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myalterego
07-20-2009, 01:45 PM
Generally, when I play tennis, I hit the ball flat. I feel myself driving through the ball and I see the ball just clearing the net. However, I hit too inconsistently on my forehand with a flat shot; I can't sustain a good rally hitting a flat forehand without the ball going into the net or out of bounds after a few hits each). I want to start hitting topspin. How should I start adjusting myself to hit topspin instead of so flat?

raffi!
07-20-2009, 01:49 PM
Wipe that windshield, my friend.

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/forehand/windshield-wiper-forehand/

"The windshield wiper forehand is an important to learn once you’ve mastered the fundamentals of the forehand. It’s a “must have” shot if you want to advance past intermediate levels of play. The windshield wiper allows you to hit both with power and spin. Thus, this type of forehand allows you to be aggressive — it lets you pressure your opponent — while still being consistent."

Thank goodness for fyb.

plasma
07-20-2009, 02:02 PM
yes fyb has a funny name, but a wiper topspin forehand is not even necessary at a high level. PTR certified pro in 5 aspects of personal skills and stroke analysis, after 15 years of coaching it irks me to hear such ignorance. Windsheild wiper is a decent shot but overrated. A modified drive is much more effective. Everyone throws away their drive looking for topspin. Istead they get girlie looking euro-strokes with no effective gripping topspin.....
vanity

raffi!
07-20-2009, 02:05 PM
Okay, I'm sure that you know what you're talking about plasma. In fact, I'm not a coach, so I know very little except for how I play--and I am only a decent player.

But the OP admits to being able to hit only a "few hits" in a rally before making some sort of error. Evidently he is not at a "high level."

If you want to help him, explain the modified drive. But there is no need to come in here and attack someone for providing a little bit of advice.

myalterego
07-20-2009, 02:21 PM
Yeah, generally after a few shots each during a rally, my forehand breaks down and loses speed and what not.

I heard about the WW forehand, but when I try it, the ball makes a very loopy arch. Should I do the WW motion faster to eliminate the loop?


And yeah, what it is a modified drive?

ednec
07-20-2009, 02:30 PM
Modify your grip to Eastern. You'll still be able to swing through the ball well and they will drop in much more.

Hitting from a closed stance allows you to strike the ball with more control as well.

myalterego
07-20-2009, 02:33 PM
I am already hitting with an Eastern grip.

masterxfob
07-20-2009, 02:34 PM
yes fyb has a funny name, but a wiper topspin forehand is not even necessary at a high level. PTR certified pro in 5 aspects of personal skills and stroke analysis, after 15 years of coaching it irks me to hear such ignorance. Windsheild wiper is a decent shot but overrated. A modified drive is much more effective. Everyone throws away their drive looking for topspin. Istead they get girlie looking euro-strokes with no effective gripping topspin.....
vanity

plasma comes through once again http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/icons/icon13.gif

anyhow, i'd start by increasing the low to high motion on your stroke.

snoopy
07-20-2009, 02:43 PM
A) what grip are you using? Consider adjusting more towards semi-western.

B) are you bending your knees enough. Bend your knees and swing low to high.

C) swing faster while still retaining a fluid motion.

Blake0
07-20-2009, 09:03 PM
Yeah, generally after a few shots each during a rally, my forehand breaks down and loses speed and what not.

I heard about the WW forehand, but when I try it, the ball makes a very loopy arch. Should I do the WW motion faster to eliminate the loop?


And yeah, what it is a modified drive?

To make a WW forehand flatter, you hit with a more horizontal swing path..so less low to high and more through the ball.

If you want to get more spin, theres a couple things you can do.

1. Change grips (move to semi western or western)
2. Change technique (develop WW, correct your technique, etc)
3. Swing faster (swinging faster might not give you more spin, but it highers the spin potential)
4. Brush up on the ball more (swing low to high)

Not sure what a modified drive is..sorry..

pvaudio
07-20-2009, 09:36 PM
Modify your grip to Eastern. You'll still be able to swing through the ball well and they will drop in much more.

Hitting from a closed stance allows you to strike the ball with more control as well.
I agree. Just not with this post. You need to switch to a more western grip, try out semi-western. There really is no need for full western anymore, although some players like it.

plasma
07-20-2009, 10:59 PM
no one has mentioned looseness or body mechnics...I am swimming in a pool full of hackers. 80% of self rated 5.5's are 4.5...96% are working on topsin, non have enough to affect the timing on more than just a 3.5 level player. Most overhit and curse themselves aloud in some absurd pro fantasy ritual, "focus!"
that's you guys...

