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Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 09:28 AM
I was on three teams this spring: the 3.5 team I captain, a 3.5 team someone else captains, and a 4.0 team. The 3.5 team someone else captains is the only one that was in playoff contention.

At the end of the season, I sent out a happy e-mail telling everyone how we did, attempting to highlight the positive accomplishments and play down our struggles. I thanked everyone for their play and responsiveness, etc.

On my 4.0 team, each player received a cute miniature trophy, engraved and everything. (I could not attend the awards ceremony, but I received the e-mail about it.) The trophies were not the same, though. The three strongest players were dubbed "Most Extraordinary." The next strongest group was called "Most Exceptional." Then came a group called "Most Excellent." The final group was called "Most Outstanding." Two of the older players were called "Most Dazzling." The crazy-strong 4.0 player was given MVP, and the lowest-rated player was given "Most Improved." Me, I was happy to escape with "Most Excellent."

I have to say, being publicly evaluated in this way is unsettling to me. I feel like I have a reasonable take on where I stand relative to others. I am well aware that I am not the strongest 3.5 to take the court in our area, but I gave 100% in all of my matches, practiced hard, and tried to improve. Honestly, having different awards presented based on perceived strength was unnerving, as I know my "award" is only third or fourth best. (I also do not agree with some of the levels assigned to my teammates and think their contributions are being trivialized, but I guess that is their problem).

Is this sort of thing common? It never occurred to me to sign off for the season with a message that says "Here's who was strong and here's who was weak." Maybe this is typical?

Xisbum
07-07-2009, 09:54 AM
I was on three teams this spring: the 3.5 team I captain, a 3.5 team someone else captains, and a 4.0 team. The 3.5 team someone else captains is the only one that was in playoff contention.

At the end of the season, I sent out a happy e-mail telling everyone how we did, attempting to highlight the positive accomplishments and play down our struggles. I thanked everyone for their play and responsiveness, etc.

I have to say, being publicly evaluated in this way is unsettling to me. I feel like I have a reasonable take on where I stand relative to others. I am well aware that I am not the strongest 3.5 to take the court in our area, but I gave 100% in all of my matches, practiced hard, and tried to improve. Honestly, having different awards presented based on perceived strength was unnerving, as I know my "award" is only third or fourth best. (I also do not agree with some of the levels assigned to my teammates and think their contributions are being trivialized, but I guess that is their problem).

Is this sort of thing common? It never occurred to me to sign off for the season with a message that says "Here's who was strong and here's who was weak." Maybe this is typical?

:confused: Did you leave something out, Cindy? :confused:

JavierLW
07-07-2009, 10:04 AM
I was on three teams this spring: the 3.5 team I captain, a 3.5 team someone else captains, and a 4.0 team. The 3.5 team someone else captains is the only one that was in playoff contention.

At the end of the season, I sent out a happy e-mail telling everyone how we did, attempting to highlight the positive accomplishments and play down our struggles. I thanked everyone for their play and responsiveness, etc.

I have to say, being publicly evaluated in this way is unsettling to me. I feel like I have a reasonable take on where I stand relative to others. I am well aware that I am not the strongest 3.5 to take the court in our area, but I gave 100% in all of my matches, practiced hard, and tried to improve. Honestly, having different awards presented based on perceived strength was unnerving, as I know my "award" is only third or fourth best. (I also do not agree with some of the levels assigned to my teammates and think their contributions are being trivialized, but I guess that is their problem).

Is this sort of thing common? It never occurred to me to sign off for the season with a message that says "Here's who was strong and here's who was weak." Maybe this is typical?

No, I think it's generally bad to highlight your players downfalls or misacheivements. It also sounds kind of childish and it breeds gossip and isnt good as far as having a "team" (and not just a random collection of bickering people who are only there to get their weekly tennis in).

On my team we do a lot to celebrate our accomplishments and I have a spreadsheet of everyone's record over the years, and I decided never to publish it for that reason. (I publish things like most wins, winning percentage, and such, but nothing on there shows any bad amounts of wins or winning percentage)

Some people have losing records for whatever explainable reason and there is no point in everyone knowing that. Or even for them to know that because there's nothing saying they cant come back next year and do better.

Sometimes if you know you're 8-20 or whatever that can affect your play as well, even though that is very meaningless in so as far as how you will do today.

