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Cindysphinx
06-28-2009, 05:01 AM
I heard the weirdest thing the other day.

A bunch of us were carpooling to a match, and the conversation turned to the 7.0 mixed team that always wins the division. One of my teammates said that the way they recruit is that the captain picks up the court fees and registration fees for the best players.

Is this common? Do any of you captains do this, and would you do it? Do any of you players out there have such a deal with your captain?

There's nothing wrong with it, but it simply never occurred to me as a way to get stronger players.

Cindy -- who has no plans to spend her tennis budget on anyone but herself

herrburgess
06-28-2009, 05:34 AM
I heard the weirdest thing the other day.

A bunch of us were carpooling to a match, and the conversation turned to the 7.0 mixed team that always wins the division. One of my teammates said that the way they recruit is that the captain picks up the court fees and registration fees for the best players.

Is this common? Do any of you captains do this, and would you do it? Do any of you players out there have such a deal with your captain?

There's nothing wrong with it, but it simply never occurred to me as a way to get stronger players.

Cindy -- who has no plans to spend her tennis budget on anyone but herself

Yep. There's a captain in our area (one who always seems to end up at States) who even pays for his players' gas to get to the matches.

JavierLW
06-28-2009, 06:13 AM
I heard the weirdest thing the other day.

A bunch of us were carpooling to a match, and the conversation turned to the 7.0 mixed team that always wins the division. One of my teammates said that the way they recruit is that the captain picks up the court fees and registration fees for the best players.

Is this common? Do any of you captains do this, and would you do it? Do any of you players out there have such a deal with your captain?

There's nothing wrong with it, but it simply never occurred to me as a way to get stronger players.

Cindy -- who has no plans to spend her tennis budget on anyone but herself

Ive picked up those expenses for players who are just a sub before.

It's more to just avoid defaulting though then it is to win first or anything.

The idea is they may not even play or if they do it wont be much and then I wont feel bad. (and it's good for avoiding defaults)

If it was someone who played a lot I wouldnt do it, no matter how good they are. If they really want to play on my team, then it's likely they wont mind paying. If I have to encourage them by paying for it, then it makes me wonder how much they really want to be there.

And if they really arent into being there they likely could be the guys who bail out at the last minute because they have something better to do, especially if we manage to fall out of the running.

catfish
06-28-2009, 06:24 AM
I've heard of a couple of captains in my area that pay for players league fees, and for their hotel room and meals if they advance to Districts. I was shocked when I heard that. The players were perfectly capable of paying their own way. I can't imagine anyone paying my way, or asking me to pay for theirs. I suppose if someone had a real hardship, that would be different. :confused:

cak
06-28-2009, 07:10 AM
I've had a captain pay for a car service to pick my husband and daughters up from the airport so I would play a match. I've had a captain pick my daughter up from dance classes (for an entire season) so I could play matches. And I've had many a captain arrange babysitting so I could play matches. But bonuses, not yet.

Casey10s
06-28-2009, 01:41 PM
I had a guy on my 4.5 team about 6 or 7 years ago who told me of a captain of a 4.5 team in the Virginia area where he used to live. This captain would go to the local colleges and recruit players for his 4.5 team. He would pay for the league fees, court time, and what else. The players only had to show up for the matches. All the other teams were playing for second place. Over a seven year period, he made it the nationals all but 1 or 2 of those years. I think he made it to the final 4 maybe 4 years and won it all a couple of times. The next year he would do the same thing with another bunch of players recruited from the colleges.

I don't know if he is still around but this guy was pretty sick if you asked me. Seems similar to parents who live their lives through their kids.

Moz
06-28-2009, 01:46 PM
I think the paying of court time and registration is pretty common.

I had to buy my own beer unfortunately.

raiden031
06-28-2009, 02:34 PM
I think its kinda pathetic that a captain will pay for players' expenses as an incentive for them to join their team. I mean comeon its a recreational tennis league!!! Best case is you win Nationals and get a nice glass trophy and a couple T-shirts. Its fun, but not worth 'buying ' players for.

10sguy
06-28-2009, 02:51 PM
Here's what's behind SOME situations when player expenses are picked up. There are teams (not many - but think of the infamous "imposter" team at the 4.0 Nationals in Hawaii a few years ago) where B-I-G money is very often at stake . . . even in their weekend "social" matches; I've heard reports of five and even six figures worth of ca$h changing hands over one weekend within that group. My guess, though, is the situation to which Cindy refers may be more a case of an ego-driven captain doing extra little things to win. Sad!

Topaz
06-28-2009, 02:59 PM
I think the paying of court time and registration is pretty common.

I had to buy my own beer unfortunately.

Nobody has *that* much money, Moz!

On a more serious note...I know I would never do that as a captain, and not just because I can't afford it. That's a line that would scare me if I ever crossed it...that line into 'crazyland'!!!

Cindysphinx
06-28-2009, 03:13 PM
Nobody has *that* much money, Moz!

