breaker in a typical manner.

In 2007, he improved his backhand a bit and he gave himself many break chances, but nadal just raised his game on a lot of those points and shut him down. Great effort though, I was definitely nervous watching that match. :)

egn
05-25-2009, 07:26 PM
Watching Federer today against Martin it looked pretty apparent to me that Djokovic is better. Of course, things happen - injuries occur, wind can blow the wrong way or someone could get a tummy ache. Maybe Federer will beat Djoker in the semi.

But I'd be surprised. Roger on the RG clay is just not as good as he would pretend to be.

Nadal would wipe the floor with Martin. Federer however was shanking and spraying errors left and right. It was hard to watch.

The same way Nadal wiped the floor with Marcos Daniel? It is first round of a slam neither player is pushing it they were playing guys ranked 98 Fed still won 6-4, 6-3, 6-2 he was definitely not pushing it. You are using a 1R slam match that Federer played to determine that Djokovic is better...because you claim the way Federer played today it is apparent Djokovic is better. I mean come on that is like saying Nadal is awful on clay he had 30 UE..lets make conclusions on reasonable grounds.

bruce38
05-25-2009, 07:26 PM
really lost and passive in the last 3. Didn't know what to do, note the famous wilander diatribe after the match ended. In that match he was actually down a break in the 4th set but came on a little bit right at the end to take it into a breaker. But lost the breaker in a typical manner.

In 2007, he improved his backhand a bit and he gave himself many break chances, but nadal just raised his game on a lot of those points and shut him down. Great effort though, I was definitely nervous watching that match. :)

The numbers don't lie, neither do the matches, I have both on tape. He was edgy throughout the match in 2007. Even I was feeling edgy as I was watching it and it just seemed from the start he couldn't win, you could see it on his face. In 2006, I thought he was going to win for sure. Who cares what Wilander says, just watch the matches. The tie-break was lost 7-4. He was a few points away from 5 sets. Even the 3rd set he only lost by a close break. Nowhere close to that in 2007.

jppc
05-25-2009, 07:33 PM
if anyone cares for the translation ill do it but, it seems that most of what you like is arguing i'll have a go at it anyways:

5.- ¿Quién crees que se encuentra mejor en tierra en este momento: Djokovic o Federer? ¿A cuál prefieres enfrentarte en la final? Intenta ser políticamente incorrecto y mojarte.... Muchas gracias
Creo que Djokovic. Le ha ganado a Roger en Roma y es el que ha conseguido mejores resultados de los dos esta temporada en tierra (finalista en Montecarlo y Roma, campeón en Belgrado). Yo miro al siguiente partido y no a una hipotética final. Eso, para mí, es mojarme. Lo otro es no ser realista, creeme.

------------translation----------------

5.-Who do you think is better right now on clay: Djokovic or Federer? Who do you rather play against in the final? Try to be politically incorrect and go for it...thanks very much

I think Djokovic, he has beaten Federer in Rome, and he is the one with the better results on clay this season (Finalist in Monte Carlo and Rome, champion in Belgrade). I always look at my next match and not at a hypothetical final. That for me is going out of the water (slang for over predicting or something like that). The other thing is not being a realist, believe me.

here it is..

CyBorg
05-25-2009, 07:36 PM
The same way Nadal wiped the floor with Marcos Daniel? It is first round of a slam neither player is pushing it they were playing guys ranked 98 Fed still won 6-4, 6-3, 6-2 he was definitely not pushing it. You are using a 1R slam match that Federer played to determine that Djokovic is better...because you claim the way Federer played today it is apparent Djokovic is better. I mean come on that is like saying Nadal is awful on clay he had 30 UE..lets make conclusions on reasonable grounds.

Eh, I saw that match too. Daniel played well and has good groundstrokes.

Martin conversely had very little to give. He's an old, crafty dude. But those are some of the worst groundies I've seen in some time and they were giving Federer a hard time.

jppc
05-25-2009, 07:36 PM
when he says "The other thing is not being a realist" he means that Djokovic obviously has had the better results on clay this season, and that means that he is better than federer on clay right now

Nadal_Freak
05-25-2009, 07:37 PM
when he says "The other thing is not being a realist" he means that Djokovic obviously has had the better results on clay this season, and that means that he is better than federer on clay right now
Yep. Fed fans still won't admit that Djokovic is better on clay. Pathetic I know.

bruce38
05-25-2009, 07:40 PM
Yep. Fed fans still won't admit that Djokovic is better on clay. Pathetic I know.

Well the proof will be in the pudding. You agree that if Djokovic loses to Fed in the semi, assuming both get there, that Fed is better? And vice versa of course.

egn
05-25-2009, 07:40 PM
Eh, I saw that match too. Daniel played well and has good groundstrokes.

Martin conversely had very little to give. He's an old, crafty dude. But those are some of the worst groundies I've seen in some time and they were giving Federer a hard time.

Explain the 30+ unforced errors no player ranked 97 has that good off a ground game to challenge the 4 time reigning french open champion and make him play that badly..I watched both matches and neither gave much of anything and the same was with Fed and Nadal both were obviously far from playing 100 percent.

Solomon
05-25-2009, 07:41 PM
Yep. Fed fans still won't admit that Djokovic is better on clay. Pathetic I know.

Going by most recent results....

Djoker lost to Nadal.

Fed beat Nadal.

Go figure.

egn
05-25-2009, 07:42 PM
Yep. Fed fans still won't admit that Djokovic is better on clay. Pathetic I know.

We will find out at RG right now their clay court h2h is tied at 2-2 and last I checked accomplishment wise Fed has 5 master shields on clay to Djokovic 1. Whoever wins their RG meeting I will consider the better claycourter at the moment, career wise however Federer still gets the edge.

jppc
05-25-2009, 07:45 PM
Yep. Fed fans still won't admit that Djokovic is better on clay. Pathetic I know.

well to me is not pathetic, i differ on that, 'cause federer is a great all around player, and people like him and want him to do better, just how you like nadal, but we have to be objective on results and results show that Djokovic is better again Rafa said "esta temporada" wich means "This season", because to me Federer was better than Djokovic last season.. and results show that.

On the other hand, on another part of the answers Rafa says that he has great results this season and for him Winning monte carlo, barcelona and rome is even better than winning roland garros, and he admits that he is not as strong as he was last season on clay

GPG
05-25-2009, 07:48 PM
We will find out at RG right now their clay court h2h is tied at 2-2 and last I checked accomplishment wise Fed has 5 master shields on clay to Djokovic 1. Whoever wins their RG meeting I will consider the better claycourter at the moment, career wise however Federer still gets the edge.

QFT

By numbers, it can be argued that Nole has done better than Roger, But still he has a better career on clay + the title in Madrid. Lets wait for the eventual semifinal between this 2 guys on next week's Friday to see who's the current 2nd best CC player (or probably the best if the winner of that eventual semifinal become RG 09 Champ)

CyBorg
05-25-2009, 07:55 PM
Explain the 30+ unforced errors no player ranked 97 has that good off a ground game to challenge the 4 time reigning french open champion and make him play that badly..I watched both matches and neither gave much of anything and the same was with Fed and Nadal both were obviously far from playing 100 percent.

Point taken. I think Federer is the one with something to prove here though and a bad start doesn't look good to my eye. With Nadal, one can expect him to get better.

Watching Roger today, I got flashbacks to past Roland Garros events. Same weaknesses, same mistakes, no real improvement.

Can't see a way to place positive spin here.

Grizvok
05-25-2009, 08:08 PM
Going by most recent results....

Djoker lost to Nadal.

Fed beat Nadal.

Go figure.

Uh actually the most relevant result would be that Djokovic BEAT Federer.

Go figure, right?

GPG
05-25-2009, 08:10 PM
this fight is like who's pokemon's better

charmander beats bulbasaur, but bulbasuar beats squirtle... but wait! squirtle beats charmander!!!!

cutt if off:neutral:

sh@de
05-25-2009, 08:42 PM
I think Federer's better than Djokovic on clay. Just because Djoker seems to put up a better fight against Nadal than Federer does doesn't mean he's better. It's about match ups. Nadal is a horrible match up for Federer so he gets spanked.

imalil2gangsta4u
05-25-2009, 09:08 PM
I think Federer's better than Djokovic on clay. Just because Djoker seems to put up a better fight against Nadal than Federer does doesn't mean he's better. It's about match ups. Nadal is a horrible match up for Federer so he gets spanked.

Exactly what i was saying. Does playing good against rafa on clay mean djokovic is better on clay than federer? nope. Until he proves he can beat federer on the big stage on clay, federer still has the edge.

Sentinel
05-25-2009, 09:10 PM
Nadal said that ??

How awfully arrogant -- why doesn't Rafa let his racquet do the talking?

(sorry for reusing your line, N-F)

Nadal_Freak
05-25-2009, 09:12 PM
Nadal said that ??

How awfully arrogant -- why doesn't Rafa let his racquet do the talking?

(sorry for reusing your line, N-F)
Fail attempt. Nadal was just being honest as most already know that aren't *******s.

Grizvok
05-25-2009, 09:13 PM
Nadal said that ??

How awfully arrogant -- why doesn't Rafa let his racquet do the talking?

(sorry for reusing your line, N-F)

He answered the question, OH NO!

BreakPoint
05-25-2009, 09:14 PM
Roger's wins against Rafa on clay don't count because the surface is different.
Yes, one was too slow and the other was too fast. Neither was the perfect consistency of clay that Nadal can only win on. It's just like if one of his water bottles was out of alignment. How can you possibly expect the poor guy to win under those adverse conditions?

BreakPoint
05-25-2009, 09:16 PM
Yep. Fed fans still won't admit that Djokovic is better on clay. Pathetic I know.
Because we all know Federer is better at beating Nadal on clay than Djkovic is, and that's all that really matters, isn't it? :oops:

Nadal_Freak
05-25-2009, 09:18 PM
Because we all know Federer is better at beating Nadal on clay than Djkovic is, and that's all that really matters, isn't it? :oops:
Sadly I don't have the energy to argue with biggest Nadal haters on this board. I prefer posters closer to neutral. Yeah I know it's not possible to be right in the middle but it brings better arguements when you aren't so obvious.

BreakPoint
05-25-2009, 09:20 PM
Watching Federer today against Martin it looked pretty apparent to me that Djokovic is better. Of course, things happen - injuries occur, wind can blow the wrong way or someone could get a tummy ache. Maybe Federer will beat Djoker in the semi.

But I'd be surprised. Roger on the RG clay is just not as good as he would pretend to be.

Nadal would wipe the floor with Martin. Federer however was shanking and spraying errors left and right. It was hard to watch.
You mean like the way Nadal wiped the floor with Daniels? I thought that was a much closer match than the Federer-Martin match. How many times did Daniels break Nadal today? Even at love?

jms007
05-25-2009, 09:20 PM
I think they're pretty damn close. I wouldn't put one above the other at the moment. It's kind of hard to tell because on one hand Federer beat Nadal, but Djokovic beat Federer.

BreakPoint
05-25-2009, 09:25 PM
Sadly I don't have the energy to argue with biggest Nadal haters on this board. I prefer posters closer to neutral. Yeah I know it's not possible to be right in the middle but it brings better arguements when you aren't so obvious.
Does it really matter how good Djokovic is on clay if he can't beat Nadal? How is he ever going to win RG then? Or any other major clay court tournament when Nadal's in the draw unless Nadal is injured?

Sentinel
05-25-2009, 09:25 PM
Sadly I don't have the energy to argue with biggest Nadal haters on this board. I prefer posters closer to neutral. Yeah I know it's not possible to be right in the middle but it brings better arguements when you aren't so obvious.

Now now, no one can possibly be as neutral as you, Nadal_freak. And also the hate thing. I can say I've never seen a Federer hate post from you, like EVER. And you certainly aren't so obvious either.

