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View Full Version : When they gona stop players abusing 25 sec rule?


MrAWD
05-26-2009, 04:17 PM
It is kind of sad that so many of top guys abusing this rule and nobody seem to be doing anything about this! To me either take to rule out if you are not going to enforce it or start taking the points against the abusers!

What do you think?

Fedja

Serendipitous
05-26-2009, 04:20 PM
They will never stop unless they are given point penalties.

woodrow1029
05-26-2009, 04:23 PM
Another thread on this topic?

To make it better for you, if you are talking about Roland Garros, the server only gets 20 secs, not 25.

OrangePower
05-26-2009, 04:33 PM
There needs to be a 'shot clock' like in basketball. It would start counting down (from 25 or 20 depending on the tournament rules) as soon as a point ends (ball hits the net, bounces out, or second bounce). If it gets to zero, there should be a buzzer or something, otherwise it would be deactivated as soon as the server strikes the ball to start the next point.

Initially the umpire could give warnings if the buzzer sounds, but after a few warnings, there should be point penalties. And over time as players get used to this system, maybe even do away with warnings and go straight to loss of point.

The advantages would be speeding up the game, and establishing a fair and level playing field for all players. Also, this could be exciting for the fans (make the clock easily visible to fans like the basketball shot clock, so there is some added drama if/as it gets close to zero.

This is all easily done with existing technology - all it would take to implement is the will to do so.

Pancho G
05-26-2009, 05:05 PM
I'm sure this has been discussed, but unless you're on the forum every day, the post might get really low.

I also am disgusted by this. I think Nadal might not be number 1 if he had to play by the rules. In fact, I don't think he would be. Novak would probably also only be top 10.

I watched Sampras against Rafter recently in a Senior's Match and it was so nice to watch tennis instead of all the preparing to serve time.

How can our voice be heard!!!

bluetrain4
05-26-2009, 05:12 PM
I don't think they will ever uniformly enforce the rule. I can see if a player is taking a ton of time AND his opponent is complaining, then maybe. But, otherwise, the refs seems to allow the match to play itself out as is and don't interrupt the flow of the match.

Late in matches, the opponent never seems to care about the server's extra time because it allows them to rest as well.

I realize it is an actual rule, but I'm wondering why some TWers obsess about it? If anyone should care it should be the players.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 05:13 PM
20 seconds seems a bit short even for professionals. Why don't they just increase to 30-35 seconds and then really enforce it.

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 05:27 PM
Considering how the game is power base lining and not serve and volley the ATP should have looked into this a long time ago and increased the time. But who cares? Especially when Nadal and Djokovic give us the most enthralling, exciting matches on tour!

Serve_Ace
05-26-2009, 05:30 PM
Yup. when I want to see butt picking action and medical time out action, it is pretty exciting watch him pick that butt or sit around and moan

Serendipitous
05-26-2009, 05:32 PM
Yup. when I want to see butt picking action and medical time out action, it is pretty exciting watch him pick that butt or sit around and moan


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4jUGufaJek

bruce38
05-26-2009, 05:33 PM
Considering how the game is power base lining and not serve and volley the ATP should have looked into this a long time ago and increased the time. But who cares? Especially when Nadal and Djokovic give us the most enthralling, exciting matches on tour!

Would be even more exciting if they didn't cheat, no?

Serve_Ace
05-26-2009, 05:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4jUGufaJek

I'm about to go rub one off with that video.

sh@de
05-26-2009, 06:43 PM
URGH nasty vid Serendipitous :p. I think players should stop taking too much time as well, but saying that Nadal and Djokovic wouldn't be where they are if they took less time in between points is a bit far fetched...

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 09:00 PM
Would be even more exciting if they didn't cheat, no?

I'll take your version of "cheating" over an insensitive, cruel blowhard any day.

Nadal_Freak
05-26-2009, 09:01 PM
When will people stop whining about this rule? It is not meant to be strictly enforced but a boundary to what a reasonable time is.

ninman
05-26-2009, 09:04 PM
I'll take your version of "cheating" over an insensitive, cruel blowhard any day.

http://img2.cdn.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4/ab001bd980b901e0440181f1c32634761226380963_full.jp g

bruce38
05-26-2009, 09:05 PM
I'll take your version of "cheating" over an insensitive, cruel blowhard any day.

But why put cheating in quotes? Call it what it is. Breaking the rules and getting away with it. Facts are facts, you can't always lead with irrational emotion as a platform for your views.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 09:06 PM
When will people stop whining about this rule? It is not meant to be strictly enforced but a boundary to what a reasonable time is.

A rule by definition is supposed to be enforced.

ronalditop
05-26-2009, 09:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4jUGufaJek

i wonder if his opponents would like to shake hands with him at the end of the match after watching this clip.

msc886
05-26-2009, 09:09 PM
When will people stop whining about this rule? It is not meant to be strictly enforced but a boundary to what a reasonable time is.

When are people gonna stop whining about Federer's arrogance?

ninman
05-26-2009, 09:11 PM
When are people gonna stop whining about Federer's arrogance?

I'm gonna guess....never.

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 09:17 PM
http://img2.cdn.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4/ab001bd980b901e0440181f1c32634761226380963_full.jp g

I think these graphics are goofy. I'm always trying to see the humor in them.

But, I don't. These and the owned, and pwned posts seem so silly to me. But, thanks anyway.

ninman
05-26-2009, 09:19 PM
I think these graphics are goofy. I'm always trying to see the humor in them.

But, I don't. These and the owned, and pwned posts seem so silly to me. But, thanks anyway.

Yes, but constantly calling Federer arrogant, a liar, a blowhard, a whiner among other things isn't?

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 09:21 PM
But why put cheating in quotes? Call it what it is. Breaking the rules and getting away with it. Facts are facts, you can't always lead with irrational emotion as a platform for your views.

Cause it's a poor excuse for cheating if you ask me. I think many Fed Fans are hurt because their boy isn't #1 anymore, just came out of a slump, and is being challenged by Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic. I think the fact that Federer just won over Nadal has brought about a lot of trollish behaviour from fanboys, those are the facts.

Irrational emotion? Care to produce a sample? Lol!

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 09:25 PM
Yes, but constantly calling Federer arrogant, a liar, a blowhard, a whiner among other things isn't?

And your fanboys constantly calling Nadal a cheater, a topspin monkey with an ugly game is ok? It's so funny how you guys come a-running when someone says something about Federer, but you have a bona fide roasting when someone says something negative about Nadal. Those threads go on forever.

I can take it. Can you?

bruce38
05-26-2009, 09:26 PM
Cause it's a poor excuse for cheating if you ask me. I think many Fed Fans are hurt because their boy isn't #1 anymore, just came out of a slump, and is being challenged by Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic. I think the fact that Federer just won over Nadal has brought about a lot of trollish behaviour from fanboys, those are the facts.

Irrational emotion? Care to produce a sample? Lol!

No such thing as an excuse for cheating. It either is cheating or is not. There is a rule. It is broken without penalty. Do you not agree this is cheating? Give your answer on the facts, not your feelings or support for Nadal. And why does trollish behavior concern you from any of the camps? That you mention it shows it bothers you and really says more about you than the trolls.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 09:27 PM
.

Irrational emotion? Care to produce a sample? Lol!

Your inability to see it as cheating is a perfect example.:) Try a little more introspection.

ninman
05-26-2009, 09:30 PM
And your fanboys constantly calling Nadal a cheater, a topspin monkey with an ugly game is ok? It's so funny how you guys come a-running when someone says something about Federer, but you have a bona fide roasting when someone says something negative about Nadal. Those threads go on forever.

I can take it. Can you?

Show me one post where I've called a Nadal a topspin monkey with an ugly game. He breaks the rules all the time, that's a fact, and it's cheating. But I'm not going to diss his style of play simply because he wins with it.

bluetrain4
05-26-2009, 09:33 PM
Technically, don't they need to post or call the actual time for the players to be affirmatively cheating.

Obviously, if a player is taking a minute between points, we can safely assume that he or she knows they are over the time limit.

But, if he or she is taking 30 or 35 seconds, without being notified that they are over the 25 seconds, is that really "cheating?"

As cynical as it may sound, I think it is more up to the refs to enforce the rule than the players to dutifully follow it if they are not being called on it.

Defcon
05-26-2009, 09:36 PM
The facts are as follows -

1. There is a 20s time limit rule (as well as playing to the server's pace when receiving)
2. Some players, like Nadal and Djoker, regularly abuse it. Amongst other rules like the medical timeout.
3. Yes, abuse is the right word.
4. The officials are too scared to enforce the rule beyond the token warning once every 15 years. As Mats would say, they lack the ba*ls.
5. Players who don't abuse the rules and play within time limits, like Roddick, Fed and many others, are at a disadvantage.

You can now resume your regularly scheduled twisted interpretation of rules and the irrational defense of cheating.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 09:37 PM
Technically, don't they need to post or call the actual time for the players to be affirmatively cheating.

Obviously, if a player is taking a minute between points, we can safely assume that he or she knows they are over the time limit.

But, if he or she is taking 30 or 35 seconds, without being notified that they are over the 25 seconds, is that really "cheating?"

As cynical as it may sound, I think it is more up to the refs to enforce the rule than the players to dutifully follow it if they are not being called on it.

Yes I agree with you, it should be up to the refs. Problem is how is a ref going to say this to the top players in the world? Moreover, it is cheating from the perspective that it cheats the players that are not taking the extra time. And noticing 35 seconds when the limit is 20 seconds (in the FO), is pretty easy for most.

ninman
05-26-2009, 09:40 PM
Technically, don't they need to post or call the actual time for the players to be affirmatively cheating.

Obviously, if a player is taking a minute between points, we can safely assume that he or she knows they are over the time limit.

But, if he or she is taking 30 or 35 seconds, without being notified that they are over the 25 seconds, is that really "cheating?"

As cynical as it may sound, I think it is more up to the refs to enforce the rule than the players to dutifully follow it if they are not being called on it.

The point is that when a point is over you are simply meant to collect two balls and serve. Players like Rafa spend a great deal of time doing irrelevant things, such as carefully examining the balls to get the fluffiest ones, picking pants, cleaning line, bouncing the ball loads of times, standing there "concentrating" for a prolonged period of time and so on.

Compare that to players like Federer and Roddick who do exactly as they are supposed to. Collect two balls and serve, no messing around, no time wasting, just getting on with playing.

Before the Madrid final when Federer was asked about Nadal's 4 hour epic with Djokovic, he replied "yeah but these guys take a long time between points" or words to that effect.

I actually did a rough calculation, the Nadal Djokovic match lasted 243 minutes, during which they played 245 points and had 14, 90 second change of ends. If both players averaged around 30 seconds between points, that means they spent a total of rougly 90-100 minutes actually playing tennis. So that means that for 2/3 of the match they were basically standing around or sitting around doing nothing.

Defcon
05-26-2009, 09:42 PM
As cynical as it may sound, I think it is more up to the refs to enforce the rule than the players to dutifully follow it if they are not being called on it.

Technically, yes. You could even saw that players who break the rule deliberately, knowing that its never enforced, are smarter than those who follow it. And believe me, if someone takes an avg of 30s, they know.

Ethically, I think this disregard for rules is shameful.

Let me make a massive exaggeration here - its a bit like murdering your neighbor to steal her cookies because your country is experiencing mass genocide and you know there's no police.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Time lengths of matches are essentially meaningless without rules being consistently enforced. Might as well be using different definitions of time for each match

bluetrain4
05-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Yes I agree with you, it should be up to the refs. Problem is how is a ref going to say this to the top players in the world? Moreover, it is cheating from the perspective that it cheats the players that are not taking the extra time. And noticing 35 seconds when the limit is 20 seconds (in the FO), is pretty easy for most.

I agree with you. Most players probably know when they are 15 seconds over. But, I believe there are probably a lot of innocent 5-10 second violations and probably a few geuine violations a couple of seconds longer.

I agree with the earlier poster who said increase the limit to 30 seconds and enforce it strictly.

I just don't believe that stalling players will ever do it on their own. Let's face it, a lot of people tend to do as much as they can get away with.

Defcon
05-26-2009, 09:44 PM
I actually did a rough calculation, the Nadal Djokovic match lasted 243 minutes, during which they played 245 points and had 14, 90 second change of ends. If both players averaged around 30 seconds between points, that means they spent a total of rougly 90-100 minutes actually playing tennis. So that means that for 2/3 of the match they were basically standing around or sitting around doing nothing.

Exactly. Which is why all the 'tired' arguments are well. a bit tired.

bruce38
05-26-2009, 09:48 PM
I agree with you. Most players probably know when they are 15 seconds over. But, I believe there are probably a lot of innocent 5-10 second violations and probably a few geuine violations a couple of seconds longer.

