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View Full Version : How do I play a cheat???


federer_15
07-15-2009, 01:29 AM
I play in tournaments regularly and more often than not I play someone who cheats.

The umpires don't seem to do anything...

What do I do?

Should I play any differently?

Most of the times they cheat on line calls...

tata
07-15-2009, 01:59 AM
Then try to hit within the lines, not on them.

naylor
07-15-2009, 03:03 AM
I play in tournaments regularly and more often than not I play someone who cheats...The umpires don't seem to do anything...Most of the times they cheat on line calls...

My son complains about the same thing - being cheated by bad line calls in tournaments.

First of all, consider yourself lucky you have umpires in your matches - but just think of them as scorers (at least you won't have disputes on the score!).

Second - and someone else has already said this - don't go for the lines, go for the same shot but make sure it goes inside the lines. You're not a pro that needs to hit lines consistently to win points, a foot or three inside the line will achieve the same result, if your shot was hit properly (as in, proper pace, placement and spin, rather than just "pushed"). Granted, some shots will then come back, but the vast majority will come back for put-aways - so here the discipline is to force yourself to be ready to play one more shot in that rally if your opponent makes you. That discipline will be invaluable as you improve and play better players, who will somehow get the ball back and hence ask you to play one more shot (lesson here - the point is not over till the "fat person" in the umpire chair sings the score).

Third, if there are still some "funny" calls, don't let it add up till it gets to you. Every tournament has set rules regarding line disputes - namely, you can "down tools" and go speak to a tournament or match supervisor if you think calls are going against you unfairly. If that happens, don't wait till you've lost a basketful of points, do it after the second or third bad call. What you're doing is planting the seed "somewhere within the tennis establishment" that someone is a potential cheat. The fact of the matter is that it's often the same people that do the cheating. But unless a number of you regularly out those people for what they are, they will continue to get away with it and spoil your matches.

Obviously, there's no problem if you beat them. For that, go back to "second" above - a line umpire won't win you the match, only you can do that.

mikeler
07-15-2009, 05:40 AM
Keep asking your opponent "Are you sure?". If you want to be extremely confrontational, wait for your opponent to hit a first serve that is obviously in and call it out.

Dreamer
07-15-2009, 06:26 AM
I would complain a lot-- "Are you kidding me?!". Question every bad call. Pretend to be angry, but don't really because it'll mess up your game. lol

and when we shake hands I'd whisper under my breathe "cheater" :p

plasma
07-15-2009, 06:45 AM
I would ask for the tournament director and ask the official to be removed.
The key is to get upset without getting upset. The art of getting what you want without going psycho, not studied much in this country....
In most junior tourneys you have to request an ump after a bad call, and then one comes on court. The idea of calling an obvious good serve of his in "OUT" is brilliant, better than trying to change your targets or strokes, I would do it until he called the ump himself, or until he did it in retaliation one last time and then call the ump....unless you drop shot and seek to roast him with a ball or two.
Not like you're going to actually hit him or hurt him. Just give him another free point, but this time, it'll make him think twice about cheating.
CHeaters aren't planning to win through the free point or two, they know your reaction will make you just nervous enough to loose the smooth subconcious mentality needed to win a match. Expect this, prepare mentally in your mind whatever tactic you decide, don't just let this type of player make you go all Columbine for nothing, then he wins (first time I used that adjective....schweet!)

mikeler
07-15-2009, 07:19 AM
My coach taught me about calling the obvious in serve out. He had coached a number of juniors that had to deal with cheaters. I've only called the obvious in serve out a few times. It always results in a very angry response, but after that the calls got much more fair.

SethIMcClaine
07-15-2009, 01:11 PM
I play alot of socials, we have one guy that always cheats, basically if its on the line he calls it out so he doesnt have to go after it... ticks me off but I usually let it slide since it is social, and next time I try harder to make it more obvious.
If you really want to get into a confrentation, ask them how sure they were... be looking for a percentage, if they say anything short of 100% be like ok, my point! If youre not 100% confident of your call, its a bad call and the advantage should go towards the ball being in the court

dman72
07-15-2009, 01:29 PM
Funny, I'm playing a friendly match the other day. The guy I'm playing tells me that he should be wearing glasses or contacts, but that he doesn't when he's playing tennis.

