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View Full Version : Threatenned to be banned from USTA for a year?


FedererExpress
07-08-2009, 08:18 PM
Hi all, I'm playing in a 3.5 team league. The setup is 2 singles/3 doubles requiring 8 players on a team. We recently signed up to play in a Sectional Qualifier; however, recently 2 of our players dropped out. So now I was told that if we play, we automatically forfeit 1 doubles match.

The tournament is a 6 hour drive away, and honestly myself and a few other players are questioning whether it is worth the drive. We have all paid our tournament fees and everything; and when bringing up the idea of just scraping the tournament, we were "warned" by some of the local coordinators that we would be "banned" from any usta related tournament for 1 year since we would be backing out of this tournament.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this, or whether this is true.

Any help would be great. Thanks

Steady Eddy
07-08-2009, 09:07 PM
I'd fall on my knees and say "Please don't ban me from the USTA. Please don't. DON'T!! I beg you." Who could endure being without a USTA membership for an entire year?

P.S. Would they take away the magazine subscription too?

Grover Sparkman
07-09-2009, 04:22 AM
I'd fall on my knees and say "Please don't ban me from the USTA. Please don't. DON'T!! I beg you." Who could endure being without a USTA membership for an entire year?

P.S. Would they take away the magazine subscription too?

Nooooo, not Tennis magazine!

I was in a tournament a few months ago, and I showed up for my second match and they told me the wrong time. Fine, I waited around until the time they told me, which was about two hours. No big deal. Well I went back two hours later and they told me that I was wrong and misunderstood then. Then they told me I' d have to come back at 5:30 pm. I told the girl I was pulling out (heh) and wouldn't be back and she said "that's not an option."

5:30 rolls around and I just didn't show up. I'm still playing in leagues, although I see that girl on occasion at local USTA gatherings and she gives me the stink-eye.

Topaz
07-09-2009, 04:32 AM
Hi all, I'm playing in a 3.5 team league. The setup is 2 singles/3 doubles requiring 8 players on a team. We recently signed up to play in a Sectional Qualifier; however, recently 2 of our players dropped out. So now I was told that if we play, we automatically forfeit 1 doubles match.

The tournament is a 6 hour drive away, and honestly myself and a few other players are questioning whether it is worth the drive. We have all paid our tournament fees and everything; and when bringing up the idea of just scraping the tournament, we were "warned" by some of the local coordinators that we would be "banned" from any usta related tournament for 1 year since we would be backing out of this tournament.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this, or whether this is true.

Any help would be great. Thanks

This is what your coordinators said? Did you explain that you were short people...because, unfortunately, that is a common happening when it comes time to travel for post-season play.

That being said, you can still win a team match while defaulting #3 doubles every match.

It may be too late for your team not to go, because it would not give the next team in line enough time to organize to go.

Bottom line, you need to be talking (more, even if you've already talked to them once) about your coordinators about this. We can't really help you much here. You should be able to look up your regional (and national)USTA league rules online.

raiden031
07-09-2009, 04:34 AM
I don't know the exact rules, but I know at least at Nationals you can get banned from usta for not showing up, or for showing up with less than 8 players on your roster. I'm sure it might apply at Sectionals as well, given that some people have to travel hundreds of mile to get to the event.

The whole intention is to not have people spend alot of time and money to travel to these events, only to be ripped off because their opponents forfeit and they don't get to play.

RedWeb
07-09-2009, 04:35 AM
In my area (North Texas) if people lost their USTA membership for not showing up for matches (especially in tournaments) the USTA would be about 1/3-1/2 smaller than it is now.

We even have "legendary" players who must miss matches if they only have a hang nail because they rarely show up (but they sign up for almost everything) and they NEVER play in the back draws.

You have nothing to worry about, make the decision thats best for you.

I bet there are a number of teams that would take your place in a heart beat. That certainly would be the case here.

raiden031
07-09-2009, 04:38 AM
In my area (North Texas) if people lost their USTA membership for not showing up for matches (especially in tournaments) the USTA would be about 1/3-1/2 smaller than it is now.

We even have "legendary" players who must miss matches if they only have a hang nail because they rarely show up (but they sign up for almost everything) and they NEVER play in the back draws.

You have nothing to worry about, make the decision thats best for you.

I bet there are a number of teams that would take your place in a heart beat. That certainly would be the case here.

If playing usta is a priority, maybe they should consider attending. This is not some joe schmoe tournament, this is sectionals which qualifies them for the usta league National championships, and is taken seriously by the usta.

