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View Full Version : Balls used at RG this year, a disadvantage for players using a lot of spin ?


nothingfails
06-08-2009, 01:17 PM
Vilas said that because the balls used this year are heavier it is more difficult to put spin into the ball. On the other hand it favoured players hitting flat (like Soderling). Is this true, were the balls really heavier this year ? Maybe it in not a far-fectched theory as there was only 1 Spaniard in the quarters this year.

Nadal_Freak
06-08-2009, 01:18 PM
The balls were smaller and easier to crank according to McEnroe. He also said these were one of the fastest balls he's ever played with. I'm not sure about the weight but it didn't seem to take spin as well as in the past.

ghostbear
06-08-2009, 01:19 PM
Don't know. But J-Mac said the new balls were the fastest he's ever seen at the FO. Who knows if he was talking out of his ass?

RalphNYC
06-08-2009, 01:19 PM
Supposedly these balls absolutely wreak havoc on the knees.

Nadal_Freak
06-08-2009, 01:20 PM
Also to mention is they didn't have as much top layer clay this year. They really wanted to speed up the conditions with the courts and balls. It plays like a high bouncing hard court now.

batz
06-08-2009, 01:21 PM
Pat Cash during commentary at Queen's:

"The balls here are like lead in comparison to the Roland Garros balls - they were like bullets".

thejoe
06-08-2009, 01:21 PM
Also to mention is they didn't have as much top layer clay this year. They really wanted to speed up the conditions with the courts and balls. It plays like a high bouncing hard court now.

I think they did. It was just windy beyond belief.

sureshs
06-08-2009, 01:22 PM
So, let me get this right: the court was sped up by using less clay, and smaller, faster balls were used. What were the reasons for these changes and were they made known prior to their implementation? Seems like a big conspiracy to me.

theduh
06-08-2009, 01:37 PM
So, let me get this right: the court was sped up by using less clay, and smaller, faster balls were used. What were the reasons for these changes and were they made known prior to their implementation? Seems like a big conspiracy to me.

Yes this is true! And this sport is no longer called tennis, it's now table tennis!

theduh
06-08-2009, 01:39 PM
Crap load of non-sense! Did you guys watched the same FO I watched this year? It's the same tournament, same court, okay given new balls but have you guys ever considered the weather? It was blowing like there's no tomorrow for the entire 2 weeks.

Nadal_Freak
06-08-2009, 01:42 PM
Crap load of non-sense! Did you guys watched the same FO I watched this year? It's the same tournament, same court, okay given new balls but have you guys ever considered the weather? It was blowing like there's no tomorrow for the entire 2 weeks.
Grounds crew is supposed to replace the clay. It seemed like they decided they wanted it to be a little faster and decided not to do it.

theduh
06-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Grounds crew is supposed to replace the clay. It seemed like they decided they wanted it to be a little faster and decided not to do it.

Where did you get this information? Please don't tell me it came from jmac?

Nadal_Freak
06-08-2009, 01:46 PM
Where did you get this information? Please don't tell me it came from jmac?
You can tell from watching it on tv. The clay was very thin and seemed very slippery for Nadal. Hard court movers like Roddick and Del Potro found it more comfortable to play their usual game.

Winners or Errors
06-08-2009, 01:50 PM
I love these conspiracy threads with no links and no supporting information whatsoever. Links please, if you want anyone to take you the least bit seriously. I'd love to see a link citing a groundskeeper or tennis ball manufacturer, by the way, not one to Vilas guessing the balls are heavy or small. Heck, even a copy of a receipt or order stating the specifications for the balls would be useful. Credible sources. At this point, all of the whiners about this conspiracy have NONE. ZIP. ZERO. NADA. Where are they?

theduh
06-08-2009, 01:50 PM
You can tell from watching it on tv. The clay was very thin and seemed very slippery for Nadal. Hard court movers like Roddick and Del Potro found it more comfortable to play their usual game.

OMG here you go again with the TV angle and views. It's not only Nadal who slipped on court, there are a lot of players slipping and honestly I do not know why.

Until proven other wise by means of facts, my views will not change.

h7hugo
06-08-2009, 01:52 PM
no. Federer plays with a lot of spin, and he didn't have any problem!

jmverdugo
06-08-2009, 01:53 PM
The only difference with this year is that the weather was dryer so the air was less humid and the first layer of clay didnt last that much because of the wind. So you would have to put God on that conspiracy too.

Nadal is a good player he can adapt himself to basically any court surface so stop the nonsense, the only acceptable reason why he lost is that Soderling was the better olayer that day. It happens, you can say it has something tod with his knees (which I beleive is the real reason) but is all part of the game, if you go to play knowing you have a pain in your knee you have to know it will bother you while playing, you cant come after the game saying that you lost because of the pain, if this is the case then do not play in the first place. Nadal fans shuold act more like him and stop the excuses and recognize he is human too.

The tennis guy
06-08-2009, 01:53 PM
You can tell from watching it on tv. The clay was very thin and seemed very slippery for Nadal. Hard court movers like Roddick and Del Potro found it more comfortable to play their usual game.

