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sgrv
07-28-2009, 05:02 PM
Starting a thread for posting 4.0 and above videos. It would be a great resource for people at lower levels (including me) to learn from observation.

Btw, this forum won't you search by 4.0 as it is a very short keyword. Furthermore, I couldn't find useful info on youtube.

aimr75
07-28-2009, 05:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4

Djokovicfan4life
07-28-2009, 05:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4

This video is just asking for trouble.

aimr75
07-28-2009, 05:10 PM
This video is just asking for trouble.

:)

.............

pvaudio
07-28-2009, 05:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4
LOL that is without question the greatest pushing I've ever seen.

BobFL
07-28-2009, 05:22 PM
LOL that is without question the greatest pushing I've ever seen.

Are you sure about that? How about:

Andy Murray, Ph.D. in Pushing Sciences and Chairman of Ultimate Pushing Society and Rotary Club

Gill Simon, Master of Pushing Administration and CEO of Pushing Corp.

pvaudio
07-28-2009, 05:34 PM
Are you sure about that? How about:

Andy Murray, Ph.D. in Pushing Sciences and Chairman of Ultimate Pushing Society and Rotary Club

Gill Simon, Master of Pushing Administration and CEO of Pushing Corp.

THey aren't pushers, they're counterpunchers. Pushers can't hit winners, counterpunchers can.

lawrence
07-28-2009, 05:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xB4RLZguN4

i dont mean to intrude here but surely they cant be the #1 4.0 players
i was playing with some 3.5 ladies last night and their strokes looked like they had more pace than that

Double bagel
07-28-2009, 05:43 PM
#1 4.0's where...Wyoming? North Dakota?

WBF
07-28-2009, 06:19 PM
Looks like a 4.0 to me. Let's see some videos of some verifiable 4.0 players before you clueless folk start acting incredulous.

Claudius
07-28-2009, 06:33 PM
I think it's safe to say that we are all befuddled as to how those guys are legit 4.0 players. You'd think 4.0 players would generate good racquet head speed.
But from the videos, the term "racquet head speed" shouldn't come into play when describing their games.


But again, NTRP ratings are based on match results, so if those guys can compete at that level, they are legit 4.0s.


Now here's a 4.5 who looks legit on video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAzzulyqrWw

damazing
07-28-2009, 06:56 PM
The entire list of Tennis Store Playtester videos are a hoot to watch. Especially this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3sfWDkIaw&feature=related

I especially like when they flash ground strokes and show him hit several nice forehands then totally misfire on a backhand.

pvaudio
07-28-2009, 08:05 PM
I think it's safe to say that we are all befuddled as to how those guys are legit 4.0 players. You'd think 4.0 players would generate good racquet head speed.
But from the videos, the term "racquet head speed" shouldn't come into play when describing their games.


But again, NTRP ratings are based on match results, so if those guys can compete at that level, they are legit 4.0s.


Now here's a 4.5 who looks legit on video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAzzulyqrWw
I really hope you're joking. He MIGHT be a 4.0, even then, I'd put him at 3.5. Standing in the middle of the court hitting slow rally balls isn't difficult. His serve would be eaten alive by real 4.5 men, and were he to get any volleys with any pace, his cutting motion would dump that ball into the net like my stomach vs. the porcelain after eating KFC.

pvaudio
07-28-2009, 08:06 PM
The entire list of Tennis Store Playtester videos are a hoot to watch. Especially this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3sfWDkIaw&feature=related

I especially like when they flash ground strokes and show him hit several nice forehands then totally misfire on a backhand.
Ahaha I actually loled at the first serve that guy took that was just floating AND it was 10 feet out. Please, spare me. Inconsistent? Moderate pace? What the hell is substantial pace?

chrisdaniel
07-28-2009, 10:37 PM
everyone and there opinions on ratings. here is mine. On that first video, that is 4.0. You all act like 4.0 is supposed to look like Roger or Andre. This Racquet head speed talk is stupid. I play 4.0 players and 4.5 players. Sometimes you can win just blocking the ball back. You think that guy can't whack the ball hard if he wants ? I bet he can, but I bet he does not do it much in a match. At the 4.0 level, while players can look very impressive, unforced errors are s till very common. So his style of play can be tough to beat. It's VERY hard to smack floating balls for winners time and time again for 4.0.

Dgpsx7
07-28-2009, 10:53 PM
can anyone post a real video of a 4.0. I am trying to guess what I am, I think I am a 4.0 but watching the players in those videos makes me nauseous.

prattle128
07-29-2009, 01:09 AM
can anyone post a real video of a 4.0. I am trying to guess what I am, I think I am a 4.0 but watching the players in those videos makes me nauseous.

You can try your best to compare, but the only real way of knowing exactly what your level is, is to go out and play tournaments and then see what your results are.

Ano
07-29-2009, 01:30 AM
I rate myself a 4.0. I think that guy (the guy in post # 2) is around 3.5

If I attack his (the guy in post #2) backhand and come to the net all the time, I honestly think I could beat him easily.

Below are the link to some of my video ( I am the server in the videos):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm8hsNIK9n8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKQ7NJggSxA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yey0i4KRJro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zitj5GG3eU0

Team_Volkl
07-29-2009, 01:41 AM
I think a lot of the videos that have been posted are in fact about the correct NTRP rating.

I think a lot of you guys are way too quick to judge. Have you seen these player's complete game? You're only watching a small fragment of the total player.

More importantly, not only are you watching a small fragment of the total player, but you're not watching a competitive match of the person playing.

Someone give us a 3-5 minute video of someone playing a match and I'll be able to evaluate their true NTRP rating about a million times easier than these little irrelevant snippets.

And even more importantly than all of what I said is this...

NTRP ratings aren't based on beautiful, Roger Federer-like majestic strokes. They're based on winning and winning alone. Someone with beautiful strokes and footwork could get demolished by a strong mental player with raw, gritty strokes. Or vice-versa, or whatever.

I'm sure most of you folks after playing some of these guys in these videos would have a different story to tell in a one on one match. For better or worse, I don't know, but different nonetheless.

Djokovicfan4life
07-29-2009, 01:57 AM
Don't know what fairy-tale world you're livin' in, but here in Tucson, those cats are 3.5 LOL!

You must be one of the dudes in the video.

Uh, no. I think it's safe to say that he's probably at the highest level of anybody posting in this thread.

