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View Full Version : Stop Cutting the Volley!!


zammouka
07-13-2009, 07:32 AM
NO matter what I do I cannot stop my brother from cutting at the volley instead of sticking it. This drives me crazy. I keep telling him dont cut it, and then I demonstrate for him. Any one have a way to fix this. I have been coaching him for the past few months. Also on this thread could I get any drills that would help him with his game. Thanks.

LeeD
07-13-2009, 07:44 AM
OK, so he kills you with his drop volleys...
Tell him once the opposition catch's on, and moves forward, he'll have to PUNCH his volleys deep near the baseline with the same grip..conti..but forward movement instead of leading with his racket edge.
Let him have his fun with the drop volley, add the punch deep volley to his repetoire.
If he has little time, the punch is just a shoulder and arm short stroke.
If he has time, it's deployed with legdrive and forward movement, in addition to the shoulder and arm short stroke.

OTMPut
07-13-2009, 07:45 AM
Tie a tennis ball from the ceiling so that it dangles two feet in front of him at a comfortable volleying height. He should not be allowed to move his feet to hit the ball. He has no way but to stick the racket out to meet the ball.

LeeD
07-13-2009, 07:51 AM
Or make him volley against the wall....

Blade0324
07-13-2009, 08:17 AM
I'm not sure why you think that what he is doing is so bad. A volley should have underspin on it if hit properly. This aids in keeping the ball low off the bounce and making it a more difficult next shot for your opponent. The only way to achieve this backspin is to cut under the ball slightly. Sounds like your brother may have better volleying technique than you.

NickH87
07-13-2009, 08:31 AM
All I do is drop volley, I need to learn how to punch it because theres times where I need to but I cant lol.

Nonentity
07-13-2009, 09:02 AM
on forehand volley, tell him to keep his wrist straight, then tell him to hold his left arm as if he is about to shake someone's hand. Then tell him to bring the butt of the racket straight into his left hand.

plasma
07-13-2009, 09:07 AM
tell him that his Chi town player brother is a royal Zmouka and that he can play any volley style he wants. Here are just a few: undercutting, sticking it (or punching it), blocking it without a punch. Is he split stepping and rotating side on to every volley? if he's doing that he can take a friggin topspin swing volley for all I care. Critique his feet, let his hands go. I have been coaching professionally since 1995, the first thing they taught us was not to produce robots.

WildVolley
07-13-2009, 09:15 AM
I have sympathy. For some reason, a lot of lower level players habituate themselves into violently chopping at all volleys. My players blow volleys all the time because they chop at them instead of putting them into play or punching through.

Don't assume the player is chopping at the volley on purpose. For a lot of them, it is enough of a habit that it is happening subconsciously. I've told players to think of the racket as coming down an escalator rather than a chop. I've heard of people volleying over a table to cut down on the chopping.

For those of you who think that always chopping under a volley is good form, please cite a professional player who uses that technique. I grew up watching McEnroe, and I don't recall ever seeing a professional using the beginner chop as his go-to volley.

zammouka
07-13-2009, 10:11 AM
[QUOTE=Blade0324;3687075]I'm not sure why you think that what he is doing is so bad. A volley should have underspin on it if hit properly. This aids in keeping the ball low off the bounce and making it a more difficult next shot for your opponent. The only way to achieve this backspin is to cut under the ball slightly. Sounds like your brother may have better volleying technique than you.[/QUOTE

There is no need to attack my skills when i am asking a favor. A drop volley is great, but when you have to put a ball down and you decide to patty cake it over the net, your opponent will easily hit a winner. I know you have to have have some underspin but knifing a volley will not get you anywhere if you want to be any good.
No hard feelings.

yellowoctopus
07-13-2009, 10:14 AM
I see this a lot among baseliners...

In my opinion, I believe the problem is more with the feet than the hand. Many players have a difficult time moving into the ball, or moving in general, at the net, especially the baseline players. This usually results in them waiting for the ball to come to them and trying to change the direction by using the wrist.

My coach once said that you volley mostly with your feet. Among the drills me made us do to promote the use of our feet to volley, the most memorable one is when he made us volley with a small trash bin cover--I think it limits our range (therefore, we have to run to the ball instead of reaching) and reminds us to punch the ball.

boojay
07-13-2009, 12:24 PM
I'm not sure why you think that what he is doing is so bad. A volley should have underspin on it if hit properly. This aids in keeping the ball low off the bounce and making it a more difficult next shot for your opponent. The only way to achieve this backspin is to cut under the ball slightly. Sounds like your brother may have better volleying technique than you.

No offense, but your post was pretty lame and a cheap shot. Consider yourself lucky that the OP was respectful in replying to your jab.