FedererExpress
07-09-2009, 04:41 AM
This is actually a qualifier to get into sectionals... if that makes any difference. So pretty small tourney.

Thanks again for all the help

JavierLW
07-09-2009, 05:09 AM
This is actually a qualifier to get into sectionals... if that makes any difference. So pretty small tourney.

Thanks again for all the help

Whether it's a small tourney or not should make no difference.

They've spent a lot of time and effort getting that together and the other players are taking their time out of their day (and possibly expenses if they've had to travel) to show up and play.

It's just a self centered move to decide at the last minute that your entire team doesnt feel like showing up.

If you have a short team, that's definitely better then robbing 8 other people of their time because they all wont get to play a match when it's their time to play you. (you only have 8 players on your team total???)

That's why you can get banned, it's precisely for this attitude that some people have that if it's suddenly not very important to them they may not show up. (or in Grover's case he just quit because he got frustrated, sure maybe it's not his fault but he's still just thinking of himself and you have to wonder how important playing tennis was)

Part of playing tennis is you should have some respect for your opponents, not showing up is not respectful at all.

As far as North Texas, sure there may be areas where "everyone does this", but that should be avoided.

I was in a indoor USTA metro league this winter and teams were short players almost on a weekly basis, and that league sucked! People paid $43 and half the time they didnt even get to play anyone. If they wanted to avoid having a sucky league, they would have to step in and do something to teams that are constantly short players.

(and keep in mind that unlike raiden, I dont feel that any of these tournaments are a "not a joe schmoe tournament", I mean they are not televised or anything, but that doesnt mean it's okay to sign up and then wimp out at the last minute, it still takes a lot of effort to put together)

schap02
07-09-2009, 05:20 AM
Some people simply have NOTHING else is their lives to live for.
Tennis is their only option.
Maybe they got picked last in gym class in 4th grade or whatever...
Bottom line is, if you forfeit your matches the team your playing will benefit.
It is what it is.

Once again, important point here, some people just take life and "rules" too far, all this political BS is a pain.

raiden031
07-09-2009, 05:47 AM
This is actually a qualifier to get into sectionals... if that makes any difference. So pretty small tourney.

Thanks again for all the help

I'm confused as to what is a 'sectional qualifier'. Did you play at districts?

raiden031
07-09-2009, 05:49 AM
Some people simply have NOTHING else is their lives to live for.
Tennis is their only option.
Maybe they got picked last in gym class in 4th grade or whatever...
Bottom line is, if you forfeit your matches the team your playing will benefit.
It is what it is.

Once again, important point here, some people just take life and "rules" too far, all this political BS is a pain.

So if you spent $1000 and 3 days of your time to play in a tournament, you would prefer that your opponents forfeit so that you win the title by default? I think not.

RedWeb
07-09-2009, 05:59 AM
If playing usta is a priority, maybe they should consider attending. This is not some joe schmoe tournament, this is sectionals which qualifies them for the usta league National championships, and is taken seriously by the usta.

Based upon his OP I was not under the impression that what he was talking about was the actual Sectionals tournament that we'd normally be talking about. I was thinking it was some other type of tournament. Hard to believe a team with only 8 players would make it to sectionals (guess they might only have 8 eligible players, if so thats poor captaining).

Also, my earlier post should not be interpeted as me approving of people who drop out of tournaments, matches, etc. I hate people who do that. Don't bother going at all if that is your attitude. His query was whether or not he'll be punished for not going. My experience has been that he won't be. Personally, I'd prefer that people who have a record of "dropping out" be given some type of sanction. But I can see where that is next to impossible as people can have legit excuses (work, illness, etc.). But if a guy drops out of every back draw, and 1/2 the tournaments he enters, for the last year then that is pure BS.

JavierLW
07-09-2009, 06:04 AM
Some people simply have NOTHING else is their lives to live for.
Tennis is their only option.
Maybe they got picked last in gym class in 4th grade or whatever...
Bottom line is, if you forfeit your matches the team your playing will benefit.
It is what it is.

Once again, important point here, some people just take life and "rules" too far, all this political BS is a pain.

Give me a break, if you have that sort of attitude, dont ever sign up for a tennis tournament.

The point is whether YOU think it's important or not, those players choose to spend the weekend playing tennis. They could of done something else but instead they thought it would be fun to play in the tournament.

Nobody wants to win by forfeit, that's not why they are there. They are there because they want to play.

Not showing up disrespectful of their time, and it makes it seem that you think your time is far more important then theirs.

The problem is there are a bunch of wishy washy weenies out there who cant decide for themselves what they really want to do. If you didnt want to play in the tournament then either dont sign up, or make that clear ahead of time.