I warned you about that vid, Aimr75.

Ano
07-29-2009, 03:34 AM
You guys are 4.0

Thanks for confirming that.

I rate myself and my opponent in my videos a 4.0. I am a serve & volleyer, a chip & charger, while my opponent is a baseliner, but we always play fairly even. Usually the score was 7-6, or 7-5 or 6-4, no matter who won.

When I wrote "that guy is around 3.5" (post # 19), I was reffering to the guy in the video on post # 2. I honestly think I could beat the guy in the video on post number 2.

I have edited my post #19.

nfor304
07-29-2009, 03:44 AM
100.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZRQEtAyiTM

Ano
07-29-2009, 03:56 AM
The entire list of Tennis Store Playtester videos are a hoot to watch. Especially this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3sfWDkIaw&feature=related

I especially like when they flash ground strokes and show him hit several nice forehands then totally misfire on a backhand.

Sorry, the guy in that video is not a 3.5. Not even close.

GuyClinch
07-29-2009, 05:37 AM
I think that guy is a 3.5. Tennis board raters never think anyone is their stated level. League 4.0 guys are not 4.0 and so on. It's hilarious.

A few wild serves and a backhand shank don't make him 2.5. He hits a pretty nice forehand with some pace - he has some pop on his serve for a guy so small.

One thing I notice in the "rated down" players is that they don't have a loop takeback. The straight back low take back seems to earn very low ratings from posters..

Ambivalent
07-29-2009, 06:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymUFbMJJMx8

Ambivalent
07-29-2009, 06:37 AM
Sorry, the guy in that video is not a 3.5. Not even close.

I think you guys are 3.5.
Minimal racquet speed, improper form on the volley, groundstrokes landing in the middle of the service boxes, etc. Just my two cents, don't get offended.

nytennisaddict
07-29-2009, 06:49 AM
I think a lot of the videos that have been posted are in fact about the correct NTRP rating.

I think a lot of you guys are way too quick to judge. Have you seen these player's complete game? You're only watching a small fragment of the total player.

More importantly, not only are you watching a small fragment of the total player, but you're not watching a competitive match of the person playing.

Someone give us a 3-5 minute video of someone playing a match and I'll be able to evaluate their true NTRP rating about a million times easier than these little irrelevant snippets.

And even more importantly than all of what I said is this...

NTRP ratings aren't based on beautiful, Roger Federer-like majestic strokes. They're based on winning and winning alone. Someone with beautiful strokes and footwork could get demolished by a strong mental player with raw, gritty strokes. Or vice-versa, or whatever.

I'm sure most of you folks after playing some of these guys in these videos would have a different story to tell in a one on one match. For better or worse, I don't know, but different nonetheless.
I agree with everything you've said, and would like to add that even watching a competitive video clip might not be enough especially if person A is playing someone who naturally (or is able to) hits the ball out of person A's strike zone (eg. Santoro vs. Safin)

I need to get my vid up here... I'm curious how many 3.5 ratings I'd get :P

Oh yeah, and in the end, who cares about ratings,... it's how I do in tourneys (Open or Age based) that really matter to me - and so far, not that great :(

pvaudio
07-29-2009, 07:01 AM
Yeah...thats why my education was free because of tennis...what about you?

Bwahahahaha you're just another internet know-it-all. I bet you couldn't even win a 3.5 tournament, let alone give any pertinent advice about this sport. You're just another dime a dozen little man trying to be a big man. You and pvaudio should hook up...

How do you find the time to post so many thousands of posts if you're so good!? BWahahahahaha...

EDIT: I always find it hilarious that "wunderkinds" like the 19 year old Djokfan4life are so eager to be a coach, to always dole out advice to far superior players, like you're some sort of elixir for everybody's tennis problems...but yet you never ask any questions yourself, EVER, to seek advice...to maybe, just ONCE, figure out any irregularities to your OWN game, LMAO...EVER!! You're one of the biggest chumps on TT dude...and you know it...Mr. 19 year old know it all. Out of all of you're thouands of posts...you couldn't seek advice ONCE? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Just one time, in your 4,000 posts loser, ask somebody for advice Mr. Perfect LMAO!!!! You know you suck...Mr. 19 year old tennis genius.

Don't be so quick to dismiss others on this forum just because you're a talentless, lonely, couldn't rally to save your life, internet ****face.

The reality is, some people on this board actually DO coach for a living, got a college education, are ACTUALLY immersed in tennis for a living, and know what they're talking about.
Excuse me? Who the **** are you? Do I know you?

MNPlayer
07-29-2009, 07:04 AM
Well, I might regret this, but here are some videos from my lessons. These are not match play, but its all I got right now.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jans0035&search_type=&aq=f

I know my level pretty well because I have played a lot of league tennis. I'm presently rated 3.5 but hardly ever lose at that level and have been bumped up twice last season (ESR and EOY) before appealing down. This year I had a winning record (11-6) at 4.0 league doubles. So I'm a strong 3.5 to middling 4.0 which sounds funny, but I promise you there is a big overlap. My doubles is a bit stronger than singles - I can play competitively with almost any 4.0 in doubles but the best 4.0s kick my butt in singles.

pvaudio
07-29-2009, 07:10 AM
Well, I might regret this, but here are some videos from my lessons. These are not match play, but its all I got right now.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jans0035&search_type=&aq=f

I know my level pretty well because I have played a lot of league tennis. I'm presently rated 3.5 but hardly ever lose at that level and have been bumped up twice last season (ESR and EOY) before appealing down. This year I had a winning record (11-6) at 4.0 league doubles. So I'm a strong 3.5 to middling 4.0 which sounds funny, but I promise you there is a big overlap. My doubles is a bit stronger than singles - I can play competitively with almost any 4.0 in doubles but the best 4.0s kick my butt in singles.I would say you're at 3.5. Only reason not a 4.0 is during the video of your game, your serve return was weak off of a pretty weak serve, and you stood flat footed while your opponent hit his approach.

pvaudio
07-29-2009, 07:11 AM
And double bagel, if you bothered to take your mouth off your own dick for a second, you'd see that my very first post on this website was a thread asking for advice.

MNPlayer
07-29-2009, 07:26 AM
I would say you're at 3.5. Only reason not a 4.0 is during the video of your game, your serve return was weak off of a pretty weak serve, and you stood flat footed while your opponent hit his approach.