I agree with the earlier poster who said increase the limit to 30 seconds and enforce it strictly.

I just don't believe that stalling players will ever do it on their own. Let's face it, a lot of people tend to do as much as they can get away with.

That earlier poster was also me :). But I think we all agree, either the rules have to change or they have to be enforced. Can't leave something like this up to the players. Moreover we shouldn't blame all of the players for what a few notable examples are getting away with. That they are the cream of the crop players doing this is however, a bit disconcerting.

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 09:53 PM
Show me one post where I've called a Nadal a topspin monkey with an ugly game. He breaks the rules all the time, that's a fact, and it's cheating. But I'm not going to diss his style of play simply because he wins with it.

My post said your fanboys.

But, I don't see you running around chastising them.

So, if you can look the other way with all the abuse that goes on on this board, well...

And what do you really care what I think about Federer anyway?

sh@de
05-26-2009, 09:56 PM
And your fanboys constantly calling Nadal a cheater, a topspin monkey with an ugly game is ok? It's so funny how you guys come a-running when someone says something about Federer, but you have a bona fide roasting when someone says something negative about Nadal. Those threads go on forever.

I can take it. Can you?

I agree with the truth.

Docalex007
05-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Matches would go by much more quickly if everyone served at the pace of James Blake.

Yesterday... the guy literally took 10 seconds between points. Never that quick of a pace before.

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 10:01 PM
When will people stop whining about this rule? It is not meant to be strictly enforced but a boundary to what a reasonable time is.

The better question is when will this "rule" be applied to the entire tour? Why the singling out of Nadal and Djokovic? Many people take their time choosing the right ball (Pete was notorious for this). I don't recall anyone ever accusing him of cheating.

Wish I had time to sit and clock every player on tour, but sadly I don't.

ninman
05-26-2009, 10:01 PM
My post said your fanboys.

But, I don't see you running around chastising them.

So, if you can look the other way with all the abuse that goes on on this board, well...

And what do you really care what I think about Federer anyway?

Mostly because threads involving Nadal don't interest me all that much. I don't particularly care what you think about Federer, but give credit where credit is due, the man is an awesome tennis player.

gj011
05-26-2009, 10:01 PM
Just to say that Federer constantly abuses injury timeouts. (AO 2008 vs Tipsarevic, TMC 2008 vs Murray, ...).

One of the worst cheaters in that regard. He would have lost the match against Tipsarevic if he didn't take an injury timeout to clip his nails :shock: after falling back 1 sets to 2, and running around the court like a rabbit after. He clearly abused that timeout to break Tipsarevic's momentum. Simply appalling.

Not to mention the other incidents.

ninman
05-26-2009, 10:03 PM
The better question is when will this "rule" be applied to the entire tour? Why the singling out of Nadal and Djokovic? Many people take their time choosing the right ball (Pete was notorious for this). I don't recall anyone ever accusing him of cheating.

Wish I had time to sit and clock every player on tour, but sadly I don't.

I think the answer to that is obvious, they are number 1 and 4 in the world, they set an example for the rest of the tour. But you are absoloutely right, the rules apply to every player on tour, not just two.

ninman
05-26-2009, 10:04 PM
Just to say that Federer constantly abuses injury timeouts. (AO 2008 vs Tipsarevic, TMC 2008 vs Murray, ...).

One of the worst cheaters in that regard. He would have lost the match against Tipsarevic if he didn't take an injury timeout to clip his nails :shock: after falling back 1 sets to 2, and running around the court like a rabbit after. He clearly abused that timeout to break Tipsarevic's momentum. Simply appalling.

Not to mention the other incidents.

I should've saved this for you.

http://img2.cdn.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4/ab001bd980b901e0440181f1c32634761226380963_full.jp g

volleynets
05-26-2009, 10:07 PM
Just to say that Federer constantly abuses injury timeouts. (AO 2008 vs Tipsarevic, TMC 2008 vs Murray, ...).

One of the worst cheaters in that regard. He would have lost the match against Tipsarevic if he didn't take an injury timeout to clip his nails :shock: after falling back 1 sets to 2, and running around the court like a rabbit after. He clearly abused that timeout to break Tipsarevic's momentum. Simply appalling.

Not to mention the other incidents.

Federer doesn't do this in every single match though. Nadal typically does this many times during every match and that is the truth. You listed only two examples per last year. Anyone could list 20-30 examples per Nadal match. People would quit whining about this if Nadal didn't do it.

BigServer1
05-26-2009, 10:07 PM
Just to say that Federer constantly abuses injury timeouts. (AO 2008 vs Tipsarevic, TMC 2008 vs Murray, ...).

One of the worst cheaters in that regard. He would have lost the match against Tipsarevic if he didn't take an injury timeout to clip his nails :shock: after falling back 1 sets to 2, and running around the court like a rabbit after. He clearly abused that timeout to break Tipsarevic's momentum. Simply appalling.

Not to mention the other incidents.

Wait...Wait...Hold up. A DJOKOVIC fan is getting on Fed for abusing injury timeouts?

Your ridiculousness knows no bounds.

jamesblakefan#1
05-26-2009, 10:15 PM
Just to say that Federer constantly abuses injury timeouts. (AO 2008 vs Tipsarevic, TMC 2008 vs Murray, ...).

One of the worst cheaters in that regard. He would have lost the match against Tipsarevic if he didn't take an injury timeout to clip his nails :shock: after falling back 1 sets to 2, and running around the court like a rabbit after. He clearly abused that timeout to break Tipsarevic's momentum. Simply appalling.

Not to mention the other incidents.

I guess we all know what gj stands for...GREAT JOB!!! not

And I guess the 011 is your IQ. Now it makes perfect sense. Talk about trolling. Calling Federer a cheater is the ultimate in trolling. And yet you say I don't know what cheating is in another thread. Talk about hypocracy.

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Mostly because threads involving Nadal don't interest me all that much. I don't particularly care what you think about Federer, but give credit where credit is due, the man is an awesome tennis player.

If you don't care what I think about Federer why are you posting to me with a list of things I 've said about Federer? (This is where I need one of those FAIL graphics, if I was the type of person to use them).

Give credit where credit is due? He's an awesome player?

That's your opinion. I don't have to share it.

Do you even see what you're saying?

Paraphrases:

1. You say mean things about Federer.
2. But, I don't care what you think.
3. Give Federer credit, he's an awesome tennis player (why do I have to give him credit? I don't even like him. Roddick may be a great server, but I don't like him either.) Is that a crime?

Regardles of who I'm a fan of, I would never try to chastise another poster because they don't agree with me, or see things my way. This is an opinion board, everyone is entitled to differ with your views.

TheTruth
05-26-2009, 10:22 PM
I think the answer to that is obvious, they are number 1 and 4 in the world, they set an example for the rest of the tour. But you are absoloutely right, the rules apply to every player on tour, not just two.

Well, we'll have to respectfully disagree on this one (and I do respect you as a poster), but counting seconds is beyond trivial to me. I can't get into that mindset at all. Thank God!

Deuce
05-26-2009, 10:44 PM
There needs to be a 'shot clock' like in basketball. It would start counting down (from 25 or 20 depending on the tournament rules) as soon as a point ends (ball hits the net, bounces out, or second bounce). If it gets to zero, there should be a buzzer or something, otherwise it would be deactivated as soon as the server strikes the ball to start the next point.

Initially the umpire could give warnings if the buzzer sounds, but after a few warnings, there should be point penalties. And over time as players get used to this system, maybe even do away with warnings and go straight to loss of point.

The advantages would be speeding up the game, and establishing a fair and level playing field for all players. Also, this could be exciting for the fans (make the clock easily visible to fans like the basketball shot clock, so there is some added drama if/as it gets close to zero.

This is all easily done with existing technology - all it would take to implement is the will to do so.
^ That's essentially what I was going to write.
I did a search for the word 'clock' to see if anyone else had mentioned the idea.
Obviously, someone had.
So all that's left for me to do is to agree with it.

gj011
05-26-2009, 10:52 PM
Shot clock is the most stupid and ridiculous idea. It would completely ruin the game.

mandy01
05-26-2009, 10:55 PM
Well the rule needs to be enforced and breaking the rule so often in inexcusable IMO but highly doubt anybody breaks it on purpose.I guess the natural routine of players plays a part there but yes,I do think players should follow the rule because its there for a reason.

Deuce
05-26-2009, 11:08 PM
Shot clock is the most stupid and ridiculous idea. It would completely ruin the game.
^ And your alternative idea is...

It seems you forgot to include YOUR idea as to how a person can be made aware of time elapsing and approaching the time limit without an indicator of the elapsed time.

sh@de
05-26-2009, 11:22 PM
I guess we all know what gj stands for...GREAT JOB!!! not

And I guess the 011 is your IQ. Now it makes perfect sense. Talk about trolling. Calling Federer a cheater is the ultimate in trolling. And yet you say I don't know what cheating is in another thread. Talk about hypocracy.

AHAHHAHA you made me laugh out loud xDDD

tennisplaya
05-27-2009, 12:19 AM
It is kind of sad that so many of top guys abusing this rule and nobody seem to be doing anything about this! To me either take to rule out if you are not going to enforce it or start taking the points against the abusers!

What do you think?

Fedja


I think this thread is redundant and this thread should be merged with this existing thread: Time Violations (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=261664)

ninman
05-27-2009, 01:17 AM
Well, we'll have to respectfully disagree on this one (and I do respect you as a poster), but counting seconds is beyond trivial to me. I can't get into that mindset at all. Thank God!

Let me put it this way, if we assume that Nadal and Djokovic spent 100 minutes playing tennis during their four hour match, add 20 minutes on for the change of ends, which is obviously something they have to do. Lets suppose that both players averaged 20 seconds between points, instead of 30. That means that their 4 hour match would have lasted less than 3.

So in fact those "few seconds" that you don't care about, yes you're right a few seconds is a few seconds, but if you look at the WHOLE match those 10 seconds that both players were taking over their allotted time, meant that the match lasted 1 hour longer than it needed to.

vtmike
05-27-2009, 04:25 AM
I'll take your version of "cheating" over an insensitive, cruel blowhard any day.

Just to say that Federer constantly abuses injury timeouts. (AO 2008 vs Tipsarevic, TMC 2008 vs Murray, ...).

One of the worst cheaters in that regard. He would have lost the match against Tipsarevic if he didn't take an injury timeout to clip his nails :shock: after falling back 1 sets to 2, and running around the court like a rabbit after. He clearly abused that timeout to break Tipsarevic's momentum. Simply appalling.

Not to mention the other incidents.

http://thesituationist.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/media-bias1.jpg

jelle v
05-27-2009, 04:33 AM
Taking longer than 25 seconds never bothers me when watching tennis.. don't understand why this is such a hot issue.

Sometimes however, players are obviously stalling the break the opponents rhythm. if that is the case, I think an umpire should enforce the rule.

vtmike
05-27-2009, 04:49 AM
Taking longer than 25 seconds never bothers me when watching tennis.. don't understand why this is such a hot issue.

Sometimes however, players are obviously stalling the break the opponents rhythm. if that is the case, I think an umpire should enforce the rule.

Its simple...If you are playing with an opponent that is taking as much time as you do, then its ok...but if the other player is sticking to the rules and you are not, then that gives him an unfair advantage...So to avoid all confusion, its best to just enforce the rule strictly to all players!

mandy01
05-27-2009, 05:50 AM
Its simple...If you are playing with an opponent that is taking as much time as you do, then its ok...but if the other player is sticking to the rules and you are not, then that gives him an unfair advantage...So to avoid all confusion, its best to just enforce the rule strictly to all players! True.No matter how trivial it may look it is meant to be followed and should be enforced.Of course I still cant understand why players have to take forever to serve and I do believe they should consciously practice following the rule.They're not kids and the umpire is not their mommy to tell them off every single time.But if your opponent is following the rule and you are not , its definitely unfair.

Solomon
05-27-2009, 06:06 AM
I don't think it's a huge difference--but that being said, rules are rules. I think perhaps they should increase the time limit by 5 seconds or so, and then enforce it.

It is not as though Nadal or Djoker are doing it for harm, it is just the fact that their little "ritual" to become focused in longer than others.

This is one of the few things that I believe many people get on Nadal for and are incorrect about.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 06:11 AM
This is one of the few things that I believe many people get on Nadal for and are incorrect about.


How are they incorrect for getting on him, or anyone else for abusing the rules???

ninman
05-27-2009, 06:13 AM
How are they incorrect for getting on him, or anyone else for abusing the rules???

Because they're picking on him. Leave the poor boy alone, if he wants to play with his *** the entire match then let him. Jeesh.

Solomon
05-27-2009, 06:15 AM
How are they incorrect for getting on him, or anyone else for abusing the rules???