:confused:

So, I hit 2 serves that land right on the line..not on the outside of the line..not close, right down the middle..they're basically right on the t, no way are they out. The first one I let go. The second, he calls out, I say "in" and move over to the other side. He looks at me. I say "the line is in, not out. That ball was in or we're done." He was ok with the calls after that, although he called a couple that were cranked right at his feet on the baseline out that no way he could have actually seen, even if they were an inch or 2 out at most.

I like playing the guy except for this. It's one of the drawbacks of playing tennis ..line calls can be a real issue. I have to start hitting the ball a foot in all the way around.

plasma
07-15-2009, 01:54 PM
I grew up playing tournaments and regional crap in college, even if someone can paint the lines that is an accumulated coordinated motion, 20 posters on these boards think you can "just pull it in a few inches", which is absurd.
The irony of overhitting and underhitting will make you miss completely. I am certified as pro skill level, ***** if I can paint the lines and can't pull it in on the fly, I don't think most cats here could.
Managing cheaters is about communicating and relating to them, having the attitude that you are about to murder them and then being able to return to a happy funny unaffected zen state.
Whether the call was avenged or not is not the point, you didn't loose your point, you lost your cool and now your back is tightening up and shaking a little bit and the righteous player is about to throw the match, that's what it's all about.
Luckily I was beaten severely in the ring by pro championship boxers and got much of the same from my brother growing up. Having the split personality thing makes cheaters nervous to play me after they try their antics. Soemtimes you nedd to compete off anger,sometimes showing anger will make you nervous enough against a cheater to loose and you need to smile and show them how absurd they are and unaffected you are.

Nonentity
07-15-2009, 02:51 PM
1st bad call - "Are you sure?"
2nd bad call - "Are you sure?"
3rd bad call - "PLease pay more attention to your calls because that wasn;t out"
4th - call an umpire to supervise the match.

woodrow1029
07-15-2009, 03:00 PM
I would ask for the tournament director and ask the official to be removed.
The key is to get upset without getting upset. The art of getting what you want without going psycho, not studied much in this country....
In most junior tourneys you have to request an ump after a bad call, and then one comes on court. The idea of calling an obvious good serve of his in "OUT" is brilliant, better than trying to change your targets or strokes, I would do it until he called the ump himself, or until he did it in retaliation one last time and then call the ump....unless you drop shot and seek to roast him with a ball or two.
Not like you're going to actually hit him or hurt him. Just give him another free point, but this time, it'll make him think twice about cheating.
CHeaters aren't planning to win through the free point or two, they know your reaction will make you just nervous enough to loose the smooth subconcious mentality needed to win a match. Expect this, prepare mentally in your mind whatever tactic you decide, don't just let this type of player make you go all Columbine for nothing, then he wins (first time I used that adjective....schweet!)
First of all, the tournament director doesn't have the authority to remove the roving official from a match. Secondly, the tournament director can't act as a roving official.

3lowdown
07-15-2009, 03:57 PM
.....move on, and keep playing. More likely than not that one point that you got "cheated" on will not loose or win the match for you.

Your focus should always be on the ball, and if you get all emotional from one call then you are going to loose the match. If you try and do the whole call the obvious ball out thing then your focusing more on things that arent as important as THE BALL.

VaBeachTennis
07-15-2009, 04:01 PM
If you have enough control, I'd bust his ----- and hit short shots, lob him, and hit strong shots well within the court, as well as junk ball him to death, and then ask in a smart assed way; "Was that out?" when i win the point.
Oddly enough, I have the opposite problem when I play matches with the people I play with. They seem to call a shot that I thought was "out"................ "in".

VaBeachTennis
07-15-2009, 04:02 PM
.....move on, and keep playing. More likely than not that one point that you got "cheated" on will not loose or win the match for you.

Your focus should always be on the ball, and if you get all emotional from one call then you are going to loose the match. If you try and do the whole call the obvious ball out thing then your focusing more on things that arent as important as THE BALL.

Great advice.

