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View Full Version : What do you think of these guys?


[ GTR ]
07-13-2009, 07:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlxW7_WBQOw&feature=channel

Djokovicfan4life
07-13-2009, 07:31 AM
Well, they're pros, so I'd say they're pretty good. Just a hunch though.

LeeD
07-13-2009, 07:48 AM
They're good 5-5.5 players. Would get killed in Q's and early rounds, but they won't get there.
Both solid players, both can beat 95% of us here on the forums, including me, of course.
Both lacking consistency, both seem to move during/after the stroke not balanced, but good players.
Nice service placments, nice angles, good Div1 college level.

[ GTR ]
07-13-2009, 08:06 AM
Umm.. LeeD, Sadik Kadir's

Career Highlights

Highest ranking singles 415 Oct 2004
Highest ranking doubles 288 Jun 2005

And he has played ATP events...

ramseszerg
07-13-2009, 08:16 AM
They're good 5-5.5 players. Would get killed in Q's and early rounds, but they won't get there.
Both solid players, both can beat 95% of us here on the forums, including me, of course.
Both lacking consistency, both seem to move during/after the stroke not balanced, but good players.
Nice service placments, nice angles, good Div1 college level.

This is way above division 1 level.. Can't you read it says Challenger in the description. Can't you see how hard they are hitting. These are no 5.5's.

SourStraws
07-13-2009, 08:21 AM
Lee just gave his opinion....Chill

They're pretty good...But I pretty much agree with what Lee said lol...

S.S.

10nistennis
07-13-2009, 08:48 AM
Probably 5.5-6.0

WildVolley
07-13-2009, 09:07 AM
LeeD always under rates by about a point, so I'd say 6.5s.

SuperJimmy
07-13-2009, 09:30 AM
;3687034']Umm.. LeeD, Sadik Kadir's

Career Highlights

Highest ranking singles 415 Oct 2004
Highest ranking doubles 288 Jun 2005

And he has played ATP events...

Not to mention his opponent Tsung-Hua Yang was the 2008 ranked #1 Junior player in the world...2008 Junior US Open Semi-finalist, 2008 Junior French Open Champion, 2008 Junior Wimbledon doubles Champion, and 2008 Junior Australian Open Finalist and doubles Champion.

4.5 at best, 4.0 in Cali. :twisted:

zapvor
07-13-2009, 01:24 PM
lol. you guys are crazy. the kids a 3.5 at best.

boojay
07-13-2009, 01:59 PM
Lovin' the vid! Gives us a better perspective of the pro pace and spin.\

BTW, anyone who rates these guys below 7.0 (i.e. non-pro) needs to share whatever it is he's smoking.

btangel
07-13-2009, 02:03 PM
Yang Tsung Hua was the #1 ranked junior last year... his results as a junior rival that of Tomic Bernard. These guys are pros man...

BU-Tennis
07-13-2009, 02:43 PM
I think what throws some viewers off is the fact that they're not thumping every ball they get too. We're so used to seeing opponents try for too much and consequently missing many shots. These rally's are established nicely, with a good mix of pace and spin, plus they recognize when to come in off of ball, however they can definitely work on closing the net off a little better.

the serves are ok but i've seen better at Div II level in terms of pace and spin. (However, this video seems to be a little laggy in the frame rates area so it may be faster just not represented in the video.)

aimr75
07-13-2009, 04:19 PM
Yang Tsung Hua was the #1 ranked junior last year... his results as a junior rival that of Tomic Bernard. These guys are pros man...

you mean Bernard Tomic ;)

Great to watch this level of play.. particularly from that angle..

[ GTR ]
07-13-2009, 06:16 PM
Yeah, I really like how Sadik plays, he slices quite a lot, goes to the net too and he looks pretty short and his serve looks pretty big..

I've heard he's an excellent doubles player..

And the other guy, he's got a crazy *** forehand.

counterfeit25
07-13-2009, 07:27 PM
the serves are ok but i've seen better at Div II level in terms of pace and spin. (However, this video seems to be a little laggy in the frame rates area so it may be faster just not represented in the video.)