Give us a break. You are demeaning Nadal's achievement. He won Australian Open on hardcourt, won Wimbledon on grass, he could certainly win on clay court with less clay as you claimed.

There is no grand slam event that has same court and same ball. They change every year. Natural surface changes even more due to sensitivity to weather.

Nellie
06-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Balls do change year to year. In talking to my Head/Penn rep, all of the balls for the year are brought by boat in a huge crate from Asian. the balls are over inflated, deflate to normal levels while being brought to Europe/USA, and then packaged. If the balls stay at sea too long (e.g., hit a storm, get stuck in custumes, etc.), they are dead for the year. If the boat gets there fast, the balls are hard and fast for the year.

theduh
06-08-2009, 02:03 PM
Balls do change year to year. In talking to my Head/Penn rep, all of the balls for the year are brought by boat in a huge crate from Asian. the balls are over inflated, deflate to normal levels while being brought to Europe/USA, and then packaged. If the balls stay at sea too long (e.g., hit a storm, get stuck in custumes, etc.), they are dead for the year. If the boat gets there fast, the balls are hard and fast for the year.

That is why there are QA's and tennis ball specifications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_ball#Pressure-less_balls

So to claim that the ball has less weight, smaller, etc, etc, etc is completely stupid and ludicrous.

AAAA
06-08-2009, 02:16 PM
So, let me get this right: the court was sped up by using less clay, and smaller, faster balls were used. What were the reasons for these changes

After helping Nadal for 4 years they decided to help other players for a change.

theduh
06-08-2009, 02:17 PM
After helping Nadal for 4 years they decided to help other players for a change.

This is one way of looking at it LOL!

samster
06-08-2009, 02:18 PM
Supposedly these balls absolutely wreak havoc on the knees.

RalphNYC,

The [k]lay with nanotechnology messed up the knees.

theduh
06-08-2009, 02:20 PM
^^^ You mean [K]arophite Black :D

Nadal_Freak
06-08-2009, 02:22 PM
Give us a break. You are demeaning Nadal's achievement. He won Australian Open on hardcourt, won Wimbledon on grass, he could certainly win on clay court with less clay as you claimed.

There is no grand slam event that has same court and same ball. They change every year. Natural surface changes even more due to sensitivity to weather.

Nadal could play on ice courts as well. It doesn't make it right that they made this change at this point to suit Federer and big servers. I'm not too sure about the balls changing so much each year. This year was way faster though.

JeMar
06-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Both players have to deal with the same court, so this is really a moot point. I didn't hear you complaining this much about the speed of Wimbledon's grass.

Nadal_Freak
06-08-2009, 02:25 PM
Both players have to deal with the same court, so this is really a moot point. I didn't hear you complaining this much about the speed of Wimbledon's grass.
I just don't like when my beloved clay courts don't play traditional to how a clay court should play like. This isn't just about Nadal. It's about ruining clay courts with more ball bashing that should only be apart of hardcourt tennis. :(

JeMar
06-08-2009, 02:27 PM
I just don't like when my beloved clay courts don't play traditional to how a clay court should play like. This isn't just about Nadal. It's about ruining clay courts with more ball bashing that should only be apart of hardcourt tennis. :(

I just don't like when my beloved grass courts don't play traditional to how a grass court should play like. This isn't just about Federer and other offensive players. It's about ruining grass with more retrieving and defense that should only be a part of slow hard courts and clay courts.

Nadal_Freak
06-08-2009, 02:29 PM
I just don't like when my beloved grass courts don't play traditional to how a grass court should play like. This isn't just about Federer and other offensive players. It's about ruining grass with more retrieving and defense that should only be a part of slow hard courts and clay courts.

Alright fair enough. I heard they are speeding up the grass this year. RG needs to go back to the way it should play though.

JeMar
06-08-2009, 02:30 PM
If they speed the grass up like they say they will, I will be the first person next year that demands for slow courts at Roland Garros.

Pidgeon
06-08-2009, 02:33 PM
what the hell is this ?
conspiracy theories ?
ok they might have made some changes with the balls etc
but its still tennis and the changes go for everybody !!
the reason why nadal lost is because he didnt play well ! point final
im not a fed or nad fan i just enjoy the tennis
and these theories are just lame, sorry

rod99
06-08-2009, 03:09 PM
the french tennis federation generally asks the french players how they would like the court to play in order to help them. this is a fact. tsonga, simon, and monfils play better on faster surfaces and thus, the court this year reflected that.

sureshs
06-08-2009, 03:45 PM
what the hell is this ?
conspiracy theories ?
ok they might have made some changes with the balls etc
but its still tennis and the changes go for everybody !!
the reason why nadal lost is because he didnt play well ! point final
im not a fed or nad fan i just enjoy the tennis
and these theories are just lame, sorry

The first time such theories surfaced were when Federer lost to Nadal in Wimbledon. There was lot of talk about how the grass was slowed down and how different surfaces should retain their individuality. Now the coin is flipped, that is all.

