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IwishIwasbetter
07-28-2009, 06:06 PM
I am mostly needing help on my forehand, as my backhand is solid and i don't miss it much compared to my forehand.

some random info about my strokes: well i played twice today (video was taken yesterday) and my forehand was amazing in the afternoon, but then i went to go play again in the evening and it seemed like everything went away and my shoulder started hurting and i kept missing even though i tried having the same mindset as earlier. Maybe its a slight timing issue, but when its on its great, but when its off, its pretty bad, unlike my backhand, which always seems to never let me down.

First off, I work on my forheand a ton more than i do any other shot but it never seems to be as solid as my backhand, although there have been break through moments they don't seem to last. When i hit my forehand, i sort of try feeling for a stretch in my bicep because I think i may be hitting it better like that, if that makes any sense. Also, I know people are going to say i should be taking the ball more on the rise, but for some reason i tried that and it doesnt feel natural at all, i like taking it as its dropping even though i have to camp out farther behind hte baseline. I will slowly try to take it more and more on the rise once i feel my technique is right maybe...

Anyways, any advice would be greatly appreciated (especially on my forehand)

Oh yeah, i have more videos, they are still being uploaded though it seems to be taking forever..

VIDEO LINK:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0p0xUq1Bck

coyfish
07-28-2009, 06:14 PM
Well aside from you not moving (footwork) you are really letting the ball get too close on your forehand side. Meaning you are hitting it way late. Not sure why you are doing the nadal over the head follow through. Maybe for low balls but not something you need to do on shots in your strike zone. Practice hitting the ball out in front of you. Watch a fed or djok slomo forhand and see how far in front they hit the ball. Its almost a full arms length in front of them. Also you are not very balanced on your forehand. Notice how your left leg comes up and you lean to the right on your forehands . . . Your backhands are solid and you transfer your weight through and forward nicely. You have to implement those same ideas on your forehand side. Lastly looks like you try and put too much wrist on your forehands. Like your trying to get topspin that way. Thats not the best way. Hit properly with your SW grip (looks SW from vid) and the topspin will generate naturally.

In conclusion biggest thing is make sure you hit in front of you. That will force you to move foreward and will give you better topspin / consistancy. Thats like opposite of what you said in your OP regarding hiting on the rise. No need to hit on the rise unless the ball is deep. Ideally you want to hit right in your strikezone . . .

GL

IwishIwasbetter
07-28-2009, 06:44 PM
Well aside from you not moving (footwork) you are really letting the ball get too close on your forehand side. Meaning you are hitting it way late. Not sure why you are doing the nadal over the head follow through. Maybe for low balls but not something you need to do on shots in your strike zone. Practice hitting the ball out in front of you. Watch a fed or djok slomo forhand and see how far in front they hit the ball. Its almost a full arms length in front of them. Also you are not very balanced on your forehand. Notice how your left leg comes up and you lean to the right on your forehands . . . Your backhands are solid and you transfer your weight through and forward nicely. You have to implement those same ideas on your forehand side. Lastly looks like you try and put too much wrist on your forehands. Like your trying to get topspin that way. Thats not the best way. Hit properly with your SW grip (looks SW from vid) and the topspin will generate naturally.

In conclusion biggest thing is make sure you hit in front of you. That will force you to move foreward and will give you better topspin / consistancy. Thats like opposite of what you said in your OP regarding hiting on the rise. No need to hit on the rise unless the ball is deep. Ideally you want to hit right in your strikezone . . .

GL

ok so hit a lot earlier/out in front with a more lengthened arm, try staying mroe balanced ( don't lean), don't wrist the ball as much,i will try to implement this tomorrow when i play if the rain holds off...thank you

plowmanjoe
07-28-2009, 07:05 PM
I'm not the best at fixing technique using just words. but what will really help you out is not trying to hit so hard. it seems like you're hitting at an 8-9/10 in that video. try hitting at a 5 or a 6. just rally balls.

you're forehand stroke just looks so violent. to me you need to change your take back and your follow through.

sorry if that doesn't help. it's hard for me to describe things over the internet.

another thing i forgot to mention was your footwork. definitely need to be taking a lot of little steps. i'm not a huge fan of the racquet twirl between shots either. but that might just be me.

IwishIwasbetter
07-28-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm not the best at fixing technique using just words. but what will really help you out is not trying to hit so hard. it seems like you're hitting at an 8-9/10 in that video. try hitting at a 5 or a 6. just rally balls.

you're forehand stroke just looks so violent. to me you need to change your take back and your follow through.

sorry if that doesn't help. it's hard for me to describe things over the internet.

another thing i forgot to mention was your footwork. definitely need to be taking a lot of little steps. i'm not a huge fan of the racquet twirl between shots either. but that might just be me.

haha i didnt even know i twirl the racket like that until you metioned it, and yes my footwork could use some more energy in it, about the forehand being too violent, like i dont actaully focus on hitting it hard (although that is the main goal) but i focus on things that could help me hit hard, im assuming this is the okay, if it looks to violent maybe its because i sort of muscle the ball? not too sure but you are right in describing that it looks too violent and not loose or smooth enough

pvaudio
07-28-2009, 07:53 PM
Your footwork makes it look like I'm running on coals while walking to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Get on your toes man! You need to be split stepping when your opponent hits, then react to the shot. In this case, since the machine is hitting so slowly, you have plenty of time to prepare. Turn your shoulders and use your torso rotation to help power your shot. You're just flailing your arm about trying to get a huge shot. Set your feet, left hand out in front, strike the ball, and recover to the middle of the court. You should NEVER be flatfooted on the court. If you are, you will never be able to react quickly enough.

aimr75
07-28-2009, 08:05 PM
timing the split step i assume would be more difficult with a ball machine without the visual cue of knowing when the ball is coming... but yeah, more movement

IwishIwasbetter
07-28-2009, 08:14 PM
alright i will work on the footwork part, is there anything apart from that on my actual forehand stroke/technique i shoudl change or no?

IwishIwasbetter
07-28-2009, 08:23 PM
this isnt important but do i use eastern or semi western grip on my forehand?

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 05:35 AM
anyone else have anything to say about my forehand

pvaudio
07-29-2009, 05:56 AM
It's an eastern grip. When your take your racquet back, your palm is facing the ground. The only way that's possible with a W or SW grip is by having your racquet face be pointing at the back fence.

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 06:15 AM
Your footwork makes it look like I'm running on coals while walking to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Get on your toes man! You need to be split stepping when your opponent hits, then react to the shot. In this case, since the machine is hitting so slowly, you have plenty of time to prepare. Turn your shoulders and use your torso rotation to help power your shot. You're just flailing your arm about trying to get a huge shot. Set your feet, left hand out in front, strike the ball, and recover to the middle of the court. You should NEVER be flatfooted on the court. If you are, you will never be able to react quickly enough.

it looks like i am turning my shouders and torso to help power the shot, i don't see how im not really. If you can explain this part further, i would appreicate it. thanks

pvaudio
07-29-2009, 06:23 AM
it looks like i am turning my shouders and torso to help power the shot, i don't see how im not really. If you can explain this part further, i would appreicate it. thanks

I'd be happy to once I get back from class. :)

Oh, and don't take my demeanor as being offensive, I tend to joke around a lot :D

chico9166
07-29-2009, 06:42 AM
Quite a few problems I see, but lets just isolate two things to work on first.

First of all, when you set the unit turn, keep you shoulders up over your hips, so you don't compress your spine so much. It is very difficult to turn off the ball well when your hunched over. Look how well you stay vertically stacked on the backhand prep, and then contrast that with your posture on the forehand.

Secondly, you really need to get your hands up in the backswing, so there is a little momentum, when you change directions with the racquet. Right now your basically taking the racquet down, stalling the arm, and then really having to exert a lot of force to get the racquet moving again. Get your right hand up to about shoulder height, left arm parallel to the baseline, then just more or less let the racquet free fall from there. With a little practice, you should be able to feel a much smoother transition from downswing to foreward swing with the aid of momentum. In fact that is the feel you should try and key in on. A very relaxed, smooth, redirection of the racquet.

plumcrazy
07-29-2009, 08:05 AM
I can't help you on your tech. but I do recommend you relax on your forehand a lot more and don't swing as hard. I'm speaking form experience. We've got a similar forehand swing.Work on better footwork too. Relaxing and not swing has hard helped me more than anything. Your back hand looks pretty strong. By the way I've got the same ball machine!

Bungalo Bill
07-29-2009, 08:38 AM
I am mostly needing help on my forehand, as my backhand is solid and i don't miss it much compared to my forehand.

some random info about my strokes: well i played twice today (video was taken yesterday) and my forehand was amazing in the afternoon, but then i went to go play again in the evening and it seemed like everything went away and my shoulder started hurting and i kept missing even though i tried having the same mindset as earlier. Maybe its a slight timing issue, but when its on its great, but when its off, its pretty bad, unlike my backhand, which always seems to never let me down.

First off, I work on my forheand a ton more than i do any other shot but it never seems to be as solid as my backhand, although there have been break through moments they don't seem to last. When i hit my forehand, i sort of try feeling for a stretch in my bicep because I think i may be hitting it better like that, if that makes any sense. Also, I know people are going to say i should be taking the ball more on the rise, but for some reason i tried that and it doesnt feel natural at all, i like taking it as its dropping even though i have to camp out farther behind hte baseline. I will slowly try to take it more and more on the rise once i feel my technique is right maybe...

Anyways, any advice would be greatly appreciated (especially on my forehand)

Oh yeah, i have more videos, they are still being uploaded though it seems to be taking forever..

VIDEO LINK:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0p0xUq1Bck

I am going to help you later. Right now, I don't have time to provide a complete analysis.

However, right off the bat, I wish, scratch that, I want you to change your followthrough and how go through the ball.

Aside from having no leg involvement in your stroke and needing more rotation in the shoulders, your forehand is all arm and wrist and your followthrough needs to be thrown in the garbage.

Quit using the reverse forehand followthrough and quit trying to add or spin the ball from your forearm wrist. You are forcing your shot in this case and that reverse followthrough is hurting your timing and your ability to go through the ball. In other words, your extention through the ball is inconsistent in both cases because you have more concern to reverse the followthrough and/or tweak the topspin with your wrist and WW motion.

STOP IT!

You are going to have to rework your forehand and you might pay the piper for awhile because you might have engrained some bad habits that contribute to your inconsistent forehand.

Just think about your backhand (although you have some improvement to do there as well), you are simply hitting the ball (sometimes overhitting) but the stroke isn't doing all these gyrations. Take note of that, regroup, and lets build back that forehand. You have it in you but first you need to ditch the mindset you are currently in to hold on to that reverse forehand or try to spin the ball by cranking your forearm/racquet for your WW motion.

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 08:58 AM
I'd be happy to once I get back from class. :)

Oh, and don't take my demeanor as being offensive, I tend to joke around a lot :D

no offense taken at all, especially since you are helping me out.

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 09:11 AM
Quite a few problems I see, but lets just isolate two things to work on first.

First of all, when you set the unit turn, keep you shoulders up over your hips, so you don't compress your spine so much. It is very difficult to turn off the ball well when your hunched over. Look how well you stay vertically stacked on the backhand prep, and then contrast that with your posture on the forehand.

