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View Full Version : Can we agree that the Fed-Djoker match will decide the 2nd best clay courter?


kraggy
05-26-2009, 09:30 AM
Joker fans would love to see Joker win and Fed fans would love to see Fed win. Irrespective of whether Fed slips into la-la-land or Djoker goes into huff-puff land, whoever wins this match should be called the better clay courter. No excuses from fans of either side! Unless Uncle Toni stabs one of them in the back, the result of this match (assuming it happens) should be the decider.

Agreed?

vtmike
05-26-2009, 09:35 AM
-.-- . ... --..-- -... ..- - --- -. .-.. -.-- ..-. --- .-. ..--- ----- ----- ----.

kraggy
05-26-2009, 09:37 AM
.................

I'm sorry my understanding of morse code is not upto par :neutral:

maximo
05-26-2009, 09:38 AM
It's already been decided when they played in Rome.

gj011
05-26-2009, 09:39 AM
No. Only if the schedule was fair to both players and they are both healthy and rested.

If it would be the case of Wimbledon 2007 when Djokovic played two 5 hour matches in two days and than had to play the SF third day in a row, while Federer had 5 days break in the meantime, than of course that match would not mean much.

Or case like Madrid 2009. That final didn't mean anything since Nadal was exhausted, because of 4 hour the SF with Djokovic.

vtmike
05-26-2009, 09:39 AM
I'm sorry my understanding of morse code is not upto par :neutral:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~djg11/howcomputerswork/morse%20code%20alphabet.jpg

:)

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 09:41 AM
Djoko's draw is much tougher than Fed's draw, so let's see first if he can reach the semi and in what condition. (If Djoko had Fed's draw and Fed had Djoko's, I would not hesitate to bet on Djoko as the RG finalist but that's another discussion). I don't need RG though to say that all along the clay season, Djoko has been the second best clay player, making the final of the 2 most important clay tournaments: Rome and Monte-Carlo.

gj011
05-26-2009, 09:43 AM
It's already been decided when they played in Rome.

Of course that match has to be taken into account as well when their clay season is evaluated. Fed fans would like it to be forgotten.

kraggy
05-26-2009, 09:51 AM
Of course that match has to be taken into account as well

Agreed but since the FO match will be their last match in the clay season

If Fed wins and loses the final : Their clay H2H will be 1-1 this season, Feds win will be in the bigger tournament and Fed has beaten Nadal once. I would then call Fed the better clay courter this season.

If Djoker wins and loses the final : the clay H2H will be 2-0 favor of Djoker this season. I would definitely call Djoker the better clay courter this season.

Of course if either player actually wins and beats Nadal in the final (unlikely but not impossible), then it would be a clear cut decision.

checkmilu
05-26-2009, 09:55 AM
who care about second best, they need to fight till the end & beat Rafa to be the best, otherwise not so important

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 10:02 AM
Agreed but since the FO match will be their last match in the clay season

If Fed wins and loses the final : Their clay H2H will be 1-1 this season, Feds win will be in the bigger tournament and Fed has beaten Nadal once. I would then call Fed the better clay courter this season.

If Djoker wins and loses the final : the clay H2H will be 2-0 favor of Djoker this season. I would definitely call Djoker the better clay courter this season.

Of course if either player actually wins and beats Nadal in the final (unlikely but not impossible), then it would be a clear cut decision.
It could also be who has the best draw and we all know who that is. One cannot underestimate the importance of the draw. If Fed had had Murray in Rome instead of Djoko, he would probably have made the final. Abilitywise they're probably very close at this point. One big difference is that Fed has beaten Nadal on clay (twice), Djoko never has (but let's remember Djoko is also much younger). Of course neither of them has beaten Nadal in a best of 5.

CocaCola
05-26-2009, 10:09 AM
It's Djoker but if Fed fans need's another prove, why not?

drakulie
05-26-2009, 10:11 AM
Joker fans would love to see Joker win and Fed fans would love to see Fed win. Irrespective of whether Fed slips into la-la-land or Djoker goes into huff-puff land, whoever wins this match should be called the better clay courter. No excuses from fans of either side! Unless Uncle Toni stabs one of them in the back, the result of this match (assuming it happens) should be the decider.

Agreed?

Fed is the number 1 clay courter right now, being that he dethroned Rafa on clay last week.

Being that rafa beat joker last week, that would make Nadal # 2.

Not sure who # 3 or 4 are between Joker and Murray.

manny pacquiao P4P king
05-26-2009, 10:12 AM
roddick is second best on clay, and he's won more titles on clay than djokovic too prove this.

veroniquem
05-26-2009, 10:13 AM
roddick is second best on clay, and he's won more titles on clay than djokovic too prove this.
I think we're talking this year, not all time.

skip1969
05-26-2009, 10:16 AM
what exactly is the big deal? is there a nice prize that goes with the "second-best clay courter in the world?" maybe a gift card for best buy? or a nice 100% cotton t-shirt?

Andres
05-26-2009, 10:17 AM
^^ Exactly. Why do you need to know?

IvanAndreevich
05-26-2009, 10:20 AM
Of course not. gj011 will only say so if Djokovic wins.

Docalex007
05-26-2009, 10:22 AM
I agree but I think Fed as of right now is the 2nd best clay courter out there simply because Fed won a clay tournament by beating Nadal and people forget Federer was leading Djokovic a set and a break at both the other two clay masters events and could have pulled both wins out easily by just maintaining concentration and level of play.

kraggy
05-26-2009, 10:23 AM
what exactly is the big deal? is there a nice prize that goes with the "second-best clay courter in the world?" maybe a gift card for best buy? or a nice 100% cotton t-shirt?

Its an all you can buy at Circuit City before they go out of business!

Andres
05-26-2009, 10:24 AM
^^ Who has the longest active clay streak? :mrgreen:

joeri888
05-26-2009, 10:24 AM
Yes I agree. If they are to meet in the semis, the winner will be the 2009 second best claycourter. If either doesn't make it and the other makes the final, he is the second best claycourter. In fact, whoever makes the final of Roland Garros OR wins this tournament is the second best claycourter.

skip1969
05-27-2009, 08:14 AM
Its an all you can buy at Circuit City before they go out of business!
didn't they already go out of business?? oh wait . . . that would be a crap prize . . . for the second-best claycourter . . . ooooh!

woodrow1029
05-27-2009, 08:23 AM
No. Only if the schedule was fair to both players and they are both healthy and rested.

If it would be the case of Wimbledon 2007 when Djokovic played two 5 hour matches in two days and than had to play the SF third day in a row, while Federer had 5 days break in the meantime, than of course that match would not mean much.

Or case like Madrid 2009. That final didn't mean anything since Nadal was exhausted, because of 4 hour the SF with Djokovic.
Gee. What a shocker!!

Nadal_Freak
05-27-2009, 10:23 AM
Djokovic is already the better clay courter. Win or lose. Upsets do happen.

thejoe
05-27-2009, 10:25 AM
^Based on what?

drakulie
05-27-2009, 10:25 AM
Djokovic is already the better clay courter. Win or lose. Upsets do happen.


I don't agree that Joker is a better clay courter than Nadal, as evidenced by the fact the last time they played>>> Nadal beat him, and has more clay court titles than him this year.

PS: Why do you keep hating on Nadal???

Nadal_Freak
05-27-2009, 10:27 AM
I don't agree that Joker is a better clay courter than Nadal, as evidenced by the fact the last time they played>>> Nadal beat him, and has more clay court titles than him this year.

PS: Why do you keep hating on Nadal???
You know this thread is about Federer. Monte-Carlo and Rome shows whose had the better clay seaon.

thejoe
05-27-2009, 10:31 AM
You know this thread is about Federer. Monte-Carlo and Rome shows whose had the better clay seaon.

This is the most laughable reasoning I've ever seen. All you've done is left out the tournament that Federer won. I can just as easily say "Madrid shows who has had the better clay season" seeing as he beat Nadal and won a big title. That ranks above losing 3 matches and winning a tiddly little title in Belgrade.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 10:31 AM
You know this thread is about Federer. Monte-Carlo and Rome shows whose had the better clay seaon.


Last time I checked, Fed is the holder of the last clay court masters. He also snapped Nadal's winning streak on clay, and denied him the opportunity to be the first guy in history to win all 4 clay events in one year.