On a more serious note...I know I would never do that as a captain, and not just because I can't afford it. That's a line that would scare me if I ever crossed it...that line into 'crazyland'!!!

Yeah, I guess you have to decide how much it is worth to you to have a winning team.

Honestly, I've been on teams that went undefeated and teams that couldn't win a single match, and everything in between. The teams where you lose all the time are not fun, granted. But being somewhere in the middle of the pack where you like your teammates and can get the occasional win is sufficient for me.

On a side note, I cannot believe our spring season ended yesterday and people are *already* making plans for spring 2010. I think I may have already picked up two good players who are tired of riding the bench on a top team. Wow.

catfish
06-28-2009, 04:19 PM
I think its kinda pathetic that a captain will pay for players' expenses as an incentive for them to join their team. I mean comeon its a recreational tennis league!!! Best case is you win Nationals and get a nice glass trophy and a couple T-shirts. Its fun, but not worth 'buying ' players for.

I agree with you. It's pathetic. What kind of people think that advancing to post season of USTA league is so important that they'll pay players league fees and expenses? And what kind of people will accept someone covering their league fees and expenses? Topaz is right.....this is crossing into "crazyland".

raiden031
06-28-2009, 04:44 PM
I agree with you. It's pathetic. What kind of people think that advancing to post season of USTA league is so important that they'll pay players league fees and expenses? And what kind of people will accept someone covering their league fees and expenses? Topaz is right.....this is crossing into "crazyland".

There is an exception to this though in my opinion. When we made it to Nationals for both mixed and men's, our section gave the team $800 for men's and $600 for mixed to help with travel expenses. The captain divided up the money to those who needed it, so a few of us got some financial help. That is different because they were already on the team and couldn't afford to travel for the event, which is different than basically bribing a player to join your team.

J011yroger
06-28-2009, 04:55 PM
I have heard of former DI kids, and former world ranked players being paid per match to play on a 4.5 team. . .

J

eagle
06-28-2009, 05:31 PM
Are these the same guys who buy huge extravagant vehicles or toys to compensate for areas they are deficient? :)

r,
eagle

Steady Eddy
06-28-2009, 05:34 PM
I have heard of former DI kids, and former world ranked players being paid per match to play on a 4.5 team. . .

J
When I went to watch the 4.5 championships in my town, I was really shocked to see that it was between Nadal and Fed. Surely they're not 4.5! :evil:

raiden031
06-28-2009, 06:51 PM
When I went to watch the 4.5 championships in my town, I was really shocked to see that it was between Nadal and Fed. Surely they're not 4.5! :evil:

It sounds like in some areas it is more lucrative to play in a usta league than it is to be say ranked #250 in the world.

catfish
06-28-2009, 06:52 PM
There is an exception to this though in my opinion. When we made it to Nationals for both mixed and men's, our section gave the team $800 for men's and $600 for mixed to help with travel expenses. The captain divided up the money to those who needed it, so a few of us got some financial help. That is different because they were already on the team and couldn't afford to travel for the event, which is different than basically bribing a player to join your team.

True. If someone was having a rough time financially, help would be fine. But the bribes are pretty crazy. In the cases in my area that I'm aware of, there was no financial need. It was simply a case of a captain who wanted to win so bad that he paid expenses to entice players. And frankly, I couldn't believe the players accepted. I guess it fed their huge egos.

precision2b
06-28-2009, 07:01 PM
Yeah, I guess you have to decide how much it is worth to you to have a winning team.

Honestly, I've been on teams that went undefeated and teams that couldn't win a single match, and everything in between. The teams where you lose all the time are not fun, granted. But being somewhere in the middle of the pack where you like your teammates and can get the occasional win is sufficient for me.

On a side note, I cannot believe our spring season ended yesterday and people are *already* making plans for spring 2010. I think I may have already picked up two good players who are tired of riding the bench on a top team. Wow.

Cindy, I found a newer version of Random Error Generator, Version 3.5 Saturday!!! I played like carp! You may want to update LOL!!! :-x

JavierLW
06-28-2009, 07:08 PM
On a side note, I cannot believe our spring season ended yesterday and people are *already* making plans for spring 2010. I think I may have already picked up two good players who are tired of riding the bench on a top team. Wow.

Sometimes that happens because if you get someone from another team, it's easier to do it before the end of the current season.

Sometimes when the season ends, a captain will ask people if they are playing next year already and if they are somewhat loyal that will pretty much make them feel obligated to go at it another year if they have already said yes.

dennis10is
06-28-2009, 07:20 PM
On Long Island, a typical signing bonus for a solid 3.5 is low six figures.

A top notch 4.5 is around a half Million for the season.

A 5.0 gets about 2M plus local product endorsements.

Pretty typical American suburban tennis league.

duketennisgal
06-29-2009, 02:54 AM
I think it's fairly common, I know it's happened to me once. I was on a 4.5 club team which came up with a rather large fee for non club members. I was told not to worry about it, I assumed that the club just waived the fee for me because I was told to not tell anybody else on the team, but it turns out my captain paid for me to play. I wouldn't have allowed it had I known about it though.

