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View Full Version : Graf vs Jankovic- who would have the overall head to head edge in their primes?


julesb
06-09-2009, 02:30 PM
Who do you think would come out ahead between Steffi Graf and Jelena Jankovic in their primes? Meaning if they played alot of matches who would win more often. I am going to say Jankovic. Graf won all her slams because of no competition while Jankovic has to play so many hard hitters and the great Williams sisters, Henin, Sharapova leading the way. Jankovic could match Graf's power, outrun her, and has more variety and court smarts.

dincuss
06-09-2009, 02:33 PM
Graf, she was a better player.
But Jankovic has a lot more speed and better movement than graf.

CEvertFan
06-09-2009, 02:35 PM
Is this a trick question?


Graf was faster than just about any other woman player ever and faster than a lot of the men too.

CEvertFan
06-09-2009, 02:36 PM
Graf, she was a better player.
But Jankovic has a lot more speed and better movement than graf.

You probably never even saw Graf play tennis because you have no idea what you're talking about.

thalivest
06-09-2009, 02:40 PM
Jankovic would probably do about as well vs Graf as Helen Kelesi, Amy Frazier or Judith Weisner did. Since if Jankovic played in the 90s her career and position in the womens game would be something more like what Helen Kelesi, Amy Frazier, or Judith Weisner's were instead of the lofty (sad state of womens tennis) heights she somehow attained in 2007 and 2008. I would add Tauziat except for her late career surge, but her head to head performance vs Graf would look something like Tauziat too if she were lucky (unlucky) to play Graf that many times.

Anyway who cant win a slam and only reaches 1 slam final in the current womens field is pretty much hopeless in the grand scheme of things.

Arafel
06-09-2009, 02:49 PM
Why are recreating this poll in the former players forum? You already posted it in the General Players forum, and the response was overwhelming for Graf. I still can't believe 6 people actually voted for Jankovic.

Arafel
06-09-2009, 02:51 PM
In fact, since it's become clear you're simply trolling, maybe you should be banned.

Chelsea_Kiwi
06-09-2009, 08:53 PM
Can't wait till grafselesfan gets in here. This is got to be the worst poll that is meant to be serious that I have seen in awhile.

CEvertFan
06-09-2009, 09:04 PM
Can't wait till grafselesfan gets in here. This is got to be the worst poll that is meant to be serious that I have seen in awhile.

LOL I heard that. Maybe the OP is just doing it to be obtuse. Or the OP is ********...:lol: because Graf at 39 years of age could beat Jankovic now.

bebots
06-10-2009, 08:49 AM
I really like Jankovic...BUT how is Jankovic that much different from say one of Graf's arch-rivals Arantxa Sanchez Vicario? Both are defensive counterpunchers and I would say Arantxa had some more cajones to crack a point open and be aggressive than Jelena does these days. Jelena has to do something more than merely be quick and defensive against a prime Graf.

Who would win between Jankovic and Sanchez Vicario? Overall Graf dominated but Arantxa had some really big wins...so I definitely think Graf would dominate Jankovic.

boredone3456
06-10-2009, 10:55 AM
and we need 2 polls on this why? I think the first one made things pretty clear

tonyg11
06-10-2009, 11:19 AM
ROFL Graf would probably beat Jankovic NOW at 39

dannykl
06-10-2009, 12:08 PM
Graf, she was a better player.
But Jankovic has a lot more speed and better movement than graf.

Are you kidding me? Jankovic moves faster and better than Steffi?
You must be joking.

grafrules
06-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Are you kidding me? Jankovic moves faster and better than Steffi?
You must be joking.

Movement is the best part of Jelena's game probably. Then again that isnt saying a whole lot.

dannykl
06-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Who do you think would come out ahead between Steffi Graf and Jelena Jankovic in their primes? Meaning if they played alot of matches who would win more often. I am going to say Jankovic. Graf won all her slams because of no competition while Jankovic has to play so many hard hitters and the great Williams sisters, Henin, Sharapova leading the way. Jankovic could match Graf's power, outrun her, and has more variety and court smarts.