Did you read my post at all? I know my rating, assuming results count at all.
I guess my winning record at USTA 4.0 league doesn't count? I did lose one match playing #1 singles on a 3.5 team (record of 13-1) in the last two seasons, so I guess you have a point. I'd rather have the results than your rating though.

MNPlayer
07-29-2009, 07:43 AM
I would say you're at 3.5. Only reason not a 4.0 is during the video of your game, your serve return was weak off of a pretty weak serve, and you stood flat footed while your opponent hit his approach.

By the way, I agree with your criticism of my play. I've been working on better returns and not being flat footed, etc. If you see the newer "volley" video, the main thing I was trying to correct in the 2nd video was better movement, staying lower and splitting. When I watched the 1st volleys it was quite obvious that my movement is not so good. Those problems are much more apparent when I volley since there is so much less time.

If anybody has other points to make, I would like to hear those too, although I don't know if this is the thread for it. My original reason for posting was just as a reference point since I know my NTRP from playing so much USTA tennis.

Dgpsx7
07-29-2009, 07:45 AM
I think a lot of the videos that have been posted are in fact about the correct NTRP rating.

I think a lot of you guys are way too quick to judge. Have you seen these player's complete game? You're only watching a small fragment of the total player.

More importantly, not only are you watching a small fragment of the total player, but you're not watching a competitive match of the person playing.

Someone give us a 3-5 minute video of someone playing a match and I'll be able to evaluate their true NTRP rating about a million times easier than these little irrelevant snippets.

And even more importantly than all of what I said is this...

NTRP ratings aren't based on beautiful, Roger Federer-like majestic strokes. They're based on winning and winning alone. Someone with beautiful strokes and footwork could get demolished by a strong mental player with raw, gritty strokes. Or vice-versa, or whatever.

I'm sure most of you folks after playing some of these guys in these videos would have a different story to tell in a one on one match. For better or worse, I don't know, but different nonetheless.


so does that mean I am a 4.0 if I beat 4.0 players although I am a baseliner and have abolutely no net game. Also my serve may be as fast as other 4.0 players but it does not have correct or traditional form. I am a lefty and I do a lot of things differently.

Djokovicfan4life
07-29-2009, 08:53 AM
Yeah...thats why my education was free because of tennis...what about you?

Bwahahahaha you're just another internet know-it-all. I bet you couldn't even win a 3.5 tournament, let alone give any pertinent advice about this sport. You're just another dime a dozen little man trying to be a big man. You and pvaudio should hook up...

How do you find the time to post so many thousands of posts if you're so good!? BWahahahahaha...

EDIT: I always find it hilarious that "wunderkinds" like the 19 year old Djokfan4life are so eager to be a coach, to always dole out advice to far superior players, like you're some sort of elixir for everybody's tennis problems...but yet you never ask any questions yourself, EVER, to seek advice...to maybe, just ONCE, figure out any irregularities to your OWN game, LMAO...EVER!! You're one of the biggest chumps on TT dude...and you know it...Mr. 19 year old know it all. Out of all of you're thouands of posts...you couldn't seek advice ONCE? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Just one time, in your 4,000 posts loser, ask somebody for advice Mr. Perfect LMAO!!!! You know you suck...Mr. 19 year old tennis genius.

Don't be so quick to dismiss others on this forum just because you're a talentless, lonely, couldn't rally to save your life, internet ****face.

The reality is, some people on this board actually DO coach for a living, got a college education, are ACTUALLY immersed in tennis for a living, and know what they're talking about.

Hmmm. Don't know what brought this on. All I said was WBF is a good player who knows his stuff. Don't remember ever saying I was good.

Bungalo Bill
07-29-2009, 10:02 AM
One of these days, I would like to meet some of you and head to a tennis event to watch.

Places like Indian Wells. Maybe John Yandell can meet us there and you all can meet him as well.

I think it would be real cool to put a face to a name on the boards.

Many of you put a lot of time and effort into this great sport of ours and your approach to the game is similar to mine, no nonsense.

It would be fun to hit some balls or hang out at a social gathering like a pub or something and have fun.

VaBeachTennis
07-29-2009, 10:18 AM
i dont mean to intrude here but surely they cant be the #1 4.0 players
i was playing with some 3.5 ladies last night and their strokes looked like they had more pace than that

Maybe it's the camera or camera angle. The one guy in the beginning does look like he's using a Continental grip on his forehand. Also don't forget that this is a match situation and maybe they are trying to play within their game instead of making a bunch UE's and losing.

VaBeachTennis
07-29-2009, 10:25 AM
I rate myself a 4.0. I think that guy (the guy in post # 2) is around 3.5

If I attack his (the guy in post #2) backhand and come to the net all the time, I honestly think I could beat him easily.

Below are the link to some of my video ( I am the server in the videos):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm8hsNIK9n8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKQ7NJggSxA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yey0i4KRJro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zitj5GG3eU0

Are those videos from playing a match in a tournament or are they playing points out with your hitting partner?

nytennisaddict
07-29-2009, 10:32 AM
i dont mean to intrude here but surely they cant be the #1 4.0 players
i was playing with some 3.5 ladies last night and their strokes looked like they had more pace than that
It's interesting that folks (and this is not the first time I've heard this, and I used to think this myself), think that pace is the metric used to determine NTRP rating... really placement and general ball control should be the metric. Certainly at the 5.0 level and up, players hit the ball with placement and pace, but at the 3.5/4.0 levels, it's easier to beat a hard hitter who's ball that lands around the service line the majority of the time, than to beat a pusher/moonballer who's ball lands ~4ft from the baseline the majority of the time.

There's one 4.5 pusher that I know (computer rated) whose serve is at the 3.5 level in terms of pace (and stroke mechanics - but somehow places the ball exceptionally well), groundstrokes look like pathetic pokes that catapault the ball high/deep into the air, and I really love/hate playing him because he's extremely fit and gets alot of balls back (and usually in a place/height that makes me uncomfortable swinging away - deep in the court, or very short angle). He's a great person to practice against (challenges your footwork, patience, etc....), but really makes you look silly if you lose to him (usually followed by the, "eww, you lost to him" comments).

goran_ace
07-29-2009, 10:45 AM
so does that mean I am a 4.0 if I beat 4.0 players although I am a baseliner and have abolutely no net game. Also my serve may be as fast as other 4.0 players but it does not have correct or traditional form. I am a lefty and I do a lot of things differently.