So it's just bad for the team and isnt really worthwhile. (and it's very childish as well, we're not in high school anymore..... We can grade ourselves just fine....)

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 10:15 AM
:confused: Did you leave something out, Cindy? :confused:

Whoops! A whole paragraph is missing. Weird.

I'll go back and edit. Hold please . . . .

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 10:28 AM
I should add that I (and I assume everyone else) received a private letter in the mail thanking us for our play and telling us how we needed to improve.

My gist of my letter was how over time and with experience I would come to understand more about doubles strategy and why the captain asks us to play the way he does.

That made me raise an eyebrow, for two reasons. First, I think I understand doubles strategy as well as he does, although our opinions do differ on certain points. Second, I can't believe he didn't write, "Good lord, woman! When are you going to learn to hit a groundstroke? Work on that above all else, will you? Your groundstrokes are *killing* you!"

Now *that* would resonate! :)

OrangePower
07-07-2009, 10:35 AM
I was on three teams this spring: the 3.5 team I captain, a 3.5 team someone else captains, and a 4.0 team. The 3.5 team someone else captains is the only one that was in playoff contention.

At the end of the season, I sent out a happy e-mail telling everyone how we did, attempting to highlight the positive accomplishments and play down our struggles. I thanked everyone for their play and responsiveness, etc.

On my 4.0 team, each player received a cute miniature trophy, engraved and everything. (I could not attend the awards ceremony, but I received the e-mail about it.) The trophies were not the same, though. The three strongest players were dubbed "Most Extraordinary." The next strongest group was called "Most Exceptional." Then came a group called "Most Excellent." The final group was called "Most Outstanding." Two of the older players were called "Most Dazzling." The crazy-strong 4.0 player was given MVP, and the lowest-rated player was given "Most Improved." Me, I was happy to escape with "Most Excellent."

I have to say, being publicly evaluated in this way is unsettling to me. I feel like I have a reasonable take on where I stand relative to others. I am well aware that I am not the strongest 3.5 to take the court in our area, but I gave 100% in all of my matches, practiced hard, and tried to improve. Honestly, having different awards presented based on perceived strength was unnerving, as I know my "award" is only third or fourth best. (I also do not agree with some of the levels assigned to my teammates and think their contributions are being trivialized, but I guess that is their problem).

Is this sort of thing common? It never occurred to me to sign off for the season with a message that says "Here's who was strong and here's who was weak." Maybe this is typical?

I don't think that players should be 'graded' in a public way.

Having said that, are you certain that this is what was being done? You're saying that "Most Extraordinary" > "Most Exceptional" > "Most Excellent" > "Most Outstanding" > "Most Dazzling". To me they all seem like synonyms. Is it possible that it was done innocently and that it's you that's turning it into a version of an ink-blot test?

Perry the Platypus
07-07-2009, 10:38 AM
Wait a sec......so your captain was some dude? How did this guy become the captain of a ladies team?

OrangePower
07-07-2009, 10:40 AM
I should add that I (and I assume everyone else) received a private letter in the mail thanking us for our play and telling us how we needed to improve.

My gist of my letter was how over time and with experience I would come to understand more about doubles strategy and why the captain asks us to play the way he does.

That made me raise an eyebrow, for two reasons. First, I think I understand doubles strategy as well as he does, although our opinions do differ on certain points. Second, I can't believe he didn't write, "Good lord, woman! When are you going to learn to hit a groundstroke? Work on that above all else, will you? Your groundstrokes are *killing* you!"

Now *that* would resonate! :)

Ok, that's definitely crossing the line. I would not play for such a captain again. Even if it was well-intentioned, I can't put up with that kind of arrogant presumptuousness.

vagabondma
07-07-2009, 10:48 AM
So your captain takes the time to get trophies for the whole team, and gets them engraved. Not to mention he actually captained a woman's team for the simple reason of allowing people to play 4.0. And then he lets a bunch of 3.5 and even a 3.0 player on the team, holds practices, and tries to coach everyone and help them improve. And he sends each player a personal letter at the end of the season.
I've captained my fair share of teams, and all of that is above and beyond the responsibilities of any captain. How about just saying "thank you" instead of complaining? Most people would love to have a captain like that.

