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View Full Version : inside out fh - your top tips!


Ross K
07-07-2009, 09:58 PM
Right. This is definitely an area I really want to focus in on and master. In the past I've sometimes had a wicked inside out fh. However, it hasn't been something I've thought about particularly or been so conscious about technique-wise, thus the inconsistency. And now, presently my most common issue is - and this is despite trying to hit the ball more on its left-hand side to create more angle - the ball is going more centrally than I'm intending, ie I'm not finding that diagonal angle. And there might well be other issues too I'm not really aware of?...

So... top tips folks?... I really want to work and develop my inside out fh into a major ARod-like weapon!


Oh... BTW... came across these 2 earlier:

1. Hit with a very linear motion (like at the start your arm-pit is kind of closed more and your hitting arm isn't so far apart from body) and hit straight through the ball.

2. Close your stance up (at least be in neutral stance to the ball.)

Any more informed advice though?

Thanks

R.

Grizvok
07-08-2009, 03:36 AM
Well, I'd say that you really shouldn't worry about either of those tips.

First of all, I have a straight armed forehand so I definitely don't follow that technique at all and my inside-out forehand hasn't suffered because of it. I think you should be taking the ball as far away from your body as you are used to to insure consistency. Repeatedly taking the ball in too close to your body isn't necessarily a good thing. You're handcuffing yourself and I'd see why you'd have trouble getting good direction on the ball.

As for tip number two, I don't know where you got that one from either. If you watch the two best inside-out forehands in our sport (Federer's and Nadal's), you'll see them more often than not hitting close to a 3/4 open stance (which I prefer hitting all of my forehands from unless I'm running up to a short low ball that will be hit in a closed stance). However, you definitely do want to "angle" your body to hit an inside-out forehand. Meaning you should square up to the ball with your upper body so that hitting it with good direction inside-out isn't as difficult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiioqHPyYvM

Kevo
07-08-2009, 08:05 AM
I don't really advocate changing stances for a particular shot unless there is a good reason. Changing ball direction to me isn't a good reason. You should be able to hit directionally with your normal stance.

What you may need to do is change your positioning. Stance is relative to yourself and the ball, not the court. So when hitting inside out, you can still hit open stance if that's the way you normally hit. You probably need to change your position relative to the court so your facing the opponents corner more, which I believe is the same point Grizvok is making.

Trying to change where on the ball you hit it, or timing the ball differently, in order to change directions is more error prone than orienting yourself to hit a certain direction.

Grizvok
07-08-2009, 11:12 AM
I don't really advocate changing stances for a particular shot unless there is a good reason. Changing ball direction to me isn't a good reason. You should be able to hit directionally with your normal stance.

What you may need to do is change your positioning. Stance is relative to yourself and the ball, not the court. So when hitting inside out, you can still hit open stance if that's the way you normally hit. You probably need to change your position relative to the court so your facing the opponents corner more, which I believe is the same point Grizvok is making.

Trying to change where on the ball you hit it, or timing the ball differently, in order to change directions is more error prone than orienting yourself to hit a certain direction.

You're right, that's exactly what I meant when I said "squaring up to the ball" but I didn't really keep going and explain it further.

It's mainly a term we often used in soccer.

Power Player
07-08-2009, 12:37 PM
I hit with an open stance to both sides. I guess it is just timing and aim. There is really not much else that I consciously do, but I can hit either line off of both wings. I think the answer is get your forehand developed right. In that practice you will naturally start aiming it better and better.

Ross K
07-08-2009, 12:41 PM
Interesting^... thanks.

Any more comments ppl?

R.

Bud
07-08-2009, 12:58 PM
Right. This is definitely an area I really want to focus in on and master. In the past I've sometimes had a wicked inside out fh. However, it hasn't been something I've thought about particularly or been so conscious about technique-wise, thus the inconsistency. And now, presently my most common issue is - and this is despite trying to hit the ball more on its left-hand side to create more angle - the ball is going more centrally than I'm intending, ie I'm not finding that diagonal angle. And there might well be other issues too I'm not really aware of?...

So... top tips folks?... I really want to work and develop my inside out fh into a major ARod-like weapon!


Oh... BTW... came across these 2 earlier:

1. Hit with a very linear motion (like at the start your arm-pit is kind of closed more and your hitting arm isn't so far apart from body) and hit straight through the ball.

2. Close your stance up (at least be in neutral stance to the ball.)

Any more informed advice though?

Thanks

R.

Aim for the corner, not the sideline. Gives you a larger margin of error.

I find most inside/out FH's I hit (and I hit open stance, too)... when I miss... I overhit slightly wide.

