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SoCal10s
08-02-2009, 01:05 PM
USA college tennis recruiting system needs a slap in the face.. the more I see those ITFs kids get full rides into nice universities,this leaves me sick to my stomach... I really feel for all our homegrowns..everyone works so hard for so many years and spends so much time,effort,money and sacrifices to get a college tennis scholarship and our college system rather just look at the ITF rankings and skip our homegrowns .. this happens all the time in the men's and women's program and it is rather sickening to have this happen.. foreign student have not put out 1 contribution in this country but they can get all the benefits,just because the coaches are pressured to recruit better players to win,at all cost.. what happened to buy USA ? I hope this stuff changes real fast because it's just not fair..

pricey_aus
08-02-2009, 01:48 PM
Why don't you just get out there and play some ITFs? Im sure theres heaps around America that you could go out and get some points in.

jaggy
08-02-2009, 02:59 PM
I may be wrong but I dont think theres all that many full rides on the men's side.

tennismom42
08-02-2009, 03:41 PM
I may be wrong but I dont think theres all that many full rides on the men's side.

you are correct. I've heard of only one for the class of 2009

Remember, men's teams get 4.5 scholarships to spread among the team (of 7 -11 players)

tennismom42
08-02-2009, 03:45 PM
USA college tennis recruiting system needs a slap in the face.. the more I see those ITFs kids get full rides into nice universities,this leaves me sick to my stomach... I really feel for all our homegrowns..everyone works so hard for so many years and spends so much time,effort,money and sacrifices to get a college tennis scholarship and our college system rather just look at the ITF rankings and skip our homegrowns .. this happens all the time in the men's and women's program and it is rather sickening to have this happen.. foreign student have not put out 1 contribution in this country but they can get all the benefits,just because the coaches are pressured to recruit better players to win,at all cost.. what happened to buy USA ? I hope this stuff changes real fast because it's just not fair..

What I don't understand is why some coaches default to assume foreigners are better players. I can't think of any statistical way to compare an ITF player to a USTA player. I know some coaches that inherited teams with lots of foreigners and they desperately want to shake that label. But they can't because the American kids won't apply for their schools (because they assume the school won't take Americans). I've had two coaches tell me they just can't get any Americans to apply.

I think there's a lot of assuming going on....

duusoo
08-02-2009, 04:06 PM
I think a big problem is the ranking system of the USTA. Living in America you can buy the car and house you want, and practically the rank you want. We give points to players for being entered in an event. Today players are at K-Zoo, who ten years ago wouldn't be. Players who would be 4 on their HS team, but are home schooled, and play at every tournament possible. It favors kids who have means. So, when things are equal, the foreign players perform better. The USTA has compromised things to such a degree you can't trust a US ranking. I'm sorry, but its just the way it is.

ClarkC
08-02-2009, 06:08 PM
I think a big problem is the ranking system of the USTA. Living in America you can buy the car and house you want, and practically the rank you want. We give points to players for being entered in an event. Today players are at K-Zoo, who ten years ago wouldn't be. Players who would be 4 on their HS team, but are home schooled, and play at every tournament possible. It favors kids who have means. So, when things are equal, the foreign players perform better. The USTA has compromised things to such a degree you can't trust a US ranking. I'm sorry, but its just the way it is.

No college coach gives out scholarships to anyone based on a USTA ranking without looking at their head to head results and gauging their talent.

Sorry, but your post comes across as someone who wants to whine about the USTA ranking system and is trying to fit the whine into a thread that is unrelated. Players have to win head to head matches against significant opponents to get scholarship offers, not just enter tournaments.

mutantducky
08-02-2009, 06:09 PM
they do it sometime in basketball as well. Some Euro players can't play at all but get the money

tennismom42
08-02-2009, 06:50 PM
I think a big problem is the ranking system of the USTA. Living in America you can buy the car and house you want, and practically the rank you want. We give points to players for being entered in an event. Today players are at K-Zoo, who ten years ago wouldn't be. Players who would be 4 on their HS team, but are home schooled, and play at every tournament possible. It favors kids who have means. So, when things are equal, the foreign players perform better. The USTA has compromised things to such a degree you can't trust a US ranking. I'm sorry, but its just the way it is.... don't get me started. If you're going to complain about the USTA ranking system, get in line behind me. We learned how it works and used it to our advantage. I doubt anyone has capitalized on the PPR ranking system more than us: always play doubles, play everything you can possibly drive to, play compass draws, play both age divisions. Wait a minute..... playing more is admitedly good for developing quality players.

