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Klaus
07-20-2009, 10:07 PM
My mixed doubles partner and I entered a local tournament, which was not sponsored by the USTA. The rating system was as follows: Open, A, B C+, C, and D. no one at the tournament administration had any explanation of the rating system, so we asked at our own club which division we should enter. Since we are both 3.0 adults in 35-45 age range, we entered the "C" division.

We were shocked to meet our opponents, a father and daughter team, the girl was a junior out of the Jack Kramer Club, on the elite track, and her father had been training her since age 4.

They beat us 6-2, 7-5, and went on to win the division, which had 8 teams total.

Is this some weird anomaly? We didn't mind losing, they played well, and we almost beat them in the second set; we were ahead 5-4 at one point:cry:, but what is with this tournament? it seemed like they had been pulled from another category, as the organizers said there were 5 teams the day before the tournament, and the registration had long since expired.

Any thoughts? Stick with USTA tournaments? Any insights are most appreciated. Klaus

goober
07-21-2009, 05:41 AM
ABCD is the old system before NTRP. Given the way your tournament was set up C=3.0. A= 4.5, B=4.0 and C+=3.5

Your scores were competitive so I am not sure what you are complaining about? Maybe they were out of level slightly or maybe they were at the right level but just the upper end. Same things happen in USTA tournaments where you can get lots of self raters. Personally I would not fret over it. It is a part of playing competitive recreational tennis where people can self rate and artificial and arbitrary levels are set up. Try to enjoy the tennis and worry less about whether your opponents level is right or not. That's my 2 bits.

Klaus
07-21-2009, 09:46 AM
I guess I was unclear. Should I expect to compete against 12 year old junior girls as a 47 year old male 3.0 player with one year of experience? Is it normal for tournaments to mix the playing field like that when it's not a USTA sanctioned tournament? I have since learned that the father is USTA rated 4.0, but no worries, I held my own with him. His daughter could hit anything anywhere, and she did!

I chalk it up to good experience.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Klaus

raiden031
07-21-2009, 10:27 AM
I guess I was unclear. Should I expect to compete against 12 year old junior girls as a 47 year old male 3.0 player with one year of experience? Is it normal for tournaments to mix the playing field like that when it's not a USTA sanctioned tournament? I have since learned that the father is USTA rated 4.0, but no worries, I held my own with him. His daughter could hit anything anywhere, and she did!

I chalk it up to good experience.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Klaus

So a couple 3.0s won 7 games against an elite junior girl and 4.0 father? That sounds pretty amazing to me.

goober
07-21-2009, 10:32 AM
I guess I was unclear. Should I expect to compete against 12 year old junior girls as a 47 year old male 3.0 player with one year of experience? Is it normal for tournaments to mix the playing field like that when it's not a USTA sanctioned tournament? I have since learned that the father is USTA rated 4.0, but no worries, I held my own with him. His daughter could hit anything anywhere, and she did!

I chalk it up to good experience.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Klaus

Should you expect to compete with juniors in tennis tournaments? Typically NO for USTA tourneys with the exception of open level events and even then it is uncommon. USTA does have dubs tourneys with family members (i.e. father-son, father-daughter) but those are not very common either. In your typical 3.0 dubs USTA tourney you can definitely expect the average players to be middle age adults in my experience.

However with club tourneys, they can set up their own rules and likely don't have to have age requirements. So it will vary from club to club. Personally I don't mind playing juniors in tournament situations.

Kostas
07-21-2009, 11:01 AM
So a couple 3.0s won 7 games against an elite junior girl and 4.0 father? That sounds pretty amazing to me.

This.

lol

JRstriker12
07-21-2009, 11:05 AM
I guess I was unclear. Should I expect to compete against 12 year old junior girls as a 47 year old male 3.0 player with one year of experience? Is it normal for tournaments to mix the playing field like that when it's not a USTA sanctioned tournament? I have since learned that the father is USTA rated 4.0, but no worries, I held my own with him. His daughter could hit anything anywhere, and she did!

I chalk it up to good experience.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Klaus

Well, if it's not santioned by the USTA, the tournament organizers can construct the tourney however they feel - what's to stop them??? Thus you have the weird rating system and the father / 12 yr-old daughter mixed team.

I've played a few locally organized tourneys (mostly men's singles) and never ran up against anything too strange, though one open tourney I played seemed to match up the players to provide competative matches (to make it more fun) instead of the more traditional pairing of high-seeds/vs. lesser players so that the seeds got an easier path to the second round.

I'd say on average that, no, you wouldn't expect to play against a 12 yr-old in an unsanction touney, but overall, expect the unexpected as the rules are set by the organizers. Seems like there were no age limit rules and Mr. Tennis parent decided to push his daughter to play against adults.

If, you're up for having fun and playing whoever you get matched up with, play the unsanctioned tourneys - IMHO, they can be alot of fun.

But, if you want something more "serious" with more defined rules, rankings, etc. play USTA. I have to do some research to see if there's an age limit for NTRP tourneys.

Heck - play BOTH.

JRstriker12
07-21-2009, 11:32 AM
At least in MY USTA section, you have to be 19 or older to play NTRP tourneys.

dps.usta.com/usta_master/midatlantic/doc/content/doc_44_943.pdf -

So odds are you wouldn't run into a 12 yr-old junior in most USTA tourneys.

-BTW - If you felt you could handle the father, who is rated a 4.0, he was probably just giving your enough so that he daughter could see more of the ball. There's a big gap in level of play between 3.0 and 4.0.

Klaus
07-21-2009, 12:26 PM
Thanks for the responses. yes, we were on fire in the second set, until my partner defaulted every point but one when we were at 5-4. It took her the first set to calm down since she was late, and we were nearly defaulted because of it.

It was a fun tournament; it was just kind of weird to play against a child, who happened to be really good. The dad's serve was almost unreturnable by us, I had to cheat as he struck the ball in order to block it--the spin almost always ended up in my chest. Unbelievable (for a 3.0er)

Playing both USTA and club tournaments I guess is the way to go; getting as much experience along the way as possible.

This was only my second tournament, so thanks again for the insights.

best, Klaus

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