One thing I like is disguising the IOF and then hitting down the line as my opponent is expecting it cross-court. Can't do it too often though or they wise up to it. It's fun, hitting behind an opponent. Just have to hit hard enough for it to pass them.

wihamilton
07-08-2009, 01:05 PM
Hey Ross -- IO forehands are almost always hit with an open stance (unless you're running around a short ball).

cxw0106
07-08-2009, 01:06 PM
Right. This is definitely an area I really want to focus in on and master. In the past I've sometimes had a wicked inside out fh. However, it hasn't been something I've thought about particularly or been so conscious about technique-wise, thus the inconsistency. And now, presently my most common issue is - and this is despite trying to hit the ball more on its left-hand side to create more angle - the ball is going more centrally than I'm intending, ie I'm not finding that diagonal angle. And there might well be other issues too I'm not really aware of?...

So... top tips folks?... I really want to work and develop my inside out fh into a major ARod-like weapon!


Oh... BTW... came across these 2 earlier:

1. Hit with a very linear motion (like at the start your arm-pit is kind of closed more and your hitting arm isn't so far apart from body) and hit straight through the ball.

2. Close your stance up (at least be in neutral stance to the ball.)

Any more informed advice though?

Thanks

R.


1. Footwork!!! Assuming you're right handed. You got to move around quickly to the left of the coming ball. If you're late, you will be choked.

2. If you want to aim the sideline or hit wider angle winners, you got to close your racquet face more in order to hit low arc dipping winners. Just like hitting a dipping passing shot.

mordecai
07-08-2009, 04:43 PM
Off the split step, make a drastic unit turn to your forehand side early. Start backpedalling. Space yourself from the ball so that you can incorporate your takeback into a step backward with your left foot. At this point you have to have given yourself enough space to hit the ball when it is nearly past your body. Giving yourself room is essential to finding the right contact point.

The best advice I can give would be to watch slow-mos of your favorite pro hitting the shot, then shadow the stroke including the footwork leading to it.

Ross K
07-08-2009, 09:31 PM
Thanks everyone.

So I'm going to aim more for the corner and not the sidelines (or if I do go sidelines then I close rack/face up a bit to hit low arcing dippers)... forget about closing stance up (though I can think about hitting 'squarer' to the ball)... move quickly to the left of incoming ball (footwork! footwork! footwork!)... and I think that's about it.

Any other thoughts though, do post them up.

Cheers

R.

Ross K
07-08-2009, 09:35 PM
Hey Ross -- IO forehands are almost always hit with an open stance (unless you're running around a short ball).

Hi Will,

I'll disregard that advice I read then.

BTW, You guys got anything on your site RE IO fh?

Thanks

R.

Muse
07-08-2009, 10:49 PM
Ahhhh, inside-out forehand, my favorite shot. This is what I'd recommend.

1. Footwork. Because you're hitting a forehand from a spot where you'd usually be hitting a backhand, your footwork needs to be extra good on this shot. Get around in plenty of time so you can set up and hit it solidly.
2. Inside out forehands are the ideal shot to go on the offensive. If you've got enough time to run around and square up for an IO fh, your opponent probably didn't hit a hard, fast ball at you. You have to make them pay by hitting a killer shot that goes for a winner or makes them go on the defensive.
3. Going for he IO fh leaves your forehand side more vulnerable since by running around your backhand, you're giving up more space to the line on your fh side. Not only is this a good reason to hit a strong offensive shot, but hit it cross court to your opponents backhand (I'm right handed and I'm assuming the opponent is right handed as well). If your opponent is gonna hit it to the big gap you've left, make sure he's gotta hit a backhand (generally the weaker side) up the line over the high part of the net to get you.
4. Hit the IO fh just like you would any other fh. None of this closing up your stance nonsense. Your mechanics shouldn't differ from any other powerful forehand you're hitting. Just make sure your feet are good so you can set up like you normally would.

Ross K
07-09-2009, 02:24 AM
Ahhhh, inside-out forehand, my favorite shot. This is what I'd recommend.

1. Footwork. Because you're hitting a forehand from a spot where you'd usually be hitting a backhand, your footwork needs to be extra good on this shot. Get around in plenty of time so you can set up and hit it solidly.
2. Inside out forehands are the ideal shot to go on the offensive. If you've got enough time to run around and square up for an IO fh, your opponent probably didn't hit a hard, fast ball at you. You have to make them pay by hitting a killer shot that goes for a winner or makes them go on the defensive.
3. Going for he IO fh leaves your forehand side more vulnerable since by running around your backhand, you're giving up more space to the line on your fh side. Not only is this a good reason to hit a strong offensive shot, but hit it cross court to your opponents backhand (I'm right handed and I'm assuming the opponent is right handed as well). If your opponent is gonna hit it to the big gap you've left, make sure he's gotta hit a backhand (generally the weaker side) up the line over the high part of the net to get you.
4. Hit the IO fh just like you would any other fh. None of this closing up your stance nonsense. Your mechanics shouldn't differ from any other powerful forehand you're hitting. Just make sure your feet are good so you can set up like you normally would.

