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View Full Version : Hypothetical GOAT year


nfor304
06-11-2009, 10:02 PM
So if I had a time machine.....
And I decided to go back in time and take the greatest players of the past 100 years right in the middle of each of their primes and made them play a whole calender year, how would they all go in each of the grand slams?

They would also have to use a "neutral" racket, like an aluminium frame, and would have 6 months to practice before the season began.

They would also be playing on the current surfaces at the current speeds etc and would play only each other in these tournaments, none of the current top 10 included except Nadal and Federer.

Who would win each slam?

I'll go first and say:

Australian: Agassi or Federer
French Open: Nadal or Borg
Wimbledon: Sampras
USOpen: Federer, Sampras, Lendl or maybe Gonzalez or Laver.

paterson
06-12-2009, 11:09 AM
It's impossible to determine if wood era player could make the conversion to a non-wood racquet and have the same success and same goes for the modern racqeut player to wood.

The wood racquets were heavier and the sweet spots smaller. A player really had to hit thru the ball and had to work the point and move the ball around.

The stroke technique was 100% different.During the wood era, the majority of players hit with a closed stance. Turn sideways to the net, step forward to the ball and hit.

The modern game is all about power. The "big" forehand replaced the volley.

So I'd break it down by racquet.

Wood era

Australian(Grass): Laver or McEnroe

Roland Garros: 1. Borg 2.Rosewall

Wimbledon; 1. McEnroe 2. Laver 3. gonzalez 4. Borg 5. Newcombe

US Open Hard: 1. McEnroe 2. Laver 3. gonzalez 4. Connors

US Open Grass 1. McEnroe 2. Laver 3. Gonzalez 4. Newcombe 5. Borg 6. Connors

Bottom line: McEnroe and Laver were the best during the wood era.

Modern Racquets

Australian Rebound Ace: 1. Federer 2, Lendl 3. Agassi 4 Sampras

French Open: 1.Nadal 2. Federer 3. Lendl 4. Kuerten

Wimbledon: 1. Sampras 2. Federer

USOpen: 1. Federer 2. Sampras 3. Lendl 4. Agassi

GuillermoR
06-12-2009, 11:57 AM
There should be a 'vote ban' feature on these forums. Someone who considers Gonzalez as a contestant among Federer, Sampras, Lendl and Laver deserves to burn in hell for utter stupidity.

380pistol
06-12-2009, 12:33 PM
There should be a 'vote ban' feature on these forums. Someone who considers Gonzalez as a contestant among Federer, Sampras, Lendl and Laver deserves to burn in hell for utter stupidity.

It never ceases to amaze me around here.

jimbo333
06-12-2009, 12:40 PM
There should be a 'vote ban' feature on these forums. Someone who considers Gonzalez as a contestant among Federer, Sampras, Lendl and Laver deserves to burn in hell for utter stupidity.

Are you aware of who Pancho Gonzalez (Gonzales) actually is?

Or are you maybe a tiny bit stupid:)

T1000
06-12-2009, 12:41 PM
There should be a 'vote ban' feature on these forums. Someone who considers Gonzalez as a contestant among Federer, Sampras, Lendl and Laver deserves to burn in hell for utter stupidity.

you would be one of the first

pc1
06-12-2009, 12:45 PM
There should be a 'vote ban' feature on these forums. Someone who considers Gonzalez as a contestant among Federer, Sampras, Lendl and Laver deserves to burn in hell for utter stupidity.

Just look at Gonzalez's record and you'll realize how fantastic it was. The guy was a 6'3 1/2" great athlete who may have had the greatest serve ever, a terrific volley and was the best player in the world for years. The man defeated Tony Trabert, a great player on a tour by 74 to 27. Some players would love to have that record for the year against average players.

Gonzalez won a ton of Pro Tours and won a lot of Pro Majors. I think he won 14 regular and Pro Majors. I think he won about 80 some odd tournaments also despite the fact he didn't really play in that many tournaments because he was touring against top players. Gonzalez would be great and dominant at his best in any era of tennis.