I think Yang was not going for as many fast serves during this match, I remember when he won the junior French Open his first serve was 128 mph AVERAGE, so I'm pretty sure he can serve it very hard. Also, he's only a little over 170cm tall :shock:

counterfeit25
07-13-2009, 07:35 PM
Yang is #403 right now, so that puts him at "6.5".

Once he improves his ranking by 3 places he will be a "7.0". But I'm sure he doesn't care, it's not like he plays in USTA leagues...

EtePras
07-13-2009, 08:13 PM
lmao, we're supposed to be impressed by people who haven't even broken the top 400? These guys suck, I will bet $1000 that neither of them ever takes a set off Fed in a slam.

MarrratSafin
07-13-2009, 08:21 PM
;3687034']Umm.. LeeD, Sadik Kadir's

Career Highlights

Highest ranking singles 415 Oct 2004
Highest ranking doubles 288 Jun 2005

And he has played ATP events...

Haha good on you, this just shows.:) LeeD's ratings are rubbish and always at least 1 or 1.5 lower than actual. He'll be rating Federer a 6.5 next.

aimr75
07-13-2009, 09:09 PM
lmao, we're supposed to be impressed by people who haven't even broken the top 400? These guys suck, I will bet $1000 that neither of them ever takes a set off Fed in a slam.

relative to 99.9% of the tennis playing population, yeah, they are impressive.. to me

goober
07-14-2009, 06:52 AM
lmao, we're supposed to be impressed by people who haven't even broken the top 400? These guys suck, I will bet $1000 that neither of them ever takes a set off Fed in a slam.


Hah I would bet a $1000 you couldn't get a game off either of these guys. If these guys suck what does that make you- Extreme mega suckage?

LeeD
07-14-2009, 08:22 AM
OK, I'll explain myself....a little.....
First of all, I went 4 and 5 rounds in two pro Q's, probably by luck, by draw, and a little decent tennis. Maybe more decent than most here......maybe not.
I normally play, now at 60 years old, with former top 300's who were ranked that less than 7 years ago, meaning they're less than half my age. Mostly doubles, it's true, but I never get to play WITH them, I always play against them. Those guys, one being a current top singles for Harvard, are NOT pro level tennis players. They are Q players playing top Div1.
A PROFFESSIONAL, a TOURING pro, not teaching pro, is always 6.5 and higher, have sponsorships (ie FREE, not 40% off wholesale) gear, clothing, accesories, some travel stipends (or FREE, if top 40), and make their money playing tennis, not teaching, not selling, not demonstrating, not stringing. Those guys are the 6.5 touring pros. They can be as low as top 400, but with potential seen thru a gear sponsorship, to move up.
A top Junior CAN be there, but most likely, will not make the main draw. See DonaldYoung and hundreds of other top Juniors. No first round, no money, just ONE round better than me in 1978. Not good enough!
Yes, top juniors can get exemptions, automatically into the main draw, but they DID NOT earn it thru Q play.
Yes, a TOP Junior should be at 5.5.
NO, a top 5.5 will not get better with bad balance, movement after the stroke, and high moonball groundies. Yes, most current players try to play that game. NO, most will not make it above 5.5 because they're playing that game.

LeeD
07-14-2009, 08:24 AM
:):) :) .......... just my view....

ttbrowne
07-14-2009, 09:11 AM
Don't let it fool ya, these guys are hitting with lots of pace. They just make it look easy. The vantage point from the back gives you no idea as to how fast the ball is flying.