Fedace
06-08-2009, 03:48 PM
The balls were smaller and easier to crank according to McEnroe. He also said these were one of the fastest balls he's ever played with. I'm not sure about the weight but it didn't seem to take spin as well as in the past.

Well.. No wonder Rafa lost...

fed_rulz
06-08-2009, 03:49 PM
The first time such theories surfaced were when Federer lost to Nadal in Wimbledon. There was lot of talk about how the grass was slowed down and how different surfaces should retain their individuality. Now the coin is flipped, that is all.

I've been hearing of the "grass" slowing down theory since 2006, when Nadal made it to the finals. I'm glad that the days of the boring serve fests are over (in the 90s); an unfortunate side-effect was that it also killed S & V in wimby.

Gorecki
06-08-2009, 03:58 PM
The balls were smaller and easier to crank according to McEnroe. He also said these were one of the fastest balls he's ever played with. I'm not sure about the weight but it didn't seem to take spin as well as in the past.

oh man.. is this one of those threads where NF will say that mass of the ball will change given it's speed?

one could tell from seing it on tv they were using Golf Balls:evil:...


why do you come up with this ideas?

dh003i
06-08-2009, 04:28 PM
Nadal could play on ice courts as well. It doesn't make it right that they made this change at this point to suit Federer and big servers. I'm not too sure about the balls changing so much each year. This year was way faster though.

It isn't even clear that you've proven that they changed it on purpose.

I do agree that the court seemed faster this year, for sure.

But the weather was quite extreme this year, so you can't just conclude that the changes were because of purposeful things the tournament directors did.

IF it was done on-purpose, that would, imo, be fair play since Wimbledon was slowed down for many years. But I think that Wimbledon is supposed to be faster this year; hopefully, the FO will be slower next year, if it was due to their control.

I think someone proposed having more tournaments on clay and grass. I wouldn't be opposed to that. I think it should be 1/3rd HC, 1/3rd grass, 1/3rd clay. Although I can see the injury argument for getting rid of HC altogether. In any event, clay can be made to play fast; and "real" clay, not crushed brick, is a lot different from Roland Garros; for starters, on a true clay-court, there is no sliding.

Imo, if HC was ever done away with, a good setup would be:

AO: grass like the current Wimbledon: medium bouncing and medium paced

FO: slow, high-bouncing clay with crushed brick on top

Wimbledon: traditional fast low-bouncing

USO: true clay without a layer of crushed brick, medium bounce, medium-fast paced; because there'd be no crushed brick, there'd be no sliding.

PS: Supporting my suspicion that the weather was the main factor, I think you can compare the days leading up to he final and the final. At the men's final, the clay seemed to be playing not as fast as it was all week.

nothingfails
06-08-2009, 04:42 PM
I just don't like when my beloved clay courts don't play traditional to how a clay court should play like. This isn't just about Nadal. It's about ruining clay courts with more ball bashing that should only be apart of hardcourt tennis. :(

Rome is traditionnally faster than RG. Madrid had bad bounces it looks like it.

tennisplaya
06-08-2009, 05:27 PM
The courts didn't matter, Nadal's knee is what stopped him. He was struggling badly with it since the Madrid semi.

Winners or Errors
06-08-2009, 05:48 PM
39 posts, not a single fact. This is the kind of conspiracy thread I should be used to. If anyone has any actual information about the courts being prepared differently or the balls being different on purpose, please post it. Otherwise, this is just a waste of time.

rod99
06-08-2009, 06:11 PM
39 posts, not a single fact. This is the kind of conspiracy thread I should be used to. If anyone has any actual information about the courts being prepared differently or the balls being different on purpose, please post it. Otherwise, this is just a waste of time.

see my comment about the FFT listening to the french players. that is a fact.

egn
06-08-2009, 06:14 PM
Windy. Not Humid. Very Dry. Slightly lighter balls. Any one of these alone would have not caused a problem but the problem was all four mixed together. It did not look like a hardcourt or Roddick and Murray would have been in the semis. It seemed more like Rome/Madrid clay conditions instead of Monte Carlo. Though the rain seemed to do something for the clay as the third set of the final saw it slow a bit in my opinion. It felt like Madrid but it was still slower than hardcourts not far slower than Miami or IW but still slower.

Nadal_Freak
06-08-2009, 07:20 PM
39 posts, not a single fact. This is the kind of conspiracy thread I should be used to. If anyone has any actual information about the courts being prepared differently or the balls being different on purpose, please post it. Otherwise, this is just a waste of time.
Mcenroe plays in the doubles at the FO. He got a first hand experience of the balls. He said they are smaller and easier to crank. Also that these balls are one of the fastest he's played with. I would say that is very likely the case even though we have no knowledge of the manufacturers.

theduh
06-08-2009, 10:12 PM
the french tennis federation generally asks the french players how they would like the court to play in order to help them. this is a fact. tsonga, simon, and monfils play better on faster surfaces and thus, the court this year reflected that.

see my comment about the FFT listening to the french players. that is a fact.

If you could produce an evidence (article, interview, etc) stating your claim then I would say it's a fact.