Tim Tennis
07-15-2009, 04:39 PM
Interesting topic. First I would have to say that no one wants to win by cheating, there is no honor in that and you certainly can't feel good about the win if you cheat.

But it does happen. For some people their ego is so out of control they can't help themselves.

When I play I try to be pro active, I use reverse psychology. Early in the match I make sure all of my line calls are correct. Even if I think it might be slightly out I will call it good and say I really wasn't sure so I have to call it good. If I see one of my shots go just slightly out and my opponet calls it good, I will tell him I appreciate the call but I am pretty sure my shot was out. Once you set the tone and let your opponent know that you are going to be fair and call the in and out balls as best you can, it can totally change the emotions of the match and both you and your opponent can just have fun and do the best both of you can. I think that for most of us there is "primitive sense of fairness," which boils down to if you treat your opponet right he is going to treat you right.

Best regards,

Ed
Tennis Geometrics

http://www.tennisgeometrics.com

SethIMcClaine
07-15-2009, 05:31 PM
The irony of overhitting and underhitting will make you miss completely. I am certified as pro skill level, ***** if I can paint the lines and can't pull it in on the fly, I don't think most cats here could.
I can understand this comment on serves, but I would think that you could alter your ground strokes enough to bring them in a foot of two on the fly. If you dont have control of that, how do you move your opponent? How do you adjust on an off day?

3lowdown
07-15-2009, 06:24 PM
if you treat your opponet right he is going to treat you right.

thats very very true right there, and like he said no one really wants to win a match cheating.

Think about it the last time this situation came up, did you A) Blow up at the other player or B) did you move on. How did that match turn out for you?

Fedace
07-15-2009, 06:37 PM
I would go across the net and punch him out.

conditionZero
07-15-2009, 07:16 PM
I have to disagree with some of my fellow posters on this one.

Intentionally calling in balls out is not the way to go. Retalitory calls are worse than the original offense. You think he's cheating you, but maybe he just sucks at line calls. You would definitely be cheating if you know the ball is in and you call it out.
I know it sounds like a cliche, but stooping to his level only brings the entire game of tennis down.
This isn't soccer (futball?), basketball, baseball, or football (American futball?) - this is tennis. Tennis is held to a higher standard. Can you imagine a football game being self-officiated?

The advice about split personalities and blowing up at your opponent is also misdirected. That's actually ridiculous. I think someone needs to go back to boxing.

A match seems like the most important thing in the world while you're playing it, I understand that, but is a match here and there worth throwing away your self-respect and dignity?

Lastly, I'm troubled by your statement "more often than not I play someone who cheats". This has not been my experience with tennis at all. Occasionally I run up against someone who sucks at line calls, or is not very good at giving the benefit of the doubt to his/her opponent (which, I suppose, it technically cheating) but rarely have I played someone that I thought was actually, intentionally, cheating. Other posters have mentioned junior competition. Maybe they know something about you I don't, are you a junior? If so, is this common amoung junior? Because, as an adult, I don't think most people cheat that flagrantly.

Fedace
07-15-2009, 07:23 PM
^^What about punching him out cold idea. ???

Jim A
07-15-2009, 07:29 PM
of course we are assuming that the OP isn't just "thinking" his shots are in when they are out

I had a guy get all ****y last week when one of his shots was at least 6" out before I realized he was questioning the call...a lot of times a ball that is called in by an opponent will look out from the other view and not vice versa

the further a match slips from someone's hands the more their opponent is a sandbagger/cheater

conditionZero
07-15-2009, 07:40 PM
of course we are assuming that the OP isn't just "thinking" his shots are in when they are out

I had a guy get all ****y last week when one of his shots was at least 6" out before I realized he was questioning the call...a lot of times a ball that is called in by an opponent will look out from the other view and not vice versa

the further a match slips from someone's hands the more their opponent is a sandbagger/cheater

That's actually what I was trying to imply in my previous post without coming right out and saying it.

conditionZero
07-15-2009, 07:43 PM
^^What about punching him out cold idea. ???

Something tells that me you would get your *** kicked if you tried that that. I think the assumption is that he's playing against guys.

