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View Full Version : serve video...comment please


trachsel
07-20-2009, 06:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-6XMnGaBBY

one think i didnt even realize until watching this is how fast i go from one serve to another, and my motion seems a bit to fast. ill try and work on that next time im on the courts.

any other comments/suggestions would be helpful...enjoy.

pvaudio
07-20-2009, 07:05 PM
Let me make my dessert and I'll watch it in about 3 minutes :)

3lowdown
07-20-2009, 07:19 PM
looks pretty good, racket is free flowing through the whole stroke. One thing i noticed though is that your right shoulder is lagging behind, and i believe that this is due to your tossing arm. Your tossing arm should be pointing straight up in the air (left shoulder up, right shoulder down), and then you quickly accelerate your right shoulder up, left shoulder down, arm, hand, racket at the ball. My $0.02

I think if you do that you will dramatically effect all the aspects of your serve.

pvaudio
07-20-2009, 07:47 PM
What the hell? Is this a warmup? You've got no pace at all, but your form SCREAMS "give me more pace". You have no racquethead speed at all! Why not? I'm not being an *******, I'm saying that straight up because to me it looks like you're purposely not swinging freely as though you're warming up serves. Slow down your motion, take a bit longer on the loading of your knees, then snap through that ball.

You're wasting so much energy in your stroke I could write a thesis on it, and I'm only saying that because it truly looks like you're CHOOSING to not hit with pace. The elements are there for a decent serve, but you're holding back. Are you holding back, or is this the best you've got?

himynameisNIKE
07-20-2009, 07:55 PM
try keeping your left arm up longer and slow your motion down a bit itll help get into a rhythm

pvaudio
07-20-2009, 07:55 PM
Also, in addition to slowing down the motion until you explode up to the ball, you MUST keep your tossing arm up. This gives you the balance to load up your legs to explode up to the ball. Otherwise, you'll have the tendency to fall forward, which I think is why you end up cutting off your racquet speed because were you to accelerate, you'd fall on your face.

trachsel
07-20-2009, 08:00 PM
One thing i noticed though is that your right shoulder is lagging behind, and i believe that this is due to your tossing arm

good point. and the reason im not putting my tossing arm up straight is because my toss is too short and rushing through the stroke

What the hell? Is this a warmup? You've got no pace at all, but your form SCREAMS "give me more pace". You have no racquethead speed at all! Why not? I'm not being an *******, I'm saying that straight up because to me it looks like you're purposely not swinging freely as though you're warming up serves. Slow down your motion, take a bit longer on the loading of your knees, then snap through that ball.

You're wasting so much energy in your stroke I could write a thesis on it, and I'm only saying that because it truly looks like you're CHOOSING to not hit with pace. The elements are there for a decent serve, but you're holding back. Are you holding back, or is this the best you've got?

wierd that you say i wasnt getting any pace because i was hitting it harder than i have in a while--most of them went in and hit the back fence without bouncing other than in the service box..

but i get what sayin with wasted motion..this partly because i woke up 10 minutes before i went out there, partly because im using my friends racket and its the first time i hit with it..and mostly because im goin through the motion WAY to fast which is making my form very sloppy

pvaudio
07-20-2009, 08:45 PM
good point. and the reason im not putting my tossing arm up straight is because my toss is too short and rushing through the stroke



wierd that you say i wasnt getting any pace because i was hitting it harder than i have in a while--most of them went in and hit the back fence without bouncing other than in the service box..

but i get what sayin with wasted motion..this partly because i woke up 10 minutes before i went out there, partly because im using my friends racket and its the first time i hit with it..and mostly because im goin through the motion WAY to fast which is making my form very sloppy
Don't make excuses, make revisions.

Oh God man, if that's harder than you've hit in a while, then when we're done with you, you'll have a missile on your hands. You look to be what, 15,16? I can't really tell since we really can't see you. Either way, try to follow these instructions, and anyone feel free to disagree with me. Get out a notecard, and seriously take notes on what people in the thread say. It's INVALUABLE for when you're out on the practice court and can't figure out why something isn't happening; just look at the card and see "ahh, keep wrist relaxed" and everything comes together again. Finally, here's my suggestions in order of necessity:

1. Go out to the court with two racquets, preferably yours and one you don't care about (your friend's would work well :D). Take a ball out to the service line, have your racquet in hand, and the spare nearby. Practice your motion with your toss, but don't hit the ball. Instead, let the ball drop to the ground while you're doing the motion, and once you find where the ball lies best in the air (should be out in front, a few inches to the right of your ear) let it hit the ground and mark that spot. Put the head of the racquet on said spot, and stand there and practice tossing until you get 50 balls land on the face of the racquet. This is going to help you get your toss consistent which is the number one thing to give you greater accuracy and pop on your serve.