Secondly, you really need to get your hands up in the backswing, so there is a little momentum, when you change directions with the racquet. Right now your basically taking the racquet down, stalling the arm, and then really having to exert a lot of force to get the racquet moving again. Get your right hand up to about shoulder height, left arm parallel to the baseline, then just more or less let the racquet free fall from there. With a little practice, you should be able to feel a much smoother transition from downswing to foreward swing with the aid of momentum. In fact that is the feel you should try and key in on. A very relaxed, smooth, redirection of the racquet.

hmm on the first part, are you saying i need to basically stop bending my back as much and keep it more upright so my shoulders are more above my hips than they are in that video?

on the 2nd part, you are saying i need to keep the racket moving throughout the swing instead of stalling the arm then hitting, you are also saying i need to take a bigger backswing to get more momentum and free fall which will also aid in keeping the racket moving, and you are also saying to relax..i am going to write all of this down and work on it at the courts tomorrow, and will try getting my dad to video record it

DavaiMarat
07-29-2009, 09:12 AM
Oh my is that a Silent Partner Ball machine I see? Are you from Toronto?

Oh for your strokes. Forehand is very late. You have a good leverage position on that wing but it shouldn't stop and wait for the for ball and then accelerate violently. The racquet never stops moving. Take something off of your forehand and hit farther in front with the double bend. Your slapping at it at the end because of being late.

Backhand, again stop trying to tear the felt off and brush up and get some spin.

Cheers,

Mike

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 09:16 AM
I can't help you on your tech. but I do recommend you relax on your forehand a lot more and don't swing as hard. I'm speaking form experience. We've got a similar forehand swing.Work on better footwork too. Relaxing and not swing has hard helped me more than anything. Your back hand looks pretty strong. By the way I've got the same ball machine!

yep my forehand is much more muscled and tense than my backhand, and the ball machine has been great in grooving my strokes

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 09:34 AM
I am going to help you later. Right now, I don't have time to provide a complete analysis.

However, right off the bat, I wish, scratch that, I want you to change your followthrough and how go through the ball.

Aside from having no leg involvement in your stroke and needing more rotation in the shoulders, your forehand is all arm and wrist and your followthrough needs to be thrown in the garbage.

Quit using the reverse forehand followthrough and quit trying to add or spin the ball from your forearm wrist. You are forcing your shot in this case and that reverse followthrough is hurting your timing and your ability to go through the ball. In other words, your extention through the ball is inconsistent in both cases because you have more concern to reverse the followthrough and/or tweak the topspin with your wrist and WW motion.

STOP IT!

You are going to have to rework your forehand and you might pay the piper for awhile because you might have engrained some bad habits that contribute to your inconsistent forehand.

Just think about your backhand (although you have some improvement to do there as well), you are simply hitting the ball (sometimes overhitting) but the stroke isn't doing all these gyrations. Take note of that, regroup, and lets build back that forehand. You have it in you but first you need to ditch the mindset you are currently in to hold on to that reverse forehand or try to spin the ball by cranking your forearm/racquet for your WW motion.

thanks for the response, i agree with you that my forehand is not technically sound at all, it is tense and muscled and it does sometimes feel like im stiff arming the ball, and i am willing to rework it..
but the thing is i have tried so many different things on my forehand, and this is sort of what works best for me, i mean like for example nadals forehand isnt technically sound at all either is it? but his weird technique works well for him,
and when i went out and hit the other day, my forehand had much had more pace, spin, and consistency than my backhand and it was the best it has ever been, although it is not always like that, my body was feeling really good and i must have been timing it correctly/moving my feet well or something but what im trying to say is, maybe this forehand that im hitting now might be what works best for me (although im sure a few changes need to be made) , do you think that is possible, or do you think i most definitely need to rework the whole thing?
Again, you are probably right that i need to rework the whole thing, and i am willing to change whatever you guys are telling that me needs to be changed in the stroke and i will keep video recording the changes until i feel like im hitting it right..thanks for the response

plowmanjoe
07-29-2009, 09:37 AM
thanks for the response, i agree with you that my forehand is not technically sound at all, it is tense and muscled and it does sometimes feel like im stiff arming the ball, and i am willing to rework it..
but the thing is i have tried so many different things on my forehand, and this is sort of what works best for me, i mean like for example nadals forehand isnt technically sound at all either is it? but his weird technique works well for him,
and when i went out and hit the other day, my forehand had much had more pace, spin, and consistency than my backhand and it was the best it has ever been, although it is not always like that, my body was feeling really good and i must have been timing it correctly/moving my feet well or something but what im trying to say is, maybe this forehand that im hitting now might be what works best for me (although im sure a few changes need to be made) , do you think that is possible, or do you think i most definitely need to rework the whole thing?
Again, you are probably right that i need to rework the whole thing, and i am willing to change whatever you guys are telling that me needs to be changed in the stroke and i will keep video recording the changes until i feel like im hitting it right..thanks for the response

i think most definately you need to rework the whole thing. you need to get worse before you get better. and if you have the right technique, you'll improve way past the point you were at with your old technique.

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 09:38 AM
Oh my is that a Silent Partner Ball machine I see? Are you from Toronto?

Oh for your strokes. Forehand is very late. You have a good leverage position on that wing but it shouldn't stop and wait for the for ball and then accelerate violently. The racquet never stops moving. Take something off of your forehand and hit farther in front with the double bend. Your slapping at it at the end because of being late.

Backhand, again stop trying to tear the felt off and brush up and get some spin.

Cheers,

Mike

yep, silent partner star, i live in ohio though.

i will take your advice about hitting it earlier and trying to keep the racket moving the whole stroke.

in your opinion though, do you think i should completly rework my forehand, or should i keep tweaking it from how it is now?

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 09:52 AM
ok, i get it i need to rework my whole forehand,

i have made a list of all the things i have read in the thread so far that i need to work on

-keep the back more upright on the unit turn
-get an actual backswing for momentum
-keep the racket moving throughout the stroke
-hit more early/out in front
-more active footwork
-don't muscle the ball and relax the arm instead, don't wrist the shot in an attempt to get spin

i am still awaiting most of bungalo bills advice on how to go about reworking the whole forehand stroke, and i could obviously use anyone elses advice too...thanks everyone

plowmanjoe
07-29-2009, 09:59 AM
ok, i get it i need to rework my whole forehand,

i have made a list of all the things i have read in the thread so far that i need to work on

-keep the back more upright on the unit turn
-get an actual backswing for momentum
-keep the racket moving throughout the stroke
-hit more early/out in front
-more active footwork
-don't muscle the ball and relax the arm instead, don't wrist the shot in an attempt to get spin

i am still awaiting most of bungalo bills advice on how to go about reworking the whole forehand stroke, and i could obviously use anyone elses advice too...thanks everyone

how about working on hitting at a 6-7/10 rally speed ball? fixing that follow through.

Bungalo Bill
07-29-2009, 10:20 AM
thanks for the response, i agree with you that my forehand is not technically sound at all, it is tense and muscled and it does sometimes feel like im stiff arming the ball, and i am willing to rework it.

Then you need to stop trying to do the reverse forehand and the WW because you are not doing them right.

In your current use of the two, in order for you to make them happen, you will need to tighten up the arm, forfeit your extention through the ball, and will not be able to hit the ball cleanly and on time because of the slight alteration in your swing path that happens everytime you hit the ball. In other words, everytime you hit the ball you will have subtle differences when you perform the WW/Reverse each time the strings touch the ball whch will be magnified into inconsistency.

You need to change your thinking towards what Vic Braden used to say "hit the same old boring ball or boring winner." What Vic is saying here is for players to be consistent they need to have a swing path that is duplicatable for every contact made with the ball. Consistency is most important in tennis.

but the thing is i have tried so many different things on my forehand, and this is sort of what works best for me, i mean like for example nadals forehand isnt technically sound at all either is it? but his weird technique works well for him

Nadal is technically sound. He uses a reverse forehand but he goes through the ball and allows the momentum built in his swing path to dicate the finish. His arm is relaxed through it and yours is forced. This is why you first need to understand how to relax and go through the ball and let your finish happen before you take on other things like reversing the finish through your swing path.

The finish of your stroke is not the main show, it is a byproduct of what you did before that. Your contact with the ball is the main show.

and when i went out and hit the other day, my forehand had much had more pace, spin, and consistency than my backhand and it was the best it has ever been, although it is not always like that, my body was feeling really good and i must have been timing it correctly/moving my feet well or something but what im trying to say is, maybe this forehand that im hitting now might be what works best for me (although im sure a few changes need to be made) , do you think that is possible, or do you think i most definitely need to rework the whole thing?

I dont want you to give up on using a reverse forehand. What I want is for you to change your thinking on what you emphasize in the stroke. For that you might have to take a step back to take a step forward.

If you are not consistent then the forehand isn't working.

Again, you are probably right that i need to rework the whole thing, and i am willing to change whatever you guys are telling that me needs to be changed in the stroke and i will keep video recording the changes until i feel like im hitting it right..thanks for the response

Perhaps I used the wrong word or went too far. We just need to get you to groove certain things before taking on the different finishes and swing paths. This might mean you will go back to go forward or it might not.

DavaiMarat
07-29-2009, 10:32 AM
yep, silent partner star, i live in ohio though.

i will take your advice about hitting it earlier and trying to keep the racket moving the whole stroke.

in your opinion though, do you think i should completly rework my forehand, or should i keep tweaking it from how it is now?

This is a funny question because it's a question I get a lot but it's I really don't think the former is an option. No one can completely rework or retool thier forehands or ground strokes save from replacing the arm and body you have now. So no, don't throw away everything it's a matter of keeping the good stuff and dropping the bad. Even tweaking it will take time. Muscle memory is a funny thing, it takes 6-8 months of constant hitting to retool a shot so you can do it unconsciously.

Here's the way to look at it my friend. Don't look at it as a complete overhaul. Nor look at it as breaking bad habits.

You're creating 'NEW HABITS'. Get a pro to look at your stroke and give you a few things to work on. A good pro will give you the proper imagery or reference (ie. patting the dog whatever) so you can reproduce good results on your own. Keep a diary and keep notes. Look at it before you hit. At 1st it will be a big list but as you develop you'll get more and more concise.

And remember it's your 'NEW' forehand and not fixing a 'BROKEN OLD' forehand. With this attitude you'll be more likely to cope with hard bumps along the road. Except failure as a necessary step for success - remove your ego from your learning.

That's about the best advice I can give you bro,

Good luck.

Mike

Last thing. It's great all the helpful advice that people give on the board but they more often or not they will just say 'Hit earlier! or 'Move your feet more'. Though as good intended as this is you'll need to see a pro get good visual, audio, mental queues to develop some good habits. Don't get frustrated with the bombardment of critism. Take one or two points to a pro and have him watch for this while you rally.

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 10:37 AM
Then you need to stop trying to do the reverse forehand and the WW because you are not doing them right.

In your current use of the two, in order for you to make them happen, you will need to tighten up the arm, forfeit your extention through the ball, and will not be able to hit the ball cleanly and on time because of the slight alteration in your swing path that happens everytime you hit the ball. In other words, everytime you hit the ball you will have subtle differences when you perform the WW/Reverse each time the strings touch the ball whch will be magnified into inconsistency.

You need to change you thinking towards what Vic Braden used to say "hit the same old boring ball or boring winner." What Vic is saying here is a players swing path that they can duplicate over and over again, is what helps build consistency among other things.



Nadal is technically sound. He uses a reverse forehand but he goes through the ball and allows the momentum built in his swing path to dicate the finish. His arm is relaxed through it and yours is forced. This is why you first need to understand how to relax and go through the ball and let your finish happen before you take on other things like reversing the finish through your swing path.