VGP
06-12-2009, 12:48 PM
....or don't look carefully. It's obvious.

It's spelled Gonzales BTW. That may be the confusion.

Again, Lew Hoad gets dissed.

pc1
06-12-2009, 01:40 PM
....or don't look carefully. It's obvious.

It's spelled Gonzales BTW. That may be the confusion.

Again, Lew Hoad gets dissed.

The Gonzalez family wants it with a "z" not an "s" nowadays.

Interesting article on Pancho written several years ago with the help of the Gonzalez family. Some factual errors but very nice.

http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/PG_.htm

Here's another interesting article on Pancho from Sports Illustrated.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1026099/index.htm

Borgforever
06-12-2009, 02:41 PM
Just look at Gonzalez's record and you'll realize how fantastic it was. The guy was a 6'31/2" great athletic who may have had the greatest serve ever, a terrific volley and was the best player in the world for years. The man defeated Tony Trabert, a great player on a tour by 74 to 27. Some players would love to have that record for the year against average players.

Gonzalez won a ton of Pro Tours and won a lot of Pro Majors. I think he won 14 regular and Pro Majors. I think he won about 80 some odd tournaments also despite the fact he didn't really play in that many tournaments because he was touring against top players. Gonzalez would be great and dominant at his best in any era of tennis.

Agree completely. Gonzalez could seriously be THE GOAT. If Gonzalez played today he would've earned a truck-load of prize money (insert any number you choose between 40 and 100 followed by at least six zeros in American Dollars) so he would've had a better situation around him and everyone would've known who he was...

CEvertFan
06-12-2009, 03:00 PM
There should be a 'vote ban' feature on these forums. Someone who considers Gonzalez as a contestant among Federer, Sampras, Lendl and Laver deserves to burn in hell for utter stupidity.


LOL. Amusing to say the least. You are probably 12 years old and have never even heard of Pancho Gonzales. Go read Wikipedia like a good boy, which will at least give you a bit of an idea about who he was.

VGP
06-12-2009, 03:08 PM
The Gonzalez family wants it with a "z" not an "s" nowadays.



Good to know.....

gpt
06-12-2009, 10:00 PM
There should be a 'vote ban' feature on these forums. Someone who considers Gonzalez as a contestant among Federer, Sampras, Lendl and Laver deserves to burn in hell for utter stupidity.

WTF
Pancho beat Laver at least twice in 1971
Please expalin yourself Guillermo

nfor304
06-12-2009, 10:13 PM
The Gonzalez family wants it with a "z" not an "s" nowadays.

Interesting article on Pancho written several years ago with the help of the Gonzalez family. Some factual errors but very nice.

http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/PG_.htm

Here's another interesting article on Pancho from Sports Illustrated.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1026099/index.htm

That sports illustrated article is a really good read. thanks for posting

380pistol
06-12-2009, 10:32 PM
....or don't look carefully. It's obvious.

It's spelled Gonzales BTW. That may be the confusion.

Again, Lew Hoad gets dissed.

From my knowledge the original spelling is Gonzalez. But somewhere along the line he became known as Gonzales, that's what he was known as as a tennis player.

Anyway there shouldn't be any confusion. Pancho is one of (if not) the greatest ever, and why the hell would Fernando be anywhere near anything that has to do with the GOAT?? That's beyond me.

anointedone
06-13-2009, 04:01 AM
Modern racquet era (this is right in the middle of everyones prime):

Australian Open: 1. Federer, 2. Courier, 3. Lendl, 4. Agassi, 5. Sampras or Nadal

French Open: 1. Borg, 2. Nadal, 3. Lendl, 4. Wilander, 5. Courier or Muster

Wimbledon: 1. Sampras, 2. Federer, 3. Becker, 4. McEnroe, 5. Edberg or Nadal

U.S Open: 1. Federer, 2. Sampras, 3. McEnroe, 4. Connors, 5. Lendl

It is difficult to say since there are different matchups, playing conditions change back and forth at various slams some over time, etc...

hoodjem
06-13-2009, 08:23 AM
There should be a 'vote ban' feature on these forums. Someone who considers Gonzalez as a contestant among Federer, Sampras, Lendl and Laver deserves to burn in hell for utter stupidity.
Is this a case of the kettle calling the pot black, or a case of misspelling?