spot
07-07-2009, 12:06 PM
On my mens team we only play doubles so who would beat who in singles has been a hotly contested topic whenever adult beverages are served. (So 2 or 3 times a week) At some point over said Adult Beverages we decided that we needed to do a singles ladder. I sent out an email asking for everyone on the team to rate everyone else on the team 1-17 in ability for singles. Then I compiled the list and sent out the averages. (what you rated anyone was a secret but I did say what your lowest rating was). Literally 300 emails were sent out within 4 hours debating the ratings and various challenges were put out there by people who thought they were underrated. For us we actually publish a line and bet money on who will win the challenge matches and we still play one to two a week. (I am currently up a ridiculous amount of money from betting on these challenge matches which certainly gives people pause when they want to question my lineups). Everyone just has a good time with it but this is a team ridiculously good at laughing at ourselves. I still think that we are going to be the first team in history where there was a heckling complaint filed against a teammate. I personally intend to frame that complaint letter and put it up in my pool room.

I'm sure you will be shocked to hear that the women's team has declined our offer to compile a singles ladder for their team.

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 01:32 PM
So your captain takes the time to get trophies for the whole team, and gets them engraved. Not to mention he actually captained a woman's team for the simple reason of allowing people to play 4.0. And then he lets a bunch of 3.5 and even a 3.0 player on the team, holds practices, and tries to coach everyone and help them improve. And he sends each player a personal letter at the end of the season.
I've captained my fair share of teams, and all of that is above and beyond the responsibilities of any captain. How about just saying "thank you" instead of complaining? Most people would love to have a captain like that.

What makes you think I didn't say "Thank you"?

In fact, I did. Because I am appreciative that he formed this start-up team and gave folks a chance to play. Whether other people said thanks I cannot say. I do think he was a good captain, and I would play for him again. This end-of-season awards thing is new to me, so I wondered what you all thought of it. It strikes me as a little odd, as I said, but perhaps it is common.

As for whether the categories are, um, random . . . . , hey, anything is possible. It seems to me that you should either give everyone the same award (other than MVP), or you should give everyone a different award. That way there can be no misunderstandings. And if you do give out "categories," and you list them in a certain order, that does send a certain message.

Here is what our swim team does. Each swimmer gets an award, hopefully something that reflects their personality (one year my son's was "15-18, No Problem!"). The slowest swimmers are not grouped with the other slow swimmers. Even the MVP award is objective -- it is the swimmer who won the most points for the team. If you do it in a way that leads folks to conclude that they are "not that good," you have to expect some raised eyebrows.

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 01:37 PM
Ok, that's definitely crossing the line. I would not play for such a captain again. Even if it was well-intentioned, I can't put up with that kind of arrogant presumptuousness.

That's funny. The letter didn't bother me. It was private, it was just his opinion. I happen to disagree and think other criticisms of my play would be more richly deserved, but I don't mind hearing how I could improve.

Still, I could never send out any season-ending criticism to my own players. They would be deeply offended, I would guess.

cghipp
07-07-2009, 01:40 PM
I don't think it would bother me because there's already such a thing as open grading - it's called "TennisLink," LOL! All my triumphs and failures are out there for all to see.

JavierLW
07-07-2009, 02:24 PM
What makes you think I didn't say "Thank you"?

In fact, I did. Because I am appreciative that he formed this start-up team and gave folks a chance to play. Whether other people said thanks I cannot say. I do think he was a good captain, and I would play for him again. This end-of-season awards thing is new to me, so I wondered what you all thought of it. It strikes me as a little odd, as I said, but perhaps it is common.

As for whether the categories are, um, random . . . . , hey, anything is possible. It seems to me that you should either give everyone the same award (other than MVP), or you should give everyone a different award. That way there can be no misunderstandings. And if you do give out "categories," and you list them in a certain order, that does send a certain message.

Here is what our swim team does. Each swimmer gets an award, hopefully something that reflects their personality (one year my son's was "15-18, No Problem!"). The slowest swimmers are not grouped with the other slow swimmers. Even the MVP award is objective -- it is the swimmer who won the most points for the team. If you do it in a way that leads folks to conclude that they are "not that good," you have to expect some raised eyebrows.

Giving awards out for a team is not new. We have a MVP and an "Most Improved" on my team.