Same reason why 4.5 level boxers don't understand the jab and try to throw power punches, thinking they are 5.5 because they hit with a 6.0..
you guys want to encourage this guy to throw away a good shot. Master x fob is a certified ***** clown hacker, I am certified professional level in skills, stroke assemsment, and several other on court creds. Working in tennis clubs for 14 years!!! listen to who you want.
I do it veeeery part time now, but I've mastered teaching tennis. We would never change a students stroke fi it was unconventional, but if they are going to lose a drive for topspin we warn them not to, unless they are 1/10 who have a natural western grip or natural extreme sw.
yes I know, Nick is pushing for sw, he is a robotmaker, talk to the hand...


Hi Raffi,
It's ok to add a topsin forehand, the OP wants to replace a drive, the backbone of a rally, with a windsheild wiper he's throwing his game out and listening to fools. THe drive if done correctly has topspin, the racquet is perpendicular to the ground and moves at a 45% angle. Even that extreme angle produces only enough spin to keep the ball in, and not to affect the other guys timing, which is why windsheild is crap, crap for your consistency, game, lower back wrist, froearm, hard rallies, manlihood...etc.
Explore keeping the racquet perpendicular and going up at a 20-45% angle, it's called a drive. Every four balls or so I might brush the forehand by loosening up and hooding the backswing a bit.
But that loose wrist style that Bolleteri teaches is a very advanced specific unique style. It's not the fundemental game. Many pros use a totally different style.

masterxfob
07-20-2009, 11:33 PM
no one has mentioned looseness or body mechnics...I am swimming in a pool full of hackers. 80% of self rated 5.5's are 4.5...96% are working on topsin, non have enough to affect the timing on more than just a 3.5 level player. Most overhit and curse themselves aloud in some absurd pro fantasy ritual, "focus!"
that's you guys...

Same reason why 4.5 level boxers don't understand the jab and try to throw power punches, thinking they are 5.5 because they hit with a 6.0..
you guys want to encourage this guy to throw away a good shot. Master x fob is a certified ***** clown hacker, I am certified professional level in skills, stroke assemsment, and several other on court creds. Working in tennis clubs for 14 years!!! listen to who you want.
I do it veeeery part time now, but I've mastered teaching tennis. We would never change a students stroke fi it was unconventional, but if they are going to lose a drive for topspin we warn them not to, unless they are 1/10 who have a natural western grip or natural extreme sw.
yes I know, Nick is pushing for sw, he is a robotmaker, talk to the hand...


Hi Raffi,
It's ok to add a topsin forehand, the OP wants to replace a drive, the backbone of a rally, with a windsheild wiper he's throwing his game out and listening to fools. THe drive if done correctly has topspin, the racquet is perpendicular to the ground and moves at a 45% angle. Even that extreme angle produces only enough spin to keep the ball in, and not to affect the other guys timing, which is why windsheild is crap, crap for your consistency, game, lower back wrist, froearm, hard rallies, manlihood...etc.
Explore keeping the racquet perpendicular and going up at a 20-45% angle, it's called a drive. Every four balls or so I might brush the forehand by loosening up and hooding the backswing a bit.
But that loose wrist style that Bolleteri teaches is a very advanced specific unique style. It's not the fundemental game. Many pros use a totally different style.

my hero. you honestly, truly have a gift. :roll:

i don't care what you claim to be, as you've never really proven anything other than your lack of common courtesy. you are perhaps the most disliked member of these forums, and your posts have very little meaning to many of us. you could actually be what you claim, but it wouldn't matter since you're such a D O U C H E that no one would care. to so easily alienate yourself from people, it must be a very sad and pathetic life that you live.

anyhow, i don't advise the use of the w/w fh and i rarely use it myself. i do however believe that using a sw grip and having a good loopy topspin shot is good for anyone under the 3.0 level. once you get a nice topspin shot with a full swing, you can start adjusting the ratio of brushing and hitting through the ball.

disclaimer: i am not an open level player, professional coach, or even a decent human being. take everything i post with a grain of salt.

raffi!
07-20-2009, 11:44 PM
my hero. you honestly, truly have a gift. :roll:

i don't care what you claim to be, as you've never really proven anything other than your lack of common courtesy. you are perhaps the most disliked member of these forums, and your posts have very little meaning to many of us. you could actually be what you claim, but it wouldn't matter since you're such a D O U C H E that no one would care. to so easily alienate yourself from people, it must be a very sad and pathetic life that you live.

anyhow, i don't advise the use of the w/w fh and i rarely use it myself. i do however believe that using a sw grip and having a good loopy topspin shot is good for anyone under the 3.0 level. once you get a nice topspin shot with a full swing, you can start adjusting the ratio of brushing and hitting through the ball.

disclaimer: i am not an open level player, professional coach, or even a decent human being. take everything i post with a grain of salt.

