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View Full Version : Roger Federer is the #1 clay-courter in the world


Rhino
06-07-2009, 11:52 AM
Here are the 2009 CLAY rankings for results so far this year:

1. Federer = 3450 points from four tournaments
2000 (RG) + 1000 (Madrid) + 360 (Rome) + 90 (Monte-Carlo)

2. Nadal = 3360 points from six tournaments
180 (RG) + 600 (Madrid) + 1000 (Rome) + 500 (Barcelona) + 1000 (Monte-Carlo) + 80 (Davis Cup)

3. Djokovic = 1900 points from five tournaments
90 (RG) + 360 (Madrid) + 250 (Belgrade) + 600 (Rome) + 600 (Monte-Carlo)

4. Gonzalez 1510 = points from four tournaments
720 (RG) + 360 (Rome) + 180 (Barcelona) + 250 (Vina del Mar)

5. Soderling = 1470 points from six tournaments
1200 (RG) + 45 (Madrid) + 90 (Rome) + 20 (Barcelona) + 10 (Monte-Carlo) + 105 (World Team Championship)

6. Del Potro = 1270 points from four tournaments
720 (RG) + 360 (Madrid) + 180 (Rome) + 10 (Monte-Carlo)

7. Robredo = 1175 points from seven tournaments
360 (RG) + 90 (Madrid) + 90 (Rome) + 90 (Barcelona) + 45 (Monte-Carlo) + 250 (Buenos Aires) + 250 (Costa Do Sauipe)

8=. Murray = 910 points from four tournaments
360 (RG) + 180 (Madrid) + 10 (Rome) + 360 (Monte-Carlo)

8=. Davydenko = 910 points from six tournaments
360 (RG) + 90 (Madrid) + 10 (Rome) + 180 (Barcelona) + 90 (Estoril) + 180 (Monte-Carlo)

10. Verdasco = 810 points from five tournaments
180 (RG) + 180 (Madrid) + 180 (Rome) + 90 (Barcelona) + 180 (Monte-Carlo)

charliexd
06-07-2009, 11:57 AM
nobody thinks that, not even you. He's won the french but he isn't the best clay-courter. Fail thread

joeri888
06-07-2009, 11:58 AM
For this season, it's absolutely true. He's shown the best results and beat the no. 2 in their only encounter. However, Rafa is still a way more accomplished claycourter and will be better in the future as well. It's great but don't read to much into it. The fact that Roger got the most points doesn't mean he's better on clay than Rafa.

Just like Rafa isn't a better grasscourt player, but has the most grass points.

Rhino
06-07-2009, 12:00 PM
nobody thinks that, not even you. He's won the french but he isn't the best clay-courter. Fail thread

This isn't about opinions, it's about facts. Do you dispute the list? He has achieved more ranking points than Nadal on clay this year. And he only needed 4 tournaments to do it.

jmverdugo
06-07-2009, 12:01 PM
It does look like it, for this season at least. He has always been the #2 so it is not so hard to imagine.

lambielspins
06-07-2009, 12:01 PM
For this season yes he ends it as the top clay courter for the year. Career wise Nadal blows him out of the water but this year Federer ends on top.

IvanAndreevich
06-07-2009, 12:02 PM
Roger is the best clay courter in the world in 2009.

Rexking
06-07-2009, 12:03 PM
For this season, it's absolutely true. He's shown the best results and beat the no. 2 in their only encounter. However, Rafa is still a way more accomplished claycourter and will be better in the future as well. It's great but don't read to much into it. The fact that Roger got the most points doesn't mean he's better on clay than Rafa.

Just like Rafa isn't a better grasscourt player, but has the most grass points.

But Roger IS better than Rafa on clay THIS year given he has won the most important tournament on clay (FO) and has won more ranking points from the clay season overall. Which was exactly what the OP was trying to say.

TENNISSLAVE
06-07-2009, 12:04 PM
Yes in 2009... :) ..
and second to only Nadal in the history of the game!

Sorry Borg .

lambielspins
06-07-2009, 12:05 PM
Yes in 2009... :) ..
and second to only Nadal in the history of the game!
Sorry Borg .

Sorry that comment is a plain embarassment.

Blinkism
06-07-2009, 12:06 PM
Well if you're going to get technical with points you should give Rafa another 80 points for his 2 Davis Cup wins earlier in the year over Djokovic and Tipsarevic.

2. Nadal = 3360 points from five tournaments
180 (RG) + 600 (Madrid) + 1000 (Rome) + 500 (Barcelona) + 1000 (Monte-Carlo) + 80 (Davis Cup)
[B]

In fact, if Spain goes on to win the Davis Cup and plays at least 2 more rounds on clay, I think Rafa will either tie or overtake Federer. That is only assuming he plays and wins at least half, or better, of all the clay matches he can in the Davis Cup. And also, that's assuming Roger does not play any more matches on clay (which is very likely).

But, obviously, that's only a technicality.

DoubleDeuce
06-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Yes, completely agree.

He is the best clay courter of the seasn.

Dutch-Guy
06-07-2009, 12:10 PM
This isn't about opinions, it's about facts. Do you dispute the list? He has achieved more ranking points than Nadal on clay this year.

You are 100% right but you should have added THIS YEAR.

malakas
06-07-2009, 12:10 PM
nobody thinks that, not even you. He's won the french but he isn't the best clay-courter. Fail thread

2009 clay h2h :Federer-Nadal = 1-0

the end.

Rhino
06-07-2009, 12:14 PM
Well if you're going to get technical with points you should give Rafa another 80 points for his 2 Davis Cup wins earlier in the year over Djokovic and Tipsarevic.


This is a fair point, I've added it on, but he's still 2nd.

Also I gave Soderling his World Team Championship points.

Blinkism
06-07-2009, 12:24 PM
This is a fair point, I've added it on, but he's still 2nd.

Also I gave Soderling his World Team Championship points.

All he needs to do is win 2 more matches on clay in the Davis Cup and he'll be at least 120 clay points ahead of Roger, but I doubt anyone will consider him the best clay courter in 2009 based on that!

But the numbers would show that he is, most likely (unless Djokovic and Federer go on to play more clay matches/tourneys, which is very unlikely knowing them... unless it's Davis Cup, but even then Switzerland/Serbia lost in the first round so their relegation matches wouldn't be worth any ranking points, I think).

It's only a technicality, like I said, but Nadal could end up being the best clay courter in 2009 on paper, yes.

mandy01
06-07-2009, 12:26 PM
2009 clay h2h :Federer-Nadal = 1-0

the end. LOL...This made me laugh real hard for some reason :lol:

Rhino
06-07-2009, 12:31 PM
You are 100% right but you should have added THIS YEAR.