I actually copyed it from our old High School team and others had thought of it as well. It seemed campy at first, but after doing it for 8 years it kind of means something after awhile, especially if you let everyone vote on it (and not just have the captain decide).

Ive been around tennis leagues and such for awhile, and I know the reason why they give out more awards and specific categorys is because they feel it's fun to give out more awards.

Like my friend runs a High School / Adult Challenge Latter and rather then have the rankings go from 1 to 250, we make multiple different categorys (called Gold or Silver or something) and just rank them 1 to 25 on each, so some kid doesnt feel bad about being ranked 222 on the list but maybe it says they are #3.

Not everyone can be the "best" so by making different categorys it gives others a chance to shoot for something. (that's sometimes the purpose of having "Most Improved", it gives some average player a shot at getting something, because normally the MVP is the MVP (also known as biggest sandbagger that we happen to like....))

Too many categorys though probably reduce how special the awards might seem so it's a definate trade off. I think 2 is enough, maybe 3 if we thought of something else but I dont think I care for that. (maybe the third can be for the longest match or something, one guy had a 4 hour 15 minute long match that took over 8 days and 17 hours to complete this season)

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 02:45 PM
I've only given my players a gift once. I gave them all visors with a cute saying embroidered on them. I haven't done it since because it was expensive and, well . . . I feel like I pour a lot of myself into captaining as it is, so hosting everyone for dinner and giving out gifts/awards would be the death of me. I mean, I'd actually have to *clean* this place.

FloridaAG
07-07-2009, 02:54 PM
Ugh, team tennis - too much drama, too annoying - Play tennis, try hard, try to win, try to get better, have fun. Anything that detracts from these is a waste of time and energy, and I just don't have the time or energy to deal with stuff like that.

Always amazed to read these team tennis complaints.

AndrewD
07-07-2009, 03:17 PM
Cindy,

What trophy did the captain get?

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 03:41 PM
I don't know. He's a dude, so he doesn't play on the ladies team.

Although perhaps we would have won more if he had! :)

raiden031
07-07-2009, 05:29 PM
I didn't get no trophy or personal letter. Maybe with my performance I would qualify for "most improved". Personal letter would state, "with time, you will learn how to play the game of tennis".

HookEmJeff
07-07-2009, 07:26 PM
On my mens team we only play doubles so who would beat who in singles has been a hotly contested topic whenever adult beverages are served. (So 2 or 3 times a week) At some point over said Adult Beverages we decided that we needed to do a singles ladder. I sent out an email asking for everyone on the team to rate everyone else on the team 1-17 in ability for singles. Then I compiled the list and sent out the averages. (what you rated anyone was a secret but I did say what your lowest rating was). Literally 300 emails were sent out within 4 hours debating the ratings and various challenges were put out there by people who thought they were underrated. For us we actually publish a line and bet money on who will win the challenge matches and we still play one to two a week. (I am currently up a ridiculous amount of money from betting on these challenge matches which certainly gives people pause when they want to question my lineups). Everyone just has a good time with it but this is a team ridiculously good at laughing at ourselves. I still think that we are going to be the first team in history where there was a heckling complaint filed against a teammate. I personally intend to frame that complaint letter and put it up in my pool room.

I'm sure you will be shocked to hear that the women's team has declined our offer to compile a singles ladder for their team.


There was a thread in here a couple of weeks ago about stacking and how it should be illegal. The comment mentioned how team captains KNOW their true lineup strength and that they should fall in line under that and that would prevent the "stacking" problem in NTRP tennis.

I begged to differ and offered this very same scenario you laid out here as the result should each captain be forced to put numbered values on his players. Too subjective I said.

Classic, 300 e-mails. That would be about what I would expect of any team.


Jeff

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 08:19 PM
I didn't get no trophy or personal letter. Maybe with my performance I would qualify for "most improved". Personal letter would state, "with time, you will learn how to play the game of tennis".

HA!!

I was wondering about that, Raiden. This guy coaches both of our teams, but it seems the ladies always got a bit more attention.

I wonder. The things he taught us were really valuable. For instance, one of my partners came to the team with the hideous bad habit of playing way too close to the doubles alley. He spent an entire practice chiding her about it and training her to start in the middle of the box and adjust with the ball. Did the guys get that kind of coaching?