I agree.

Even at the level that I play, which isn't too high or anything, a heavily top-spin'd forehand with a medium-small amount of pace simply does not cut it. The WW forehand doesn't necessarily mean "enormous amounts of top-spin", I believe, because you can control the extent to which you brush up on the ball or plow through it. Essentially, to answer the question presented, you have to brush up on the ball--to whatever degree you find suits your game--to create topsin. The brush-up--regardless of how you achieve it--is what gives the ball spin. You should, however, receive or research the proper way in which to execute a forehand with topspin, whether you decide you want to use a WW or not.

nfor304
07-21-2009, 05:32 AM
I'm so sick of this Plasma wanker.

He turns every thread in health and fitness into an opportunity for himself to brag about all the **** he thinks he's the best at and tell anyone who disagrees that they're idiots.

I cannot understand why he hasn't been banned. The guy is a belligerent grade A *****hole. I feel sorry for the dude really. This must be the last place he has where he can tell people his BS stories and feel great about himself.

I just wish he would stop spewing his garbage and realize that everyone here either doesn't believe a word he says or just thinks he's a massive ******bag.

Major personality problems from this guy.

GuyClinch
07-21-2009, 11:15 AM
I don't understand most of plasma's posts. So I just skip them.

You don't need a WW to hit with topspin. Just get your racquet below the ball and swing up more then normal and you will impart topspin. Work on a "rally ball" that clears the net by like 6 feet with some topspin and you will be doing fine.. Tom Avery (a tennis guru type) likes to say get your racquet a 'foot below" for topspin. That might be an exaggeration on a low ball but its something to think about. Get your racquet below the ball and then swing up.

A good over the shoulder finish will impart a good deal of "effortless" topspin along with a decently paced ball. You want to work on hitting all kinds of different spins off your shots.

A rally ball that's 6 feet. A moonball that's 10-20 feet - and a offensive shot that just clears the net (very good for doubles).. Pros can hit all these shots on command. I cannnot. But its something to strive for. Though I have a pretty sweet topspin lob that I use a reverse forehand style for.

Pete

VaBeachTennis
07-21-2009, 11:39 AM
Yeah, generally after a few shots each during a rally, my forehand breaks down and loses speed and what not.

I heard about the WW forehand, but when I try it, the ball makes a very loopy arch. Should I do the WW motion faster to eliminate the loop?


And yeah, what it is a modified drive?

Well at least you are on your way to what you want! More top spin instead of flat. So when you hit that "loopy arch", maybe your swing path was in this direction: | When you hit flat, maybe your swing path was in this direction: ---, now try this direction: / on your swing path and see what you get.............. Experiment a little bit. Good luck.

VaBeachTennis
07-21-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't understand most of plasma's posts. So I just skip them.

You don't need a WW to hit with topspin. Just get your racquet below the ball and swing up more then normal and you will impart topspin. Work on a "rally ball" that clears the net by like 6 feet with some topspin and you will be doing fine.. Tom Avery (a tennis guru type) likes to say get your racquet a 'foot below" for topspin. That might be an exaggeration on a low ball but its something to think about. Get your racquet below the ball and then swing up.

A good over the shoulder finish will impart a good deal of "effortless" topspin along with a decently paced ball. You want to work on hitting all kinds of different spins off your shots.

A rally ball that's 6 feet. A moonball that's 10-20 feet - and a offensive shot that just clears the net (very good for doubles).. Pros can hit all these shots on command. I cannnot. But its something to strive for. Though I have a pretty sweet topspin lob that I use a reverse forehand style for.

Pete

Tom Avery teaches a very nice and simple style. If people are interested in viewing his videos, they can go to totalvid.com, get a free trial, go to the "Sports" section and then the "tennis" category, and check out Tom Avery's videos. While you are there you can also check out the Tennis Guru video, produced by Clinton Stephenson, who actually posts here. It's an excellent video for a more modern style. Samell's videos are good too, especially the Biomechanics one and the drill one. Good luck.

Power Player
07-21-2009, 12:07 PM
OP..the Eastern grip is not great for topspin. Switch to a western or Semiwestern. The next thing is to make sure you get a full shoulder turn, place your chin on your shoulder and keep your head down and on the ball. I hit with a lot of topspin. The secret is to get your whole body behind the shot, not just your arm or you will brush the ball and have no pace.

The WW is not a neccessary finish. I finish that way naturally now, but my main concern is simply to follow through. The rest develops itself.

