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View Full Version : Heavier Racquet = Getting better?


Power Player
07-11-2009, 07:50 PM
I have 3 APDCs and love these racquets. My strings are broke on 2, so I pulled out my Tfight335 16x20 strung at 60# to hit with. I have always loved this stick. It is 12.4oz and much heavier then my APDC.

Since I got the APDC, I have been playing 15-20 hours a week and have gotten much better. My forehand is finally a lot more consistent and I can put it anywhere I want. I can hit clean winners off the APDC with a ton of kick from topspin.

So I am hitting with a guy who has played with me a lot and has told me I have a lot of kick on my forehand..more then about anyone else at our club. But I pull out the 335 and start hitting with it. I am killing the ball with this thing, and he says I have even more kick with the 335. We are trying to figure it out. I am swinging for the fences with the 335 and just getting huge and heavy winners on him. It's been months since I have it with it, and I am really liking the stick. It has a full poly job at 60#..kind of tight..I'd probably go to 58# if I restrung, but regardless the babs are hybrids. So my first tweak is to string the Babs at 56# full poly. Maybe that will make a difference.

There is just something about the 335 that makes me wonder if my strokes have evolved and I can handle the weight now. I am going to play with it a lot more and then possibly lead up the Babs. I have no idea how I would go about it though if I decided to do that one day..and I am not sure if it would make a difference.

The 335 is 10 points HL. The SW is 320. The beam is 21mm. I know of no new racquets that are close to this. Maybe the Head Prestige Pro or a Volkl?

I really don't want to switch from the APDC. I will hit with the 335 more and let it work itself out. If I keep ripping it like this though, I may have to buy another one. It is a damn shame they don't make this racquet anymore.

Anyway, to wrap up...I am getting a lot better and hitting with a ton of spin and power from the forehand and backhand. Does weight matter? Will it make a difference or was this in my head?

tribunal4555
07-11-2009, 07:54 PM
Possibly both.

The best thing to use is the heaviest racquet you can comfortably wield. Why? It allows you to crush the ball better by getting more mass behind the ball. Moreover, it will force you to use proper technique on your strokes. It's also probably lower-powered than your APDC's, which would explain the ability to swing for the fences. Once you discovered this, the mental edge you gained- e.g. confidence to take those big cuts- sustained your level of play.

Just my $.02.

Power Player
07-11-2009, 08:57 PM
Yeah.it's a good point. I will keep hitting with it all week and see if it replaces my APDCs...I can't see that happening, but the feel of the 335 is amazing. I guess it is basically the same as the Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 95, since they have very similar stats.

Even though the apdc is lighter, the swing weight is actually more at 324. That is interesting to me. I can easily play with either stick. I guess the 335 's weight just gives me more power like you said. I will see how it goes...I hate to think too much about it. I guess worst case, I buy one more 335 and have a heavy stick combo and a light combo.

Is there any chance that Wilson makes the Prostaff 6.0 95 again? I feel like they should since the basically made the 85 with the PS88. That would truly be awesome.

Oh, and to add..what had made my strokes a lot better is racquet prep. I have have the racquet back now a lot earlier. When I first got the 335, my footwork was crap, and I did not prepare the racquet early enough. Now that I am doing that, I can hit bombs that kick incredibly hard and high.

dacrymn
07-11-2009, 10:22 PM
I would hit some more with it first. I don't know if this happens to you, but alot of the time I hit better with a racket I haven't been playing with/new rackets the first time. Maybe it's the novelty, I don't know. I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet. But who knows, you might be right.

Power Player
07-11-2009, 10:35 PM
I would hit some more with it first. I don't know if this happens to you, but alot of the time I hit better with a racket I haven't been playing with/new rackets the first time. Maybe it's the novelty, I don't know. I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet. But who knows, you might be right.

I agree with this. I will update the thread once I get more hits in.

ckledzepplin
07-11-2009, 10:48 PM
if your looking for something ps 95 like try the k90.

tribunal4555
07-12-2009, 08:19 AM
Except the K90 is smaller and IMO more PS85 like than PS95 like. I think the K95 is a closer fit.