Steffi can win at least 9 out of 10 matches they meet, if not all.
Steffi is just too far above Jelena.

dincuss
06-10-2009, 03:18 PM
You probably never even saw Graf play tennis because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Why wouldnt I?
Because I believe one player does something better than another suddenly makes my opinion inferior.

People like you get me so mad:evil:

Orion
06-10-2009, 04:58 PM
Jankovic?? Hunh c'mon. Not even close. Steffi would wipe the court with her on ANY surface. She can't even dominate the "lackluster" field in the WTA. Steffi DOMINATED her era. No if and and buts abut it. The argument could be made that there is so much parity in the WTA that its hard to get a leg up but I'm not buying it Steffi was in a league of her own, until Seles made her run (note: at the end of Steffi's career) The more appropriate poll would be Steffi vs. Seles in their prime.

CEvertFan
06-10-2009, 08:13 PM
Jankovic?? Hunh c'mon. Not even close. Steffi would wipe the court with her on ANY surface. She can't even dominate the "lackluster" field in the WTA. Steffi DOMINATED her era. No if and and buts abut it. The argument could be made that there is so much parity in the WTA that its hard to get a leg up but I'm not buying it Steffi was in a league of her own, until Seles made her run (note: at the end of Steffi's career) The more appropriate poll would be Steffi vs. Seles in their prime.

In 1991-1993 Graf was in her early 20s. Certainly not at the end of her career since she played until she was 30.

CEvertFan
06-10-2009, 08:14 PM
Movement is the best part of Jelena's game probably. Then again that isnt saying a whole lot.

Jelena is quick and it's probably her best attribute, but does she move better than Graf? No, she doesn't.

Devilito
06-10-2009, 08:15 PM
ROFL Graf would probably beat Jankovic NOW at 39

no question about it. Lol @ this thread

Orion
06-10-2009, 08:27 PM
In 1991-1993 Graf was in her early 20s. Certainly not at the end of her career since she played until she was 30.

You're right. I stand corrected. I remember thinking Steffi was older than she actually was and it seemed like Seles came on the scene during Steffi's slump (which was caused by the stuff with her father). Steffi has a 10-5 head to head advantage. I still call 66% a league of her own, not to diminish Monica's game any.

CEvertFan
06-10-2009, 08:27 PM
Why wouldnt I?
Because I believe one player does something better than another suddenly makes my opinion inferior.

People like you get me so mad:evil:

When you make statements like "Jankovic is quicker and moves better than Graf" expect your posts to be regarded as trolling.

I've been watching tennis for MANY years now and saw Graf in her prime and Jankovic too, and Graf moves better. No question. Better footspeed AND better footwork. Graf > Jankovic.

Orion
06-10-2009, 08:33 PM
When you make statements like "Jankovic is quicker and moves better than Graf" expect your posts to be regarded as trolling.

I've been watching tennis for MANY years now and saw Graf in her prime and Jankovic too, and Graf moves better. No question. Better footspeed AND better footwork. Graf > Jankovic.

+1. Jankovic looks quick but doesn't move better than Steffi. OP probably just watched the Wimbledon roof ceremony and formed a quick opinion. Watch her matches from the 90's if you wanna see a dominant woman tennis player.

grafselesfan
06-11-2009, 02:06 AM
Graf could beat Jankovic from a wheelchair. It is comparing the greatest women player ever to the 1000th greatest women player ever who would have a career high ranking of #17 in almost any other era. Note I said career high of #17, which means the highest point over her 10+ year career or so. That wouldnt be her usual ranking.