The finish of your stroke is not the main show, it is a byproduct of what you did before that. Your contact with the ball is the main show.



I dont want you to give up on using a reverse forehand. What I want is for you to change your thinking on what you emphasize in the stroke. For that you might have to take a step back to take a step forward.

If you are not consistent then the forehand isn't working.



Perhaps I used the wrong word or went too far. We just need to get you to groove certain things before taking on the different finishes and swing paths. This might mean you will go back to go forward or it might not.

ok, thanks for responding, was this the analysis? so i need to relax and hit more through the ball too..anything else?

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 10:38 AM
This is a funny question because it's a question I get a lot but it's I really don't think the former is an option. No one can completely rework or retool thier forehands or ground strokes save from replacing the arm and body you have now. So no, don't throw away everything it's a matter of keeping the good stuff and dropping the bad. Even tweaking it will take time. Muscle memory is a funny thing, it takes 6-8 months of constant hitting to retool a shot so you can do it unconsciously.

Here's the way to look at it my friend. Don't look at it as a complete overhaul. Nor look at it as breaking bad habits.

You're creating 'NEW HABITS'. Get a pro to look at your stroke and give you a few things to work on. A good pro will give you the proper imagery or reference (ie. patting the dog whatever) so you can reproduce good results on your own. Keep a diary and keep notes. Look at it before you hit. At 1st it will be a big list but as you develop you'll get more and more concise.

And remember it's your 'NEW' forehand and not fixing a 'BROKEN OLD' forehand. With this attitude you'll be more likely to cope with hard bumps along the road. Except failure as a necessary step for success - remove your ego from your learning.

That's about the best advice I can give you bro,

Good luck.

Mike

Last thing. It's great all the helpful advice that people give on the board but they more often or not they will just say 'Hit earlier! or 'Move your feet more'. Though as good intended as this is you'll need to see a pro get good visual, audio, mental queues to develop some good habits. Don't get frustrated with the bombardment of critism. Take one or two points to a pro and have him watch for this while you rally.

great advice, thank you

Bungalo Bill
07-29-2009, 11:54 AM
ok, thanks for responding, was this the analysis? so i need to relax and hit more through the ball too..anything else?

No, not yet. I will help with a more thorough analysis later that will look at your entire stroke from the ground up.

I just need you to change your mindset about how you strike the ball and to help you cut out the fluff (twirling, reverse finish, WW by force, etc...).

I don't want you to think the reverse forehand is bad or something you shouldn't learn. Nor do I want you to think I don't like WW type swings.

We just need to go back to making a quality contact with the ball and develop a consistent finish based on what preceded the finish. In other words, making good contact with the ball is most important while letting the finish follow and for that I will be suggestiing you set aside the WW and Reverse until you can go through the ball with a good swing path.

pvaudio
07-29-2009, 02:26 PM
Bro, just swing naturally.

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 03:31 PM
Bro, just swing naturally.

well my natural swing is how i hit in the video which seems to be really bad technique.. what do you mean by natural

Bungalo Bill
07-29-2009, 04:12 PM
well my natural swing is how i hit in the video which seems to be really bad technique.. what do you mean by natural

Great response. Please don't practice your "natural" swing then. :)

However, in all fairness, Pvaudio wasn't referring to your incorrect swing. He was referring to adopting a natural swing path which swings the racquet low to high and extends through the ball before coming around for the finish.

He and I have gone around and around with our resident fool on tennis learned "naturally". Which is the biggest lie a tennis player can buy into.

Players bring what they bring to the table for tennis. The rest needs to be fine-tuned, practiced, critqued, and trained so that a tennis player can become skillful with their craft. Although tennis players can receive benefit here and by watching a pro player, true development happens on the court by practicing good technique and good footwork for tennis.

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 05:54 PM
Great response. Please don't practice your "natural" swing then. :)

However, in all fairness, Pvaudio wasn't referring to your incorrect swing. He was referring to adopting a natural swing path which swings the racquet low to high and extends through the ball before coming around for the finish.

He and I have gone around and around with our resident fool on tennis learned "naturally". Which is the biggest lie a tennis player can buy into.

Players bring what they bring to the table for tennis. The rest needs to be fine-tuned, practiced, critqued, and trained so that a tennis player can become skillful with their craft. Although tennis players can receive benefit here and by watching a pro player, true development happens on the court by practicing good technique and good footwork for tennis.

bill, when you pvaudio meant swinging from low to high and extending through the ball before coming around to finish, well on the video, the ones where i don't reverse it, aren't i going from low to high and extending through the ball?

I mean i just got back from hitting a little while ago and i sucked terribly this time, i tried to take a backswing and not stall the racket, i tried loosening my arm, and i tried keeping my back mroe upright and hit the ball earlier, a lot of these came naturally after trying one thing which made it easier but my forehands felt awful and i couldn't feel the power on them....i didn't feel the stretch i had felt like in that video..it feels like without this stretch in the arm i can't get much power..gah i don't know anymore..i think i'm just gona stick with my old form and tweak it slightly, although i will wait for your analysis and try doing what you say before giving up...thanks

IwishIwasbetter
07-29-2009, 05:57 PM
is my technique really that bad? i mean how can i even hit the ball as hard as i was in that video( not that it was that hard) if my technique was that bad?

plowmanjoe
07-29-2009, 06:34 PM
is my technique really that bad? i mean how can i even hit the ball as hard as i was in that video( not that it was that hard) if my technique was that bad?

you look like you're bowling

rosewall4ever
07-29-2009, 10:04 PM
your flickin your wrist which is why its erratic. the wrist laid back at the start of your swing continues through to the follow through. need to remove any unnecessary movements similarly to your backhand.

pvaudio
07-30-2009, 06:00 AM
well my natural swing is how i hit in the video which seems to be really bad technique.. what do you mean by natural
I'm sorry, that was s joke. Some idiot on here uses that as her only response when trying to give tennis advice. Don't listen to it, listen to BB.

Nellie
07-30-2009, 06:46 AM
is my technique really that bad? i mean how can i even hit the ball as hard as i was in that video( not that it was that hard) if my technique was that bad?

Your technique is pretty bad. And you are trying to hammer the ball with that bad technique, which probably kills your results, so you cannot even push the ball around because you have no consistency in the form or results.

If I were to work on your form, I would have you play a couple of weeks with a two handed forehand (left hand on top), to force you to rotate your body/shoulders prior to contact.

Then I would have you hit one handed stroke with the following guidelines:
hold on to the throat of the racquet with your left hand as you prepare,
release with the left hand when your left shoulder is pointed to the ball,
continue to bringing the racquet back until it is slightly behind your right shoulder and about shoulder/chest height,
swinging a round loop that goes beneath the ball prior to contact and to extend the stroke through and past the point of contact , and
finish over the left shoulder with a good step with the right foot while catching the racquet with the left hand so that you finish with your right shoulder pointed to the intended target.

These points may change as your improve, but build the concept of hitting from the hips and through the ball.

IwishIwasbetter
07-30-2009, 08:47 AM
gahhh forget it im not going to rebuild a new forehand, i don't see the point in bothering, i think if i change a couple things i can have a consistent and powerful forehand, but if i try rebuilding a new one it will take months to learn and i don't have that much time left. for now, i am just going to try watching the ball through the back of the stringbed (forcing me to hit out in front) , relaxing my wrist, hand and arm so i don't completly arm the ball, and move my feet better, and i am going to try hitting with more of a straight arm if i'm not already..if anyone has any more advice, i would be glad to read it.

Bungalo Bill
07-30-2009, 04:05 PM
bill, when you pvaudio meant swinging from low to high and extending through the ball before coming around to finish, well on the video, the ones where i don't reverse it, aren't i going from low to high and extending through the ball?

I mean i just got back from hitting a little while ago and i sucked terribly this time, i tried to take a backswing and not stall the racket, i tried loosening my arm, and i tried keeping my back mroe upright and hit the ball earlier, a lot of these came naturally after trying one thing which made it easier but my forehands felt awful and i couldn't feel the power on them....i didn't feel the stretch i had felt like in that video..it feels like without this stretch in the arm i can't get much power..gah i don't know anymore..i think i'm just gona stick with my old form and tweak it slightly, although i will wait for your analysis and try doing what you say before giving up...thanks

Geez man, come on. I wouldnt have said anything if I didnt think your forehand needed to work differently. If you only had one thing to improve, I would have gave you one thing.

I am not looking for perfection, I am looking for committment. I just simply go through a checklist to see where the racquet is at certain positions. I look at your feet, legs, shoulders, position to the ball, your non-dominant arm, etc...

Some people have a lot to change because they engrained bad habits. Some don't.

Do you understand what it is you are suppose to do?

JackB1
07-30-2009, 04:44 PM
biggest thing I see is that you aren't stepping into your forhand and you are keeping your weight back on your heels and not getting your whole body into the swing. Too wristy too. Get set up early and get that lower body and shoulder into the shot! You have a lazy forehand right now.

plowmanjoe
07-30-2009, 04:48 PM
gahhh forget it im not going to rebuild a new forehand, i don't see the point in bothering, i think if i change a couple things i can have a consistent and powerful forehand, but if i try rebuilding a new one it will take months to learn and i don't have that much time left. for now, i am just going to try watching the ball through the back of the stringbed (forcing me to hit out in front) , relaxing my wrist, hand and arm so i don't completly arm the ball, and move my feet better, and i am going to try hitting with more of a straight arm if i'm not already..if anyone has any more advice, i would be glad to read it.

ridiculous, were you just expecting compliments and praise? one of the most annoying things with teaching tennis is people that refuse to listen to advice. those people never improve. that's fine, just don't come here looking for advice that you'll just ignore anyways.

Cloud Atlas
07-30-2009, 04:52 PM
Watch this guy if you want a solid forehand example.
I learned so much from watching this vid.
Notice how his weight is going into the shot? He also tends to extend out into the ball. Actually his swing is not so low to high as it is "through" the ball. This is probably exaggerated by the fact he's hitting waist high balls. But try to work out the difference between your own technique and Nalbandians. It made a huge difference when I did this for myself.
Here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v***4x4OdOI

Also notice how his follow through is directly over his left shoulder, with a bit of ww. I'd avoid the nadal follow through unless you are Nadal or grossly out of position and it's the only choice you have. Good luck!

Cloud Atlas
07-30-2009, 04:55 PM
LOL, not sure what happened with the link.
Hopefully this one works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v***4x4OdOI

Cloud Atlas
07-30-2009, 04:56 PM
BAH!!! Do a search for "David Nalbandian Forehand on youtube. It's the clay court one. Definitely worth it!

aimr75
07-30-2009, 05:30 PM
but if i try rebuilding a new one it will take months to learn and i don't have that much time left.

why dont you have that much time left? you look young.. im 34 and still willing to change/rework in an effort to improve

firstblud
07-30-2009, 05:33 PM
you look like you lean back on your shot or something... balance seems off

IwishIwasbetter
07-30-2009, 08:20 PM
got to hit again a little today, 2 video link are below...i also have some snapshots which i will post a little later..my forehands were feeling somewhat more solid today , i still find it a bit hard to believe that i can be hitting some of them this well yet be doing the stroke totally wrong, i took some snapshots and compared it to a slow mo verdasco video on youtube and a lot of the pics look very similar especially when we make contact although his arm is completely straight unlike mine and he uses a more western grip (not trying to say that im as good as him or anything, obviously i suck compared to him) but it just makes me more confused as to how i can be hitting it that wrong, maybe its just unorhtodox?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpQTZY2sr4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z2hchTdhV8

IwishIwasbetter
07-30-2009, 08:23 PM
Geez man, come on. I wouldnt have said anything if I didnt think your forehand needed to work differently. If you only had one thing to improve, I would have gave you one thing.