*chuckle*

Nadal_Freak
05-25-2009, 09:27 PM
Does it really matter how good Djokovic is on clay if he can't beat Nadal? How is he ever going to win RG then? Or any other major clay court tournament when Nadal's in the draw unless Nadal is injured?
Just look at it like how hard it would be for Federer to always face Nadal in the semis after he has an easy draw before that. A scrappy Nadal spells doom for Fed I'm sorry to say. Nadal as well as anyone else knows that you can't play 4 hours the day before the final and expect to be able to play the same for the final.

Stchamps
05-25-2009, 09:33 PM
God here goes nadal again trash talking everyone like he always does. This guy is so ignorant im ashamed of the atp for allowing a world number 1 like this.

edberg505
05-25-2009, 10:26 PM
Ugh, I don't even know why this question was asked. We will all find out who is better in just under 2 weeks.

DownTheLine
05-25-2009, 10:31 PM
I'm not saying it's Fed fault Nadal played tired. I'm saying I don't put a lot of stock in that result because of the circumstances.
You fail to see that back in 2005 and 2006 Federer was playing more matches then Nadal and winning a huge percentage in straight sets so don't use the Nadal is tired excuse maybe from being up late on Rogers balls?

TheTruth
05-25-2009, 10:45 PM
You fail to see that back in 2005 and 2006 Federer was playing more matches then Nadal and winning a huge percentage in straight sets so don't use the Nadal is tired excuse maybe from being up late on Rogers balls?

It's common sense to me. But, I'm fair, if Roger and Novak both get to the semis and play a long, drawn out match and the winner has nothing left for the final I'll understand. I won't pretend that the semi has no bearing on the final. Same if Rafa and Murray do the same.

Nadal_Freak
05-25-2009, 10:48 PM
It's common sense to me. But, I'm fair, if Roger and Novak both get to the semis and play a long, drawn out match and the winner has nothing left for the final I'll understand. I won't pretend that the semi has no bearing on the final. Same if Rafa and Murray do the same.
Good to know Nadal fans are very understanding here.

Sentinel
05-26-2009, 02:27 AM
God here goes nadal again trash talking everyone like he always does. This guy is so ignorant im ashamed of the atp for allowing a world number 1 like this.
ROTFL!

Yeah, rankings should be given based on press conferences and speeches, and how many languages you can speak properly. :)

FlamEnemY
05-26-2009, 02:32 AM
It's common sense to me. But, I'm fair, if Roger and Novak both get to the semis and play a long, drawn out match and the winner has nothing left for the final I'll understand. I won't pretend that the semi has no bearing on the final. Same if Rafa and Murray do the same.

Don't bet on it :)

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:40 AM
Such hypocrisy from Rafa and some his fans, it's unbelievable.

Yes, Novak is better than Roger on clay.
That's why Federer has 2 wins against Rafa on clay, while Djokovic has none.
That's why Roger has 2 wins against Djokovic on clay, while Djokovic has one.

TheTruth, you're saying: "Rafa has an easier time playing Federer on clay than Djokovic"

Really? Need I remind you of Rome 2006? Hamburg 2007? Hamburg 2008? How about some Monte Carlo 2006? Madrid 2009?

Aside of ONE match (which would be RG 2008 ), Rafa always had a tough time against Roger on clay. Almost always lost sets, always pushed to the limits, and 2 times even lost. I like Rafa a lot, but this is the most pathetic and dishonest thing he could say.

janipyt05
05-26-2009, 02:44 AM
Not all Rafa fans support this theory. I find Madrid's win dubious in that Nadal won three straight tournaments while Federer went out early in a couple of them. Then in the fourth tournament Rafa played a four hour match, so it's hard to take that as a win and ignore all of the other circumstances surrounding it.

Well i partly agree that Rafa was tired but its his job to play from one tournement to the next it sound like you are making an excuses for Rafa, Rafa himself was unsure whether he wanted to play Madrid but he did so maybe next time he will not play. I do feel he was more tired but still Federer won that match with some great tactics had Rafa been less tired i feel it would have been harder for Fed as to whether Rafa would have won we will never know.

aphex
05-26-2009, 02:50 AM
Sadly I don't have the energy to argue with biggest Nadal haters on this board. I prefer posters closer to neutral. Yeah I know it's not possible to be right in the middle but it brings better arguements when you aren't so obvious.

http://blogs.townonline.com/cambridge/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/lol1.jpg

stormholloway
05-26-2009, 02:54 AM
Such hypocrisy from Rafa and some his fans, it's unbelievable.

Yes, Novak is better than Roger on clay.
That's why Federer has 2 wins against Rafa on clay, while Djokovic has none.
That's why Roger has 2 wins against Djokovic on clay, while Djokovic has one.

TheTruth, you're saying: "Rafa has an easier time playing Federer on clay than Djokovic"

Really? Need I remind you of Rome 2006? Hamburg 2007? Hamburg 2008? How about some Monte Carlo 2006? Madrid 2009?

Aside of ONE match (which would be RG 2008 ), Rafa always had a tough time against Roger on clay. Almost always lost sets, always pushed to the limits, and 2 times even lost. I like Rafa a lot, but this is the most pathetic and dishonest thing he could say.

Case closed.

What we've seen recently is that Djokovic prefers to play Rafa's kind of tennis. He plays Rafa's game. In Madrid, Federer simply didn't play into Rafa's hands. He went for winners. He mixed things up. He stepped hard around the backhand.

Maybe Rafa just thinks Djokovic plays a more classic baseline game on the surface, but the results show that Federer is clearly better on it. When Djokovic gets a win against either of this guys, wake up me.

jelle v
05-26-2009, 03:08 AM
I think Federer's better than Djokovic on clay. Just because Djoker seems to put up a better fight against Nadal than Federer does doesn't mean he's better. It's about match ups. Nadal is a horrible match up for Federer so he gets spanked.

Exactly.. Djokovic doesn't have the high cross forehand to Federer's backhand (which is the main reason for Nadal to beat Fed) but no one will listen to this reasoning..

I actually think Federer will win against Djokovic because Federer is more in his comfort zone against Djokovic. Not saying it is impossible for Djokovic to win, because he has good chances. I would say 60% Fed and 40% Djokovic.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 03:09 AM
I think Federer's better than Djokovic on clay. Just because Djoker seems to put up a better fight against Nadal than Federer does doesn't mean he's better. It's about match ups. Nadal is a horrible match up for Federer so he gets spanked.

I agree for the most part. However, when, other than RG08, did Federer get spanked by Nadal in a clay match?

Rhino
05-26-2009, 03:16 AM
Roger: two wins over Nadal on clay. 3 RG finals. A total of 11 sets taken from Rafa on clay (including a bagel).

Novak: zero wins over Nadal on clay. zero RG finals. Only 3 sets in total taken off Rafa on clay in 9 clay matches!!

The stats speak for themselves.

thejoe
05-26-2009, 03:33 AM
I'm sick of this crap about the Madrid final.

Did Rafa really play for 4 hours the day before? No. It was much, much less due to both players taking injury time-outs, and the 40+ (!) second breaks between points. There is no way the match was as strenuous as you all make out.

Also, where exactly did Nadal show he was tired in the final? Federer refused to let him rally. At no point did Nadal not reach a ball he would have normally. At no point did he break down due to tiredness. We all know he has trouble against aggressive players, and we all know that Federer usually is too stubborn to change anything. He changed his game, served well, and didn't attempt to play Rafa's game, which would have been silly. Federer beat Nadal. End of.

The conditions still favoured Nadal. It was on clay. No clay court in the world is better for Fed than Rafa. People (ie. King humble Nadal) were complaining about the high bounce and speed of the court. Nadal_Freak, you have many, many times stated that it is not the speed of the court that affects Rafa (don't deny it, you have stated this in response to posters talking trash about Nadal's chances at old Wimbledon) but the height of the bounce. Surely then, a high bouncing court favours Rafa over Roger? Apparently not according to some well-known Nadal trolls. Of course, because Federer's eastern grip forehand and eastern grip one-handed backhand are much better suited to taking the ball at head-height than Rafa's western grip forehand and double hander... Give me a break :rolleyes:

raiden031
05-26-2009, 04:11 AM
This debate will be completely moot if Djokovic retires prior to the semi's because he comes down with an itch or a sore throat.

Dilettante
05-26-2009, 04:14 AM
I prefer posters closer to neutral.

Surrealistic.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 04:19 AM
Case closed.

What we've seen recently is that Djokovic prefers to play Rafa's kind of tennis. He plays Rafa's game. In Madrid, Federer simply didn't play into Rafa's hands. He went for winners. He mixed things up. He stepped hard around the backhand.

Maybe Rafa just thinks Djokovic plays a more classic baseline game on the surface, but the results show that Federer is clearly better on it. When Djokovic gets a win against either of this guys, wake up me.

Now more than ever I hope Roger spanks both Djoko and Nadal and shut everyone's mouths. It probably won't happen, but one can hope.

vtmike
05-26-2009, 04:32 AM
Its funny how some Nadal fans seem to like Djokovic more....that is until Djokovic starts beating their boy Rafa on the big stages...Then they will collectively start hating him and one particular Djokovic fan on this forum will have the time of his life! :)

Sentinel
05-26-2009, 04:37 AM
Now more than ever I hope Roger spanks both Djoko and Nadal and shut everyone's mouths. It probably won't happen, but one can hope.
As much as Djoko and Nadal are my favorite players after Federer, the way NF and others are behaving, I am beginning to hope so too.

Sentinel
05-26-2009, 04:41 AM
Its funny how some Nadal fans seem to like Djokovic more....that is until Djokovic starts beating their boy Rafa on the big stages...Then they will collectively start hating him and one particular Djokovic fan on this forum will have the time of his life! :)
You are right. After AO 08, Nadal fans collectively hate Tsonga *bitterly*, his game, his fist pumps, his dance, everything he does. Anyone who challenges or beats Nadal is arrogant, can't play, cheats etc etc.

And their "parents are nobodies (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=3464639&postcount=80)", lol. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=3464639&postcount=80

tennisplaya
05-26-2009, 04:42 AM
It confirms what most of us already knew but.

If the #1 authority on this topic says that Nole is better then its a fact. There can be no argument against it.

gj011
05-26-2009, 04:45 AM
Case closed.

What we've seen recently is that Djokovic prefers to play Rafa's kind of tennis. He plays Rafa's game. In Madrid, Federer simply didn't play into Rafa's hands. He went for winners. He mixed things up. He stepped hard around the backhand.

Maybe Rafa just thinks Djokovic plays a more classic baseline game on the surface, but the results show that Federer is clearly better on it. When Djokovic gets a win against either of this guys, wake up me.

Waking you up since you and all Fed fans arguing here conveniently forgot that Djokovic beat Federer in Rome this year. Case closed. Nadal is right.

Fed can prove Nadal wrong on the court, but I doubt that will happen.

thejoe
05-26-2009, 04:49 AM
Waking you up since you and the troll you quoted forgot that Djokovic beat Federer in Rome this year. Case closed. Nadal is right.

How many times has Djokovic beaten Nadal? Or a more favourable question: How many sets has Djokovic won against Nadal? How many clay court masters series tournaments did Djokovic win on clay this year? How many FO finals has Djokovic made? The list goes on...

Also, is 1 win in 13 against those two on clay really that impressive? Worth bragging about? Nah.

gj011
05-26-2009, 04:55 AM
How many times has Djokovic beaten Nadal? Or a more favourable question: How many sets has Djokovic won against Nadal? How many clay court masters series tournaments did Djokovic win on clay this year? How many FO finals has Djokovic made? The list goes on...

How many times Federer beat Djokovic on clay this year? FO finals are irrelevant since Djokovic was in Nadal's half last three years. Federer has never beaten rested and match ready Nadal on clay. Djokovic won MS on clay last year and was on two MS finals this year. The list goes on.