The # 2 spot goes to Nadal, and number 3 to Joker.

Pirao
05-27-2009, 10:32 AM
No doubt.

10 chars

Last time I checked, Fed is the holder of the last clay court masters. He also snapped Nadal's winning streak on clay, and denied him the opportunity to be the first guy in history to win all 4 clay events in one year.

The # 2 spot goes to Djokovic, and number 3 to Fed.

Fixed

Solomon
05-27-2009, 10:33 AM
Last time I checked, Fed is the holder of the last clay court masters. He also snapped Nadal's winning streak on clay, and denied him the opportunity to be the first guy in history to win all 4 clay events in one year.

The # 2 spot goes to Nadal, and number 3 to Joker.

No.

1. Federer
2. Brian Dabul
3. Nadal
4. Djokovic

thejoe
05-27-2009, 10:34 AM
^Where is Andy Roddick in that list? He is the only player who took a set of the best clay court player in Madrid.

Nadal_Freak
05-27-2009, 10:36 AM
This is the most laughable reasoning I've ever seen. All you've done is left out the tournament that Federer won. I can just as easily say "Madrid shows who has had the better clay season" seeing as he beat Nadal and won a big title. That ranks above losing 3 matches and winning a tiddly little title in Belgrade.
Madrid was in altitude and Nadal was exhausted. Not a good example of the clay court season. Rome and Monte-Carlo are more true examples of clay court tennis.

DownTheLine
05-27-2009, 10:36 AM
To me you have to look that Federer has been in the finals how many years at the FO compared to djoker and who has beat Nadal more on clay those two things point towards federer.

Fed has my vote but of course i am a fanboy.

Solomon
05-27-2009, 10:37 AM
Madrid was in altitude and Nadal was exhausted. Not a good example of the clay court season. Rome and Monte-Carlo are more true examples of clay court tennis.


Lololololololololol

thejoe
05-27-2009, 10:38 AM
Madrid was in altitude and Nadal was exhausted. Not a good example of the clay court season. Rome and Monte-Carlo are more true examples of clay court tennis.

Explain to me, in as much detail as you can, how this was a factor (I don't expect a coherent answer here.) Federer didn't get into any rallies that would have exposed Nadal's fatigue. How did his fatigue show up when Federer was ending the points so quickly?

Not a good example? It was played on clay wasn't it? The bounce was high, which in no way whatsoever favours Federer. I don't see how you can try and spin it that way.

What exactly is "true" clay court tennis oh wise one? Any conditions which favour Nadal? It's a perfect example of clay court tennis, seeing as it is played on *shock horror* clay. If Nadal had won, you wouldn't have been complaining.

DownTheLine
05-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Madrid was in altitude and Nadal was exhausted. Not a good example of the clay court season. Rome and Monte-Carlo are more true examples of clay court tennis.

Even the announcers at the FO this morning that Nadal is the one who *****es most about the altitude. Nadal just can't take a true loss.

Is fed going on a rant the only reason he lost his #1 ranking because of mono?

BigServer1
05-27-2009, 10:40 AM
"Djokovic is the second best clay court player"

I don't see how this is the case...Djokovic has never made a French final, and he's never beaten Nadal on clay. Federer has 3 straight French finals and 2 wins over Nadal on clay.

IF they both get there and Djokovic beats Fed in the semis(and it's a big if since Federer is 3-1 against Djokovic in Slam matches), I will concede that Djokovic is superior to Federer on clay, but until then I think that the results favor Federer in this argument.

DownTheLine
05-27-2009, 10:40 AM
Explain to me, in as much detail as you can, how this was a factor (I don't expect a coherent answer here.) Federer didn't get into any rallies that would have exposed Nadal's fatigue. How did his fatigue show up when Federer was ending the points so quickly?

Not a good example? It was played on clay wasn't it? The bounce was high, which in no way whatsoever favours Federer. I don't see how you can try and spin it that way.

What exactly is "true" clay court tennis oh wise one? Any conditions which favour Nadal? It's a perfect example of clay court tennis, seeing as it is played on *shock horror* clay. If Nadal had won, you wouldn't have been complaining.
I agree last time i checked Federer doesn't have a great backhand when it comes to high balls so i think nadal was trying to make another excuse for his stupidity.

Nadal_Freak
05-27-2009, 10:43 AM
Explain to me, in as much detail as you can, how this was a factor (I don't expect a coherent answer here.) Federer didn't get into any rallies that would have exposed Nadal's fatigue. How did his fatigue show up when Federer was ending the points so quickly?

Not a good example? It was played on clay wasn't it? The bounce was high, which in no way whatsoever favours Federer. I don't see how you can try and spin it that way.

What exactly is "true" clay court tennis oh wise one? Any conditions which favour Nadal? It's a perfect example of clay court tennis, seeing as it is played on *shock horror* clay. If Nadal had won, you wouldn't have been complaining.
Fed got many more free points on his serve than he usually gets on clay against Nadal. Faster conditions. And Nadal would've finished his match much quicker against Djokovic if he could break more. The altitude kept the ball high so Nadal couldn't get a comfortable return. Add to the fact that it was warm and dry and Djokovic taking Nadal over 4 hours. Nadal felt much weaker the next day. You lose a lot of weight in a short time when you play that long of matches. Credit to Nadal for fighting through with Djokovic but I knew he wouldn't have anything left for the final.

thejoe
05-27-2009, 10:45 AM
Fed got many more free points on his serve than he usually gets on clay against Nadal. Faster conditions. And Nadal would've finished his match much quicker against Djokovic if he could break more. The altitude kept the ball high so Nadal couldn't get a comfortable return. Add to the fact that it was warm and dry and Djokovic taking Nadal over 4 hours. Nadal felt much weaker the next day. You lose a lot of weight in a short time when you play that long of matches. Credit to Nadal for fighting through with Djokovic but I knew he wouldn't have anything left for the final.

That is poor. He was fine for the final. Also, the semi was not 4 hours long. Subtract the ludicrous breaks between points and injury time outs, and you have a standard competitive match.

There you go again whinging about the high ball. Nadal with his western grip has an easier time than Federer with his eastern. You can't claim that one. How do you know he felt weaker? He certainly didn't look it. I doubt weight loss is a factor either :roll:

woodrow1029
05-27-2009, 10:48 AM
Madrid was in altitude and Nadal was exhausted. Not a good example of the clay court season. Rome and Monte-Carlo are more true examples of clay court tennis.
Anytime I need a laugh, you are right there!

drakulie
05-27-2009, 11:01 AM
No.

1. Federer
2. Brian Dabul
3. Nadal
4. Djokovic


Oh yeah! Sorry>>> I forgot about Dabul. :)

Also, the joe is correct in stating Roddick should be up there too, since he is the last one to take a set off fed on clay.

So, the new list is

1. Fed
2. Dabul
3. Nadal (by a marging over Roddick)
3. Roddick
4. Joker.

P_Agony
05-27-2009, 11:04 AM
It has more to do with how Roger plays. If he plays well, I don't like Djoko's chances. If he plays like he did in their best of 3 matches, Djokovic will spank him.

Either way, I agree the match between the two will decide who was the better clayer of the season.

skip1969
05-27-2009, 11:06 AM
keep the discussion alive, guys. i'm still designing the complimentary, 100% cotton t-shirt which will be given to the man who is crowned "second-best clay courter." such an honor deserves an equally grand prize!

i was thinking about making the t-shirt pink . . .

mzzmuaa
05-27-2009, 11:08 AM
yea
if federer wins then nadal is 2nd best claycourter
if djokovic wins then djokovic is 2nd best claycourter

gj011
05-27-2009, 11:11 AM
You all forgot Stakhovsky who beat Dabul yesterday.

More appropriate standings would be:
1. Stakhovsky
2. Dabul
3. Federer
4. Nadal
5. Djokovic

And if Djokovic beat Stakhovski tomorrow it will be:

1. Djokovic
2. Stakhovski
3. Dabul
4. Federer
5. Nadal

tennisplaya
05-27-2009, 11:11 AM
If Nole gets further than Federer in this tournament Nole remains the #2 on clay. If federer gets further than Nole, Federer leapfrogs Nole to become #2 on clay.

