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View Full Version : Forehand with kicking topspin?


tennisplayer85
07-25-2009, 09:35 PM
Hey guys, quick question here. I was wondering, how would I achieve a forehand that has, (as stated above), kicking topspin? Although I have good topspin, I find that it doesn't do much damage as opposed to certain opponents I play that have the ball rise up 5-6 feet in the air as opposed to my forehand which rises only 3-4 feet in the air (roughly). Any help? Thanks!

federer_15
07-25-2009, 09:48 PM
Go from slow to fast and accelarate as much as you can to get lots of spin.

Hit higher and hit through the ball so it goes forward but still it up so you get a higher bounce.

ms87
07-25-2009, 10:06 PM
swing low to high (I mean, the racquet head should go from knee height to above your head) and leave the ground (proper loading/unloading of legs and torso).

my rally forehand clears the net by a few feet, gets to about shoulder/height height at his usual contact point and hits the fence at around 6' up (if he just doesn't hit it for whatever reason). i can kick it up a little higher than that, which i often do to test his 1hbh :)

the two aforementioned tips are the most important factors at play, as is clean contact

edit: if you want to hit a more aggressive, attacking ball (the type that jumps forward instead of jumping up), swing low to high but close the racquet face more. there will be just as much spin in the ball but the arc will be tighter (and the ball will land shorter, so you'll have to hit harder to compensate). this is best done on approach shots.

prattle128
07-25-2009, 11:25 PM
I've messed with this idea as well, and if you hit the ball in the right way, that way being the way you would hit it for a kick serve (8-2 or so), then you can develop some kick on to the forehand. I've been able to hit some weak twist on my forehand as well when striking it with a lot of spin. If you could get this down and really effective, would be excellent for inside-out forehands to kick out away from your opponent.

joe sch
07-26-2009, 04:18 AM
Bigger loop, more extreme western grip, increased wrist snap, and decrease your grip size. These are all factors that can help you get more rotations on the felts so that the topspin trajectories have more kick when they bounce. These are all defensive tactics that will also allow your opponents more time to run down your groundies, which is why Nadal has decrease the amount of this "topspin kick" in his game.

BullDogTennis
07-26-2009, 04:48 AM
if there consistently getting there forehand to kick 6 feet high, chances are there not hitting the ball very hard...

LeeD
07-26-2009, 06:42 AM
As said, really high kicks denotes slower moving ball, either with lots of spin or not. Good players can attack that ball using a low, flat, deep shot into one of your corners.
-3.5's have trouble with that ball, and if you pound over and over again, they might miss a few trying for good returns.

ms87
07-26-2009, 08:20 AM
As said, really high kicks denotes slower moving ball, either with lots of spin or not. Good players can attack that ball using a low, flat, deep shot into one of your corners.
-3.5's have trouble with that ball, and if you pound over and over again, they might miss a few trying for good returns.

I play at the Open level and my groundstrokes (particularly my forehand) are the strongest aspect of my game. I find it comical that you think a ball with lots of spin is "attackable". I guess Nadal's forehand is the slowest, most attackable ball in tennis, right? Moron.

ms87
07-26-2009, 08:23 AM
if there consistently getting there forehand to kick 6 feet high, chances are there not hitting the ball very hard...

or maybe you just dont understand how spin is used at the higher levels of the game

150mph_
07-26-2009, 08:34 AM
3-4 in the air isnt 'good' topspin...
try brushing up more and use a spin string like luxilon
i use lux and when i hit my forehand it jumps above guys heads ...
i know they're not very tall... we're all around 5'7 ish mark so +5 inches aboe their head = 6'
the topspin is considered slow because they can predict where its going to land... and be there but its tough to get a good shot at it back unless they time it super well and take it really early...

i have problems with people taking it early.. especially older gentlemen who can take the ball off the bounce and that causes me a lot of trouble.

younger guys around me usually take further back...

VaBeachTennis
07-26-2009, 01:37 PM
I play at the Open level and my groundstrokes (particularly my forehand) are the strongest aspect of my game. I find it comical that you think a ball with lots of spin is "attackable". I guess Nadal's forehand is the slowest, most attackable ball in tennis, right? Moron.