And don't complain of me mixing this years and last years results and picking what suits me, since you were doing the same.

tennisplaya
05-26-2009, 04:57 AM
http://blogs.townonline.com/cambridge/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/lol1.jpg

whats my cat doing here..:)

thejoe
05-26-2009, 04:58 AM
How many times Federer beat Djokovic on clay this year? FO finals are irrelevant since Djokovic was in Nadal's half last three years. Federer has never beaten rested and match ready Nadal on clay. Djokovic won MS on clay last year and was on two MS finals this year. The list goes on.

And don't complain of me mixing this years and last years results and picking what suits me, since you were doing the same.

Federer won one this year, and was in two finals last year. That's a better stat. It just is. Djokovic hasn't even beaten Nadal, be him rested or not. They aren't irrelevant. Novak still never even took a set of Nadal in any of those FO matches. What makes you think he would have beaten Federer?

gj011
05-26-2009, 04:58 AM
Also, is 1 win in 13 against those two on clay really that impressive? Worth bragging about? Nah.

It is not 1 in 13, your stats are wrong. And don't mix stats against Nadal to prove Federer is better than Djokovic, those are apples and oranges.

Djokovic beat Federer in their last meeting on clay.

Blue Drop
05-26-2009, 05:01 AM
If Djokovic sticks around, he's a threat, no doubt. But we have to consider the possibility, given his history, that he'll walk off. He's quit while behind during four grand slam tournaments, one for which he was the defending champion. So actually, I should revise my statement to read: Djokovic remains ahead, he's a threat, no doubt.

thejoe
05-26-2009, 05:03 AM
It is not 1 in 13, your stats are wrong. And don't mix stats against Nadal to prove Federer is better than Djokovic, those are apples and oranges.

Djokovic beat Federer in their last meeting on clay.

My apologies. 1 in 12. Really makes a huge difference.

Why not? Surely the ways in which they both perform against Nadal is relevant. Federer has performed better against the King of Clay than Djokovic. How are these irrelevant?

You think a 3 set Masters series match is conclusive evidence? Federer was in control of the match (up a set and a break) before he went AWOL. Don't expect him to go AWOL in a slam match. You'll have to hope he does, because Novak will need all the help he can get.

Solomon
05-26-2009, 05:05 AM
It is not 1 in 13, your stats are wrong. And don't mix stats against Nadal to prove Federer is better than Djokovic, those are apples and oranges.

Djokovic beat Federer in their last meeting on clay.

And Federer beat Nadal who beat Djokovic in their last meeting on clay ;)

gj011
05-26-2009, 05:07 AM
Federer won one this year, and was in two finals last year. That's a better stat. It just is. Djokovic hasn't even beaten Nadal, be him rested or not. They aren't irrelevant. Novak still never even took a set of Nadal in any of those FO matches. What makes you think he would have beaten Federer?

How is winning one this year and being in the 2 finals last year better than winning one last year and being in the 2 finals this year. :shock:

Also Djokovic would have been in more finals both last and this year if he was not in Nadal's half in half of the cases. Federer was of course never in Nadal's half, so it is much easier for him to make the final, when Djokovic and Nadal are in the other half.

Anyway, I will admit their stats are quite close on clay last two years, but I think Djokovic player better claycourt tennis both years so far.

The RG SF will ultimately decide who is better until next year, unless they both fail to make it.
Let's leave it at that.

jamesblakefan#1
05-26-2009, 05:10 AM
Djokovic quit against Fed last yr. He's a quitter. Federer never quits.

jelle v
05-26-2009, 05:11 AM
Also Djokovic would have been in more finals both last and this year if he was not in Nadal's half. Federer was of course never in Nadal's half, so it is much easier for him to make the final, when Djokovic and Nadal are in the other half.


Oh wow.. arguing in a hypothetical way and stating it as a fact.. :lol: You are such a TR011 :lol: Ow how your hate for Federer must run so deep..

gj011
05-26-2009, 05:12 AM
And Federer beat Nadal who beat Djokovic in their last meeting on clay ;)

And Djokovic beat Federer who beat Nadal who beat Djokovic in their last meeting on clay. :roll:

Another green troll.

thejoe
05-26-2009, 05:14 AM
How is winning one this year and being in the 2 finals last year better than winning one last year and being in the 2 finals this year. :shock:

Also Djokovic would have been in more finals both last and this year if he was not in Nadal's half. Federer was of course never in Nadal's half, so it is much easier for him to make the final, when Djokovic and Nadal are in the other half.

Anyway, I will admit their stats are quite close on clay last two years, but I think Djokovic player better claycourt tennis both years so far.

The RG SF will ultimately decide who is better until next year, unless they both fail to make it.
Let's leave it at that.

Why should I leave it? I'm still confused as to how Djokovic has been better both years. So this is your conclusion: Federer thus far has had an identical year to what Djokovic had last year. Even though this is the case (and Federer reached the FO final) Djokovic's clay court season last year was better? This year, Djokovic is where Federer was last year, and he is still doing better? Make your mind up...

You are just saying he would have been in more finals, but if he can't even take a set off of Nadal even once, what makes you think he would beat Federer? Honestly, I don't think Nole would have gotten past Federer.

I too, though, will readily admit that the semi this year will settle things.

Cesc Fabregas
05-26-2009, 05:25 AM
Nadal is in good position to see who is better as he has played them both numerous times and he is right Djoker is better on clay than Federer he has more consistant groundies and has is a better returner.

Gen
05-26-2009, 05:26 AM
Nadal speaks from his own perspective without getting into ancient history. To him it's the present that counts.

Djok won fewer matches on clay than Federer ... such a great argument ... shall I remind you that he is 6 years younger than Federer?

Last year matches of Djok vs Nadal (Hamburg and RG) were much more competitive than Federer's matches.

Djok's backhand is miles better than Federer's, it's more difficult for Nadal to deteriorate his game.

Speaking about Federer's tough mentality (which is better than Djok's): in Hamburg Nadal had a cramp in the 1st set, Federer got a 5:1 lead, and what? He lost that set 5:7.
Have you ever heard about such a score 6:1, 6:3, 6:0. If somebody has memory problems, it's Federer losing to Nadal in RG2008 final. Of course, all this proves that he is a mental GOAT.

Conclusion: Nadal knows better who is a more dangerous rival. For him. Not for TW keyboard wizards.

joeri888
05-26-2009, 05:28 AM
I might agree here with Rafa, though I'm not sure he actually said this, because it's not really something Rafa would say. he maybe right though. Roger won a tournament on the other hand, where Novak did not. It's close of course and we'll see in the semis of Roland Garros..

Gen
05-26-2009, 05:30 AM
but if he can't even take a set off of Nadal even once, what makes you think he would beat Federer? Honestly, I don't think Nole would have gotten past Federer.

I too, though, will readily admit that the semi this year will settle things.

Do you watch tennis? It's less than 2 months that he took a set off Nadal in Monte Carlo. It was the second set in the final. And he took a set in Hamburg last year.

thejoe
05-26-2009, 05:31 AM
Do you watch tennis? It's less than 2 months that he took a set off Nadal in Monte Carlo. It was the second set in the final. And he took a set in Hamburg last year.

Can you infer even the simplest of information? I was talking about the FO matches.

Gen
05-26-2009, 05:36 AM
Why should I leave it? I'm still confused as to how Djokovic has been better both years. So this is your conclusion: Federer thus far has had an identical year to what Djokovic had last year. Even though this is the case (and Federer reached the FO final) Djokovic's clay court season last year was better? This year, Djokovic is where Federer was last year, and he is still doing better? Make your mind up...

You are just saying he would have been in more finals, but if he can't even take a set off of Nadal even once, what makes you think he would beat Federer? Honestly, I don't think Nole would have gotten past Federer.

I too, though, will readily admit that the semi this year will settle things.

This is your post. Where is it written that you're speaking about RG only? It looks as if *******s are no good at both reading and writing.

gj011
05-26-2009, 05:37 AM
Why should I leave it? I'm still confused as to how Djokovic has been better both years. So this is your conclusion: Federer thus far has had an identical year to what Djokovic had last year. Even though this is the case (and Federer reached the FO final) Djokovic's clay court season last year was better? This year, Djokovic is where Federer was last year, and he is still doing better? Make your mind up...

You are just saying he would have been in more finals, but if he can't even take a set off of Nadal even once, what makes you think he would beat Federer? Honestly, I don't think Nole would have gotten past Federer.

I too, though, will readily admit that the semi this year will settle things.

He just did in Rome. It is amazing how Fed funs just ignore Feds defeats when it is convenient.

This is what I get trying to be nice. :roll:

I sad their stats are similar, but Djokovic played better claycourt tennis than Federer both years. What is not clear about that?

Solomon
05-26-2009, 05:37 AM
And Djokovic beat Federer who beat Nadal who beat Djokovic in their last meeting on clay. :roll:

Another green troll.

I was going by the most recent results.

I was posting my opinion and here you come with your personal attacks and insults, am I not allowed to post what I think?

gj011
05-26-2009, 05:41 AM
I was going by the most recent results.

I was posting my opinion and here you come with your personal attacks and insults, am I not allowed to post what I think?

I was going by most recent results too:

Djokovic beat Federer who beat Nadal who beat Djokovic.

Sorry but I don't appreciate when people with couple of posts and green nicknames, I never talked to before, come and attack me with nonsense posts while having discussion with someone else. It just looks suspicious.

And that last sentence of yours confirms you are a troll.

jamesblakefan#1
05-26-2009, 05:43 AM
^^^Yeah, because Legend obviously means you're the smartest one on here.

jamesblakefan#1
05-26-2009, 05:45 AM
Leave the new guy alone, he wasn't attacking you. Stop trying to pick fights.

egn
05-26-2009, 05:54 AM
How is winning one this year and being in the 2 finals last year better than winning one last year and being in the 2 finals this year. :shock:

Also Djokovic would have been in more finals both last and this year if he was not in Nadal's half in half of the cases. Federer was of course never in Nadal's half, so it is much easier for him to make the final, when Djokovic and Nadal are in the other half.

Anyway, I will admit their stats are quite close on clay last two years, but I think Djokovic player better claycourt tennis both years so far.

The RG SF will ultimately decide who is better until next year, unless they both fail to make it.
Let's leave it at that.

Huh last year for 2 of the 3 clay court master series he was on Roger's side.. same goes for this year...Should he be on Roger's side all 3 times? Besides 4/6 is not half. If you add in the French Open for the past two years it becomes 6/8. Going back to 2007, MC he was on Fed's side, Hamburg he was on Fed's side, Rome Nadal's side and RG nadal's side. So that makes him 8/12 on Fed's side. So in 2/3 of major clay tournaments he is on Fed's side of the draw care to argue the facts?

Solomon
05-26-2009, 05:59 AM
Leave the new guy alone, he wasn't attacking you. Stop trying to pick fights.

Thank you.

Gj, I have browsed these forums for a while before I made an account. You are one who I frequently find leaving provocative and posts of hate on threads, then when you are called on it you reply exactly how the last part of my post was made.

Let's leave it at that.

gj011
05-26-2009, 06:09 AM
Thank you.

Gj, I have browsed these forums for a while before I made an account. You are one who I frequently find leaving provocative and posts of hate on threads, then when you are called on it you reply exactly how the last part of my post was made.

Let's leave it at that.

LOL. You just proved to us you are old poster with new nickname. :rolleyes:

jamesblakefan#1
05-26-2009, 06:11 AM
Someday, you'll be an old poster with a new name. Oh how fun!

gj011
05-26-2009, 06:14 AM
Leave the new guy alone, he wasn't attacking you. Stop trying to pick fights.

And who are you to tell us what to do? Tou are the one who is trying to pick a fight now.

He is not a new guy anyway.

drakulie
05-26-2009, 06:17 AM
Who cares what Rafa thinks?? He just got smoked by Federer in Madrid.