120mphBodyServe
07-12-2009, 08:51 AM
I say ditch the Aeropros...

bad_call
07-12-2009, 10:09 AM
PowerPlayer - play matches with both racquets. maybe then u will know.

Power Player
07-12-2009, 11:20 AM
Yeah..I will do that Bad Call. I actually have not lost with the APDCs yet. I don't have many complaints at all about them to be honest, but I am pretty strong and my technique has improved a fair amount since we hit. I would say I put a lot more powr and placement on the ball then before, but I have been playing SO much for the past 3 months.

I'm going to hit again with the 335 today and see if anything changes.

Ironically, I was using the K90 that was mentioned by a few folks in this thread. I loved that racquet, but I ended up going with the bab to develop my game more and get consistent.

I am intrigued by the k95. I may demo it. The swingweight is quite high though. The magic of the PS95 was that the SW was very low even though the stick weighed 12.3 . This is why I like the 335. I think it is pretty much the same racquet. Kind of a combo of that and the Head Pro tour 630. So if I keep hitting well with the 335 and it's not a honeymoon thing, I will buy another.

120MPHBerve, why do you say to ditch the Aero Pro? Do you just not like the racquets?

Gee
07-12-2009, 01:13 PM
Powerplayer,

I am following your TT-posts for a while and I enjoy reading them. Especially about your experiences with TF335 as I used to play with these ones as well.

I think it is the best volleying stick I ever played with. From the baseline it plays very solid and therefore I hit heavier groundstrokes than other lighter tweener frames. When I hit my forehand cleanly it is a setup for a finishing volley.

Concerning my serves my first flat serve has been improved a lot with TF335. Very precise control and a lot of power due to the extra weight.

I put a Babolat leather grip on it that gives a sensational feel. I can feel the plow through a lot better through this.

I wished I found a racquet like the TF335 twenty years ago. But fortunately I am still very fit at my 43 years so I hope I can still enjoy this beauty for years.

The only downside of this heavy racquet (like all heavier players frames) is that you can't smuggle with your technique so even easy slow balls you need to hit with a proper stroke. But this is not a bad thing. It keeps your technique smoothly.


Funny to read you are switching to your TF335 again. I think it is a real winner that 'll be a classic one like ps95.

Power Player
07-12-2009, 01:36 PM
Gee

I agree about everything you said. I have not made the switch but I am about to go hit more with the 335. What I may do is buy another 335 if I hit real real with this one for a few weeks. I definitley think the 335 is a classic stick. It is too bad TFibre turned the 335 into a tweener. They should have made the tweener a new line and kept the Tfight as it is IMO. The V02 max is also an awesome racquet, but it is a lot different, and more like a Yonex meets APDC hybrid.

mctennis
07-12-2009, 01:53 PM
I agree. Ditch the Aeros. Stay with the heavier racquet.

bad_call
07-12-2009, 03:11 PM
Power Player - let me know when u want to do a play test. need to break some strings here so i can try some more hybrid combos.

Seacoast Stringer
07-12-2009, 03:24 PM
Gee

I agree about everything you said. I have not made the switch but I am about to go hit more with the 335. What I may do is buy another 335 if I hit real real with this one for a few weeks. I definitley think the 335 is a classic stick. It is too bad TFibre turned the 335 into a tweener. They should have made the tweener a new line and kept the Tfight as it is IMO. The V02 max is also an awesome racquet, but it is a lot different, and more like a Yonex meets APDC hybrid.

Yes...IMO it would be like Head ditching the Prestige MP or Wilson getting rid of the K95's. The TFight 335 was Tecnifibre's best frame that I had hit with. Great heft/power/maneuverability combo.

viva la rafa
07-12-2009, 03:46 PM
let me know if u wanna sell your apdc rackets

Power Player
07-13-2009, 05:51 AM
BC, I am down to hit. I have been hitting at azalea a lot. There are good players up here that you would enjoy meeting I bet.

I doubt I'll sell the APDCs anytime soon. I am just throwing in the 335 now and then to see how I like it. I am interested in why people say to ditch the Aeros and stay heavy. I actually got a lot better when I went lighter. I have always wondered why the heavy racquet is supposed to be better. I guess it is easier on the arm, but I don't feel a difference.