I guess the chicks are the Teachers' Pets! :) :)

JavierLW
07-07-2009, 08:26 PM
I've only given my players a gift once. I gave them all visors with a cute saying embroidered on them. I haven't done it since because it was expensive and, well . . . I feel like I pour a lot of myself into captaining as it is, so hosting everyone for dinner and giving out gifts/awards would be the death of me. I mean, I'd actually have to *clean* this place.

Hosting Dinner?

We have a end of season dinner but it's customary around here for the team to pay for the captain's for all of their hard work in putting the team together (otherwise they wouldnt get to play on it or maybe not at all.....).

I pay for the awards (two nice looking plaque's) but that's just because it looks cool, and I care about my team, we're a close knit group of guys that have a lot of fun out there.

raiden031
07-07-2009, 08:28 PM
HA!!

I was wondering about that, Raiden. This guy coaches both of our teams, but it seems the ladies always got a bit more attention.

I wonder. The things he taught us were really valuable. For instance, one of my partners came to the team with the hideous bad habit of playing way too close to the doubles alley. He spent an entire practice chiding her about it and training her to start in the middle of the box and adjust with the ball. Did the guys get that kind of coaching?

I guess the chicks are the Teachers' Pets! :) :)

It wasn't quite as personal, but he did things like that. We didn't have any practices though after the season started. Did you all practice all season long? I guess its easier to teach the women new things where as most of the guys were better than him already.

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 08:33 PM
Yes, we had a practice most every week unless we had a match that Saturday. I went to almost every one. I found them valuable. Typical team practices are just getting a bunch of people together and playing. His practices had a purpose -- big focus on net play -- so I enjoyed them.

That's interesting. I would think that lots of 3.5-4.0 guys would need to learn plenty about doubles. In my limited experience, guys think a lot of doubles strategy is hooey. Just hit the ball hard enough and you'll win, right?

I'm starting up a 7.5 combo team with several of the players from that 4.0 team. He's happy about this, as the more we play together over the winter the better we will be when we show up in April 2010.

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 08:36 PM
Hosting Dinner?

We have a end of season dinner but it's customary around here for the team to pay for the captain's for all of their hard work in putting the team together (otherwise they wouldnt get to play on it or maybe not at all.....).

I pay for the awards (two nice looking plaque's) but that's just because it looks cool, and I care about my team, we're a close knit group of guys that have a lot of fun out there.

Yeah, in our league, there is no post-match cocktail party. Matches are often late on weeknights, so few people want to go get drinks or hang out afterward.

The big chance to socialize is if someone hosts a dinner or whatever in their home. I did a Sunday brunch, but I just can't bear to do it again. It was so much work doing a brunch for 12 all by myself. My team often (but not always) gets me a gift, but really they don't need to. Their gift to me is responding to my e-mails promptly, showing up for matches on time, and generally not making me do a bunch of extra work.

raiden031
07-07-2009, 08:40 PM
Yes, we had a practice most every week unless we had a match that Saturday. I went to almost every one. I found them valuable. Typical team practices are just getting a bunch of people together and playing. His practices had a purpose -- big focus on net play -- so I enjoyed them.

That's interesting. I would think that lots of 3.5-4.0 guys would need to learn plenty about doubles. In my limited experience, guys think a lot of doubles strategy is hooey. Just hit the ball hard enough and you'll win, right?

I'm starting up a 7.5 combo team with several of the players from that 4.0 team. He's happy about this, as the more we play together over the winter the better we will be when we show up in April 2010.

I guess he stopped practicing with us because he was focusing so much time on your team. We were a lost cause, going winless. We were mostly 4.0 players, but probably alot were recent bump ups.

Cindysphinx
07-07-2009, 08:45 PM
That's interesting. As you know, we only had three 4.0 players, so it was a rough season for us as well. Still, we finished third from the bottom and beat both of the other two crazy-weak teams.

Do you think there was anything that could have been done with the line-ups for your team that might have helped you guys win one?

I ask because he tweaked his strategy for us after the season began, and it paid off. He had been playing the two strongest players together on Court One Doubles. He changed that to put one of them in at singles, and she usually one. Then he would bring out the one other woman who was capable of a singles win. And then he threw out some doubles teams and hoped one might win. So we won two team matches that way.