Gen
05-26-2009, 06:19 AM
Huh last year for 2 of the 3 clay court master series he was on Roger's side.. same goes for this year...Should he be on Roger's side all 3 times? Besides 4/6 is not half. If you add in the French Open for the past two years it becomes 6/8. Going back to 2007, MC he was on Fed's side, Hamburg he was on Fed's side, Rome Nadal's side and RG nadal's side. So that makes him 8/12 on Fed's side. So in 2/3 of major clay tournaments he is on Fed's side of the draw care to argue the facts?

Nadal beat him in the semifinal in Hamburg. How come? He was seeded on Federer's side, then flew over to Nadal's?

gj011
05-26-2009, 06:19 AM
Huh last year for 2 of the 3 clay court master series he was on Roger's side.. same goes for this year...Should he be on Roger's side all 3 times? Besides 4/6 is not half. If you add in the French Open for the past two years it becomes 6/8. Going back to 2007, MC he was on Fed's side, Hamburg he was on Fed's side, Rome Nadal's side and RG nadal's side. So that makes him 8/12 on Fed's side. So in 2/3 of major clay tournaments he is on Fed's side of the draw care to argue the facts?

I didn't talk about 2007, and didn't say "half" literally.

Hamburg 2008, RG 2008, Madrid 2009 are tournaments where Djokovic would have more than very good chance to make the final if he was not in Nadal's half.
Federer was obviously never in Nadal's half and hence it is much easier for him to make the final on clay. That was my point and that is the fact.

Also you people don't know how to count.
2/4 in 2007 2/4 in 2008 3/4 in 2009 is 7/12.

Not 8/12.

Leonidas
05-26-2009, 06:48 AM
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/especiales/2009/05/roland_garros/consultorio/index.html

it's part of his Spanish blog. Maybe if someone is bothered they can translate some interesting bits. If not there's google translate.:)

5 .- Who do you think is better on the clay at the moment: Djokovic or Federer? Who do you prefer face in the finals? Tries to be politically incorrect and get wet .... Thank you very much
I think Djokovic. He won in Rome and Roger is the one that has achieved the best results of the two this season on the ground (a finalist in Monte Carlo and Rome champion in Belgrade). I look to the next match and not a hypothetical final. That, to me, is getting wet. The other is not realistic, believe me.
i read it the other day. He doesn´t say Djokovic is better than Federer on clay. He reckons that at this moment, this season, djokovic got better result so he´s on better form. Period

Cesc Fabregas
05-26-2009, 06:52 AM
Watching Novak now he seems to me to much better on clay than Federer at the moment.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 06:55 AM
I was going by the most recent results.

I was posting my opinion and here you come with your personal attacks and insults, am I not allowed to post what I think?

He is a troll buddy. Don't mind him. None of us do. :)

tennisplaya
05-26-2009, 06:56 AM
Who cares what Rafa thinks?? He just got smoked by Federer in Madrid.

Nadal was talking about who is better on the the real clay.

"To me, this tournament has nothing to do with Paris," Nadal said. "This tournament is practically another surface compared to Paris. The conditions favored him more than me."

drakulie
05-26-2009, 07:01 AM
Nadal was talking about who is better on the the real clay.




Oh, I see. He meant any surface he wins on is "real clay", but if he loses>>> it's fake. :roll:

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 07:01 AM
Watching Novak now he seems to me to much better on clay than Federer at the moment.

This I can understand. But saying that Djokovic is an overall better clayer is a pathetic statement. Plus, I'm not sure I agree that even at the moment Djoko is better on clay or any other surface. For Federer it's a mental issue than anything else. Did you watch the Rome match? Federer had complete control, he was leading by a set and a break, and then he went lalaland again. The same happened in Miami against Djokovic, AO against Nadal, and every Fed/Murray match lately.

The difference in Madrid was that Federer kept his focus throughout the match. He didn't let his game slip away. When he was leading he made sure he kept that lead, and that made the difference between the win and the loss.

If RG wasn't a slam, I'd think another Djoko/Fed meeting would have the same result - Fed winning 1st set, losing his mind in the 2nd and playing a horrible 3rd. However, RG IS a slam, and Federer always steps it up in a slam, so if Djokovic and Federer both play at their 100%, I think it'll be Federer who comes out on top.

aphex
05-26-2009, 07:08 AM
Who cares what Rafa thinks?? He just got smoked by Federer in Madrid.

do you mean THE NEW KING OF CLAY?

drakulie
05-26-2009, 07:10 AM
^^^Yes, thank you for reminding everyone. :)

gj011
05-26-2009, 07:13 AM
He is a troll buddy. Don't mind him. None of us do. :)

This troll "don't mind me" but all he does here is talk about me. LOL.

gj011
05-26-2009, 07:15 AM
This I can understand. But saying that Djokovic is an overall better clayer is a pathetic statement. Plus, I'm not sure I agree that even at the moment Djoko is better on clay or any other surface. For Federer it's a mental issue than anything else. Did you watch the Rome match? Federer had complete control, he was leading by a set and a break, and then he went lalaland again. The same happened in Miami against Djokovic, AO against Nadal, and every Fed/Murray match lately.

The difference in Madrid was that Federer kept his focus throughout the match. He didn't let his game slip away. When he was leading he made sure he kept that lead, and that made the difference between the win and the loss.

If RG wasn't a slam, I'd think another Djoko/Fed meeting would have the same result - Fed winning 1st set, losing his mind in the 2nd and playing a horrible 3rd. However, RG IS a slam, and Federer always steps it up in a slam, so if Djokovic and Federer both play at their 100%, I think it'll be Federer who comes out on top.

Typical Fed troll. Not giving any credits whatsoever for any of Fed's loses. Sure it was all Fed :roll:.

Dutch-Guy
05-26-2009, 07:35 AM
He could either dodge the question completely or give an honest answer. He's got a pretty good first-hand view too,having played Djokovic in Rome/Madrid/Monte Carlo.

jppc
05-26-2009, 07:40 AM
omg did someone even read the translation right? a flame war started for something rafa said and no one even quotes him?

He said "Esta temporada" that means THIS SEASON and i like federer and his smooth classic style but this season he hasnt been better than djokovic and that is fact, federer has played less as oposed to last season when he played a bunch of tourneys... please dont make arguments based on nothing.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 07:43 AM
He could either dodge the question completely or give an honest answer. He's got a pretty good first-hand view too,having played Djokovic in Rome/Madrid/Monte Carlo.

Seemed to me more like Nadal has taken the Madrid loss hard, and he feels the need to talk dirt on Federer (and yes, saying Djokovic is a better clayer is the same as talking dirt on Fed, considering both players' clay history). I like Nadal's peroanlity a lot, I really do, that's why I'm so disappointed by his statements.

What's next? Nadal saying Djokovic is a better grass player than Federer.

jppc
05-26-2009, 07:43 AM
oh btw the person asking rafa asked rafa to be politically incorrect and give an honest answer and i think that he did, demostrating it by results, he even said winning monte-carlo, barcelona, rome and getting to the finals in madrid is better and more difficult than winning roland garros, and i agree on that with him

gj011
05-26-2009, 07:45 AM
Seemed to me more like Nadal has taken the Madrid loss hard, and he feels the need to talk dirt on Federer (and yes, saying Djokovic is a better clayer is the same as talking dirt on Fed, considering both players' clay history). I like Nadal's peroanlity a lot, I really do, that's why I'm so disappointed by his statements.

What's next? Nadal saying Djokovic is a better grass player than Federer.

What a tool.

Djokovic is better than Federer on clay. Deal with it.

maximo
05-26-2009, 07:48 AM
I want to see a Murray V Djokovic on clay.

IMO, Murray would win as i think it would go to 5 sets and Djokovic is nowhere near as fit as Murray. Then again, i think the same with Federer.

And Djokovic is better than Federer.

vtmike
05-26-2009, 07:49 AM
I want to see a Murray V Djokovic on clay.

IMO, Murray would win as i think it would go to 5 sets and Djokovic is nowhere near as fit as Murray.

IMO Djokovic would finish off Murray in three or four sets...You are in Paris? Watching RG live?

sh@de
05-26-2009, 07:50 AM
Solomon, calm when talking to gj011. Logic doesn't work. Neither do flames. The best option is not to bother.

Aabye
05-26-2009, 07:53 AM
Seemed to me more like Nadal has taken the Madrid loss hard, and he feels the need to talk dirt on Federer (and yes, saying Djokovic is a better clayer is the same as talking dirt on Fed, considering both players' clay history). I like Nadal's peroanlity a lot, I really do, that's why I'm so disappointed by his statements.

What's next? Nadal saying Djokovic is a better grass player than Federer.

Now, now. You complain about trolls and then get on Nadal and his fans who make a reasonable argument for why a player who has gotten far in all of his claycourt tournaments this year is better than one who got far in one tournament: right now, it is very possible that Djokovic is the better claycourt player. Of course, by virtue of the fact that he is the only player to beat Nadal this year on clay, an argument could be made on behalf of Federer too. But neither is obvious.

Fortunately, the draw is set up so that these two will probably face each other and put an end to this argument one way or another.

mandy01
05-26-2009, 07:53 AM
I dont consider Roger better than Novak on clay at this moment becasue if you look at the overall performance,Djokovic did better than Roger and even beat him.But as of now,its pretty close between the two IMO.

maximo
05-26-2009, 07:53 AM
IMO Djokovic would finish off Murray in three or four sets...You are in Paris? Watching RG live?

Not if Murray plays his A-game he wont.

I went to RG yesterday, it rained so i abandoned going today aswell.

tennisplaya
05-26-2009, 07:56 AM
Oh, I see. He meant any surface he wins on is "real clay", but if he loses>>> it's fake. :roll:

That's right. I hope you didn't seriously think That fed would have had a chance if Madrid was played on real clay. ;) It's a different surface according to Nadal(the clay authority).

Stchamps
05-26-2009, 08:07 AM
do you mean THE NEW KING OF CLAY?

that's exactly what he meant

Aabye
05-26-2009, 08:07 AM
That's right. I hope you didn't seriously think That fed would have had a chance if Madrid was played on real clay. ;) It's a different surface according to Nadal(the clay authority).

You probably meant that sarcastically, but if Nadal isn't a clay authority, who is? I guess you too have four Coupe des Mousquetaires at your house, right?

Anyways, that match counts because it was at a MS and it was on clay. End of story. What, if anything, does that mean as far as RG? We shall see...

Aabye
05-26-2009, 08:23 AM
Why is that so hard for some *******s like vtmike and drakulie to get it. It must be hard for them to see clearly when their heads are stuck.

Mocking the blind is cruel:razz:

drakulie
05-26-2009, 08:28 AM
Why is that so hard for some *******s like vtmike and drakulie to get it. It must be hard for them to see clearly when their heads are stuck.

When Joker wins a clay title this year, and beats Nadal on clay then you could say he has equaled Fed's clay year. Until then, it's doo-doo.

By the way, Fed is 2-1 lifetime against joker on clay, and has made the FO finals 3 years in a row.

bolo
05-26-2009, 08:41 AM
Not that surprising, they are quite close at this point on clay. Could go either way imo.

Also it will be interesting to see if fed's drop off in intensity between GS is going to come back to affect him in slams versus djokovic, murray, and nadal. Djokovic already looks fitter than even earlier in the year so it will be very interesting to see how federer's fitness holds up if they enter a 5th set. I think fed. wants to coast into 15 but he's taking a big chance imo.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 09:00 AM
Now, now. You complain about trolls and then get on Nadal and his fans who make a reasonable argument for why a player who has gotten far in all of his claycourt tournaments this year is better than one who got far in one tournament: right now, it is very possible that Djokovic is the better claycourt player. Of course, by virtue of the fact that he is the only player to beat Nadal this year on clay, an argument could be made on behalf of Federer too. But neither is obvious.

Fortunately, the draw is set up so that these two will probably face each other and put an end to this argument one way or another.

I don't "get on" Nadal. I'm just disappointed by what he said. It sounds to me like bitterness than anything else. I usually defend Nadal when he's bashed. I think he has a great personality, is humble, and is a class act. This statement of his however, just screams "bitterness" to me.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 09:02 AM
I want to see a Murray V Djokovic on clay.