Jankovic is so hopeless she cant even win a slam and has only reached 1 slam final in by far the worst womens tennis field in history. What does that say about her abilities. There is nothing there in the current field and she still cant win anything big. Last years French was wide open to her and playing some of the best tennis of her life she couldnt win the defacto final vs someone like Ana Ivanovic even with all these leads the whole match including in the 3rd set. Her best isnt good enough to win vs horrible opposition, even pushing to the max of her abilities. Her serve, forehand, and volleys all suck. They are the strokes of a pro hacker. Her best assets are her backhand and mobility and they are merely very good, not exceptional, just very good.

Has anyone seen Jelena's forehand btw. Just imagine Jankovic trying to trade forehands with Steffi Graf. Ouch, scary.

jamesblakefan#1
06-11-2009, 02:13 AM
The score in the other thread is 79-8 Graf, with half of those 8 being joke/pity votes.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=266845

This thread and the OP's question is an EPIC FAIL. That's like asking who would win, Gilles Simon or Bjorn Borg. :)

grafselesfan
06-11-2009, 02:17 AM
The score in the other thread is 79-8 Graf, with half of those 8 being joke/pity votes.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=266845

This thread and the OP's question is an EPIC FAIL. That's like asking who would win, Gilles Simon or Bjorn Borg. :)

Who knows if they are all pity votes. Some people these days are just crazy. I feel sorry for JJ in some ways since my feeling on her if she sort of already had her 15 minutes if you know what I mean.

jamesblakefan#1
06-11-2009, 02:22 AM
I like how he said "prime Jankovic", as if she had some prolific prime to speak of. If your prime is 18 weeks at #1 and 0 slams, you're in trouble. Let's not forget this is a woman who lost 10 straight matches at one point in 2006. I guess that was "Pre Prime Jankovic", though.

At least put Ivanovic to make it half decent, since she's won a slam and has a weapon that could hurt Graf 1% of the time, her FH. But Jankovic? Jelena Jankovic? I would laugh, but the OP was serious enough to ask the question twice, which shows how determined he was to be right, but no...

grafselesfan
06-11-2009, 02:31 AM
Jankovic will probably go down as having a short prime. Something from say Wimbledon 2006-end of 2008. That is yet another additional negative about her as a short prime is never something that good. The ironic thing is the great Serena Wililams even will probably go down as having an even shorter prime than JJ. 2002 March-2003 August will probably end up being her prime. Atleast she was an absolute beast during her prime though, playing some of the best tennis ever by a women and unbeatable to anyone of a much stronger womens field except for Henin on clay. That plus atleast many years past her prime she is still a threat to win slams. JJ in her short prime reached 1 slam final, and 2008 might go down as the worst year in womens tennis history (if 2009 does not rival it) and she couldnt win a slam being ranked #1 at the end of the year.

hoodjem
06-11-2009, 06:23 AM
Jankovic seems like a very nice person. What has she won?

Warriorroger
06-11-2009, 07:46 AM
Jankovic seems like a very nice person. What has she won?

a lot of money..

Jakedasnake
08-13-2009, 06:53 PM
The OP is a ****** with no brain. And no sense of what a good player is. What a fail thread!

goyeji
08-13-2009, 09:32 PM
The OP is a ****** with no brain. And no sense of what a good player is. What a fail thread!

Wow - thanks for bumping the thread, but insults are really uncalled for here. julesb is one of the more respected and knowledgeable posters on the forums. Insulting a poster - any poster - is despicable, but doing so to one of the most intelligent and civil contributors of the boards is downright deplorable.

For the subject, it's close but I give the edge to Jankovic. It's hard to compare No. 1 players of different eras, but clearly Jankovic faces much tougher competition than Graf ever did. Considering Jankovic has superior speed and far stronger backhand, she would likely come out on top if rivaling Graf in her prime.

flying24
08-13-2009, 09:39 PM
Lets compare their games:

Forehand- Graf 100 times better
Backhand- Graf a bit better
Volleys- Graf 80 times better
Serve- Graf 100 times better
Movement- Graf far better
Mental- Graf 100 times better
Return- Graf far better

I think Graf just edges it.