I am not looking for perfection, I am looking for committment. I just simply go through a checklist to see where the racquet is at certain positions. I look at your feet, legs, shoulders, position to the ball, your non-dominant arm, etc...

Some people have a lot to change because they engrained bad habits. Some don't.

Do you understand what it is you are suppose to do?

thanks for the response again, i will try to do everything you tell me to do then, although, no , i don't understand exactly what it is i should do...if you could go through that check list or help me get started on how to rebuild this forehand, i would appreciate it..

IwishIwasbetter
07-30-2009, 08:26 PM
ridiculous, were you just expecting compliments and praise? one of the most annoying things with teaching tennis is people that refuse to listen to advice. those people never improve. that's fine, just don't come here looking for advice that you'll just ignore anyways.

no, compliments and praise were the last thing i was expecting with my ugly forehand, sorry if i came across that way...all i want is advice and i am going to try taking everything you guys say and implementing it into my game..sorry i wasn't ready to earlier though, i was just having a hard time deciding becaue i feel ive been hitting it well compared to how i usually do and i didn't just want to let go of it but it looks like i need to get rid of it so i will do

IwishIwasbetter
07-30-2009, 08:27 PM
why dont you have that much time left? you look young.. im 34 and still willing to change/rework in an effort to improve

yeah im just tryin to hit my peak by the time the season comes which is in 5 months and depending on how good i do i may quit tennis to focus on other things or i may continue... but yeah all i really care about is the season right now..i guess 5 months is more than enough time and i should take the time to get the right technique so i will try it

user92626
07-30-2009, 09:01 PM
Iwish,
Listen to BB. You need your whole FH and BH rework completely.

I may not accurately remember but BB has posted the 4 positions of FH and the rest can be connected on its own. To me that's the easiest way to learn the FH.

I don't know about you and others here, but I wouldn't learn footwork at the same time I am learning the FH basics. It would be very difficult and awkward to coordinate everything -- upperbody and lowerbody, foot planting, weight shifting, step adjustment, etc. Too much. I would pick a basic stance, semi-open, stand relatively still and drill the FH sequence against a wall or have someone feeding balls to you.

firstblud
07-30-2009, 09:06 PM
yeah im just tryin to hit my peak by the time the season comes which is in 5 months and depending on how good i do i may quit tennis to focus on other things or i may continue... but yeah all i really care about is the season right now..i guess 5 months is more than enough time and i should take the time to get the right technique so i will try it

5 months is plenty of time. but you have to commit yourself to reworking your forehand. you will probably shank a lot of balls trying to get the form down (in the first several practice sessions), but it will eventually click.

IwishIwasbetter
07-30-2009, 09:15 PM
5 months is plenty of time. but you have to commit yourself to reworking your forehand. you will probably shank a lot of balls trying to get the form down (in the first several practice sessions), but it will eventually click.

yeah i hope so, what do you think about my last 2 videos i just posted? still just as bad? probably the last time i will be seeing that technique..

Cloud Atlas
07-30-2009, 10:52 PM
Hi IwishIwasbetter.
Just wanted to say that I wouldn't take ALL the advice you get on here really seriously. While most people probably know what they're talking about, some won't. I reckon you should take the bits that sound right for you and leave the rest. I be wary of anyone who tells you that you need to totally reconstruct your forehand. Just my advice, and feel free not to take it too!

boxerrumble
07-30-2009, 11:07 PM
I can't help but notice you bend your knees first THEN you move into position to hit. I think you want to move into position, then bend knees to hit. See if that works for ya.

Bungalo Bill
07-31-2009, 07:12 AM
yeah im just tryin to hit my peak by the time the season comes which is in 5 months and depending on how good i do i may quit tennis to focus on other things or i may continue...but yeah all i really care about is the season right now..i guess 5 months is more than enough time and i should take the time to get the right technique so i will try it

It sounds like you are still on the fence. That is okay. Let's make it simple for you then. What you simply need to do is go through the ball more and stay on your toes - even when you are waiting for the ball. Your main things are:

1. Preparation: Prep the grip and shoulders before anything else starts and while you are moving to the ball.

2. Shoulder turn: Make sure your front shoulder goes under your chin before bringing your rotation back forward (or uncoil).

3. When you rotate back, drive through the ball.

4. Extend through the shot and just catch the racquet on the other side. Don't worry about finishing like Rodger or Nadal or anyone else. After you get used to this, we just need to alter the swing path a little to help with a certain finish.

You can look up the "pat the dog on the head" write-ups that I have provided. I don't know where they are. So search for them and study them. Ask questions if you need too.

If you have five months, the stuff I mentioned above are not drastic changes, they are mainly "tweaks" to your forehand. I want to take what you are giving me and adjust a few things. Mainly I need you to quit trying to "do something" with the ball and relax, go through the ball and recover.

Footwork, you can work on your footwork and conditioning for the next five months while you work on the above. Again, the above is not anything big when you really analyze it. We are just reemphasizing things again.

Incorporate footwork drills over the next several months. Do some track work (sprints and butt kicks). Over the next five months, perhaps the most important thing you can do to improve is improve your conditioning and footwork. Review the above information on the forehand and go with it.

If you decide to keep the reverse forehand (then learn how to do it right). You still need to go through the ball and allow the momentum in your swing to bring the racquet back and up. It is not forced.

IwishIwasbetter
07-31-2009, 08:12 AM
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9740/secondforehandclip00125.png (http://img387.imageshack.us/i/secondforehandclip00125.png/)

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7799/secondforehandclip00130.png (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/secondforehandclip00130.png/)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7799/secondforehandclip00130.png (http://img220.imageshack.us/i/secondforehandclip00130.png/)


http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7799/secondforehandclip00130.png (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/secondforehandclip00130.png/)

IwishIwasbetter
07-31-2009, 08:13 AM
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/7799/secondforehandclip00130.png (http://img372.imageshack.us/i/secondforehandclip00130.png/)




http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/7799/secondforehandclip00130.png (http://img83.imageshack.us/i/secondforehandclip00130.png/)

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7799/secondforehandclip00130.png (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/secondforehandclip00130.png/)

IwishIwasbetter
07-31-2009, 08:25 AM
the snapshots should make it easier to corret my technique hopefully, if you look at 1:17 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LetxCiRKSh8 , you can see a slow mo of verdascos forehand that looks pretty similar to mine in those snapshots i think... if anyone has any advice still , please post it, and bill, can you tell me by looking at those pics which stuff on your checklist i am not doing, thanks everyone

Bungalo Bill
07-31-2009, 09:21 AM
the snapshots should make it easier to corret my technique hopefully, if you look at 1:17 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LetxCiRKSh8 , you can see a slow mo of verdascos forehand that looks pretty similar to mine in those snapshots i think... if anyone has any advice still , please post it, and bill, can you tell me by looking at those pics which stuff on your checklist i am not doing, thanks everyone

Thanks for the photos, I am going to look at everything you can provide me. My money making trade is I am an auditor, so I love to analyze and provide my conclusions. I can also be insanely stubborn if I feel I am right. hahaha

Photos are good but they dont tell the whole story such as relaxation, amount of effort in the arm swing, how you remained balanced, and how your shoulders rotated. But we can use them to help in certain areas.

Please read post #26 (my post). I would like you to reread and understand my last quote in that post. It basically said, that perhaps I was a bit strong on my words telling you that you needed a "rework" implying that we are starting all over again. I really dont think we need to and as I mentioned above, if you want to keep the reverse forehand, then just extend through the ball a little more. And yes, it will feel a bit weird because you are now using your muscles in your legs and body slightly different and you might be thinking again a bit too much. This is normal.

So instead of thinking you need to rework everything in the next five months let's just go with what we have. Is that okay? Can you buy into improving a few areas vs. the whole thing? Would that help you to relax and not have anxiety that you are running out of time?

It is okay to have two different forehands (reverse and normal), so if you want both then we can begin there. I personally would like to study and learn a bit more on the reverse forehand (especially Nadal's version) and we can work on nearly the exact same things for the "normal" forehand.

Is that cool with you?

GuyClinch
07-31-2009, 10:10 AM
Well I am not a pro but it looks to me like your still muscling the ball and gripping the racquet way to hard. Your swing should be really lose like a pendulum. It needs to be free and flowing..

Something David Sammel does with his beginners (a top english coach) is do a pendulum kinda swing to warm up. He emphasizes how you really want to feel the weight of the racquet..

Pete

IwishIwasbetter
07-31-2009, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the photos, I am going to look at everything you can provide me. My money making trade is I am an auditor, so I love to analyze and provide my conclusions. I can also be insanely stubborn if I feel I am right. hahaha

Photos are good but they dont tell the whole story such as relaxation, amount of effort in the arm swing, how you remained balanced, and how your shoulders rotated. But we can use them to help in certain areas.

Please read post #26 (my post). I would like you to reread and understand my last quote in that post. It basically said, that perhaps I was a bit strong on my words telling you that you needed a "rework" implying that we are starting all over again. I really dont think we need to and as I mentioned above, if you want to keep the reverse forehand, then just extend through the ball a little more. And yes, it will feel a bit weird because you are now using your muscles in your legs and body slightly different and you might be thinking again a bit too much. This is normal.

So instead of thinking you need to rework everything in the next five months let's just go with what we have. Is that okay? Can you buy into improving a few areas vs. the whole thing? Would that help you to relax and not have anxiety that you are running out of time?

It is okay to have two different forehands (reverse and normal), so if you want both then we can begin there. I personally would like to study and learn a bit more on the reverse forehand (especially Nadal's version) and we can work on nearly the exact same things for the "normal" forehand.

Is that cool with you?

yep, you are right in that the photos don't tell the whole story because my arm definitely needs to relax more, and i am off balanced in other forehands so i need to put more effort into staying balanced, and staying loose with my arm and wrist. I also need to stop reversing my forehand as often as i am now because i think i reverse it when im off balance.

anyways, yes, working on one thing at a time and starting from the forehand i have now sounds much better, so i will wait for your next advice. i will also continue to post videos everyday or ever other day and hopefully improvement will come. thanks bill and everyone else

Bungalo Bill
07-31-2009, 11:36 AM
yep, you are right in that the photos don't tell the whole story because my arm definitely needs to relax more, and i am off balanced in other forehands so i need to put more effort into staying balanced, and staying loose with my arm and wrist. I also need to stop reversing my forehand as often as i am now because i think i reverse it when im off balance.

But it does freeze points in time to compare the four positions of the forehand.

If you look up the pat the dog on the head series, try to look up the Federer sequence. Then clip some frames for each sequence and let's see where your hand/racquet is throughout the sequence. We can also get any idea of your legs and balance a little.

anyways, yes, working on one thing at a time and starting from the forehand i have now sounds much better, so i will wait for your next advice. i will also continue to post videos everyday or ever other day and hopefully improvement will come. thanks bill and everyone else

Then let;s work on doing less topspin and more going through and out on the ball. Let the finish happen. Do you want to still do the reverse?

IwishIwasbetter
07-31-2009, 02:48 PM
But it does freeze points in time to compare the four positions of the forehand.

If you look up the pat the dog on the head series, try to look up the Federer sequence. Then clip some frames for each sequence and let's see where your hand/racquet is throughout the sequence. We can also get any idea of your legs and balance a little.