Well which other year could I be talking about? Last year? 2005?
Of course I'm talking about this year.

cknobman
06-07-2009, 12:47 PM
Wow never thought Id see that with Rafa on tour.

Well don Roger, well done.

Rhino
06-07-2009, 12:48 PM
All he needs to do is win 2 more matches on clay in the Davis Cup and he'll be at least 120 clay points ahead of Roger, but I doubt anyone will consider him the best clay courter in 2009 based on that!

But the numbers would show that he is, most likely (unless Djokovic and Federer go on to play more clay matches/tourneys, which is very unlikely knowing them... unless it's Davis Cup, but even then Switzerland/Serbia lost in the first round so their relegation matches wouldn't be worth any ranking points, I think).

It's only a technicality, like I said, but Nadal could end up being the best clay courter in 2009 on paper, yes.

Yeah there is still Båstad, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Gstaad, Umag, and Bucharest left on clay this year but I doubt Nadal or Federer will bother with those tournaments. Although nadal sometimes plays Stuttgart I think.

joeri888
06-07-2009, 12:49 PM
But Roger IS better than Rafa on clay THIS year given he has won the most important tournament on clay (FO) and has won more ranking points from the clay season overall. Which was exactly what the OP was trying to say.

Yes, therefore I agreed with him. Just don't expect him to do better as well next year

Turning Pro
06-07-2009, 01:31 PM
Well is guess Rafael Nadal is the overall player in the world. And the best Grass court player.

That is indisputable.

Federer beats nobodies and choke artists on his way to the french in one of the easiest draws in recent memory. Beating one top 10 player lol.

thejoe
06-07-2009, 01:36 PM
Well is guess Rafael Nadal is the overall player in the world. And the best Grass court player.

That is indisputable.

Federer beats nobodies and choke artists on his way to the french in one of the easiest draws in recent memory. Beating one top 10 player lol.

Better than losing to the 25 ranked player in the world and being knocked out before the second week.

Turning Pro
06-07-2009, 01:37 PM
^Well even you know the reason for Nadal's defeat. He might not even make it to Wimbledon.

Even you know a normal Nadal beats 99.9% of players on clay including your beloved idol. Normal Nadal = 6-0,6-1 Soderling

Rhino
06-07-2009, 01:53 PM
^Well even you know the reason for Nadal's defeat. He might not even make it to Wimbledon.

Even you know a normal Nadal beats 99.9% of players on clay including your beloved idol. Normal Nadal = 6-0,6-1 Soderling

Wow, you sound really bitter. Not been a good couple of weeks for you really, has it?

Turning Pro
06-07-2009, 02:11 PM
How is that bitter, it's facts, no?

Btw:

So you're honestly telling me if a Prime Federer can't even beat Nadal at RG, that he would have this year 100% healthy? Logic speaks for itself.

1-9 before this year at Nadal and Fed's primes. Then this year, the widely publicised knee injury comes into play. Come on, Fed couldn't even beat Nadal at the Aus Open after the longest match in GS singles histroy at the AO when they was both healthy. Logic speaks for itself.

Plus the fact of the 4-5 consecutive set matches he played against clay court nobodies means he wasn't as convincing as even last year.

joeri888
06-07-2009, 02:16 PM
How is that bitter, it's facts, no?

Btw:

So you're honestly telling me if a Prime Federer can't even beat Nadal at RG, that he would have this year 100% healthy? Logic speaks for itself.

Staying fit for five years and making the finals every year is an achievement itself. How is Rafa clearly the better grass player, yet you have to b*tch about the fact that Roger 'clearly' is the best claycourt player of the year.

Rhino
06-07-2009, 02:17 PM
How is that bitter, it's facts, no?

Dude when you say: "Federer beats nobodies and choke artists on his way to the french in one of the easiest draws in recent memory. Beating one top 10 player lol" you sound very bitter indeed.

Del Potro and Soderling were THE form players of the tournament. Making excuses about draws is just childish and grasping at straws. Nobody talks about the fact that Sampras won Wimbledon in ''97, 98, amd 2000 without even facing a top 15 player (fact). Who cares? He's the 7-times Wimbledon champion.

Blinkism
06-07-2009, 05:52 PM
Whether or not Federer beat some less-than-stellar competition, he proved he can beat everyone but the absolute best (a prime, healthy, and merciless Nadal) in Roland Garros in the last 5 years, so he's not coming out of nowhere and stealing a weak draw to win the French.

BreakPoint
06-07-2009, 06:54 PM
Well is guess Rafael Nadal is the overall player in the world. And the best Grass court player.

That is indisputable.

Federer beats nobodies and choke artists on his way to the french in one of the easiest draws in recent memory. Beating one top 10 player lol.
Um...BOTH Del Potro AND Monfils are Top 10 players. And Haas is a former world #2.

Also, both Acasuso and Mathieu are former Top 20 players.

BTW, how many Top 10 players did Nadal beat at the French Open this year? :oops:

BreakPoint
06-07-2009, 07:00 PM
How is that bitter, it's facts, no?

Btw:

So you're honestly telling me if a Prime Federer can't even beat Nadal at RG, that he would have this year 100% healthy? Logic speaks for itself.

1-9 before this year at Nadal and Fed's primes. Then this year, the widely publicised knee injury comes into play. Come on, Fed couldn't even beat Nadal at the Aus Open after the longest match in GS singles histroy at the AO when they was both healthy. Logic speaks for itself.

Plus the fact of the 4-5 consecutive set matches he played against clay court nobodies means he wasn't as convincing as even last year.
Um...have you been living in a cave? Federer has had a back injury for many months and still had it during the AO. That's why he could barely serve. If he served at his normal level, he would have easily won that match. Federer won sets 2 and 4 easily while Nadal barely won sets 1 and 3.

zagor
06-07-2009, 07:00 PM
How is that bitter, it's facts, no?

Btw:

So you're honestly telling me if a Prime Federer can't even beat Nadal at RG, that he would have this year 100% healthy? Logic speaks for itself.

1-9 before this year at Nadal and Fed's primes. Then this year, the widely publicised knee injury comes into play. Come on, Fed couldn't even beat Nadal at the Aus Open after the longest match in GS singles histroy at the AO when they was both healthy. Logic speaks for itself.

Plus the fact of the 4-5 consecutive set matches he played against clay court nobodies means he wasn't as convincing as even last year.

I have a fact for you-Federer is 2009 RG champion.

Also according to you Nadal lost to a claycourt nobody.

drakulie
06-07-2009, 07:06 PM
Whether or not Federer beat some less-than-stellar competition, he proved he can beat everyone but the absolute best (a prime, healthy, and merciless Nadal) in Roland Garros in the last 5 years, so he's not coming out of nowhere and stealing a weak draw to win the French.