Steady Eddy
07-15-2009, 07:44 PM
Intentionally calling in balls out is not the way to go. Retalitory calls are worse than the original offense. You think he's cheating you, but maybe he just sucks at line calls. You would definitely be cheating if you know the ball is in and you call it out.
I know it sounds like a cliche, but stooping to his level only brings the entire game of tennis down.
Something else to think about, what if someone sees your deliberately out call? They don't know the history of the match, they just see you obviously cheat, and they're going to tell others. Is it worth getting a bad reputation? It's like when we discussed not shaking your opponents hand. That doesn't make them look bad, you do. And if people see you calling shots way in "out", people will think WTF? It might not be worth it.

Lastly, I'm troubled by your statement "more often than not I play someone who cheats". This has not been my experience with tennis at all.
Same with me. I've met plenty of people who don't know The Code, and that makes the match less pleasant, but that's just ignorance, not willful cheating. Could this be different in different regions? In AZ most players are okay.

mikeler
07-16-2009, 05:52 AM
Something else to think about, what if someone sees your deliberately out call? They don't know the history of the match, they just see you obviously cheat, and they're going to tell others. Is it worth getting a bad reputation? It's like when we discussed not shaking your opponents hand. That doesn't make them look bad, you do. And if people see you calling shots way in "out", people will think WTF? It might not be worth it.


Same with me. I've met plenty of people who don't know The Code, and that makes the match less pleasant, but that's just ignorance, not willful cheating. Could this be different in different regions. In AZ most players are okay.


Well, before you do it you need to check out the lay of the land. I've never done this with anybody watching because then you are correct. I look like the jerk.

As an adult, I've never used this technique. Only in the juniors did I find it necessary against blatant cheaters. Some of these kids were so good, I was puzzled why they found it necessary to cheat while they are double bageling me.

That does not mean I have not run into bad line calls as an adult. In those cases, I truly felt that it was a difference of opinion. I don't play tournaments or leagues anymore, so everyone I play is very fair including myself. It's much easier on clay to call lines when you have a mark to see.

Sublime
07-16-2009, 07:46 AM
of course we are assuming that the OP isn't just "thinking" his shots are in when they are out

The OP also says the chair ump wouldn't do anything. So I suggest this experiment.

If you think you get hosed on a line call, especially one on a line near the ump, and the ump doesn't do anything. The next time a ball is on the line, near the chair ump, make an equally bad call.

My guess is that the chair ump corrects your call. Guess what? The chair ump isn't also trying to cheat you, you just didn't see the first call correctly. If they don't overrule... well then everything is probably even.

raiden031
07-16-2009, 07:49 AM
Is the prevalence of cheating more associated with juniors or with tournaments vs. leagues?

I play in usta adult leagues which are very competitive and the occasional tournament, and not once have I encountered someone that I believe was a cheater. There have been maybe a handful of bad calls, but I don't think they were intentional. I feel like the majority players actually would prefer to lose with integrity than to win by cheating.

mikeler
07-16-2009, 08:15 AM
Is the prevalence of cheating more associated with juniors or with tournaments vs. leagues?

I play in usta adult leagues which are very competitive and the occasional tournament, and not once have I encountered someone that I believe was a cheater. There have been maybe a handful of bad calls, but I don't think they were intentional. I feel like the majority players actually would prefer to lose with integrity than to win by cheating.


I can only speak for juniors around 20 years ago here in Central Florida. I remember overhearing some of the better players hanging out together at 1 tournament joking that "When in doubt, call it out". Bottom line, I had a few problems with deliberate cheating in juniors.

Like I said before, I have not encountered what I believe to be deliberate cheating by anyone in an adult league or tournament.

VaBeachTennis
07-16-2009, 10:32 AM
I would go across the net and punch him out.

LOL, then possibly go to jail, get sued, and/or get your *** kicked over a few bad calls and playing a game........................... Not worth it. ;)

woodrow1029
07-16-2009, 10:34 AM
I would go across the net and punch him out.
Or you could accuse the person making the line calls of being a stalker and have them banned from the tennis court for a week.