GuyClinch
07-22-2009, 04:49 AM
^^^ I wouldn't switch grips. You can generate plenty of topspin with eastern. The OP just wants to add some constitency to his shots not become Nadal.

GuyClinch
07-22-2009, 04:55 AM
Tom Avery teaches a very nice and simple style. If people are interested in viewing his videos, they can go to totalvid.com, get a free trial, go to the "Sports" section and then the "tennis" category, and check out Tom Avery's videos. While you are there you can also check out the Tennis Guru video, produced by Clinton Stephenson, who actually posts here. It's an excellent video for a more modern style. Samell's videos are good too, especially the Biomechanics one and the drill one. Good luck.

Huh. I just might do that. Do you get to keep those videos you d/l forever?

Power Player
07-22-2009, 06:07 AM
^^^ I wouldn't switch grips. You can generate plenty of topspin with eastern. The OP just wants to add some constitency to his shots not become Nadal.

So if you use a SW grip to hit w/ topspin you are Nadal? That's a hell of a reach..lol. I hit with a guy who uses an eastern grip and topspin..it's not a consistent shot for him at all.

Now if you understand the concept of following the butt end like Federer does, then you can definitley hit w/ a lot of top. It's just a pretty advanced shot.

myalterego
07-24-2009, 08:37 AM
I've been hitting better with my flat shot it seems. I think the difference is I'm doing a bigger wind up (the C windup or whatever it's called), and I'm getting more power, which is what I believe is allowing my flat shot to travel over the net more.

I just can't seem to get the windshield wiper motion down. I'm going to try following through in a low to high motion. I'm able to hit top spin with my backhand; the low to high motion while swinging through feels much more natural when compared to my forehand.

Thanks for the help, it is much appreciated!

Power Player
07-24-2009, 10:36 AM
To do the WW, you need to make sure you are leading with the butt end of the racquet. Meaning, your wrist needs to be laid back on the racquet prep.

If you are using an eastern grip, you need to look at Federer swinging in slow motion, and watch the butt end of his stick and how it points forward during prep.

ztennis002
07-24-2009, 12:05 PM
Use an extreme western forhand you get so much topspin

aptennis91
07-25-2009, 03:50 PM
I have an eastern grip on my forehand AND hit WW forehand.
I find that the eastern grip makes me drive through the ball a lot more and I end up hitting very flat.
If I purposely try to make the ball spinny (don't know if that's the right word) it mostly sails out.
Inconsistency on forehand mostly comes from lack of practice.
Practice on the wall and make sure the shots are going over the net from DISTANCE, not 2 feet away from the wall.
Also, if your forehand is failing you, it's nice to have a low to high waist to shoulder motion blocking forehand that lands deep with some topspin. (same motion as Federer's extreme angle topspin forehand) I use that as my backup option to stay on defense if I don't feel comfortable taking over the point.

myalterego
07-25-2009, 07:39 PM
Today, I took a bucket of balls and went to the courts, practicing my shots.

I noticed that I had to get my racquet lower to the ground at a larger angle to create topspin. When I did this, my forehands looked pretty good. I'll see how this works out against an actual opponent rallying shots in-game with me tomorrow.

Thanks, guys.

myalterego
08-02-2009, 09:35 AM
Hi guys,

Today, I tried doing the WW motion with a semi-forehand grip, and it seemed to work! Now, just time for more practice...

Thanks!

VaBeachTennis
08-05-2009, 06:13 PM
Huh. I just might do that. Do you get to keep those videos you d/l forever?

No, you can either buy the dvd or sign up and view them with a license. Sorry I didn't see your question sooner.

Vg12th
08-21-2009, 12:58 PM
It seems that the OP is having good progress, hopefully you won't mind if I ask my own question here as it is very much similar in topic.
I also use an eastern grip and my shots are quite close to the net. My problem is that putting more force in my swing makes the ball cover too much distance and goes out. I was thinking of changing my grip but reading through this thread, should I simply just swing higher?

As for the moment I am playing rather conservatively and I do would like to add more power to my strokes.

GuyClinch
08-21-2009, 01:43 PM
You don't need WW to hit with topspin - you need to start your forward motion from your backswing well below the ball and swing up on the ball more. My coach was working with me on this the other day - your elbow will be pointed at the sky when you finish and your hand next to your ear.

You won't get as MUCH topspin as you do with the WW - of course but you can still get alot. Someone like Kim Clisters hits like this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AicCkXhp-c0

If you hit with someone with this swing they DO generate enough topspin to make the ball kick up. You will pull the ball down onto the court with the additional topspin..