2. A good serve is a series of steps blended together into one fluid motion. You have the introduction, the toss, the load, the explode and the followthrough. The intro is where you get to the line, bounce the ball, act like Nadal and pull your tights out of your *** or do whatever it is to get you ready. The toss is self explanatory. The load is a vital step that you're neglecting as it's the only time when the motion should actually slowdown considerably. You want to toss THEN load up your legs, not at the same time. You want to hold the load to build up potential energy so that you can explode with more force. The explode is where you actually hit the ball and dictate where it lands. You should have NO pain at impact. If you have any at all, you're doing something wrong. I don't care if it's a kick serve or slice serve and you think that the motion requires a twinge of pain; it doesn't. Followthrough is a vital and overlooked step. Your followthrough can determine whether or not you win or lose the point if the ball comes back. You need to practice how you will finish your serve if you want to rush the net with a S&V approach, or stay back on the baseline.

2a. The load. A proper loading requires the use of the core and leg muscles. After tossing, extend your tossing arm up to the ball, while bending your rear leg SLIGHTLY more than your front. This will allow you to keep your front shoulder higher than the rear and will give you that textbook trophy pose that people talk about. Again, keep the tossing arm up, bend the knees with the rear shoulder down. You'll know you've loaded properly (practice this) when you can go through the motion and after you've loaded and go to stand back up, you involuntarirly move forward. It's because you're loading your body to take you up AND into the court since the toss will be above your head.

2b. The explode. From your loading position, don't jump up to the ball, simply try to shift your center of gravity (your trunk) upwards to the ball. Again, practice this separartely. There is a crucial difference between exploding and jumping: jumping gives you no power. As you're going up to the ball, make sure that your body is perpendicular to the net so that you can do the next step in the explode, the shoulder turn. You don't want to be arming through the ball, rather you want to generate a good portion of the pace through rotating your shoulders while doing the actual swing. It takes a huge load off of your shoulder and gives you a substantial amount of pace. You want to imagine that your shoulders are forming an arc, with the left shoulder being the center and the right shoulder being the end of the radius. The left shoulder shouldn't be moving, so the right shoulder therefore must come over top of it from the dropped pose from the loading stage. This is only possible if you do what I said and bring your torso up to the ball.

2c. Followthrough. This is another vital step. You need to end up inside the court, not back where you started. This is an easy way to tell if you're wasting energy. You also need to be landing with your left foot first. I don't know how it's possible to land right foot first, but believe me, I've seen it. You'll end up about 3 feet or so into the court. Any more and your toss was too far out in front. The reason that's poor technique is because you do not want to be caught in no-man's land with the only option available to you being a net rush especially off a poor serve. So again, left foot first, right foot lands 3 feet inside the baseline.

That's about all I've got, so I hope it helps. If you wan tto see what I'm talking about in each step, here is a video of me serving. Go to the end where I've put in the slow-mo so that people on here could actually critique my own motion, but I guess it'll serve as a "teaching aid" in this case. Do not copy my rear shoulder drop as it isn't significant enough, but everything else is about on. Hope this helped :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FbSdunVwvw

pvaudio
07-20-2009, 08:47 PM
Also, don't listen to this video, he's just begging to give players injuries. No great servers in history have done what he's saying because it doesn't actually make physics sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bsYFra60Q0&NR=1

Double bagel
07-20-2009, 09:11 PM
The good:

From the sound of the ball hitting the back fence, it seems like you never hit the net, thus, you do a good job of keeping your eyes and chin up well through contact.

The bad:

Since you have like a 90% serve percentage (obviously I can't tell how many of them were dipping into the box), you need to up the pace a lot. It doesn't seem to me there's enough power to hold serve. I agree with pvaudio...your motion is just begging to be power-upgraded.


The ugly:

That tossing arm has to stay up a lot longer. It seems to me that you're just trying to copy Roddick's delivery. Point that tossing arm to the sky, keep it there, and imagine you're pulling yourself up to the ball.

NLBwell
07-20-2009, 09:24 PM
Actually, the second part of your motion is very good. Once you get the racket dropped behind your back and start moving up into the ball, you look pretty good. You start your motion just flailing your body in all directions and then spend your effort gathering yourself back together. Your toss is way too high and too far out in front of you. It probably doesn't feel that way because you are speeding everything up to get to the toss before it drops. If you slow down the front of your body and release the toss later, you won't have to toss the ball 8 to 10 feet over the top of your head (vs. 3 1/2 to 4 ft. minimum necessary) and try to catch up to it before it drops too far into the court. Fix the toss first - that may fix a lot of things since the money part of your motion is pretty good.

trachsel
07-20-2009, 09:37 PM
pvaudio -- thanks for the detailed post.. ya im 16. i also just made nearly a page long outline of the tips you gave so thanks alot. ive been so busy trying to get my groundstrokes back up to speed that i let my serve slip a bit so ill deffinitly be working on that a lot in the next couple months.. also, is that a good place to put the camera? (that was my first vid)

hopefully ill be able to get out there tomorrow and put those tips to work...this weekend ill probly get together with a few friends and actually play a match so i look forward to an outside view on the other aspects of my game

Thiseas
07-20-2009, 11:57 PM
Also, don't listen to this video, he's just begging to give players injuries. No great servers in history have done what he's saying because it doesn't actually make physics sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bsYFra60Q0&NR=1

I've read many stupid things in this forum that made me laugh but this one didn't make me laugh at all. It just make angry enough to post an answer.