Then let;s work on doing less topspin and more going through and out on the ball. Let the finish happen. Do you want to still do the reverse?

no i need to get rid of the reverse, when i reverse it its usually because im off balance and it usually ends up being weak shot unless i time it perfectly.

chico9166
08-01-2009, 08:37 AM
Your technique is pretty bad. And you are trying to hammer the ball with that bad technique, which probably kills your results, so you cannot even push the ball around because you have no consistency in the form or results.

If I were to work on your form, I would have you play a couple of weeks with a two handed forehand (left hand on top), to force you to rotate your body/shoulders prior to contact.

Then I would have you hit one handed stroke with the following guidelines:
hold on to the throat of the racquet with your left hand as you prepare,
release with the left hand when your left shoulder is pointed to the ball,
continue to bringing the racquet back until it is slightly behind your right shoulder and about shoulder/chest height,
swinging a round loop that goes beneath the ball prior to contact and to extend the stroke through and past the point of contact , and
finish over the left shoulder with a good step with the right foot while catching the racquet with the left hand so that you finish with your right shoulder pointed to the intended target.

These points may change as your improve, but build the concept of hitting from the hips and through the ball.

This is a good progressional excercise, and will help the OP.

Bungalo Bill
08-01-2009, 05:01 PM
no i need to get rid of the reverse, when i reverse it its usually because im off balance and it usually ends up being weak shot unless i time it perfectly.

Okay. did you find the post I suggsted above yet?

IwishIwasbetter
08-01-2009, 05:24 PM
Okay. did you find the post I suggsted above yet?

yeah if you are talking about post 26..anyways i got to hit twice today with actaul people, and i have come to realize that you all have been right about my forehand the whole time..it is pure trash..i mean it takes so much effort to get power, and my bicep and shoulder are constantly hurting..i can hit it well at times but not on a consistent basis at all, i think i am doing a lot of things wrong..

i feel kinda dumb about being so stubborn before but it was because i really thought it was alright, but it actually sucks, especially compard to my backhand. on my backhand, everything feels smooth,and i am getting consistent power on it very easily. my forehand is just awful and i really am convinced that i need to rebuild mostly all of it, i am going to try some new things tomorrow mornign when i go out and hit with my ball machine, and will video record myself everytime i go out to hit from now on. hopefully i can progress pretty fast...i guess i will just try doing what nellie said in his post because i don't really have anything else to go on other than that

IwishIwasbetter
08-01-2009, 05:40 PM
also should i stick with my eastern grip? would i be able to hit somewhat modern with it?

IwishIwasbetter
08-02-2009, 12:49 PM
i got to hit today and my forehands were pretty good, i tried the same thing as my old one but just tried loosening my arm and wrist up and taking a little bigger and different backswing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekILo9s85pg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uVZ0iOBAOI

tell me how it looks, i mean does my technique look right or wrong or is it getting better or worse, also if there is anything i should change..thanks everyone

pvaudio
08-02-2009, 02:04 PM
I know BB will probably disagree with this, but I feel it's so important (whatever that's worth :D) that I'll mention it anyway: if you're serious about playing and not just hitting on the ball machine, you need to do footwork drills. I don't mean it would be helpful, I mean you NEED to do them. That machine is feeding horribly slow, you're standing so far away from it and you still don't get into ideal position to hit the ball. When that shot is coming at you faster, isn't in a predictable place and isn't with a predictable spin, your shot will fall apart, guaranteed. I'll see what BB says about this, but I feel strongly about it.

Bungalo Bill
08-02-2009, 02:42 PM
I know BB will probably disagree with this, but I feel it's so important (whatever that's worth :D) that I'll mention it anyway: if you're serious about playing and not just hitting on the ball machine, you need to do footwork drills.

I would never disagree with what you posted on footwork.

I don't mean it would be helpful, I mean you NEED to do them. That machine is feeding horribly slow, you're standing so far away from it and you still don't get into ideal position to hit the ball. When that shot is coming at you faster, isn't in a predictable place and isn't with a predictable spin, your shot will fall apart, guaranteed. I'll see what BB says about this, but I feel strongly about it.

Here is my position on this, the shot as he indicated is already falling apart. There is no way he can sustain a rally hitting the way he does. For that, he needs to relearn and restructure his forehand because he is so used to doing it a certain way.

You are right about the footwork thing and the ball machine. However, because the OP has engrained poor technique in the forehand a slow feed is appropriate in this case because you want the brain to get used to firing the muscles that are used in the forehand without too much stress and extra things to manage.

Footwork should be incorporated in his training for sure, I am not sure I would do it with his forehand. Or maybe a separate drill after working on his forehand technique.

Bungalo Bill
08-02-2009, 02:44 PM
yeah if you are talking about post 26..anyways i got to hit twice today with actaul people, and i have come to realize that you all have been right about my forehand the whole time..it is pure trash..i mean it takes so much effort to get power, and my bicep and shoulder are constantly hurting..i can hit it well at times but not on a consistent basis at all, i think i am doing a lot of things wrong..

i feel kinda dumb about being so stubborn before but it was because i really thought it was alright, but it actually sucks, especially compard to my backhand. on my backhand, everything feels smooth,and i am getting consistent power on it very easily. my forehand is just awful and i really am convinced that i need to rebuild mostly all of it, i am going to try some new things tomorrow mornign when i go out and hit with my ball machine, and will video record myself everytime i go out to hit from now on. hopefully i can progress pretty fast...i guess i will just try doing what nellie said in his post because i don't really have anything else to go on other than that

Look up "pat the dog on the head".

IwishIwasbetter
08-02-2009, 06:03 PM
I know BB will probably disagree with this, but I feel it's so important (whatever that's worth :D) that I'll mention it anyway: if you're serious about playing and not just hitting on the ball machine, you need to do footwork drills. I don't mean it would be helpful, I mean you NEED to do them. That machine is feeding horribly slow, you're standing so far away from it and you still don't get into ideal position to hit the ball. When that shot is coming at you faster, isn't in a predictable place and isn't with a predictable spin, your shot will fall apart, guaranteed. I'll see what BB says about this, but I feel strongly about it.

you are right, i really do struggle to get in that ideal position, and i will do footwork drills, but what drills do you mean exactly? i am sure feeding in different spots , so im doing inside out forehands, and running,and some shuffling too would help, but i am not sure what else i can do other than that. thanks for the response though, its probably going to help a lot

IwishIwasbetter
08-02-2009, 06:07 PM
Look up "pat the dog on the head".

hey bill, if you scroll up a little bit and look at my last two videos, i think i am doing this in the videos, or am i wrong?

aptennis91
08-02-2009, 06:10 PM
found what you might be looking for.. good luck:) I'm struggling to be the best for season also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPCY1PNAYqE
very nice drill with just a ball machine = helps with footwork and placement on forehand.

Blake0
08-02-2009, 08:02 PM
yeah if you are talking about post 26..anyways i got to hit twice today with actaul people, and i have come to realize that you all have been right about my forehand the whole time..it is pure trash..i mean it takes so much effort to get power, and my bicep and shoulder are constantly hurting..i can hit it well at times but not on a consistent basis at all, i think i am doing a lot of things wrong..

i feel kinda dumb about being so stubborn before but it was because i really thought it was alright, but it actually sucks, especially compard to my backhand. on my backhand, everything feels smooth,and i am getting consistent power on it very easily. my forehand is just awful and i really am convinced that i need to rebuild mostly all of it, i am going to try some new things tomorrow mornign when i go out and hit with my ball machine, and will video record myself everytime i go out to hit from now on. hopefully i can progress pretty fast...i guess i will just try doing what nellie said in his post because i don't really have anything else to go on other than that

Wow, now i know why nadal has monster biceps..:)

Blake0
08-02-2009, 08:18 PM
Heres a couple things i recommend to stay balanced.

1. move your feet, if you took 1 or 2 more steps closer to the ball you wouldn't have to be leaning into the ball to hit.

2. Focus on not leaning your upper body to any side. Keep it straight up and try not to lean, if you've been doing it for awhile, it might have become a habit.

3. Not sure if this will help, but for 10-15 mins (for like a warm-up or something) try to stand up straight and hit the ball, using mainly your core and upper body for power, with little or no leg drive. If you find yourself leaning or your leg lifting up, focus on keeping your balance.

4. While hitting, try to keep both feet on the floor.

Blake0
08-02-2009, 08:23 PM
Wow, great backhand. Notice on your backhand your body doesn't lean to one side like you do on your forehand..and you transfer your weight to your front foot well, with a solid contact.

On your forehands, some of them you stop half way through the stroke, remember to always followthrough (even if it's reverse or regular), if you don't sometimes you'll deaccelarate to stop there, and you won't hit as hard as you could.

Blake0
08-02-2009, 08:28 PM
This is based on your 2 vids you posted a couple posts before. Your contact point..seems a little further back then it should be. Try to hit the ball further out in front of you, even in your reverse forehands (unless you're hitting reverse forehands to compensate for bad timing).

Here's a couple things i recommend. Learn how to hit the double bend forehand, and make sure your followthrough wraps around your body, you catch it in your left hand, or around your neck.

Your picture analysis looks like at the end of your backswing your arm is almost if not completely straight, and then during your forward swing your elbow bends to go to your contact point and then you hit the ball. Either learn how to hit a straight arm forehand or double bend forehard, or use them both, but don't combine them..well it doesn't look like that on your video..so im not too sure.

First off let me make sure i got this right..you hit with a eastern forehand grip, don't want to hit nadal style, and want to hit like verdasco maybe?

Jsa2u
08-02-2009, 09:13 PM
found what you might be looking for.. good luck:) I'm struggling to be the best for season also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPCY1PNAYqE
very nice drill with just a ball machine = helps with footwork and placement on forehand.


great post.

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 04:01 AM
Heres a couple things i recommend to stay balanced.

1. move your feet, if you took 1 or 2 more steps closer to the ball you wouldn't have to be leaning into the ball to hit.

2. Focus on not leaning your upper body to any side. Keep it straight up and try not to lean, if you've been doing it for awhile, it might have become a habit.

3. Not sure if this will help, but for 10-15 mins (for like a warm-up or something) try to stand up straight and hit the ball, using mainly your core and upper body for power, with little or no leg drive. If you find yourself leaning or your leg lifting up, focus on keeping your balance.

4. While hitting, try to keep both feet on the floor.

i can see that clearly now that you mention, on my forehand how im leaning to the sides and forward when the ball lands short, and how on my backhand this hardly happens at all, i am going to try fixing this so hopefully it won't be as severe in my next video. oh, and your number 3 im guessing will help a lot with this,thanks for the advice, seems like it should help

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 04:08 AM
Wow, great backhand. Notice on your backhand your body doesn't lean to one side like you do on your forehand..and you transfer your weight to your front foot well, with a solid contact.

On your forehands, some of them you stop half way through the stroke, remember to always followthrough (even if it's reverse or regular), if you don't sometimes you'll deaccelarate to stop there, and you won't hit as hard as you could.

about the forehand, i think i do followthrough everytime now except when i do that stupid reverse thing , you can look at my last video to see, so are you talking about how i don't follow through all the way on my reverse? i don't think i do either, i see nadal extends all the way though and then goes over his head, while i just seem to go straight up.. hmm..not sure, ill put trying not to lean as a 1st priority and makin sure im following through next

Cnote
08-03-2009, 04:40 AM
1.After watching your videos I agree with some of the above advice in that you need someone or something as a target. Right now you are just hitting without a specific goal. Having a target can help flatten your shot a little more. It appears that you always use a windshield wiper motion and it is hard for you to control it. By using a hitting partner or placing some cones or balls on the other side of the net you will bring your shot down more and get better control. The video link listed by aptennis91 is a good drill to do.