I would say you should be playing 4.0 then. I'll take match results over form or rating guidelines anyday.

VaBeachTennis
07-29-2009, 10:48 AM
Well, I might regret this, but here are some videos from my lessons. These are not match play, but its all I got right now.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jans0035&search_type=&aq=f

I know my level pretty well because I have played a lot of league tennis. I'm presently rated 3.5 but hardly ever lose at that level and have been bumped up twice last season (ESR and EOY) before appealing down. This year I had a winning record (11-6) at 4.0 league doubles. So I'm a strong 3.5 to middling 4.0 which sounds funny, but I promise you there is a big overlap. My doubles is a bit stronger than singles - I can play competitively with almost any 4.0 in doubles but the best 4.0s kick my butt in singles.

Nice videos man.

StuckInMalibu
07-29-2009, 10:50 AM
Well, I might regret this, but here are some videos from my lessons. These are not match play, but its all I got right now.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jans0035&search_type=&aq=f

I know my level pretty well because I have played a lot of league tennis. I'm presently rated 3.5

Just to clarify: You= red shorts, Coach=black shorts?

What camera did you use? Did you use a tripod? I've been wanting to get my footage up, but my current camera is ancient.

Hrandyrko
07-29-2009, 10:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcffxVaSCWY&feature=related

MNPlayer
07-29-2009, 11:26 AM
Just to clarify: You= red shorts, Coach=black shorts?

What camera did you use? Did you use a tripod? I've been wanting to get my footage up, but my current camera is ancient.

Yes, I am in the red shorts.

I bought a Flip HD digital camera a little while back for $200 and have been very happy with it. It is small enough to carry around in my tennis bag at all times. I also bought a little mini tripod that works with it. The only problem with recording tennis is getting a wide enough field of view, but that would be the same with any camera I suppose.

WBF
07-29-2009, 03:05 PM
It's interesting that folks (and this is not the first time I've heard this, and I used to think this myself), think that pace is the metric used to determine NTRP rating... really placement and general ball control should be the metric. Certainly at the 5.0 level and up, players hit the ball with placement and pace, but at the 3.5/4.0 levels, it's easier to beat a hard hitter who's ball that lands around the service line the majority of the time, than to beat a pusher/moonballer who's ball lands ~4ft from the baseline the majority of the time.


Good point. You can actually extend that upward a good bit. In my experience, pace can be downplayed as a factor all the way up to 5.5. Maybe even higher, not much experience or knowledge beyond that point.

Anyhow. I've seen older former pro's and similar players with awful-looking strokes walk all over D1 kids and cocky players who expected quick and easy wins. It should also be noted that it can be difficult to determine pace and/or spin in these videos.

damazing
07-29-2009, 03:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBxKYfrs_9c&feature=related

This one was pretty good to watch, although some of the camera angles didn't work for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMipmdYHQqI&feature=related

I liked this one since it was match play.

Djokovicfan4life
07-29-2009, 03:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBxKYfrs_9c&feature=related

This one was pretty good to watch, although some of the camera angles didn't work for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMipmdYHQqI&feature=related

I liked this one since it was match play.

Mariusz has a great serve and backhand. His down the line backhands were amazing.

Ano
07-29-2009, 05:52 PM
I think you guys are 3.5.
Minimal racquet speed, improper form on the volley, groundstrokes landing in the middle of the service boxes, etc. Just my two cents, don't get offended.

Don't worry, I am not offended at all.

Ano
07-29-2009, 05:55 PM
Are those videos from playing a match in a tournament or are they playing points out with your hitting partner?

The underlined is the answer.

thejackal
07-29-2009, 06:02 PM
a couple of mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliGfNPrEW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE_6fgWXEBM

scraps234
07-29-2009, 06:09 PM
I think you guys are 3.5.
Minimal racquet speed, improper form on the volley, groundstrokes landing in the middle of the service boxes, etc. Just my two cents, don't get offended. sorry but i have to agree and go with the fact that they are really 4.0 but they barely made 4.0

scraps234
07-29-2009, 06:12 PM
a couple of mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliGfNPrEW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE_6fgWXEBM


yeah thats about right for a 4.0 i think...

thejackal
07-29-2009, 06:27 PM
yeah thats about right for a 4.0 i think...

aww man thanks. I just started playing last week after watching a couple of tennis clips on youtube. maybe next week I'll be 4.5!

aptennis91
07-29-2009, 07:12 PM
NTRP ratings are by results, not how flashy one looks.
I'm sure I could fool someone into thinking I'm a 4.5 while rallying.
However, I rarely play actual matches so my results suffer from lack of experience.
I don't know if I can even beat a legit 3.5.

Ano
07-29-2009, 07:28 PM
A bit off topic, what is the NTRP of a guy who have won Grand Slam Doubles Junior Category? Is he around 6.0?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Rungkat

nytennisaddict
07-29-2009, 07:31 PM
NTRP ratings are by results, not how flashy one looks.
I'm sure I could fool someone into thinking I'm a 4.5 while rallying.
However, I rarely play actual matches so my results suffer from lack of experience.
I don't know if I can even beat a legit 3.5.
Actually that reminds me of a former Davis cup player I played in an Open tourney... I'm only a 4.5, and he's got to be at least a 6.0-6.5 based on the USTA guideline for self-ratings for players with playing experience. Anyway, while warming up this guy was putting the ball right in my strike zone every time, allowing me to smack the back and get into a rhythm. I'd imagine that if you were an outsider looking at us play, you'd think we were evenly matched high level players (5.0+). Well as soon as the match started, all those balls that were "right in my strike zone", were now all "out of my strike zone", and I ended up losing rather quickly 6-1, 6-0, and I don't think he broke a sweat (well maybe a little since he jumped rope for 10 min before the match!)

Djokovicfan4life
07-29-2009, 07:35 PM
a couple of mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliGfNPrEW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE_6fgWXEBM

Holy windage, Batman!

ascdga
07-29-2009, 08:49 PM
Some casual doubles points and lazy singles and rallies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIaJLo3jdIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA_QYXowYRM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v95WxssG68

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgAcHH_x3oc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o3Mu3iz8u0&feature=related

TonLars
07-29-2009, 08:57 PM
If you can push consistently and move well theres no doubt you can be successful at 4.0 singles. People play different styles.

raiden031
07-29-2009, 09:18 PM
I have seen first hand that there are computer-rated 4.0 players who could easily be confused for 3.0s because of their ugly strokes and style of play. The bottom line though is they have great defensive skills when they play against a 3.5 who thinks he's a badass and then they bagel him.