Get your head out of your rear and read this:

http://msn.foxsports.com/tennis/story/9583568/Federer-beats-Nadal-for-Madrid-title


BTW, in case you come back with some sort of excuse,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, my response to your post will be "federer was tired/sick every match he lost to Nadal".

Blinkism
06-07-2009, 07:10 PM
Get your head out of your rear and read this:

http://msn.foxsports.com/tennis/story/9583568/Federer-beats-Nadal-for-Madrid-title


BTW, in case you come back with some sort of excuse,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, my response to your post will be "federer was tired/sick every match he lost to Nadal".

Why the rudeness? All I said is whether or not you believe Fed had a cakewalk this FO (which I never said I did), he still proved he deserves to be the champion because of his RG results for the last 4 years.

I make no excuses, i'm not a troll like everyone who you think disagrees with you or has contrary views (even though I actually don't in this case, but you seem to think I do for some reason?).

Moral of the story is; I'm complimenting Federer. Get over it, Nadal fans are not the trolls you've built them up to be.

icedevil0289
06-07-2009, 07:11 PM
Why the rudeness? All I said is whether or not you believe Fed had a cakewalk this FO (which I never said I did), he still proved he deserves to be the champion because of his RG results for the last 4 years.

I make no excuses, i'm not a troll like everyone who you think disagrees with you or has contrary views (even though I actually don't in this case, but you seem to think I do for some reason?).

Moral of the story is; I'm complimenting Federer. Get over it, Nadal fans are not the trolls you've built them up to be.

http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/mtf/images/smilies/hug.gifhttp://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/mtf/images/smilies/smooch.gif

Man I just love using the emoticons from mtf :)

King of Aces
06-07-2009, 07:12 PM
If Roger is the #1 clay courter in the world then Nadal is the #1 grass and hard courter in the world.:shock:


.

zagor
06-07-2009, 07:13 PM
If Roger is the #1 clay courter in the world then Nadal is the #1 grass and hard courter in the world.:shock:


.

Right now,yes he is since he holds Wimbledon and AO titles.

zagor
06-07-2009, 07:14 PM
http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/mtf/images/smilies/hug.gifhttp://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/mtf/images/smilies/smooch.gif

Man I just love using the emoticons from mtf :)

What's a mtf?

Blinkism
06-07-2009, 07:15 PM
http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/mtf/images/smilies/hug.gifhttp://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/mtf/images/smilies/smooch.gif

Man I just love using the emoticons from mtf :)

Icedevil, good to hear from you!

How awesome was today? It was so touching I almost shed a tear, tell you what.

How'd you react? I'm assuming you haven't stopped smiling since?

Conquistador
06-07-2009, 07:15 PM
If Roger is the #1 clay courter in the world then Nadal is the #1 grass and hard courter in the world.:shock:


.

....................You can't be serious
http://is.blick.ch/img/gen/U/S/HBUS0lHI_Pxgen_r_370x354.jpg

fed_rulz
06-07-2009, 07:16 PM
What's a mtf?

it's another Tennis Forum for Men's

zagor
06-07-2009, 07:17 PM
....................You can't be serious
http://is.blick.ch/img/gen/U/S/HBUS0lHI_Pxgen_r_370x354.jpg

Yes he can and he's right,this year Nadal had best results on HC out of anyone on tour and is a currently defending Wimbledon champion.

GuillermoR
06-07-2009, 07:18 PM
What gets on my nerves is that every time Nadal loses, and he and his team decide to relay news about an injury, you:

a) Immediately believe it
b) Think it's something it's in favor of Nadal, when it's clearly against him.
c) If it is indeed true, he is proving to be unfit or doing more than his body allows it, which shows he's making poor career decisions. This is just as important as the game itself when it comes to a professional tennis career. Do you think ailing Nadal will ever have the chance to make it to 14 grand slams?

icedevil0289
06-07-2009, 07:20 PM
What's a mtf?
Mens tennis forum, another tennis forum, but that only discusses men's tennis. Quite entertaining once you get used to it. There is also individual player sections along with the general section so people can go and act like fangirls/fanboys all they want.
Icedevil, good to hear from you!

How awesome was today? It was so touching I almost shed a tear, tell you what.

How'd you react? I'm assuming you haven't stopped smiling since?

I didn't get to watch.:cry::cry: I was participating in this walk for breast cancer which happened to be at the same time as the final. I had my cousin update me. I kept calling every two minutes. Must have really annoyed her. I was so freaking nervous when she told me it was championship point and then when she told me he won, I was so freaking happy. I wanted to scream, but I think I would have scared the 100s of people walking with us.

zagor
06-07-2009, 07:21 PM
it's another Tennis Forum for Men's

Mens tennis forum, another tennis forum, but that only discusses men's tennis. Quite entertaining once you get used to it. There is also individual player sections along with the general section so people can go and act like fangirls/fanboys all they want.

Okay,thanks.

BullDogTennis
06-07-2009, 07:23 PM
Sorry that comment is a plain embarassment.

your saying that these people, are better than federer? if this video was posted in tennis tips and instructions and nobody knew who they were they'd be ranked 3.5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBaqY2Ojqo

callitout
06-07-2009, 07:29 PM
your saying that these people, are better than federer? if this video was posted in tennis tips and instructions and nobody knew who they were they'd be ranked 3.5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBaqY2Ojqo

that clip must be from a warm up. neither is trying to pull the other off the court..it looks like cooperative play. nice rallying though.

drakulie
06-07-2009, 07:31 PM
Why the rudeness? All I said is whether or not you believe Fed had a cakewalk this FO (which I never said I did), he still proved he deserves to be the champion because of his RG results for the last 4 years. What I said was a fact, that he could beat everyone but Nadal at the French Open. Last I checked, he's never done that.

I make no excuses, i'm not a troll like everyone who you think disagrees with you or has contrary views (even though I actually don't in this case, but you seem to think I do for some reason?).

Moral of the story is; I'm complimenting Federer. Get over it, Nadal fans are not the trolls you've built them up to be.

You're a troll is disguise, play both sides of the card and conveniently give backhand compliments while trying to sound nice.

Just know that I'm watching you, and you have been warned.

adidas_wilson
06-07-2009, 07:41 PM
Well if you're going to get technical with points you should give Rafa another 80 points for his 2 Davis Cup wins earlier in the year over Djokovic and Tipsarevic.

2. Nadal = 3360 points from five tournaments
180 (RG) + 600 (Madrid) + 1000 (Rome) + 500 (Barcelona) + 1000 (Monte-Carlo) + 80 (Davis Cup)
[B]

In fact, if Spain goes on to win the Davis Cup and plays at least 2 more rounds on clay, I think Rafa will either tie or overtake Federer. That is only assuming he plays and wins at least half, or better, of all the clay matches he can in the Davis Cup. And also, that's assuming Roger does not play any more matches on clay (which is very likely).