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:21 AM
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4667/77600428.png (http://img219.imageshack.us/i/77600428.png/)
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/165/77654973.png
By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03
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By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03
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By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03

aptennis91
08-03-2009, 05:21 AM
1.After watching your videos I agree with some of the above advice in that you need someone or something as a target. Right now you are just hitting without a specific goal. Having a target can help flatten your shot a little more. It appears that you always use a windshield wiper motion and it is hard for you to control it. By using a hitting partner or placing some cones or balls on the other side of the net you will bring your shot down more and get better control. The video link listed by aptennis91 is a good drill to do.

Does your ball machine also have a random option that gives random speed?
I think that would be a good addition to the drill.
So you get used to different speeds and using adjustments as a result.
Would be nice if you could get a video of yourself doing the drill too.
I bet lots of people would be able know a lot more about your forehand if you are moving and placing the ball.

P.S. Don't take this advice seriously without confirmation from other people on this post, but does it seem like IWISHIWASBETTER gets too low on the forehand (almost under the ball, if that's possible) and as a result, gets a little off-balanced, and forced to do a reverse finish? This might also be the reason why he waits for the ball to be almost behind him because it might be the contact zone for that kind of stance.
If you look at Federer, he gets a good knee bend and his arm reaches down, but his body stays almost upright. The only guy that kind of leans like IWISHIWASBETTER seems to be James Blake and I can't think of others.. What do you guys think about this? I don't want to give him the wrong impression.

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:22 AM
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7137/62209415.png
By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6128/56576250.png
By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03
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By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3880/85589405.png
By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:24 AM
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9138/66246797.png
By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-0http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5554/61370522.png
By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-038-03
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By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8353/67246774.png
By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:25 AM
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1124/60872442.png
By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03
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By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03
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By asv31692 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/asv31692) at 2009-08-03

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:26 AM
Does your ball machine also have a random option that gives random speed?
I think that would be a good addition to the drill.
So you get used to different speeds and using adjustments as a result.
Would be nice if you could get a video of yourself doing the drill too.
I bet lots of people would be able know a lot more about your forehand if you are moving and placing the ball.

thanks for the link from before , yes actaully it does, i forgot about that, ill try getting a video of me rallying with somebody and doing a drll too pretty soon. Moving to the ball and hitting would probably be much more beneficial like you said. thanks

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:30 AM
This is based on your 2 vids you posted a couple posts before. Your contact point..seems a little further back then it should be. Try to hit the ball further out in front of you, even in your reverse forehands (unless you're hitting reverse forehands to compensate for bad timing).

Here's a couple things i recommend. Learn how to hit the double bend forehand, and make sure your followthrough wraps around your body, you catch it in your left hand, or around your neck.

Your picture analysis looks like at the end of your backswing your arm is almost if not completely straight, and then during your forward swing your elbow bends to go to your contact point and then you hit the ball. Either learn how to hit a straight arm forehand or double bend forehard, or use them both, but don't combine them..well it doesn't look like that on your video..so im not too sure.

First off let me make sure i got this right..you hit with a eastern forehand grip, don't want to hit nadal style, and want to hit like verdasco maybe?

yes i do need to contact a little bit earlier, and i do hit the ball better when i catch te racket with my left hand, about the double bend/straight arm thing you were saying all i know is that if i try feeling a straight arm motion even if its not completly straight it seems like i hit the ball better, but am i still combining them in that picture sequence i just posted? I mean does it look wrong? and yes, i do hit with an eastern grip, and i dont know who i want to hit it like, in fact, i dont really care who i hit it like, but if i am hitting it similar to somebody please tell me so i can maybe compare my videos to theirs, but i am not trying to copy anyone, just hit it the best way i can. thanks again, oh yeah, i am leaning in teh picture sequence right, likei am leaning to the right in teh first few photos, was this what you were talking about?

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:31 AM
again, if anyone can offer some advice on my forehand in my last 2 videos and that picture sequence i just posted, that would be great. thank you

pvaudio
08-03-2009, 05:59 AM
I don't know why you're doing it, but you STILL have no balance. Why are you ending up only on your right foot? You do this every time. Some times, your left foot is more than a foot off the ground! Were you generating a lot of torque to pull your body into the air, I could understand that, but you aren't at that point yet, and even then, that would be both feet.

aptennis91
08-03-2009, 06:10 AM
I don't know why you're doing it, but you STILL have no balance. Why are you ending up only on your right foot? You do this every time. Some times, your left foot is more than a foot off the ground! Were you generating a lot of torque to pull your body into the air, I could understand that, but you aren't at that point yet, and even then, that would be both feet.

This is I think what I was getting to in my last post. You seem to be getting really low on the ball and leaning backwards at the same time. This is why your contact point is well behind the normal person. I'm not necessarily saying it's bad, since you get good power on your forehand, but in order to follow what other people have told you, I think you should concentrate on staying on balance with both feet.
Watch a lot of videos of federer, he's got a textbook forehand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSXkL7RMsdg&feature=related
This is a really good one, notice he doesn't lean back, but still gives a good knee bend. I kept that link bookmarked..:)

The forehand you seem to want, or at least you alluded to it is verdasco's forehand.
Watch this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBWrGtHIodQ
On the first forehand he hits, he's slightly out of position (meaning that the contact point is behind where he'd like it to be like Blake0 has said about your contact point) and must hit off balance, this is why his puts his balance mostly on his back foot like you do. BUT, on the next forehand, his balance is even or even more forward even though it's the same swing because he has time to prepare and load up on the forehand.

Hope this helps.

Bungalo Bill
08-03-2009, 07:03 AM
yes i do need to contact a little bit earlier, and i do hit the ball better when i catch te racket with my left hand, about the double bend/straight arm thing you were saying all i know is that if i try feeling a straight arm motion even if its not completly straight it seems like i hit the ball better, but am i still combining them in that picture sequence i just posted? I mean does it look wrong? and yes, i do hit with an eastern grip, and i dont know who i want to hit it like, in fact, i dont really care who i hit it like, but if i am hitting it similar to somebody please tell me so i can maybe compare my videos to theirs, but i am not trying to copy anyone, just hit it the best way i can. thanks again, oh yeah, i am leaning in teh picture sequence right, likei am leaning to the right in teh first few photos, was this what you were talking about?

Iwish,

There is a lot of advice flying around. Can we get back to what we know already. I didn't really appreciate people coming in here and derailing the advice we were building up.

The main things in your swing are:

1. Developing good shoulder rotation (front shoulder to chin, back shoulder to chin)

2. Staying on your toes. I might add staying "forward" on your toes.

3. Going through the ball and not doing a reverse or anything else like that.

I want you to get the feel of just hitting through the ball and your weight transfer slightly going forward when you hit the ball. If you use an open stance you should load on top of your right foot and transfer your rotation to land on your left foot to be evenly (or close to evenly) balanced on both feet for pushoff and recovery.

Here are some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n30yc9hd8GM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31IYa7VsZYg&feature=related

The open stance forehand is not a back foot heal stroke. This makes you fall backwards some which ends up supporting a short stroke WW or a Reverse forehand. Look at Rodgers right foot and notice it supports him OVER that foot and his weight is not going back or leaning back.

I don't want to work on footwork patterns yet. I want you to hit and extend.

Also, in the pictures above, I would like fo you to shorten your backswing a bit. Pretend a line is drawn from the net to the fence. Also, pretend you are standing on that line and are parallel to the net. Your toes are on the line. When you take your racquet back, your backswing should not go past that line.

What I don't want you to do is hit off your back foot which is what probably led to your reverse forehand. I want the ball feed to be slower and definetly something you can easily handle. I want you to move up closer to the baseline and I just want you to swing comfortably and relaxed through the ball. Lengthen your swing.

The WW and the Reverse will be incorporated later, however, I want you to feel what a more forward swing feels like. You dont have to muscle anything, just take the racquet back properly and rotate back into the ball.

Cnote
08-03-2009, 07:39 AM
Looking at your still photos I notice that the butt of your racquet is pointed almost perpindicular to the baseline at the end of your swing. A good piece of advice I received last year was keeping the butt facing towards your target. This is referred to the "flashlight" theory. This will help to shorten your backswing and keep from putting too much weight on that back foot. From your photos it almost looks as though your left foot comes completely off the ground during the backswing.

Blake0
08-03-2009, 09:27 AM
about the forehand, i think i do followthrough everytime now except when i do that stupid reverse thing , you can look at my last video to see, so are you talking about how i don't follow through all the way on my reverse? i don't think i do either, i see nadal extends all the way though and then goes over his head, while i just seem to go straight up.. hmm..not sure, ill put trying not to lean as a 1st priority and makin sure im following through next

Yeah u might be, i was just referring to the first video how you sometimes stopped half way. Your followthrough looked better on your 2-3rd videos.

Keeping balanced should be your first priority.

Blake0
08-03-2009, 09:36 AM
yes i do need to contact a little bit earlier, and i do hit the ball better when i catch te racket with my left hand, about the double bend/straight arm thing you were saying all i know is that if i try feeling a straight arm motion even if its not completly straight it seems like i hit the ball better, but am i still combining them in that picture sequence i just posted? I mean does it look wrong? and yes, i do hit with an eastern grip, and i dont know who i want to hit it like, in fact, i dont really care who i hit it like, but if i am hitting it similar to somebody please tell me so i can maybe compare my videos to theirs, but i am not trying to copy anyone, just hit it the best way i can. thanks again, oh yeah, i am leaning in teh picture sequence right, likei am leaning to the right in teh first few photos, was this what you were talking about?

K, well you are hitting the double bend..it just looked like your arm was straightened in your backswing at your first photo sequence..must have been the camera angle. Just stick with the double bend and forget about the straight arm for now. It's better not to feel the straight arm motion with the double bend. If hitting with double bend, the easiest way to maximize power and spin would be using the double bend motion.

Yes that's what i was talking about, it looks like because you lean to the right on your forehand, it causes you to go off balance, i may be wrong.

Blake0
08-03-2009, 09:50 AM
Your top 3 priorities for your forehand are
1. Keeping balance
2. Making it more efficient (so it's easier to hit, and doesn't require a lot of muscle-ing, it'll make it easier on the shoulder and biceps for you)
3. Learning one basic form of technique as your base. (sometimes seems you hit WW, other times it seems you hit classical)

Also maybe try posting a video from side view for a little bit? If others agree, i think it helps in a more technical point of view.

Something like this view but closer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0RaKvOChAQ

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 09:57 AM
Your top 3 priorities for your forehand are
1. Keeping balance
2. Making it more efficient (so it's easier to hit, and doesn't require a lot of muscle-ing, it'll make it easier on the shoulder and biceps for you)
3. Learning one basic form of technique as your base. (sometimes seems you hit WW, other times it seems you hit classical)

Also maybe try posting a video from side view for a little bit? If others agree, i think it helps in a more technical point of view.

Something like this view but closer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0RaKvOChAQ

im about to go and hit but keeping balance is definitely key, i hit this morning and focused on that when i was rallying with my friend and i started getting a lot more balls in play and started going more throught the ball too, i will try getting a side view either today or tomorrow, and i noticed that once i loosened up my arm and wrist i am no longer having any shoulder or bicep problems at all and my whole swing feels more connected and natural so right now i am just going to focus on staying balanced and going through the ball, and staying loose. thanks for all the responses everyone i have read them all and they really are helping me out gota go now though,

chico9166
08-03-2009, 10:02 AM
When you practice today, work on setting up the hitting arm structure sooner!