StuckInMalibu
07-29-2009, 09:41 PM
I have seen first hand that there are computer-rated 4.0 players who could easily be confused for 3.0s because of their ugly strokes and style of play. The bottom line though is they have great defensive skills when they play against a 3.5 who thinks he's a badass and then they bagel him.

Could the issue be a deficiency in tennis education? I learned tennis from the bottom-up: meaning I developed each stroke separately before I was taught how to put them together in a match. Some players seem the grasp the bigger picture and develop strategies for effectively using their "ugly strokes and style of play" to beat players with prettier strokes.

Should coaches teach the other way? Start with the complex ideas (such as defense vs. offense, court coverage, etc.) before moving into the specifics parts of the ideas (such as when and how to hit a forehand)?

Of course, the problem could just be the player.

thejackal
07-29-2009, 10:33 PM
Actually that reminds me of a former Davis cup player I played in an Open tourney... I'm only a 4.5, and he's got to be at least a 6.0-6.5 based on the USTA guideline for self-ratings for players with playing experience. Anyway, while warming up this guy was putting the ball right in my strike zone every time, allowing me to smack the back and get into a rhythm. I'd imagine that if you were an outsider looking at us play, you'd think we were evenly matched high level players (5.0+). Well as soon as the match started, all those balls that were "right in my strike zone", were now all "out of my strike zone", and I ended up losing rather quickly 6-1, 6-0, and I don't think he broke a sweat (well maybe a little since he jumped rope for 10 min before the match!)

I second that. the first open tournament I played this summer I drew a guy who's ranked in the 110s nationally in D1. the warmup went great, the match not so great. The first point I won in the whole match was maybe in the 3rd game when he came to net on a second serve and I absolutely put everything into a forehand that he netted. Held my serve once when he mishit 2 returns and dumped one long.

aimr75
07-29-2009, 11:30 PM
I at times play out points with a coach who plays high level comp (no ntrp in australia but would probably be equivalent 5.5).. its embarrassing how easily he beats me.. i always feel like im rarely in control of the point.. I hit fairly decently with him not playing points, but forget about it once it gets competitive

krprunitennis2
07-29-2009, 11:34 PM
Here are a couple of videos of me and my friends:

Do these qualify as 4.0?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GauZ9xtUpUQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taBI7REiWx8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdTeUIKFQII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcsrDxqGmX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZtCqWDiAsE

Gonna take some videos of points where the camera is behind us today, hopefully.

ZPTennis
07-30-2009, 04:25 AM
I rate myself a 4.0. I think that guy (the guy in post # 2) is around 3.5

If I attack his (the guy in post #2) backhand and come to the net all the time, I honestly think I could beat him easily.

Below are the link to some of my video ( I am the server in the videos):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm8hsNIK9n8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKQ7NJggSxA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yey0i4KRJro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zitj5GG3eU0


Hey Ano,

Nice angle on that last kick serve clip. :)

raiden031
07-30-2009, 08:01 AM
Could the issue be a deficiency in tennis education? I learned tennis from the bottom-up: meaning I developed each stroke separately before I was taught how to put them together in a match. Some players seem the grasp the bigger picture and develop strategies for effectively using their "ugly strokes and style of play" to beat players with prettier strokes.

Should coaches teach the other way? Start with the complex ideas (such as defense vs. offense, court coverage, etc.) before moving into the specifics parts of the ideas (such as when and how to hit a forehand)?

Of course, the problem could just be the player.

Absolutely not. The best way to learn any sport is to start with the basic fundamentals and then learn to apply those into competition.

I spent 5 years playing tennis casually as a weekend warrior, developing only by feel and playing experience. I remained a 3.0 during this entire time, despite being young, fit, and athletic. Then I discovered USTA and started studying the game and developing the fundamental strokes and within 2 years I advanced to a low 4.0.

When you see a strong 3.5 or even 4.0 with ugly/pusher strokes, I would bet more often than not we are looking at a player with years if not decades of match experience that has gotten them to that level, despite massive deficiencies in their strokes. There are strong 3.5 players who have probably spent 10+ years and far more hours on the court than I have, and they may be far smarter than me strategically, yet I can beat them because I spent time on the fundamentals. So even playing a dumb mindless game, I'm still able to beat them because my strokes allow me to hit more effective shots more consistently.

hyogen
07-30-2009, 08:33 AM
a couple of mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliGfNPrEW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE_6fgWXEBM

i think your groundstrokes are higher than 4.0. maybe your consistency and serve keep you at 4.0 level.. you have some nice form and good racquet speed and very consistent motion.

I think you could easily bump yourself up a notch or two with more practice/training.

thejackal
07-30-2009, 08:53 AM
i think your groundstrokes are higher than 4.0. maybe your consistency and serve keep you at 4.0 level.. you have some nice form and good racquet speed and very consistent motion.

I think you could easily bump yourself up a notch or two with more practice/training.

haha I guess I must've misread the intention of the thread. I made the tryouts for a 4.5 league this summer at the tennis center where the Roger's Cup will be played, but my regular hitting partner made the 5.0+ league instead, and carpooling with him was the only way I could go to there. So I guess I am somewhat in between both levels. Played a couple of Opens la few weeks ago and got thrashed by 6.0s

plowmanjoe
07-30-2009, 08:55 AM
haha I guess I must've misread the intention of the thread. I made the tryouts for a 4.5 league this summer at the tennis center where the Roger's Cup will be played, but my regular hitting partner made the 5.0+ league instead, and carpooling with him was the only way I could go to there. So I guess I am somewhat in between both levels. Played a couple of Opens la few weeks ago and got thrashed by 6.0s

it says 4.0 and above

hyogen
07-30-2009, 09:09 AM
haha I guess I must've misread the intention of the thread. I made the tryouts for a 4.5 league this summer at the tennis center where the Roger's Cup will be played, but my regular hitting partner made the 5.0+ league instead, and carpooling with him was the only way I could go to there. So I guess I am somewhat in between both levels. Played a couple of Opens la few weeks ago and got thrashed by 6.0s

ah i see i see. i thought you were one of those modest raters. a lot of the ppl around here seem to try to down rate inferior players, just so they'll have more padding between their rating...