Abuse, if you ask me, is the wrong word. It would be abuse if they are repeatedly reminded, and continue. But when nobody ever tells them they are going over the limit, I'm sure they are focused on other things, not on how long they are taking to serve.

I believe it should be the ref's job to make sure they don't take too long, and not the players' fault.

mandy01
05-27-2009, 06:17 AM
Abuse, if you ask me, is the wrong word. It would be abuse if they are repeatedly reminded, and continue. But when nobody ever tells them they are going over the limit, I'm sure they are focused on other things, not on how long they are taking to serve.

I believe it should be the ref's job to make sure they don't take too long, and not the players' fault. True.But its not like they havent bee warned before.They're not newbies on tour .Taking a long time to serve sometimes is OK.But doing it repeatedly is not whether done on purpose or not.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 07:14 AM
Abuse, if you ask me, is the wrong word. It would be abuse if they are repeatedly reminded, and continue.

You are proposing that they don't know the rules. If this were the case, then I could agree with you. However, they very well know the rules. Have been playing professional tennis for a long time, so their should be no excuse. They fact they do it repeatedly, and know they are violating the rule each and every time, is **abuse** of the rule. To add, the fact they know they won't be called on it by chair umps is highlights this fact even more.

Kind of like the saying>>>> if you give a foot, they want to take 3. Well, they are way beyond this.


But when nobody ever tells them they are going over the limit, I'm sure they are focused on other things, not on how long they are taking to serve.

Then how do you explain the fact that when they step up to the service line, they make sure to keep their feet behind it when serving??? I don't see any chair umps reminding them after each and every point to make sure not to foot fault.


I believe it should be the ref's job to make sure they don't take too long, and not the players' fault.


Here, I agree. However, it doesn't somehow make them to be "non-abusers" of the rules.

sureshs
05-27-2009, 07:18 AM
It will change only if there is pressure from TV channels to speed up the game. They control the financial angle, and will make the governing bodies listen, who in turn will make the refs implement the rules. Nadal is not going to speed it up because a few people post about it here.

Andres
05-27-2009, 07:27 AM
And your fanboys constantly calling Nadal a cheater, a topspin monkey with an ugly game is ok? It's so funny how you guys come a-running when someone says something about Federer, but you have a bona fide roasting when someone says something negative about Nadal. Those threads go on forever.

I can take it. Can you?
LOL! Topspin monkey. I haven't heard that one in years :D

bruce38
05-27-2009, 08:17 AM
How about this as a solution. No shot clock, that would be dumb. But every tenth (or 15th) time you go over the limit, you get penalized a point. Referee or computer keeps track of time. This way players who occasionally go over without intention, don't get penalized (that often). But players who do it consistently (whether or intentional or not), get penalized. Over time, these players will adapt to staying within the time limits.

pennc94
05-27-2009, 08:21 AM
How about this as a solution. No shot clock, that would be dumb. But every tenth (or 15th) time you go over the limit, you get penalized a point. Referee or computer keeps track of time. This way players who occasionally go over without intention, don't get penalized (that often). But players who do it consistently (whether or intentional or not), get penalized. Over time, these players will adapt to staying within the time limits.

I like where you are going here, but there are some problems. You still need the clock (visible) so that the 10 or 15 infractions can be independently observed. What happens if the 10th or 15th infraction happens unintentionally (e.g. player falls and takes some time to get up, etc.)?

drakulie
05-27-2009, 08:50 AM
How about this as a solution. No shot clock, that would be dumb. But every tenth (or 15th) time you go over the limit, you get penalized a point. Referee or computer keeps track of time. This way players who occasionally go over without intention, don't get penalized (that often). But players who do it consistently (whether or intentional or not), get penalized. Over time, these players will adapt to staying within the time limits.

How about this as a solution,,,,,,, when the player violates the rules, he is consequenced according to the rule. Once they do it the first time, and are consequenced for it>>> they'll stop doing it. The same way they don't foot fault 25 times in a match, because they are called on it immediately when it happens.

sureshs
05-27-2009, 08:55 AM
How about this as a solution,,,,,,, when the player violates the rules, he is consequenced according to the rule. Once they do it the first time, and are consequenced for it>>> they'll stop doing it. The same way they don't foot fault 25 times in a match, because they are called on it immediately when it happens.

That means using a clock. I don't think it fits within the spirit of racquet sports. No racquet sport uses a clock. It is an annoying thing for a player to keep in mind and takes away from the rhythm of the game and discretion of the referee.

ninman
05-27-2009, 09:05 AM
That means using a clock. I don't think it fits within the spirit of racquet sports. No racquet sport uses a clock. It is an annoying thing for a player to keep in mind and takes away from the rhythm of the game and discretion of the referee.

What's wrong with the umpire having a stop watch?

sureshs
05-27-2009, 09:08 AM
What's wrong with the umpire having a stop watch?

What is wrong with a guy standing at every block checking if you are going 1 mph over the speed limit?

ninman
05-27-2009, 09:10 AM
What is wrong with a guy standing at every block checking if you are going 1 mph over the speed limit?

I don't know quite how to answer that. It's so fallacious and ridiculous that I'm actually lost for words.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 09:12 AM
That means using a clock.

stopwatch????? BY the way, chair umps do use these, in case you weren't aware.


I don't think it fits within the spirit of racquet sports. No racquet sport uses a clock.

well, the powers that be disagree with you because they put "time" in the rules.

To add, if it doesn't fit within the "spirit of tennis" then they wouldn't have start times. ie, the player could show up to the match whatever time (day/date) they feel fit.

sureshs
05-27-2009, 09:14 AM
I don't know quite how to answer that. It's so fallacious and ridiculous that I'm actually lost for words.

Exactly. Just like you don't like someone to clock every action of your life and impose a rule, professional players may not like it either. If you have a half hour or one hour lunch break, have you never gone 5 minutes over? Don't you check your personal email at work?

It is best left to the referees to judge if there is too much time being taken.

sureshs
05-27-2009, 09:15 AM
stopwatch????? BY the way, chair umps do use these, in case you weren't aware.




well, the powers that be disagree with you because they put "time" in the rules.

To add, if it doesn't fit within the "spirit of tennis" then they wouldn't have start times. ie, the player could show up to the match whatever time (day/date) they feel fit.

No racquet sport uses a clock. The statement is still valid.

l_gonzalez
05-27-2009, 09:19 AM
it should be 25 seconds for all tourneys and properly enforced but also letting common sense prevail.... If you have a gruesome 35 shot point then it's at the umpire's discretion to allow the players a little extra time. Simple as that.

If a player goes over the 25 second limit unnecesarily, then the umpire should give them a warning, even if it's the 1st point of the match. players will stop abusing and get used to it very quickly.

if you're not gonna enforce the rules then you might as well scrap them and let it be a free for all.

l_gonzalez
05-27-2009, 09:21 AM
Exactly. Just like you don't like someone to clock every action of your life and impose a rule, professional players may not like it either. If you have a half hour or one hour lunch break, have you never gone 5 minutes over? Don't you check your personal email at work?

It is best left to the referees to judge if there is too much time being taken.

you may have a point there, so the problem is not the players, it's the fact that the umpires are blatantly letting players waste time and abuse the 25 sec rule.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 09:23 AM
It is best left to the referees to judge if there is too much time being taken.

No. It is best for the referees/judges to enforce the rules already in existence Could you imagine nadal_freak/veroniuquem chairing a nadal match??? :roll:

rules exist, and chair umps are there to make sure each player is playing within those rules without prejudice.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 09:23 AM
That means using a clock. I don't think it fits within the spirit of racquet sports. No racquet sport uses a clock. It is an annoying thing for a player to keep in mind and takes away from the rhythm of the game and discretion of the referee.

C'mon they must already use a clock. How else are they able to call out infractions in the rare times that they do? I'm not saying the clock has to be visible to the players. But a computer or ref must have access to it.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 09:25 AM
How about this as a solution,,,,,,, when the player violates the rules, he is consequenced according to the rule. Once they do it the first time, and are consequenced for it>>> they'll stop doing it. The same way they don't foot fault 25 times in a match, because they are called on it immediately when it happens.

Yes that would be ideal. But it's simply not realistic and it's not going to happen. So we need to find a compromising solution where people will be able to adjust gradually over time.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 09:27 AM
I like where you are going here, but there are some problems. You still need the clock (visible) so that the 10 or 15 infractions can be independently observed. What happens if the 10th or 15th infraction happens unintentionally (e.g. player falls and takes some time to get up, etc.)?

Why do you need it visible? You've seen the matches where players do get called for time violations. The ref has a clock, but the players don't see it. But the players obviously know what is too much time and what is not. Over time they will gradually adapt to the correct amount of time. I mean what the hell is it with bouncing the ball 20 times before serve? That is completely useless and should be removed.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 09:29 AM
Exactly. Just like you don't like someone to clock every action of your life and impose a rule, professional players may not like it either. If you have a half hour or one hour lunch break, have you never gone 5 minutes over? Don't you check your personal email at work?

It is best left to the referees to judge if there is too much time being taken.

Problem is, umps aren't doing a good job. This is why this thread exists.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 09:37 AM
Yes that would be ideal. But it's simply not realistic and it's not going to happen. So we need to find a compromising solution where people will be able to adjust gradually over time.

I'm going to use one player (Nadal) as my example, although many other abuse this rule. Nadal is going to be 23 years old, and has been playing tennis for about 16??? of those years.

You tellilng me 16 years isn't enough time for him to get thru his head that he needs to play within the rules of the game that have existed since his birth???

There already is a "compromising solution">>>

Let the players play, and the chair umps enforce the rules that are already in existence.

This crap is not getting out of hand, but is already well beyond out of hand.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 09:41 AM
I'm going to use one player (Nadal) as my example, although many other abuse this rule. Nadal is going to be 23 years old, and has been playing tennis for about 16??? of those years.

You tellilng me 16 years isn't enough time for him to get thru his head that he needs to play within the rules of the game that have existed since his birth???

There already is a "compromising solution">>>

Let the players play, and the chair umps enforce the rules that are already in existence.

This crap is not getting out of hand, but is already well beyond out of hand.

No it's not enough time, because in those 16 years he must have continually abused the time limit without consequence. He was "allowed" to do this. So effectively for his state of mind for game play, no such rules existed even if he knew they existed on paper. And sure of course we WANT to see the rules enforced. But can't you see that it won't happen?

vtmike
05-27-2009, 09:46 AM
No it's not enough time, because in those 16 years he must have continually abused the time limit without consequence. He was "allowed" to do this. So effectively for his state of mind for game play, no such rules existed even if he knew they existed on paper. And sure of course we WANT to see the rules enforced. But can't you see that it won't happen?

Well none of the ATP players had the time limit rule enforced on them growing up...I am sure they had to adjust to abide by the rules! Why should Nadal be an exception? Why should they bend the rules to give Nadal time to "adjust"?

bruce38
05-27-2009, 09:48 AM
Well none of the ATP players had the time limit rule enforced on them growing up...I am sure they had to adjust to abide by the rules! Why should Nadal be an exception? Why should they bend the rules to give Nadal time to "adjust"?

Because it's not just Nadal. It's many others. The solution to quitting smoking is generally not cold turkey for most people. Gradual weaning has much higher success rates.

vtmike
05-27-2009, 09:51 AM
Because it's not just Nadal. It's many others. The solution to quitting smoking is generally not cold turkey for most people. Gradual weaning has much higher success rates.

Are you comparing smoking with time wasting on the tennis court? :-? Comeon!! Smoking is a personal preference whereas tennis is a professional sport!

Well anyways if Nadal & others are so addicted to it, they should be sent into rehab! :D

bruce38
05-27-2009, 09:56 AM
Are you comparing smoking with time wasting on the tennis court? :-? Comeon!! Smoking is a personal preference whereas tennis is a professional sport!

Well anyways if Nadal & others are so addicted to it, they should be sent into rehab! :D

It was just an example, of habits. The moral is that it's hard to break habits, especially bad ones. That's all. Smoking is a personal preference at the onset. But it becomes an addiction after continued use and the personal choice to simply quit cold turkey is essentially gone. Hey I'm not defending them. I would like to see the rule enforced (especially because the outcome of some matches might have been different). I'm just looking for a realistic solution rather than idealistic rants which serve no purpose.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 10:01 AM
No it's not enough time, because in those 16 years he must have continually abused the time limit without consequence. He was "allowed" to do this. So effectively for his state of mind for game play, no such rules existed even if he knew they existed on paper. And sure of course we WANT to see the rules enforced. But can't you see that it won't happen?


bruce, seriously>>>> you are stretching here.