But it did feel like chasing good money after bad. It felt like (dilusional) people are chasing ranking points, while we pay for that new USTA stadium in FL to train the golden children. (we were often dilusional.) Am I a jealous, player-hater for it? Sometimes. While it's good to aim high, I think reasonable goals must be determined & re-determined on a monthly basis. Tennis has so many ups & downs.

My biggest complaint is the absence of the doubles rankings. Many coaches are looking for doubles specialists, while many good doubles players would like to be able to find a college team. If the USTA thinks doubles are so important to the singles development, they should respect it (with the other side of the mouth) by maintaining a doubles ranking.

HINT TO RECRUITS: present yourself as a doubles specialist

dennis10is
08-02-2009, 09:16 PM
USA college tennis recruiting system needs a slap in the face.. the more I see those ITFs kids get full rides into nice universities,this leaves me sick to my stomach... I really feel for all our homegrowns..everyone works so hard for so many years and spends so much time,effort,money and sacrifices to get a college tennis scholarship and our college system rather just look at the ITF rankings and skip our homegrowns .. this happens all the time in the men's and women's program and it is rather sickening to have this happen.. foreign student have not put out 1 contribution in this country but they can get all the benefits,just because the coaches are pressured to recruit better players to win,at all cost.. what happened to buy USA ? I hope this stuff changes real fast because it's just not fair..

I guess I'll buy USA when all the other countries will do the same. Whoops, I didn't mean that they will also buy USA but they'll buy only their own stuff.

Which means that there will be no trade at all. We can just all buy everything made in the USA and China will make everything for themselves.

I guess we can also extend it so that if say some other country discover say a cure for lung cancer, they can just keep it to themselves.

We have to shut down TW because it is any American company and the other country will of course buy only stuff from their own.

We could also banned Federer or Nadal or any foreign players from competing on American soil. After all, it would patriotic to just root for Andy Roddick.

We should stop listening of any music made or perform by foreigners. Stop drinking wine because it was invented by foreigners, same goes for coffee or tea. Of course, we still have coca cola and pepsi.

Obviously, we will not visit other countries nor will we have any foreigners visit us.

goober
08-02-2009, 10:28 PM
USA college tennis recruiting system needs a slap in the face.. the more I see those ITFs kids get full rides into nice universities,this leaves me sick to my stomach... I really feel for all our homegrowns..everyone works so hard for so many years and spends so much time,effort,money and sacrifices to get a college tennis scholarship and our college system rather just look at the ITF rankings and skip our homegrowns .. this happens all the time in the men's and women's program and it is rather sickening to have this happen.. foreign student have not put out 1 contribution in this country but they can get all the benefits,just because the coaches are pressured to recruit better players to win,at all cost.. what happened to buy USA ? I hope this stuff changes real fast because it's just not fair..

Life is not fair. Nobody owes you anything. Better learn the lesson now. American college sports are about winning especially at schools which give out full scholies. Why do schools give out sports scholarships? To build winning programs not to support American tennis parents. I don't see that changing any time in the near future. If anything tennis scholies may be harder to get as programs get cut and less monies are available in the current economy.

There are lots of different ways to get money for college. A men's tennis scholarship is probably one of the least cost effective ways. Instead of whining about it, plan for the future.

duusoo
08-03-2009, 04:22 AM
No college coach gives out scholarships to anyone based on a USTA ranking without looking at their head to head results and gauging their talent.