Solomon
05-27-2009, 11:17 AM
Oh yeah! Sorry>>> I forgot about Dabul. :)

Also, the joe is correct in stating Roddick should be up there too, since he is the last one to take a set off fed on clay.

So, the new list is

1. Fed
2. Dabul
3. Nadal (by a marging over Roddick)
3. Roddick
4. Joker.

That sounds about right :)

drakulie
05-27-2009, 11:19 AM
i was thinking about making the t-shirt pink . . .


Nadal's clothes is so pink, even his shadow becomes pink:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/drakulie/bfd004bd50212042bd81480e379d387e-ge.jpg

vtmike
05-27-2009, 11:34 AM
Madrid was in altitude and Nadal was exhausted. Not a good example of the clay court season. Rome and Monte-Carlo are more true examples of clay court tennis.

Wait a min...I thought you said Nadal is the king of all clay...:?

Vamos Rafa. King of Clay. Slow clay, fast clay, all clay. :)

aphex
05-27-2009, 11:46 AM
Wait a min...I thought you said Nadal is the king of all clay...:?

http://fuse.superglue.se/pwned.jpg

djones
05-27-2009, 01:02 PM
Well even if Federer wins, that would make it just 1-1 in h2h's this year.

JeMar
05-27-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm sorry my understanding of morse code is not upto par :neutral:

http://www.livephysics.com/ptools/morse-code.php

Enjoy!

Defcon
05-27-2009, 01:59 PM
2nd best is irrelevant. Its what losers say to console themselves. Beat Nadal, or go home.

jelle v
05-27-2009, 02:34 PM
Pretty pathetic and predictable posts again from Nadal_Freak, Veroniquem and tr011.. the anti-Federer tripod..

In my opinion Nadal is by far the best clay courter (duh) and Federer and Djokovic are about of the same level, below Nadal.

Who the better clay courter is, is not decided by the outcome of 1 or even 2 matches between the two. Especially not in the case of Federer and Djokovic, 2 players who pretty close. You have to look at the overall picture. In the end it will be the form of the day that decides who wins an eventual semi-final between Federer and Djokovic. If they both play at 100% i would give Federer a 60% against Djoker 40% of winning, maybe 55 - 45.

lawrence
05-27-2009, 05:56 PM
Of course that match has to be taken into account as well when their clay season is evaluated. Fed fans would like it to be forgotten.

That match didn't count, it wasn't on the "real" FO clay.

Sorry buddy :(

kraggy
05-27-2009, 09:14 PM
Who the better clay courter is, is not decided by the outcome of 1 or even 2 matches between the two. Especially not in the case of Federer and Djokovic, 2 players who pretty close. You have to look at the overall picture. In the end it will be the form of the day that decides who wins an eventual semi-final between Federer and Djokovic.

Agreed. Technically, unless we have a fairly large sample set of H2H clay matches played this year, it would be hard to make a statement on who is better right now. Personally though, I would give the edge to whomever wins the FO clash (assuming it happens).

thejoe
05-28-2009, 01:05 AM
Fed got many more free points on his serve than he usually gets on clay against Nadal. Faster conditions. And Nadal would've finished his match much quicker against Djokovic if he could break more. The altitude kept the ball high so Nadal couldn't get a comfortable return. Add to the fact that it was warm and dry and Djokovic taking Nadal over 4 hours. Nadal felt much weaker the next day. You lose a lot of weight in a short time when you play that long of matches. Credit to Nadal for fighting through with Djokovic but I knew he wouldn't have anything left for the final.

Also, I've just remembered that you said Nadal prefers faster clay (I'm thinking back to Barcelona) where you said that it was his best surface. So a fast, high bouncing surface really favours Nadal and he still lost. Wow.

sh@de
05-28-2009, 01:44 AM
I agree with the question stated in the title.

Leublu tennis
05-28-2009, 01:55 AM
Djoko's draw is much tougher than Fed's draw, so let's see first if he can reach the semi and in what condition. (If Djoko had Fed's draw and Fed had Djoko's, I would not hesitate to bet on Djoko as the RG finalist but that's another discussion). I don't need RG though to say that all along the clay season, Djoko has been the second best clay player, making the final of the 2 most important clay tournaments: Rome and Monte-Carlo.I'm with you. If Djokovic does well against Federer, there is a good chance that he will take out Nadal. Hey, 3 m.p. in Madrid says a lot.

coloskier
05-28-2009, 07:13 AM
Djoko's draw is much tougher than Fed's draw, so let's see first if he can reach the semi and in what condition. (If Djoko had Fed's draw and Fed had Djoko's, I would not hesitate to bet on Djoko as the RG finalist but that's another discussion). I don't need RG though to say that all along the clay season, Djoko has been the second best clay player, making the final of the 2 most important clay tournaments: Rome and Monte-Carlo.

That is why you try to be 2nd seeded vs 3rd seeded. the higher you are ranked, usually the easier the draw. The only difference here is that there are some very good clay court players that aren't highly ranked because they stink on every other surface slanting the draw.

BreakPoint
05-30-2009, 12:02 PM
It's already been decided. :)

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 12:06 PM
One loss doesn't obliterate an entire clay season.

WacArnold's
05-30-2009, 12:10 PM
One loss doesn't obliterate an entire clay season.

I agree, but why did he lose when it mattered the most.

nikdom
05-30-2009, 12:11 PM
One loss doesn't obliterate an entire clay season.

The whole point of the clay season is as a lead up to RG. I won't discredit what Djoko did on clay so far this year, but that just makes his exit today all the more shocking.

BTW - just to call out on your hypocrisy - you wouldn't extend the same courtesy to Roger. He's only lost to someone named Nadal at the FO the last 4 years, 3 times in the final. He would have at least 3 FOs without Nadal around. Are you willing to call him the 2nd best clay courter of the past 4 years?

lambielspins
05-30-2009, 12:19 PM
One loss doesn't obliterate an entire clay season.

A clay court season that achieved what? No Masters titles, no first win over Nadal, one dinky tournament over a bunch of nobodies in an event that his parents put together, and a 4th round loss at the French. Federer has achieved the Masters title, a win over Nadal, and advanced further at the French. Federer>Djokovic on clay yet again just like every other year.

vtmike
05-30-2009, 12:21 PM
One loss doesn't obliterate an entire clay season.

Funny I didn't see you say that when people jumped all over Fed when he lost to Djokovic...

kraggy
05-30-2009, 12:21 PM
The whole point of the clay season is as a lead up to RG. I won't discredit what Djoko did on clay so far this year, but that just makes his exit today all the more shocking.

BTW - just to call out on your hypocrisy - you wouldn't extend the same courtesy to Roger. He's only lost to someone named Nadal at the FO the last 4 years, 3 times in the final. He would have at least 3 FOs without Nadal around. Are you willing to call him the 2nd best clay courter of the past 4 years?

I'm a Nole fan and I'm not at all a fan of Federer but if Fed gets to the finals and makes a match of it , I will have to go with Fed being the 2nd best clay courter. If Fed loses with a scoreline similar to FO 08, I think I would call it a hung jury!

lambielspins
05-30-2009, 12:23 PM
Djokovic has never achieved anything that would put him contention for being the 2nd best clay courter. 1 Masters title, no French Open finals, no wins over Nadal on clay. He hasnt even beaten David Ferrer on clay yet in his career for crying out loud, and took playing Federer multiple times before finally getting a win. This year he cost his country the Davis Cup tie vs Spain since he got beat in 3 straight sets by Ferrer, his 3rd or 4th straight loss to Ferrer on clay lifetime, and he loses in the 3rd round of the French in straight sets to Kohlschreiber and there is a discussion of him being the 2nd best on clay, LOL!

Serve_Ace
05-30-2009, 12:31 PM
I'm a Nole fan and I'm not at all a fan of Federer but if Fed gets to the finals and makes a match of it , I will have to go with Fed being the 2nd best clay courter. If Fed loses with a scoreline similar to FO 08, I think I would call it a hung jury!

So you don't remember 2006, or 2007 at all do you, only 2008 RG happened apparently.

kraggy
05-30-2009, 12:35 PM
Djokovic has never achieved anything that would put him contention for being the 2nd best clay courter. 1 Masters title, no French Open finals, no wins over Nadal on clay. He hasnt even beaten David Ferrer on clay yet in his career for crying out loud, and took playing Federer multiple times before finally getting a win.