If time is not that important, then how the heck does he show up to his matches. **on time**. :roll:

Again, there is no need for a grace period, or period of adjusmtment. The moment every single chair ump starts enforcing the rule (already in existence) and penalizing the player according the rule/consequence, Nadal and every other player will surely start following it, or will be defaulting a hell of a lot of matches.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 10:04 AM
bruce, seriously>>>> you are stretching here.

If time is not that important, then how the heck does he show up to his matches. **on time**. :roll:

Again, there is no need for a grace period, or period of adjusmtment. The moment every single chair ump starts enforcing the rule (already in existence) and penalizing the player according the rule/consequence, Nadal and every other player will surely start following it, or will be defaulting a hell of a lot of matches.

Wait a second, where have I said time is not important? It IS important, which is precisely why I'm trying to prescribe a solution. And just look at what you wrote - the moment every umpire... <--- THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!! Things that SHOULD happen are very different from things that WILL happen.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 10:10 AM
Wait a second, where have I said time is not important? It IS important, which is precisely why I'm trying to prescribe a solution. And just look at what you wrote - the moment every umpire... <--- THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!! Things that SHOULD happen are very different from things that WILL happen.


So then lets propose to have the rule changed to:


Point must start within 25 seconds, unless the chair ump is too lazy to look at his court-issued stop watch and enforce it. In this case, the player could take as long as they want between points as long as they don't leave the Tennis Arena. ("Tennis arena", for this rule shall mean entire tennis facility including parking lot, bus ramps, metro stations, etc).

bruce38
05-27-2009, 10:12 AM
So then lets propose to have the rule changed to:


Point must start within 25 seconds, unless the chair ump is too lazy to look at his court-issued stop watch and enforce it. In this case, the player could take as long as they want between points as long as they don't leave the Tennis Arena. ("Tennis arena", for this rule shall mean entire tennis facility including parking lot, bus ramps, metro stations, etc).

This is the status quo, and unless you propose something other than a drastic solution, things won't change. Look at history, if one wants change, one must propose baby steps.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 10:21 AM
^^There doesn't need to be any change other than making the chair umps enforce the rules. Period.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 10:31 AM
^^There doesn't need to be any change other than making the chair umps enforce the rules. Period.

Ok consider the following statements and use logic not emotion to answer. If I tell you, that making the chair umps enforce the rules is NOT possible (and WILL NOT happen), will your answer be:

1) look for another solution that gets you along the path towards the ideal solution.

2) Reiterate "make the chair umps enforce the rules" and get nowhere.

Choose wisely now...

drakulie
05-27-2009, 10:42 AM
Ok consider the following statements and use logic not emotion to answer. If I tell you, that making the chair umps enforce the rules is NOT possible (and WILL NOT happen), will your answer be:

1) look for another solution that gets you along the path towards the ideal solution.

2) Reiterate "make the chair umps enforce the rules" and get nowhere.

Choose wisely now...


3) Terminate the chair umps and hire ones with balls and know how to enforce rules. It really ain't that difficult. I'm quite certain once they realize there jobs are on the line, they will start enforcing the rules as they are written without prejudice.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 10:43 AM
3) Terminate the chair umps and hire ones with balls and know how to enforce rules. It really ain't that difficult. I'm quite certain once they realize there jobs are on the line, they will start enforcing the rules as they are written without prejudice.

Again I say look at history. Hasn't happened yet, why would it happen now? IT won't. Stop dreaming.

ninman
05-27-2009, 11:02 AM
I'm totally with drak on this one. The umpires must do the jobs they were hired to do, or get fired, just like everyone else. Part of their job is to enforce the rules. Thing is they are too scared because the players would complain. BUT THOSE ARE THE RULES, nobody, not the players, not the fans, organisers anybody has the right to complain about rules being enforced as they are written down.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 11:07 AM
Again I say look at history. Hasn't happened yet, why would it happen now? IT won't. Stop dreaming.


It's not happening because the chair umps are being allowed to enable the players to severely bend the rules. I'm quite sure if the chair and line umps allowed the players to foot fault, the players would abuse this too. as with every other rule in the game.

Like I said earlier>>> give a foot, and the they take 3.

This is way out of control.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 11:12 AM
It's not happening because the chair umps are being allowed to enable the players to severely bend the rules. I'm quite sure if the chair and line umps allowed the players to foot fault, the players would abuse this too. as with every other rule in the game.

Like I said earlier>>> give a foot, and the they take 3.

This is way out of control.

The point is, it's not going to happen! What don't you understand about that?

drakulie
05-27-2009, 11:20 AM
The point is, it's not going to happen! What don't you understand about that?


I do understand what you are saying. However, don't agree with your approach. If the players dictatate how the rules are enforced/changed, then you might as well not have any umps on the court, and let the players slug it out as they see fit.

tennisplaya
05-27-2009, 12:07 PM
I do understand what you are saying. However, don't agree with your approach. If the players dictatate how the rules are enforced/changed, then you might as well not have any umps on the court, and let the players slug it out as they see fit.


I can't believe such a minor thing irritates you so much.

You should do some knitting in the extra 1 or 2 seconds that they take between points. :)

http://i41.tinypic.com/2584g7c.jpg

drakulie
05-27-2009, 12:21 PM
^^^^LOL

doesn't irritate me as much as Sharapova squeeling like a pig in heat.

ninman
05-27-2009, 12:44 PM
^^^^LOL

doesn't irritate me as much as Sharapova squeeling like a pig in heat.

Hahaha, she almost got eliminated today, but managed to struggle through, so we may have a few more matches of listening to her.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 12:54 PM
I do understand what you are saying. However, don't agree with your approach. If the players dictatate how the rules are enforced/changed, then you might as well not have any umps on the court, and let the players slug it out as they see fit.

But you have no approach. You want what will not happen. So what's the point?

ninman
05-27-2009, 01:00 PM
But you have no approach. You want what will not happen. So what's the point?

Who says it won't happen, I think I'll start a petition to send to the atp saying that us the tennis fans want the rule enforced strictly.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 01:04 PM
Who says it won't happen, I think I'll start a petition to send to the atp saying that us the tennis fans want the rule enforced strictly.

Please do. But my bet is that it won't happen. Time has been abused for years and tennis has been around for a long time - no changes yet.

gflyer
05-27-2009, 01:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4jUGufaJek

what grip is he using? :D

sureshs
05-27-2009, 01:10 PM
The problem has not risen to the threshold of warranting action. If Fed was doing this, none of the guys here would be complaining.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 01:32 PM
The problem has not risen to the threshold of warranting action. If Fed was doing this, none of the guys here would be complaining.

Equally, because Nadal is a major culprit, none of of the guys here think the problem has risen to the threshold of warranting action.

Pancho G
05-27-2009, 01:52 PM
Who says it won't happen, I think I'll start a petition to send to the atp saying that us the tennis fans want the rule enforced strictly.

Please start the petition! :)

I used to love watching tennis, but with the best players being so weird about how much prep time they need to serve, I've found myself getting way too good at fast fowarding to the start of each point.

I long for the days of the macho Sampras who just bounced the ball once and fired away.

drakulie
05-27-2009, 01:57 PM
But you have no approach. You want what will not happen. So what's the point?

I **want** what happens in every other aspect of the game to happen here.

You know>>> the game of tennis????

ie:


keeping the score,
6 games is one set,
2 of 3 sets is a match (in these type of tournament)
foot faulting not allowed
balls that land outside the playing area are called "out".
etc
etc
etcHow is it the approach I want (enforcing this rule), works with every other aspect of the game, but somehow >>>>>> doesn't work with this particular rule???

What is "your approach"???? Players should just do whatever the hell they want, until everyone else begins to tolerate it???

Get over yourself. The only thing you have even remotely hinted at is letting the players do whatever they want.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 02:13 PM
I **want** what happens in every other aspect of the game to happen here.

You know>>> the game of tennis????

ie:


keeping the score,
6 games is one set,
2 of 3 sets is a match (in these type of tournament)
foot faulting not allowed
balls that land outside the playing area are called "out".
etc
etc
etcHow is it the approach I want (enforcing this rule), works with every other aspect of the game, but somehow >>>>>> doesn't work with this particular rule???

What is "your approach"???? Players should just do whatever the hell they want, until everyone else begins to tolerate it???

Get over yourself. The only thing you have even remotely hinted at is letting the players do whatever they want.

You just don't seem to get it. Who cares what you WANT. (Are you actually reading the words). It has nothing to do with what you WANT. It has to do what will actually happen. What you WANT will NOT happen. (I doubt it will sink in, but oh well). The point is that that "somehow" you point out is THERE. Take it or stop watching tennis.

My "approach" is to propose a more realistic scenario that may be actually be accepted. Have I said players should do whatever they want? Have you even read what I have written. Perhaps this is the problem, you are not reading, but rather only ranting.

Defcon
05-27-2009, 02:22 PM
The problem has not risen to the threshold of warranting action. If Fed was doing this, none of the guys here would be complaining.

Yes we would. But Fed doesn't cheat, so this statement is nonsense. On the other hand, we have a player who's said that illegal coaching (by his uncle) is ok as long as he isn't caught. He's the current #1.

Educate the umpires and players that there will be strict policy against going over the time limit. Have the ATP match referee/commissioner review matches in which a player consistently abuses this. These stats are kept (and are very easy to determine from video). Penalize the umpires if they don't do their job. Players get the warning, point, game penalty.

Just like enforcing audible obscenities, racket abuses etc, this will at the discretion of the umpire, but the default should be to penalize the player, not let it go on.

The tennis pros who do it, do it knowingly and willingly. All this talk of 'routine to calm themselves' is hogwash, its gamesmanship and taking extra time is cheating.

Defcon
05-27-2009, 02:25 PM
bruce38, I think you'll find a majority of players would support such a move. Most viewers would too. So I fail to see why exactly this wouldn't happen.

Much bigger changes, like shot-spot have happened, and its not like they had universal support.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 02:28 PM
bruce38, I think you'll find a majority of players would support such a move. Most viewers would too. So I fail to see why exactly this wouldn't happen.

Much bigger changes, like shot-spot have happened, and its not like they had universal support.

I would support it too. I just don't believe it would actually pass simply because this has been happening for years. There must be a reason why the obvious and common sense thing hasn't come about. I don't know why that is - but it is. This is why I don't think it could realistically happen. But hey, prove me wrong. I want the cheaters stopped too.

AprilFool
05-27-2009, 02:41 PM
Pat Cash has been quite vocal on this matter in the past two years. Many of the announcers I heard last year were agrreing with him.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5439515.ece

"...Can we call this cheating? Certainly it contravenes the rules of the game. The fact that somebody as impeccably mannered as, say, Roger Federer regularly gets a little bit peeved underlines the need for this issue to be addressed. Are Nadal and Djokovic playing on the fact that umpires are not going to take hard-line action and therefore using the knowledge to give themselves an unfair advantage? The answer is irrefutably yes..."

Defcon
05-27-2009, 02:43 PM
Sadly, I agree with you. Things in tennis seem to be controlled by the media and powerful officials (like that collosal idiot Etienne who single handedly tried to destroy the ATP), and its difficult to introduce change.

I'd say its upto us but I'm not sure if the majority of the tennis audience shares the views of us fans. 99% of people on this board would want more variety in coverage (and no more endless replays of the Williams sisters) yet obviously some morons like the way things are, otherwise ESPN wouldn't be getting the ratings.

AprilFool
05-27-2009, 02:50 PM
Pat Cash has been quite vocal on this matter in the past two years. Many of the announcers I heard last year were agrreing with him.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5439515.ece

"...Can we call this cheating? Certainly it contravenes the rules of the game. The fact that somebody as impeccably mannered as, say, Roger Federer regularly gets a little bit peeved underlines the need for this issue to be addressed. Are Nadal and Djokovic playing on the fact that umpires are not going to take hard-line action and therefore using the knowledge to give themselves an unfair advantage? The answer is irrefutably yes..."

drakulie
05-27-2009, 03:23 PM
You just don't seem to get it. Who cares what you WANT.

Last time I checked>>>>

**I** had nothing to do with coming up with, or writing the rules of tennis.


My "approach" is to propose a more realistic scenario that may be actually be accepted.

And once again, what is this "realistic approach"????


If anything, **YOU WANT** people to follow what *YOU* deem realistsic, and not the rules that are currently in place.

OrangePower
05-27-2009, 03:35 PM
3) Terminate the chair umps and hire ones with balls and know how to enforce rules. It really ain't that difficult. I'm quite certain once they realize there jobs are on the line, they will start enforcing the rules as they are written without prejudice.

Again I say look at history. Hasn't happened yet, why would it happen now? IT won't. Stop dreaming.

Who says it won't happen, I think I'll start a petition to send to the atp saying that us the tennis fans want the rule enforced strictly.

The chair umps will enforce this rule more strictly if and when they are told to do so by the tournament organizers and the ATP. The tournament organizers will instruct them to do so based on pressure from the tennis establishment. So until the tennis establishment decides to have this rule better enforced, nothing is going to get done.