Sounds like v/good advice. Cheers - R.

wihamilton
07-09-2009, 05:03 AM
Hi Will,

I'll disregard that advice I read then.

BTW, You guys got anything on your site RE IO fh?

Thanks

R.

Not at the moment unfortunately =/

Power Player
07-09-2009, 06:20 AM
Here is a drill that can help you turn the ball.

Assuming you are a righty (Sorry WillHamilton..;) )Have your partner stand in the left corner and you stand in the right. what you want to do is practice your crosscourt rally. Hit about 3-5 balls to him in that corner. Then for your last shot, you want to hit to the opposite third of the court for a clean winner. I would aim between the service hash and the right line..so don't try and go down the line, because it is unneccessary.

Once you can do this consistently,you will notice your ball control will be much better during a rally. You will also be learning ways to set up winners.

I would then do this drill:

Start on the left side, and go down the line to your opponent. hit 3 balls down the line, then hit the last as an inside out forehand.

wihamilton
07-09-2009, 06:27 AM
Assuming you are a righty (Sorry WillHamilton..;)

!!!!

10 char

btangel
07-09-2009, 11:44 AM
I've been working on this shot with my coach actually.

These are the tips I'm given.

1. Really gotta STEP around the ball and don't let the ball get close to your body. Rotating your body and keeping that left hand out there really helps.

2. open or closed stance, you need to line up your shoulders to the opposite corner and bend your knee and load up. This is actually the part I found most uncomfortable at first. It takes some getting use to to setup and load up for this shot.

3. It's not about hitting the ball "late" which is what a lot of people tend to do more, because you lose all kinds of power which defeats the purpose of running around to hit a FH to begin with.

4. Federer and Gonzalez are the perfect IO FH models to look at.

Ross K
07-09-2009, 12:12 PM
PP, Will, bt,

Thanks guys.

BTW bt, you're the 1st to mention lining up shoulders to opposite corner... interesting... if possible though could you expand or explain further RE not allowing the ball to get to close to your body. Cheers - R.

btangel
07-09-2009, 12:44 PM
hmm one thing about the open stance forehand is that, a lot of people don't rotate their shoulders enough to "line up". This is pretty general advice for just about any FH shot you're trying to hit and not specifically for an IO fFH.

Prior to contact, regardless whether you're hitting open/closed you're always rotating your torso and lining up your left shoulder (given that you're right handed) towards the general direction where you're planning to hit to ball. One thing that coaches often do is to tell their students to point their left hand at the ideal contact point instead of having it lazily hang around because that naturally induces the shoulder rotation.

This applies to basically any FH you hit, but it's especially important in hitting IO because you need to really step around the ball and get in position early to setup for that shot. It's not the kind of shot you'll be able to hit effectively hurried. Chances are, if you're not really damn good you're going to end up hitting the ball late and weak which gives your opponent an opening on the open court.

Down the line and cross court you can sorta get away with lazy technique, but not IO. IO you're really trying going for the shot and either making it a winner or inducing a weak return for a forehand winner to the open court.

It's a very classic one two punch perfectly demonstrated by Fed and Gonzalez. If you watch those guys they get in position early and load up real good and just unload it. Often times it's the hardest shot they hit in an entire rally.

Power Player
07-10-2009, 05:16 AM
My I/O was ripping pretty well last night. I could call winners sometimes because it just felt good off the stick. What I remember is that my swing path may have been a little more up and down instead of diagonal when I went for those shots. Make sure the racquet is back and prepared early, this allows you to really get all your weight behind it too.

NamRanger
07-10-2009, 08:01 AM
One thing most people don't realize is that when they hit the inside out forehand, they forget to go from more low to up. Since you aren't going down the line, your ball is traveling a farther distance. So if you don't put a little bit of air underneath it, your ball is going to be short.

Kevo
07-11-2009, 01:49 PM
PP, Will, bt,

Thanks guys.

BTW bt, you're the 1st to mention lining up shoulders to opposite corner... interesting... if possible though could you expand or explain further RE not allowing the ball to get to close to your body. Cheers - R.

Not the first in this thread, at the least, the third, but who's counting. I guess some of us need to work on our prose, or maybe make more liberal use of BOLD. ;-)

boojay
07-11-2009, 01:55 PM
S'all about the racquet face. I have a hitting partner who also does it the old fashioned way, by hitting it late. The only problem is, he has no idea where he's hitting the ball half the time.