I think most people are only talking about THIS season as far as the comparison. Overall career-wise, of course Fed is the better clay courter. This season( until today) , Djoker has been more consistent(until today) than Fed looked and hence looked like he could be the 2nd best clay courter. I might be wrong but I think Djoker earned more points on clay than Federer. A parallel example might be something like Seffina vs Serena. Seffina may have way more points but Serena is the big slam winner. After today's loss though, the results at this point are definitely in favor of Federer. Unless Fed is thrashed by Nadal in the final, I would vote in favor of Federer as the 2nd best clay courter of the season, despite being a huge Nole fan.

kraggy
05-30-2009, 12:35 PM
So you don't remember 2006, or 2007 at all do you, only 2008 RG happened apparently.

We are talking about this season only. In 2006 , 2007 etc of course Fed was the 2nd best.

nikdom
05-30-2009, 12:37 PM
So you don't remember 2006, or 2007 at all do you, only 2008 RG happened apparently.

yeah, the very same people who go around saying Djokovic gets no credit have really bad double standards when it comes to Roger.

THESEXPISTOL
05-30-2009, 12:37 PM
Yes, i think we can :-)

thejoe
05-30-2009, 12:43 PM
One loss doesn't obliterate an entire clay season.

No, but Federer's Masters Shield and a better performance at RG certainly does.

lambielspins
05-30-2009, 12:45 PM
No, but Federer's Masters Shield and a better performance at RG certainly does.

Not to mention Djokovic being spanked in straight sets by a past his prime David Ferrer in Davis Cup, causing his country to lose that tie.

BreakPoint
05-30-2009, 04:35 PM
A clay court season that achieved what? No Masters titles, no first win over Nadal, one dinky tournament over a bunch of nobodies in an event that his parents put together, and a 4th round loss at the French. Federer has achieved the Masters title, a win over Nadal, and advanced further at the French. Federer>Djokovic on clay yet again just like every other year.
Djokovic lost in the 3rd round today, not the 4th round.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 05:13 PM
I agree, but why did he lose when it mattered the most.

I wish I knew. I didn't get to watch the match because I usually DVR it and watch it at my own leisure. When I turned the TV on it was almost over. But Kohlschreiber is a good player, he reminds me of Davydenko, so he deserved his win!

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 05:20 PM
No, but Federer's Masters Shield and a better performance at RG certainly does.

Does this stuff really matter? Before Fed won Madrid, he was having a horrible season. Djokovic was the better clay player. Things have turned around very recently, so why is everyone acting like Djokovic never had a chance? It was a fluke loss. Who would have ever bet on Djokovic losing to Kohlschreiber, in a grand slam no less?

I'm puzzled by all the finger pointing and childish behavior over this result. Not you personally, but you'd think some people were actually going to get surprise deposits in their bank accounts!

drakulie
05-30-2009, 05:25 PM
Does this stuff really matter? Before Fed won Madrid, he was having a horrible season. Djokovic was the better clay player.


WRONG! Joker was having a better clay season. He has never been a better clay court player than Federer.

Now stop posting your trollish filth.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 05:27 PM
The whole point of the clay season is as a lead up to RG. I won't discredit what Djoko did on clay so far this year, but that just makes his exit today all the more shocking.

BTW - just to call out on your hypocrisy - you wouldn't extend the same courtesy to Roger. He's only lost to someone named Nadal at the FO the last 4 years, 3 times in the final. He would have at least 3 FOs without Nadal around. Are you willing to call him the 2nd best clay courter of the past 4 years?

Go read some posts of mine before calling me out on my hypocrisy. When Fed lost the Wimbledon final I was consoling the Fed Fans because they were so distraught. When Rafa beat Fed 1-3-0 at the French last year, I didn't say anything negative about the result. Unless, posters like yourself got out of line and start calling me out with baseless claims.

But, unlike many posters here, I don't act childish and petty when my fave wins or loses. And I don't dog out the person who lost, not even Fed. That's pathetic behaviour and belongs on the playground, imo.

If you knew anything about my post history, you would've never made such a false claim.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 05:29 PM
WRONG! Joker was having a better clay season. He has never been a better clay court player than Federer.

Now stop posting your trollish filth.

Whatever! What does that do for your life? I'm cracking up laughing at the extent to which you care!

I'm not living on their results. I have my own life!

P.S.-Did you ever answer my post about the pot calling the kettle black? Remember? You called someone a troll...you know the rest!

drakulie
05-30-2009, 05:35 PM
Whatever! What does that do for your life? I'm cracking up laughing at the extent to which you care!

I'm not living on their results. I have my own life!

P.S.-Did you ever answer my post about the pot calling the kettle black? Remember? You called someone a troll...you know the rest!


what do you care???


Troll!

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 05:39 PM
what do you care???


Troll!

You are disrespecting the rules of this forum.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 05:40 PM
what do you care???


Troll!

I don't care. I wasn't expecting an answer, because I know you don't have one, other than to resort to name-calling.

drakulie
05-30-2009, 05:42 PM
I don't care.


sure you do. If not, you wouldn't be responding to my posts, or asking me questions.

nikdom
05-30-2009, 05:44 PM
Go read some posts of mine before calling me out on my hypocrisy. When Fed lost the Wimbledon final I was consoling the Fed Fans because they were so distraught. When Rafa beat Fed 1-3-0 at the French last year, I didn't say anything negative about the result. Unless, posters like yourself got out of line and start calling me out without baseless claims.

But, unlike many posters here, I don't act childish and petty when my fave wins or loses. And I don't dog out the person who lost, not even Fed. That's pathetic behaviour and belongs on the playground, imo.

If you knew anything about my post history, you would've have never made such a false claim.

I don't have to know your history. Right now you're not willing to concede Roger is the better player on clay against all logic. That's enough for me. I think the only reason you are on this thread is to troll.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 05:47 PM
I don't have to know your history. Right now you're not willing to concede Roger is the better player on clay against all logic. That's enough for me. I think the only reason you are on this thread is to troll.

You don't have to know my history to make false claims about me? You won't even check to see if you're right?

OK!

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 05:49 PM
sure you do. If not, you wouldn't be responding to my posts, or asking me questions.

Just Answer The Question!!!!! Lol!

drakulie
05-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Just Answer The Question!!!!! Lol!


you are violating the rules of the forum.

nikdom
05-30-2009, 05:53 PM
You don't have to know my history to make false claims about me? You won't even check to see if you're right?

OK!

What is a false claim? That you are a hypocrite? That is evident just from the fact that you won't call Roger the 2nd best on the SAME logic you're willing to apply to cut Djoko some slack. What else do I need. That you sympathized with Fed fans somewhere in the distant past is irrelevant to this discussion.

dh003i
05-30-2009, 05:57 PM
Fed got many more free points on his serve than he usually gets on clay against Nadal. Faster conditions. And Nadal would've finished his match much quicker against Djokovic if he could break more. The altitude kept the ball high so Nadal couldn't get a comfortable return. Add to the fact that it was warm and dry and Djokovic taking Nadal over 4 hours. Nadal felt much weaker the next day. You lose a lot of weight in a short time when you play that long of matches. Credit to Nadal for fighting through with Djokovic but I knew he wouldn't have anything left for the final.

Except high balls are supposed to _help_ Nadal and hurt Federer, because of his 1-handed backhand, which makes handling the high balls more difficult.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 06:00 PM
What is a false claim? That you are a hypocrite? That is evident just from the fact that you won't call Roger the 2nd best on the SAME logic you're willing to apply to cut Djoko some slack. What else do I need. That you sympathized with Fed fans somewhere in the distant past is irrelevant to this discussion.

Go back and read your initial post to me where you called me a hypocrite and said I wouldn't give Fed credit. The proof is on these boards, which you didn't bother to verify.

So, if I don't think Fed is the 2nd best clay courter I'm a hypocrite? Sorry, it's called my opinion. But, I think you are trying to stir up trouble so I'm going to avoid any further discussion with you.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 06:03 PM
you are violating the rules of the forum.

How? You're the one who started this, days ago. Just like you've been doing to Veroniquem here lately. You need to stop this silliness. Really.

drakulie
05-30-2009, 06:05 PM
Except high balls are supposed to _help_ Nadal and hurt Federer, because of his 1-handed backhand, which makes handling the high balls more difficult.