To OP, I have a partner that does the exact same thing and it drives me nuts because his volleys are incredibly inconsistent which makes it difficult to do volley drills with him. Come game time, his poor chopping/cutting volley technique produces unforced errors left and right. I know where you're coming from, but if your bro doesn't listen to you, you can only hope that someday he'll see the light. The nice part is you don't seem like the kind of person who would say "I told you so" after he's discovered the error of his ways.

raffi!
07-13-2009, 12:40 PM
Although this may be incredibly out of the ordinary, I recently recommended to my former doubles partner--who was terribly inconsistent with volleys--to punch his bh volley with two hands rather than one. Of course this reduces his range accuracy, but it really improved his doubles game. At least he got the ball into play hard and solid with two hands rather than inconsistently with one.

fuzz nation
07-13-2009, 07:43 PM
A good drill I've learned for quieting down a volleyer's arm and wrist while encouraging them to use their feet to drive the shot is to have the hitter hold the racquet up on the throat in the same continental alignment that will let him hit on either side with the same grip. Pretty much the webbing between the thumb and forefinger is on the side edge of the throat.

Feed balls to the hitter at slow/moderate pace with this grip and they should be forced to go out to the ball at the proper hitting zone. With an effectively shorter racquet, the hitter needs to use sound footwork and weight transfer to generate some pop on these volleys. Backing the hitter up to the "T" will force even more deliberate footwork to hit a good ball, but gripping up on the throat should discourage an overactive wrist.

Mansewerz
07-13-2009, 08:18 PM
I'm just gonna say thanks even though i'm not the op because these tips should help me too.

zammouka
07-13-2009, 11:16 PM
A good drill I've learned for quieting down a volleyer's arm and wrist while encouraging them to use their feet to drive the shot is to have the hitter hold the racquet up on the throat in the same continental alignment that will let him hit on either side with the same grip. Pretty much the webbing between the thumb and forefinger is on the side edge of the throat.

Feed balls to the hitter at slow/moderate pace with this grip and they should be forced to go out to the ball at the proper hitting zone. With an effectively shorter racquet, the hitter needs to use sound footwork and weight transfer to generate some pop on these volleys. Backing the hitter up to the "T" will force even more deliberate footwork to hit a good ball, but gripping up on the throat should discourage an overactive wrist.

Thank you. I will try that with him tommorow. Hopefully it works. I will post tommorow. Thank you all for all the advice. It is much apprecieated.

Blade0324
07-14-2009, 07:21 AM
[QUOTE=Blade0324;3687075]I'm not sure why you think that what he is doing is so bad. A volley should have underspin on it if hit properly. This aids in keeping the ball low off the bounce and making it a more difficult next shot for your opponent. The only way to achieve this backspin is to cut under the ball slightly. Sounds like your brother may have better volleying technique than you.[/QUOTE

There is no need to attack my skills when i am asking a favor. A drop volley is great, but when you have to put a ball down and you decide to patty cake it over the net, your opponent will easily hit a winner. I know you have to have have some underspin but knifing a volley will not get you anywhere if you want to be any good.
No hard feelings.

I didn't intend it as an attack on your skills but simply to perhaps have you look at things from a different perspective. I agree with you about there being a difference between knifing at that ball and undercutting it slightly. I had that idea from your OP that he was just undercutting it which is certainly a good play. If he is knifing at that ball as you are saying I would recommend 3 things. First have him bring the racquet up with 2 hands on both FH and BH but then pull the non dominant hand off as he moves through contact. This ensures full shoulder turn and makes knifing at the ball more difficult for him. Also try to teach him that his racquet head should never be below his wrist and also that on volleys that are above the level of the net that his follow through should stay above the level of the net.

Give these things a try and it should help him out.

ubermeyer
07-14-2009, 06:58 PM
I have sympathy. For some reason, a lot of lower level players habituate themselves into violently chopping at all volleys. My players blow volleys all the time because they chop at them instead of putting them into play or punching through.
.

I think this is just improper coaching. When I first learned volleys, I was taught to just get my racket on the ball at first, then I learned to punch through it. When I learned to hit some backspin on it, the "chop" motion felt unnatural at first.

Bungalo Bill
07-14-2009, 09:37 PM
NO matter what I do I cannot stop my brother from cutting at the volley instead of sticking it. This drives me crazy. I keep telling him dont cut it, and then I demonstrate for him. Any one have a way to fix this. I have been coaching him for the past few months. Also on this thread could I get any drills that would help him with his game. Thanks.

For some it is a hard thing to stop doing. Chances are he is swinging the racquet from the elbow down. This creating a chop at the ball.

He needs to learn to hit from the shoulder. Move his entire arm as a unit from the shoulder. Elbow does not roll or cause a chop, etc...

Dark_Angel85
07-14-2009, 09:40 PM
It's not uncommon that young players tend to overdo the slices when they volley cause there's some sorta comforting feeling that the ball is definitely going to go over the net with the elevated angle the ball goes when you hit it with a little bit of slice.

You could try to first get him way up to the net, hence eliminating most drooping balls (which have to be hit in one way or another with a bit of underspin) and give him sufficiently higher-above the waist balls. Tell him that the objective of the drill is to punch the ball to the corners of the baseline about 2-3 feet of room for error. This should get him to not need to have any cut or underspins cause being that far in front of the net, it gives him a lot of room to 'put away' the balls with the punching effect (with a little bit of energy, the pow on those balls is going to make him feel satisfied too).

