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Cindysphinx
06-19-2009, 04:08 AM
Ho boy. I have a new player for my combo team. She tells me she played college tennis at a Div. 3 school back in the day. I do not know her age, but I would be surprised if she is under 40.

I checked the USTA self-rate guidelines, and it seems to suggest she has to rate at 4.5. Is that true? I have not seen her play, but those who have say she should be high 3.5. Because it is 7.5 combo, I could live with her being a 4.0, but is that even an option?

Suggestions?

rasajadad
06-19-2009, 04:19 AM
According to the USTA charts she can self rate at 4.0 because she's over 36 and a former D-III player.

goober
06-19-2009, 04:33 AM
According to the USTA charts she can self rate at 4.0 because she's over 36 and a former D-III player.

yes unless she happened to ranked top 150 Nationally or top 20 sectionally as a junior OR she was at a top ranking in D3 (they don't define what that is exactly). If this were the case she would have to rate 5.0 until she is 45 by the charts.

Atown
06-19-2009, 04:36 AM
Ho boy. I have a new player for my combo team. She tells me she played college tennis at a Div. 3 school back in the day. I do not know her age, but I would be surprised if she is under 40.

I checked the USTA self-rate guidelines, and it seems to suggest she has to rate at 4.5. Is that true? I have not seen her play, but those who have say she should be high 3.5. Because it is 7.5 combo, I could live with her being a 4.0, but is that even an option?

Suggestions?

One of my players was in this situation last fall and yes, it is true. The Self-Rate system will not allow her to rate below 4.5 if she fits into the 35-and-under category. (I'm not sure if it will give her 4.0 or 4.5 if she is in the 36-and-above category.)

A 4.0 rating (and perhaps even a 3.5 rating) is certainly possible if the facts in the given case warrant a lower rating (age, time away from the game, injuries, health issues, having children, prior usta league play, etc.). However, you may need to plead the player's case to the person in charge of adult leagues at your section in order for them to obtain the lower rating.

You'll need to see her play a few times and find out about any prior usta play before you make such such an appeal. I cannot stress how important it is to see the person play more than once (and preferably multiple times) before making such an appeal.

Hope this helps!

goober
06-19-2009, 04:43 AM
You'll need to see her play a few times and find out about any prior usta play before you make such such an appeal. I cannot stress how important it is to see the person play more than once (and preferable multiple times) before making such an appeal.

Hope this helps!

The only thing is if a former high level player is just coming back after a long layoff, she may look like a 3.5-4.0 player when you watch them play. After a couple months of serious play, she could easily be 4.5.

We had a former D1 player in one of our leagues (nonUSTA) that took 20 years off. The first couple matches he lost to strong 4.0 players. Nobody really thought too much of him. In fact a lot of the players could not believe he played D1 college tennis. By the end of the season though he was absolutely demolishing everybody.

Atown
06-19-2009, 04:46 AM
The only thing is if a former high level player is just coming back after a long layoff, she may look like a 3.5-4.0 player when you watch them play. After a couple months of serious play, she could easily be 4.5.

Very good point. Our player was not looking for "serious play" due to family constraints.

Topaz
06-19-2009, 04:54 AM
I don't have much to offer than an anecdote...evidently, according to her pro, one of my singles opponents this season played Div. III at some point of her life. I beat her 3 and 1 in a 3.5 match, and while she had a nice serve, her fitness was terrible. I wouldn't have put her age out of the 30s, but it was clear that she was at least playing at the correct level for her skills at that point.

I think with Div. III, there's a lot of variance. Another friend of mine, on a different team, had a tennis scholarship, and she's at 3.5 (and should be, based on her results). The school where she went, though, isn't especially known for tennis (not sure what division it would be).

So, sometimes the guidelines make things a bit more cloudy, when their intention is to do the opposite.

Goober brings up a good point...often when somebody with that good of a foundation starts playing regularly again, it isn't long before they are out of level.

Cindysphinx
06-19-2009, 05:11 AM
OK, so it sounds like 4.0 is what the computer will allow, assuming she is over 35. Then the question becomes whether she will be allowed to be a 3.5. It doesn't make much difference for our combo team, but it will make a big difference for her in Spring 2010.

I think I'll need to chat with her about what this means for her. And I guess I need to set up a doubles foursome. In my spare time. :sigh:

JavierLW
06-19-2009, 07:22 AM
Ho boy. I have a new player for my combo team. She tells me she played college tennis at a Div. 3 school back in the day. I do not know her age, but I would be surprised if she is under 40.

I checked the USTA self-rate guidelines, and it seems to suggest she has to rate at 4.5. Is that true? I have not seen her play, but those who have say she should be high 3.5. Because it is 7.5 combo, I could live with her being a 4.0, but is that even an option?

Suggestions?

You can have them file a self rating appeal to 3.5. Sometimes sections dont mind moving people down one single level if you have a good case for that.

There is a 26 year old guy that played Div 3 in our 3.5 league, he's going to not be allowed to play 3.5 because that's TWO levels below where he should be according to the chart.

Im not sure I agree with it, but I guess the reasoning is that even in a tiny division III school (let's say they have only 3000 students), the tennis team is usually pretty small. (maybe 10 people if they are lucky) So it's not like everyone gets to be on it, there is some selection involved. I guess they are assuming that means they are a 4.5ish player.

I know a lot of players who played D3, didnt play for awhile, came back and they dont seem to be much better then most of the 3.5 players, so reality probably all depends on someone's individual circumstances.

Cindysphinx
06-19-2009, 09:55 AM
Say, is there any way to expedite this whole process? My understanding is that the only way to self-rate is to do it in the process of registering for a team. Registration for September won't begin until August.

Can she self-rate without registering for a team?

SJS
06-19-2009, 12:47 PM
Say, is there any way to expedite this whole process? My understanding is that the only way to self-rate is to do it in the process of registering for a team. Registration for September won't begin until August.

Can she self-rate without registering for a team?

No, she cannot self-rate without registering for a team. But if she needs to appeal it's usually done within a few days.
As others have said there are a wide range of players within Div 3. If she wasn't on a highly ranked team and doesn't have a strong junior background she should get a 4.0 with no problem. Maybe a 3.5 if she hasn't played since college and/or has had injuries.

Cindysphinx
06-19-2009, 01:26 PM
OK, thanks!