As I see it, the tennis establishment is the ATP organization, the tournaments, and the players. They in turn can all be influenced by some degree by the media and the fans. Obviously, the tennis establishment for whatever reasons is not interested in enforcing this rule, otherwise it would already have happened. So the only thing that will change this is if enough pressure is brought to bear by fans and the media.

And it seems that most fans just don't care that much, although there is a minority of us that do.

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 05:14 PM
Let me put it this way, if we assume that Nadal and Djokovic spent 100 minutes playing tennis during their four hour match, add 20 minutes on for the change of ends, which is obviously something they have to do. Lets suppose that both players averaged 20 seconds between points, instead of 30. That means that their 4 hour match would have lasted less than 3.

So in fact those "few seconds" that you don't care about, yes you're right a few seconds is a few seconds, but if you look at the WHOLE match those 10 seconds that both players were taking over their allotted time, meant that the match lasted 1 hour longer than it needed to.

Isn't there a rule about not stopping on the changeover? Venus and Serena are two of the few pros who follow that rule. Now of course it only takes a few seconds to pick up a towel, take a sip of water, or whatever, but would it really make sense to enforce that rule? How on earth does that influence the outcome of a match?

Can it be enforced? Sure. Is it worth it? Absolutely not!

However, regarding cheating I think Fed cheats when he challenges balls that are clearly out: to stall? cheat? break momentum? Many times it doesn't make sense, even with my eyes I can see those balls are way out and yet he gets a few free seconds too.

So, I guess it's all about perspective.

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 05:15 PM
http://thesituationist.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/media-bias1.jpg

Hope you've read that one on Bias. The subtitle is spot on!

icedevil0289
05-27-2009, 05:17 PM
Isn't there a rule about not stopping on the changeover? Venus and Serena are two of the few pros who follow that rule. Now of course it only takes a few seconds to pick up a towel, take a sip of water, or whatever, but would it really make sense to enforce that rule? How on earth does that influence the outcome of a match?

Can it be enforced? Sure. Is it worth it? Absolutely not!

However, regarding cheating I think Fed cheats when he challenges balls that are clearly out: to stall? cheat? break momentum? Many times it doesn't make sense, even with my eyes I can see those balls are way out and yet he gets a few free seconds too.

So, I guess it's all about perspective.


No the answer would be because fed is a dummy and has horrible eye sight.:)

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 05:19 PM
Its simple...If you are playing with an opponent that is taking as much time as you do, then its ok...but if the other player is sticking to the rules and you are not, then that gives him an unfair advantage...So to avoid all confusion, its best to just enforce the rule strictly to all players!

So, in your estimation players would have to mirror each other? If some people are quick servers like Jankovic and Capriati, the opposition should be forced to play to their tempo?

Or, if a person is a slower paced server, say like Sharapova or Ivanovic the opponent should walk away and get a drink?

From your example, both people would essentially have to be the same or share the same mindset.

Ain't gonna happen.

bruce38
05-27-2009, 05:28 PM
Last time I checked>>>>

**I** had nothing to do with coming up with, or writing the rules of tennis.

Maybe you should try instead of ranting like a lunatic.





If anything, **YOU WANT** people to follow what *YOU* deem realistsic, and not the rules that are currently in place.

The status quo is making you whine like a puss_sy and it's annoying, so I have to come up with alternatives. So sue me.

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 05:34 PM
Pat Cash has been quite vocal on this matter in the past two years. Many of the announcers I heard last year were agrreing with him.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article5439515.ece

"...Can we call this cheating? Certainly it contravenes the rules of the game. The fact that somebody as impeccably mannered as, say, Roger Federer regularly gets a little bit peeved underlines the need for this issue to be addressed. Are Nadal and Djokovic playing on the fact that umpires are not going to take hard-line action and therefore using the knowledge to give themselves an unfair advantage? The answer is irrefutably yes..."

Pat Cash? One of the biggest (retired ) tools on the ATP tour? Ha ha ha. That's funny!

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 05:38 PM
OK, seriously.

Here's a list of rules that should be enforced:

Isn't it a rule that players can't swear on court? Hasn't Fed been known to do this? Was he penalized?

Or how about the infamous racket smashing? Another rule which goes largely ignored? Was he penalized for this one? No!

Is there a rule for sobbing openly and derailing a grand slam trophy ceremony? I thought not.

Maybe we should just penalize the rules our idols don't do, and turn our heads to the rules they do break.

Incidentally, I think the fake challenges are way worse than a few seconds here and there. Many times the other player has to replay a point they've already won giving the challenger an unfair advantage.

icedevil0289
05-27-2009, 05:40 PM
OK, seriously.

Here's a list of rules that should be enforced:

Isn't it a rule that players can't swear on court? Hasn't Fed been known to do this? Was he penalized?

Or how about the infamous racket smashing? Another rule which goes largely ignored?

Is there a rule for sobbing open and derailing a grand slam trophy ceremony? I thought not.

Maybe we should just penalize the rules our idols don't do, and turn our heads to the rules they do break.

Incidentally, I think the fake challenges are way worse than a few seconds here and there. Many times the other player has to replay a point they've already won giving the challenger an unfair advantage.

lmao! wow:roll: Would that be because you have severe dislike for federer?

Zaragoza
05-27-2009, 05:48 PM
30 seconds is nothing when you waste 30 minutes talking about it. Stop abusing this board with the 20/25 seconds rule.

icedevil0289
05-27-2009, 05:49 PM
30 seconds is nothing when you waste 30 minutes talking about it. Stop abusing this board with the 20/25 seconds rule.

I agree. I mean I think that the rules should be more enforced, but people have been taking way too much about it.

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 05:51 PM
lmao! wow:roll: Would that be because you have severe dislike for federer?

No. It would be to show how silly it is that these measly little five seconds annoy people so much, but they have no problems with Fed smashing his racket, in fact, someone made a thread about how great his racket smashing was. When he makes audible obscenities it's ignored. Or, sorry I don't believe in the bad eyesight on those calls, I seriously think it's cheating, and detrimental cheating as well.

I don't have serious dislike for Federer, not to the point where I would rag on him. But I don't like people making mountains out of molehills, whilst ignoring other unfair acts.

Fed? Phhft! I just think he's silly.

VivalaVida
05-27-2009, 05:51 PM
OK, seriously.

Here's a list of rules that should be enforced:

Isn't it a rule that players can't swear on court? Hasn't Fed been known to do this? Was he penalized?

Or how about the infamous racket smashing? Another rule which goes largely ignored? Was he penalized for this one? No!

Is there a rule for sobbing openly and derailing a grand slam trophy ceremony? I thought not.

Maybe we should just penalize the rules our idols don't do, and turn our heads to the rules they do break.

Incidentally, I think the fake challenges are way worse than a few seconds here and there. Many times the other player has to replay a point they've already won giving the challenger an unfair advantage.
what fake challenges? Not everyone has perfect vision like djokovic that they can nail almost all there challenges.Federer challenges when he thinks the call is incorrect and frankly, he is just no good at it. I have no problem with Rafa using more than 25 sec but "fake" challenges is the worst argument I have heard. :shock: Why do you have bring federer into this anyway? He is not one to take extra time between points.

icedevil0289
05-27-2009, 05:55 PM
No. It would be to show how silly it is that these measly little five seconds annoy people so much, but they have no problems with Fed smashing his racket, in fact, someone made a thread about how great his racket smashing was. When he makes audible obscenities it's ignored. Or, sorry I don't believe in the bad eyesight on those calls, I seriously think it's cheating, and detrimental cheating as well.

I don't have serious dislike for Federer, not to the point where I would rag on him. But I don't like people making mountains out of molehills, whilst ignoring other unfair acts.

Fed? Phhft! I just think he's silly.

It was indeed some awesome racket smashing! Anyways, you already know how I feel about the time wasting, but I already mentioned how people are talking way too much about it and should let it go. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on the cheating aspect about his challenges.

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 05:56 PM
what fake challenges? Not everyone has perfect vision like djokovic that they can nail almost all there challenges.Federer challenges when he thinks the call is incorrect and frankly, he is just no good at it. I have no problem with Rafa using more than 25 sec but "fake" challenges is the worst argument I have heard. :shock: Why do you have bring federer into this anyway?

But that's the point, VivalaVida. Anyone can pick something insignificant and make a big deal about it. But the truth is, a few seconds here and there is inconsequential.

However, if one rule gets enforced, shouldn't they all?

When you smash a racket you too are taking time away from your opponent. You have to stop the match, change the racket, etc. Meanwhile your opponent waits a bit more than a few seconds.

Now, am I saying I want to see such rules enforced? No. But if we are to be sticklers, let us stickle about everything. Even the things our favorites do.

icedevil0289
05-27-2009, 05:58 PM
But that's the point, VivalaVida. Anyone can pick something insignificant and make a big deal about it. But the truth is, a few seconds here and there is inconsequential.

However, if one rule gets enforced, shouldn't they all?

When you smash a racket you too are taking time away from your opponent. You have to stop the match, change the racket, etc. Meanwhile your opponent waits a bit more than a few seconds.

Now, am I saying I want to see such rules enforced? No. But if we are to be sticklers, let us stickle about everything. Even the things our favorites do.

Agree. That makes sense, especially about the cursing. Although I don't remember fed using using obscene words, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

IvanAndreevich
05-27-2009, 06:00 PM
OK, seriously.

Here's a list of rules that should be enforced:

Isn't it a rule that players can't swear on court? Hasn't Fed been known to do this? Was he penalized?

Or how about the infamous racket smashing? Another rule which goes largely ignored? Was he penalized for this one? No!

Is there a rule for sobbing openly and derailing a grand slam trophy ceremony? I thought not.

Maybe we should just penalize the rules our idols don't do, and turn our heads to the rules they do break.

Incidentally, I think the fake challenges are way worse than a few seconds here and there. Many times the other player has to replay a point they've already won giving the challenger an unfair advantage.

Basically you are trying to justify one wrong by saying that Federer got away (supposedly) with another wrong. Epic fail. Female logic?

If Federer breaks a rule (any rule in the rule book) he should be given a warning and then a penalty in accordance with the rules.

No person in their right mind would start saying that when Federer breaks a racquet (twice) and receives a point penalty he should be let off the hook because Nadal always breaks the time rule and gets away with it. What kind of ******** excuse would that be?

That's exactly what you are doing.

icedevil0289
05-27-2009, 06:05 PM
Basically you are trying to justify one wrong by saying that Federer got away (supposedly) with another wrong. Epic fail. Female logic?

If Federer breaks a rule (any rule in the rule book) he should be given a warning and then a penalty in accordance with the rules.

No person in their right mind would start saying that when Federer breaks a racquet (twice) and receives a point penalty he should be let off the hook because Nadal always breaks the time rule and gets away with it. What kind of ******** excuse would that be?

That's exactly what you are doing.

hey.:mad:
10 char

Serve_Ace
05-27-2009, 06:08 PM
This is war, no time to be offended by sexism.

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 06:33 PM
Agree. That makes sense, especially about the cursing. Although I don't remember fed using using obscene words, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Because it wasn't a big deal.

TheTruth
05-27-2009, 06:36 PM
Basically you are trying to justify one wrong by saying that Federer got away (supposedly) with another wrong. Epic fail. Female logic?

If Federer breaks a rule (any rule in the rule book) he should be given a warning and then a penalty in accordance with the rules.

No person in their right mind would start saying that when Federer breaks a racquet (twice) and receives a point penalty he should be let off the hook because Nadal always breaks the time rule and gets away with it. What kind of ******** excuse would that be?

That's exactly what you are doing.

Then why aren't there any threads about Fed cursing or breaking rackets? (In a negative way)?

Nobody says anything when Fed does whatever he does.

That's the point. Double standards.

icedevil0289
05-27-2009, 06:40 PM
Then why aren't there any threads about Fed cursing or breaking rackets? (In a negative way)?

Nobody says anything when Fed does whatever he does.

That's the point. Double standards.

perhaps its because he doesn't normally curse on court or break rackets.

IvanAndreevich
05-27-2009, 06:47 PM
Then why aren't there any threads about Fed cursing or breaking rackets? (In a negative way)?

Nobody says anything when Fed does whatever he does.

That's the point. Double standards.

If you really believe that Federer CONSTANTLY (that's almost every match that he plays) breaks the rules and gets away with it, make a thread to discuss it. That would be completely unacceptable in any way regardless of what Nadal or anyone else does. That doesn't happen, so I am not sure what you are unhappy about. Where is the double standard?

You abuse a rule = you get punished. Federer, Nadal, anyone else. No double standards.

icedevil0289
It was a question ;) Agree with your post btw.

egn
05-27-2009, 08:06 PM
Then why aren't there any threads about Fed cursing or breaking rackets? (In a negative way)?