That wasn't very nice, the guy was trying to help. Why you took it so personally......................I guess nobody knows but yourself.

tennisplayer85
07-26-2009, 02:14 PM
swing low to high (I mean, the racquet head should go from knee height to above your head) and leave the ground (proper loading/unloading of legs and torso).

my rally forehand clears the net by a few feet, gets to about shoulder/height height at his usual contact point and hits the fence at around 6' up (if he just doesn't hit it for whatever reason). i can kick it up a little higher than that, which i often do to test his 1hbh :)

the two aforementioned tips are the most important factors at play, as is clean contact

edit: if you want to hit a more aggressive, attacking ball (the type that jumps forward instead of jumping up), swing low to high but close the racquet face more. there will be just as much spin in the ball but the arc will be tighter (and the ball will land shorter, so you'll have to hit harder to compensate). this is best done on approach shots.

Hmm, thanks for your tip! I completely understand what you're saying. Maybe I think its because I'm not unloading/loading my knees and torso. I am bending my knees when I hit the ball, probably just not unloading properly. Could anyone give me any tips or tricks or the ability to know if I'm doing it correctly then? (same for loading/unloading your torso)

ms87
07-26-2009, 04:39 PM
That wasn't very nice, the guy was trying to help. Why you took it so personally......................I guess nobody knows but yourself.

I see him giving bad advice to people left and right on this forum (not to mention the rest of his irritating schtick). It's one thing to offer bad advice, and another to underhandedly insult another player and discredit their advice.

MarrratSafin
07-26-2009, 05:00 PM
I see him giving bad advice to people left and right on this forum (not to mention the rest of his irritating schtick). It's one thing to offer bad advice, and another to underhandedly insult another player and discredit their advice.

I don't know about bad advices but I can agree with the insult part, he constantly underrates people, underrates shots/techniques, and here maybe he thinks he can beat Nadal's topspin with his 'flat, deep shots'.;-)

MarrratSafin
07-26-2009, 05:03 PM
That wasn't very nice, the guy was trying to help. Why you took it so personally......................I guess nobody knows but yourself.

Actually lots of people know why, if you read around the forums a bit you'll understand better...

Kevo
07-26-2009, 05:32 PM
You need a lot of racquet head speed to generate the kind of topspin where the ball will kick up and hit high on the back fence. These types of shots are very difficult to deal with since there is really no moving back and waiting for the ball to drop. You are basically forced to hit it on the rise no matter where you are.

I think you'll find that a big key is pronation of the arm. Take a look at some of the slow motion video of Fed, Nadal, or Verdasco. They hit with a straight arm and rotate the arm as they are making contact. This provides serious leverage and racquet head speed. It's very hard to be able to set up and hit that kind of shot consistently during a point, but if you can do it, you will quickly find that controlling ground rallies is a pretty common occurrence. It's very hard to hit a deep ball when you're pinned against the back fence.

For me, I don't tend to go for that big a shot typically. It tends to be a lower percentage ball for me when I am in a fast paced rally and don't have just a little more time to set up. When I have a little more I will use it as a setup shot or to change the pace and get a weak reply.

theenrighthouse
07-26-2009, 05:54 PM
One thing I haven't seen mentioned much in this thread, is that playing massive kicking topspin is also a tad dependent on the kind of player you play. If you have someone who is good at keeping the ball low with slice, you might find it hard to generate high kicking balls off of your opponent. Generally the biggest kicks you'll get is if you are playing someone where you get to hit balls between hip and shoulder height, and then attack them with aggressive windshield wiper strokes. A good windshield wiper stroke will in fact often produce not just straight top but a kind of side-kicking topsping, which is particularly obnoxious to handle for some players.

VaBeachTennis
07-26-2009, 05:55 PM
I see him giving bad advice to people left and right on this forum (not to mention the rest of his irritating schtick). It's one thing to offer bad advice, and another to underhandedly insult another player and discredit their advice.

I thought that he was just trying to help. If you feel that way, my bad. I didn't know tha you guys have a "history".

VaBeachTennis
07-26-2009, 05:56 PM
I don't know about bad advices but I can agree with the insult part, he constantly underrates people, underrates shots/techniques, and here maybe he thinks he can beat Nadal's topspin with his 'flat, deep shots'.;-)

Oooops, I mixed him up with someone else that has the same MO. my bad..........I think.

VaBeachTennis
07-26-2009, 05:59 PM
Actually lots of people know why, if you read around the forums a bit you'll understand better...

Awe man! I thought that the person who under rates and insults people had another screen name.