bungalo bill has said i'm a 2.5, but personally i think i could hang in a 4.0 league and i can have a rousing rally with "4.5" players. I've held my serve up pretty decently against a rated 5.0 player at my club...(3-6...his serves were pretty tough for me to handle though... huge kickers to the body) anyway, if anyone wants to see my vids, www.youtube.com/hyogen82 the main video was about 6 months ago. I've improved with my consistency by switching to a less heavy racquet recently and becoming more physically fit.

plowmanjoe
07-30-2009, 09:12 AM
ah i see i see. i thought you were one of those modest raters. a lot of the ppl around here seem to try to down rate inferior players, just so they'll have more padding between their rating...

bungalo bill has said i'm a 2.5, but personally i think i could hang in a 4.0 league and i can have a rousing rally with "4.5" players. I've held my serve up pretty decently against a rated 5.0 player at my club...(3-6...his serves were pretty tough for me to handle though... huge kickers to the body) anyway, if anyone wants to see my vids, www.youtube.com/hyogen82 the main video was about 6 months ago. I've improved with my consistency by switching to a less heavy racquet recently and becoming more physically fit.

i'd say you are a 3.5-4.0 depending on your matchplay.

SlapShot
07-30-2009, 09:26 AM
I would say you're at 3.5. Only reason not a 4.0 is during the video of your game, your serve return was weak off of a pretty weak serve, and you stood flat footed while your opponent hit his approach.

I've played quite a bit with MNPlayer, and can offer a bit of insight that this video doesn't have.

His first serve is relatively flat, and has pretty good pace. When he's getting his first serve in consistently, I have trouble breaking him. His second serve can get him into trouble, though - I know that he's been trying to shore up that stroke. First serve is definitely a mid-4.0 stroke.

Off of the ground, his forehand is absolutely his better groundstroke. He can use it as a weapon. His backhand (one handed) can break down from time to time, and doesn't have the same pace or spin as the forehand. Off of the ground, he's a upper 3.5 to mid 4.0, as he stated.

At the net, he's got sure hands. Not necessarily point-ending volleys, but he doesn't miss volleys that he shouldn't miss. Again, upper 3.5, mid 4.0.

In doubles, he's a tough player to beat, as he noted. I have trouble beating him in singles, and last time we played singles (tiebreaks), we split the breakers, and most of them were 7-5 or 8-6. I'm level-wise probably at a similar spot as he is, with a bigger serve and less consistency, and apart from the serve, he's got the edge on me in a few critical spots.

ohplease
07-30-2009, 09:28 AM
Actually that reminds me of a former Davis cup player I played in an Open tourney... I'm only a 4.5, and he's got to be at least a 6.0-6.5 based on the USTA guideline for self-ratings for players with playing experience. Anyway, while warming up this guy was putting the ball right in my strike zone every time, allowing me to smack the back and get into a rhythm. I'd imagine that if you were an outsider looking at us play, you'd think we were evenly matched high level players (5.0+). Well as soon as the match started, all those balls that were "right in my strike zone", were now all "out of my strike zone", and I ended up losing rather quickly 6-1, 6-0, and I don't think he broke a sweat (well maybe a little since he jumped rope for 10 min before the match!)

Best post in the thread.

Just as any club player can make their non-tennis playing friends and acquaintances look as good or bad as they want them to, the same can be said for pros/good college players vs. club players.

I've said it before, but one of the few decent ways of evaluating talent is seeing how well a player controls their strike zone. Both on their side of the net - in terms of their own positioning timing - as well as on the other side - in terms of keeping their opponent from rushing them. Every player has holes and weaknesses in their technique, from hack to pro - the trick is getting to those soft targets.

precision2b
07-30-2009, 11:23 AM
Actually that reminds me of a former Davis cup player I played in an Open tourney... I'm only a 4.5, and he's got to be at least a 6.0-6.5 based on the USTA guideline for self-ratings for players with playing experience. Anyway, while warming up this guy was putting the ball right in my strike zone every time, allowing me to smack the back and get into a rhythm. I'd imagine that if you were an outsider looking at us play, you'd think we were evenly matched high level players (5.0+). Well as soon as the match started, all those balls that were "right in my strike zone", were now all "out of my strike zone", and I ended up losing rather quickly 6-1, 6-0, and I don't think he broke a sweat (well maybe a little since he jumped rope for 10 min before the match!)

I had a similar experience. Did good in warm up’s, but had the same results as you in the match. After the match, I left the court thinking “what the hell was I thinking” Actually I like to play people a lot better then I am. (they are not hard to find) Helps better my game and helps to keep me humble…

MNPlayer
07-30-2009, 11:37 AM
I've played quite a bit with MNPlayer, and can offer a bit of insight that this video doesn't have.

His first serve is relatively flat, and has pretty good pace. When he's getting his first serve in consistently, I have trouble breaking him. His second serve can get him into trouble, though - I know that he's been trying to shore up that stroke. First serve is definitely a mid-4.0 stroke.

Off of the ground, his forehand is absolutely his better groundstroke. He can use it as a weapon. His backhand (one handed) can break down from time to time, and doesn't have the same pace or spin as the forehand. Off of the ground, he's a upper 3.5 to mid 4.0, as he stated.

At the net, he's got sure hands. Not necessarily point-ending volleys, but he doesn't miss volleys that he shouldn't miss. Again, upper 3.5, mid 4.0.

In doubles, he's a tough player to beat, as he noted. I have trouble beating him in singles, and last time we played singles (tiebreaks), we split the breakers, and most of them were 7-5 or 8-6. I'm level-wise probably at a similar spot as he is, with a bigger serve and less consistency, and apart from the serve, he's got the edge on me in a few critical spots.

Thanks for the review, SlapShot! I agree on all your points and kind of knew all this stuff but it is good to hear an independent opinion from someone else on my strengths and weaknesses, weaknesses especially.

If you want my opinion on consistency, which I know you are working on, I think all comes down to movement. Split-step every time, move to the ball right away, stay low, etc. I am working on this like nuts every time I practice now. I still have trouble with footwork and setup for the backhand which I believe explains the weakness on that side.