Nobody says anything when Fed does whatever he does.

That's the point. Double standards.

Well there was a fed breaking his racket thread a few and I am sure there was one on the djokovic incident I can't recall any other racket breaks or cursing of note. Aren't there enough Fed interview threads anyway? Just for you next time Fed breaks a rule I will start a thread so remind me and I will start one.

Defcon
05-27-2009, 08:27 PM
If tomorrow the umpires started enforcing this rule, Nadal and Djoker would be getting penalties every game.

Their fanboys would be up in arms in a holy jihad demanding that the rule was unfair because their golden boys got caught.

Go ahead and punish other players when they break a rule, any rule. Its not going to affect many.

VivalaVida
05-27-2009, 08:29 PM
But that's the point, VivalaVida. Anyone can pick something insignificant and make a big deal about it. But the truth is, a few seconds here and there is inconsequential.

However, if one rule gets enforced, shouldn't they all?

When you smash a racket you too are taking time away from your opponent. You have to stop the match, change the racket, etc. Meanwhile your opponent waits a bit more than a few seconds.

Now, am I saying I want to see such rules enforced? No. But if we are to be sticklers, let us stickle about everything. Even the things our favorites do.
good post. I agree with you completely here. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I dont know why it is such a big deal if Rafa takes some few extra seconds. To be honest, I dont even notice it anymore when Rafa plays.

IvanAndreevich
05-27-2009, 08:40 PM
good post. I agree with you completely here. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I dont know why it is such a big deal if Rafa takes some few extra seconds. To be honest, I dont even notice it anymore when Rafa plays.

We are not talking about a few extra seconds. We are talking about a few dozen extra seconds. Up to 1 minute 22 seconds in his match with Djokovic (last tiebreak), just as an example.

tenis
05-27-2009, 08:51 PM
^ Agreed!!!!!!!!!

sh@de
05-27-2009, 09:03 PM
We are not talking about a few extra seconds. We are talking about a few dozen extra seconds. Up to 1 minute 22 seconds in his match with Djokovic (last tiebreak), just as an example.

Exactly. I don't mind a few seconds, heck, even up to 10 seconds it's probably still fine. But when he takes ages, and I mean ages, it does get a bit annoying.

AprilFool
05-27-2009, 09:42 PM
Pat Cash? One of the biggest (retired ) tools on the ATP tour? Ha ha ha. That's funny!

Perhaps, but he has one Wimbledon title and you don't. He also jams with some cool rock artists. He seems pretty cool to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Cash

AprilFool
05-27-2009, 09:44 PM
That link I posted won't work for this site it seems.
Snip from article:

"Who am I pointing my finger at? Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. What am I accusing them of doing? Basic stalling that is beginning to get on the nerves of everybody who watches and plays the game. They habitually hold up the action by bouncing the ball far too many times before serving. Not only does this practice show contempt for the guy waiting to receive at the other end of the court, but quite frankly, it bores the pants off the fans. It’s wrong and it’s about time serious action was taken to stop it.

Let’s study Nadal first. He makes a mockery of the rule in Grand Slam and Davis Cup tennis that states there should be no more than 20 seconds between the end of one point and the ball being served for the next. He calls for his towel, then fiddles with his underpants in that less-than-becoming manner, which has become his trademark. Finally, he steadies himself, gathers his focus and then sets out to bounce the ball about 15 times before getting it into play.

Djokovic can be even worse. Admittedly, he does not feel the need to rearrange his underwear for every point, but then his ball bouncing can become almost interminable. Those who have either the patience or the willpower have counted up to 25. Then, bizarrely, when the moment comes to serve, his action is very quick, which means that the opponent is almost taken by surprise..."

Tennis_Bum
05-27-2009, 10:06 PM
Considering how the game is power base lining and not serve and volley the ATP should have looked into this a long time ago and increased the time. But who cares? Especially when Nadal and Djokovic give us the most enthralling, exciting matches on tour!

You are kidding right? Just because the guy took forever to grind down an opponent, that does not give him the right to take 40 or more seconds to serve the next point. His style of play does not make him above the set rules.

It's like saying, I have a sport car so I can drive 100 mph whereas others have a mini van, they should drive 40 while the speed limit is 65 mph. The is pure lunacy. Nadal and Djoko when those two face each others, they play pretty much the same game, that is why the rally last so long. Either wanted to wear out the other out by staying back. Their match is exciting or not, depends on whom you ask. I give you that their matches are long. Exciting? I am not so sure, to each his own. But the point is, rules are rules. Just because you take forever between points for breathing, picking your *** to kill time to breath, bouncing ball, doing your hair, etc. that doesn't mean you should have different rules whereas others should have the 25 second rule.

sh@de
05-27-2009, 10:07 PM
That link I posted won't work for this site it seems.
Snip from article:

"Who am I pointing my finger at? Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. What am I accusing them of doing? Basic stalling that is beginning to get on the nerves of everybody who watches and plays the game. They habitually hold up the action by bouncing the ball far too many times before serving. Not only does this practice show contempt for the guy waiting to receive at the other end of the court, but quite frankly, it bores the pants off the fans. Itís wrong and itís about time serious action was taken to stop it.

Letís study Nadal first. He makes a mockery of the rule in Grand Slam and Davis Cup tennis that states there should be no more than 20 seconds between the end of one point and the ball being served for the next. He calls for his towel, then fiddles with his underpants in that less-than-becoming manner, which has become his trademark. Finally, he steadies himself, gathers his focus and then sets out to bounce the ball about 15 times before getting it into play.

Djokovic can be even worse. Admittedly, he does not feel the need to rearrange his underwear for every point, but then his ball bouncing can become almost interminable. Those who have either the patience or the willpower have counted up to 25. Then, bizarrely, when the moment comes to serve, his action is very quick, which means that the opponent is almost taken by surprise..."

Didn't we have that ages ago? Nothing seems to have actually been done so far :-?:(

vtmike
05-28-2009, 04:31 AM
So, in your estimation players would have to mirror each other? If some people are quick servers like Jankovic and Capriati, the opposition should be forced to play to their tempo?

Or, if a person is a slower paced server, say like Sharapova or Ivanovic the opponent should walk away and get a drink?

From your example, both people would essentially have to be the same or share the same mindset.

Ain't gonna happen.

No I never said players have to mirror each other...I said both need to stick to the official set of tennis rules...thats all! If there was a rule on waiting atleast 30 seconds before serving, then I would have criticized players like Sampras & Federer for serving too fast! But there is no such rule...

drakulie
05-28-2009, 05:50 AM
Maybe you should try instead of ranting like a lunatic.



Only one ranting about nothing is you, as evidenced by your posts in this thread suggesting the rules should be changed to allow players to do whatever they want.

OK, seriously.

Here's a list of rules that should be enforced:

Isn't it a rule that players can't swear on court? Hasn't Fed been known to do this? Was he penalized?

Or how about the infamous racket smashing? Another rule which goes largely ignored? Was he penalized for this one? No!

Is there a rule for sobbing openly and derailing a grand slam trophy ceremony? I thought not.

Maybe we should just penalize the rules our idols don't do, and turn our heads to the rules they do break.

Incidentally, I think the fake challenges are way worse than a few seconds here and there. Many times the other player has to replay a point they've already won giving the challenger an unfair advantage.


I see you are still posting filth and garbage.

MrAWD
05-28-2009, 08:28 AM
WOW!! I start the thread and went away for a little while and now 8 pages later I could see that lot of people agreed with me and they are also frustrated with players abusing this rule.

Of course, there where bunch of those trying to protect their idols for the reasons unknown to me, and they are just proving they can bring their head up from their rear no matter how hard anyone tries. I guess some people are limited that way and nobody here will be able to change that for them.

I still think that rules are there for purpose and they should be enforced. If there are such rules that make no sense for whatever reason, then they should take them out of the rule book. Clean and simple! But, if it is there it has to be enforced! Period!

I still remember first time Agassi played Nadal in US Open when Nadal was abusing that very same rule and even after Andre asked umpire to do something about he didn't do it, which was a shame!!


Fedja

bruce38
05-28-2009, 08:35 AM
Only one ranting about nothing is you, as evidenced by your posts in this thread suggesting the rules should be changed to allow players to do whatever they want.




I see you are still posting filth and garbage.

I see you can't read because that's obviously not what I wrote. Well I guess even people who like Fed can be ********. Congrats.

drakulie
05-28-2009, 08:40 AM
I see you can't read because that's obviously not what I wrote. Well I guess even people who like Fed can be ********. Congrats.

Let me know where your proposal is???

Other than talking in circles, and at one point comparing smoking cigarettes to this rule, you have not proposed one damn thing.

Yes that would be ideal. But it's simply not realistic and it's not going to happen. So we need to find a compromising solution where people will be able to adjust gradually over time.

Problem is, umps aren't doing a good job. This is why this thread exists.

Wait a second, where have I said time is not important? It IS important, which is precisely why I'm trying to prescribe a solution. And just look at what you wrote - the moment every umpire... <--- THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!! Things that SHOULD happen are very different from things that WILL happen.

This is the status quo, and unless you propose something other than a drastic solution, things won't change. Look at history, if one wants change, one must propose baby steps.

rommil
05-28-2009, 08:46 AM
WOW!! I start the thread and went away for a little while and now 8 pages later I could see that lot of people agreed with me and they are also frustrated with players abusing this rule.

Of course, there where bunch of those trying to protect their idols for the reasons unknown to me, and they are just proving they can bring their head up from their rear no matter how hard anyone tries. I guess some people are limited that way and nobody here will be able to change that for them.

I still think that rules are there for purpose and they should be enforced. If there are such rules that make no sense for whatever reason, then they should take them out of the rule book. Clean and simple! But, if it is there it has to be enforced! Period!

I still remember first time Agassi played Nadal in US Open when Nadal was abusing that very same rule and even after Andre asked umpire to do something about he didn't do it, which was a shame!!


Fedja
But that's the thing that's a bit disappointing though because Nadal has been warned about it numerous times in the past or some players have brought it to his attention. His mental disorder of feeling the need to rearrange his clothing and line up his water bottles are fine as long as he does it within time limit( well it's not really fine since I could do without seeing him do these rituals while I watch tennis). These players are cognizant about a lot of things, ball toss, spins positioning etc so I doubt they are not aware of timing.
With the issue on enforcing them, you feel a bit bad about the umpires being put on a situation where should they call it or not, considering they bump into these players regularly. It's interesting to know what the tournament directors' instructions are.

rommil
05-28-2009, 08:50 AM
When will people stop whining about this rule? It is not meant to be strictly enforced but a boundary to what a reasonable time is.

Why? Are you afraid that if it gets enforced it will give you less time to raid your fridge regularly? Now I see why you like Rafa that much......

MrAWD
05-28-2009, 08:55 AM
I see you can't read because that's obviously not what I wrote. Well I guess even people who like Fed can be ********. Congrats.

So, bruce, you are still trying to defend you stupid stand here? How about next time when you are up a game, just stop playing and call the match in your favor - what is just another rule to be bent? Who do hack cares about those rules anyway...let as all do as we please out on the court! Maybe next time you bring a baseball bat with you and every time you loose the point hit him with it...rules? Who cares!

sureshs
05-28-2009, 09:16 AM
First, there was no time limit. Then it was changed to be 30 seconds, back when Connors, Lendl and JMac played, and I read that it was abused even then. Then it became 25 seconds, and 20 seconds in the Slams and Davis Cup. 5 seconds difference is a huge 25% increase. Let us first decide on one number, since it appears that there was never a consensus on what a reasonable time is, but was just fiddled with in the rules. Interestingly, it was pointed out that JMac went over the time a lot by just arguing with the umpire. The argument time did not seem to count.

The time does not start after the score is called. It starts when the ball goes out of play in the previous point. The time does not end when the bouncing starts, but when the first serve is struck.

MrAWD
05-28-2009, 09:26 AM
I do agree that time limit is though thing to do, but I do believe it is necessary in today's tennis! Some of those players went way too far with this rule and I think this should be corrected!

Few ways to go about this:

Enforce the rule the way it is specified in the rule book
Modify the existing rule in the book (adjust the time limit), and then enforce it 100%
Remove the rule from the book

sureshs
05-28-2009, 09:30 AM
What about a challenge scenario? Clock is being monitored all the time. Returner makes a predetermined gesture (like picking his butt vigorously) to let the referee know that he thinks the server is taking too much time. If he is right, he wins the point rightaway, otherwise he loses it.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 09:30 AM
Let me know where your proposal is???

Other than talking in circles, and at one point comparing smoking cigarettes to this rule, you have not proposed one damn thing.