I heard Johnny Mac on TV say that a lot of players should go lighter because you get more racquet speed and can do more with the ball. I guess it is all about how you play.

mikeler
07-13-2009, 05:59 AM
I went from a 10 oz frame last summer to a 9.5 oz frame. Yes, way lighter than what you use. I'm pretty sure what I like about the lighter frame is that it is a head light racket, not that it is lighter. I'm pretty strong, so getting the bat speed is not a problem. So now I'm on a mission to get back into the 10 oz plus club with a head light racket. I've been experimenting with strings the last year, now it is time to start looking at the racket a little closer.

Gee
07-13-2009, 06:39 AM
I heard Johnny Mac on TV say that a lot of players should go lighter because you get more racquet speed and can do more with the ball. I guess it is all about how you play.
Yeah... Johnny Mac has always controversial quotes so don't take him not too seriously.
Lately he gave Roger Federer advice to show his emotions more during matches. He is just the best player in history because of his controlled behavior.

Power Player
07-13-2009, 07:21 AM
Well, I was going to sell the 335, but I probably will just keep playing with it when I rally. I am going to drop the tension to 58# and use a multi since I have some laying around for now. People are selling 335's for 70-90 bucks and I think it is worth more then that to be honest. My biggest debate will be if I should buy multiples. I think trying out sticks is a longer process then many people allow. I demod the apdc for weeks even though I loved it instantly.

Mikeler, what racquet do you use? I definitley prefer head light and I don't need a heavy swing weight. The Old Head Master I used as a junior was heavy but the SW was low also. The 335 is one of the few 10 point HL sticks I have seen besides the PS95.

anantak2k
07-13-2009, 07:36 AM
It's really hard to decide on switching rackets when you have played with something for so long. I use the Wilson nBlade and have been using it for a while now since it came out. I hit with an insane amount of topspin on my forehand but my backhand is pretty flat. Recently, I have been hitting with my friends K Six-One 95 16x18. So of course the racket itself is a lot more spin friendly. The people I have been hitting with/ playing matches with think I should just switch to that racket because apparently my forehands have such ridiculous heavy spin with that racket that they have a lot of problem hitting them back. They basically say that my shots have a ton more weight on them. So I think that the heavier rackets give you a lot more weight on your shots and are much harder for your opponents to return than shots that are hit hard but don't have a lot of weight on them.

mikeler
07-13-2009, 07:42 AM
Well, I was going to sell the 335, but I probably will just keep playing with it when I rally. I am going to drop the tension to 58# and use a multi since I have some laying around for now. People are selling 335's for 70-90 bucks and I think it is worth more then that to be honest. My biggest debate will be if I should buy multiples. I think trying out sticks is a longer process then many people allow. I demod the apdc for weeks even though I loved it instantly.

Mikeler, what racquet do you use? I definitley prefer head light and I don't need a heavy swing weight. The Old Head Master I used as a junior was heavy but the SW was low also. The 335 is one of the few 10 point HL sticks I have seen besides the PS95.


I use the El Cheapo Prince O3 Royal. I tried using the Racquet Finder on TW, but it is not working at the moment. After looking on another site, I was surprised to find how few head light rackets are available.

dgoran
07-13-2009, 07:59 AM
Hey PowerPlayer nice to see we are going through the same dilemma gain lol :). I demoed MG Prestige MP from etennis and I loved it. I am going to gradually switch from APDC. I am little bit concerned about 2-3 hrs with mg prestige on the court and my level dropping off but I will get better as I get use to the weight.

I would love to get together and hit with you guys. Where is azalea courts is that Winter park?

Sadow
07-13-2009, 08:03 AM
I think the main reason why heavy rackets are seen to be better for game improvement is that they force you to use a proper full swing in order to hit the ball properly.

With the proper swing mechanics and a heavy racket, you should be able to return nearly any kind of shot with ease no matter how heavy the incoming ball is.

mikeler
07-13-2009, 08:05 AM
Hey PowerPlayer nice to see we are going through the same dilemma gain lol :). I demoed MG Prestige MP from etennis and I loved it. I am going to gradually switch from APDC. I am little bit concerned about 2-3 hrs with mg prestige on the court and my level dropping off but I will get better as I get use to the weight.