goober
07-14-2009, 09:55 AM
OK, I'll explain myself....a little.....
First of all, I went 4 and 5 rounds in two pro Q's, probably by luck, by draw, and a little decent tennis. Maybe more decent than most here......maybe not.
I normally play, now at 60 years old, with former top 300's who were ranked that less than 7 years ago, meaning they're less than half my age. Mostly doubles, it's true, but I never get to play WITH them, I always play against them. Those guys, one being a current top singles for Harvard, are NOT pro level tennis players. They are Q players playing top Div1.
A PROFFESSIONAL, a TOURING pro, not teaching pro, is always 6.5 and higher, have sponsorships (ie FREE, not 40% off wholesale) gear, clothing, accesories, some travel stipends (or FREE, if top 40), and make their money playing tennis, not teaching, not selling, not demonstrating, not stringing. Those guys are the 6.5 touring pros. They can be as low as top 400, but with potential seen thru a gear sponsorship, to move up.
A top Junior CAN be there, but most likely, will not make the main draw. See DonaldYoung and hundreds of other top Juniors. No first round, no money, just ONE round better than me in 1978. Not good enough!
Yes, top juniors can get exemptions, automatically into the main draw, but they DID NOT earn it thru Q play.
Yes, a TOP Junior should be at 5.5.
NO, a top 5.5 will not get better with bad balance, movement after the stroke, and high moonball groundies. Yes, most current players try to play that game. NO, most will not make it above 5.5 because they're playing that game.


I don't see how Donald Young fits into your example at all considering his top ranking is #73, made it to 3rd round of the US Open and has a big contract with Nike. You were not even close to these guys in the video at any point in your career so your explanation really doesn't do anything for me. By maybe that's just me...

counterfeit25
07-14-2009, 10:07 AM
:):) :) .......... just my view....

Yeah I think it's just your view.



Anyway, back to the original post, I think Yang has room to improve on in his movement. He has great spinny, heavy strokes and a big serve when going for it. He didn't volley much in the video, but it looks like volleys are not his strong points. However, he did win a junior grand slam doubles title so I'm not 100% sure about that.

Hopefully, his ranking will continue to improve and break the top 200 soon! It seems I'm only talking about Yang, that's because I'm from Taiwan ;) I'm sure Sadik Kadir is a great player as well...

ubermeyer
07-14-2009, 11:34 AM
lol. you guys are crazy. the kids a 3.5 at best.

are you stupid? they are pros

LeeD
07-14-2009, 11:44 AM
I've watched quite a bit of KevinKim. He's above those guys.
I already mentioned they'd beat me.
A PROFESSIONAL tennis player is not sponsored by dad, has no other job but PLAYING tennis.
These guys are solid 5-5.5's for sure, but don't make money playing tennis. The term PROFESSIONAL implies they are making money at their chosen sport.
As for poor DonaldYoung. Nice kid, I still hope the best for him....and he's still trying. And he's ahead of those two.
Still, given all the hype about him, all the money spent on coaching and travel, he and these two guys have a really really long way to go. Donald might be 6-6.5, not a person making money and supporting his life thru PLAYING tennis.

nhat8121
07-14-2009, 12:03 PM
They're good 5-5.5 players. Would get killed in Q's and early rounds, but they won't get there.
Both solid players, both can beat 95% of us here on the forums, including me, of course.
Both lacking consistency, both seem to move during/after the stroke not balanced, but good players.
Nice service placments, nice angles, good Div1 college level.
what? I think they would beat at least 99% of the people here...

goober
07-14-2009, 12:21 PM
As for poor DonaldYoung. Nice kid, I still hope the best for him....and he's still trying. And he's ahead of those two.
Still, given all the hype about him, all the money spent on coaching and travel, he and these two guys have a really really long way to go. Donald might be 6-6.5, not a person making money and supporting his life thru PLAYING tennis.

I am not a Donald young fan by any means. But to call somebody a 6-6.5 who has been ranked in the top 100 and is currently 157, shows how completely clueless you are. If you are in the top 400 you are by definition 7.0. Young has made $463,553 already in Prize money and he hasn't even turned 20 yet. He has a multimillion dollar contract from Nike. Exactly how is he not a making a living through playing tennis?

