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View Full Version : 2nd serve ace discrimination


stoble
06-24-2009, 06:13 PM
My feeling is that people don't think they can be aced on a 2nd serve and call good serves out because to them "it must have been out." This happens in every one of my matches. I hit a 2nd serve ace that lands directly ON TOP of the line and then there is a hesitation, then an "out" call. I realize on top of the line is pretty close and hard to call sometimes but my point is that there is no benefit of the doubt on 2nd serves. None. Any others have similar experiences? I'd be interested to know.


People, this is discrimination on the basis of service number. There is no equality of service in this day and age.



The other possibility is that at my angle and distance I don't have as a good a view of the line.

Casey10s
06-25-2009, 11:41 AM
What is your first serve percentage?

What I find out in matches is that if you are missing a great many of your first serves, you won't get many breaks on the second serve if it is close to the line. I think it is a tendency for people that if your opponent is missing most of his first serves, he can't be hitting second serve aces. But if your first serve percentages are high, you will get the calls on the second serve. Similar tendency by people is that if you are making most of your first serves, that second serve near the line must have been in.

When I am serving good, I get a lot of calls my way. If I am serving badly, I don't get those same calls. If you are consistent, whether in a good way or a bad way, the calls by your opponent will follow the same way.

seleswannabe
06-25-2009, 11:53 AM
I was in the opposite position today. My opponent called about 5-6 1st serves "in" that clearly looked "out" to me. I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do in that kind of situation? I was serving pretty good so maybe I was having the effect that Casey mentioned.

Ajtat411
06-25-2009, 12:00 PM
I notice what Casey is talking about also. When you serve well, the opponnet almost expects the ball to land in like all the other serves. It is a physchicologial thing.

Cindysphinx
06-25-2009, 12:45 PM
I have a slightly different theory, similar to what OP proposes.

The more peculiar or unusual the serve, the more likely it is to be called out. Call it "The Surprise Theory Of Hooking."

There are many players who play the ad court by standing well to their left, hoping to avoid hitting a backhand return. If you attempt to reach their BH, they will be expecting a flat serve.

Sometimes I will serve a slice out wide to their BH. This serve looks like it is going out, but if I do it right it will curve back in toward their BH.

This ball surprises them and they call it out. Nope, it was in. But they will never admit it, 'cause they weren't ready.

stoble
06-25-2009, 03:36 PM
What is your first serve percentage?

What I find out in matches is that if you are missing a great many of your first serves, you won't get many breaks on the second serve if it is close to the line. I think it is a tendency for people that if your opponent is missing most of his first serves, he can't be hitting second serve aces. But if your first serve percentages are high, you will get the calls on the second serve. Similar tendency by people is that if you are making most of your first serves, that second serve near the line must have been in.

When I am serving good, I get a lot of calls my way. If I am serving badly, I don't get those same calls. If you are consistent, whether in a good way or a bad way, the calls by your opponent will follow the same way.

I don't feel this fluctuates with how well I'm serving. My 1st serve percentage is usually a little over 50%. Not great, I know but I deal with it okay.

Cindy may be on to something though with the element of surprise having more to do with it. I think I'll start calling my shots like in billiards. "Okay 30-15 buddy, 2nd serve ace coming up!"

volleyman
06-25-2009, 05:46 PM
Interesting. The usual reaction from my opponents for my second serve aces is an incredulous look, a head shake and "Nice serve."

Nellie
06-25-2009, 06:28 PM
I feel the same way toward the end of the match, like in a tie breaker, when balls all of the sudden start getting called out because the points are "more important"

Steady Eddy
06-25-2009, 07:28 PM
I remember when my tennis circle first got to the level of occasionally serving aces. When someone got aced they often called it out. They were just used to the idea, that if they can't get to the ball, the ball must be out. You shouldn't base the call on that. You should base it on where the ball lands.

I think what you're talking about this the same phenomenon, people aren't expecting it, so when it happens, they deny it with an "out" call.

Ucantplay2much
06-25-2009, 08:09 PM
The more peculiar or unusual the serve, the more likely it is to be called out. Call it "The Surprise Theory Of Hooking."

I've noticed this one too. It seems to happen more hitting wide. It's a serious bummer to paint the outside line with a nice kick/slice and have it called out!

stoble
06-25-2009, 08:34 PM
I've noticed this one too. It seems to happen more hitting wide. It's a serious bummer to paint the outside line with a nice kick/slice and have it called out!

YES. That is the serve I'm talking about. In the deuce court you can get a great angle with the kick serve.

deltox
07-04-2009, 01:00 PM
I was in the opposite position today. My opponent called about 5-6 1st serves "in" that clearly looked "out" to me. I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do in that kind of situation? I was serving pretty good so maybe I was having the effect that Casey mentioned.

you will find players like that and me.

if a serve is closer than an inch or so i dont even hesitate and get distracted trying to make a line call. i play it unless its definitely out. some times in tournaments ive offended my opponents by not calling their serve out they thought was out and they stopped playing.

just do your best to be fair and thats all anyone can ask, be consistent

Lefty78
07-07-2009, 10:54 AM
Never noticed.

I hit a good amount of 2nd serve aces, and don't feel like I get hooked with bad calls too often.

In fact, I would say that I can't recall the last time I played a cheater. There were many of them when I played juniors; it was almost the norm. I play USTA M 30's these days, and while my opponents are both serious and competitive, everything is above board. And yes, it makes tennis much more fun.