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View Full Version : Moderating body usage in tennis as a skill


Alafter
06-09-2009, 02:38 AM
I think it's a skill alongside with mental toughness, shots selection, fitness, etc. In a way, I kinda felt that this is overlooked in various places where I saw the argument "If X wasn't (ailment), Y wouldn't have won".

However if (ailment) is related to overexertion in tennis, then, it's really a poor argument.

Tennis player should know well enough not to overexert in one period and thereby disrupting performance in subsequent periods.

I do believe that if Nadal knees didn't go bad, Fed most likely would not have won those clay tournaments. But it's hard to discredit Fed's win by saying Nadal knees gave out. Wearing out your body and losing a match is not much different from making poor shot selections and losing a match. It's poor decision makings that resulted in such consequences.

I also see Fed's mental babyness as his fault as well and he should do something about it. Fortunately, I find his recent tantrums and somewhat less than humble interviews rather amusing. Plus, it's always fun to see what kind of Fed steps on the court each match!

You know, I just saw another post that angrily stated what I typed here. So I am a repeat. But since I spent 5 mins thinking and writing this I will post it anyways :oops:

Max G.
06-09-2009, 01:43 PM
It depends. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Some people are just naturally more injury-prone than others.

It's hard to blame people when they ATP itself requires that many tournaments to be played - for all the 'excess' tournaments we see Nadal playing, he's only one tournament above the minimum the ATP counts!

And sometimes there's just bad luck, like when a ball rolled under Haas's foot just as he was serving.

FlamEnemY
06-09-2009, 01:46 PM
It depends. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Some people are just naturally more injury-prone than others.

And sometimes there's just bad luck, like when a ball rolled under Haas's foot just as he was serving.

What? When did that happen?

Alafter
06-09-2009, 07:07 PM
It depends. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Some people are just naturally more injury-prone than others.

It's hard to blame people when they ATP itself requires that many tournaments to be played - for all the 'excess' tournaments we see Nadal playing, he's only one tournament above the minimum the ATP counts!

And sometimes there's just bad luck, like when a ball rolled under Haas's foot just as he was serving.

Being injury proned is just another factor just like like being naturally untalented at the game. It's just another problem preventing you from achieving greatness.

I think for Nadal, it's not the number of tournaments played, it's how much he chooses to exert.

Yeah, but bad luck don't count. But then again we probably can agree on this point even without stating it.

DoubleDeuce
06-09-2009, 07:13 PM
Talent,

Lets you do more,

with less.

drgnpride
06-09-2009, 07:17 PM
I think it's a skill alongside with mental toughness, shots selection, fitness, etc. In a way, I kinda felt that this is overlooked in various places where I saw the argument "If X wasn't (ailment), Y wouldn't have won".

However if (ailment) is related to overexertion in tennis, then, it's really a poor argument.

Tennis player should know well enough not to overexert in one period and thereby disrupting performance in subsequent periods.

I do believe that if Nadal knees didn't go bad, Fed most likely would not have won those clay tournaments. But it's hard to discredit Fed's win by saying Nadal knees gave out. Wearing out your body and losing a match is not much different from making poor shot selections and losing a match. It's poor decision makings that resulted in such consequences.

I also see Fed's mental babyness as his fault as well and he should do something about it. Fortunately, I find his recent tantrums and somewhat less than humble interviews rather amusing. Plus, it's always fun to see what kind of Fed steps on the court each match!

You know, I just saw another post that angrily stated what I typed here. So I am a repeat. But since I spent 5 mins thinking and writing this I will post it anyways :oops:

it's not really Nadal's "decision" not to play with the same physical efficiency as Fed, who's to say he could if he wanted to? Your mind, your body, your style, everything is what makes you you and no two people are the same. Nadal's style is to pound down his opponents and pound his body in the process. Fed's style is quickness and anticipation w/ unbelievable hand eye coordination. Sampras was probably a combination of the two. Asking Nadal to play more like Fed would be like asking Fed to play more like Nadal, neither could or would want to do it. It's just that Fed's style lends itself to more longevity than Rafa's does. There's probably a lot of pros who would like to play with the physical efficiency of Federer, but they are not him. I also disagree with people who say Federer is better conditioned than other pros, It's not really conditioning that allows him to outlast younger players in 5 setters, it's just that his style expends less energy, he practically floats on the court while others are pounding their joints.

Bud
06-09-2009, 07:41 PM
I think it's a skill alongside with mental toughness, shots selection, fitness, etc. In a way, I kinda felt that this is overlooked in various places where I saw the argument "If X wasn't (ailment), Y wouldn't have won".

However if (ailment) is related to overexertion in tennis, then, it's really a poor argument.

Tennis player should know well enough not to overexert in one period and thereby disrupting performance in subsequent periods.

I do believe that if Nadal knees didn't go bad, Fed most likely would not have won those clay tournaments. But it's hard to discredit Fed's win by saying Nadal knees gave out. Wearing out your body and losing a match is not much different from making poor shot selections and losing a match. It's poor decision makings that resulted in such consequences.