The problem is that you giving advice as though you actually know what you are talking about and that makes you a danger.

Perhaps Sampras Phillipousis or Federer are not great servers in your eyes. That would explain your post. I suggest you open them (your eyes) and watch some videos of those players or videos of Ljubicic, Arthurs or any other player that you consider a great server for that matter.
http://tennisworld.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/27/tmf.jpg

raffi!
07-20-2009, 11:58 PM
I've read many stupid things in this forum that made me laugh but this one didn't make me laugh at all. It just make angry enough to post an answer.

The problem is that you giving advice as though you actually know what you are talking about and that makes you a danger.

Perhaps Sampras Phillipousis or Federer are not great servers in your eyes. That would explain your post. I suggest you open them (your eyes) and watch some videos of those players or videos of Ljubicic, Arthurs or any other player that you consider a great server for that matter.

I have a feeling that you misread pvaudio's post...

Awkward.

LeeD
07-21-2009, 08:47 AM
Problem with ALL you young servers who post is you don't take enough time to set, get ready, and EXPLODE into your serves.
You all just do a walkup, continuous motion that puts out maybe 75% of your potential service speed, because you don't feel the need to STOP a second before starting.
LOOK AT VIDS of pro servers. They stop all motion a second, then explode into the service rythum.

pvaudio
07-21-2009, 09:42 AM
I've read many stupid things in this forum that made me laugh but this one didn't make me laugh at all. It just make angry enough to post an answer.

The problem is that you giving advice as though you actually know what you are talking about and that makes you a danger.

Perhaps Sampras Phillipousis or Federer are not great servers in your eyes. That would explain your post. I suggest you open them (your eyes) and watch some videos of those players or videos of Ljubicic, Arthurs or any other player that you consider a great server for that matter.
http://tennisworld.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/27/tmf.jpg

I have a feeling that you misread pvaudio's post...

Awkward.
I have a feeling that you're completely correct. What I'm talking about is supinating your shoulder, NOT changing the angle of the wrist. If you bothered to watch the video, you'd see what I'm talking about, where he takes his forearm behind the plane of the shoulder. If you sit there and try it right now, you'll feel binding. Take that, add a huge amount of movement to it and then come back to me about I don't know what I'm talking about.

Sublime
07-21-2009, 10:23 AM
I agree with a lot of what people are saying, especially about there being no racket headspeed. Here are a few things that might help you and should be relatively easy to fix.

1) Move you grip down the handle so that your pinky is either off the racket or just partially on the buttcap. This will help you loosen your grip and in turn your wrist to help your racketspeed build through the stroke.

2) Keep your weight steadily moving into the court after the toss. Watch any pro server and keep your eye on their front hip (left for righties). They toss with their weight fully loaded on their back foot, but after that point their hips move steadily into the court. You see to stop around the trophy pose area and then continue into the court.

3) You're making contact a little bit too high on your racket face. Power is generated by a combination of racket head speed and hitting weight (the effective mass of the racket where it collides with the ball). Hitting weight is maximized at the balance point of the racket (which is below the string bed) and drops off as you move away from it. Racket head speed is maximized at the tip. The greatest combination of these two factors is a little above the center of the string bed. You're making contact very close to the tip of the racket.

4) Bring your hitting hand down lower during your trophy pose. This will give you a long distance to accelerate the racket and help you load your hitting shoulder better during the racket drop.

thejoe
07-23-2009, 08:07 AM
Problem with ALL you young servers who post is you don't take enough time to set, get ready, and EXPLODE into your serves.
You all just do a walkup, continuous motion that puts out maybe 75% of your potential service speed, because you don't feel the need to STOP a second before starting.
LOOK AT VIDS of pro servers. They stop all motion a second, then explode into the service rythum.

You always post this, but can you explain to me why this actually works?

Double bagel
07-23-2009, 11:53 AM
I think he means practice your serves like you'd serve in a match. Practice to get match ready, not just bash balls.

When you hurry too much you don't get to relax, and envision the positive.

prattle128
07-23-2009, 12:56 PM
Great tips, thanks guys (I think that I also have some of the same problems that the OP has, so this was very helpful to read).

raffi!
07-23-2009, 01:07 PM
Great tips, thanks guys (I think that I also have some of the same problems that the OP has, so this was very helpful to read).

I agree! Serving is seriously the bane of my existence.