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flying24
06-13-2009, 03:27 PM
Who would you say since 1980 have been the 10 top players on each surface per gender. Here would be mine:

Men:

Grass:

1. Sampras
2. Federer
3. McEnroe
4. Becker
5. Edberg
6. Connors (only the 80s onwards)
7. Nadal
8. Ivanisevic
9. Krajicek
10. Agassi



Hard Courts:

1. Federer
2. Sampras
3. Lendl
4. McEnroe
5. Agassi
6. Edberg
7. Connors (again only his 80s onwards)
8. Courier
9. Safin
10. Becker


Clay:

1. Nadal
2. Lendl
3. Wilander
4. Kuerten
5. Borg (1980 and 1981 alone are still enough to put him here)
6. Muster
7. Courier
8. Federer
9. Bruguera
10. Ferrero


Women:

Grass:

1. Navratilova (even taking out 1978 and 1979)
2. Graf
3. Venus Williams
4. Serena Williams
5. Evert (counting only 1980 onwards)
6. Novotna
7. Davenport
8. Sharapova
9. Mauresmo
10. Mandlikova


Hard courts:

1. Graf
2. Seles
3. Navratilova
4. Serena Williams
5. Justine Henin
6. Davenport
7. Evert (only 1980 onwards othewise would obviously be higher)
8. Clijsters
9. Mandlikova
10. Venus Williams


Clay:

1. Graf
2. Seles
3. Evert (would be #1 if counted her whole career)
4. Henin
5. Sanchez Vicario
6. Navratilova
7. Pierce
8. Kuznetsova
9. Sabatini (amazing tier 1 success balanced by underacheving at French)
10. Martinez (same as Sabatini)

leonidas1982
06-13-2009, 03:38 PM
Fair list.

CEvertFan
06-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Where's McEnroe for grass? You don't even have him in the top 10.

Dean
06-13-2009, 07:51 PM
Where's McEnroe for grass? You don't even have him in the top 10.

I agree. I'd have him at No.3 after pete and fed. 5 straight wimbledon finals 1980-84 winning 3 times.

egn
06-13-2009, 07:52 PM
Who would you say since 1980 have been the 10 top players on each surface per gender. Here would be mine:

Men:

Grass:

1. Sampras
2. Federer
3. Becker Johnny Mac?
4. Edberg Move Becker here
5. Connors (only the 80s onwards) Move Edberg Here
6. Nadal Ivanisevic here
7. Ivanisevic Connors
8. Krajicek Agassi
9. Agassi Nadal
10. Hewitt Krajicek


Hard Courts:

1. Federer
2. Sampras
3. Lendl
4. McEnroe switch with Agassi
5. Agassi
6. Edberg
7. Connors (again only his 80s onwards)
8. Courier
9. Safin
10. Becker
Only thing is maybe sneak Rafter in and knock out one of the bottom 4

Clay:

1. Nadal
2. Lendl
3. Wilander
4. Kuerten
5. Borg (1980 and 1981 alone are still enough to put him here)
6. Muster
7. Courier
8. Federer
9. Bruguera ahead of Fed and Courier..in my opinion
10. Ferrero


Women:

Grass:

1. Navratilova (even taking out 1978 and 1979)
2. Graf
3. Venus Williams
4. Serena Williams
5. Evert (counting only 1980 onwards)
6. Novotna
7. Davenport
8. Sharapova
9. Mauresmo
10. Mandlikova


Hard courts:

1. Graf
2. Seles toss up between her and Martina in my opinion
3. Navratilova
4. Serena Williams
5. Justine Henin
6. Davenport
7. Evert (only 1980 onwards othewise would obviously be higher)
8. Clijsters move down to 10 bump the other two up.
9. Mandlikova
10. Venus Williams


Clay:

1. Graf
2. Seles
3. Evert (would be #1 if counted her whole career)
4. Henin
5. Sanchez Vicario
6. Navratilova
7. Pierce
8. Kuznetsova
9. Sabatini (amazing tier 1 success balanced by underacheving at French)
10. Martinez (same as Sabatini)


The parts in bold are just my opinions but overall I agree with most of the lists and exception for mens grass all the players on the list. The womens list I felt were pretty spot on.

tudwell
06-13-2009, 08:40 PM
What about Borg on grass? From 1980 onward, he has a win and a runner up. That's better than Hewitt or Krajicek in their entire careers!

imalil2gangsta4u
06-13-2009, 08:44 PM
Besides missing mcenroe, very fair lists.