VinhLam
07-14-2009, 12:24 PM
lmao, we're supposed to be impressed by people who haven't even broken the top 400? These guys suck, I will bet $1000 that neither of them ever takes a set off Fed in a slam.

I'm Impressed. That video was better than watching Wimbledon on terms of ball pace. I'm guessing they slow it down on tv. Of Course the would not take a set of Federer. Federer drops 3 sets the whole Wimbledon I think. One to Kolsheiber and Two to Roddick.

SuperJimmy
07-14-2009, 01:39 PM
Okay I think I figured it out.

Donald Young is 6.5, he beat Robert Kendrick and Tommy Haas which means Kendrick and Haas is 6.5 at best. Kendrick defeated Robin Solderling, which means Solderling is about a 6.0. Haas defeated Djokovic which means Novak is 6.0 at best as well. Solderling beat Nadal at the French, and both Nadal and Djokovic have beaten Federer, which means Federer is 5.5.

Tsung-Hua Yang defeated Arnau Brugues the NCAA D1 #2 ranked player. Arnau defeated Austin Krajicek. Austin defeated Lester Cook, who defeated Donald Young. But Donald Young lost to John Isner, who lost to Del Potro who lost to Federer. Therefore, both Kadir and Yang are 5.0-5.5...this logic has also caused a rift in the space-time contiuum.

On a more serious note, by DEFINITION, 7.0 is players under #400, 6.5 is players over #400 on the circuit. 6.0 is top 75 D1 player. Again, this is by definition from the USTA website, not personal feeling. At some point, I think the idea of ratings should just be thrown out the window (and like others have said, it isn't like these guys will be playing USTA leagues). If you can beat a guy that beat a guy that beat a guy that beat Federer...that should should speak for itself. Of course that doesnt mean they are top 10 talent. But they are talented enough to play at a level very very few can play. They don't SUCK like EtePras was saying.

psYcon
07-14-2009, 09:25 PM
They're good 5-5.5 players. Would get killed in Q's and early rounds, but they won't get there.
Both solid players, both can beat 95% of us here on the forums, including me, of course.
Both lacking consistency, both seem to move during/after the stroke not balanced, but good players.
Nice service placments, nice angles, good Div1 college level.

Actually they would beat 100% of the people here. I don't think anyone on this board is an ATP pro.

nfor304
07-14-2009, 10:34 PM
Kadir served me a bagel set about 2 years ago :-(

nfor304
07-14-2009, 10:35 PM
btw Kadir beat Nicolas Lapentti in this years Sydney INternational in the first round of qualies

nfor304
07-14-2009, 10:44 PM
OK, I'll explain myself....a little.....
First of all, I went 4 and 5 rounds in two pro Q's, probably by luck, by draw, and a little decent tennis. Maybe more decent than most here......maybe not.
I normally play, now at 60 years old, with former top 300's who were ranked that less than 7 years ago, meaning they're less than half my age. Mostly doubles, it's true, but I never get to play WITH them, I always play against them. Those guys, one being a current top singles for Harvard, are NOT pro level tennis players. They are Q players playing top Div1.
A PROFFESSIONAL, a TOURING pro, not teaching pro, is always 6.5 and higher, have sponsorships (ie FREE, not 40% off wholesale) gear, clothing, accesories, some travel stipends (or FREE, if top 40), and make their money playing tennis, not teaching, not selling, not demonstrating, not stringing. Those guys are the 6.5 touring pros. They can be as low as top 400, but with potential seen thru a gear sponsorship, to move up.
A top Junior CAN be there, but most likely, will not make the main draw. See DonaldYoung and hundreds of other top Juniors. No first round, no money, just ONE round better than me in 1978. Not good enough!
Yes, top juniors can get exemptions, automatically into the main draw, but they DID NOT earn it thru Q play.
Yes, a TOP Junior should be at 5.5.
NO, a top 5.5 will not get better with bad balance, movement after the stroke, and high moonball groundies. Yes, most current players try to play that game. NO, most will not make it above 5.5 because they're playing that game.