It's called being responsible for yourself and how you respect others, it has nothing to do with "just following the rules". Unfortunately that seems to escape some certain self centered people.

Dont drop out at the last minute just because it seems unfavorable to you, that has nothing to do with the rules, it's just a major loser move on your part.

Perry the Platypus
07-09-2009, 06:04 AM
To the OP:

Something somewhat similar happened here a few years back. A team that won districts proceeded on to win states. However at states this team had their 2 best players DQed. This team relied 100% on those two winning singles and then getting 1 doubles line, so when the singles guys got dqed they had no shot. SOOOO they backed out of sectionals and the team that finished 2nd in districts took their place. Nobody was banned for one year as a result.

I think that if you can work with your local/state/section coordinators to ensure that someone represents your area at districts then you will be fine. If you do not do that and you team actually is on the draw at districts and proceeds to default 5 lines in all of you matches then you may have a spot of bother.

Just my two cents.....

RedWeb
07-09-2009, 06:13 AM
Give me a break, if you have that sort of attitude, dont ever sign up for a tennis tournament.

The point is whether YOU think it's important or not, those players choose to spend the weekend playing tennis. They could of done something else but instead they thought it would be fun to play in the tournament.

Nobody wants to win by forfeit, that's not why they are there. They are there because they want to play.

Not showing up disrespectful of their time, and it makes it seem that you think your time is far more important then theirs.

The problem is there are a bunch of wishy washy weenies out there who cant decide for themselves what they really want to do. If you didnt want to play in the tournament then either dont sign up, or make that clear ahead of time.

It's called being responsible for yourself and how you respect others, it has nothing to do with "just following the rules". Unfortunately that seems to escape some certain self centered people.

Dont drop out at the last minute just because it seems unfavorable to you, that has nothing to do with the rules, it's just a major loser move on your part.

Here! Here! Well said.

JavierLW
07-09-2009, 06:20 AM
To the OP:

Something somewhat similar happened here a few years back. A team that won districts proceeded on to win states. However at states this team had their 2 best players DQed. This team relied 100% on those two winning singles and then getting 1 doubles line, so when the singles guys got dqed they had no shot. SOOOO they backed out of sectionals and the team that finished 2nd in districts took their place. Nobody was banned for one year as a result.

I think that if you can work with your local/state/section coordinators to ensure that someone represents your area at districts then you will be fine. If you do not do that and you team actually is on the draw at districts and proceeds to default 5 lines in all of you matches then you may have a spot of bother.

Just my two cents.....

It depends on the timing probably.

Most sectionals cost money for the team to play in them. In our section our state picks up the cost so we were told that at our district (state) finals we had to sign a form stating that we would indeed go on to sectionals if we win. If we declare we cant make it then the 2nd place team can go.

But at some point if it gets close it's too late. Someone who is more responsible will figure that out ahead of time, and if they cant they'll just show up with who they have, rather then disrespect everyone else's time.

That's the weird thing about this. It's hard to believe the OP only has 8 players on their roster, if they do then that's pretty bad.

In a lot of cases it's not because they are missing 2 people, it's exactly like your example. They are missing their two best players and they dont think they have a shot so now they are going to quit because "they cant win".

Apparently they dont really enjoy playing tennis then, they only enjoy it when they can win. That's a "loser" attitude to have.

raiden031
07-09-2009, 06:22 AM
To the OP:

Something somewhat similar happened here a few years back. A team that won districts proceeded on to win states. However at states this team had their 2 best players DQed. This team relied 100% on those two winning singles and then getting 1 doubles line, so when the singles guys got dqed they had no shot. SOOOO they backed out of sectionals and the team that finished 2nd in districts took their place. Nobody was banned for one year as a result.

I think that if you can work with your local/state/section coordinators to ensure that someone represents your area at districts then you will be fine. If you do not do that and you team actually is on the draw at districts and proceeds to default 5 lines in all of you matches then you may have a spot of bother.

Just my two cents.....

Timing is everything. I am not a captain so I don't know what happens behind the scenes, but I'm guessing every captain that wins districts must then commit their team to sectionals, otherwise the 2nd place team goes in their place. Their is probably a deadline where its too late to swap another team, so that is where you better be sure you're attending.

If you then back out without a good reason, you deserve to be banned because players who travel to matches could be throwing money away due to opponents not showing up.


Based upon his OP I was not under the impression that what he was talking about was the actual Sectionals tournament that we'd normally be talking about. I was thinking it was some other type of tournament. Hard to believe a team with only 8 players would make it to sectionals (guess they might only have 8 eligible players, if so thats poor captaining).