BillH
07-16-2009, 12:51 PM
I played in a "seniors" USTA league last year and in one match I noticed some really horrible calls. At first, I was kinda ****ed and then I realized the guys were even more senior than me and couldn't honestly see the ball at the pace we were hitting - they weren't used to it and weren't intentionally cheating. I have to agree, in USTA leagues and tournaments, cheating is not very common - mistaken calls might be, but not intentional cheating.

Steady Eddy
07-16-2009, 03:15 PM
I played in a "seniors" USTA league last year and in one match I noticed some really horrible calls. At first, I was kinda ****ed and then I realized the guys were even more senior than me and couldn't honestly see the ball at the pace we were hitting - they weren't used to it and weren't intentionally cheating. I have to agree, in USTA leagues and tournaments, cheating is not very common - mistaken calls might be, but not intentional cheating.
But what about the idea of not calling it "out" if you're not sure? If your eyesight is bad, then you should be calling alot of shots good that are out. It shouldn't be the other way around. I think they were unethical, and can't use their bad eyesight as an excuse.

naylor
07-16-2009, 03:39 PM
... As an adult, I've never used this technique. Only in the juniors did I find it necessary against blatant cheaters. Some of these kids were so good, I was puzzled why they found it necessary to cheat while they are double bageling me.... I can only speak for juniors around 20 years ago here in Central Florida. I remember overhearing some of the better players hanging out together at 1 tournament joking that "When in doubt, call it out". Bottom line, I had a few problems with deliberate cheating in juniors...
Like I said before, I have not encountered what I believe to be deliberate cheating by anyone in an adult league or tournament.

I would tend to agree (about the juniors). In fact, my son and I were watching two kids in a tournament, both belonging to the same club (as my son) and training together in the club squad - hence, mates - and one of them made a horrid line call. My son and I were sitting along the sideline and could see it was a good 6 inches inside the line. The other kid just turned around and said "he's stuffing me, why does he need to cheat me too?"

But I have also seen it in adult league. Same situation (sitting along the line and above, where a line umpire would have sat), the player at the far end hits down the line, opponent just below me calls it wide... and then immediately looks up to check whether someone had watched his cheat... and sees me! But he thinks I'm just a spectator, so does nothing. What he didn't realise is I played for the same team as his opponent - I just hadn't been selected for that match - and had just popped in to watch (we were playing a relegation battle at a neutral venue, so he took me for a casual watcher rather than a friend of his opponent). So, I signalled to my fellow team player that I had seen the ball as well in - and now he knew what he had to contend with. He didn't even bother with a casual "how was that?", simply adjusted his game to give extra margin around the lines, and proceeded to stuff the cheat.

naylor
07-16-2009, 03:45 PM
But what about the idea of not calling it "out" if you're not sure? If your eyesight is bad, then you should be calling alot of shots good that are out. It shouldn't be the other way around. I think they were unethical, and can't use their bad eyesight as an excuse.

Entirely agree, if in any doubt that it might not have been out, the call should be "in".

jasonjm
07-16-2009, 08:12 PM
Keep asking your opponent "Are you sure?". If you want to be extremely confrontational, wait for your opponent to hit a first serve that is obviously in and call it out.

I second that

10s talk
07-16-2009, 08:24 PM
Keep asking your opponent "Are you sure?". If you want to be extremely confrontational, wait for your opponent to hit a first serve that is obviously in and call it out.


that is Vic Braden's advice...... then when he/she questions your call, you say you take a few inches, I take a foot,....THEY ARE BOTH IN !

raiden031
07-16-2009, 08:36 PM
I always wonder what I would do if I faced a true cheater, and I feel like the only way to teach them a lesson is to walk off the court. That is the ultimate statement to make where you aren't sinking their level (with retaliatory bad calls), and basically you spoiled their day of tennis by quitting the match early. Has anyone ever done that? I would definitely make that sacrifice out of principle if someone really deserved it.

tangoll
07-16-2009, 09:25 PM
I used to play a guy like that...calls my serves that I know hit the T "out", close calls on his side of lines are always called late and "out", or he would return my serve and see how his return did, and if his return was out or into net, he would then say my serve was a fault, etc...

I cured this situation by ignoring his calls, and on my serves, when I set up to serve the next point, I would call the score as if my shot had been good, regardless if he had called it "out". That would give him fits, because then we would be arguing about what the score should be and when he came to his called "out" point, I would merely say, "oh, but my shot/serve was absolutely on the line. Your call was off (or incorrect, or too late)."