That's not half bad given that he gave everyone a decent number of matches. I got five matches, which is a lot for a player with no forehand . . . .

raiden031
07-07-2009, 09:30 PM
That's interesting. As you know, we only had three 4.0 players, so it was a rough season for us as well. Still, we finished third from the bottom and beat both of the other two crazy-weak teams.

Do you think there was anything that could have been done with the line-ups for your team that might have helped you guys win one?

I ask because he tweaked his strategy for us after the season began, and it paid off. He had been playing the two strongest players together on Court One Doubles. He changed that to put one of them in at singles, and she usually one. Then he would bring out the one other woman who was capable of a singles win. And then he threw out some doubles teams and hoped one might win. So we won two team matches that way.

That's not half bad given that he gave everyone a decent number of matches. I got five matches, which is a lot for a player with no forehand . . . .

It seemed the best players weren't available that much. Maybe playing me in doubles instead of singles because I was a lost cause in singles.

LuckyR
07-08-2009, 10:41 AM
These sorts of awards are a joke at best and insulting at worst. Every team has them, from my Little League teams through HS tennis, even my daughter's soccer teams. Basically they should just call the awards: "Most Popular" and "Child of Most KissUp Parent" and be done with it.

FloridaAG
07-08-2009, 02:17 PM
Is it common for someone to captain a team they don't play on? Is the captain a tennis pro? Why would you captain a team like that? Just trying to understand the dynamics.

JavierLW
07-08-2009, 03:12 PM
Is it common for someone to captain a team they don't play on? Is the captain a tennis pro? Why would you captain a team like that? Just trying to understand the dynamics.

That's usually considered to be a "coach", not a captain around here.

There is a difference, and sometimes the coach has a bit more weight with what goes on.

(the captain after all isnt really a coach, they are more like the team organizer then anything as much as they may want to think they are like George Halas or Phil Jackson)

Cindy's area is run by some separate organization that facilitates the whole thing so it's likely they just added a coach to make it more fun. (it does make it a lot more fun if the coach is good and they are a expert at "coaching" team tennis and particularly doubles)

My original team at 3.0 was created by the USTA in this fashion and it included a "coach" and one of the other players got talked into being the "captain". (unfortunally the "coach" was just a 3.5 player who happened to work as a rec department instructor, he ran horrible drills, was late to practice and seldom came to our matches and asked us all to give him $90 for the summer, I took over the team and we all voted to get rid of him the next year)

FloridaAG
07-09-2009, 05:24 AM
That's usually considered to be a "coach", not a captain around here.

There is a difference, and sometimes the coach has a bit more weight with what goes on.

(the captain after all isnt really a coach, they are more like the team organizer then anything as much as they may want to think they are like George Halas or Phil Jackson)

Cindy's area is run by some separate organization that facilitates the whole thing so it's likely they just added a coach to make it more fun. (it does make it a lot more fun if the coach is good and they are a expert at "coaching" team tennis and particularly doubles)

My original team at 3.0 was created by the USTA in this fashion and it included a "coach" and one of the other players got talked into being the "captain". (unfortunally the "coach" was just a 3.5 player who happened to work as a rec department instructor, he ran horrible drills, was late to practice and seldom came to our matches and asked us all to give him $90 for the summer, I took over the team and we all voted to get rid of him the next year)

Thanks for answering - my basic question was whether they get paid for it. Seems like a power trip situation, and unless the person is really a teacher etc., only a deuche would spend their time doing that.

JavierLW
07-09-2009, 06:21 AM
Thanks for answering - my basic question was whether they get paid for it. Seems like a power trip situation, and unless the person is really a teacher etc., only a deuche would spend their time doing that.

In Cindy's situation it sounds like it's a real tennis pro.

In my situation, yes, he was a deuche. $90 a person for the summer is an AWESOME price for a real teaching pro, but this guy was probably the worst Ive ever seen for drills (the kind where if you have 8 people in the drill he stops and talks for 10 minutes in the middle).