Pete

user92626
08-21-2009, 02:21 PM
It seems that the OP is having good progress, hopefully you won't mind if I ask my own question here as it is very much similar in topic.
I also use an eastern grip and my shots are quite close to the net. My problem is that putting more force in my swing makes the ball cover too much distance and goes out. I was thinking of changing my grip but reading through this thread, should I simply just swing higher?

As for the moment I am playing rather conservatively and I do would like to add more power to my strokes.

Yes, you need to have topspin in your stroke. I know and play with so many players who hit like you.

You should change your grip to sw. If you choose to stay with eastern, at least learn Fed's swingpath. Even Fed has to move toward extreme eastern-ish and hit very much like WW. So, for us beginning the game, why not train right into sw?

It's rather easy to hit topspin. Just drop the racket a little below contact point, hit the ball squarely toward the direction where you want it to go, more out in front of body, and allow a loose follow-thru to take place. The racket either finishes on the other shoulder, bicep or around elbow -- play with it to see different effects. The follow-thru is important because it sets your mind to do a complete stroke. You should not be so conscious of how the ball is actually hit -- that's like thinking about how your feet move in a sprint which is right down dangerous.

Vg12th
08-21-2009, 09:43 PM
Thanks for the reply guys. Currently, my grip gives me winners near the service line, with the right force. However I notice that if the opponent hits a weak shot, my regular swing from the baseline will make it go out.

I'm going to try both swinging higher and the semi-western grip and feel which is more effective for me. Let's see which works better

Blake0
08-21-2009, 09:47 PM
On the balls that bounce near the service line..or closer to the net you generally should shorten up your backswing so you don't overpower it (especially the ones that are below the net). If they're high bouncing sitters (above net level by around 1-2 feet atleast), disregard what i said.

Vg12th
08-22-2009, 02:25 AM
A little update: I played earlier and tried a more pronounced low to high swing and my shots went just before the baseline. I need to experiment a little more to find out how it fares against other players.

On the same note, those who have transitioned between semi-western to eastern grip and vice versa, do you mind accounting your reason why and your experience with the new grip?

Learning a new grip will take a while to have enough skill to compare and I hope that I can get more information before starting to try out a different one.

myalterego
08-27-2009, 02:05 PM
I transitioned from eastern to semi-Western, and I get more topspin that way. Eastern feels so weird now.

I had to force myself for a few days to get used to the semi-western grip. Now, it is my natural forehand grip.

cadfael_tex
08-27-2009, 02:38 PM
As I read through this I would hate to be someone trying to learn and get a question answered on this site. Not to impugn any one person or idea but wow, just wow.

As the OP discovered, the flatter the drive, the smaller the margin for error. Topspin helps hit hard and yet give the player more consistency so at the face of it - good thing. How does one get topspin? there is one and only one answer (but many ways to get there), the string rubs against the ball from high to low.

Can you assist in getting that by changing the grip and thus the contact location and angle? Yes.

Can you change that by putting more of a 'C' swingpath? Yes - that's the way it was done for most of the history of tennis?

Can you change that by adopting a windscreen wiper swing path? Yes - that's the way ATP players predominantly do it today.

There are a lot of variables and the advice given shows that. There is no holy grail or magic bullet - what works for you?

(sorry to ramble but reading such uncivil discourse to a simple, straight forward question ****ed me off)

myalterego
08-27-2009, 07:37 PM
I do like the WW motion quite a bit when I get it to work properly. For some reason, I have this mental lapse when on a classic forehand, I don't want to swing low-to-high with a nice follow-through as often as I'd like. However, when I just drop the ball and try a classic forehand, I get a nice topspin shot with pace and a good 10 inches clearance over the net. Weird.

tailofdog
05-02-2010, 06:50 PM
I don't understand most of plasma's posts. So I just skip them.

You don't need a WW to hit with topspin. Just get your racquet below the ball and swing up more then normal and you will impart topspin. Work on a "rally ball" that clears the net by like 6 feet with some topspin and you will be doing fine.. Tom Avery (a tennis guru type) likes to say get your racquet a 'foot below" for topspin. That might be an exaggeration on a low ball but its something to think about. Get your racquet below the ball and then swing up.

A good over the shoulder finish will impart a good deal of "effortless" topspin along with a decently paced ball. You want to work on hitting all kinds of different spins off your shots.

A rally ball that's 6 feet. A moonball that's 10-20 feet - and a offensive shot that just clears the net (very good for doubles).. Pros can hit all these shots on command. I cannnot. But its something to strive for. Though I have a pretty sweet topspin lob that I use a reverse forehand style for.

Pete
I am having great results with Tom Averys way of hitting the the ball.
Easy power and depth. Swinging from the shoulder reall makes a difference