PERL
06-14-2009, 12:13 AM
Itís something common in sports but I donít see the point in making rankings by decade(s). Itís not natural and itís always unfair to a player or another.

Cenc
06-14-2009, 12:54 AM
i can say for men tennis (what i think):
grass:
sampras
becker
edberg
federer
ivanisevic
agassi
mcenroe
hewitt
rafter
nadal (although we are talking about extremely slow grass here)

clay: (excluding borg since he was more from 70s)
nadal
kuerten
bruguera
wilander
muster
courier
moya
agassi
ferrero
federer

hard
agassi
sampras
federer
lendl
courier
safin
becker
edberg
rafter
hewitt

carpet
sampras
becker
ivanisevic
edberg
agassi
rafter
rusedski
hewitt
federer
pioline

Dean
06-14-2009, 04:15 AM
becker and edberg above fed??? The guy won wimby 5 years in a row and holds the all time unbeaten streak on the surface.

Ivanisevic and agassi above mac??? Mac won more wimby's than both combined.

flying24
06-14-2009, 04:55 AM
Sorry I missed McEnroe on grass purely by accident. I inserted him in.

flying24
06-14-2009, 06:14 AM
Grass:

1. Sampras
2. Federer
3. Becker Johnny Mac?
4. Edberg Move Becker here
5. Connors (only the 80s onwards) Move Edberg Here
6. Nadal Ivanisevic here
7. Ivanisevic Connors
8. Krajicek Agassi
9. Agassi Nadal
10. Hewitt Krajicek

I accidentally skipped over McEnroe here. I have since corrected it. Anyway considering that I see you have Ivanisevic and Agassi higher than I do, while having Krajicek, Nadal, and Connors lower.

I rate Krajicek higher since he won Wimbledon in the ultimate fashion, beating Sampras in the midst of his run of winning all 7 Wimbledons. That to me automaticaly bumps him up.

Nadal has still to prove longevity on the surface but he has been in 3 Wimbledon finals and a row, lost 2 to Federer one hich was a classic, and won a classic over the great Federer. I know the grass was different then but Agassi has less Wimbledon finals than Nadal already has at such a young age, has no grass titles outside of Wimbledon. Furthermore I really dont see Agassi ever winning a Wimbledon final over Federer and I will take going 1-2 vs Federer at Wimbledon with two five setters vs going 1-2 vs Rafter at Wimbledon with two five setters. Agassi also has some horrible losses in the midst of his so called prime years (atleast age wise at Wimbledon) to people like Doug Flach and a young Tommy Haas.

Connors I give brownie points since he won Wimbledon in 1982 over McEnroe in the final which was a huge upset at the time. After McEnroe had dethroned Borg, long after Borg began his dominance of Connors, it seemed unfathomable Connors would ever win such a big title again and he managed 3 more the other 2 being U.S Opens of course). As a nearly 32 year old he also beat Lendl in the semis two years later. He was in the semis or finals 4 out of 5 years to open the decade even amongst a field of legends.

Ivanisevic I wasnt sure how to rank. Really he was so unlucky to keep running into Sampras so in a way. On the other hand when goldenopportunities presented himself he often blew them- 1996 losing to Stoltenburg!?!?! just about an hour after Sampras's loss to Krajicek was completed (and Ivanisevic owns Krajicek head to head IIRC). 1992 Wimbledon final vs Agassi which he was expected to win. 1998 Wimbledon final with Sampras where he blew alot of chances. Then when he ultimately won it well past his prime while it was an amazing perforamnce he didnt take down any Wimbledon winners to do it. So I am not totally sure how to rank him.

Anyway I dont have any problems with your rankings, I guess I was just explaining where mine were coming from seeing where they differ from yours.