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 01:24 PM
ok having a good balance was the biggest key for me, everything felt connected and smooth when i was balanced, and power became much more effortless, i tried to keep my feet planted on the ground and even when i did jump both feet raised the same height so it still felt really balanced, this is something im gona have to keep working on if i want to improve,

i did get a short video of it although the angle wasn't good because i had to do it myself since my dad wasn't there, i was really exhausted since it was my 3rd hour in the heat but i think you can still see the differences in the form hopefully... my dad said he will video record me tonight so i will have a better video up soon, hopefully ill have enough energy to get out and play tonight though, ill upload it here in a little while or so..thanks

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:02 PM
i never got to go out and hit again today, and i was only able to get the last four forehands i hit earlier today on youtube, anyways here is the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YMsjVO-cNY

staying more balanced increase my consistency a ton, and my swing feels smoother and more effortless now, although i am still sure there is stuff left to change, so keep the advice coming, thanks

hahaha please ignore that last reverse forehand in that video

i will try getting that side view video of some running forehands and some forehands where i am moving and stuff pretty soon and a video of when i am rallying with someone, either tomorrow or the next day as long as the weather stays good

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 05:18 PM
gahh if you pause it on that 3rd open stance forehand you can see i do raise my left leg slightly, is this bad then?

aptennis91
08-03-2009, 05:58 PM
hey just out of curiosity IWISHIWASBETTER, where in Ohio do you live? (what city?) I live in Ohio also.

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 06:04 PM
hey just out of curiosity IWISHIWASBETTER, where in Ohio do you live? (what city?) I live in Ohio also.

well i live in pickerington, ohio. what about you

aptennis91
08-03-2009, 06:07 PM
I technically live in Columbus, but closer to Worthington.. if that makes sense. Maybe we could hit sometime. :)

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 06:14 PM
I technically live in Columbus, but closer to Worthington.. if that makes sense. Maybe we could hit sometime. :)

yeah thatd be cool, once i get this forehand down :twisted: haha

what school do you go to?

aptennis91
08-03-2009, 06:17 PM
I go to Thomas Worthington. Never really played tennis that intensely since I can't afford clubs and tournaments, but I'm gonna be a senior so I'm hoping to do well this season.

Blake0
08-03-2009, 06:21 PM
You seem to have improved on your balance, great job. You also don't lean as much and you're hitting through the ball well.

For your question about lifting your leg, it's okay in some situations, but make sure you don't always do it. If you have the chance to choose how you could hit, the better answer would be hitting balanced, rather then hitting unbalanced.

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 06:23 PM
You seem to have improved on your balance, great job. You also don't lean as much and you're hitting through the ball well.

For your question about lifting your leg, it's okay in some situations, but make sure you don't always do it. If you have the chance to choose how you could hit, the better answer would be hitting balanced, rather then hitting unbalanced.

thank you , i will try remaining more balanced then

IwishIwasbetter
08-03-2009, 06:52 PM
here is a link of a couple of my serves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Xu6khCyv8

any advice? my landing with my feet seems a bit funny..

again, i would rather have forehand advice right now so ill post the link of my last vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YMsjVO-cNY

Bungalo Bill
08-04-2009, 08:45 AM
i never got to go out and hit again today, and i was only able to get the last four forehands i hit earlier today on youtube, anyways here is the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YMsjVO-cNY

staying more balanced increase my consistency a ton, and my swing feels smoother and more effortless now, although i am still sure there is stuff left to change, so keep the advice coming, thanks

hahaha please ignore that last reverse forehand in that video

i will try getting that side view video of some running forehands and some forehands where i am moving and stuff pretty soon and a video of when i am rallying with someone, either tomorrow or the next day as long as the weather stays good

Hmmmm, sorry but your stroke did not look that much better. You are still rushing your shot and are flat footed in the stroke.

An open stance forehand is suppose to balance from one leg to both legs. An open stance forehand also needs to be executed from you handling your balance over mainly your toes.

You load over the back foot and then you rotate through the ball with your weight transferring back over to your front foot and usually it is at this time that you are balanced over your feet again.

The little step that is performed by your left leg is your timing foot. This helps you time the incoming ball. If you continue with the balanced approach to an open stance you could wind up with a right hip injury. You are still flat footed and when your stroke is stressed, you will fall back like you normally do which causes you to do the reverse forehand.

The information I gave you previously is what you should be working on.

You should be working on:

1. Balancing yourself over your toes. Loading on the back leg and tranferring your angular momentum forward and up so you can land on both feet for your pushoff and recovery.

2. Your front shoulder needs to rotate under your chin. As you swing forward, your back shoulder goes back under your chin for good rotation of the shoulders. This also helps you not open up too quick.

3. Your racquet takeback is too much. You need to use the imaginary line to fine tune your backswing. Part of the reason you lean back is because of your backswing.

4. Your non-dominant arm needs to be more active in the backswing of your motion. It needs to stretch out more to help your balance and when you swing forward it folds back into your body.

5. You need to slow down your swing and work on the things that help you execute a good stroke. Work on extension, a smooth and contolled swing. Work on using your feet and your legs in the stroke.

6. You also need to move closer to the baseline because you are taking balls as they are dropping or have dropped considerably. Handling a dropping ball will cause you to swing harder and you will take less balls in the strike zone of your grip unless you have excellent movement and good ball judgement. A dropping ball can also be hard to judge as far as declining speed. Step up toward the baseline and handle more balls as they rise or reach their apex and have decline a little.

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 12:16 PM
Hmmmm, sorry but your stroke did not look that much better. You are still rushing your shot and are flat footed in the stroke.

An open stance forehand is suppose to balance from one leg to both legs. An open stance forehand also needs to be executed from you handling your balance over mainly your toes.

You load over the back foot and then you rotate through the ball with your weight transferring back over to your front foot and usually it is at this time that you are balanced over your feet again.

The little step that is performed by your left leg is your timing foot. This helps you time the incoming ball. If you continue with the balanced approach to an open stance you could wind up with a right hip injury. You are still flat footed and when your stroke is stressed, you will fall back like you normally do which causes you to do the reverse forehand.

The information I gave you previously is what you should be working on.

You should be working on:

1. Balancing yourself over your toes. Loading on the back leg and tranferring your angular momentum forward and up so you can land on both feet for your pushoff and recovery.

2. Your front shoulder needs to rotate under your chin. As you swing forward, your back shoulder goes back under your chin for good rotation of the shoulders. This also helps you not open up too quick.

3. Your racquet takeback is too much. You need to use the imaginary line to fine tune your backswing. Part of the reason you lean back is because of your backswing.

4. Your non-dominant arm needs to be more active in the backswing of your motion. It needs to stretch out more to help your balance and when you swing forward it folds back into your body.

5. You need to slow down your swing and work on the things that help you execute a good stroke. Work on extension, a smooth and contolled swing. Work on using your feet and your legs in the stroke.

6. You also need to move closer to the baseline because you are taking balls as they are dropping or have dropped considerably. Handling a dropping ball will cause you to swing harder and you will take less balls in the strike zone of your grip unless you have excellent movement and good ball judgement. A dropping ball can also be hard to judge as far as declining speed. Step up toward the baseline and handle more balls as they rise or reach their apex and have decline a little.

i will post my video clip here in a minute of my hitting today, but of the 6 things you mentioned, it looks like i did number 1 a lot better, and number 2 because i see my shoulder rotating under my chin, and it looks like i do number 6 way better today because i actually prefer the high ball now after changing my technique and its easier for me to hit on the rise now, i will try working on number 4 though, and, about number 3, does my backswing still seem excessive in the video im about to post, and am i still doing the open stance wrong? thanks again for all the help and time you are putting in, the link is in the next post

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 12:19 PM
whoops, link is below...

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 12:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13SyJJgHfy0 please give me more advice everyone, especially on my forehand, as you can see a couple of them in the video are hit really well, but it can still improve a ton im sure, thank you

Bungalo Bill
08-04-2009, 05:12 PM
whoops, link is below...

Non-dominant arm stretch and front shoulder under the chin.

http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Instruction_Articles/Forehand/2006_12_15_nadal_1.jpg

This is what I mean about getting that non-dominant arm involved more and more stretched out.

Also note the backswing, as Nadal drops the racquet into the slot it will stay on the same side of the body and then go forward.

Extension is what you need to do with the ball. Your movement over your toes helps you get into position, plant, and then launch the back shoulder into the ball with extension. Even with the WW there is still extension.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:l3-EGSQl_pLI0M:http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/07/06/article-1032473-01DDED9000000578-414_468x603.jpg

Non-dominant arm is folded back into the body as the hitting arm goes forward. Back shoulder rotates back into the ball. Your non-dominant arm helps you not rotate out too soon or overrotate.

Bungalo Bill
08-04-2009, 05:23 PM
This is how far your backswing goes:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3138/38476421.png

This is how far Nadals backswing goes and he hits harder than you.

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:2-bLmFRlGQdcHM:http://image60.webshots.com/660/2/8/31/2098208310042577542AJdRtX_ph.jpg

Another

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1120/1330680653_c0ba1bd47a.jpg

Try and lay the racquet down to the "pat the dog on the head" on the same side of the body as much as possible. Any further and your timing and consistency will suffer. You must generate power from your legs which is why you need to be on your toes.

Bungalo Bill
08-04-2009, 05:29 PM
http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Rafael_Nadal_Rome2009_APphoto_CarloBaroncini_Racqu etPreparation.jpg

1. Racquet on the same side of the body.

2. On the toes.

3. Non-dominant arm out stretched.

4. Shoulder under the chin.

5. Loading on the back leg.

6. Posture is upright and ready to go forward and up.

However, since he is on his toes and is not flat footed or on his heels, NAdal will be able to rotate his back shoulder through the ball without overrotating (or leaning backwards) which is helped being controlled by the non-dominant arm.

aptennis91
08-04-2009, 05:53 PM
http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Rafael_Nadal_Rome2009_APphoto_CarloBaroncini_Racqu etPreparation.jpg

1. Racquet on the same side of the body.

2. On the toes.

3. Non-dominant arm out stretched.

4. Shoulder under the chin.

5. Loading on the back leg.

6. Posture is upright and ready to go forward and up.

However, since he is on his toes and is not flat footed or on his heels, NAdal will be able to rotate his back shoulder through the ball without overrotating (or leaning backwards) which is helped being controlled by the non-dominant arm.