Cindysphinx
06-29-2009, 03:21 AM
Now that I think about it, I did pay a player's fees once. This player had been with me for several seasons and fell on serious hard times. Lost her job, then her house due to foreclosure. Got depressed, kind of disappeared. Finally told me all the trouble and said she'd have to pay me the fees in installments, so I told her I'd eat the fees (something like $100). I would have done that for her even if she had been a weak player. If the situation were reversed, I would hope someone would cut me a break.

BounceHitBounceHit
06-29-2009, 05:24 AM
I'm pretty sure it's not uncommon for kids straight out of DI programs to show up playing 4.5. I don't know if they are paid or not, but I can't imagine any other reason they'd want to do it. ;) BHBH

sureshs
06-29-2009, 09:21 AM
No wonder there are so many threads about unpleasant league experiences. If somebody is paying you to play, that means they are dead serious about winning and really shouldn't be classified as recreational players.

Tarboro
06-29-2009, 12:05 PM
All teams are run differently, but generally subs are not asked to chip in for court/league fees, and in return have lower priority in scheduling (at least, that's my experience).

A friend of mine was asked by another captain to play on his team in our non-USTA league. He asked me what I was paying in league fees, as his captain-to-be had quoted him $75/season. I told him I was paying $50 (captains have discretion on what they charge their players so long as they cover the league fees on behalf of their teams). The disparity seemed a little much to me, so I told him I'd get him something in writing if he wanted to ask his captain to match our price. He ended up being a sub and playing nearly every match, which works out to a free season.

I could have been upset, but since he's a friend of mine I was just glad to see him get to play and not have to shell out an extra $25/season for a few marginal benefits.

For the extra $25, apparently the captain provides balls for each home match (cheap Penns, but at least you don't have to remember to bring your own). For playoffs the captain brings a cooler with water and Gatorade in limited supply. I'm keeping my $50/year ($25 x 2 seasons) and staying with my present team.

Cindysphinx
06-29-2009, 05:38 PM
Wow. I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around how things work in your league, Tarboro.

All teams are run differently, but generally subs are not asked to chip in for court/league fees, and in return have lower priority in scheduling (at least, that's my experience).

Now and then, players volunteer to be on my team as a "sub." I am never sure what exactly they are proposing. I don't understand why anyone would want to pay $45 in registration fees and perhaps never get to play a match. What arrangements do other USTA captains make such that it makes sense to have "subs."

A friend of mine was asked by another captain to play on his team in our non-USTA league. He asked me what I was paying in league fees, as his captain-to-be had quoted him $75/season. I told him I was paying $50 (captains have discretion on what they charge their players so long as they cover the league fees on behalf of their teams). The disparity seemed a little much to me, so I told him I'd get him something in writing if he wanted to ask his captain to match our price. He ended up being a sub and playing nearly every match, which works out to a free season.

Wow. You just blew my mind. The captains can charge players different amounts to be on the team, based on how skilled the player is perceived to be? Do the players compare notes on this? If I knew someone else was paying just $25 and playing the same number of matches as me but I was being charged $75, I wouldn't look too kindly on that.

J011yroger
06-29-2009, 05:59 PM
^^^ I am pretty sure he means different captains charge their teams different amounts, but each member of the team pays the same amount.

So everyone on Team A pays $75, and everyone on team B pays $50.

J

cghipp
06-29-2009, 06:14 PM
On Long Island, a typical signing bonus for a solid 3.5 is low six figures.

A top notch 4.5 is around a half Million for the season.

A 5.0 gets about 2M plus local product endorsements.

Pretty typical American suburban tennis league.LOL! Due to current market conditions, some captains may find they're upside down on their players.

(Take that however you like! ;) )

Topaz
06-29-2009, 06:21 PM
On Long Island, a typical signing bonus for a solid 3.5 is low six figures.



Time to relocate!!!

dennis10is
06-29-2009, 06:51 PM
Time to relocate!!!

Cost of living is very high.

For example, I have to tip my USPS mail carrier a Mercedez C class every year.

My UPS gets a BMW. My Fedex gets an Audi.

Things add up.

I also have to pay protection insurance to my police, fire, Italian, Iranian, Irish, Polish, Jewish, Catholic, Budhist, Moroccon, Jamaican, Canadian protection agencies.

Don't forget Earthquake insurance, Alien invasion insurance, ice berg collision insurance.

It is very expensive to live on Long Island.

And of course, Ike Park membership: 500K one time membership. 10K per month club fees.

J011yroger
06-29-2009, 07:23 PM
^^^ Don't forget the Serbians, and the monthly Starbucks bill.

J

precision2b
06-29-2009, 07:31 PM
Heck all we have to do is give the good old boys a gallon of shine and we are set!!!

cghipp
06-29-2009, 07:43 PM
In SC it's two cartons of cigarettes.