One problem is that it is pretty easy to get away with poor movement against players that don't hit as hard, or in doubles where you don't usually have to move as far, and you develop bad habits.

nytennisaddict
07-30-2009, 11:42 AM
ah i see i see. i thought you were one of those modest raters. a lot of the ppl around here seem to try to down rate inferior players, just so they'll have more padding between their rating...

bungalo bill has said i'm a 2.5, but personally i think i could hang in a 4.0 league and i can have a rousing rally with "4.5" players. I've held my serve up pretty decently against a rated 5.0 player at my club...(3-6...his serves were pretty tough for me to handle though... huge kickers to the body) anyway, if anyone wants to see my vids, www.youtube.com/hyogen82 the main video was about 6 months ago. I've improved with my consistency by switching to a less heavy racquet recently and becoming more physically fit.
Based on your vid, I'm surprised anyone would have rated you a 2.5. I'd have guessed at least 4.0 or soon to be.

SlapShot
07-30-2009, 11:53 AM
Thanks for the review, SlapShot! I agree on all your points and kind of knew all this stuff but it is good to hear an independent opinion from someone else on my strengths and weaknesses, weaknesses especially.

If you want my opinion on consistency, which I know you are working on, I think all comes down to movement. Split-step every time, move to the ball right away, stay low, etc. I am working on this like nuts every time I practice now. I still have trouble with footwork and setup for the backhand which I believe explains the weakness on that side.

One problem is that it is pretty easy to get away with poor movement against players that don't hit as hard, or in doubles where you don't usually have to move as far, and you develop bad habits.

My quote lately when I'm out playing is "this is an easy game - move your feet, hit the ball." My consinstency is head and shoulders better than it was even a year ago, but I've got a long way to go. Such is the life of a 4.0 slugger. :)

bad_call
07-30-2009, 12:03 PM
My quote lately when I'm out playing is "this is an easy game - move your feet, hit the ball." My consinstency is head and shoulders better than it was even a year ago, but I've got a long way to go. Such is the life of a 4.0 slugger. :)

but what really matters is how is the brewing?

SlapShot
07-30-2009, 12:07 PM
but what really matters is how is the brewing?

Ha! Dormant at the moment - I'm going to start a batch hopefully in the next 2 weeks. I'm working on paring down the finished brews first. ;)

nytennisaddict
07-30-2009, 12:13 PM
I had a similar experience. Did good in warm up’s, but had the same results as you in the match. After the match, I left the court thinking “what the hell was I thinking” Actually I like to play people a lot better then I am. (they are not hard to find) Helps better my game and helps to keep me humble…
IMO you don't always need to play folks better than you to work on your game (maybe 1/3 of the time, but certainly not all the time)
Your comment (as well as others in this thread) just made me realize why folks prefer(including myself) to find "people better than them". When I play with a 5.0+ player they have a much higher level control over the ball, so in practice rally's for example, even though they may be hitting harder or spinnier balls than why I'm used to, the balls are usually hit very consistently in the same place (eg. deep up the middle)... so I can get into a rhythm (ball is always in my strike zone) and feel like I'm hitting better (of course playing them is a different story).

A perfect example was this guy I hit with that I know plays in a 3.5 usta league team... well, somehow I got to hitting with him and he was spraying the ball all over the place (unable to initially handle my pace/spin)... determined to get a good workout, I decided I was going to run down every ball (even if his shot was 15ft out) and try give it to his forehand (his strength) and in a spot he didn't have to run too much... Well, he eventually got grooved, and now started "going for winners" vs. hitting balls accidently out (I don't know why people do this is a practice rally - it's one thing to do it by accident, another to do it intentionally when I'm obviously trying to put it in your strike zone).

A bit frustrated (or maybe a bit tired from running down his shanks *and* his winner attempts), I challenged him to a ground stroke game to 21... this time, rather hitting hard balls into his strike zone, I'd hit 20 ft moon balls, slices, and dinks - which afterwards left him wondering why he couldn't play as well as was in "practice".

yellowoctopus
07-30-2009, 12:31 PM
I
NTRP ratings aren't based on beautiful, Roger Federer-like majestic strokes. They're based on winning and winning alone. Someone with beautiful strokes and footwork could get demolished by a strong mental player with raw, gritty strokes. Or vice-versa, or whatever.


I'm so glad you said this; it is exactly why the NTRP rating description doesn't specify what the stroke SHOULD look like.

That said, there is also a 'dynamic NTRP' rating which takes into account the ability to win points, games and matches. I believe this type of rating further your point about differentiating between how mainstream a player's stroke is (aka, beautiful) and their ability to get the job done on the court.

precision2b
08-05-2009, 01:26 PM
It's interesting that folks (and this is not the first time I've heard this, and I used to think this myself), think that pace is the metric used to determine NTRP rating... really placement and general ball control should be the metric. Certainly at the 5.0 level and up, players hit the ball with placement and pace, but at the 3.5/4.0 levels, it's easier to beat a hard hitter who's ball that lands around the service line the majority of the time, than to beat a pusher/moonballer who's ball lands ~4ft from the baseline the majority of the time.

There's one 4.5 pusher that I know (computer rated) whose serve is at the 3.5 level in terms of pace (and stroke mechanics - but somehow places the ball exceptionally well), groundstrokes look like pathetic pokes that catapault the ball high/deep into the air, and I really love/hate playing him because he's extremely fit and gets alot of balls back (and usually in a place/height that makes me uncomfortable swinging away - deep in the court, or very short angle). He's a great person to practice against (challenges your footwork, patience, etc....), but really makes you look silly if you lose to him (usually followed by the, "eww, you lost to him" comments).

I agree with you on pace vs placement. I play with a friend on a regular basis that is a very good pusher. He can hit with some pace and with good angle, but his best asset is he is extremely fit and gets to every shot you hit. Most of his balls have a lot of back spin and stays low and he can place the ball well. Eventually he wears you down mentally and physically. We know each others game very well and it is usually a war when we play.

fruitytennis1
08-05-2009, 01:42 PM
If thats 4.0 then im like 5.5. That was push playing. No way he is #1 on any team.

SlapShot
08-05-2009, 02:05 PM
If thats 4.0 then im like 5.5. That was push playing. No way he is #1 on any team.

Care to post videos to prove it?