Good point. :) :)

nikdom
05-30-2009, 06:06 PM
So, if I don't think Fed is the 2nd best clay courter I'm a hypocrite? Sorry, it's called my opinion. But, I think you are trying to stir up trouble so I'm going to avoid any further discussion with you.

The definition of hypocrisy is to hold one to a certain standard and another to a different standard. If its ok for Djoko to lose in the 3rd round of the RG, not EVER having made it even as far as the finals and call him the 2nd best clay courter when Roger has TONS more achievements on clay than him, then its hypocrisy - and your hypocrisy IS your opinion.

As far as avoiding further discussion, what am I afraid of? That you'll start making sense all of a sudden?

CyBorg
05-30-2009, 06:07 PM
Drats. I wanted to see Nadal-Djokovic.

Monfils better have a big coming-out party or this will be another boring finish.

Oh, who am I kidding. It will be another boring finish.

Congrats Nadal.

Josherer
05-30-2009, 06:38 PM
WRONG! Joker was having a better clay season. He has never been a better clay court player than Federer.
Now stop posting your trollish filth.

Correct.

If you put Nadal aside, some would argue that Clay is Fed's best surface considering his record on the surface.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 07:18 PM
The definition of hypocrisy is to hold one to a certain standard and another to a different standard. If its ok for Djoko to lose in the 3rd round of the RG, not EVER having made it even as far as the finals and call him the 2nd best clay courter when Roger has TONS more achievements on clay than him, then its hypocrisy - and your hypocrisy IS your opinion.

As far as avoiding further discussion, what am I afraid of? That you'll start making sense all of a sudden?

Do you realize that up until Madrid, a week or two ago Djoker had the best clay court season? And it was always about a season, so I don't see your point as far as me not making sense.

But concerning your last sentence, why are you being so mean?

Ballinbob
05-30-2009, 07:24 PM
you are violating the rules of the forum.

hahahaha gotta love drak, that was well played out:):)

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 07:25 PM
Funny I didn't see you say that when people jumped all over Fed when he lost to Djokovic...

I'm not a Fed Fan, why would I care what people said in that regard? I never see you jump in when people say nasty things about Nadal. I wouldn't expect you to.

nikdom
05-30-2009, 07:29 PM
Do you realize that up until Madrid, a week or two ago Djoker had the best clay court season? And it was always about a season, so I don't see your point as far as me not making sense.

But concerning your last sentence, why are you being so mean?

1. The original post said nothing about a season. Simply states better clay courter.

2. The clay court season hasn't ended yet, with RG arguably being the real deal. Everything else is just a run up to this. Its like saying winning Halle or Queens and losing in the 3rd round at Wimbledon is a great grass season. The 2nd best clay courter would not collapse at a major like this.

3. I'm not being mean. Merely responding to your stupid insinuation that I'm somehow afraid of a discussion with you.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 07:31 PM
WRONG! Joker was having a better clay season. He has never been a better clay court player than Federer.

Now stop posting your trollish filth.

If you'll look at the post above, which would be #81, you would've seen that I said season all along. So, you actually agreed with what I said in the first place. Prior to Madrid and Djokovic's shock loss today, he had the better clay court season and most points on clay. How am I a troll for stating that? The experts have been saying this all year. I'm totally not understanding your hostility.

OddJack
05-30-2009, 07:38 PM
I like drakulie's hostility.

drakulie
05-30-2009, 07:39 PM
Interesting Thread about "The Truth's Class"


"Interesting article on Federer's class! "
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=137222


Here is one of The Truth's posts:

I don't have to research someone as plastic as Federer. He shows it every time he opens his mouth. Sheesh! As far as being ignored by you---Bring it! This is the first time I've even seen your screen name, so ignore, ignore!


BTW, this thread was started by none other than, The Truth.

Guess you should do a better job of checking your sources before starting these trolling threads.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 07:39 PM
1. The original post said nothing about a season. Simply states better clay courter.

2. The clay court season hasn't ended yet, with RG arguably being the real deal. Everything else is just a run up to this. Its like saying winning Halle or Queens and losing in the 3rd round at Wimbledon is a great grass season. The 2nd best clay courter would not collapse at a major like this.

3. I'm not being mean. Merely responding to your stupid insinuation that I'm somehow afraid of a discussion with you.

You're quoting the wrong sentence. I said the last sentence of your post. Not the second to last sentence. I'm talking about where you accused me of not making sense. That was mean.

And the original post did say season, there's been no editing because it would show up.

Ballinbob
05-30-2009, 07:39 PM
I like drakulie's hostility.

+1 I think the guy's hilarious lmao

lawrence
05-30-2009, 07:45 PM
how could djoker have been having a better clay season when 30% of this board thinks everything aside from RG is fake clay

drakulie
05-30-2009, 07:50 PM
Yet another gem from The Truth:


"How do you post a link for an article? "

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=199997

I was trying to post this article, but it didn't come in as a link. Inside it answers a few questions posters were asking, like D-jokeo-vic, or Jock-o-vic. This article answers this, amongst other things! Oh, and Fed and Nadal were supposed to play the same day, but Fed pulled the "I'm god" card!



I just love the way she got smacked around in this thread, just like the other one.


Anyway, I find it interesting The Truth states she is not a troll, yet, here is proof of her intentional trolling by starting threads, just to degrade Fed.

Oh, and her sources suck, as evidenced by the ownage handed to her by the posters in those threads.

flying24
05-30-2009, 07:54 PM
I am a big Federer fan as my posting history would show, and I prefer him to Nadal, I dont find TheTruth a troll. She/he obviously prefers Nadal to Federer and genuinely feels Federer is overrated by some, and also catered to by some people who run the game. I dont neccessarily agree but she/he is entitled to their opinion and I havent noticed this poster stating anything in a disrespectful manner or attacking other posters. Not everyone here has to love and worship Federer, it shouldnt be some build in requirement to post here.

sh@de
05-30-2009, 07:55 PM
how could djoker have been having a better clay season when 30% of this board thinks everything aside from RG is fake clay

Mate I love your dp. xDD But, I might disagree on the N_F bit. He's ok when he's not in Fed hate mode.

nikdom
05-30-2009, 07:58 PM
You're quoting the wrong sentence. I said the last sentence of your post. Not the second to last sentence. I'm talking about where you accused me of not making sense. That was mean.

And the original post did say season, there's been no editing because it would show up.

You don't make sense. If that's mean, so be it. See post #1 in this thread - there is no mention of a season. Even if YOU were only talking about the season, here's how you are WRONG -

1. Djokovic did very well on clay in 2009 until today. If he's to be called the 2nd best clay courter for this season, then he shouldn't have lost here before Roger. It would be different if Djoker had actually WON any of those Master's titles from Nadal.

2. You call Djoker's loss a fluke. By that extension all of Roger's losses are flukes. The guy has destroyed every player at least once. Whenever he loses its a fluke.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:04 PM
Interesting Thread about "The Truth's Class"


"Interesting article on Federer's class! "
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=137222


Here is one of The Truth's posts:




BTW, this thread was started by none other than, The Truth.

Guess you should do a better job of checking your sources before starting these trolling threads.

Hilarious! You find a two year post where I said gasp, I don't like Federer to cite as what? That I don't like Federer. I've always said that. It's not a secret that I'm not a Fed Fan. Reasonable posters understand that I don't have to like Fed as a prerequisite to watching tennis. Just like you don't have to like Roddick, Nadal, or any other tennis player. But that isn't a good enough reason to start calling people insulting names.

It's also funny that you don't share that my response was to a hostile poster who was mad because I posted the article about Fed's split with Roche.

So, you had to go back two years to think you found something on me? That's too funny. Thanks for the research, though what it proves escapes me, except some people can't stand that everyone doesn't love Fed.



06-06-2007, 11:32 AM #1
TheTruth
Hall Of Fame




Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,374 Interesting article on Federer's class!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the HERALD

============
Roche keen to help Hewitt

Leo Schlink

June 01, 2007 12:00am
Article from: Herald-Sun

Font size: + -

Send this article: Print Email

HIGHLY regarded Australian coach Tony Roche yesterday broke his silence to declare his interest in coaching Lleyton Hewitt.