Also, my earlier post should not be interpeted as me approving of people who drop out of tournaments, matches, etc. I hate people who do that. Don't bother going at all if that is your attitude. His query was whether or not he'll be punished for not going. My experience has been that he won't be. Personally, I'd prefer that people who have a record of "dropping out" be given some type of sanction. But I can see where that is next to impossible as people can have legit excuses (work, illness, etc.). But if a guy drops out of every back draw, and 1/2 the tournaments he enters, for the last year then that is pure BS.

I have never heard of a 'sectional qualifier' tournament that would have the usta team league format. I mean does this feed into sectionals and nationals or is this something that goes nowhere?

As far as I know it goes like this:

local league
playoffs (depending on the area)
districts
sectionals
nationals

I still think at sectionals and especially nationals, players should be sanctioned for violating these attendance rules even if its not habitual because it is too costly for players that do show up. There must be incentive for players to put their best effort into showing up. If a ban from usta competition is the punishment, so be it.

Atown
07-09-2009, 06:29 AM
I have never heard of a 'sectional qualifier' tournament that would have the usta team league format. I mean does this feed into sectionals and nationals or is this something that goes nowhere?


Neither have I, but my guess (and it may be wrong) is that it's Districts or the equivalent thereof.

RedWeb
07-09-2009, 06:30 AM
So OP? Is this the actual sectional tournament we're talking about (as referenced by numerous posters to this thread)?

RedWeb
07-09-2009, 06:31 AM
Neither have I, but my guess (and it may be wrong) is that it's Districts or the equivalent thereof.

Someone needs a new captain.

P.S. 500!

Atown
07-09-2009, 06:33 AM
Someone needs a new captain.

P.S. 500!

???

10 chars

RedWeb
07-09-2009, 06:38 AM
???

10 chars

I was thinking that your captain should do a better job of informing his team of exactly what type of matches and schedule you have. While, I've only been at this 3 years (playing on USTA teams for 2) its hard to imagine that everyone on the team does not know (thanks to the captain) what the ramifications of matches and the reason for having them are. Perhaps I've only had good captains.

The P.S. 500 was my mini-celebration of it being my 500th post on the TW forum.

Atown
07-09-2009, 06:39 AM
I was thinking that your captain should do a better job of informing his team of exactly what type of matches and schedule you have. While, I've only been at this 3 years (playing on USTA teams for 2) its hard to imagine that everyone on the team does not know (thanks to the captain) what the ramifications of matches and the reason for having them are. Perhaps I've only had good captains.

I'm not the OP.

RedWeb
07-09-2009, 06:40 AM
Doh! My bad. Meant no offense in either case. I was drunk due to my celebration.

Topaz
07-09-2009, 06:54 AM
As far as I know it goes like this:

local league
playoffs (depending on the area)
districts
sectionals
nationals



Depends on area Raiden. DC goes straight from local league (no playoffs) to sectionals. NOVA teams have to go through h*ll at playoffs, then districts, then sectionals. Two very different routes that both end up at sectionals.

My outdoor team that I'm headed to districts with (in just a few hours) just had to win their league. A very *small* league.

So, I think there is more variance than you might guess.

JavierLW
07-09-2009, 07:11 AM
Depends on area Raiden. DC goes straight from local league (no playoffs) to sectionals. NOVA teams have to go through h*ll at playoffs, then districts, then sectionals. Two very different routes that both end up at sectionals.

My outdoor team that I'm headed to districts with (in just a few hours) just had to win their league. A very *small* league.

So, I think there is more variance than you might guess.

Not to mention that in some areas, district = state, so you can say you're the state champions if you make it to sectionals, and in some areas, the whole entire section is in just part of a state (SoCal, NoCal).

beernutz
07-09-2009, 07:29 AM
Nooooo, not Tennis magazine!

I was in a tournament a few months ago, and I showed up for my second match and they told me the wrong time. Fine, I waited around until the time they told me, which was about two hours. No big deal. Well I went back two hours later and they told me that I was wrong and misunderstood then. Then they told me I' d have to come back at 5:30 pm. I told the girl I was pulling out (heh) and wouldn't be back and she said "that's not an option."

5:30 rolls around and I just didn't show up. I'm still playing in leagues, although I see that girl on occasion at local USTA gatherings and she gives me the stink-eye.

This surely was the spot for some kind of super smarty-pants response, no? What a missed opportunity...

Perry the Platypus
07-09-2009, 10:00 AM
To JavierLW -

Agreed 100% - sadly there are some folks like that out there...... For those of us who have been, we know that sectionals is a blast win or lose!