I would love to get together and hit with you guys. Where is azalea courts is that Winter park?


http://maps.google.com/maps?safe=strict&ie=UTF8&q=azalea+lane+tennis&near=Orlando,+FL&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,15831091743745480067&ei=2k5bSqLQIY27twf3-8SaCQ&ll=28.589458,-81.358652&spn=0.010438,0.013797&z=16&iwloc=A

Power Player
07-13-2009, 08:07 AM
Dgoran..to get to azalea go further down fairbanks twoards WP and take a right on Denning. You will see it on your left after crossing Orange Ave. Why do you like the prestige more then the apdc? I honestly still love my apdc, I just made this thread to get more opinions on why people swear by the heavy racquet.

I actually improved my game considerably by going to the ligher racquet from my 12.4 oz 335 and K90s. So while I understand what you are saying Sadow, I do not neccessarily agree with that theory. It also matters how you hit the ball. I use more modern strokes and the ww finish I have actually developed on it's own after switching to the apdc. I noticed that got my forehand much more consistent.

dgoran
07-13-2009, 01:46 PM
I've always said (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=186611) there is no question that APDC / Pure Drive etc...will make ANYONE a better player,no matter what (providing that he or she is taking time to adjust to a frame)... but the racket feel is not the best and after really getting some reference points (hitting with k90 and Head frames). and Power issue was a really an issue I have struggled with when using APD(c) and Pure Drive.

I can go up in tension and somewhere in 68-70 is my only option when using these sticks and of course extreme grips on both sides. This definitely gives people on the other side really spiny high-bouncing ball to play against, but if I loose that tension (and I am not pro that can afford to restring before every match)

In comparison to MG Prestige MP my APDC feels hollow, like a toy (and I love my APDC so much that it hurts me to say that lol :))
After some hitting adjustments I feel that I can go lower tension in MG Prestige MP and swing out flatten out the strokes more and not fear of over hitting. If I try flattening the ball with APDC its going through the fenses :)

I miss that APDC extreme spin from time to time playing with MGPMP but MGPMP solid feel is very gratifying that I will let go of extreme spin to gain shot penetration.

Another thing is that I absolutely love HEAD grip shape. Its just natural for me seems like it gives me more feedback when changing grips.

I am not 100% sure yet but 99% is that im going with MGPMP in the next few weeks.

dgoran
07-13-2009, 01:48 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?safe=strict&ie=UTF8&q=azalea+lane+tennis&near=Orlando,+FL&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,15831091743745480067&ei=2k5bSqLQIY27twf3-8SaCQ&ll=28.589458,-81.358652&spn=0.010438,0.013797&z=16&iwloc=A

Thanks for the link I've always called that WinterPark CLay courts in my crazy head (my own nickname)

U guys play on clay or hard?

tribunal4555
07-13-2009, 03:32 PM
Demanding racquets do make you a better player. That's why many of us were started on heavy, 14 oz, 68 sq. in. woodies- they refused to let us relax on our strokes.

mikeler
07-13-2009, 04:42 PM
Thanks for the link I've always called that WinterPark CLay courts in my crazy head (my own nickname)

U guys play on clay or hard?


I am a member down at OTC. They have both clay and hard, but I try and avoid hard courts.

Kick Serve 14
07-13-2009, 05:18 PM
weight shouldn't matter all that much, the rackets that i use are all light, with the max being 11.5 oz. It just depends on the person...

mikeler
07-14-2009, 04:50 AM
weight shouldn't matter all that much, the rackets that i use are all light, with the max being 11.5 oz. It just depends on the person...


You are right, the only weight I'm really concerned about is body weight. That is a constant battle!

Power Player
07-14-2009, 07:12 AM
LOL..yeah, I agree. I don't understand the heavy racquet myth anymore. I started with a woodie and did the Jim Davis coaching clinics when I was a kid. If you are in Orlando, you probably know of this guy. Anyway, they told me immediatley to get rid of it and I started my tennis days at the age of 8 or 9 with a Prince 100 graphite that was significantly lighter.