IMO, Murray would win as i think it would go to 5 sets and Djokovic is nowhere near as fit as Murray. Then again, i think the same with Federer.

And Djokovic is better than Federer.

I bet you'll even say Murray is better than Federer on clay. Don't be the gj011 of Murray. You're capable of much better.

gj011
05-26-2009, 09:58 AM
Sergiy Stakhovsky just beat Brian Dabul who beat Nadal.

So Stakhovsky is the best player on clay.

:roll:

gj011
05-26-2009, 09:59 AM
Not if Murray plays his A-game he wont.

I went to RG yesterday, it rained so i abandoned going today aswell.

Don't be P_Agony of Murray, you are much better than that.

gj011
05-26-2009, 10:00 AM
I bet you'll even say Murray is better than Federer on clay. Don't be the gj011 of Murray. You're capable of much better.

Why is this troll still talking about me when he supposedly don't read my posts. Unbelievable.

thejoe
05-26-2009, 10:03 AM
This is your post. Where is it written that you're speaking about RG only? It looks as if *******s are no good at both reading and writing.

Was I talking to you? Look at the post I quoted. It references the FO matches.

He just did in Rome. It is amazing how Fed funs just ignore Feds defeats when it is convenient.

This is what I get trying to be nice. :roll:

I sad their stats are similar, but Djokovic played better claycourt tennis than Federer both years. What is not clear about that?

I'm talking about the last 3 years at RG. One match where Federer implodes is not conclusive evidence. You can in no way draw the conclusion that he would got past Fed from 06-08. It is almost a certainty that he wouldn't have in 06 and 07.

Dutch-Guy
05-26-2009, 10:20 AM
Seemed to me more like Nadal has taken the Madrid loss hard, and he feels the need to talk dirt on Federer (and yes, saying Djokovic is a better clayer is the same as talking dirt on Fed, considering both players' clay history). I like Nadal's peroanlity a lot, I really do, that's why I'm so disappointed by his statements.

What's next? Nadal saying Djokovic is a better grass player than Federer.

He said:"Djokovic has been better than Fed THIS SEASON",once again THIS SEASON which is true.

Dutch-Guy
05-26-2009, 10:23 AM
Not if Murray plays his A-game he wont.


What is Murray's "A-game" on clay?

gj011
05-26-2009, 10:24 AM
He said:"Djokovic has been better than Fed THIS SEASON",once again THIS SEASON which is true.

Just don't bother with P_Agony. He is hopeless troll.

maximo
05-26-2009, 10:26 AM
What is Murray's "A-game" on clay?

When he played against Nadal and Davydenko in Monte-Carlo.

thejoe
05-26-2009, 10:30 AM
^Nadal yes, Davydenko no. If he plays the same way he did against the Russian, he'll get destroyed. He just left the ball short and Davy made errors.

maximo
05-26-2009, 10:33 AM
I bet you'll even say Murray is better than Federer on clay. Don't be the gj011 of Murray. You're capable of much better.

Murray easily beat Federer in abu dhabi and in Indian Wells, if he plays his best, he can easily do the same on clay.

Don't be P_Agony of Murray, you are much better than that.

I like Djokovic, but Murray rinsed him in Miami and Cincy. Again, if he plays his absolute best, i see no reason why he can't do the same on clay.

cknobman
05-26-2009, 10:35 AM
Anyone who claims Rogers win on clay agains Rafa was due to exhaustion is delusional.

The "he was tired argument" get thrown out of the window due to many instances of Nadal grinding through match after match only to keep on winning. Best example being Nadal playing a near 6 hour 5 set match against Verdasco at the AO and come back to beat Federer in another long 5 set match without running out of gas.

Its so nice to see everyone praise Nadal when he wins match after match no matter how much he plays without taking a break and then as soon as he loses blame it on being tired. Like he wasnt tired the previous 50 frackin matches in a row without a break.

In regards to this thread yes somewhat agree in regards to Djokovic. Djoker is tougher for Rafa on clay because he has a strong 2 handed backhand and Nadals simple strategy of hitting high bounces to the backhand dont work as effectively. But regardless of Nadals fitness if Roger is able to execute the high risk strategy he did a few weeks ago then Roger will be just as difficult on clay as well.

Dutch-Guy
05-26-2009, 10:37 AM
When he played against Nadal and in Monte-Carlo.

Nah.Nadal was kicking his *** until in the 8th game he had a black out.Murray sized upon that to force a tiebreak,which is still lost.

maximo
05-26-2009, 10:40 AM
Nah.Nadal was kicking his *** until in the 8th game he had a black out.Murray sized upon that to force a tiebreak,which is still lost.

Nadal did not have a black out, Murray raised his game.

That excuse is pathetic.

Nadal played much better against Murray than he did agaisnt Djokovic in the final, that is for sure.

BreakPoint
05-26-2009, 11:30 AM
Waking you up since you and all Fed fans arguing here conveniently forgot that Djokovic beat Federer in Rome this year. Case closed. Nadal is right.

Fed can prove Nadal wrong on the court, but I doubt that will happen.
I guess you missed the match. Federer had that match won in both the 2nd and in the 3rd sets before he mentally went into la-la land. Before that happened, he was outplaying Djokovic in the rest of the match. So Federer can outplay Djokovic again, as he's done before. On the big stage of RG, Federer won't mentally disappear.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 11:41 AM
I don't "get on" Nadal. I'm just disappointed by what he said. It sounds to me like bitterness than anything else. I usually defend Nadal when he's bashed. I think he has a great personality, is humble, and is a class act. This statement of his however, just screams "bitterness" to me.
What he said was very objective IMO. Nadal knows that the most relevant tournaments for RG are Monte-Carlo and Rome. Madrid: 1st edition ever, still had a lot of problems with the surface (bad bounces and layer of clay too thin)
Drastically different conditions from the slam on clay and also last tournament of the clay season before slam, best players don't produce their best then because they have already played a lot before. If you consider all other clay tournaments than Madrid, Djoko has done better. Actually Nadal agreed with me! I posted this before Rafa said anything:
- Djoko: 2 finals, 1 semi, 1 win
is better than:
- Fed: 0 final, 1 semi, 1 win.
Djoko was the most consistent this season and let's not forget Monte-Carlo is the closest tournament to RG.
I don't think there's anything shocking in Nadal's assessment. Also Djoko gave Nadal his toughest matches on clay this year. Sure Fed won the final in Madrid but Rafa didn't fight in that match. That was my impression and I'm sure he's the best person to evaluate how much he fought for that final. IMO not much.

ksbh
05-26-2009, 11:42 AM
Great post. That's why though it's possible that Nadal may have been tired from 2 consecutive days of playing, one cannot conclusively call it the decisive factor. It must be taken with a grain of salt.

Anyone who claims Rogers win on clay agains Rafa was due to exhaustion is delusional.

The "he was tired argument" get thrown out of the window due to many instances of Nadal grinding through match after match only to keep on winning. Best example being Nadal playing a near 6 hour 5 set match against Verdasco at the AO and come back to beat Federer in another long 5 set match without running out of gas.

Its so nice to see everyone praise Nadal when he wins match after match no matter how much he plays without taking a break and then as soon as he loses blame it on being tired. Like he wasnt tired the previous 50 frackin matches in a row without a break.

In regards to this thread yes somewhat agree in regards to Djokovic. Djoker is tougher for Rafa on clay because he has a strong 2 handed backhand and Nadals simple strategy of hitting high bounces to the backhand dont work as effectively. But regardless of Nadals fitness if Roger is able to execute the high risk strategy he did a few weeks ago then Roger will be just as difficult on clay as well.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 11:47 AM
Anyone who claims Rogers win on clay agains Rafa was due to exhaustion is delusional.

The "he was tired argument" get thrown out of the window due to many instances of Nadal grinding through match after match only to keep on winning. Best example being Nadal playing a near 6 hour 5 set match against Verdasco at the AO and come back to beat Federer in another long 5 set match without running out of gas.

Its so nice to see everyone praise Nadal when he wins match after match no matter how much he plays without taking a break and then as soon as he loses blame it on being tired. Like he wasnt tired the previous 50 frackin matches in a row without a break.

In regards to this thread yes somewhat agree in regards to Djokovic. Djoker is tougher for Rafa on clay because he has a strong 2 handed backhand and Nadals simple strategy of hitting high bounces to the backhand dont work as effectively. But regardless of Nadals fitness if Roger is able to execute the high risk strategy he did a few weeks ago then Roger will be just as difficult on clay as well.
Precisely, Nadal did not grind that Madrid final at all. Even less than Hamburg 2007. Do Fed fans never learn anything? If Nadal had even tried to grind that final out, the result would have been very different but it wasn't worth it, not just before RG. Maybe even not tanking the Djoko match was a mistake. Nadal still looked a little worn out in his RG first round. However, it was very lucky for Fed that it wasn't Djoko he faced in the Madrid final...

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 11:59 AM
He said:"Djokovic has been better than Fed THIS SEASON",once again THIS SEASON which is true.

It's still debatable. Federer did beat Nadal on clay this season. No matter how Nadal fans wants to ingore it, no matter how many excuses they'll bring up (anything from "he was tired" or "this was faster than a hard court") it did happen. True, part of the reason Nadal lost was maybe because of the reasons above (although let's be realistic - the SF was not 4 hours long, Nadal had more time to rest than Fed, and had a walkover too), but a part of it was Federer changing something in his game, implementing some new tactics.

So far I agree that in terms of points and results, Djoko had the better clay season than Federer. If Nadal meant to say Djoko is so far the better of the two in this season, then I was wrong and I appoligize. Like I said before, those tournys mean squat. Whoever reaches the RG final will be considered the 2nd best clayer of the season.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 12:00 PM
What he said was very objective IMO. Nadal knows that the most relevant tournaments for RG are Monte-Carlo and Rome. Madrid: 1st edition ever, still had a lot of problems with the surface (bad bounces and layer of clay too thin)
Drastically different conditions from the slam on clay and also last tournament of the clay season before slam, best players don't produce their best then because they have already played a lot before. If you consider all other clay tournaments than Madrid, Djoko has done better. Actually Nadal agreed with me! I posted this before Rafa said anything:
- Djoko: 2 finals, 1 semi, 1 win
is better than:
- Fed: 0 final, 1 semi, 1 win.
Djoko was the most consistent this season and let's not forget Monte-Carlo is the closest tournament to RG.
I don't think there's anything shocking in Nadal's assessment. Also Djoko gave Nadal his toughest matches on clay this year. Sure Fed won the final in Madrid but Rafa didn't fight in that match. That was my impression and I'm sure he's the best person to evaluate how much he fought for that final. IMO not much.

If Federer would have said Murray is better than Nadal on hard courts, even if that was true you'd be all over him.

babbette
05-26-2009, 12:01 PM
another quote from Rafa

8 .- Saludos Rafael, has it been damaging for you be a clay court player and have learned to be a player of all kinds of surfaces? ?

No, quite the opposite. I believe that the clay court player has a more complete tennis and can learn to play in other surfaces because has more technique. It is clear that also always it is difficult to improve in any surface.

Like the Americans that first learn to perfect hardcourt but find it difficult to transition to clay?:)

drakulie
05-26-2009, 12:08 PM
Precisely, Nadal did not grind that Madrid final at all.

hard to grind when you are having winners hit all over you.


If Nadal had even tried to grind that final out,

"IF" my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.


Nadal still looked a little worn out in his RG first round.

I see you are already making excuses in case rafa loses against his next opponent.

vtmike
05-26-2009, 12:10 PM
I see you are already making excuses in case rafa loses against his next opponent.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=263398 :rolleyes:

mandy01
05-26-2009, 12:23 PM
hard to grind when you are having winners hit all over you.




"IF" my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.