Kostas
07-09-2009, 10:23 AM
Yeah I still don't understand what type of tournament this is.

I'm in Southern/MS and we play local leagues, then go to state (districts?) then to sectionals. I've never heard of a tournament to qualify for sectionals. I was under the impression that it was simply the winner(s) of the state tournaments.

If it's a tournament like most other USTA tournies can't you find two more players on short notice?

I know more than a handful of tennis junkies that would jump at the chance for something like this on a day's notice.

FedererExpress
07-09-2009, 10:35 AM
Wow, thanks for all the replies... So I guess I should add more detail into it.

From the posts that I have read, I assume it is Districts tournament. I was told whoever won this tournament would then play in a sectional tournament. The coordinator always referred to it as a Sectional Qualifier. As for having only 8 players.... yes.... our team is pretty bad..... We had enough difficulty finding 8 players as is. We had to even bump up 2 3.0 players to make the roster.

I guess I'm just extremely frustrated in part that, I have a conference I needed to be at the Monday of the tournament (12 hours away, yes I am driving). So basically I'm driving 6 hours to the tournament, then 12 hours to conference (yes I know poor planning on my behalf). I let my team know a month ahead of the tournament, immediately when I found out about the conference to try to get a sub so I didn't have to go. Basically none was found, and I agreed to play.

Fast forward 3 weeks, and 1 week before the tournament, 2 of our players dropped out for what I consider "questionable reasons." Again, I guess I'm just questioning whether it is worth our/my time to drive 6 hours one way, to not get a fair chance at winning, and then drive 12 hours the opposite direction the next day. If I didn't go to the tournament, it would be only a 6 hour drive to the conference. If we had all 8 players, I wouldn't mind it at all, but it's the fact that we don't even get a fair chance...

Perhaps I am just complaining too much ha.... I appreciate all the feedback/opinions. THanks


PS. Yes we did try to find 2 more players with no success....

JavierLW
07-09-2009, 10:48 AM
Wow, thanks for all the replies... So I guess I should add more detail into it.

From the posts that I have read, I assume it is Districts tournament. I was told whoever won this tournament would then play in a sectional tournament. The coordinator always referred to it as a Sectional Qualifier. As for having only 8 players.... yes.... our team is pretty bad..... We had enough difficulty finding 8 players as is. We had to even bump up 2 3.0 players to make the roster.

I guess I'm just extremely frustrated in part that, I have a conference I needed to be at the Monday of the tournament (12 hours away, yes I am driving). So basically I'm driving 6 hours to the tournament, then 12 hours to conference (yes I know poor planning on my behalf). I let my team know a month ahead of the tournament, immediately when I found out about the conference to try to get a sub so I didn't have to go. Basically none was found, and I agreed to play.

Fast forward 3 weeks, and 1 week before the tournament, 2 of our players dropped out for what I consider "questionable reasons." Again, I guess I'm just questioning whether it is worth our/my time to drive 6 hours one way, to not get a fair chance at winning, and then drive 12 hours the opposite direction the next day. If I didn't go to the tournament, it would be only a 6 hour drive to the conference. If we had all 8 players, I wouldn't mind it at all, but it's the fact that we don't even get a fair chance...

Perhaps I am just complaining too much ha.... I appreciate all the feedback/opinions. THanks

That sounds like bad luck (and somewhat poor planning).

Make sure you give those 2 guys a hard time if they are coming up with a lame excuse at the last minute, I sure would. (really one of the few parts of this being a "team" sport is not having your teammates bail on you when they are needed.....)

I agree with you that it's probably a hassle, but you're in it now so you can either suck it up and play and have some pride for yourself (at least you'll have a story to tell), or you can give up and quit because it looks rough.

That's pretty much the bottom line.

(the fact is some of these playoffs have very daunting logistics period, especially in a district or section that is just plain HUGE in land area. Because of that fact, they have to be strict with this sort of thing otherwise they will have people bailing left and right all the time.)

Scott_Redmond
07-14-2009, 09:15 PM
Did you explain that you were short people...because, unfortunately, that is a common happening when it comes time to travel for post-season play.

I don't think the stature of the team should have anything to do with disqualification (unless of course their height creates a bunch of Napoleonic attitudes on the team. If that's the case, kick 'em out)

Topaz
07-15-2009, 03:06 AM
I don't think the stature of the team should have anything to do with disqualification (unless of course their height creates a bunch of Napoleonic attitudes on the team. If that's the case, kick 'em out)

Ha! Took me a second there....