But, obviously, that's only a technicality.

Pulling at straws..

Davis Cup should be about honor. Not ranking points..

Blinkism
06-07-2009, 07:42 PM
You're a troll is disguise, play both sides of the card and conveniently give backhand compliments while trying to sound nice.

Just know that I'm watching you, and you have been warned.

I'm a troll in disguise? Because i'm a Nadal fan who compliments Federer but doesn't absolutely go overboard?

Look, i'm not going to qualify to you why i'm here to give congratulations to Federer, but I am going to say what I say about Federer is 100% sincere and I say it as an ex-Federer fan who is genuinely happy for what he's achieved.

I don't think it was very nice of you to attack my post where all I did was compliment Federer and try to defend him. Perhaps my phrasing is what made you misunderstand what I was saying, so i'll say it again.

Congratulations to Federer. For those who might think he had an easy FO draw, this is not true. Every draw for Federer seems like an easy draw because he is one of the best players to every step on a tennis court. If anyone deserves the French Open title, it's definitely Roger Federer. He showed real class and played some great tennis these last two weeks!

That being said, I obviously would have wanted Nadal to win (i'm a Nadal fan, duh!) but as soon as he lost in the 4th round it's been all about Federer for me.

I can see why you'd mistrust some of the things i'm saying, due to the high level of trollage on this forum, but I can assure you I am as much of a troll as you are (which is saying, not a troll).

icedevil0289
06-07-2009, 07:44 PM
I'm a troll in disguise? Because i'm a Nadal fan who compliments Federer but doesn't absolutely go overboard?

Look, i'm not going to qualify to you why I like Federer, but I am going to say what I say about Federer is 100% sincere and I say it as an ex-Federer fan who is genuinely happy for what he's achieved.

I don't think it was very nice of you to attack my post where all I did was compliment Federer and try to defend him. Perhaps my phrasing is what made you misunderstand what I was saying, so i'll say it again.

Congratulations to Federer. For those who might think he had an easy FO draw, this is not true. Every draw for Federer seems like an easy draw because he is one of the best players to every step on a tennis court. If anyone deserves the French Open title, it's definitely Roger Federer.

That being said, I obviously would have wanted Nadal to win (i'm a Nadal fan, duh!) but as soon as he lost in the 4th round it's been all about Federer for me.

I can see why you'd mistrust some of the things i'm saying, due to the high level of trollage on this forum, but I can assure you I am as much of a troll as you are (which is saying, not a troll).

You tell him Blinkism! http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/mtf/images/smilies/rocker2.gif

oh man I'm on such a high right now.

Ronny
06-07-2009, 07:47 PM
no, just no

drakulie
06-07-2009, 07:53 PM
I'm a troll in disguise?

Yes. The rest of your post is doo-doo.

Serendipitous
06-07-2009, 07:55 PM
^^^^^

Nice avatar!

icedevil0289
06-07-2009, 08:22 PM
Yes. The rest of your post is doo-doo.

drakulie hush. Blinkism is not a troll. I think you've had a bit too much to drink when celebrating fed's win.

tennisplaya
06-07-2009, 08:27 PM
Ofcourse hes the best on clay this year. With Nadals knee busted up at Madrid and Roland Garros, Federer has shown that hes the best of the rest without a doubt.

RoddickAce
06-07-2009, 08:41 PM
If Roger is the #1 clay courter in the world then Nadal is the #1 grass and hard courter in the world.:shock:


.

Isn't that what people said last year when Nadal won Wimbledon...and Nadal was rated #1 on grass by a lot of people in that thread about the top 5 players on grass, hard and clay courts.

Rhino
06-08-2009, 02:46 AM
If Roger is the #1 clay courter in the world then Nadal is the #1 grass and hard courter in the world.:shock:


.

I posted this thread because the clay-court season is (virtually) over.

We can't say who is the #1 grass-courter this year so far because it hasn't happened yet..... the first grass court matches just got underway today.
Let's see who is the best grass-courter this year after the Wimbledon final - it's not long to wait.

As for hard-courts. Yep, Nadal has it so far this year, although there are so many hard-court tournaments left that this will not be decided until the end of the year, or unless Nadal wins the US Open as well.

King of Aces
06-08-2009, 06:25 AM
I posted this thread because the clay-court season is (virtually) over.

We can't say who is the #1 grass-courter this year so far because it hasn't happened yet..... the first grass court matches just got underway today.
Let's see who is the best grass-courter this year after the Wimbledon final - it's not long to wait.

As for hard-courts. Yep, Nadal has it so far this year, although there are so many hard-court tournaments left that this will not be decided until the end of the year, or unless Nadal wins the US Open as well.

OK then we agree Nadal is the #1 hard court player this year.

Furthermore by your Logic Nadal was the GREATEST GRASS COURT PLAYER OF LAST YEAR>>>>>BETTER THAN EVEN ROGER FEDERER.

Say it !

cknobman
06-08-2009, 07:13 AM
OK then we agree Nadal is the #1 hard court player this year.

Furthermore by your Logic Nadal was the GREATEST GRASS COURT PLAYER OF LAST YEAR>>>>>BETTER THAN EVEN ROGER FEDERER.

Say it !

Nadal was better than Federer on grass, clay, and very close to Roger on hard in 2008.
Nadal was the clear #1 in 2008.

Very tall order to repeat.

Like I posted in a previous forum Nadal could very well no longer be #1 after Wimbledon, especially if his so called "knee injury" is real. Im not discrediting Nadal outright because it could in fact be real but my opinion(as well as some commentators) is that the withdrawl from Queens due to knee injury is more for time to regroup and heal the ego than it is because of a knee injury. Im mean Rafa's knees have been fine all year, so fine that he stopped wearing tape on them. There was no complaint of pain at all during the French (until of course he lost to Soderling).

King of Aces
06-08-2009, 07:32 AM
Nadal was better than Federer on grass, clay, and very close to Roger on hard in 2008.
Nadal was the clear #1 in 2008.

Very tall order to repeat.

Thats all Im saying. Nadal was the BEST GRASS COURT PLAYER, CLAY COURT PLAYER AND HARD COURT PLAYER OF 2008.

IN 2009 Nadal is so far the BEST HARD COURT PLAYER.

Benhur
06-08-2009, 08:16 AM
I agree. He has the best ranking on clay so far this year, by ATP points, and on that measure he is the best on clay this year.

I have no problem agreeing with that.

What is curious is a review of recent discussions involving the same topic.

As late as the end of 2008, the notion that the numer of points on any given surface had anything to do with how good a player was on that surface was widely considered preposterous.