Roche refused to elaborate on the reasons behind his dismissal from the Roger Federer camp.

However industry sources point to Federer's reluctance to pay Roche adequate bonuses, despite winning six of his 10 grand slams under the Sydneysider, as the main reason the pair fell out.

"I have no comment on that," Roche said yesterday.

"I'm taking a break at the moment and I don't have any plans right now.

"But it would be nice to be involved with an Australian player again. Lleyton and I go back a long way.

"He's playing the French Open right now and he's got Wimbledon coming up and I don't want to distract him from that. But when he gets back home after Wimbledon, I'd like to talk to him."

Roche, 62, was fired by Federer last month after the world No. 1 lost at the Rome Masters to Italian wildcard Filippo Volandri.

The decision shocked even the Swiss critics who declared Roche too old to help Federer, despite the pair's stunning record of 192 wins from 205 matches since 2005.

Those in Roche's corner are furious with comments made by Federer since the split.

He recently told The Times in London a breakdown in communication was the prime reason for the move.

"The situation with Tony had become really complex because all of a sudden we just didn't talk any more," Federer said.

"We would spend time on the practice court and barely say a word. It was sad but people change and times change.

"I suppose it is a special thing to coach me because of the set-up I have, how I am, how I see tennis and I know, as well, what is best for me.

"For me and my game, it is hard to have a coach but I remain open to anything. I've always had the gift that if someone tells me something, I can do it in five minutes. I don't need an hour."

Roche and Federer shared a handshake agreement since the end of the 2005 season.

The partnership was based on Roche travelling about 16 weeks a year, but floundered badly after Federer's victory at the Australian Open.

It is understood Roche was quietly dismayed at the reputedly meagre bonuses Federer awarded him for continued grand slam successes.

The Federer rewards are believed to be less than what Ivan Lendl, another world No. 1 mentored by Roche, paid the Australian during his halcyon sweep through the 1980s.

Roche is rumoured to have raised the issue with a senior figure in the Federer camp but, in doing so, is believed to have alienated Federer's influential girlfriend Mirka Vavrinec.

Hewitt wanted Roche to become his coach when Pat Rafter, coached by Roche, retired in 2002, but he was unable to take up the offer because of hip surgery.

Roche has always been close to Hewitt and, with Hewitt now living in Sydney, a union between the two seems inevitable.









06-06-2007, 12:48 PM #4
Polaris
Professional




Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,084

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Been there. Done that. This article was posted earlier on this thread.

It was confirmed by a TW member that The Herald Sun is a tabloid. For someone whose screen name is TheTruth, you allow a lot of leeway for rumors, speculation, and bad journalism. Your dislike of Federer is becoming comical.

Please accept this invitation to my Ignore List. You will love it there. It is full of Federer fanboys and Nadal fanboys, Federer haters and Nadal haters. And it is growing. Business is good, and we expect the stock to rise this year.

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,374

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris
Been there. Done that. This article was posted earlier on this thread.

It was confirmed by a TW member that The Herald Sun is a tabloid. For someone whose screen name is TheTruth, you allow a lot of leeway for rumors, speculation, and bad journalism. Your dislike of Federer is becoming comical.

Please accept this invitation to my Ignore List. You will love it there. It is full of Federer fanboys and Nadal fanboys, Federer haters and Nadal haters. And it is growing. Business is good, and we expect the stock to rise this year.

I don't have to research someone as plastic as Federer. He shows it every time he opens his mouth. Sheesh! As far as being ignored by you---Bring it! This is the first time I've even seen your screen name, so ignore, ignore!

oneleggedcardinal
05-30-2009, 08:09 PM
Found this picture of Drakulie out on the town after a doubles match.



http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n4/n22660.jpg

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:10 PM
Yet another gem from The Truth:


"How do you post a link for an article? "

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=199997



I just love the way she got smacked around in this thread, just like the other one.


Anyway, I find it interesting The Truth states she is not a troll, yet, here is proof of her intentional trolling by starting threads, just to degrade Fed.

Oh, and her sources suck, as evidenced by the ownage handed to her by the posters in those threads.

You live for this board and your hostility, don't you? Ownage? How silly. You twisted a post of mine and started coming up with old threads, two years old when I first came on this board and was getting by fans such as yourself who can't stand for someone not to be a Fed Fan. You have only proved how ridiculous you are! I could come up with a ton of insulting posts by you and people calling you trolls all day long. Fortunately, I wouldn't waste my time.

You just don't get it, do you? It's not a crime not to be fan of Federer's. Two year old threads. That's funny!

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:13 PM
Yet another gem from The Truth:


"How do you post a link for an article? "

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=199997



I just love the way she got smacked around in this thread, just like the other one.


Anyway, I find it interesting The Truth states she is not a troll, yet, here is proof of her intentional trolling by starting threads, just to degrade Fed.

Oh, and her sources suck, as evidenced by the ownage handed to her by the posters in those threads.

Smacked around? That's funny.

zagor
05-30-2009, 08:15 PM
Interesting Thread about "The Truth's Class"


"Interesting article on Federer's class! "
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=137222


Here is one of The Truth's posts:




BTW, this thread was started by none other than, The Truth.

Guess you should do a better job of checking your sources before starting these trolling threads.

Yet another gem from The Truth:


"How do you post a link for an article? "

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=199997



I just love the way she got smacked around in this thread, just like the other one.


Anyway, I find it interesting The Truth states she is not a troll, yet, here is proof of her intentional trolling by starting threads, just to degrade Fed.

Oh, and her sources suck, as evidenced by the ownage handed to her by the posters in those threads.

Interesting read,but I also found it amusing when I accidentally a few months ago stumbled upon her post in which she bashed Djokovic(called him an "idiot" and a "loser").Yet she and some other high horse posters are sure quick to jump on Fed fans for supposedly drawing Djokovic's name through mud(even when the poster wasn't directly criticizing Novak like in Vtmike's case).Here's the post:

Djokovic is an idiot. The commentators may be covering it up by gushing over him, but anyone who takes timeouts to win matches they are losing, is a loser.

Believe your own eyes and ears. Some people cannot be trusted!

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=1360436#post1360436

So Novak is an IDIOT and a LOSER who takes TIMEOUTS to win matches according to her.Yet she's all over Fed fans when they say similar things,even criticize Vtmike who didn't do anything but quite some boastful,arrogant posts(declaring Novak is better than Fed on clay even before the clay season ended).

It's a pot calling cattle black.

drakulie
05-30-2009, 08:16 PM
started coming up with old threads, two years old when I first came on this board

Here you go:

Found this picture of Drakulie out on the town after a doubles match.



http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n4/n22660.jpg

drakulie
05-30-2009, 08:18 PM
Interesting read,but I also found it amusing when I accidentally a few months ago stumbled upon her post in which she bashed Djokovic(called him an "idiot" and a "loser").Yet she and some other high horse posters are sure quick to jump on Fed fans for drawing Djokovic's name through mud(even when the poster wasn't directly criticizing Novak like in Vtmike's case).Here's the post:



http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=1360436#post1360436

So Novak is an IDIOT and a LOSER who takes TIMEOUTS to win matches according to her.Yet she's all over Fed fans when they say similar things,even criticize Vtmike who didn't do anything but quite some boastful,arrogant posts(declaring Novak is better than Fed on clay even before the clay season ended).

It's a pot calling cattle black.

Good job!!!

You are now officially a :




http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n4/n22660.jpg

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:20 PM
I am a big Federer fan as my posting history would show, and I prefer him to Nadal, I dont find TheTruth a troll. She/he obviously prefers Nadal to Federer and genuinely feels Federer is overrated by some, and also catered to by some people who run the game. I dont neccessarily agree but she/he is entitled to their opinion and I havent noticed this poster stating anything in a disrespectful manner or attacking other posters. Not everyone here has to love and worship Federer, it shouldnt be some build in requirement to post here.

Thank you. I appreciate that. It's good to see there are people on this board who can be a fan of someone and not feel everyone else has to go along with them.

zagor
05-30-2009, 08:22 PM
Good job!!!

You are now officially a :




http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n4/n22660.jpg

Lol,great pic.

nikdom
05-30-2009, 08:23 PM
Thank you. I appreciate that. It's good to see there are people on this board who can be a fan of someone and not feel everyone else has to go along with them.