Hard Courts:

1. Federer
2. Sampras
3. Lendl
4. McEnroe switch with Agassi
5. Agassi
6. Edberg
7. Connors (again only his 80s onwards)
8. Courier
9. Safin
10. Becker
Only thing is maybe sneak Rafter in and knock out one of the bottom 4

To be honest I never even thought of putting Rafter above those guys I have at the bottom. While back to back U.S Opens is impressive his overall hard court record IMO doesnt compare to Courier, Safin, or Becker. The biggest difference of all is Courier, Safin, and Becker achieved greatly at BOTH hard court slams, not just the U.S Open. Courier has been a multiple semifinal and finalist at the U.S Open in addition to a 2-time winner down under. Safin has been a winner at both, even though has limited # of quality showings at the Open he has 3 finals down under. Becker is a U.S Open Champion with many times in the semis there, while he is a 2 time Australian Open winner. Rafter has his 2 U.S Open titles, and no other appearances beyond the 4th round there. Then he has his 1 Australian Open semi at the end of his career, and no other appearnces beyond the 4th round there. Also looking at Masters titles and other performances on the surface he falls short of those guys clearly IMO.

Clay:

1. Nadal
2. Lendl
3. Wilander
4. Kuerten
5. Borg (1980 and 1981 alone are still enough to put him here)
6. Muster
7. Courier
8. Federer
9. Bruguera ahead of Fed and Courier..in my opinion
10. Ferrero

I had a hard time choosing between Courier, Federer, and Bruguera. However comparing Courier and Bruguera both have 2 French Opens and a 3rd French Open final. Both have 2 Masters titles on clay. I dont think Bruguera was ever as scary or unbeatable on clay as Courier was in 1992 though. Of course that is just an opinion, but look at the scores and the draw of Courier's 92 French title for example. 1993 was the year both were closest to their best together IMO. Courier spanked Bruguera when they played in Rome, but Bruguera got Courier at the big one at the French. IMO though Courier had an off day in that final and watching it I think prime Bruguera v prime Courier on clay that Courier would win more meetings than Bruguera on clay. I know some might disgagree on that though of course.

I do think Courier had more big wins to win his titles on clay than Bruguera though. Both had some but Courier had more.

Federer is a different time than either so harder to compare. His consistency over time and longevity on clay is outstanding though, and already easily surpasses both. He plays in an era of the one virtually unbeatable clay courter, yet does not (and has few other opportunities other than Nadal) have many quality wins on the surface. So a tough comparision.

AndrewD
06-14-2009, 07:18 AM
Who would you say since 1980 have been the 10 top players on each surface per gender. Here would be mine:

Men:

Grass:

1. Sampras
2. Federer
3. McEnroe
4. Becker
5. Edberg
6. Connors (only the 80s onwards)
7. Nadal
8. Ivanisevic
9. Krajicek
10. Agassi


You're kidding, aren't you? No Pat Cash and no Mats Wilander. That's just ridiculous.

Mats Wilander won 2 Australian Opens on grass - against top competition (won his first by beating McEnroe and Lendl), got to the quarters of Wimbledon 3 times and had a 5-1 Davis Cup record on grass.

Pat Cash had a career seriously hindered by injury but he still managed to win Wimbledon once, be runner-up at the Australian Open (on grass) plus 2 Quarter-finals and have a 24-4 Davis Cup record on grass.

Krajicek (one Wimbledon win, one quarter and one semi-final) is just a blip on the radar compared to Cash and Wilander and neither Agassi nor Ivanisevic deserve to be rated above them.
Nadal is playing in a hideously soft era and, regardless of his success, he just doesn't rate above any of the guys I've mentioned.

Seriously though, any list that only looks at Wimbledon success when it rates grass-court players is pretty hopeless.

Cenc
06-14-2009, 07:28 AM
becker and edberg above fed??? The guy won wimby 5 years in a row and holds the all time unbeaten streak on the surface.

Ivanisevic and agassi above mac??? Mac won more wimby's than both combined.

i put in no order however i dont think fed is any better grasscourter than edberg