when you say 'pro qualies' are you talking about atp events or challengers/futures? because Kadir has been playing the itf tour for years

NLBwell
07-14-2009, 10:58 PM
Compared to the top guys you see on TV, they seem to put the ball short more often, are not quite as consistent and their serves don't seem as frightening (though a poster above said one wasn't serving as hard as he was capable). Small differences, but certainly a difference from the top pros. Compared to everyone else in the world, amazing.
These guys are top 400 in the world and they really don't get any respect, playing on what could be public courts with not even windscreens for a background. It's a tough business. (There are around 900 guys playing Major League Baseball - team flights, top training facilities, big stadiums, etc.)

mucat
07-14-2009, 11:04 PM
You can see how fast the ball move after the bounce. They are hitting with major league pace, and depth too. They are definitely higher than 5.0 or 5.5. How much higher is above and beyond my skills to judge. :)

Thanks OP for the video! Very nice.

Djokovicfan4life
07-15-2009, 02:02 AM
are you stupid? they are pros

Um, maybe zapvor was kidding?

It's a common joke on these boards, you know.

zapvor
07-15-2009, 07:08 AM
are you stupid? they are pros

its sarcasm...

Nellie
07-15-2009, 07:16 AM
That is a ridiculously fast court - their serves are breaking 2-3 feet with pace. I can see why they would go to more spin and less pace.

When I watch the video though, what really strikes me is how unglamorous low level professional tennis is. These look like crowded public courts, with a judge standing nearby at ground level, hardly getting a decent view.

dennis10is
07-15-2009, 08:41 AM
I'm a 3.5 so they are 3.5 to 4.0.

They looked a bit inconsistent so maybe a 3.0?

On second thought, they looked kinda small and weak, so a 2.5?

They are Asians, like myself, so maybe a 2.0?

Final answer, they are 2.0 beginners and should read the Tips and Instruction forum to improve their games.

The video said Challengers, but I think it is a Challengers to the Qualies for Men's 3.0 league.

Sadly, they are dreaming if they think they are good enough for Men's 3.0 league but we should encourage them to improve and their dreams may come true.

Flyingpanda
07-15-2009, 05:23 PM
I've watched quite a bit of KevinKim. He's above those guys.
I already mentioned they'd beat me.
A PROFESSIONAL tennis player is not sponsored by dad, has no other job but PLAYING tennis.
These guys are solid 5-5.5's for sure, but don't make money playing tennis. The term PROFESSIONAL implies they are making money at their chosen sport.
As for poor DonaldYoung. Nice kid, I still hope the best for him....and he's still trying. And he's ahead of those two.
Still, given all the hype about him, all the money spent on coaching and travel, he and these two guys have a really really long way to go. Donald might be 6-6.5, not a person making money and supporting his life thru PLAYING tennis.


I don't understand how you can be so misinformed about the way the rating system works. Have you even looked at the guidlines?
http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/sitecore_usta/USTA/Document%20Assets/2008/02/14/doc_13_7372.pdf

According to the chart, a current player doing satellite, futures, or circuit events, ranked above 400 is BY DEFINITION a 6.5. It doesn't matter what you think of their strokes from watching this video. World class players are 7.0s. Donald Young is automatically, according to the guidelines, a 7.0. Maybe you could make an argument for these two being a 6.0 (I don't know anything about the current ranking). But by the results indicated by people in the thread, these two rate as 6.5. There is no way that you could rate them 5.5, then explain your decision based on your subjective opinion about their playing.

dsa202
07-17-2009, 01:40 PM
They're good 5-5.5 players. Would get killed in Q's and early rounds, but they won't get there.
Both solid players, both can beat 95% of us here on the forums, including me, of course.
Both lacking consistency, both seem to move during/after the stroke not balanced, but good players.
Nice service placments, nice angles, good Div1 college level.

Def not 5.0-5.5, they are pros, thats 6 and above.

95%...No. Probably more like 100%, unless there are pros on these forums.