For example, Nadal has been in the top 2-3 on both grass and hard courts for a number of years.

By the end of October 2008, he had clearly the best record on hard courts and grass for that year -- let alone clay. In fact, his margin on hard courts over Federer was much larger than the margin being discussed here for clay in 2009.

Yet the bulk of the discussions in some of those threads, was not whether he might be the best hard courter that year (God forbid!) but whether he even belonged in the top 5!!

See for example this thread, where some highly entertaining comments can be enjoyed for their unmatched absurdity.

http://tinyurl.com/m525xq

coloskier
06-08-2009, 08:47 AM
I have to disagree, even though I prefer Fed to Nadal. Saying that Fed is the #1 clay courter is like saying the Nadal is the #1 grass courter. Each of them only have ONE win against each other in the past year on these courts. Fed leads Nadal in overall grass court wins (against EVERYONE) by a huge margin. Nadal leads Fed overall in clay court wins (against EVERYONE) by a huge margin. One loss does not drop you to 2nd place in both cases. When Fed has 4 GS wins against Nadal on clay, then Fed is #1 on clay. When Nadal has 4 wins against Fed on grass, then Nadal in #1 on grass.

Rhino
06-08-2009, 08:51 AM
By the end of October 2008, he had clearly the best record on hard courts and grass for that year -- let alone clay. In fact, his margin on hard courts over Federer was much larger than the margin being discussed here for clay in 2009.

Yet the bulk of the discussions in some of those threads, was not whether he might be the best hard courter that year (God forbid!) but whether he even belonged in the top 5!!


Well that makes sense. The best hardcourter discussion on any given year will immediately look to the US Open and the Australian Open to see who is the best. Nadal wasn't even in the final of either of those events in 2008, so of course people would pick from Federer or Djokovic.

zagor
06-08-2009, 09:03 AM
I agree. He has the best ranking on clay so far this year, by ATP points, and on that measure he is the best on clay this year.

I have no problem agreeing with that.

What is curious is a review of recent discussions involving the same topic.

As late as the end of 2008, the notion that the numer of points on any given surface had anything to do with how good a player was on that surface was widely considered preposterous.

For example, Nadal has been in the top 2-3 on both grass and hard courts for a number of years.

By the end of October 2008, he had clearly the best record on hard courts and grass for that year -- let alone clay. In fact, his margin on hard courts over Federer was much larger than the margin being discussed here for clay in 2009.

Yet the bulk of the discussions in some of those threads, was not whether he might be the best hard courter that year (God forbid!) but whether he even belonged in the top 5!!

See for example this thread, where some highly entertaining comments can be enjoyed for their unmatched absurdity.

http://tinyurl.com/m525xq

Actually I don't think that Fed is number one claycourter this year because of points he accumulated on that surface but rather because he won FO.

FO is the main deal of clay season as far as I'm concerned,Fed winning Madrid is just an icing on the cake.

The reason that I didn't consider Nadal to be the best HC last year is because he didn't even reach finals at AO and USO let alone won either of them.

Rhino
06-08-2009, 09:52 AM
I have to disagree, even though I prefer Fed to Nadal. Saying that Fed is the #1 clay courter is like saying the Nadal is the #1 grass courter.

Dude this is not about opinions. Federer has done better on clay this year than any other player. FACT! Nadal went out in the 4th round of the biggest clay court event this year. If he was the best claycourter this year he would've won it, or at least made the final.
And just to seal the deal, Federer has played Nadal once this year on clay - and beaten him.
There is no other logical conclusion to draw except that Federer is the #1 clay-courter of 2009.
What more proof do you need exactly?

tahiti
06-08-2009, 10:28 AM
That's why it took him 4 years to finally the final I suppose?

joeri888
06-08-2009, 10:47 AM
Actually I don't think that Fed is number one claycourter this year because of points he accumulated on that surface but rather because he won FO.

FO is the main deal of clay season as far as I'm concerned,Fed winning Madrid is just an icing on the cake.

The reason that I didn't consider Nadal to be the best HC last year is because he didn't even reach finals at AO and USO let alone won either of them.

+ 1,

Rafa didn't win a Slam, it's all about Slams. Olympics are fun, but they are no Slams. Djokovic had a strong case for being the best hardcourt player by winning IW, AO, and TMC. As well as winning the bronze medal at the olympics and making semifinals at the US Open

veroniquem
06-08-2009, 11:06 AM
He is not and he will probably never be. He's an all-courter in the sense that he doesn't really have a weak surface but there's a difference between saying that and saying he's the best clay courter.
The current best clay courter has 5 Monte-Carlo titles, 5 Barcelona titles, 4 Rome titles and 4 RG titles.
Of course Fed is having his best season on clay this year thanks to winning RG but he won the RG title against an inexperienced finalist with no expertise (no prior title or even final) on clay. To me that will never be the same as winning it by beating the best player on the surface (as Rafa did in Wimbledon), far from it.

DTLshot
06-08-2009, 11:08 AM
Yes. The rest of your post is doo-doo.

Did you realize you have "lowered" your level to a troll while spending too much time fighting with troll-ism on this board?

You need to wake up and be a tennis fan again, you are making the situation worse than better.

joeri888
06-08-2009, 11:08 AM
He is not and he will probably never be. He's an all-courter in the sense that he doesn't really have a weak surface but there's a difference between saying that and saying he's the best clay courter.
The current best clay courter has 5 Monte-Carlo titles, 5 Barcelona titles, 4 Rome titles and 4 RG titles.
Of course Fed is having his best season on clay this year thanks to winning RG but he won the RG title against an inexperienced finalist with no expertise (no prior title or even final) on clay. To me that will never be the same as winning it by beating the best player on the surface (as Rafa did in Wimbledon), far from it.

You can think that.. I think it doesn't matter who you play. Rafa is a far more achieved claycourter, but Roger had the better clayseason. Pretty much like Roger's the more achieved grasscourter

mandy01
06-08-2009, 11:10 AM
He is not and he will probably never be. He's an all-courter in the sense that he doesn't really have a weak surface but there's a difference between saying that and saying he's the best clay courter.
The current best clay courter has 5 Monte-Carlo titles, 5 Barcelona titles, 4 Rome titles and 4 RG titles.
Of course Fed is having his best season on clay this year thanks to winning RG but he won the RG title against an inexperienced finalist with no expertise (no prior title or even final) on clay. To me that will never be the same as winning it by beating the best player on the surface (as Rafa did in Wimbledon), far from it. Yes,he was consistent enough to reach 20 GS finals and others werent and are yet to be ( not that they never will be,just stating a fact) so he won.

drakulie
06-08-2009, 11:16 AM
He is not and he will probably never be. He's an all-courter in the sense that he doesn't really have a weak surface but there's a difference between saying that and saying he's the best clay courter.
The current best clay courter has 5 Monte-Carlo titles, 5 Barcelona titles, 4 Rome titles and 4 RG titles.
Of course Fed is having his best season on clay this year thanks to winning RG but he won the RG title against an inexperienced finalist with no expertise (no prior title or even final) on clay. To me that will never be the same as winning it by beating the best player on the surface (as Rafa did in Wimbledon), far from it.