I see you are already making excuses in case rafa loses against his next opponent.
LOOOOOOOOOOOL Priceless :lol:

Dutch-Guy
05-26-2009, 12:26 PM
[QUOTE=P_Agony;3466052]It's still debatable. Federer did beat Nadal on clay this season. No matter how Nadal fans wants to ingore it, no matter how many excuses they'll bring up (anything from "he was tired" or "this was faster than a hard court") it did happen. True, part of the reason Nadal lost was maybe because of the reasons above (although let's be realistic - the SF was not 4 hours long, Nadal had more time to rest than Fed, and had a walkover too), but a part of it was Federer changing something in his game, implementing some new tactics.
Fed won fair and square.Nadal himself never came with the "tired,exhausted" excuse,unlike some of his fans.

So far I agree that in terms of points and results, Djoko had the better clay season than Federer. If Nadal meant to say Djoko is so far the better of the two in this season, then I was wrong and I appoligize. Like I said before, those tournys mean squat. Whoever reaches the RG final will be considered the 2nd best clayer of the season.
You can use google translate to translate what he said.He said that Nole was better than Fed on clay this season,which is true,given than the former has reached 3 finals and won 1 (Belgrade).

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 12:29 PM
If Federer would have said Murray is better than Nadal on hard courts, even if that was true you'd be all over him.
That would simply not be true because Nadal has won a slam on hard court and Murray has not. Murray has the potential to be the best on hard court though.
This season Fed has not demonstrated he was the 2nd best on clay. He may do so in RG but so far he has not.

bolo
05-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Precisely, Nadal did not grind that Madrid final at all. Even less than Hamburg 2007. Do Fed fans never learn anything? If Nadal had even tried to grind that final out, the result would have been very different but it wasn't worth it, not just before RG. Maybe even not tanking the Djoko match was a mistake. Nadal still looked a little worn out in his RG first round. However, it was very lucky for Fed that it wasn't Djoko he faced in the Madrid final...

he uses the 2 weeks to basically recharge. Deliver a spanking in 2 hrs, get a day and 1/2 off, deliver a spanking in 2 hrs get a day and 1/2 off....and so on. Should be in great shape for the SF and F imo.

IvanAndreevich
05-26-2009, 12:38 PM
Precisely, Nadal did not grind that Madrid final at all. Even less than Hamburg 2007. Do Fed fans never learn anything? If Nadal had even tried to grind that final out, the result would have been very different but it wasn't worth it, not just before RG. Maybe even not tanking the Djoko match was a mistake. Nadal still looked a little worn out in his RG first round. However, it was very lucky for Fed that it wasn't Djoko he faced in the Madrid final...

You are just so clueless about the level of effort athletes put into PRACTICE, aren't you? They train harder than they play. I saw Nadal practice for 3 hours non-stop ON THE COURT at Indian Wells 2009. That doesn't include stuff he was doing off court.

How could you think that someone as fit as Nadal would be physically tired from a match a WEEK ago? He was probably on the practice courts for 3 hours every day for that last week. In addition, he was in the gym doing weights and probably plyometrics and maybe even separate cardio.

Incredible level of ignorance IMO.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 12:44 PM
he uses the 2 weeks to basically recharge. Deliver a spanking in 2 hrs, get a day and 1/2 off, deliver a spanking in 2 hrs get a day and 1/2 off....and so on. Should be in great shape for the SF and F imo.
Yes the pace is less intense in slams than in masters, there is more recovery time. Hopefully he'll be fine but his draw is tough. (I don't think it will be a walk in the park to play Ferrer and Verdasco back to back).

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 12:46 PM
You are just so clueless about the level of effort athletes put into PRACTICE, aren't you? They train harder than they play. I saw Nadal practice for 3 hours non-stop ON THE COURT at Indian Wells 2009. That doesn't include stuff he was doing off court.

How could you think that someone as fit as Nadal would be physically tired from a match a WEEK ago? He was probably on the practice courts for 3 hours every day for that last week. In addition, he was in the gym doing weights and probably plyometrics and maybe even separate cardio.

Incredible level of ignorance IMO.
He was mentally tired but anyway training (no matter how hard) has nothing to do with the efforts you need to put in competition. You can't compare the 2.

drakulie
05-26-2009, 12:46 PM
You are just so clueless about the level of effort athletes put into PRACTICE, aren't you? They train harder than they play. I saw Nadal practice for 3 hours non-stop ON THE COURT at Indian Wells 2009. That doesn't include stuff he was doing off court.

How could you think that someone as fit as Nadal would be physically tired from a match a WEEK ago? He was probably on the practice courts for 3 hours every day for that last week. In addition, he was in the gym doing weights and probably plyometrics and maybe even separate cardio.

Incredible level of ignorance IMO.


Agreed. I've seen him the last few years on the practice courts at the Sony Miami. I've said it before>>> *** I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYONE PRACTICE AS HARD OR INTENSELY AS THIS GUY*** It's abolsuetly scary how hard he practices. One looking could only feel like his body is about to break in two pieces. Not only that, but he practies longer than anyone else I saw. Over two hours.

drakulie
05-26-2009, 12:49 PM
He was mentally tired but anyway training (no matter how hard) has nothing to do with the efforts you need to put in competition. You can't compare the 2.


training is **A LOT** tougher on you physically than playing a match, MOMO.

When you train/drill you don't stop after "every point", or "every game". You begin drilling the moment immediately after the ball hits the net or goes off the court. There is no recovery time like in a match. You do this hundreds of times, over, and over, and over. And these drilling of shots does not last two-three shots, They hit each one 20-30 times, then do it immediately again. Over and Over, while going full out.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 12:50 PM
That would simply not be true because Nadal has won a slam on hard court and Murray has not. Murray has the potential to be the best on hard court though.
This season Fed has not demonstrated he was the 2nd best on clay. He may do so in RG but so far he has not.

I clearly said if that was true.

It was just an example, not the point. The point was that you would bash Federer for saying stuff like Nadal did. Heck, you attack Federer for anything he ever said.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 12:52 PM
[QUOTE]
Fed won fair and square.Nadal himself never came with the "tired,exhausted" excuse,unlike some of his fans.


You can use google translate to translate what he said.He said that Nole was better than Fed on clay this season,which is true,given than the former has reached 3 finals and won 1 (Belgrade).

I did actually, but I translated it to my language, and it did not say "this season". But if you say so I believe you, and again I say I appoligize, because the difference between "this season" and "overall" is huge.

bolo
05-26-2009, 12:56 PM
Yes the pace is less intense in slams than in masters, there is more recovery time. Hopefully he'll be fine but his draw is tough. (I don't think it will be a walk in the park to play Ferrer and Verdasco back to back).

could be difficult, ferrer tries to be extra aggressive when he plays nadal and verdasco just naturally beats up on nadal. Hopefully ferrer pays the price for his aggressiveness on clay and nadal gets through that one fast.

IvanAndreevich
05-26-2009, 12:59 PM
He was mentally tired but anyway training (no matter how hard) has nothing to do with the efforts you need to put in competition. You can't compare the 2.

What kind of experience is this statement based on?

Heavy training = you will be 100% exhausted at the end of the day and get 10 hours of sleep. Match = not likely even close to the same level of effort.

Now you are saying he is mentally tired rather than physically? After a week?

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 01:03 PM
I clearly said if that was true.

It was just an example, not the point. The point was that you would bash Federer for saying stuff like Nadal did. Heck, you attack Federer for anything he ever said.
Why? I agree that Djoko was the second best on clay this season and I don't understand what's polemical about it.

Dutch-Guy
05-26-2009, 01:04 PM
I did actually, but I translated it to my language, and it did not say "this season". But if you say so I believe you, and again I say I appoligize, because the difference between "this season" and "overall" is huge.

Ok here we go:

The text in Spanish:

¿Quién crees que se encuentra mejor en tierra en este momento: Djokovic o Federer? ¿A cuál prefieres enfrentarte en la final? Intenta ser políticamente incorrecto y mojarte.... Muchas gracias
Creo que Djokovic. Le ha ganado a Roger en Roma y es el que ha conseguido mejores resultados de los dos esta temporada en tierra (finalista en Montecarlo y Roma, campeón en Belgrado). Yo miro al siguiente partido y no a una hipotética final. Eso, para mí, es mojarme. Lo otro es no ser realista, creeme.

Google translation:

Who do you think is better on the ground at the moment: Djokovic or Federer? Do you prefer face in the finals? Tries to be politically incorrect and get wet .... Thank you very much
I think Djokovic. He won in Rome and Roger is the one that has achieved the best results of the two this season on the ground (a finalist in Monte Carlo and Rome champion in Belgrade). I look to the next match and not a hypothetical final. That, to me, is get wet. The other is not realistic, believe me.

Convinced now?

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 01:05 PM
What kind of experience is this statement based on?

Heavy training = you will be 100% exhausted at the end of the day and get 10 hours of sleep. Match = not likely even close to the same level of effort.

Now you are saying he is mentally tired rather than physically? After a week?
After a week ? No. After winning 3 tournaments on clay in 3 weeks and making his 7th final of the year. Comparatively, Federer was making his second final of the year and had won 0. You are proposing to tell me that Fed wasn't fresher than Nadal on all levels? I can't take that claim seriously, sorry.

IvanAndreevich
05-26-2009, 01:10 PM
After a week ? No. After winning 3 tournaments on clay in 3 weeks and making his 7th final of the year. Comparatively, Federer was making his second final of the year and had won 0. You are proposing to tell me that Fed wasn't fresher than Nadal on all levels? I can't take that claim seriously, sorry.

I am not talking about the Federer match. I am talking about now, a week after.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 01:12 PM
I am not talking about the Federer match. I am talking about now, a week after.
Ah sorry. Well it's obvious he would have needed a longer break after Madrid. I always felt it was a mistake for him to play Madrid, but a master in spain, it couldn't be helped.

cknobman
05-26-2009, 01:14 PM
After a week ? No. After winning 3 tournaments on clay in 3 weeks and making his 7th final of the year. Comparatively, Federer was making his second final of the year and had won 0. You are proposing to tell me that Fed wasn't fresher than Nadal on all levels? I can't take that claim seriously, sorry.

Sure Fed was fresher than Nadal but your claims of Nadal tanking the match are a insult Rafa which is quite baffling considering hes your favorite player.

To insinuate that Nadal would "tank" any match much less a final and much less a master series final is a knock on his character and heart. We all know that Nadal gives more of himself in every match he plays than 99.99% of the tour. But even if Nadal gives his all there will always be days where giving it his all wont be enough(and there are thousands of reasons why that might be).

Point being is you want to discredit or put down anything Fed does so badly that you are willing to discredit your own favorite player in order to try and make your argument sound. Quite sad.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 01:16 PM
Sure Fed was fresher than Nadal but your claims of Nadal tanking the match are a insult Rafa which is quite baffling considering hes your favorite player.

To insinuate that Nadal would "tank" any match much less a final and much less a master series final is a knock on his character and heart. We all know that Nadal gives more of himself in every match he plays than 99.99% of the tour. But even if Nadal gives his all there will always be days where giving it his all wont be enough(and there are thousands of reasons why that might be).

Point being is you want to discredit or put down anything Fed does so badly that you are willing to discredit your own favorite player in order to try and make your argument sound. Quite sad.

I don't think it's intentional, she just doesn't have completely coherent thoughts.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 01:32 PM
Ok here we go:

The text in Spanish:



Google translation:



Convinced now?

Still a lousy translation, but I didn't need it. I already said I believe you and I have already appoligized for not understanding the interview correctly.

Mansewerz
05-26-2009, 01:35 PM
Very well said Rafa. We know how easy Federer is when your 100%. Getting through Djokovic is exhausting however.

Wow, very ignorant. How easy he is? Federer played like utter crap at FO 2008.


Though I agree that Djoker is tougher on clay atm, especially for Rafa (they match up well w/ each other).

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 01:38 PM
Why? I agree that Djoko was the second best on clay this season and I don't understand what's polemical about it.

That's not the point.