Pancho has eight years as world no. 1--tied with Laver for most in the history of the game.

380pistol
06-13-2009, 10:48 AM
Back to the matter at hand.....

If were going open/era and modern racquets....

Australian Open -Agassi, Federer, Sampras/Courier/Lendl
French Open - Borg, Nadal, Kuerten, Lendl, Wilander/Vilas/Muster
Wimbledon - Sampras, Borg/Federer, McEnroe/Becker
US Open - Sampras/Federer, Connors/McEnroe/Lendl

Pre Open era (wood)....

Australian Open -Laver, Rosewall/Gonzales, Hoad
French Open - Rosewall, Cochet
Wimbledon - Gonzales, Laver, Budge/Hoad, Tilden/Perry
US Open - Tilden/Gonzales/Laver/Budge, Rosewall (maybe Hoad)

Kramer I don't know how to rate cuz many have said the things said about him were self promotion, or friends, colleagues and/or press trying to boost him. I don't know how much of that is true.

Cesc Fabregas
06-13-2009, 10:54 AM
Back to the matter at hand.....

If were going open/era and modern racquets....

Australian Open -Agassi, Federer, Sampras/Courier/Lendl
French Open - Borg, Nadal, Kuerten, Lendl, Wilander/Vilas/Muster
Wimbledon - Sampras, Borg/Federer, McEnroe/Becker
US Open - Sampras/Federer, Connors/McEnroe/Lendl

Agreed good list.

Carlo Giovanni Colussi
06-15-2009, 03:57 AM
From my knowledge the original spelling is Gonzalez. But somewhere along the line he became known as Gonzales, that's what he was known as as a tennis player...

Hi,
apparently he was born Gonzales and in his autobiography "Man with a racket" written with the help of Cy Rice, he signed his own book Gonzales.

Then probably circa the 60's he preferred to be spelt Gonzalez. If I have well understood it's more aristocratic with a z.

Note : I haven't yet read articles about his name mentioned by pc1 above.

pc1
06-15-2009, 04:38 AM
Hi,
apparently he was born Gonzales and in his autobiography "Man with a racket" written with the help of Cy Rice, he signed his own book Gonzales.

Then probably circa the 60's he preferred to be spelt Gonzalez. If I have well understood it's more aristocratic with a z.

Note : I haven't yet read articles about his name mentioned by pc1 above.

There were no articles discussing the spelling. I have some contacts with the family.

charliefedererer
06-15-2009, 07:39 AM
The Gonzalez family wants it with a "z" not an "s" nowadays.

Interesting article on Pancho written several years ago with the help of the Gonzalez family. Some factual errors but very nice.

http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/PG_.htm

Here's another interesting article on Pancho from Sports Illustrated.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1026099/index.htm

Thanks so much for the SI link. The story is 10 pages long and offers a fascinating look into the Lone Wolf's life of rage, and a glimpse into the barnstorming nightmare that preceeded open tennis, when the greatest player in the world earned a $15,000 contract for 7 straight years. I also didn't realize Gonzalez had married Andre Agassi's sister and that his father had disowned the both of them for it. What a tortured soul.
I wish there was more footage available of Gonzolez/Kramer/Hoad/Tilden et al.

jean pierre
06-16-2009, 06:11 AM
Australian Open (grass) : Vilas
French : Borg
Wimbledon : McEnroe
US Open : Connors

The 4 biggest stars in the history of this sport !

380pistol
06-16-2009, 09:01 AM
Australian Open (grass) : Vilas
French : Borg
Wimbledon : McEnroe
US Open : Connors

The 4 biggest stars in the history of this sport !

Good bets... if it was the late '70's-early '80's.