I dont think he just did it for the money though, he was just trying to get his foot in the door for a career in tennis and in some ways it did help the team get off the ground since it was just a random group of players that they gathered from rating clinics. (that was the last year for rating clinics which always proves to me how useful they were as far as getting new players involved with the league)

(he went on to eventually get into coaching High School tennis and won the coach of the year in our city last year)

Topaz
07-09-2009, 06:57 AM
Actually, from previous conversations, I don't think he is an actual tennis pro. I could be wrong.

And...it is '******'. ;) Get your insults spelled correctly, would 'ya?

Ummm, and personally, I do think it was meant in fun. Not sure how I would react in the same situation. If I was playing up like Cindy was, then I'd probably just let it go. If it were my 'main' team, I may look upon it differently.

However, the letter, telling me how to improve my game...would not be received well unless I'm paying this person or I've asked. Unsolicited advice from someone who is *not* the person I've hired to instruct me just seems to rub me the wrong way.

Edit...ahhh, ok, now I see why you are all spelling it incorrectly. The asterisks strike again!!!

raiden031
07-09-2009, 07:28 AM
Thanks for answering - my basic question was whether they get paid for it. Seems like a power trip situation, and unless the person is really a teacher etc., only a deuche would spend their time doing that.

All unpaid high school tennis coaches are deuches, thanks for the warning. :rolleyes:

raiden031
07-09-2009, 07:32 AM
In Cindy's situation it sounds like it's a real tennis pro.


Not a teaching pro, but a 3.5 player who clearly loves the game. He probably isn't the most gifted player, but has alot of knowledge. He is a coach, not really a good player, but he does play alot. He probably isn't qualified to be a high school coach, so instead he took on both men's and women's usta teams. Thats an honorable thing I'd say to do to volunteer your time to try to help make some better tennis players.

FloridaAG
07-09-2009, 07:47 AM
All unpaid high school tennis coaches are deuches, thanks for the warning. :rolleyes:

There is a big difference between volunteering as a high school tennis coash, and a 3.5 player instructing other 3.5 and 4.0 players who are adults how they should be playing tennis IMO. Of course I am generalizing, the concept is just really weird to me.

JavierLW
07-09-2009, 08:08 AM
Not a teaching pro, but a 3.5 player who clearly loves the game. He probably isn't the most gifted player, but has alot of knowledge. He is a coach, not really a good player, but he does play alot. He probably isn't qualified to be a high school coach, so instead he took on both men's and women's usta teams. Thats an honorable thing I'd say to do to volunteer your time to try to help make some better tennis players.

Right well Id say playing ability doesn't necessarily equate to whether you can coach or not.

If you're running drills, the quality of the drill is based on these things:

1) The ability to be able to convey information in a quick matter that's accepted that does not slow down the drill. (talking for 10 minutes during a "drill" is usually the sign of someone who's not great at giving drills) (sometimes you figure people skills are a BONUS here, some people who are reciting some book or just commenting on what they observe do not have it)

2) The ability to feed the ball well. (someone who is a very good feeder can even vary it from person to person so they can make sure it's not too easy and not too hard)

3) Simple things that shouldnt need to be said, like show up on time to your drill, etc....

Coaching skills:

1) Knowledge of how doubles is played helps as well as the ability to suggest partnerships that work.

2) If on court coaching is allowed, the ability to convey information that players accept, it's similar to what I mentioned for the drill. Being able to motivate someone is valuable here but that takes some people skills as well.

3) Show up to the matches and observe. (ours rarely did thus I dont think he had a clue what was going on in the matches thus couldnt give useful advice)

There's really nothing all that special about being a high school tennis coach (at a high level) either, although Im sure someone will be insulted by that.

The fact is on a high level high school team, you have a bunch of players who have generally been playing since they were 8 years old or younger and were taught by some teaching pro or well established program.

That's the case with my guy, he switched schools last year and just sort of fell into the team that's been winning Div 2 almost every year because they have a lot of great players. Before that, he was at the school that had possibly the best Div 2 kid in the state (he lost both years I saw him though, and I feel it's due to on court coaching).

Coaching at a public school or one where the kids are just learning how to play tennis is far more challenging (yet they usually have just about anyone as the coach).

I think coaching adults in these USTA Leagues is actually harder as well. (because you are dealing with a lot of players who either are not as experienced or they are club players who do not really play a lot of matches in the normal match format, especially doubles) Also adults are more stubborn and they do not change as easily as kids because we become very habit orientated.