I think you should stop posting on this thread now unless you are completely shameless.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:30 PM
Interesting read,but I also found it amusing when I accidentally a few months ago stumbled upon her post in which she bashed Djokovic(called him an "idiot" and a "loser").Yet she and some other high horse posters are sure quick to jump on Fed fans for supposedly drawing Djokovic's name through mud(even when the poster wasn't directly criticizing Novak like in Vtmike's case).Here's the post:



http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=1360436#post1360436

So Novak is an IDIOT and a LOSER who takes TIMEOUTS to win matches according to her.Yet she's all over Fed fans when they say similar things,even criticize Vtmike who didn't do anything but quite some boastful,arrogant posts(declaring Novak is better than Fed on clay even before the clay season ended).

It's a pot calling cattle black.


Ah, Zagor! I was waiting for you. Another two year old post when I didn't even like Djokovic. I didn't start liking him until after being on this board and realizing he was getting the short end of the stick.

Yep. I knew you were coming with your fair and objective self. Remember the battles we used to have because you kept dogging my posts crying about why I didn't like Federer? How many times did I ask you not to respond to me? I couldn't take it. Everytime I posted, there you were, your name right under mine. It could have been touching, but instead it was scary. How many times did you promise you wouldn't talk to me? You kept breaking your promises.

Ah, but then, what you perceive as an opportunity arises and here you are. Good. It proves to me I was right about you all along.

Oh, and I love the part about how you "accidentally" stumbled on a two year old post of mine. Tell me, how does that happen? You fingers slipped on the mouse, found my user name and dug up that post?

Seriously, you guys are killing me. Accidentally! That's rich!

drakulie
05-30-2009, 08:33 PM
How many times did you promise you wouldn't talk to me? You kept breaking your promises.




He wasn't talking to you. He was directing his post at me, and the other Troll Slayers.

but that is what we all like about you. Your attention to detail. :roll:

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:34 PM
I think you should stop posting on this thread now unless you are completely shameless.

I don't think the posters shamed me. I think they shamed themselves. Why would I be ashamed about 2-3 year old threads that only proved I don't like Federer? The posters should be ashamed for playing follow the leader. I would never go around attacking posters, and I have no respect for those who do. So, nope. The shame goes elsewhere!

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:36 PM
He wasn't talking to you. He was directing his post at me, and the other Troll Slayers.

but that is what we all like about you. Your attention to detail. :roll:

He was talking about me, so I can respond. And did. You and your cohorts can come all day long. Sorry, I'm not afraid of you.

grafrules
05-30-2009, 08:38 PM
best clay courter and 2nd best clay courter each year this decade IMO:

2000: best- Kuerten, 2nd best- Norman
2001: best- Kuerten, 2nd best- Ferrero
2002: best- Ferrero, 2nd best- Costa
2003: best- Ferrero, 2nd best- Coria
2004: best- Coria, 2nd best- Gaudio
2005: best- Nadal, 2nd best- Federer
2006: best- Nadal, 2nd best- Federer
2007: best- Nadal, 2nd best- Federer
2008: best- Nadal, 2nd best- Federer
2009: best- Nadal, 2nd best- ?, depends how deep Federer goes here although he should atleast make the final in which case Federer

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:41 PM
I think you should stop posting on this thread now unless you are completely shameless.

That's what you'd like, isn't it? It's the same old game. Let's attack someone who doesn't feel as we do. Let's all join in until they flee or compromise. Let's stifle the Nadal fans voices. That's what this is all about. Isn't it? Anyone who doesn't like Fed should be attacked. How sad. Unfortunately, it won't work. Sorry.

zagor
05-30-2009, 08:42 PM
Ah, Zagor! I was waiting for you. Another two year old post when I didn't even like Djokovic. I didn't start liking him until after being on this board and realizing he was getting the short end of the stick.

Not liking a player is one thing,calling him an idiot and a loser is another.

Yep. I knew you were coming with your fair and objective self.

Never said I was fair nor objective nor neutral nor any such nonsense.I'm a Fed fan(or fanboy,fanatic etc. if you wish) although I have many favourite players beside him as well.

Remember the battles we used to have because you kept dogging my posts crying about why I didn't like Federer?

Eh? Battles? Ok,whatever you say.As for me crying about you not liking Federer,not really.I was merely responding to your constant Fed bashing which is what fans of each player do here,Fed is my favourite player so that's not really a surprise.The vast majority of your posts are about attacking Fed one way or the other so it's not really surprising that you get responses from Fed fans.

How many times did you promise you wouldn't talk to me? You kept breaking your promises.

Actually I don't remember ever promising anything on this forum,I usually don't make promises on an internet message board.

It proves to me I was right about all along.

Whatever you say.

drakulie
05-30-2009, 08:48 PM
He was talking about me,


yeah, but you said he was talking to you.

Again, that is what we all like about you>>> your attention to detail.

But don't think twice. It's understanding that makes it possible for people like us to tolerate a person such as yourself.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 08:51 PM
Here you go:

Don't know why you're showing me. I don't call people trolls in the first place. Immature, methinks.

BigServer1
05-30-2009, 08:56 PM
TheTruth isn't a troll in my opinion.

I dunno why I feel the need to say it, but there's no reason to lump all Nadal fans as trolls, just like not all Fed fans are trolls. I feel like if we get this through our thick skulls, we might be able to make this a more enjoyable place. I'm around a lot less often lately because of all the name calling and BS that comes with the territory here.

fednad
05-30-2009, 08:58 PM
When is Novak's next match scheduled?

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 09:05 PM
Not liking a player is one thing,calling him an idiot and a loser is another.



Never said I was fair nor objective nor neutral nor any such nonsense.I'm a Fed fan(or fanboy,fanatic etc. if you wish) although I have many favourite players beside him as well.



Eh? Battles? Ok,whatever you say.As for me crying about you not liking Federer,not really.I was merely responding to your constant Fed bashing which is what fans of each player do here,Fed is my favourite player so that's not really a surprise.The vast majority of your posts are about attacking Fed one way or the other so it's not really surprising that you get responses from Fed fans.



Actually I don't remember ever promising anything on this forum,I usually don't make promises on an internet message board.



Whatever you say.

You are so not telling the truth in any of your responses. I can talk about Fed all I want. You're not in charge of my opinion.

What about that "accidentally" stumbled on a two year old post thing? I see you didn't address that. You didn't stumble on anything. You're just trying to help instigate because I don't like Fed. The same problem I've had with you since I've been here.

I can call a player an idiot or a loser. Where's your outrage when others do it? Many of your cohorts are downright disrespectful and you don't say one word. You defend them to the death, so spare me your...whatever it is. Why did you jump into this thread?

Tennis_Bum
05-30-2009, 09:07 PM
When is Novak's next match scheduled?

That would be Halle.

volleynets
05-30-2009, 09:13 PM
That's what you'd like, isn't it? It's the same old game. Let's attack someone who doesn't feel as we do. Let's all join in until they flee or compromise. Let's stifle the Nadal fans voices. That's what this is all about. Isn't it? Anyone who doesn't like Fed should be attacked. How sad. Unfortunately, it won't work. Sorry.

You should be ashamed for calling Djokovic an idiot just because you didn't like him yet. You say you are a fair poster but you bashed on Djoko pretty bad.

Look, I know it was two years ago. The point is that gj and NF attack Fed fans more than Fed fans attack Nadal fans. As a fan of both and an more objective voice because of that I have seen far more Fed hate posts from posters than Nadal hate posts. That said, since you are a bigtime Nadal fan you see more people attacking Nadal and you don't really see how much hate Fed gets as well.

The truth you know you would have a huge response to someone who called Nadal an idiot yet you think its okay for you to just call another player an idiot. You would not let an opinion on Nadal like go through.

People,:)Let's just all be friends.

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 09:17 PM
TheTruth isn't a troll in my opinion.

I dunno why I feel the need to say it, but there's no reason to lump all Nadal fans as trolls, just like not all Fed fans are trolls. I feel like if we get this through our thick skulls, we might be able to make this a more enjoyable place. I'm around a lot less often lately because of all the name calling and BS that comes with the territory here.