It's in my previous posts, go read it. I didn't compare smoking cigarettes to the actual rule. This proves you don't read. Try calming down and reading first before making your comments, it will improve your personality.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 09:31 AM
So, bruce, you are still trying to defend you stupid stand here? How about next time when you are up a game, just stop playing and call the match in your favor - what is just another rule to be bent? Who do hack cares about those rules anyway...let as all do as we please out on the court! Maybe next time you bring a baseball bat with you and every time you loose the point hit him with it...rules? Who cares!

I would kick your *** every time little boy. Please try to use proper english in your posts, I almost had to hire an interpreter.

drakulie
05-28-2009, 09:34 AM
It's in my previous posts, go read it.


Link please.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 09:39 AM
Link please.

How about this as a solution. No shot clock, that would be dumb. But every tenth (or 15th) time you go over the limit, you get penalized a point. Referee or computer keeps track of time. This way players who occasionally go over without intention, don't get penalized (that often). But players who do it consistently (whether or intentional or not), get penalized. Over time, these players will adapt to staying within the time limits.

Not every player consistently goes over time, sometimes a player will go over a couple of times unintentionally by just a few seconds (even Fed does this), it would be stupid to enforce the rule in these situations. Only players who consistently go over time would get penalized. Every tenth or 15th is arbitrary, it can be adjusted.

Aabye
05-28-2009, 09:40 AM
Let me know where your proposal is???

Other than talking in circles, and at one point comparing smoking cigarettes to this rule, you have not proposed one damn thing.

Drakulie, you loudmouth. Why don't you go back and read before you start picking on someone? If you still have a bone to pick, go ahead. This next quote:

20 seconds seems a bit short even for professionals. Why don't they just increase to 30-35 seconds and then really enforce it.

was posted on the first page of this thread.

I would kick your *** every time little boy. Please try to use proper english in your posts, I almost had to hire an interpreter.

Don't be a jerk, even if drakulie was one. And if you are going to complain about proper English, make sure you know how to properly capitalize.

Now as far as changing the rules...I wouldn't be against that, because part of the reason we have such high quality matches is because after an amazing point, the ref is usually smart enough to give them a few extra seconds so that the match doesn't lose any intensity.

But rules are rules, and while the occasional exception (as in after a 50-shot rally only) isn't enough to cause chaos, since they bother to have them they should probably enforce them more often then they do now.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 09:43 AM
haw to properly capitalize.



What does that mean? :)

Aabye
05-28-2009, 09:48 AM
What does that mean? :)

It's "how to capitalize" with a Southern accent?:oops::razz:

kraggy
05-28-2009, 09:53 AM
I like Bruce38's suggestion about giving a player 15 passes or so and then penalizing them. Every 15th violation or so, they lose a point. This will allow for some flexibility and make sure that players are only getting penalized when they have broken the rule multiple times. Of course the number is arbitrary but the 25 second rule is arbitrary as well.

I also like a suggestion that another poster had where he said that a player should raise his hand ( if he needs more than 25 seconds after a long point). If the opponent also agrees, then they get an extra 15 seconds. If not, they start play.

drakulie
05-28-2009, 09:55 AM
Not every player consistently goes over time, sometimes a player will go over a couple of times unintentionally by just a few seconds (even Fed does this), it would be stupid to enforce the rule in these situations. Only players who consistently go over time would get penalized. Every tenth or 15th is arbitrary, it can be adjusted.


As I have said before, you are making it subjective and mostly up to the players to do whatever they want.

Lastly, if the umpires aren't enforcing the current rule and "will never happen" as you have stated, what makes you think they will enforce a rule that is "arbitrary" and up to their discretion???? :roll:


Drakulie, you loudmouth. Why don't you go back and read before you start picking on someone?

He has yet to provide a proposal that advocates "change", as he stated. Now go back to 3rd grade and kick your teacher in the mouth for failing to teach you reading comprehension.

MrAWD
05-28-2009, 09:57 AM
I would kick your *** every time little boy. Please try to use proper english in your posts, I almost had to hire an interpreter.

Wow! So you are even worse then I hoped for...feel sorry for someone like that...

drakulie
05-28-2009, 09:57 AM
I like Bruce38's suggestion about giving a player 15 passes or so and then penalizing them. Every 15th violation or so, they lose a point.

In other words, they could serve out an antire set, and take as long as they want between points. After that they lose one point. :roll:

sureshs
05-28-2009, 10:01 AM
I like Bruce38's suggestion about giving a player 15 passes or so and then penalizing them. Every 15th violation or so, they lose a point. This will allow for some flexibility and make sure that players are only getting penalized when they have broken the rule multiple times. Of course the number is arbitrary but the 25 second rule is arbitrary as well.

I also like a suggestion that another poster had where he said that a player should raise his hand ( if he needs more than 25 seconds after a long point). If the opponent also agrees, then they get an extra 15 seconds. If not, they start play.

All this is covered if we say that we leave it to the referee's discretion. If a police radar picks up a speed 1 mph over the limit, the officer decides whether to pursue him or not (which led to the all the convenient theories that over 5 mph is the "real" limit and what not, which are not true). If the officer wants, he can ticket the +1 mph driver, otherwise he will not. He is allowed to take many conditions into account. Why not leave it at that?

kraggy
05-28-2009, 10:06 AM
In other words, they could serve out an antire set, and take as long as they want between points. After that they lose one point. :roll:

Again , 15 was an arbitrary number. It could be 10 or even 5. Get all the players together , do some kind of voting and have the exact number be decided.

They did a study somewhere to check the effect of raising speed limits on speeding. When the speed limit was 65 , most people drove at 75. But when the speed limit was raised to 75 , most people drove at 80 and not 85. The point of this is that the entire system needs to be revisited

a) Get the players opinion on the 25 s rule. If an overwhelming majority says 25 sec is enough, then keep it. If not , change the time allowance.

b) Come up with a penalization system that ONLY punishes multiple time offenders. Then strictly enforce this system. Right now the rule does not distinguish between a point played at 0-0 first game of the set when both players are fresh or at 19-18 in the tiebreak when both are tired. If the system itself is flawed, the umpires will be hesitant to strictly enforce it!

MrAWD
05-28-2009, 10:07 AM
I like Bruce38's suggestion about giving a player 15 passes or so and then penalizing them. Every 15th violation or so, they lose a point. This will allow for some flexibility and make sure that players are only getting penalized when they have broken the rule multiple times. Of course the number is arbitrary but the 25 second rule is arbitrary as well.
In order to enforce any number of lets in this violation there would have to be proper indication for where each of the player is. That includes a clock too, since hand watch from the umpires will not cut it since only he/she can see it.

Also, by allowing this to leak over several errors and then act upon it discriminates this rule and makes it less worth compare to any other one. The fact that it is extremely hard to enforce it is also an issue.

I think that there should be one value that has to be obeyed all the time or nothing. Some way to give players extra times (like kraggy's example as one of them) would be needed as well, but that would have to be limited to certain number as well, so that would not be abused as well.

Fedja

MrAWD
05-28-2009, 10:14 AM
Again , 15 was an arbitrary number. It could be 10 or even 5. Get all the players together , do some kind of voting and have the exact number be decided.
Any number like this would be of no help unless it is 1! For this situation several different level of "punishments" would be better off. You get a warning, then loose the point after that would make more sense! You could add another level in between those two, but that would be better of compare to the sertain number of allowances.

Fedja

kraggy
05-28-2009, 10:15 AM
All this is covered if we say that we leave it to the referee's discretion. If a police radar picks up a speed 1 mph over the limit, the officer decides whether to pursue him or not (which led to the all the convenient theories that over 5 mph is the "real" limit and what not, which are not true). If the officer wants, he can ticket the +1 mph driver, otherwise he will not. He is allowed to take many conditions into account. Why not leave it at that?

Because in the police officer case, as long as the police officer is just following the letter of the law, he is not in the least bit afraid of the repercussions of his/her decision. Imagine ,a Nadal-Fed match at 11-10 in the 5th set and the umpire decides to suddenly use his discretion to penalize Nadal a point for taking 45 seconds. Nadal, the media , the crowd everyone would go berserk! If on the other hand, we have a clear cut system and Nadal has been warned 14 times, then when he gets penalized for his 15th violation, its more of a "Oh No " reaction than a " #@$%#%".

Right now the umpires are too scared to enforce the rules because they are afraid that doing it selectively will cause controversy!

drakulie
05-28-2009, 10:16 AM
Again , 15 was an arbitrary number. It could be 10 or even 5. Get all the players together , do some kind of voting and have the exact number be decided.

And what if it is zero??? Then what?? continue to allow the players to do what they want??

and what if this "arbitrary" number is 100??? Then what??? continue to allow the players to do what they want????


b) Come up with a penalization system that ONLY punishes multiple time offenders. Then strictly enforce this system.

This^^^^^^ I like a lot, and should be applied to every rule.

For instance,,,,, players should be allowed to foot fault and serve from the net. If they do it "multiple times" (whatever that number is), then they get a warning.

kraggy
05-28-2009, 10:31 AM
For instance,,,,, players should be allowed to foot fault and serve from the net. If they do it "multiple times" (whatever that number is), then they get a warning.

You clearly don't understand that all rules are not equal. Murdering someone is not the same as stealing a loaf of bread. Driving 5 mph above the speed limit is not the same as drunk driving 30 mph above the speed limit.

Why not just have a system where the player forfeits the match if they go over the limit even once. You would love that system wouldn't you?

Each rule has to be given separate treatment based on

a) Why was the rule created in the first place
b) Who benefits from breaking the rule
c) How often is the rule broken

etc etc

Try thinking outside the box for a bit before bashing on other people's suggestions.

woodrow1029
05-28-2009, 10:34 AM
You clearly don't understand that all rules are not equal. Murdering someone is not the same as stealing a loaf of bread. Driving 5 mph above the speed limit is not the same as drunk driving 30 mph above the speed limit.

Why not just have a system where the player forfeits the match if they go over the limit even once. You would love that system wouldn't you?

Each rule has to be given separate treatment based on

a) Why was the rule created in the first place
b) Who benefits from breaking the rule
c) How often is the rule broken

etc etc

Try thinking outside the box for a bit before bashing on other people's suggestions.

Some people don't have this capability. I would love to see some of these people attempt to chair a match. I would be glad to evaluate them in the chair. And I would evaluate them as honestly as I do actual umpires.

MrAWD
05-28-2009, 10:37 AM
You clearly don't understand that all rules are not equal. Murdering someone is not the same as stealing a loaf of bread. Driving 5 mph above the speed limit is not the same as drunk driving 30 mph above the speed limit.
No, I think you are wrong here! The rules are all equal! The effects for braking the rules are differ! You can not say that one rule is more important then other! That is why myself and bunch of others are saying that rule that says 25 sec or whatever else is the same kind of rule as foot fault that drakulie mentioned above!

woodrow1029
05-28-2009, 10:40 AM
No, I think you are wrong here! The rules are all equal! The effects for braking the rules are differ! You can not say that one rule is more important then other! That is why myself and bunch of others are saying that rule that says 25 sec or whatever else is the same kind of rule as foot fault that drakulie mentioned above!
Considering the time between points is not a rule of tennis, it is a guideline under the code of conduct, it is not the same as foot faulting, or catching a ball going out, or other "Rules of Tennis"

Zaragoza
05-28-2009, 10:48 AM
I see you can't read because that's obviously not what I wrote. Well I guess even people who like Fed can be ********. Congrats.

That's not a smart comment. People who like Federer have the same chances to be "********" as fans of any other player.

drakulie
05-28-2009, 10:50 AM
You clearly don't understand that all rules are not equal.

Oh, I'm sorry. Could you provide me with a rule book that states rule "X" is not equal to rule "Y", and therfore should not be enforced. I can't seem to find it.


the rest of your post is garbage.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:21 AM
As I have said before, you are making it subjective and mostly up to the players to do whatever they want.

Lastly, if the umpires aren't enforcing the current rule and "will never happen" as you have stated, what makes you think they will enforce a rule that is "arbitrary" and up to their discretion???? :roll:




He has yet to provide a proposal that advocates "change", as he stated. Now go back to 3rd grade and kick your teacher in the mouth for failing to teach you reading comprehension.

Tell me what is subjective about it? The 25 seconds of the current rule is already subjective. This is saying you get 15 violations and you get penalized. This is not subjective once you've decided on the number. How is it up to the players??? 15 times and you lose a point. Period! This is not arbitrary once the rule has been SET. This rule is more LIKELY to be enforced because as Kraggy mentioned, it allows some flexibility.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:22 AM
Wow! So you are even worse then I hoped for...feel sorry for someone like that...