And I would stand my ground on the score. After a while, he got so flustered that his bad calls actually got cured, because he realized that I wouldn't stand for it, and called the next score whatever I thought the score should be regardless of his line calls.

plasma
07-17-2009, 03:23 AM
most of us are decent players. some could even squash a legit 5.0 pusher. But most of us would lose to a 3.5 cheater. Can you controll how you feel??? no
to some extent you can controll thoughts, but emotions and sensations are guided...not controlled.
The way you feel when you see a baby, a bird, a puppy that you are petting when saying "yesh ghood, doggie,awwww", how about a cop when your on the freeway doing just ten over the limit?....
the same way those situations force emotions or compell emotions and actions, so does a cheater.
Never tried cheating on a cheater. Lost to cheaters before and then came back and won after being prepared to be flustered. Cheaters also cheat by accusing others of cheating. In a park or club setting you must call them on this. after a while I just don't play with vampirish cheaters. If it's a tournament be really careful about kepping score and take no ***** with calls,,,

Fedace
07-17-2009, 04:28 AM
Or you could accuse the person making the line calls of being a stalker and have them banned from the tennis court for a week.

What would a Umpire do if some guy started to go across the net towards the opponent ? Would you get out of the chair and get in between them ?

BillH
07-17-2009, 08:44 AM
But what about the idea of not calling it "out" if you're not sure? If your eyesight is bad, then you should be calling alot of shots good that are out. It shouldn't be the other way around. I think they were unethical, and can't use their bad eyesight as an excuse.

My point is that they weren't unsure - they thought, I believe, that the ball was out and called it that way. They "called them as they saw them" - unfortuanately, they didn't see them all that good.

dsa202
07-17-2009, 08:59 AM
1st bad call - "Are you sure?"
2nd bad call - "Are you sure?"
3rd bad call - "PLease pay more attention to your calls because that wasn;t out"
4th - call an umpire to supervise the match.

That is way too many chances. I'd say 2, call an ump.

LuckyR
07-17-2009, 11:58 AM
I play in tournaments regularly and more often than not I play someone who cheats.

The umpires don't seem to do anything...

What do I do?

Should I play any differently?

Most of the times they cheat on line calls...

I find this odd. I have never seen your matches but around here cheating (as opposed to line call errors) is quite rare, in fact I have trouble remembering the second to last time that has happened.

Assuming you live in Cheatertown, I would fall back on the tried and true "cheat back" technique. Not going for lines will not stop a true cheater, plus even if it did, it would change the match into one where you are hitting into a smaller court than your opponent, that isn't tennis, that is some other, unnamed game...

woodrow1029
07-19-2009, 09:20 AM
What would a Umpire do if some guy started to go across the net towards the opponent ? Would you get out of the chair and get in between them ?
Absolutely!

Shaolin
07-19-2009, 09:55 AM
Some good and/or interesting responses in this thread.

My problem is that the cheater I play is a friend. He basically calls every ball that hits on/near the baseline on a big point out. 15-30, 7" from the line? OUT. Its sucks because the guy is a great player, easily 5.0 and I need to hit with a lot of depth against him. On top of that, he always mad dogs me when I call his serve out, even ones that are half a foot out he acts like they were in.

Its an unfortunate situation because he is one of my main hitting partners in the area and I need him to hit with. I just try to suck it up and not let him pull me down to his level, calls wise. Not sure how I would handle it in a tournament, thankfully I havent played him in a draw yet.

One final kicker: He is really religious and always trying to get me to go to church with his family. He even gave me a bible once. I guess theres nothing in the bible against cheating :roll:

Steady Eddy
07-19-2009, 01:08 PM
One final kicker: He is really religious and always trying to get me to go to church with his family. He even gave me a bible once. I guess theres nothing in the bible against cheating :roll:
Could you ask him, "Would Jesus call that shot out?" Then smile like you're just kidding. It might strike a chord with him.

naylor
07-19-2009, 04:20 PM
Could you ask him, "Would Jesus call that shot out?" Then smile like you're just kidding. It might strike a chord with him.