I know that that isn't the most impressive example, but the results indicate that the players are indeed 4.0 players. End of story. Results indicate your rating, not strokes or pace.

kblader
08-05-2009, 07:14 PM
Well, I might regret this, but here are some videos from my lessons. These are not match play, but its all I got right now.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jans0035&search_type=&aq=f

I know my level pretty well because I have played a lot of league tennis. I'm presently rated 3.5 but hardly ever lose at that level and have been bumped up twice last season (ESR and EOY) before appealing down. This year I had a winning record (11-6) at 4.0 league doubles. So I'm a strong 3.5 to middling 4.0 which sounds funny, but I promise you there is a big overlap. My doubles is a bit stronger than singles - I can play competitively with almost any 4.0 in doubles but the best 4.0s kick my butt in singles.

This may sound creepy(and i am sorry) but that looks like you are in White Bear Lake Life Time Fitness on the last court. Am i right?

seb85
08-06-2009, 05:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50C3WpXJYdU

jasoncho92
08-06-2009, 06:04 AM
If thats 4.0 then im like 5.5. That was push playing. No way he is #1 on any team.
This is exactly what 3.0 players say about these videos. I have yet to find an actual 5.5 player who cant tell the difference from a low and high level pusher.

Im about a 4.0
Serves - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcVW90vIOUI
Forehands - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-h_bYaJkZg

ttbrowne
08-06-2009, 06:50 AM
Once again this proves the USTA rating system is screwed. There is such a disparity from region to region. Some of these so-called 4.0's would not stand a chance here and some of ours would not stand a chance elsewhere.

raiden031
08-06-2009, 07:05 AM
Once again this proves the USTA rating system is screwed. There is such a disparity from region to region. Some of these so-called 4.0's would not stand a chance here and some of ours would not stand a chance elsewhere.

The only thing screwed about USTA is that they take little action against cheaters.

The rating system is pretty good IMO. I live in 2008's top usta section for performance at Nationals (mid-atlantic, with 14 teams advancing to the top four at Nationals). Does this mean that we are a strong section? Probably. Does it mean that our players across the board are better than players in other sections who have the same rating as us? NO!

I know this because I have played against playoff-calibre 4.0 players and they do not always look as good as they actually are. There are plenty of players who would look terrible on video but can win matches at districts/sectionals, or even Nationals. I don't see anything posted on this board that I don't see in real life every day. 4.0 is 4.0 wherever you are. When it comes to self-rated players, thats where the distinctions occur. Plus as I've learned painfully there is a pretty big difference between low 4.0s and high 4.0s, but it still has more to do with results than appearance.

thejackal
08-06-2009, 07:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50C3WpXJYdU

your backhand kind of looks like mine. I'd say you're a 4.0-4.5, with the potential to be quite a bit higher if you become more consistent and learn to handle midcourt balls offensively.

goober
08-06-2009, 07:30 AM
Videos are a waste of time for NTRP levels especially at 4.0 and lower. I played a guy recently that has played #1 or #2 singles on 5 different teams that went to 4.0 Nationals. One team actually won it all one year. I looked it up to verify it. He honestly did not look that much better than the guy in the infamous #1 singles video. He hit the ball with not a lot of pace and often hit slice on both sides. The thing is his control and placement were insane. Hard serves, hard shots did not bother him at all. If I had a video of him I am sure that 90% of the TW peanut gallery would rate him 3.0 or low 3.5.

raiden031
08-06-2009, 07:35 AM
Videos are a waste of time for NTRP levels especially at 4.0 and lower. I played a guy recently that has played #1 or #2 singles on 5 different teams that went to 4.0 Nationals. One team actually won it all one year. I looked it up to verify it. He honestly did not look that much better than the guy in the infamous #1 singles video. He hit the ball with not a lot of pace and often hit slice on both sides. The thing is his control and placement were insane. Hard serves, hard shots did not bother him at all. If I had a video of him I am sure that 90% of the TW peanut gallery would rate him 3.0 or low 3.5.

The big thing I notice with 4.0 is phenomenal defensive skills than what I was previously used to. They anticipate and move well, and can handle incoming pace and spin very well. The 4.0 doubles players seem offensive but wreckless, whereas the singles players are just very defensive and nothing bothers them. Even a couple of 4.5s I played against weren't all flashy and overpowering, but just didn't give away free points or allow me to pressure them at all.

In singles, I've played against 3.5 players who had bigger shots than the 4.0 players, but these guys didn't have the defense so as soon as I took control of a point, they were toast because I was better at the big shots than them. I think 4.0 players become alot smarter because they know they won't win matches being too aggressive unless they have the time to really work hard on the practice courts, which most don't of course.

smoothtennis
08-06-2009, 11:57 AM
I've seen a huge difference in styles at 4.0 in Tx. What some of you guys are saying about the ability to handle a large variance of shots, is a very specific skill that appears invisible. I belive it's called 'shot tolerance.'

IE - most of us look at how a player hits, rather than their ability to handle almost any incoming ball. Guys that can handle all the shots coming their way, and still have control in their placement - well that is good tennis. It may not look good, but it plays very good---as the score goes. :mrgreen:

NamRanger
08-06-2009, 12:04 PM
I played a former pro once. I won 2 points because he double faulted due to a bad shoulder. It was fun.




The first video is a 4.0. He has results to prove it.

raiden031
08-06-2009, 12:14 PM
I've seen a huge difference in styles at 4.0 in Tx. What some of you guys are saying about the ability to handle a large variance of shots, is a very specific skill that appears invisible. I belive it's called 'shot tolerance.'

IE - most of us look at how a player hits, rather than their ability to handle almost any incoming ball. Guys that can handle all the shots coming their way, and still have control in their placement - well that is good tennis. It may not look good, but it plays very good---as the score goes. :mrgreen:

This sums it up perfectly.

EtePras
08-06-2009, 06:51 PM
Videos are a waste of time for NTRP levels especially at 4.0 and lower. I played a guy recently that has played #1 or #2 singles on 5 different teams that went to 4.0 Nationals. One team actually won it all one year. I looked it up to verify it. He honestly did not look that much better than the guy in the infamous #1 singles video. He hit the ball with not a lot of pace and often hit slice on both sides. The thing is his control and placement were insane. Hard serves, hard shots did not bother him at all. If I had a video of him I am sure that 90% of the TW peanut gallery would rate him 3.0 or low 3.5.

I don't even have to see a video to tell you that the guy would get destroyed by 4.0's in my region.