Steve132
08-13-2009, 09:58 PM
Lets compare their games:

Forehand- Graf 100 times better
Backhand- Graf a bit better
Volleys- Graf 80 times better
Serve- Graf 100 times better
Movement- Graf far better
Mental- Graf 100 times better
Return- Graf far better

I think Graf just edges it.

You're underestimating Graf. :)

I'm amazed that this thread is rated TWO stars.

Henry Kaspar
08-14-2009, 05:42 AM
Would it be possible to arrange for an extra corner for "ridiculous posts and threads"?

Henry Kaspar
08-14-2009, 05:45 AM
Monica Seles and Anna-Lena Groenefeld in their primes -- who would have won?

Hey, I think it's a close one.

rod99
08-14-2009, 06:36 AM
Wow - thanks for bumping the thread, but insults are really uncalled for here. julesb is one of the more respected and knowledgeable posters on the forums. Insulting a poster - any poster - is despicable, but doing so to one of the most intelligent and civil contributors of the boards is downright deplorable.

For the subject, it's close but I give the edge to Jankovic. It's hard to compare No. 1 players of different eras, but clearly Jankovic faces much tougher competition than Graf ever did. Considering Jankovic has superior speed and far stronger backhand, she would likely come out on top if rivaling Graf in her prime.

"most intelligent and civil contributors of the boards..." are you kidding me? julesb is blinded by bias and is incapable of providing any kind of objective discussion. every post (regardless of the subject) turns into some kind of garbage about how graf is overrated and how seles "dominated" her before the stabbing. it is ridiculous and very tired to listen to. that is not the sign of an intelligent poster. that is a sign of an idiot.

and if you are even considering jankovic to be in the same league as graf then you are an idiot as well. everyone has opinions but when opinions are that far off then the poster deserves to be called out. jankovic doesn't have superior foot speed than graf. that's ludicrous. graf arguably is the quickest women's player in history. the only advantage jankovic has is her backhand, but graf's backhand was quite effective, especially on fast surfaces.

Lionheart392
08-14-2009, 06:57 AM
"most intelligent and civil contributors of the boards..." are you kidding me? julesb is blinded by bias and is incapable of providing any kind of objective discussion. every post (regardless of the subject) turns into some kind of garbage about how graf is overrated and how seles "dominated" her before the stabbing. it is ridiculous and very tired to listen to. that is not the sign of an intelligent poster. that is a sign of an idiot.

and if you are even considering jankovic to be in the same league as graf then you are an idiot as well. everyone has opinions but when opinions are that far off then the poster deserves to be called out. jankovic doesn't have superior foot speed than graf. that's ludicrous. graf arguably is the quickest women's player in history. the only advantage jankovic has is her backhand, but graf's backhand was quite effective, especially on fast surfaces.

gj011 always hated Graf and loved Seles so if he and goyeji are indeed the same person you shouldn't be surprised by his post.
And Julesb also claimed that Graf and Gunter Parche (who stabbed Seles) were lovers so this thread is tame in comparison to many of her theories.

lawrence
08-14-2009, 06:58 AM
injured safina vs seles
id say safina, because seles played in an era with no competition. graf was terrible after all, according to julesb

jevonclyde
08-14-2009, 08:47 AM
No question: Graf. JJ would blame anything and everything during and after their matches.

jamesblakefan#1
08-14-2009, 09:02 AM
Just look @ who 3 of the 7 Jankovic votes are for - julesb, goyeji, and shouldretire. Is this a coincidence? Of course not...:roll:

Lionheart392
08-14-2009, 09:19 AM
Just look @ who 3 of the 7 Jankovic votes are for - julesb, goyeji, and shouldretire. Is this a coincidence? Of course not...:roll:

You've convinced me that gj011, shouldretire and goyeji are the same person, but my gut tells me that Julesb is different...

llama
08-14-2009, 10:10 AM
You've convinced me that gj011, shouldretire and goyeji are the same person, but my gut tells me that Julesb is different...

Obviously they are all the children of a marriage between first cousins...