That being said, I have a plan. I have my Cyberflash strings and Big Ace in that I will put on my apdcs. I am going to restring the 335 with maxim touch for now since it is here and sitting in my house. I will put all the racquets at 57 or 58#s, and I will do an extended "demo" where I switch sticks, rotating in the 335. I usually switch between apdcs anyway since the grips get wet after 40 mins and need to dry out for a bit. I will just use the 335 in place of an apdc. I'll stick to this for a while and see what happens.

I like my situation because I feel like I have 2 awesome racquets. So this will be fun, and should not screw my swing up since these are both baseliner racquets.

Dgoran, you should keep us posted on your Head Prestige experiement. IMO, it takes at least 3 weeks to really know a stick. Also, I think the prestige will soon be stopped for the new Youtek version..so maybe you can get them cheaper soon.

tribunal4555
07-14-2009, 07:25 AM
Keep us updated!

Power Player
07-28-2009, 07:08 AM
OK..interesting update :

I broke the strings on all my apdcs, so I had to grab a demo and break out the 335. The demo I got was a Wilson K95 strung at 55# w/ Kgut. My 335 is at 58# with Maxim Touch.

I started with the 335 and hit pretty well, then switched to the k95. I probably played 3 hours. But I kept going back to the K95. I was having long rallies and hitting very heavy shots. I should have an apdc back to compare accuracy with tonight, but the K95 just seemed insanely accurate.

It made the 335 feel really light, which was funny. I can hit well with all 3 sticks..so the whole process is wild. But one thing about the apdc, if you mishit off the sweet spot, you feel it in a bad way. The K95 gives no feedback, which I like. Another little thing is the handle. The Wilson handle just seems so easy to find your grips with. This is pretty key for me since I switch from western to conti on the fly.

I have really been making a point to prepare early, get a full shoulder turn and keep my eyes on the ball. When I do that with the K95, I am good to go. The other thing I liked was when you get stretched out and have to flick in a shot, it does not sail on you. The apdc is tough to control when it comes to this. Many times those last gasp shots go long with it even though I barely use my wrist.

the best thing to do is keep hitting with this K95 for a week and see how it goes. I will switch between that and the apdc. The whole process is tough because I can hit well with any of these racquets. The appeal of the K95 is I feel that I may be more precise and hit a heavier ball. This could all be in my head, but I don't know. The 335 is also very accurate but not as stable as the K95. I will just have to play. I should have an APDC back strung up with Big Ace at 57 to switch in tonight.

klementine
07-28-2009, 08:50 AM
Interesting update Power Player.... Thanks.

I'm assuming that your stroke mechanics are sound, as you say, you have no problem in playing well with either of the three sticks.

If I may throw in a concept-- feel free to agree or disagree and reply if you can--

Alot, imo 99%, of tennis is mental-- do you believe that your personal expectations for a certain racquet were lessened every time you decided to hit with a 'new' frame?

Do you believe that these lower expectations led you to be more comfortable and loosen up and take more chances with the ball?

I know for me, this is the case, that is why I keep my LM Radical Mid+ in my bag (stock with a leather grip and OG), when I want to just swing all out and have no expectations involved with how a certain racquet 'should' perform ( a strange and moronic concept ), I'll hit around with the LMRadMid+, and the next time I pick up my main sticks-- I keep some of that residual feeling of risk taking vs. confidence to take more chances with the ball.

But I guess that's what seperates us from the pros-- assuming that mechanics and footwork are constants-- the variable would be the mental issue- risk taking, confidence, ability to adapt, focus.. etc. etc.

Power Player
07-28-2009, 08:58 AM
Klementine, yeah my strokes are more sound now. I have 4.5 and 5.0 guys watching me and calling me out if I am messing up, so I have really grooved in my strokes to where I am a far better player then even 3 months ago.

This could be mental, but I am not sure. The K95 I was not even excited about. I didn't want to use it. I wanted to hit with my apdcs. So it was a pleasant surprise for me.