Tennis_Bum
06-08-2009, 10:17 PM
Don't know. But J-Mac said the new balls were the fastest he's ever seen at the FO. Who knows if he was talking out of his ass?

You can't believe everything you hear coming out of JMac's mouth. The guy is so biased when he commenting tennis. But JMac will never approach the partiality of Mary Carrillo (sp).

Cup8489
06-08-2009, 10:22 PM
I've been hearing of the "grass" slowing down theory since 2006, when Nadal made it to the finals. I'm glad that the days of the boring serve fests are over (in the 90s); an unfortunate side-effect was that it also killed S & V in wimby.

i heard it as far back as '02 when hewitt won..and with nadal being successful there it's gotten even more prominent.

fortunecookiesjc
06-09-2009, 04:57 AM
there were actually a remote control chip inside all of nadals playing balls and when needed to in a important play, a ball boy would sneakily remote it out.

delphi17
06-09-2009, 05:08 AM
there were actually a remote control chip inside all of nadals playing balls and when needed to in a important play, a ball boy would sneakily remote it out.

link pleases..

rod99
06-09-2009, 05:12 AM
If you could produce an evidence (article, interview, etc) stating your claim then I would say it's a fact.

i was listening to a european broadcast during the second week of the tournament and they stated that.

Gorecki
06-09-2009, 05:14 AM
there were actually a remote control chip inside all of nadals playing balls and when needed to in a important play, a ball boy would sneakily remote it out.

quoted for truth.. and also the elevated all the city of Paris so Nadal would be disturbed by the change in the weight of the ball due to altitude (not the mass Nadal Freak)... bunch of conspirators... #$%"""$D"!#$"

zagor
06-09-2009, 05:18 AM
there were actually a remote control chip inside all of nadals playing balls and when needed to in a important play, a ball boy would sneakily remote it out.

I doubt it.The way Soderling was hitting the ***** out of the ball he would have smashed the control chip to bits if it was in the ball.

David_Is_Right
06-09-2009, 05:28 AM
quoted for truth.. and also the elevated all the city of Paris so Nadal would be disturbed by the change in the weight of the ball due to altitude (not the mass Nadal Freak)... bunch of conspirators... #$%"""$D"!#$"

Huh? 10 char

obnoxious2
06-09-2009, 05:42 AM
It is stupid to think the balls are "smaller". LMAO. What kind of box do you live in to think that?

crazylevity
06-09-2009, 06:14 AM
The first time such theories surfaced were when Federer lost to Nadal in Wimbledon. There was lot of talk about how the grass was slowed down and how different surfaces should retain their individuality. Now the coin is flipped, that is all.

I'll have to correct you on that one. In 2001, the last true serve n volleyer won Wimbledon. In 2002, two baselining counterpunchers made the final. It was then that questions were raised about the surface, and that was when Wimbledon had actually changed the composition of the grass as well.

Winners or Errors
06-09-2009, 06:47 AM
Mcenroe plays in the doubles at the FO. He got a first hand experience of the balls. He said they are smaller and easier to crank. Also that these balls are one of the fastest he's played with. I would say that is very likely the case even though we have no knowledge of the manufacturers.

None of these things are facts. They are John McEnroe's opinions. Just because you happen to agree with him does not make it a fact.

Winners or Errors
06-09-2009, 06:51 AM
see my comment about the FFT listening to the french players. that is a fact.

Not a fact, but definitely verifiable. Of course, just because the conversation happened doesn't mean the courts were changed on purpose or the balls were ordered to a different specification, and no one on this board seems to have access to that information. Therefore, conversation or not, this is still just a conspiracy theory. :rolleyes:

PS - at Wimbledon, the groundskeepers did change the grass composition to make it more durable; that is a fact that can be verified by a number of sources and has...

sh@de
06-09-2009, 07:14 AM
link pleases..

are you serious?

fortunecookiesjc
06-09-2009, 07:49 AM
hahahahaha

crazylevity
06-09-2009, 07:51 AM
Balls. It's just a whole lot of spin.

origmarm
06-09-2009, 08:05 AM
Aren't the balls used at Rolland Garros the same Dunlop balls that they've used for the past 10 or so years? I believe they are used at a lot of South American clay tournaments also and possibly at Rome (?). The felt on them is pretty moisture sensitive from memory....

As to the surface, my understanding is that the construction of the court at Roland Garros is pretty different to most clay courts i.e. there is effectively a concrete "frame" where the lines run (the lines are then painted on this "frame") and the holes in this frame filled with compacted clay. There is then a layer of clay added to this as and when needed.

This makes the court fairly unique in that the compacted clay "fills" are less susceptible to "breakup" underfoot than a standard clay surface. It also means moisture is retained more in the court. What this means however is that in windy, dry conditions (such as we've experienced during this RG) where the surface layer effectively drys and is blown away, that the court will play faster as the compacted surface is more exposed. The surface will also "dry out" and effectively be harder. This is due to expansion/contraction of the clay within these "boxes" created by the frame. In more humid conditions however the surface layer will remain longer and also the underlying layer will be a lot "softer" and expanded with moisture affecting the bounce speed greatly. My understanding is that this has been the case pretty much since it was built and that the speed and type of bounce has consequently varied. Sometimes even during a match. You will also generally see more funny line bounces in dryer conditions as the "frame" is slightly more exposed giving a slight edge.