So judging from your post, Nadal isn't really a great clay courter being that his prime opponent on the surface isn't that great on clay to begin with.

Thanks!!! You're really smooth.

Rhino
06-08-2009, 11:17 AM
He is not and he will probably never be. He's an all-courter in the sense that he doesn't really have a weak surface but there's a difference between saying that and saying he's the best clay courter.
The current best clay courter has 5 Monte-Carlo titles, 5 Barcelona titles, 4 Rome titles and 4 RG titles.
Of course Fed is having his best season on clay this year thanks to winning RG but he won the RG title against an inexperienced finalist with no expertise (no prior title or even final) on clay. To me that will never be the same as winning it by beating the best player on the surface (as Rafa did in Wimbledon), far from it.

I don't think you understand this thread. Read my original post for clarification. It is not "Roger is the best claycourter between 2005 and 2008". That would of course be Rafa. It is "Roger Federer is the #1 clay-courter in the world" IN 2009.
If Rafa is the best, then why did he lose to Roger during their only clay encounter this year? ...and why did he not even make the last eight of Roland Garros? Just asking.

bolo
06-08-2009, 11:25 AM
Most points on clay this year. That's a nice accomplishment. But ofcourse nadal will again be the heavy favorite entering RG next year.

drakulie
06-08-2009, 11:35 AM
^^^I would agree, but it depends how he does leading up to the French.

Benhur
06-08-2009, 11:41 AM
Well that makes sense. The best hardcourter discussion on any given year will immediately look to the US Open and the Australian Open to see who is the best. Nadal wasn't even in the final of either of those events in 2008, so of course people would pick from Federer or Djokovic.

You are being inconsistent with the very facts that you present as evidence in your first two posts on this thread, namely that Federer has the most ranking points on clay. If you don't think the numbers matter, but only performance in slams, then why take that angle on this thread?

I like the number counting because it *already* factors in the much heavier weight of slams vs master level tournaments, so the difference is already reflected.

Federer this year is ahead of Nadal on clay by 90 points.

Last year, as of October, Nadal was ahead of Federer by 815 points, which would be 1630 points today. That's 18 times greater than the 90-point margin you are presenting as evidence.

To sum, presenting the current (and very slight) lead by Federer in number of clay points as evidence of his being better on clay this year, while simultaneously dismissing the hugely larger lead by Nadal in hard court points last year, is not precisely a monument to coherent thinking. And I repeat, whatever their difference in slam performance, that difference is already factored in the points, with slams counting at least double the points of masters. If you are one of those who believe that points outside slams are irrelevant, then you should not present the total points as evidence of anything. Make up your mind.

Rhino
06-08-2009, 12:09 PM
You are being inconsistent with the very facts that you present as evidence in your first two posts on this thread, namely that Federer has the most ranking points on clay. If you don't think the numbers matter, but only performance in slams, then why take that angle on this thread?

Look he has the most ranking points AND he won RG. BOTH are evidence, no?
This is a clear cut case. He is number one because of the points and because of the slam. This is not a Gaudio situation where tennis purists might say Coria was the best claycourter of 2004. I actually think the slam matters the most actually, but the ranking points are interesting because Federer has been gaining on Nadal on clay for the last two or three years point-wise, and now he has finally overtaken him. Hence this thread.

I like the number counting
Great, so tell me, is he number one or did I miss-calculate?

Last year, as of October, Nadal was ahead of Federer by 815 points, which would be 1630 points today. That's 18 times greater than the 90-point margin you are presenting as evidence.

Wtf?

In 2007 Roger earned 1625 points from the clay season.
In 2007 Nadal earned 2650 points from the clay season.

In 2008 Roger earned 1700 points from the clay season.
In 2008 Nadal earned 2305 points from the clay season.

To sum, presenting the current (and very slight) lead by Federer in number of clay points as evidence of his being better on clay this year, while simultaneously dismissing the hugely larger lead by Nadal in hard court points last year, is not precisely a monument to coherent thinking. And I repeat, whatever their difference in slam performance, that difference is already factored in the points, with slams counting at least double the points of masters. If you are one of those who believe that points outside slams are irrelevant, then you should not present the total points as evidence of anything. Make up your mind.

The points AND the slam are the evidence. The difference is that the slam is subjective. It is OPINION as to whether it constitutes enough evidence. I wanted to provide the points to back up that opinion with facts because the two together are indefensible. All bases are covererd.
Yes actually I do dismiss that larger 2008 hard-court lead because it was FAR from a clear cut case when he didn't even get to the final of either hard-court slam. It's like is Safina the true number one right now. Some would say yes, some would say Serena. Here there is no confusion. Roger has the slam, Roger has the points.

flying24
06-08-2009, 02:13 PM
He is not and he will probably never be. He's an all-courter in the sense that he doesn't really have a weak surface but there's a difference between saying that and saying he's the best clay courter.
The current best clay courter has 5 Monte-Carlo titles, 5 Barcelona titles, 4 Rome titles and 4 RG titles.
Of course Fed is having his best season on clay this year thanks to winning RG but he won the RG title against an inexperienced finalist with no expertise (no prior title or even final) on clay. To me that will never be the same as winning it by beating the best player on the surface (as Rafa did in Wimbledon), far from it.

You are right since it is better to lose in the final of Wimbledon (Federer last year) than lose in the 4th round of the French (Nadal this year). Also losing the finals of Wimbledon once to is enough to lose the mantle of best grass courter according to you even with around 5 times the career victories on the surface when it is to your beloved Rafa, but losing the 4th round of the French isnt enough to lose that present mantle with around 5 times the career victories on the surface when it is your beloved Rafa. Thanks again for your usual astounding logic. :lol:

Perhaps you can also return to your desperate promotion of Nadal as the best hard court player in the World for 2008 without even reaching a hard court slam final, alot of based on buffing up the significance of the Olympics which the ATP doesnt even award the same points as a Masters event, and which has a star role of champions in its very short history like Massu and Rosset, and medalists like Aresse, Cherkasov, Di Pasquale, Paes (singles not doubles), and Fish. That was amusing as well.

Turning Pro
06-08-2009, 04:50 PM
Another fact. nadal is the best clay courter ever(besides borg) and will be better than roger EVER will be. 9-2, 4-0.Nadal will always own Federer. *Waits for *******s * lol

drakulie
06-08-2009, 04:55 PM
nadal is the best clay courter ever(besides borg)


so is he the best or not??? or are you saying he is the second best???