I always play loose and take chances actually. So nothing new. I hit hard and all out, but I do use strategy and set up winners, not just try for them every hit. Basically, I have my baseline game to where once I set up a hard corner shot where the opponent has to lunge and make a weak return, im at the net for the finish.

All I notice is that I seem to get more precise shots so far with the K95. But everytime somoene tries out a new stick they get into it, so I am going to take my time. I know I would switch from the APDC if I could be more consistent then I am with it, and more accurate. Those are 2 things that I was for one night with the K95, but today is a new day.

klementine
07-28-2009, 09:09 AM
Have you tried 'weighting' up your APDC's? Maybe it's just the extra static and swing weight that attract you to the other racquets.

I would take one APDC and experiment with it... lead at different positions, leather grips, maybe even silicone in the handle.

But great stuff, I love hearing first hand accounts of people that aren't afraid to try something new.

It took me many demo's, purchases, exchanges and sales to find my comprise in a racquet... But I still love to demo and swing other peoples' sticks or creations.

Power Player
07-28-2009, 10:19 AM
I like my sticks stock for the most part but I could 3 and 9 the apdc. The thing is that I prefer the lightness of it. I will never sell my APDCs even if I actually do switch. I think they are incredible as a light stick. For a heavy stick, I would go with a ProStaff style racquet..like my 335 or this K95.

I do have leather grips on them though. It's nice. I am just seeing my game prgress pretty fast because I play so much and was an avid player until I was 14. So a once demanding stick like a K95 now works with my game and has me debating what I want to do. I will take my time with it.

Power Player
07-31-2009, 06:38 AM
My K95 experiment is coming to an end. I love Wilson sticks, but I went back to my APDC and I really love that swing weight. I think my style of play is just more suited to an 11oz stick when all is said and done.

I loved the control of the Wilson though and the grip. It is a lot better then the APDC at those 2 things. I really am intrigued by 2 other Wilson K racquets, the KPro Tour and the Kblade.

I see the KPro Tour is 89.99, does that mean it is being discontinued? The last thing I want is to get into a racquet that is not being made anymore.

Is the Kblade good for accuracy and a heavy topspin player? I can hit the ball really hard, but I want to retain the topspin I get from the APDC.

Another thing about the APDC that bugs me is I can not touch lob at all..it always goes way out even if I just flick my wrist. The wilsons seems to give me better control all around.

120mphBodyServe
07-31-2009, 02:21 PM
120MPHBerve, why do you say to ditch the Aero Pro? Do you just not like the racquets?

Sorry for losing track of this thread...
Correct me if I'm wrong, I've never hit with a Babolat, but I've heard from someone here that the Aeropro isnt really a great racquet as far as feel is concerned... plus the funky beam design makes it hard to apply lead tape...
From the sounds of things from reading this thread, sounds like you're having a ball with the TF 335. Pity they're not making that frame anymore..
I was eyeing it back when it was still on sale...
See if you can get a few more 2nd hand or find another TF frame to switch to.. I think this is your path.. Since Wilson's quality control is garbage....
I wish you well on your racquet journey and shall look forward to you replying to what I've stated.

Power Player
08-04-2009, 05:43 AM
Sorry for losing track of this thread...
Correct me if I'm wrong, I've never hit with a Babolat, but I've heard from someone here that the Aeropro isnt really a great racquet as far as feel is concerned... plus the funky beam design makes it hard to apply lead tape...


See this is what happens on this site. People just say stuff "they heard". I'm not trying to pick on you, but this is how people can get bad info.

The Aeropro is not the best for feel by any means, but it is a premiere racquet. There is no doubt that the Babolats are made for people w/ modern strokes (ie, me). The APDC does not have as much control as the 335, but it allows to you get prepared really fast against 5.0 and up baseline players.
I like the 335 a lot, but I prefer a 11 oz racquet still. I am messing with the Kpro Open and then an Aerostorm 2008. I would like a little more control, and less power so the Aerostorm may be what I want. I will see. I am not sure if heavy racquets means I am getting better anymore though. I think you groove your swingstyle a certian way and it is condusive to weight. I know Roddick's racquet is still real light from reading about people who have held his exact stick built to his specs.