Do people believe this is no longer the case? Have they changed something that I'm not aware of?

As to the FFT, my understanding from French television (Grosjean recently) is that there is indeed some discussion with the french players. From what I understand though it is regarding when the court is watered i.e. they request the opinion of the french players as to the quality of the surface (given that they are playing on it) and whether they feel it should be watered more/less often. Their opinion however is simply taken into account as opposed to followed. Clearly this will affect the surface but it should only be for their matches. The amount of clay added to the court as I understand it is exactly the same every night, which of course means over time if the weather varies little it will change slowly.

Interested to hear comments on whether any of this has changed recently...

the green god
06-09-2009, 08:45 AM
A decade of doing everything they can to destroy serve and volley tennis, and after one tournament, people are complaining because their boy got beat. Boo Hoo.

amx13
06-09-2009, 09:21 AM
Besides Nadal was beat, I guess his fans have a valid point here. It was weird to see so many big hitter having success at RG, and the "classic" clay court players getting out of the tournamet at the early stages. It might have something to do with the court and ball played.

Sad for them that this conditions hurt his favorite player (Just like it was sad for us Federer fans to see the way grass was slowed down at Wibledon), but certainly it made both tournamets a lot more interesting.

theduh
06-09-2009, 09:29 AM
i was listening to a european broadcast during the second week of the tournament and they stated that.

Well I don't call that a fact. Broadcasters can say whatever they want but it doesn't mean it's true right? No official release from FFT then all of the claim if false.

rod99
06-09-2009, 09:59 AM
Well I don't call that a fact. Broadcasters can say whatever they want but it doesn't mean it's true right? No official release from FFT then all of the claim if false.

BS. the FFT is never going to officially release something. don't kid yourself. it's well known that tournaments modify the courts to suit their nation's players. why do you think the us open is so fast? the french open has done this for years.

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 10:01 AM
BS. the FFT is never going to officially release something. don't kid yourself. it's well known that tournaments modify the courts to suit their nation's players. why do you think the us open is so fast? the french open has done this for years.
Sadly all the slams all suit their nation's players by going faster. Why can't the French be good on clay? :(

Shangri La
06-09-2009, 10:24 AM
if someone lost because of different balls used, he obviously needs to L2P.

Mansewerz
06-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Well, Federer plays with a lot of spin, so there you have it.

rod99
06-09-2009, 10:48 AM
Sadly all the slams all suit their nation's players by going faster. Why can't the French be good on clay? :(

they've not been bad on clay. monfils was in the semis last year. leconte got to the finals. noah won it all.

jackson vile
06-09-2009, 10:52 AM
#1 they were no wetting the courts like they did in the past
#2 it was insanely windy and swept away a large amount of the top layer clay

I don't know about the balls, however from the results of players that did well you can clearly see that they evened the court out compared to other courts so that it was not as fast or as high bouncing.

For me this is the lowest I have ever seen the ball bounce, further more the big hitters dominated the court.

With all this considered Nadal lost, it is up to him to win.

Roger is a very lucky player, he did not have to face Nadal and the court certainly favored him, although the wind went against him even though it did not show in the final.

tennizz!@#
06-09-2009, 11:03 AM
Also to mention is they didn't have as much top layer clay this year. They really wanted to speed up the conditions with the courts and balls. It plays like a high bouncing hard court now.

you should try playing tennis sometime

NamRanger
06-09-2009, 11:45 AM
People act like this is new or something. The French Open has been getting faster since the 1990s. They've used less clay for awhile now, and I believe they changed the balls 10 years ago to a lighter ball that flies through the court easier. It's just that this year it was really hot and dry, which caused the balls to really fly.

Gorecki
06-09-2009, 11:51 AM
Huh? 10 char

it's called sarcasm... you may heard of it!

People act like this is new or something. The French Open has been getting faster since the 1990s. They've used less clay for awhile now, and I believe they changed the balls 10 years ago to a lighter ball that flies through the court easier. It's just that this year it was really hot and dry, which caused the balls to really fly.

actually lighter balls dont mean faster shots just like that Nam... and one must not disregard the traction effect induced by firmer surfaces such as one layer clay (as opposite to several layers)...

there is much more complex physics variables of the game than people like Nadal:freak think... hence my remarks on his simplistic aproach, wich show much love for the game and also much ignorance on the subject of Physics...