Good one!

Can you change your practice routines with him so you do more drill/pattern hitting and less point-playing - you can still "score" to make the drills more competitive, but you score when you hit a cone (or another target area) during the drill, so consistent accuracy gets tested and rewarded, rather than "in/out".

The other thing you can do when playing practice sets, particularly if he goes nuts when he things you gave a bad call, is to "agree to disagree". Every time you don't agree on a call, you automatically replay the point without further discussion. After all, it's a very unchristian attitude to risk a friendship for the sake of a little bust-up in a friendly hit. You can always add that there's something in the New Testament about "turning the other cheek", so you both agree to do that rather than argue. But seriously, the "turning the other cheek" replay strategy can be very good training also for both of you, in terms of learning to put a bad call or miss away, cooling down, and immediately getting on with the next point.

But when you play him in a match, do get an umpire!!!

federer_15
07-19-2009, 04:34 PM
Thats a great idea!

In my tournaments there are about 5 known cheats.

It just happened to be when I wrote this post I had played about 4 of them recently.

The other day I played a guy who was really fair and it just makes the game of tennis so much better. As I play a deep and heavy game some of my balls land within inches of the line or sometimes on the line and when I was playing this guy he would play them back as you should. It was quite weird because I had been use to people calling them out.

In Australia now you can actually get a code violation if the umpire catches you cheating :)

What annoys me the most is when someone isn't sure whether the ball is in or not so they say it is out.

I was playing a guy the other day who doesn't cheat a lot but on the crucial points thats when my ball would be called out if it was close to any line.

I hit a forehand cross court winner and he said "out" and I went up to the net and said "Are you sure" he replied "I'm Pretty sure." I then said to him" "If you're pretty sure you not sure and if you don't know it is my point." He then said " No, No I am sure".

This really frustrated me:mad:

Do people classify cheating as when someone constantly calls balls that are in out or when they change up the score e.g instead of been 5-1 it might be 3-3 ???

Steady Eddy
07-19-2009, 07:24 PM
I hit a forehand cross court winner and he said "out" and I went up to the net and said "Are you sure" he replied "I'm Pretty sure." I then said to him" "If you're pretty sure you not sure and if you don't know it is my point." He then said " No, No I am sure".

He's using the logic of a little kid. He finds out that he has to give the benefit of the doubt and then, suddenly, he becomes sure of his call! He's not aware of how transparent that is?

This really frustrated me:mad:

Do people classify cheating as when someone constantly calls balls that are in out or when they change up the score e.g instead of been 5-1 it might be 3-3 ???
Cheating on the game score is far worse. In your example the person took two entire games! What's awful is The Code says that the only way to settle this is with a racquet spin. If I'm up 5-1 and thinking the next game will mean I won a breadstick set, I'm sure not happy to follow The Code and start from 3-3! Whenever they have score cards I use them, it really rattles you to have someone say, "No it's not, it's 3-3." And I hate trying to reconstruct all the games. And I'm not 100% happy when they say, "OK, I'll let you have it, 5-1" They're not letting me have it. It is 5-1.

One place I like to reaffirm the score is at the crossover. If it's 3-3, my serve and I win, it's 3-4 because now they're the server. Watch out for them winning their serve and believing it's 5-3. "But you said..." When they ask the score, tell them "You're serving, and you have 3, so it's now 3 serving 4." Sounds like too much trouble? It's alot less trouble than arguing after the fact. Score cheaters are much worse than simple hookers.

BounceHitBounceHit
07-19-2009, 07:43 PM
1st bad call - "Are you sure?"
2nd bad call - "Are you sure?"
3rd bad call - "PLease pay more attention to your calls because that wasn;t out"
4th - call an umpire to supervise the match.

Good advice. BHBH

naylor
07-19-2009, 07:54 PM
...The other day I played a guy who was really fair and it just makes the game of tennis so much better. As I play a deep and heavy game some of my balls land within inches of the line or sometimes on the line and when I was playing this guy he would play them back as you should. It was quite weird because I had been use to people calling them out.
In Australia now you can actually get a code violation if the umpire catches you cheating :)
What annoys me the most is when someone isn't sure whether the ball is in or not so they say it is out... I was playing a guy the other day who doesn't cheat a lot but on the crucial points thats when my ball would be called out if it was close to any line...