Wow you hoped for me? How sweet of you.:???:

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:23 AM
In other words, they could serve out an antire set, and take as long as they want between points. After that they lose one point. :roll:

They can already do that. According to this, keep doing it and you will get penalized.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:24 AM
All this is covered if we say that we leave it to the referee's discretion. If a police radar picks up a speed 1 mph over the limit, the officer decides whether to pursue him or not (which led to the all the convenient theories that over 5 mph is the "real" limit and what not, which are not true). If the officer wants, he can ticket the +1 mph driver, otherwise he will not. He is allowed to take many conditions into account. Why not leave it at that?

It's better than the anarchy we have now.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Again , 15 was an arbitrary number. It could be 10 or even 5. Get all the players together , do some kind of voting and have the exact number be decided.

They did a study somewhere to check the effect of raising speed limits on speeding. When the speed limit was 65 , most people drove at 75. But when the speed limit was raised to 75 , most people drove at 80 and not 85. The point of this is that the entire system needs to be revisited

a) Get the players opinion on the 25 s rule. If an overwhelming majority says 25 sec is enough, then keep it. If not , change the time allowance.

b) Come up with a penalization system that ONLY punishes multiple time offenders. Then strictly enforce this system. Right now the rule does not distinguish between a point played at 0-0 first game of the set when both players are fresh or at 19-18 in the tiebreak when both are tired. If the system itself is flawed, the umpires will be hesitant to strictly enforce it!

Exactly! Good post. One has to use reason and practicality to bring about change.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:27 AM
Because in the police officer case, as long as the police officer is just following the letter of the law, he is not in the least bit afraid of the repercussions of his/her decision. Imagine ,a Nadal-Fed match at 11-10 in the 5th set and the umpire decides to suddenly use his discretion to penalize Nadal a point for taking 45 seconds. Nadal, the media , the crowd everyone would go berserk! If on the other hand, we have a clear cut system and Nadal has been warned 14 times, then when he gets penalized for his 15th violation, its more of a "Oh No " reaction than a " #@$%#%".

Right now the umpires are too scared to enforce the rules because they are afraid that doing it selectively will cause controversy!

EXACTLY. I couldn't have said it better myself.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:29 AM
And what if it is zero??? Then what?? continue to allow the players to do what they want??

and what if this "arbitrary" number is 100??? Then what??? continue to allow the players to do what they want????

.

It would never be 100, it would be something reasonable that everyone agrees upon. It could even be 5. A number of 1 will never be enforced in critical situations as kraggy pointed out.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:30 AM
You clearly don't understand that all rules are not equal. Murdering someone is not the same as stealing a loaf of bread. Driving 5 mph above the speed limit is not the same as drunk driving 30 mph above the speed limit.

Why not just have a system where the player forfeits the match if they go over the limit even once. You would love that system wouldn't you?

Each rule has to be given separate treatment based on

a) Why was the rule created in the first place
b) Who benefits from breaking the rule
c) How often is the rule broken

etc etc

Try thinking outside the box for a bit before bashing on other people's suggestions.

Excellent point.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:31 AM
No, I think you are wrong here! The rules are all equal! The effects for braking the rules are differ! You can not say that one rule is more important then other! That is why myself and bunch of others are saying that rule that says 25 sec or whatever else is the same kind of rule as foot fault that drakulie mentioned above!

You may not want to say it, but the fact is some rules are more important than others. Touching the net and losing the point is more important than going over the time limit. It's just a fact of life. You have to learn to deal with it and look for compromises.

sureshs
05-28-2009, 11:33 AM
The umpire has spoken. Rest of you pack up and go home.

bruce38
05-28-2009, 11:33 AM
That's not a smart comment. People who like Federer have the same chances to be "********" as fans of any other player.

Yes, my bad. I was just trying to give a benefit of doubt that people who appreciate Fed are more enlightened. I repeat, my bad.

Cosmic Charlie
05-28-2009, 11:38 AM
Considering the time between points is not a rule of tennis, it is a guideline under the code of conduct, it is not the same as foot faulting, or catching a ball going out, or other "Rules of Tennis"

Considering time between points is covered by 'Continuous Play' which is a Rule of Tennis rather than The Code.

Like footfaulting, it is one of the rules players incorrectly think they are entitled to an unofficial warning.

Like footfaulting, playing at a pace outside the limit set by the 'Rules of Tennis' requiring a warning/penalty.

The problem tennis has is that two of the top four are among the most flagrant violators of this rule that has been very infrequently enforced. When they are called out, it is usually a big point (when they exceed twice the limit), which I think is unfair. They should be given warnings and penalties early on to ensure the big points are played without any policing required.

I cannot help thinking that ignoring this problem now is a business decision. Just my thought.

woodrow1029
05-28-2009, 11:46 AM
Considering time between points is covered by 'Continuous Play' which is a Rule of Tennis rather than The Code.

Like footfaulting, it is one of the rules players incorrectly think they are entitled to an unofficial warning.

Like footfaulting, playing at a pace outside the limit set by the 'Rules of Tennis' requiring a warning/penalty.

The problem tennis has is that two of the top four are among the most flagrant violators of this rule that has been very infrequently enforced. When they are called out, it is usually a big point (when they exceed twice the limit), which I think is unfair. They should be given warnings and penalties early on to ensure the big points are played without any policing required.

I cannot help thinking that ignoring this problem now is a business decision. Just my thought.
It is actually covered in the Code of Conduct as well, which brings subjectivity to it. It's never going to be consistent.

Cosmic Charlie
05-28-2009, 01:11 PM
It is actually covered in the Code of Conduct as well, which brings subjectivity to it. It's never going to be consistent.

I'd like to understand this a bit more, woodrow. Correct me if I'm wrong:

1. Exceeding the time limit between points results in a time violation according to the Rules of Tennis.
2. Stalling/intentionally delaying the game results in a code violations (Violating the Code of Tennis).

I can see the subjectivity involved in the code violation-is it intentional/stalling or not.
The Rule about 'Continuous Play' specifies 20 seconds (ITF). They could have left it to the umpire to call upon his/her discretion by omitting the '20 sec' bit. That removes most of the subjectivity to it.

The reduction to 20 seconds was because players like Courier had worked out a 25-30 second routine. Within the rules, but definitely not continuos. I can see the same thing happening if TV scheduling becomes a problem. I just hope that these super long matches (with ignored time violations) do not result in pressure to do away with 5 setters altogether. I watched an interesting four setter today that would have taken more than 5 hours if excessive time was taken between points.

kraggy
05-28-2009, 01:56 PM
the rest of your post is garbage.

Everything you have EVER posted is garbage.

TheTruth
05-28-2009, 06:34 PM
perhaps its because he doesn't normally curse on court or break rackets.

That's true. I was just trying to make a point about how we can pick anything and make it an issue, regardless of its effect on the game.

TheTruth
05-28-2009, 06:39 PM
If you really believe that Federer CONSTANTLY (that's almost every match that he plays) breaks the rules and gets away with it, make a thread to discuss it. That would be completely unacceptable in any way regardless of what Nadal or anyone else does. That doesn't happen, so I am not sure what you are unhappy about. Where is the double standard?

You abuse a rule = you get punished. Federer, Nadal, anyone else. No double standards.

icedevil0289
It was a question ;) Agree with your post btw.

1. Who said I was unhappy? I'm simply trying to make a point.

2. The double standard was the "purists" acting so aggrieved over 5 seconds, and then turning around and lauding Fed for breaking a racket, another rule. See the double standard?

3. Why would I create a thread about Federer? Period.

icedevil0289
05-28-2009, 06:41 PM
That's true. I was just trying to make a point about how we can pick anything and make it an issue, regardless of its effect on the game.

okay, I understand. Anyways, I think the OP and others who agree have made their points and opinions well known. perhaps time to close the thread.

TheTruth
05-28-2009, 06:46 PM
I do agree that time limit is though thing to do, but I do believe it is necessary in today's tennis! Some of those players went way too far with this rule and I think this should be corrected!

Few ways to go about this:

Enforce the rule the way it is specified in the rule book
Modify the existing rule in the book (adjust the time limit), and then enforce it 100%
Remove the rule from the book


It was never that important in the first place.

TheTruth
05-28-2009, 06:55 PM
Well there was a fed breaking his racket thread a few and I am sure there was one on the djokovic incident I can't recall any other racket breaks or cursing of note. Aren't there enough Fed interview threads anyway? Just for you next time Fed breaks a rule I will start a thread so remind me and I will start one.

You misunderstood. I don't care that Fed broke a racquet or cursed on court. In the heat of the moment, we give people the benefit of the doubt.

What I find amusing is that some posters want to go on and on about something Nadal does because "rules are written in stone and should be adhered to."

But, otoh, when their favorite breaks a racquet or curses on court, they're either mum, or applaud the behaviour.

You missed the broader meaning. I think both acts are trivial. Rafa and five seconds, and Fed breaking a racket once in what, ten years?

So I won't be reminding you of anything because I find the attention given to this subject matter amusing. Nothing more.

Serve_Ace
05-28-2009, 07:27 PM
You misunderstood. I don't care that Fed broke a racquet or cursed on court. In the heat of the moment, we give people the benefit of the doubt.

What I find amusing is that some posters want to go on and on about something Nadal does because "rules are written in stone and should be adhered to."

But, otoh, when their favorite breaks a racquet or curses on court, they're either mum, or applaud the behaviour.

You missed the broader meaning. I think both acts are trivial. Rafa and five seconds, and Fed breaking a racket once in what, ten years?

So I won't be reminding you of anything because I find the attention given to this subject matter amusing. Nothing more.

Who applauded breaking rackets, the Miami crowd sure didn't, Rafa a lot of the times go well over just five seconds

TheTruth
05-28-2009, 07:37 PM
Perhaps, but he has one Wimbledon title and you don't. He also jams with some cool rock artists. He seems pretty cool to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Cash

Good for him, but what's that got to do with me? I know you don't think I'm sitting here coveting his Wimbledon trophy, or the fact that he jams with bands I wouldn't be caught dead listening to.

His trophy doesn't mean squat to me. Why should it? Success=trophies? money? fame? Maybe in your world, not in mine.

If I'm going to admire someone it'll be for their contribution to the betterment of society, not so they can fill up a trophy cabinet, lol.

I don't like him because he made some very negative, unflattering comments about Lindsay Davenport years ago, calling her ugly, fat, or something equally derogatory. And to me, anyone (especially someone in the limelight) who says hurtful things about another human being in the public spotlight gets no kudos from me.

It's about character, not about spoils.

Pat Cash? Bad example. Never saw anything good he said in print!

Stinkdyr
05-29-2009, 05:53 AM
Nada picks his butt to get under the skin of his opponents. He knows they see him. He knows they will then be grossed out--knowing that they will have to shake hands with him soon. This rattles them. Hey it works, he hasn't lost at FO yet. Proof is in the....ahem....pudding. as they say.

TheTruth
05-29-2009, 02:56 PM
Who applauded breaking rackets, the Miami crowd sure didn't, Rafa a lot of the times go well over just five seconds

There was a thread on this forum. I don't remember the thread name. I thought it was funny.

TennisPassion5
05-29-2009, 03:45 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I am not a fan of this rule at all. When players are tired, their tennis undoubtedly suffers. Therefore, giving players more time in between points will better the play out on the court. And let's face it, wouldn't we all rather see top level tennis than players playing in desperation because they're tired and don't have the stamina to play out a full point right after playing a grueling previous point?

IvanAndreevich
05-29-2009, 05:36 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I am not a fan of this rule at all. When players are tired, their tennis undoubtedly suffers. Therefore, giving players more time in between points will better the play out on the court. And let's face it, wouldn't we all rather see top level tennis than players playing in desperation because they're tired and don't have the stamina to play out a full point right after playing a grueling previous point?

So where do you draw the line? Next thing you know instead of taking a maximum of 1 minute 22 seconds like now (e.g. Nadal in Madrid) they'll be taking 2-3 minutes and get an asian massage to help relax their muscles between the points.

sh@de
05-29-2009, 06:51 PM
You misunderstood. I don't care that Fed broke a racquet or cursed on court. In the heat of the moment, we give people the benefit of the doubt.

What I find amusing is that some posters want to go on and on about something Nadal does because "rules are written in stone and should be adhered to."

But, otoh, when their favorite breaks a racquet or curses on court, they're either mum, or applaud the behaviour.

You missed the broader meaning. I think both acts are trivial. Rafa and five seconds, and Fed breaking a racket once in what, ten years?

So I won't be reminding you of anything because I find the attention given to this subject matter amusing. Nothing more.

Ok here's where I disagree. I have totally no objection to Rafa taking 5 seconds more, maybe even 10. But then, sometimes he takes 15+ seconds more, and that happens quite a bit of time. I dno, that just seems to be a bit too much? That's different to Fed, because he really really really rarely smashes his racquet. Sure, he should be penalized too if he starts smashing them much more often now. Nobody's saying he should be exempt.