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 01:20 PM
they've not been bad on clay. monfils was in the semis last year. leconte got to the finals. noah won it all.
Alright. Simon and Tsonga prefer the courts to play faster and Monfils doesn't mind fast surfaces either. I think they decided this year to use faster balls and less clay on top to make the surface firmer and more like hardcourts. Dry conditions were never this fast before. Nadal actually likes dry conditions as he won against Federer in 06 and 07 with dry and hot conditions. The high bounces were helping him before and the speed wasn't that overwhelming compared to hardcourts. The slower conditions seem pretty quick as well compared to years past.

kanamit
06-09-2009, 01:26 PM
Alright. Simon and Tsonga prefer the courts to play faster and Monfils doesn't mind fast surfaces either. I think they decided this year to use faster balls and less clay on top to make the surface firmer and more like hardcourts. Dry conditions were never this fast before. Nadal actually likes dry conditions as he won against Federer in 06 and 07 with dry and hot conditions. The high bounces were helping him before and the speed wasn't that overwhelming compared to hardcourts. The slower conditions seem pretty quick as well compared to years past.

Yes, it's all a big conspiracy drawn up in some smoke-filled room. What else could explain Nadal's loss? Certainly not inferior play.

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 01:29 PM
Yes, it's all a big conspiracy drawn up in some smoke-filled room. What else could explain Nadal's loss? Certainly not inferior play.

McEnroe played with the balls and confirmed that they were faster and the amount of top layer is easily visible to an experienced eyes. Just see how thick the clay slides and bounces are.

NamRanger
06-09-2009, 01:31 PM
McEnroe played with the balls and confirmed that they were faster and the amount of top layer is easily visible to an experienced eyes. Just see how thick the clay slides and bounces are.


Not trying to make you look like an idiot or anything, but I'm pretty sure you've discredited McEnroe as a ******* before, and as someone who doesn't have any knowledge because he said grass was slower than it used to be.

kanamit
06-09-2009, 01:33 PM
McEnroe played with the balls and confirmed that they were faster and the amount of top layer is easily visible to an experienced eyes. Just see how thick the clay slides and bounces are.

Ok. So McEnroe making a fallible observation about the way the ball is playing is evidence of some grand conspiracy where a secret cabal of French tennis officials analysed videos of Monfils and Tsonga then decided that a faster court suits their style of play. The stuff of comic books, I tell ya.

Why don't you just admit what your problem is here? You will never be able to bring yourself to admit that Nadal is inferior to other players. Nadal lost because he was not the best player at RG 2009. Show us all that you're a grown up by admitting it and moving on. The longer you cling to these strange conspiracy theories, the harder it is to respect you.

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 01:34 PM
Not trying to make you look like an idiot or anything, but I'm pretty sure you've discredited McEnroe as a ******* before, and as someone who doesn't have any knowledge because he said grass was slower than it used to be.

Never called McEnroe as a *******. He actually likes the faster balls as it suits his game for doubles. He had no interest in making excuses for Nadal.

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 01:38 PM
Ok. So McEnroe making a fallible observation about the way the ball is playing is evidence of some grand conspiracy involving French tennis officials analyzing videos of Monfils and Tsonga, then deciding that a faster court suits their style of play. The stuff of comic books.

Why don't you just admit what your problem is here? You will never be able to bring yourself to admit that Nadal is inferior to other players. Nadal lost because he was not the best player at RG 2009. Show us all that you're a grown up by admitting it and moving on. The longer you cling to these strange conspiracy theories, the harder it is to respect you.

Nadal was hurt for RG. But the main thing is I don't like seeing courts and tennis balls being tampered with to suit certain players more than others. After seeing Nadal own Federer in 2008 RG, the French knew they had to do something different to make things more interesting. Therefore, they tampered with the ball and the clay used. Trying to get more of a hard court feel. Their strategy worked as hard court players were having a lot of success. Davydenko said it was faster, Del Potro says it is a lot faster and it really helped him out, and etc. It all makes sense to me and backed up by pros.

NamRanger
06-09-2009, 01:38 PM
Never called McEnroe as a *******. He actually likes the faster balls as it suits his game for doubles. He had no interest in making excuses for Nadal.


You said that "all former S&V pros are *******s" (or something to that extent). That would include McEnroe.



Grass has not been the same since 2001. The clay changed; get over it.

nothingfails
06-09-2009, 01:39 PM
Well, Federer plays with a lot of spin, so there you have it.

Except that a player like Nadal put even more spin AND more power at the same time into the ball, which makes the ball more difficult to control.

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 01:40 PM
You said that "all former S&V pros are *******s" (or something to that extent). That would include McEnroe.



Grass has not been the same since 2001. The clay changed; get over it.

Well at least you admit the clay changed. And grass change happened awhile ago. This clay change was to hurt Nadal. I guess you could say the change was to hurt Sampras as well though.

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 01:41 PM
Except that a player like Nadal put even more spin AND more power at the same time into the ball, which makes the ball more difficult to control.

Fed can hit flat and slices and doesn't like a lot of spin coming back at him. US Open surface doesn't take spin as well and that has been Fed's most successful slam.

kanamit
06-09-2009, 01:42 PM
Nadal was hurt for RG. But the main thing is I don't like seeing courts and tennis balls being tampered with to suit certain players more than others. After seeing Nadal own Federer in 2008 RG, the French knew they had to do something different to make things more interesting. Therefore, they tampered with the ball and the clay used. Trying to get more of a hard court feel. Their strategy worked as hard court players were having a lot of success. Davydenko said it was faster, Del Potro says it is a lot faster and it really helped him out, and etc. It all makes sense to me and backed up by pros.