I also see Fed's mental babyness as his fault as well and he should do something about it. Fortunately, I find his recent tantrums and somewhat less than humble interviews rather amusing. Plus, it's always fun to see what kind of Fed steps on the court each match!

You know, I just saw another post that angrily stated what I typed here. So I am a repeat. But since I spent 5 mins thinking and writing this I will post it anyways :oops:

I agree with the basics of what you're saying. It's all about managing the many different aspects of one's game.

I apply these principles to my game as I get older. For example, instead of chasing wide-angled forehands down and hitting a topspin forehand back into the court (and then hauling butt back into position), I've been working on a defensive squash shot that places the ball deep into the court and to my opponent's BH. Both returns accomplish the same thing but the squash shot is much easier on the body and allows me more time to get back into a favorable court location.

For Nadal, working on things like a bigger serve... and hitting a flatter ball would allow him to end points more quickly. IMO, these are the main things he should concentrate on. He should also decrease the number of tournaments by 4-5 per year.

Max G.
06-09-2009, 07:41 PM
What? When did that happen?

A while back, at Wimbledon. 2005, I think? He was just coming back off some other injury, too. Really messed up his ankle, tore ligaments or something... he was hitting warmup serves and a ball rolled under his foot and he came down onto it as he was serving.

Alafter
06-09-2009, 10:23 PM
it's not really Nadal's "decision" not to play with the same physical efficiency as Fed, who's to say he could if he wanted to? Your mind, your body, your style, everything is what makes you you and no two people are the same. Nadal's style is to pound down his opponents and pound his body in the process. Fed's style is quickness and anticipation w/ unbelievable hand eye coordination. Sampras was probably a combination of the two. Asking Nadal to play more like Fed would be like asking Fed to play more like Nadal, neither could or would want to do it. It's just that Fed's style lends itself to more longevity than Rafa's does. There's probably a lot of pros who would like to play with the physical efficiency of Federer, but they are not him. I also disagree with people who say Federer is better conditioned than other pros, It's not really conditioning that allows him to outlast younger players in 5 setters, it's just that his style expends less energy, he practically floats on the court while others are pounding their joints.

Nadal has the choice of not chasing after some balls, especially when it may be a little too much. This is a plausible alternative right?

sureshs
06-10-2009, 07:23 AM
I think it's a skill alongside with mental toughness, shots selection, fitness, etc. In a way, I kinda felt that this is overlooked in various places where I saw the argument "If X wasn't (ailment), Y wouldn't have won".

However if (ailment) is related to overexertion in tennis, then, it's really a poor argument.

Tennis player should know well enough not to overexert in one period and thereby disrupting performance in subsequent periods.

I do believe that if Nadal knees didn't go bad, Fed most likely would not have won those clay tournaments. But it's hard to discredit Fed's win by saying Nadal knees gave out. Wearing out your body and losing a match is not much different from making poor shot selections and losing a match. It's poor decision makings that resulted in such consequences.

I also see Fed's mental babyness as his fault as well and he should do something about it. Fortunately, I find his recent tantrums and somewhat less than humble interviews rather amusing. Plus, it's always fun to see what kind of Fed steps on the court each match!

You know, I just saw another post that angrily stated what I typed here. So I am a repeat. But since I spent 5 mins thinking and writing this I will post it anyways :oops:

The ailment could be indirectly linked to genetics, too, and that would not be known to spectators.

But Nadal's bad knees turned out to be most opportune for Federer, otherwise he might have hung up his racquet is frustration.

rafan
06-10-2009, 08:12 AM
The ailment could be indirectly linked to genetics, too, and that would not be known to spectators.

But Nadal's bad knees turned out to be most opportune for Federer, otherwise he might have hung up his racquet is frustration.

Or possibly diet Suresh. I wonder how many packet of biscuits Rafa gets through (he is supposed to like them before playing)

snowpuppy
06-10-2009, 11:40 AM
It depends. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Some people are just naturally more injury-prone than others.

It's hard to blame people when they ATP itself requires that many tournaments to be played - for all the 'excess' tournaments we see Nadal playing, he's only one tournament above the minimum the ATP counts!

And sometimes there's just bad luck, like when a ball rolled under Haas's foot just as he was serving.

I was actually there when it happened. Seriously case of bad luck. Happen during warm up in a match against Tipsarevic. It was quite impressive how he played through it for a set and a half until he finally retired. He has a lot of guts.

Devilito
06-10-2009, 02:53 PM
at a pro level you can't go %80 and just spin some balls in or decide to just change your game around to conserve certain parts of your body. If you have a game and an injury is preventing you from playing it, then it's over. Nadal is a counterpuncher. If he can't run he loses. He's not all of a sudden going to develop a big serving serve/volley game to take pressure off his knees.

Serve_Ace
06-10-2009, 03:06 PM
at a pro level you can't go %80 and just spin some balls in or decide to just change your game around to conserve certain parts of your body. If you have a game and an injury is preventing you from playing it, then it's over. Nadal is a counterpuncher. If he can't run he loses. He's not all of a sudden going to develop a big serving serve/volley game to take pressure off his knees.

Lol Roger can go around 85% and still win his matches, even Grand Slams, the last time I saw where he probs decided to go all out was AO 07 now that was insane tennis