Let's say that in a different world Murray is #3, Nadal is #2 and Fed is #1, and Fed gives an interview saying Murray is a better hard court player than Nadal, despite Nadal being a dominat force on hard courts for 4 years, second only to Federer.

In a case such as the above, you'd attack and bash Federer for ever saying that. But Nadal saying stuff like that is OK because he is Nadal.

Another example:

When Federer losses and claims he didn't play well - you (among others) say he's arrogant, a sore loser who can't credit the guy who just spanked him.

When Nadal losses and claims he didn't play well - you say it's the truth, and you're using every bit of what he said as an excuse for his loss.

I remember plenty of times when I said Federer should just shut his mouth and stop talking. But when Nadal says stuff he shouldn't, you always justify it (an example would be not giving any credit to Delpo in Miami).

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 01:41 PM
Sure Fed was fresher than Nadal but your claims of Nadal tanking the match are a insult Rafa which is quite baffling considering hes your favorite player.

To insinuate that Nadal would "tank" any match much less a final and much less a master series final is a knock on his character and heart. We all know that Nadal gives more of himself in every match he plays than 99.99% of the tour. But even if Nadal gives his all there will always be days where giving it his all wont be enough(and there are thousands of reasons why that might be).

Point being is you want to discredit or put down anything Fed does so badly that you are willing to discredit your own favorite player in order to try and make your argument sound. Quite sad.
I didn't say Nadal tanked the match. He never does! I said he didn't grind it or fight for it as much as he could have. That's different.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 01:44 PM
That's not the point.

Let's say that in a different world Murray is #3, Nadal is #2 and Fed is #1, and Fed gives an interview saying Murray is a better hard court player than Nadal, despite Nadal being a dominat force on hard courts for 4 years, second only to Federer.

In a case such as the above, you'd attack and bash Federer for ever saying that. But Nadal saying stuff like that is OK because he is Nadal.

Another example:

When Federer losses and claims he didn't play well - you (among others) say he's arrogant, a sore loser who can't credit the guy who just spanked him.

When Nadal losses and claims he didn't play well - you say it's the truth, and you're using every bit of what he said as an excuse for his loss.

I remember plenty of times when I said Federer should just shut his mouth and stop talking. But when Nadal says stuff he shouldn't, you always justify it (an example would be not giving any credit to Delpo in Miami).
I think Nadal should say what is true and that Djoko was his most persistent rival on clay this season was certainly true. It's not an affront to Fed, it's just a fact.
What Fed should not say is derogatory things about players that are not even fair to them (like the stuff he said about Novak at AO). What Nadal said though was neither derogatory nor unfair.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 01:46 PM
I didn't say Nadal tanked the match. He never does! I said he didn't grind it or fight for it as much as he could have. That's different.

That's exactly what I mean:

When Fed fans say Fed had a bad back in the AO 2009 match, and didn't serve like he normally does, you say it was just Nadal playing very well, and Fed fans should stop making excuses and start giving credit, and Federer is a crybaby.

But Nadal not playing his best in the Madrid final is "simply the truth". Not an excuse, just the truth.

I've yet to see a drop of credit for Federer for bringing something new to the table in that Madrid final (and let's face it, Federer didn't play his 60% game in that final either).

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 01:47 PM
I think Nadal should say what is true and that Djoko was his most persistent rival on clay this season was certainly true. It's not an affront to Fed, it's just a fact.
What Fed should not say is derogatory things about players that are not even fair to them (like the stuff he said about Novak at AO). What Nadal said though was neither derogatory nor unfair.

Funny, I recall what Fed said about Novak at the AO also being a fact.

thejoe
05-26-2009, 01:49 PM
Funny, I recall what Fed said about Novak at the AO also being a fact.

You're fighting a losing battle here. You're wasting you're breath, unfortunately.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 01:51 PM
You're fighting a losing battle here. You're wasting you're breath, unfortunately.

Sorry, it just kills me the "Everything Nadal says is perfect, and everything Fed says is arrogant" approach. I'm truly sick of it.

Federer and Nadal can say the same darn thing and people will react in a completely different fashion, despite the statements being exactly the same.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 01:52 PM
That's exactly what I mean:

When Fed fans say Fed had a bad back in the AO 2009 match, and didn't serve like he normally does, you say it was just Nadal playing very well, and Fed fans should stop making excuses and start giving credit, and Federer is a crybaby.

But Nadal not playing his best in the Madrid final is "simply the truth". Not an excuse, just the truth.

I've yet to see a drop of credit for Federer for bringing something new to the table in that Madrid final (and let's face it, Federer didn't play his 60% game in that final either).
Federer deserves all the credit for winning that particular final but you can't erase all the circumstances around that win either. If Fed had made another final on clay or even won another tournament, we wouldn't be having that kind of discussions. The reservations stem from the fact that's the only thing he's won and that's why the circumstances surrounding the victory are a little bit more in the foreground. No doubt a win at RG would eliminate them for good! But until then...

papucla10
05-26-2009, 01:55 PM
I'm not saying it's Fed fault Nadal played tired. I'm saying I don't put a lot of stock in that result because of the circumstances.

There will always be excuses from Nadtars as well as from *******s when their heroes are defeated, that is the true, fans can't accept when their favorite stars losing, the players themselves are more humble when losing that their own fans.

oneleggedcardinal
05-26-2009, 01:55 PM
Sorry, it just kills me the "Everything Nadal says is perfect, and everything Fed says is arrogant" approach. I'm truly sick of it.

Federer and Nadal can say the same darn thing and people will react in a completely different fashion, despite the statements being exactly the same.

Got frustration?:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i14/AUBURN_MYSTIQUE/Frustration.jpg

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 01:57 PM
Federer deserves all the credit for winning that particular final but you can't erase all the circumstances around that win either. If Fed had made another final on clay or even won another tournament, we wouldn't be having that kind of discussions. The reservations stem from the fact that's the only thing he's won and that's why the circumstances surrounding the victory are a little bit more in the foreground. No doubt a win at RG would eliminate them for good! But until then...

Fine, then Nadal deserves all the credit for winning the AO, but you "can't erase all the circumstances around that win either". Federer had a bad back and served like crap in the whole match.

Point is - there are NO excuses. A win is a win. I believe it was Rod Laver who said that if you go into court, you can play and there are no excuses.

As for the Djoko/Fed issue - let's just wait to the semis, shall we? A final in RG is much bigger than any MS final/title IMO. The person who wins RG will be the best clayer of the season. The person who reaches the final will be the second.

papucla10
05-26-2009, 01:57 PM
Nadal played like his 65% and Federer his 70%

maximo
05-26-2009, 02:00 PM
Sorry, it just kills me.


Funny, Fed said the exact same thing right after his loss against Nadal in the Final of the AO.

Here's the clip, go on 0:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEpNuRDLpyg

bruce38
05-26-2009, 02:05 PM
Funny, Fed said the exact same thing right after his loss against Nadal in the Final of the AO.

Well not the exact same thing, but close.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:06 PM
Funny, Fed said the exact same thing right after his loss against Nadal in the Final of the AO.

Here's the clip, go on 0:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEpNuRDLpyg

And your point is...?:-|

maximo
05-26-2009, 02:08 PM
And your point is...?:-|

It's just a coincadence, when a Fed fan is fighting for his idol he uses the same words which Federer used.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:11 PM
It's just a coincadence, when a Fed fan is fighting for his idol he uses the same words which Federer used.

Well, he didn't say the same thing but it was close :)

I'm not fighting for Fed here, but rather a point I'm trying to make.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:13 PM
Funny, I recall what Fed said about Novak at the AO also being a fact.
Fed at the AO said it was expected that Novak would retire. That was certainly not a fact, it was a gratuitous attack.

maximo
05-26-2009, 02:14 PM
Well, he didn't say the same thing but it was close :)

I'm not fighting for Fed here, but rather a point I'm trying to make.

I guess we all get very passionate with the ones we really care about. ;)

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:14 PM
Fed at the AO said it was expected that Novak would retire. That was certainly not a fact, it was a gratuitous attack.

Wasn't it a fact? Novak DID retire the match.

grafselesfan
05-26-2009, 02:15 PM
Good grief some of you are pathetic. You seem to care about the lives and wins or losses of Federer and Rafa more than Federer and Rafa themselves.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:15 PM
I guess we all get very passionate with the ones we really care about. ;)

Yeah, sometimes a bit too much I'd say.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:20 PM
Wasn't it a fact? Novak DID retire the match.
What wasn't a fact is the implication that Novak always retires and that it is due to a lack of fitness (it's not, it's due to a medical condition). Actually there's a perfect word for what Fed said: slander. And mind you that was just one example among others, it's not like Fed rarely does it.

fedtastic
05-26-2009, 02:22 PM
Fed at the AO said it was expected that Novak would retire. That was certainly not a fact, it was a gratuitous attack.

What Fed said was right. I would certainly expect Djokovic to retire if the conditions are extremely difficult, in sweltering heat and humidity which was the case on that day at AO. Given Djokovic's breathing problems, it is the right thing to expect. What is so wrong with Fed's statement? It's not Djokovic's fault that he has breathing problems.
You can take statements and twist them the way want and interpret them the way you want but what Fed said was right.

mandy01
05-26-2009, 02:23 PM
What wasn't a fact is the implication that Novak always retires and that it is due to a lack of fitness (it's not, it's due to a medical condition). Actually there's a perfect word for what Fed said: slander. And mind you that was just one example among others, it's not like Fed rarely does it. Here we go... :lol:

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:23 PM
What wasn't a fact is the implication that Novak always retires and that it is due to a lack of fitness (it's not, it's due to a medical condition). Actually there's a perfect word for what Fed said: slander. And mind you that was just one example among others, it's not like Fed rarely does it.

The reason doesn't matter. Djokovic is a serial quitter and it's a fact. Federer's statement was a fact. Maybe it actually helped Djoko in the long run.

maximo
05-26-2009, 02:24 PM
I believe Djokovic does Yoga to sort out his breathing problem.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:25 PM
You want to see a dirty talk example? Well how about this after the AO 2008:

"The king is dead. Long live the king".

Just imagine how a sick Federer would feel after such a statement. That comment was ugliness at its best.

This is why I will never root for Djokovic, no matter how pretty his game may be.

drakulie
05-26-2009, 02:26 PM
After a week ? No. After winning 3 tournaments on clay in 3 weeks and making his 7th final of the year. Comparatively, Federer was making his second final of the year and had won 0. You are proposing to tell me that Fed wasn't fresher than Nadal on all levels? I can't take that claim seriously, sorry.

3 weeks???? That's all???Next time you compare him to Fed, please come back with more than 3 weeks

Since 2003:


237 straight weeks at #1,
10 consecutive grand slam final appearances,
19 semi final appeaances,
96 matches in 2003
81 matches in 2004
85 matches in 2005
97 matches in 2006
78 matches in 2007
83 matches in 2008Nadal is tired after 3 weeks?

Hater!

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:27 PM
What Fed said was right. I would certainly expect Djokovic to retire if the conditions are extremely difficult, in sweltering heat and humidity which was the case on that day at AO. Given Djokovic's breathing problems, it is the right thing to expect. What is so wrong with Fed's statement? It's not Djokovic's fault that he has breathing problems.
You can take statements and twist them the way want and interpret them the way you want but what Fed said was right.
I didn't twist anything. You are. Fed's original statement was NOT made in a spirit of compassion. it was an unwelcome cheap shot at a guy who had gone through tough matches and tough conditions numerous times before (the Olympics come to mind) and would do so numerous times afterwards (Madrid for instance) and did not deserve to be spurned that way.

fedtastic
05-26-2009, 02:27 PM
What Nadal said is his opinion and he has very good reason for saying Djokovic is better than Federer on clay. Djokovic won the serbian open and reached the Monte carlo and rome finals and lost to nadal in the semi final of madrid. Djokovic is better so far this season than Federer on clay but if Federer beats Djokovic in the Semi, Federer will be moving ahead of Djoker. At the moment Nadal is correct so why are poeple arguing against him. We will see who is better on clay after Rolandn Garros. Let's wait and see.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:28 PM
You want to see a dirty talk example? Well how about this after the AO 2008:

"The king is dead. Long live the king".