I wouldn't like deliberate tampering to favor certain players over others either. Where is your evidence of deliberate tampering? Hmmm? Not even McEnroe has suggested what you're saying. All we have is pure conjecture from somebody looking for excuses for what is plainly obvious for everybody else to see. Nadal lost because he played inferior tennis. First it was a conspiracy among French officials wanting Monfils and Tsonga to win. Now it's supposedly a conspiracy to help Fed win.

As I said in response to a previous post of yours. Not even you can take what you're saying seriously. Why should any of us?

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 01:45 PM
I can't see Soderling doing well in RG if the clay was similar to last year. Soderling is a fast court player as well as Del Potro. Yet they overpowered their way to the semis. This isn't supposed to happen. But RG has changed.

nothingfails
06-09-2009, 01:47 PM
I Therefore, they tampered with the ball and the clay used. Trying to get more of a hard court feel. Their strategy worked as hard court players were having a lot of success. Davydenko said it was faster, Del Potro says it is a lot faster and it really helped him out, and etc. It all makes sense to me and backed up by pros.

...depending on what court you speak about : from all accounts by players, Lenglen is way slower than Ph Chatrier. Btw, Fed was never put on Lenglen this year.

thejoe
06-09-2009, 01:48 PM
I can't see Soderling doing well in RG if the clay was similar to last year. Soderling is a fast court player as well as Del Potro. Yet they overpowered their way to the semis. This isn't supposed to happen. But RG has changed.

"They" didn't change the clay. Enough of this. The weather made the courts play faster. That's what you get with natural surfaces. I thought Nadal loved natural surfaces, and preferred faster clay? Or at least he did until he was beaten by Federer and Soderling.

kanamit
06-09-2009, 01:49 PM
I can't see Soderling doing well in RG if the clay was similar to last year. Soderling is a fast court player as well as Del Potro. Yet they overpowered their way to the semis. This isn't supposed to happen. But RG has changed.

Or maybe the way the players performed changed? Did you ever stop to consider that? Some players adjust strategies and tactics in response to past experiences. No player's game is static. Not even Federer's, despite all the flack he keeps getting for his stubbornness. My guess is that you've never considered any of this because it would open up the possibility that Nadal's loss was his responsibility and not the fault of conspiratorial French officials.

kanamit
06-09-2009, 01:50 PM
...depending on what court you speak about : from all accounts by players, Lenglen is way slower than Ph Chatrier. Btw, Fed was never put on Lenglen this year.

I'm sure that was also a part of the Grand Conspiracy of French Officials. :shock:

theduh
06-09-2009, 01:56 PM
Nadal was hurt for RG. But the main thing is I don't like seeing courts and tennis balls being tampered with to suit certain players more than others. After seeing Nadal own Federer in 2008 RG, the French knew they had to do something different to make things more interesting. Therefore, they tampered with the ball and the clay used. Trying to get more of a hard court feel. Their strategy worked as hard court players were having a lot of success. Davydenko said it was faster, Del Potro says it is a lot faster and it really helped him out, and etc. It all makes sense to me and backed up by pros.

Unless proven with hard facts\evidence (FFT admitting they changed blah blah blah) I say all of this is garbage, sorry.

tennizz!@#
06-09-2009, 01:57 PM
McEnroe played with the balls and confirmed that they were faster and the amount of top layer is easily visible to an experienced eyes. Just see how thick the clay slides and bounces are.

how would you know?

you don't play tennis

theduh
06-09-2009, 02:02 PM
I'm holding back but it's really hard not to post this

http://www.nouvelordremondial.cc/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/its-a-conspiracy.jpg

ghostbear
06-09-2009, 02:03 PM
I don't know if it was due to some external artificial intervention, but the conditions certainly looked different than previous years. What, Karlovic set a record for the most number of aces in a match, and this was not a record on just clay, right? I wonder what was the previous record at the FO? And I remember Del Potro mentioning that it played much like HC this year.

The tennis guy
06-09-2009, 02:11 PM
And I remember Del Potro mentioning that it played much like HC this year.

Whenever sunny and warm for two weeks, red clay plays harder and faster.

coloskier
06-09-2009, 02:38 PM
I can't see Soderling doing well in RG if the clay was similar to last year. Soderling is a fast court player as well as Del Potro. Yet they overpowered their way to the semis. This isn't supposed to happen. But RG has changed.

I thought the reason you claimed that Fed beat Nadal in Hamburg was that the clay was too wet and too slow? Which is it?? Nadal doesn't like clay that is too fast or too slow? Or is it both? Also, I think that the Italian Open clay is still faster than RG, and Nadal had no problem there. It was due to his knees, I'll be willing to admit that. Soderling got hot for a tournament, which every player has run into one time or another. Nadal will be back next year, hopefully after playing a smarter schedule. At least the next 3 years the "Olympics" excuse can't be used for later on in the year.

chess9
06-09-2009, 02:48 PM
Aren't almost all tennis balls made at three or four plants in South Africa? I'm sure all the balls are very close in spec except for the nap. The RG balls are very nappy, so they hold a bit more moisture and might be slightly slower, if anything.