Aabye
06-08-2009, 05:00 PM
Yes, according to the results in the OP, Roger Federer is the best claycourter of the year. He is not, as the title of this thread suggests, the best claycourter in the world. That would be Nadal, end story.

Benhur
06-09-2009, 05:27 AM
Originally Posted by Benhur
Last year, as of October, Nadal was ahead of Federer by 815 points, which would be 1630 points today. That's 18 times greater than the 90-point margin you are presenting as evidence.



Wtf?

In 2008 Roger earned 1700 points from the clay season.
In 2008 Nadal earned 2305 points from the clay season.


The numbers in my post refer to hard court points as of Oct 2008.
And the point is that if a 90 point lead on clay this year is presented, by you, as evidence of better performance on clay (which it is) then surely a 1630 point lead on hard courts last year cannot be easily dismissed, it being 18 times larger than the one you present.

You keep bringing up the greater importance of the slams in the final counting. I've already mentioned that their much greater importance is already reflected in the ranking points allotted. If you think that's not enough, and points outside slams don't matter, then of course there is nothing to discuss. But in that case, all points from events other than slams should be taken out, and the rankings of all players rearranged accordingly every week of every year well into the beginning of the ranking systems. No exceptions. I do agree with your assessment that Federer's performance on clay is better this year - by 90 points (45 points last year). A very slim, but nontheless real difference. Had Nadal won Madrid, and everything else been the same, he would have been ahead by a few hundred points, and then I also would have thought the points reflected the difference in performance pretty well. On the other hand, with your system, you can win MC, Rome, Barcelona, Madrid and whatever else you wish to add. If someone else wins RG, he's first by default. That of course I consider utter bunkum. And that of course is a only a matter of opinion, like most everything else.

Rhino
06-09-2009, 06:45 AM
^^^ look did you actually read my response? I said the points AND the slam are the evidence together.

Also, this is not "my system", it is the ATP's system.

And yes, if Rafa had won Madrid, etc, etc... but this is not about if's and but's is it?

I'm just saying that right now Roger Federer is the #1 clay-courter in the world due to the fact that he won Roland Garros and has the most points. How is that wrong?

Aabye
06-09-2009, 10:41 AM
^^^ look did you actually read my response? I said the points AND the slam are the evidence together.

Also, this is not "my system", it is the ATP's system.

And yes, if Rafa had won Madrid, etc, etc... but this is not about if's and but's is it?

I'm just saying that right now Roger Federer is the #1 clay-courter in the world due to the fact that he won Roland Garros and has the most points. How is that wrong?

It isn't. But that would mean, Nadal is the best grass and hard court player in the world right now, based on the results of the past year. After Wimby this may change.

zagor
06-09-2009, 10:47 AM
It isn't. But that would mean, Nadal is the best grass and hard court player in the world right now, based on the results of the past year. After Wimby this may change.

That is true actually,Nadal holds AO and Wimbledon titles currently.Still for HC there's USO,Toronto,Cinncinati,Madrid,Paris and Masters Cup before the end of the year so that may change but at the moment Nadal is the best HC player in the world,no question-AO+IW,nobody comes close to matching those results on HC.

Benhur
06-10-2009, 07:07 AM
[QUOTE=Rhino;3539635]^^^ look did you actually read my response? I said the points AND the slam are the evidence together.

Also, this is not "my system", it is the ATP's system.


No. It's your system. In the ATP system, if a player has a 1630 point lead over another, he is definitely ahead of the other. The only thing the system requires is that the reader know how to count. In your system, 1630 points can be read as 0, or even as minus 1630, if the other player has happened to win a slam. That's why I say it is your system. It exists in your head. The ATP has no such system.

And yes, if Rafa had won Madrid, etc, etc... but this is not about if's and but's is it?

The point of the Madrid "if" was only to show that IF he had won Madrid he would have been ahead in the ATP system by a few hundred points (on clay) but he would not have been ahead in your system, where only slams count. I have to assume this would be your position because, if you don't believe a 1630 point lead qualifies a player as having a better performance than another, then why would you think so for a much smaller lead?


I'm just saying that right now Roger Federer is the #1 clay-courter in the world due to the fact that he won Roland Garros and has the most points. How is that wrong?

It's not wrong. It is right, because of the lead in ranking points, which by the way is the only point in your first two posts on this thread (the OP and post number 4).

Thus when someone mentioned your assessment was only a matter of opinion, you said, in post 4:

This isn't about opinions, it's about facts. Do you dispute the list? He has achieved more ranking points than Nadal on clay this year.


That's very accurate. The slam requirement is something you added only much later in the thread, when the implications of going only by ranking points where brought up and did not please you, because of course your own question can be fairly returned to you with profitable interest: '"Do you dispute that achieving 1630 more ranking points on hard courts in 2008 means that he has achieved more ranking points on hard courts in 2008?"?

If you don't dispute it, why do you think 90 points do what 1630 cannot?

Ah, because they include a slam, you will now say.

But, my dear Doctor, I have already told you many many times that the slam's much heftier weight is already factored in the counting. If your point now is that non-slam points should count for nothing, then why on earth did you start this thread by counting them? And why did you clearly confirm your point in your second post, as quoted above?

And thus we keep skipping and singing merrily round and round the rosies.

veroniquem
06-10-2009, 08:30 AM
Well Nadal wasn't able to finish the clay court season as well as he started it. Kudos to Fed for taking full advantage of it. That shows he's a real champion.
Yes the slam is what matters the most. If consistency over the season is any indicator though, Nadal is still by far the most competent clay player: 4 finals is better than 2.

rommil
06-10-2009, 09:20 AM
Well Nadal wasn't able to finish the clay court season as well as he started it. Kudos to Fed for taking full advantage of it. That shows he's a real champion.
Yes the slam is what matters the most. If consistency over the season is any indicator though, Nadal is still by far the most competent clay player: 4 finals is better than 2.

Yeah that is an amazing feat considering he is "crippled".

drakulie
06-10-2009, 09:21 AM
^^^Who cares about number of finals.

IN the end, what is remembered is Fed beat Nadal in the Madrid Final ending his streak, and Won The FO.

That is a greater clay court result for the year.

rommil
06-10-2009, 09:24 AM
^^^Who cares about number of finals.

IN the end, what is remembered is Fed beat Nadal in the Madrid Final ending his streak, and Won The FO.

That is a greater clay court result for the year.