Thank you. Those are old posts, two and three years ago when I was new here and didn't totally understand you couldn't have an opinion around here.

zagor
05-30-2009, 09:20 PM
You are so not telling the truth in any of your responses. I can talk about Fed all I want. You're not in charge of my opinion.

Nope,but I can answer to your(or anyone else's)post if I want to.

What about that "accidentally" stumbled on a two year old post thing? I see you didn't address that. You didn't stumble on anything. You're just trying to help instigate because I don't like Fed. The same problem I've had with you since I've been here.

Oh I actually did stumble accidentaly upon your post in that thread a while ago.I wasn't looking for your posts,I was actually searching topics about Djokovic since I was interested what were the first impressions about him around here when he was becoming a force on tour and if anyone thought he was going to breakthrough and win a slam first or Murray and Gasquet and other youngsters.

I can call a player an idiot or a loser. Where's your outrage when others do it?

There's not really an outrage from me,I simply find it funny how you tend to look down upon other posters and criticize them so much when you were so harsh upon Novak yourself all the while claiming how you never resort to insults and namecalling on internet.But of course you can call each player whatever you want,that's your right.

Many of your cohorts are downright disrespectful and you don't say one word. You defend them to the death, so spare me your...whatever it is. Why did you jump into this thread?

Lol,my cohorts? Okay,whatever.As for why did I jump into this thread,I'm merely posting in this thread as you are.

fednad
05-30-2009, 09:24 PM
That would be Halle.

I don't get it. How come Halle?
The great soothsayers and oracles on this board had said that he would beat Roger in semi-finals and would officially be the second best claycourter in this solar system. How come he is not scheduled to play his next match in French Open????

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 09:26 PM
You should be ashamed for calling Djokovic an idiot just because you didn't like him yet. You say you are a fair poster but you bashed on Djoko pretty bad.

Look, I know it was two years ago. The point is that gj and NF attack Fed fans more than Fed fans attack Nadal fans. As a fan of both and an more objective voice because of that I have seen far more Fed hate posts from posters than Nadal hate posts. That said, since you are a bigtime Nadal fan you see more people attacking Nadal and you don't really see how much hate Fed gets as well.

The truth you know you would have a huge response to someone who called Nadal an idiot yet you think its okay for you to just call another player an idiot. You would not let an opinion on Nadal like go through.

People,:)Let's just all be friends.

Thanks for chastising me, but as much as other posters call people idiots and morons on this board I'm not buying it. When you don't say anything about all the name calling that goes on around here, and only single me out it's hard for me to take you seriously, especially regarding a three year old thread. Would you remember something you posted three years ago? If you've read this thread and don't see what they're doing...

TheTruth
05-30-2009, 09:38 PM
Nope,but I can answer to your(or anyone else's)post if I want to.



Oh I actually did stumble accidentaly upon your post in that thread a while ago.I wasn't looking for your posts,I was actually searching topics about Djokovic since I was interested what were the first impressions about him around here when he was becoming a force on tour and if anyone thought he was going to breakthrough and win a slam first or Murray and Gasquet and other youngsters.



There's not really an outrage from me,I simply find it funny how you tend to look down upon other posters and criticize them so much when you were so harsh upon Novak yourself all the while claiming how you never resort to insults and namecalling on internet.But of course you can call each player whatever you want,that's your right.



Lol,my cohorts? Okay,whatever.As for why did I jump into this thread,I'm merely posting in this thread as you are.

I know you can post to anyone you want to. I was just explaining that to Drakulie about your post about me. I agree with you on that point.

Love your long explanation about how you stumbled on my post. That was cute.

But it's funny how you don't remember stalking me on this board. Maybe the newbies don't know it, but anyone who's been around here knows what I said is the truth. And they know I've asked you on numerous occasions not to post to me since you can't understand why I don't give Fed enough credit.

Anyway, I think it's funny. A blind man can see what you, and yes your cohorts, are doing. Carry on!

grafrules
05-30-2009, 10:09 PM
Why do you people get into these childish feuds that go on for hours, days, weeks. Good grief. Nobody cares. Isnt this a forum to talk about tennis. This is even worse than the Graf-Seles feuds in the post stabbing years which I now admit I invested far more time in than I should have, but atleast then it was still a tennis related topic.

zagor
05-30-2009, 10:15 PM
Love your long explanation about how you stumbled on my post. That was cute.

Oh you don't have to believe me on that but that still doesn't change the fact that that's the way I stumbled upon that post(I was actually quite surprised when I read it to be honest).

Although you do realize that I couldn't find that 2 year old post by searching through your profile since you have over 4000 posts and this post was from 2007? But fine,believe what you want,as far as I've seen you like conspiracy theories.

But it's funny how you don't remember stalking me on this board.

Well,okay if that's your idea of stalking,alright then.The way I see it,you bashed Fed and I answered you back,the way that fans of other players here do as well.

Maybe the newbies don't know it, but anyone who's been around here knows what I said is the truth.

Oh yes,everything you say is the truth,of course.

Anyway, I think it's funny. A blind man can see what you, and yes your cohorts, are doing. Carry on!

Yes,you too,I'm done derailing this thread.

carlos djackal
05-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Well, Djoker just lost and their semi meeting will never materialize...

Blinkism
05-30-2009, 11:17 PM
Well, Djoker just lost and their semi meeting will never materialize...

exactly.

[/thread]

theduh
05-31-2009, 01:58 AM
So do you think we can all agree that the 2nd best clay courter is Fed?

crazylevity
05-31-2009, 06:03 AM
^^ There will always be people who disagree. And I respect that; it's fine by me.

One thing though, at least gj011 was right about this: the Fed-Djoker match will not decide it. Even now I think he still believes Djokovic is a better clay-courter than Federer, and he will have his rationale.

drakulie
05-31-2009, 08:50 AM
Fed is the number 1 clay courter right now, being that he dethroned Rafa on clay last week.

Being that rafa beat joker last week, that would make Nadal # 2.

Not sure who # 3 or 4 are between Joker and Murray.


Like I said earlier this week. Fed is number 1 clay courter right now. Nadal is 2nd.

fednad
05-31-2009, 09:01 AM
Like I said earlier this week. Fed is number 1 clay courter right now. Nadal is 2nd.

So you are logged on right now
You must be trolling galore right now Drake ....heehee
I surely am. I am going to revive the "unexhaust nadal" thread. It hjas so much relevance right now....heeeheee

theduh
05-31-2009, 09:07 AM
^^ There will always be people who disagree. And I respect that; it's fine by me.

One thing though, at least gj011 was right about this: the Fed-Djoker match will not decide it. Even now I think he still believes Djokovic is a better clay-courter than Federer, and he will have his rationale.

I also respect that and know for a fact that there will be people that would disagree. However lets see Fed and Novak's clay court career, and by it lets decide who is better.

rommil
05-31-2009, 09:07 AM
Like I said earlier this week. Fed is number 1 clay courter right now. Nadal is 2nd.

Sorry to break it to you Drak but now it goes this way "SODERLING, KING of CLAY".......lol

theduh
05-31-2009, 09:10 AM
Sorry to break it to you Drak but now it goes this way "SODERLING, KING of CLAY".......lol

blasphemy! LOL!

rommil
05-31-2009, 09:11 AM
When this French Open will be said and done, the clay heirarchy will look like this:

Soderling
Federer
Roddick
Nadal
Kohlschrieber


LOL

drakulie
06-08-2009, 09:09 AM
Fed is the number 1 clay courter right now, being that he dethroned Rafa on clay last week.

Being that rafa beat joker last week, that would make Nadal # 2.

Not sure who # 3 or 4 are between Joker and Murray.



We all know who the best clay courter is (Federer), so.................

........was it ever decided who the number 2 player on clay is this year??? Nadal, Joker, Murray, Soderling, Delpotro????

rommil
06-08-2009, 09:13 AM
We all know who the best clay courter is (Federer), so.................

........was it ever decided who the number 2 player on clay is this year??? Nadal, Joker, Murray, Soderling, Delpotro????

Oh they can fight for it next year(whoever is able to show up).

nikdom
06-08-2009, 09:17 AM
2. Soderling
3. Gonzo and Del Potro
4. Monfils, Davydenko, Robredo
5. Haas....
.....

.....
x. Nadal
y. Djokovic

If you go just based on when someone lost out of the FO. :)