BullDogTennis
07-26-2009, 08:39 PM
and theres another problem with you people that say "your balls are bouncing around 6 feet" that means your hitting the ball very short. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB6EY7FxgUg nadals balls are even bouncing 6 feet. and chances are your not hitting the ball like nadal.

GeoffB
07-27-2009, 12:40 PM
As said, really high kicks denotes slower moving ball, either with lots of spin or not. Good players can attack that ball using a low, flat, deep shot into one of your corners.
-3.5's have trouble with that ball, and if you pound over and over again, they might miss a few trying for good returns.

I think there's some merit to this. Of course, considering the amount of topspin federer and nadal put on the ball, topspin is *a good thing*. But I do agree it can get out of hand.

I recently had some success reducing the amount of topspin I put on the ball. I was getting too "spinny", whisping up on the back of the ball, which created a lot of spin but cost me depth and pace, and really just ended up giving my opponent more time to get to the ball. They couldn't really punish it, but it also deprived me of the opportunity to win points, so I ended up in a lot of topspin rallies - two set matches with 6-3, 6-2 scores would last two hours.

A pro helped me hit through the ball more, but I kept the emphasis on heavy topspin. Now, instead of the whispy sound, I had good contact, a high arc, and good depth. It gave some opponents trouble. However, I good players were still able to get to the shot every time.

Finally, I started emphasizing flatter strokes *some of the time*. I noticed that the extra pace, lower arc, and penetration definitely increased my winner percentage, and my opponents often couldn't run down the ball. But, as you'd expect, my unforced error percentage did increase.

Just to put it all in context - I was a 3.5 when I started working on my strokes. I went from getting my butt kicked in 4.0 to having a narrowly winning record in 4.0. So no too bad, definitely some improvement - but ymmv at higher or lower skill levels. I think the reason my heavy topspin worked so well in the 3.5s and below is that the heavy, consistent ball simply won points for me - I didn't really *need* more penetrating strokes or winners. Higher level players had much less trouble with it.

And of course, you have to consider that top players like Nadal and Fed can hit with incredible pace, penetration, and placement even with insane rpm's on the ball from topspin.

Claudius
07-27-2009, 12:44 PM
A high kicking ball is usually fast and heavy. So no, it's not normally attackable.

LeeD
07-28-2009, 09:11 AM
Moron speaking here, me that is....
Some players get all vexed and confused when faced with high bouncing topspin balls. They move back, lean back, or try various counters to little effect.
Others don't get bothered by the high bouncing balls, and choose to attack it moving forwards, taking it lower, and using the pace to block a sidespin/underspin shot deep into the opponent's corner and move to net.
Now for sure, I don't play at Nadal's level. And also for sure, Nadal's strength is NOT his high bouncing topspin, but his ability to counter his opponent's approach shot, or his opponent's hoped for winner, by making great retreives and PASSING shots. Nadal is a counterpuncher, waiting for you to attack, so he can do his thing. If you don't attack, he WILL outlast you from the baseline, due to his speed, conditioning, strong mind, concentration, and ability to hit the ball centered and solid, even running over and over again.
For sure, his high kicking topspin forehand and backhand is no more special than many of the top 100 players in the world. His ability to back up his groundie is what makes him special.
Sure, some of my advice goes over your head quite often. That's pretty normal, I see tennis thru my eyes while you see tennis thru yours. But you know what? We both see tennis! :):)

MNPlayer
07-28-2009, 09:36 AM
Just one comment on generating topsin. The mental image I use to generate more topspin is trying to hit a more "vertical" stroke - make sure you are brushing up on the ball as much as possible and as aggressively as possible. You do not want sidespin, that means you are losing energy that could go into topspin. If you do this to an extreme, you may end up with what people call a "reverse finish" on your forehand, like Nadal often does. This is because you are swinging so vertically that the racket no longer will cross your body in the finish. I have also hit myself in the head accidentally doing this :oops:. This is the same reason that people with good kick serves often finish on the same side instead of crossing.

Over the last year, I have learned (a little bit) to consciously vary the spin I use depending on the situation. For us mere mortals, adding spin usually means giving up quite a bit of pace, so I generally try to hit flatter, or even slice on approach shots for example, to take away time from the opponent. Heavy deep spin is a great rally or neutralizing shot though.

pushing_wins
07-28-2009, 11:20 AM
make sure to jump

and rotate your body as hard as you can

push and jump off the right leg as hard as you can