Wow... the absolute master of forehand advice. lol Just lucky to be getting these tips without paying. :)

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 07:27 PM
http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Rafael_Nadal_Rome2009_APphoto_CarloBaroncini_Racqu etPreparation.jpg

1. Racquet on the same side of the body.

2. On the toes.

3. Non-dominant arm out stretched.

4. Shoulder under the chin.

5. Loading on the back leg.

6. Posture is upright and ready to go forward and up.

However, since he is on his toes and is not flat footed or on his heels, NAdal will be able to rotate his back shoulder through the ball without overrotating (or leaning backwards) which is helped being controlled by the non-dominant arm.

i am going to post my thoughts on the six things you mentioned, by the way did you look at my last video? because some things were changed

on number 1, about having the racket on the same side of the body in the backswing, i was just comparing my forehands to gilles simon side by side because he seems to hit more similarly to me compared to any other pro and what i noticed was he takes the exact same backswing as me, i mean he goes just as far back as i do, ( look at 2nd forehand here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXzikzcHqNA , looks very similar to my forehands in my last video) i don't think it is necessary i change my backswing it felt very smooth and natural and doesn't look excessive, plus i don't hit the ball like nadal at all anyway, but if you believe and are confident that if i change my backswing so my racket is always on the same side of my body even at the very end of the backswing, then can you please explain yourself and why i may be wrong and i will try changing it but for now i am going to assume its not necessary

on number 2, i am on my toes at the end of my backswing too..i am about to post pics of my forehand so you can see what i mean

on number 3 and 4, my non dominant arm is extended out with my shoulder under my chin, again you will see this in the photos i am about to post

on number 5, well, it looks like i load the back leg to me, but i guess i could do it more?

on number 6, my posture looks upright to me as you will see in the pictures.

About the pat the dog on the head thing, i also see myself doing that, but i guess you are saying i don't do it on the right side of my body?

I am going to post a photo sequence of a forehand that i hit in the video, and i think i , for the most part, am doing everything you said.. anyways, i am not trying to argue with you in any way at all, just posting my thoughts, we are lucky to have someone like you who is willing to post great advice on a consistent basis. Thank you

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 07:39 PM
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9302/68359210.png (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/68359210.png/)

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/851/47645373.png (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/47645373.png/)

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/851/47645373.png (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/47645373.png/)

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9734/48995865.png (http://img527.imageshack.us/i/48995865.png/)

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 07:40 PM
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/369/55273475.png (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/55273475.png/)

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3113/18332702.png (http://img518.imageshack.us/i/18332702.png/)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6068/86726152.png (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/86726152.png/)

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6857/36129672.png (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/36129672.png/)

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 07:41 PM
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/732/31723883.png (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/31723883.png/)

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 07:42 PM
the forehand in the photos looks very similar to gilles' second forehand he hits in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXzikzcHqNA , if anyone can post some advice on how to hit more like gilles or better in general, once again, please do...

Bungalo Bill
08-04-2009, 07:47 PM
i am going to post my thoughts on the six things you mentioned, by the way did you look at my last video? because some things were changed

on number 1, about having the racket on the same side of the body in the backswing, i was just comparing my forehands to gilles simon side by side because he seems to hit more similarly to me compared to any other pro and what i noticed was he takes the exact same backswing as me, i mean he goes just as far back as i do, ( look at 2nd forehand here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXzikzcHqNA , looks very similar to my forehands in my last video) i don't think it is necessary i change my backswing it felt very smooth and natural and doesn't look excessive

So let me get this straight. You are analyzing what I analyzed to see if I got it right? LOL!

Are you kidding me? Please dont think that you are able to analyze your own swing because if you were able to you wouldnt be asking for help and you wouldnt have such an inconsistent and poorly executed forehand.

Your backswing is a bit too much and if you want to pick a player out of you butt to show me that you dont need to change it because such-and-such does it even though he doesn't, go right ahead dude!

If you don't want advice perhaps you shouldn't ask for it.

Additionally, if you think you hit a consistent forehand and do all of the above all the time for every ball besides hitting on a damn ball machine, you are fooling yourself. And if you think I am picking Nadal because I think you hit like Nadal, you obviously don't know me. Please don't flatter yourself in thinking I think you hit like any pro player.

Your little reverse fall-on-your-*** forehands and your crummy WW isn't even close to a pro, even the pro you think you hit like.

You have your tips to hit a consistent forehand. I could give a darn if you can do it on a couple hits on the ball machine with your little pictures. You need to do it all the damn time. It is the very thing you are not doing consistently.

Good luck pal.

IwishIwasbetter
08-04-2009, 08:18 PM
So let me get this straight. You are analyzing what I analyzed to see if I got it right? LOL!

Are you kidding me? Please dont think that you are able to analyze your own swing because if you were able to you wouldnt be asking for help and you wouldnt have such an inconsistent and poorly executed forehand.

Your backswing is a bit too much and if you want to pick a player out of you butt to show me that you dont need to change it because such-and-such does it even though he doesn't, go right ahead dude!

If you don't want advice perhaps you shouldn't ask for it.

Additionally, if you think you hit a consistent forehand and do all of the above all the time for every ball besides hitting on a damn ball machine, you are fooling yourself. And if you think I am picking Nadal because I think you hit like Nadal, you obviously don't know me. Please don't flatter yourself in thinking I think you hit like any pro player.

Your little reverse fall-on-your-*** forehands and your crummy WW isn't even close to a pro, even the pro you think you hit like.

You have your tips to hit a consistent forehand. I could give a darn if you can do it on a couple hits on the ball machine with your little pictures. You need to do it all the damn time. It is the very thing you are not doing consistently.

Good luck pal.

ok, sorry if i offended you, that is the last thing i wanted to do, thanks for posting advice throughout the thread, and i was just posting my thoughts, i never said my thoughts were right or wrong, and they may very well be wrong... i will try shortening up my backswing some and see how it goes...and i am well aware i am not even anywhere near hitting the ball like a pro, i never meant to come across that way,

sorry bill

VaBeachTennis
08-05-2009, 07:40 AM
thanks for the link from before , yes actaully it does, i forgot about that, ill try getting a video of me rallying with somebody and doing a drll too pretty soon. Moving to the ball and hitting would probably be much more beneficial like you said. thanks

Besides the footwork on that video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPCY1PNAYqE&feature=fvw ) check out Will's balance, posture, and swing, when he's hitting the ball. Good luck.

Bungalo Bill
08-05-2009, 12:18 PM
ok, sorry if i offended you, that is the last thing i wanted to do, thanks for posting advice throughout the thread, and i was just posting my thoughts, i never said my thoughts were right or wrong, and they may very well be wrong... i will try shortening up my backswing some and see how it goes...and i am well aware i am not even anywhere near hitting the ball like a pro, i never meant to come across that way,

sorry bill

That is okay. However, you need to understand something. Just because you do certain things in a picture on a certain ball, does not mean you do it all the time. You may lay your racquet in the "pat-the-dog-on-the-head" position all the time, but you may not execute your front shoulder under the chin on every shot. Further, you may miss getting on your toes when you hit multiple balls in a row (like 20).

The steps and information I provided are things that your stroke must do all the time. Every single ball and throughout every single rally. If your stroke is inconsistent, you don't prepare in time, you don't load and tranfer weight properly on every ball, it will cause other things to happen and you will improperly compensate - like rush your stroke and arm it.

I realize you do things at times, we all do. However, the things I mentioned are to be part of your stroke all the time on every ball and practiced under stress so your stroke doesn't break down after the third ball.

That picture on Nadal is not about Nadal or you. It is about having good form in the shot and our ability to show you what it looks like. I am not looking at Nadals Western grip, clay court, or WW motion. I am looking at his body shape at that moment in time and it is sound. You can see it is a disciplined and practiced display of sound fundamentals that every player should have.

Here is Moya:

http://www.dongbar.com/wangqiu/images/Tech/moya_opengait_forehand.jpg

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Rafael_Nadal_Rome2009_APphoto_CarloBaroncini_Racqu etPreparation.jpg

I would never ever turn you into Nadal or any other person. You have to develop your own personality and style in your strokes. However, you need to develop that within good fundamentals that are common amongst disciplined and well practiced players.

fruitytennis1
08-05-2009, 12:29 PM
Try bending your legs and not your upper body. Also dont try and defuzz the ball every time you hit it just hit normal rally balls, once you get into the flow then go for harder stuff. Sound good.

IwishIwasbetter
08-05-2009, 03:31 PM
That is okay. However, you need to understand something. Just because you do certain things in a picture on a certain ball, does not mean you do it all the time. You may lay your racquet in the "pat-the-dog-on-the-head" position all the time, but you may not execute your front shoulder under the chin on every shot. Further, you may miss getting on your toes when you hit multiple balls in a row (like 20).

The steps and information I provided are things that your stroke must do all the time. Every single ball and throughout every single rally. If your stroke is inconsistent, you don't prepare in time, you don't load and tranfer weight properly on every ball, it will cause other things to happen and you will improperly compensate - like rush your stroke and arm it.

I realize you do things at times, we all do. However, the things I mentioned are to be part of your stroke all the time on every ball and practiced under stress so your stroke doesn't break down after the third ball.

That picture on Nadal is not about Nadal or you. It is about having good form in the shot and our ability to show you what it looks like. I am not looking at Nadals Western grip, clay court, or WW motion. I am looking at his body shape at that moment in time and it is sound. You can see it is a disciplined and practiced display of sound fundamentals that every player should have.

Here is Moya:

http://www.dongbar.com/wangqiu/images/Tech/moya_opengait_forehand.jpg

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Rafael_Nadal_Rome2009_APphoto_CarloBaroncini_Racqu etPreparation.jpg

I would never ever turn you into Nadal or any other person. You have to develop your own personality and style in your strokes. However, you need to develop that within good fundamentals that are common amongst disciplined and well practiced players.

ok thanks i am going to try and work on all 6 of those things you said earlier until i can do it consistently especially since i didn't play too well today i will try getting a video tomorrow, i have a question for you, is the forehand an unnatural stroke, or is it just like that for me? the backhand seems much more natural...

chico9166
08-05-2009, 04:06 PM
You're definately on the right track. Keep working at it.

Bungalo Bill
08-05-2009, 05:02 PM
ok thanks i am going to try and work on all 6 of those things you said earlier until i can do it consistently especially since i didn't play too well today i will try getting a video tomorrow, i have a question for you, is the forehand an unnatural stroke, or is it just like that for me? the backhand seems much more natural...

Many players find the forehand easier to learn. However, many experts say the backhand is more natural to how the body works.

Perhaps the forehand is easier to learn because the back eye is somewhat linked to the back shoulder/arm for timing so depth perception is easier to manage. This might have something to do with a twohanded backhand being easier to learn than a oneanded backhand.

Your forehand will be fine if you keep working on the points listed. It may never be your best stroke, but it certainly can improve and become more consistent.

user92626
08-05-2009, 05:13 PM
Many players find the forehand easier to learn. However, many experts say the backhand is more natural to how the body works.



That's surprising to know. I would think the FH is the most natural since there are so many activities we do in life resembling that motion. Don't farmers, shephers whip livestocks' or herd's asses in the same way? Chop woods, hit drums, instruments, nail house frames, wipe tables, etc.?

VaBeachTennis
08-05-2009, 05:20 PM
Well I am not a pro but it looks to me like your still muscling the ball and gripping the racquet way to hard. Your swing should be really lose like a pendulum. It needs to be free and flowing..

Something David Sammel does with his beginners (a top english coach) is do a pendulum kinda swing to warm up. He emphasizes how you really want to feel the weight of the racquet..

Pete

Hey, I'm glad to see that you checked those videos out. Some of the other thing I like about what Sammel stresses is the "flexible triangle" and "chin and nose over toes". Did you check out "Tennis Guru", made by one of our forum members here? I think that a lot of folks here could also benefit from Avery's videos as well.

Bungalo Bill
08-05-2009, 05:39 PM
That's surprising to know. I would think the FH is the most natural since there are so many activities we do in life resembling that motion. Don't farmers, shephers whip livestocks' or herd's asses in the same way? Chop woods, hit drums, instruments, nail house frames, wipe tables, etc.?

Some biomechanic experts think the backhand is more of a natural swing because the swing moves away from our body rather than across it. I don't know. Who knows.