I think the RG balls are the best of the lot. They last longer. You can get 6 sets out of them. :) The English probably play with one can all summer-on hard courts! ;)

-Robert

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 02:49 PM
I thought the reason you claimed that Fed beat Nadal in Hamburg was that the clay was too wet and too slow? Which is it?? Nadal doesn't like clay that is too fast or too slow? Or is it both? Also, I think that the Italian Open clay is still faster than RG, and Nadal had no problem there. It was due to his knees, I'll be willing to admit that. Soderling got hot for a tournament, which every player has run into one time or another. Nadal will be back next year, hopefully after playing a smarter schedule. At least the next 3 years the "Olympics" excuse can't be used for later on in the year.
Rome is slower than RG now. Here are videos of Nadal and Soderling at Rome. You telling me that is faster? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMr04du5__0

Breaker
06-09-2009, 02:50 PM
Ok I'll ask...

(besides Nadal) who else's loss was because of these new mysterious changes :confused:

theduh
06-09-2009, 02:52 PM
Ok I'll ask...

(besides Nadal) who else's loss was because of these new mysterious changes :confused:

Djoker?

10 char.

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 02:54 PM
Ok I'll ask...

(besides Nadal) who else's loss was because of these new mysterious changes :confused:

Ferrero, Djokovic, Davydenko, and Wawrinka come to mind.

Breaker
06-09-2009, 03:06 PM
Ferrero, Djokovic, Davydenko, and Wawrinka come to mind.

Ferrero was not a threat anyway really and lost in 5 to the same hot Kohlschreiber who beat Djokovic in straights, who then lost to pretty much the ultimate dirtballer in Robredo. MAYBE if Kohlschreiber had demolished Robredo as well I'd see you having a point there, but if Robredo (who plays with more spin than all of these guys) can beat Kohlschreiber I doubt it's these suppose court/ball changes that were responsible for their losses.

Davydenko losing to Soderling...Davydenko is one of the flattest hitters on tour right along with Soderling and played what 5 matches the entire year heading into Roland Garros, not to mention he destroyed Verdasco and Wawrinka the two previous rounds before Soderling beat him.

Wawrinka has never made it past the round of 16 at any slam - and ended up losing to Davydenko anyway, so that doesn't make much sense either.

Lefty78
06-09-2009, 03:14 PM
I can't see Soderling doing well in RG if the clay was similar to last year. Soderling is a fast court player as well as Del Potro. Yet they overpowered their way to the semis. This isn't supposed to happen. But RG has changed.

You could see the clay getting blown all over the spectators at various points throughout the tournament. These conspiracy theories are idiotic. Del Potro has a track record of winning on clay, and both he and Soderling have one thing in common: they're tall. Nadal's bounce didn't hurt Soderling the way so many others have been affected.

AndrewD
06-09-2009, 03:25 PM
J-Mac..... Who knows if he was talking out of his ass?

It is Johnny Mac so shouldn't we just assume he is?

Nadal_Freak
06-09-2009, 03:29 PM
Ferrero was not a threat anyway really and lost in 5 to the same hot Kohlschreiber who beat Djokovic in straights, who then lost to pretty much the ultimate dirtballer in Robredo. MAYBE if Kohlschreiber had demolished Robredo as well I'd see you having a point there, but if Robredo (who plays with more spin than all of these guys) can beat Kohlschreiber I doubt it's these suppose court/ball changes that were responsible for their losses.

Davydenko losing to Soderling...Davydenko is one of the flattest hitters on tour right along with Soderling and played what 5 matches the entire year heading into Roland Garros, not to mention he destroyed Verdasco and Wawrinka the two previous rounds before Soderling beat him.

Wawrinka has never made it past the round of 16 at any slam - and ended up losing to Davydenko anyway, so that doesn't make much sense either.

I meant Ferrer. My bad. He shouldn't have lost to Soderling if the court was slow enough.

NamRanger
06-09-2009, 04:35 PM
I meant Ferrer. My bad. He shouldn't have lost to Soderling if the court was slow enough.


Ferrer's a better hardcourt player actually IMO. His forehand is a bigger weapon there.

zagor
06-09-2009, 04:40 PM
Ferrer's a better hardcourt player actually IMO. His forehand is a bigger weapon there.

Ferrer is definitely a better HC player than claycourter,the best results and biggest wins in his career came in 2007 USO and TMC.

dh003i
06-09-2009, 05:42 PM
You could see the clay getting blown all over the spectators at various points throughout the tournament. These conspiracy theories are idiotic. Del Potro has a track record of winning on clay, and both he and Soderling have one thing in common: they're tall. Nadal's bounce didn't hurt Soderling the way so many others have been affected.

Yea, it's funny that while those guys, Del Potro and Soderling, would have a better shot to beat Nadal because of being tall and not affected by his topspin, for the same reason, they're disadvantaged vs. Federer's low-bouncing slice and drop-shots.

Matchups do matter.