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View Full Version : Advice on Forehand (slow mo video link)


dgoldman
07-26-2009, 05:10 AM
Hi. Learning the game for about a year and a half. I've taken lessons but also try to teach myself using video and comparing to online slow mo of pros. This is my first attempt of posting a video and seeking advice...don't have to be gentle though :) Any useful advice?

To me my hand doesn't look correct on the wrap and many times my palm is almost facing the sky - very common thing for me. Makes me think my swing path is more foreword and up versus across or horizontal and up but I am not sure.

Thanks!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4CJhB7uOYc

LeeD
07-26-2009, 06:39 AM
Yeah, you got the old man Eastern wrist and swing, but a modern SW grip. That lacks rackethead speed, which you need for the modern grips and topspin.
Loosen up your grip, especially your wrists, loopier longer stroke, don't lean back, and followthru after hitting the ball with some WW turnover movement of the arm, similar to the pronation of the service.
You need more rackethead speed with SW and W grips.

dgoldman
07-26-2009, 07:04 AM
Thanks.

with some WW turnover movement of the arm, similar to the pronation of the service.

Guess I should say that I use a 3 1/2 / 3 grip between SW and eastern similar to Roger F. I am trying to combine similar elements that he uses ie. the old style grips with a more modern swing path.

Is the WW turnover a conscious action or does it happen naturally from the swing path? I've heard different pieces of advice on how to help rotate the racquet: 1. Light grip that you tighten near contact 2. using the forefinger to pull up near contact 3. turning the doorknob ie. a full turn of the whole arm, not just the wrist.

I've picked up info from lots of nice places like Fuzzy yellow balls, hi-tech tennis, tv shows, instructor, etc.

LeeD
07-26-2009, 07:14 AM
WW followthru is different for different people.
Just as a service pronation is natural for some, impossible to emulate for other's, it's a personal thing.
Some players use the WW followthru only for extreme topspin shots, while other's use it for almost all topspin shots.
With your grip, maybe only employ it when you really need mega topspin.
Loosen you grip at the start of the whole swing, which usually allows more body to get the rackethead speed rather than arming thru quickly.
You only arm thru quickly when you're late for fast incoming balls.

dgoldman
07-26-2009, 07:18 AM
Here is a link to a higher ball that I have more WW rotation on without actually trying to do it. If this is what you are referring to as WW then I just need to incorporate it to lower balls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0ifJvrg0LI

dgoldman
07-26-2009, 07:24 AM
Loosen you grip at the start of the whole swing, which usually allows more body to get the rackethead speed rather than arming thru quickly.
You only arm thru quickly when you're late for fast incoming balls.

Ok. My current thinking was keeping the arm limp like pasta that is not over cooked - firm..not tight but not loose. I will try to loosen it up a bit more, the wrist to see how that works. I've been working on using the body more but it's coming along slowly.

Thanks again!

plasma
07-26-2009, 07:40 AM
really nice form, I'd extend the non dominant hand a bit more straight out before impact, other than that looks good. The fools who will try to change your playstyle haven't recently been to pro tournaments and seen that modified eastern grips are just as popular if not slightly more popular than the winsheild wiper sw forehand....
There are various playstyles in terms of forehand. Some forehands are more even and intentionally lack the ballistic whippiness of a more modern stroke...
some players are going for a powerful drive as opposed to trying to throw off the opponent timing with excess spin.

dgoldman
07-26-2009, 07:48 AM
Thank you. Nice advice and inline with my thinking. I have been working on using that non dominant arm a bit more. Getting a bit more stretch in that arm and more of a shoulder turn has been my goal. I find it amusing that I go out with getting more stretch in that arm and shoulder but after looking at it on film I find that's minimal :)

I look at the clip and say to myself a bit more stretch, deeper knee bend, better spacing, etc. I go back out and try to do those things but it comes slowly since the balls come so fast.


really nice form, I'd extend the non dominant hand a bit more straight out before impact, other than that looks good. The fools who will try to change your playstyle haven't recently been to pro tournaments and seen that modified eastern grips are just as popular if not slightly more popular than the winsheild wiper sw forehand....
There are various playstyles in terms of forehand. Some forehands are more even and intentionally lack the ballistic whippiness of a more modern stroke...
some players are going for a powerful drive as opposed to trying to throw off the opponent timing with excess spin.

Claudius
07-26-2009, 07:50 AM
Your preparation is really good, but on your ww forehand you need to hit through more and try to wrap the racquet around your chest ala Federer.

firstblud
07-26-2009, 10:20 AM
a bit off topic but what kinda camera are you using to record that video?

dgoldman
07-26-2009, 10:28 AM
It's a Casio EX-F1. Its not great at anything other than high speed video as it can shoot 300/600/1200 fps as well as 30-300 fps which is cool since you can film at 30fps and then as something is about to happen you can press a button to go into 300fps mode. The video I posted was 300fps.

pvaudio
07-26-2009, 11:41 AM
You're not generating enough torque for the WW to be useful to you. You're doing the movement, but without the full swing. You need more racquet head speed for it to be a useful stroke. As it looks now, you're just doing a motion you saw on a video. The WW motion should be a natural followthrough when you're generating a lot of torque with your body. You physically cannot do a traditional followthrough with a WW type stroke because you'll be off balance.

dgoldman
07-27-2009, 05:40 AM
The WW seems to come a bit more naturally to grips that are more SW or W. Using a modified eastern I will not be using a WW all the time but I definitely want to learn it so that it's natural part of the swing path. I've had some really solid hits that feel like i'm really torquing the ball and I assume that is what a normal WW would feel like or maybe it's just getting more extension or body into the shot. I am not sure.