No Drak I think what we should look at is the gall and travesty that Federer and Soderling had the nerve to beat a "crippled" player.

veroniquem
06-10-2009, 09:30 AM
Yeah that is an amazing feat considering he is "crippled".
That was an amazing feat period, especially since his Monte-Carlo title was his 5th consecutive, his Barcelona title his 5th consecutive as well and his Rome title his 4th.
Talking about feats, get back to me about the amazing Federer clay court prodigy when he scores his 4th RG title or if he ever wins a single Rome, Monte-Carlo or Barcelona title. Until then and with all due respect to Fed's talent, I 'm still more impressed by Nadal's clay court achievements.

JeMar
06-10-2009, 09:32 AM
That was an amazing feat period, especially since his Monte-Carlo title was his 5th consecutive, his Barcelona title his 5th consecutive as well and his Rome title his 4th.
Talking about feats, get back to me about the amazing Federer clay court prodigy when he scores his 4th RG title or if he ever wins a single Rome, Monte-Carlo or Barcelona title. Until then and with all due respect to Fed's talent, I 'm still more impressed by Nadal's clay court achievements.

I think he's more comfortable with his 5 U.S. Opens, 5 Wimbledons, 3 Aussie Opens, and his new French Open.

As far as this year goes, the title probably has to go to Federer. I'm sure Nadal would trade in all those clay tournaments he's won this year for another French Open.

rommil
06-10-2009, 09:34 AM
That was an amazing feat period, especially since his Monte-Carlo title was his 5th consecutive, his Barcelona title his 5th consecutive as well and his Rome title his 4th.
Talking about feats, get back to me about the amazing Federer clay court prodigy when he scores his 4th RG title or if he ever wins a single Rome, Monte-Carlo or Barcelona title. Until then and with all due respect to Fed's talent, I 'm still more impressed by Nadal's clay court achievements.

It is obvious that you gravitates towards dirt, err clay.

veroniquem
06-10-2009, 09:35 AM
I think he's more comfortable with his 5 U.S. Opens, 5 Wimbledons, 3 Aussie Opens, and his new French Open.

As far as this year goes, the title probably has to go to Federer. I'm sure Nadal would trade in all those clay tournaments he's won this year for another French Open.
This thread is about "#1 clay-courter in the world". No doubt Fed's overall resume is way ahead of Nadal's at this point, but as a clay-courter? Let's be serious.

JeMar
06-10-2009, 09:37 AM
This thread is about "#1 clay-courter in the world". No doubt Fed's overall resume is way ahead of Nadal's at this point, but as a clay-courter? Let's be serious.

I think he's more comfortable with his 5 U.S. Opens, 5 Wimbledons, 3 Aussie Opens, and his new French Open.

As far as this year goes, the title probably has to go to Federer. I'm sure Nadal would trade in all those clay tournaments he's won this year for another French Open.

Hence the second part.

rommil
06-10-2009, 09:42 AM
This thread is about "#1 clay-courter in the world". No doubt Fed's overall resume is way ahead of Nadal's at this point, but as a clay-courter? Let's be serious.

Well for this year so far, Roger has better clay court accomplishment than Rafa.

Tennis_Bum
06-10-2009, 09:51 AM
^^^ look did you actually read my response? I said the points AND the slam are the evidence together.

Also, this is not "my system", it is the ATP's system.

And yes, if Rafa had won Madrid, etc, etc... but this is not about if's and but's is it?

I'm just saying that right now Roger Federer is the #1 clay-courter in the world due to the fact that he won Roland Garros and has the most points. How is that wrong?

Well, well, had Nadal won the FO this year, the ***** would not be bringing up other clay court results and would talk endlessly about how Fed would never win FO as long as Nadal is around. Well, guess what, Nadal entered the FO in great form after he said that the loss in Madrid didn't count as far as the scheme of FO. Look at what happened. Nadal lost in the 4th round to a guy he hated so much, granted Soderling hated Nadal just as much as Nadal hated him. But Nadal lost in the 4th round. Wow, the king of clay lost in the fourth round. I know I repeated that a few times already but I couldn't help it. Perhaps, Nadal isn't so great after all. All his "golden" retrieving didn't help him there? What happened? Was he injured? NO! Was he playing at high altitude? NO! Was he fatigue? NO!

Then what happened? Oh, I got it. The crowd didn't support poor Nadal when Soderling was beating the crap out of him. Damn those French crowd. Why didn't they support poor Nadal. I feel so bad for Nadal. Had the French crowd supported him, if he lost he would not use that as an excuse. Now, he's hiding from the press by not playing Queens and practicing really hard. I highly doubt that Nadal is injured at all. Nadal and his team is doing the PR again as usual. But I can be wrong.

EtePras
06-10-2009, 10:09 AM
Funny thread. I think Nadal has Federer beat on both hard court and grass points, which makes it even more ironic.

zagor
06-10-2009, 10:11 AM
Funny thread. I think Nadal has Federer beat on both hard court and grass points, which makes it even more ironic.

Nope,not idiotic at all.This year Fed has best results on clay by far which makes him #1 for this year.Similar to that so far Nadal has best results on HC this year by far(AO+IW)so he's the best HC player for this year,atleast so far as there's also USO series to be played this year.

Add to that,Nadal was the best grasscourt player last year because he won Wimbledon.

EtePras
06-10-2009, 10:13 AM
Nope,not idiotic at all.This year Fed has best results on clay by far which makes him #1 for this year.Similar to that so far Nadal has best results on HC this year by far(AO+IW)so he's the best HC player for this year,atleast so far as there's also USO series to be played this year.

Add to that,Nadal was the best grasscourt player last year because he won Wimbledon.

Ironic, not idiotic.

Rhino
06-10-2009, 10:21 AM
Benhur, I can barely be bothered replying. I presented the facts so that there could be no arguement. But yes, now that you - or whoever it was - mentions it, winning RG is also a great way (perhaps even the best way) to further add weight to the title of this thread. Thank-you to whoever brought that up!
Why (oh why) are you trying to make this into an arguement? You say:

It's not wrong. It is right, because of the lead in ranking points,
Great! So whats the problem? You think this is my special system designed to twist facts? Do you think I'm the first person to break down ranking points into surfaces? The ATP break down win/loss records for every player on their website into the different surfaces because it's helpful to see where a player is strongest. When did I say "non-slam points should count for nothing"?? The very first post is full of non-slam points counting for something!
You are chasing your tail my friend. All I am saying is that Roger Federer is the #1 clay-courter in the world; to which you reply...

That's very accurate.
Awesome. So what the heck is the problem?

Rhino
06-10-2009, 10:28 AM
It isn't. But that would mean, Nadal is the best grass and hard court player in the world right now, based on the results of the past year. After Wimby this may change.

Well right now people are earning grass-court points at Halle and Queens. Lets's make an assessment about the "#1 grass-courter in the world right now" after Wimbledon shall we?