Just imagine how a sick Federer would feel after such a statement. That comment was ugliness at its best.

This is why I will never root for Djokovic, no matter how pretty his game may be.
It wasn't uttered by Novak though.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:29 PM
It wasn't uttered by Novak though.

Still Novak's problem though. He should control what his parents say just like Fed control what Mirka says (or doesn't say).

mandy01
05-26-2009, 02:29 PM
I didn't twist anything. You are. Fed's original statement was NOT made in a spirit of compassion. it was an unwelcome cheap shot at a guy who had gone through tough matches and tough conditions numerous times before (the Olympics come to mind) and would do so numerous times afterwards (Madrid for instance) and did not deserve to be spurned that way.
Hahahahaha :lol: crapola at its best :lol: :mrgreen:
Roger was asked what he thought since it was definitely not Novak's first time of retiring and what he gave was a brutally honest answer.Take it or leave it.Djokovic said he could go back on the court and he was feeling better in his presser when he was on court not a long time ago.Nothing against Novak but the match could've been finished.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:30 PM
What Nadal said is his opinion and he has very good reason for saying Djokovic is better than Federer on clay. Djokovic won the serbian open and reached the Monte carlo and rome finals and lost to nadal in the semi final of madrid. Djokovic is better so far this season than Federer on clay but if Federer beats Djokovic in the Semi, Federer will be moving ahead of Djoker. At the moment Nadal is correct so why are poeple arguing against him. We will see who is better on clay after Rolandn Garros. Let's wait and see.

Some of us thought Nadal didn't mean this season but overall career-wise, which would have not only been false, but also hypocrite from him. Thankfully he meant this season.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 02:33 PM
I guess we all get very passionate with the ones we really care about. ;)

Why do we care so much? It's kind of stupid when you think about it.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:35 PM
Why do we care so much? It's kind of stupid when you think about it.

Well, for me it's one level up from constand console wars discussions (a Nintendo fan here, the Federer of video games). :)

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:35 PM
The reason doesn't matter. Djokovic is a serial quitter and it's a fact. Federer's statement was a fact. Maybe it actually helped Djoko in the long run.
No, Djoko is a serial quitter is not a fact, it's a slanderous accusation. How often has he retired since the AO? How often did he retire in 2008 after Monte-Carlo? not even once. This is trying to give Djoko a bad name and frankly coming from a fellow player, it's ugly.

fedtastic
05-26-2009, 02:35 PM
Some of us thought Nadal didn't mean this season but overall career-wise, which would have not only been false, but also hypocrite from him. Thankfully he meant this season.

Rafa is a great guy although he can do somethings during the match which I don't like. I have no reason to doubt what he says about Federer being one of the greatest in history. Nadal has no reason to put down Federer like that. They both respect each very much. Some Nadatards and *******s behave like there is a war going on but the reality is very different. Look at them after their matches and the way they congratulate and compliment each other. I have respect for both of them. Media can be very *****y sometimes and blow things out of proportions just to create a hype and publicity and sell more papers. True fans should realize this by now.

mandy01
05-26-2009, 02:37 PM
No, Djoko is a serial quitter is not a fact, it's a slanderous accusation. How often has he retired since the AO? How often did he retire in 2008 after Monte-Carlo? not even once. This is trying to give Djoko a bad name and frankly coming from a fellow player, it's ugly.

And your post is bull because Roger never called Djokovic a serial quitter.

mandy01
05-26-2009, 02:37 PM
Rafa is a great guy although he can do somethings during the match which I don't like. I have no reason to doubt what he says about Federer being one of the greatest in history. Nadal has no reason to put down Federer like that. They both respect each very much. Some Nadatards and *******s behave like there is a war going on but the reality is very different. Look at them after their matches and the way they congratulate and compliment each other. I have respect for both of them. Media can be very *****y sometimes and blow things out of proportions just to create a hype and publicity and sell more papers. True fans should realize this by now.
Well said indeed.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:38 PM
Hahahahaha :lol: crapola at its best :lol: :mrgreen:
Roger was asked what he thought since it was definitely not Novak's first time of retiring and what he gave was a brutally honest answer.Take it or leave it.Djokovic said he could go back on the court and he was feeling better in his presser when he was on court not a long time ago.Nothing against Novak but the match could've been finished.
Not only brutal but cruel and contemptuous as well, + Fed can talk! He played AO 2008 while being sick (according to himself) and TMC 2008 with a bad back. Take it or leave it, sure.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:39 PM
No, Djoko is a serial quitter is not a fact, it's a slanderous accusation. How often has he retired since the AO? How often did he retire in 2008 after Monte-Carlo? not even once. This is trying to give Djoko a bad name and frankly coming from a fellow player, it's ugly.

Once a year is already too much. Twice a year is unbelievable.

Djoko is a serial quitter compared to other players. I have yet to see Federer quit a match in the middle of it - that's called great sportsmanship. Even at the 2008 TMC agaisnt Murray Fed was clearly in pain yet he kept giving the fans what the paid for - a good (great) match.

mandy01
05-26-2009, 02:41 PM
Not only brutal but cruel and contemptuous as well, + Fed can talk! He played AO 2008 while being sick (according to himself) and TMC 2008 with a bad back. Take it or leave it, sure.right...and you keep talking about how tired and injured Nadal is.Pathetic.
Yes,cruel and contemptous according to you.Of course you only read the first sentence of my post and wrote more crap which is very funny :lol:

And yes,that Roger played and how hard he worked off court to be able to play is another of the many reasons that makes me his fan.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 02:43 PM
Not only brutal but cruel and contemptuous as well, + Fed can talk! He played AO 2008 while being sick (according to himself) and TMC 2008 with a bad back. Take it or leave it, sure.

Isn't that the point? Roger played despite. Novak wouldn't have. Therein lies the distinction between the two.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:44 PM
Still Novak's problem though. He should control what his parents say just like Fed control what Mirka says (or doesn't say).
How do your control your parents? You control yours? Congratulations. This wasn't said in a post match press conf either.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:47 PM
How do your control your parents? You control yours? Congratulations. This wasn't said in a post match press conf either.

If I were an important figure watched on TV like Novak, then yes, I would control my parents. Saying something like that says a lot about their son too, and about what kind of people they are. Imagine what it's like to hear you career is over after one of the toughest losses in your lives, and when you're sick. When Fed plays Djokovic, I root for Fed not only because he's my favorite player, but because I always feel like he needs to get revenge on Novak.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:47 PM
Isn't that the point? Roger played despite. Novak wouldn't have. Therein lies the distinction between the two.
Novak did numerous times. The difference is that one trash talks when he shouldn't but that's OK, I'm sure Novak enjoyed his wins over Fed even more after that.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 02:49 PM
Novak did numerous times. The difference is that one trash talks when he shouldn't but that's OK, I'm sure Novak enjoyed his wins over Fed even more after that.

Well sure, what else can a one major wonder do? :) I hardly see it as trash talking, but even if you do interpret it as such, whose to say he "shouldn't"???

Serve_Ace
05-26-2009, 02:49 PM
3 weeks???? That's all???Next time you compare him to Fed, please come back with more than 3 weeks

Since 2003:


237 straight weeks at #1,
10 consecutive grand slam final appearances,
19 semi final appeaances,
96 matches in 2003
81 matches in 2004
85 matches in 2005
97 matches in 2006
78 matches in 2007
83 matches in 2008Nadal is tired after 3 weeks?

Hater!

Good stats, Nadal, is the most out of shape athelete ever

mandy01
05-26-2009, 02:50 PM
Novak did numerous times. The difference is that one trash talks when he shouldn't but that's OK, I'm sure Novak enjoyed his wins over Fed even more after that.LOOOOOOOOOL When did Fed trash talk? He just said it wasnt the first time and that of course he wasnt expecting it at the beginning but Roddick too could've pushed Novak to it.
You just add your interpretations then go around calling others hypocites when what you do is pretty much the same.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:52 PM
LOOOOOOOOOL When did Fed trash talk? He just said it wasnt the first time and that of course he wasnt expecting it at the beginning but Roddick too could've pushed Novak to it.
You just add your interpretations then go around calling others hypocites when what you do is pretty much the same.
Saying "ha ha of course he retired, I'm not surprised" is not trash talking? Then I don't know what is.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:54 PM
I remember Novak immitating players and refused to immitate Federer because he's "too perfect". He said that in such a disrespectful fashion. Fed is really a saint next to Djokovic.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 02:55 PM
Then I don't know what is.

Finally, some honesty!!! :shock:

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 02:55 PM
I remember Novak immitating players and refused to immitate Federer because he's "too perfect". He said that in such a disrespectful fashion. Fed is really a saint next to Djokovic.
How can it be disrespectful to say someone is too perfect? I have no doubt Federer would have agreed...

mandy01
05-26-2009, 02:56 PM
Saying "ha ha of course he retired, I'm not surprised" is not trash talking? Then I don't know what is. Now I know your posts have no credibility.He never said that or anything in that tone.Sure it didnt surprise him because its not like Novak had never retired before.Never did he call Novak out.All he said was that Djokovic had retired before,that he couldnt've have guessed it when the mtach started but towards the end with Roddick pushing in too it wasnt all too shocking.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:56 PM
How can it be disrespectful to say someone is too perfect? I have no doubt Federer would have agreed...

Just watch the video on Youtube. The disrespect there was obvious. It was more like he didn't acknowledge Fed's existence.

gj011
05-26-2009, 02:57 PM
LOOOOOOOOOL When did Fed trash talk? He just said it wasnt the first time and that of course he wasnt expecting it at the beginning but Roddick too could've pushed Novak to it.
You just add your interpretations then go around calling others hypocites when what you do is pretty much the same.

Fed indeed trash talked Novak on AO (making fun of his retirement) and Miami ("I figured him out long time ago" among other things). He is basically out of control with his interviews lately and his most often victim is Novak.

Novak was smart one this time and let his racquet talk and the court, spanking foulmouthed Federer twice after that. There will be more.

fedtastic
05-26-2009, 02:57 PM
I didn't twist anything. You are. Fed's original statement was NOT made in a spirit of compassion. it was an unwelcome cheap shot at a guy who had gone through tough matches and tough conditions numerous times before (the Olympics come to mind) and would do so numerous times afterwards (Madrid for instance) and did not deserve to be spurned that way.


How the hell do you know what Fed really meant by that. Are you a mind reader? Or do you know Federer personally.


The fact is his statement can be interpreted in a variety of ways and you choose to focus on portraying him as a malicious villan rather than a frank and honest person. Anyways, its good to see honest players in the game who speak their mind. They are becoming too rare these days. Many players are hiding behind the mask of humbleness and false fascade. Its no use arguing about this.

We all know Djoker has breathing issues and I think Federer knew that as well. Maybe Federer thought since he was the defending champion, Novak wouldn't quite like that. If Fed knew about Djoker's breathing issues then he was just being honest and said Novak quitting doesn't surprise him. What is so wrong with that statement?

bruce38
05-26-2009, 02:58 PM
Just watch the video on Youtube. The disrespect there was obvious. It was more like he didn't acknowledge Fed's existence.

Oh Novak is a pure egomaniac. Just watch his face on court. It reveals all.

P_Agony
05-26-2009, 02:58 PM
Now I know your posts have no credibility.He never said that or anything in that tone.Sure it didnt surprise him because its not like Novak had never retired before.Never did he call Novak out.All he said was that Djokovic had retired before,that he couldn'e have guessed it when the mtach started but towards the end with Roddick pushing in too it could've happened.

Yes, and of course Roddick got no credit from most people here afterwards. I remember gj011 calling Roddick a joke after the match was over.

Hatred is taking the people here to new levels.