You're not generating enough torque for the WW to be useful to you. You're doing the movement, but without the full swing. You need more racquet head speed for it to be a useful stroke. As it looks now, you're just doing a motion you saw on a video. The WW motion should be a natural followthrough when you're generating a lot of torque with your body. You physically cannot do a traditional followthrough with a WW type stroke because you'll be off balance.

Lsmkenpo
07-27-2009, 08:08 PM
This picture is from your second video's open stance ww forehand at contact.

Let's do a comparison to see why you are not getting the power and speed
out of the wiper forehand.

Notice the extension of the upper body,shoulder arm and open hip turn at contact of Nadal and Verdasco versus your shoulder arm and hips at contact. They are in a position of power at contact,where there is weight there is power.

Their weight is still on the back leg anchored and the front foot is off the ground allowing them to open their hips, your front leg is partially planted and slightly closed, making it hard to open.

Get your body behind the ball leverage at contact by opening up your hips, extending through the ball,turning the shoulders and rip across!!!!, you will have a natural wiper finish if you accelerate through contact.

http://i26.tinypic.com/i4ib7m.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/3005yyx.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soADAL_uGs8
http://i26.tinypic.com/yknpy.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiXIIRG38zc

krprunitennis2
07-27-2009, 08:21 PM
Unless this is just a warmup vid, I suggest keeping both knees bent throughout your stroke. I'm not really sure what it does (haha. xP) but I hear it helps you keep your balance and allows you to transfer weight more easily. Yeah, the pros don't always do that, but in my opinion, I think their fitness and all that timing and stuff lets them cheat during warming up (such as pics above).

flyinghippos101
07-27-2009, 08:50 PM
Cue bungalobill?

chrisplchs
07-27-2009, 09:30 PM
drop your racquet lower..

gzhpcu
07-27-2009, 09:50 PM
As a comparison here is a short clip of my forehand. I think I get fairly good racket speed. I try to get plenty of stretch-shorten effect on my forearm when coming forward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k13Ux73b5wA

dgoldman
07-28-2009, 05:12 AM
This picture is from your second video's open stance ww forehand at contact.

Let's do a comparison to see why you are not getting the power and speed
out of the wiper forehand.

Notice the extension of the upper body,shoulder arm and open hip turn at contact of Nadal and Verdasco versus your shoulder arm and hips at contact. They are in a position of power at contact,where there is weight there is power.

Their weight is still on the back leg anchored and the front foot is off the ground allowing them to open their hips, your front leg is partially planted and slightly closed, making it hard to open.

Get your body behind the ball leverage at contact by opening up your hips, extending through the ball,turning the shoulders and rip across!!!!, you will have a natural wiper finish if you accelerate through contact.

That is excellent advice and analysis. Your snapshot comparison clips provide a ton of visual info and are much appreciated. Implementing them on my side will be a fun. It helps put more attention of directing ones energy into the ball...it is very easy to rotate into and out of the swing but the more I look at pro clips I realize, esp federer, that all the energy and motions are right into the ball while the rest of the turning if just an aftermath.

I will have to think about how to focus more of the energy into the ball. Unfortunately I get more time to think about implementing strokes than actually practice them.

pvaudio
07-28-2009, 05:54 AM
As a comparison here is a short clip of my forehand. I think I get fairly good racket speed. I try to get plenty of stretch-shorten effect on my forearm when coming forward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k13Ux73b5wA
Well aside from the bad footwork in setting up those shots, I'm still saying that you're not generating enough torque aka, hitting through the ball enough. What you're actually doing is doing a traditional stroke and then forcing yourself to finish the swing low and on the other side. A WW followthrough again is not even thought about as it's the result of the rotation. You physically can't followthrough with the racquet up high, otherwise you'd end up falling over.

DavaiMarat
07-28-2009, 12:25 PM
As a comparison here is a short clip of my forehand. I think I get fairly good racket speed. I try to get plenty of stretch-shorten effect on my forearm when coming forward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k13Ux73b5wA

It's interesting. It seems like both of need a bit of tweaking from opposite sides of the spectrum. Dgold needs to allow his racquet to be looser and let it extend around the body. The reason being if you're stopping short like you are on the high ball dgold your actually decelerating before you hit the ball. Not hard to fix.

Gz on the other hand. Though I only saw 1 ball hit, the one your are hitting the video is way in front of you. Too far. There's no leverage just a real wristy slap. You generate alot of Raquet head speed but you could hit the ball harder (and more accurately) with a slower swing and more body leverage.

Good luck to you both and keep swinging!

Mike