What is weird is that you actually feel surprised and grateful that someone plays by the proper calls.

As for code violations for cheating, as usual here in NZ we're a few years behind the cousins in the big island out West. Where we're bang up to date is to insist that kids have to wear proper competition tennis shirts for tournament matches - logos cannot be bigger than X sq cm, there cannot be more than Y logos per shirt, etc., etc. So, if you wear a "Prince" shirt which you actually won at a prior tournament (with the big "P" logo upfront), you have to turn it inside out! WTF, it ain't exactly the mens singles final at Wimbledon's Centre Court...

And you think that "not cheating a lot" is only cheating on the crucial points??? Hello??? There's not much point in cheating when you're receiving in the second game and 40-0 down (other than practising lying with a straight face?), if I'm going to cheat I'd rather save the effort for when I have a breakpoint and I'll be serving for the set next game. In many ways, if you cheat often you take the risk that an observer / umpire will catch you out, or your opponent gets wise and asks for an umpire - so, don't do it too often, just when it really matters!

Steady Eddy
07-19-2009, 08:08 PM
And you think that "not cheating a lot" is only cheating on the crucial points??? Hello??? There's not much point in cheating when you're receiving in the second game and 40-0 down (other than practising lying with a straight face?), if I'm going to cheat I'd rather save the effort for when I have a breakpoint and I'll be serving for the set next game. In many ways, if you cheat often you take the risk that an observer / umpire will catch you out, or your opponent gets wise and asks for an umpire - so, don't do it too often, just when it really matters!
You just wised up alot of the cheaters! :???:

MethodTennis
07-20-2009, 07:15 AM
My coach taught me about calling the obvious in serve out. He had coached a number of juniors that had to deal with cheaters. I've only called the obvious in serve out a few times. It always results in a very angry response, but after that the calls got much more fair.

Did this once on a forehand against a cheat felt really bad never done it since

MethodTennis
07-20-2009, 07:20 AM
What would a Umpire do if some guy started to go across the net towards the opponent ? Would you get out of the chair and get in between them ?

guy hopped the net and squared me once and no-one really cared lol

Shaolin
07-20-2009, 08:23 AM
Could you ask him, "Would Jesus call that shot out?" Then smile like you're just kidding. It might strike a chord with him.

That would be fun to do but I would sort of like to keep him as a friend/hitting partner:) Plus, the way he calls lines Im sure he would stand by the idea that Jesus would call it out if he was breakpoint down.

Good one!

Can you change your practice routines with him so you do more drill/pattern hitting and less point-playing - you can still "score" to make the drills more competitive, but you score when you hit a cone (or another target area) during the drill, so consistent accuracy gets tested and rewarded, rather than "in/out".

The other thing you can do when playing practice sets, particularly if he goes nuts when he things you gave a bad call, is to "agree to disagree". Every time you don't agree on a call, you automatically replay the point without further discussion. After all, it's a very unchristian attitude to risk a friendship for the sake of a little bust-up in a friendly hit. You can always add that there's something in the New Testament about "turning the other cheek", so you both agree to do that rather than argue. But seriously, the "turning the other cheek" replay strategy can be very good training also for both of you, in terms of learning to put a bad call or miss away, cooling down, and immediately getting on with the next point.

But when you play him in a match, do get an umpire!!!

I like the playing points with the cones idea, however I teach tennis and get so much drill stuff during the week that its really only fun for me to play actual sets/matches anymore. I think Im just going to confront him about it at some point. Im all about progression and hooking just pulls the quality of a match down.

jasonjm
07-20-2009, 10:07 AM
actually the most common kind of cheating i have found is this

you are a break down, say 2 to 1, opponent to serve

you hold , they hold, goes 3 2 opponent to serve

then instead of the next range being called, opponent decides the score is 5 to 4, him to serve, giving you both a game, but he is now serving for set....

in their mind probably not "really" cheating since they just gave you each a game.

this has happened numerous times to me, pretty painful to argue as well