This shouldn't take too long, hence when you feel he's getting the idea, get him to take 1-2 steps back, roughly 3 feet away from the net, and show him that he should step up 1 step to the net when hitting his volleys. Sort of like getting his body to get into the position he was previously in with just one step. This promotes the feet and body to move in to the volley as well as encourage your brother to move forward and take the ball before it has a chance to dip down too low - hence having to slice again. This drill should make him feel comfortable stepping up one step to volley with his entire body moving forward, which should feel very good and reduces the necessity of him using wrist or arm strength. He should feel that by using the entire body, the arm strength requirement is reduced thus making him feel like he can take more than before.

Hope this helps.


p/s: That being said, it is important to still not discourage him in developing some slice volleys as it is very helpful in handling low balls and trying to develop other volleying techniques as well.

:)

zammouka
07-15-2009, 01:24 AM
It's not uncommon that young players tend to overdo the slices when they volley cause there's some sorta comforting feeling that the ball is definitely going to go over the net with the elevated angle the ball goes when you hit it with a little bit of slice.

You could try to first get him way up to the net, hence eliminating most drooping balls (which have to be hit in one way or another with a bit of underspin) and give him sufficiently higher-above the waist balls. Tell him that the objective of the drill is to punch the ball to the corners of the baseline about 2-3 feet of room for error. This should get him to not need to have any cut or underspins cause being that far in front of the net, it gives him a lot of room to 'put away' the balls with the punching effect (with a little bit of energy, the pow on those balls is going to make him feel satisfied too).

This shouldn't take too long, hence when you feel he's getting the idea, get him to take 1-2 steps back, roughly 3 feet away from the net, and show him that he should step up 1 step to the net when hitting his volleys. Sort of like getting his body to get into the position he was previously in with just one step. This promotes the feet and body to move in to the volley as well as encourage your brother to move forward and take the ball before it has a chance to dip down too low - hence having to slice again. This drill should make him feel comfortable stepping up one step to volley with his entire body moving forward, which should feel very good and reduces the necessity of him using wrist or arm strength. He should feel that by using the entire body, the arm strength requirement is reduced thus making him feel like he can take more than before.

Hope this helps.


p/s: That being said, it is important to still not discourage him in developing some slice volleys as it is very helpful in handling low balls and trying to develop other volleying techniques as well.

:)

Thanks for the advice, I know that slice or drop volleys are great shots but I just want to add a consitent volley that he can use to put balls down when he has to. Thanks alot.

Nellie
07-15-2009, 07:24 AM
Stick a tennis ball between his arm and side and have him volley so that he is hitting with the feet and not the wrist.

paulfreda
07-16-2009, 01:12 AM
Have him begin the volley with the face closed a bit.
He will then use the same motion but end up hitting with a flat face.
When he feels that pop he will get addicted and want to develop it more.

Bungalo Bill
07-16-2009, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the advice, I know that slice or drop volleys are great shots but I just want to add a consitent volley that he can use to put balls down when he has to. Thanks alot.

You should not stop feeding low volleys. For low volleys he needs to work on bending his knees and not drooping the racquet head from the elbow or wrist.

With all volleys the racquet is swung from the shoulder. Low, high, mid-level all of them. Players who cut the volley or anything else that prevents a player from hitting a solid volley have too much elbow roll or are pushing their racquet down from the elbow.

Stepping back, moving forward, or performing summersaults does nothing to prevent too much use of the elbow in the stroke.

zammouka
07-16-2009, 06:16 PM
Bungalo bill, my old coach gave me the USPTA membership guide and i plan to take the exam in january. Do you have any advice. Oh, and what level pro are you. Thank you.

Trainer
07-16-2009, 07:22 PM
interesting. I find that the volleys that are the hardest to handle are ones that require a slice or chop. Shots that are diving or low can't be "stuck".

Mansewerz
07-16-2009, 07:29 PM
You should not stop feeding low volleys. For low volleys he needs to work on bending his knees and not drooping the racquet head from the elbow or wrist.

With all volleys the racquet is swung from the shoulder. Low, high, mid-level all of them. Players who cut the volley or anything else that prevents a player from hitting a solid volley have too much elbow roll or are pushing their racquet down from the elbow.

Stepping back, moving forward, or performing summersaults does nothing to prevent too much use of the elbow in the stroke.

But those volleys are the most fun! :D

TsongaEatingAPineappleLol
07-16-2009, 07:31 PM
Same here, man. I can not stress enough for him the punch the volley. It's a straight forward motion, with absolutely no take back. And to NOT be afraid of the ball, just fight through it.

jmhs
07-16-2009, 08:10 PM
Stick a tennis ball between his arm and side and have him volley so that he is hitting with the feet and not the wrist.

I like this idea. Want to try it...the ball nestles between the back and side of his bicep for both forehand and backhand volleys? Thx.