Sorry, but your post comes across as someone who wants to whine about the USTA ranking system and is trying to fit the whine into a thread that is unrelated. Players have to win head to head matches against significant opponents to get scholarship offers, not just enter tournaments.
Boy, do I wish it were just whining on my part. Read other posts. Certainly not major D1 programs, but, many of the lesser schools do this. Yes, the coach should know the opponents, etc.., but that just isn't always the case. Some of the coaches aren't even full time. The USTA ranking system is full of flaws, and yes it does reward the player who just enters, and enters, which ultimately translates into financial resources.

ClarkC
08-03-2009, 05:32 AM
Boy, do I wish it were just whining on my part. Read other posts. Certainly not major D1 programs, but, many of the lesser schools do this. Yes, the coach should know the opponents, etc.., but that just isn't always the case. Some of the coaches aren't even full time. The USTA ranking system is full of flaws, and yes it does reward the player who just enters, and enters, which ultimately translates into financial resources.

If you are going to repeat nonsense, I guess I will have to repeat my reply and re-phrase it.

Please tell me of one coach who cares about the USTA ranking system rather than (1) using tennisrecruiting.net rankings, and (2) looking at head to head results, and (3) watching potential recruits play.

The USTA ranking system is irrelevant to a discussion of why college coaches recruit foreign players.

fuggy
08-03-2009, 11:27 AM
Life is not fair. Nobody owes you anything. Better learn the lesson now. American college sports are about winning especially at schools which give out full scholies.

There are lots of different ways to get money for college. A men's tennis scholarship is probably one of the least cost effective ways. Instead of whining about it, plan for the future.

I am getting pretty tired of hearing this argument. This argument is always used against middle class Americans. Apparently everyone else in the world except hard-working middle class Americans deserve things.

The big banks deserved a taxpayer bailout. Sugar farmers deserve a subsidy.
Iraq deserved a trillion dollars from us. Nasa engineers deserve taxpayer money.
Afghanistan deserves a trillion dollars from us.
Free health care is for members of congress, the military, the dirt poor, the elderly, prisoners, federal workers, indians and public school workers but middle class Americans are at the mercy of the free medical market.

IMHO there is no reason for American universities to give scholarships to foreigners. Donors can stipulate that their donation only go to an American passport holder who plays tennis. Easy as that.

Foreign donors to American Universities can stipulate to whom they wish their scholarships go to, too.

duusoo
08-03-2009, 02:32 PM
If you are going to repeat nonsense, I guess I will have to repeat my reply and re-phrase it.

Please tell me of one coach who cares about the USTA ranking system rather than (1) using tennisrecruiting.net rankings, and (2) looking at head to head results, and (3) watching potential recruits play.

The USTA ranking system is irrelevant to a discussion of why college coaches recruit foreign players.
This is your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. Under no circumstances wpuld I identify the schools that I know of that do this. But they do. Would you give a full scholarship to a player that lost in the first round of a State Tournament to a #2 player. Yes, I am talking full scholarship to a player that went out in the first round against a weaker player, in fact the same player both years. Does this make sense? The coaches justification was she plays USTA tournaments. She never beat a seeded player in any tournament. Let it go, some coaches are rookies, and haven't a clue.

deddied
08-03-2009, 05:39 PM
Why don't you just get out there and play some ITFs? Im sure theres heaps around America that you could go out and get some points in.

Not really, there is only like 5 itf tourneys, and those cost moola.

goober
08-04-2009, 06:13 AM
I am getting pretty tired of hearing this argument. This argument is always used against middle class Americans. Apparently everyone else in the world except hard-working middle class Americans deserve things.

The big banks deserved a taxpayer bailout. Sugar farmers deserve a subsidy.
Iraq deserved a trillion dollars from us. Nasa engineers deserve taxpayer money.
Afghanistan deserves a trillion dollars from us.
Free health care is for members of congress, the military, the dirt poor, the elderly, prisoners, federal workers, indians and public school workers but middle class Americans are at the mercy of the free medical market.

IMHO there is no reason for American universities to give scholarships to foreigners. Donors can stipulate that their donation only go to an American passport holder who plays tennis. Easy as that.

Foreign donors to American Universities can stipulate to whom they wish their scholarships go to, too.

Wow talk about going off on a tangent. Well you either can complain about the system or do something about your situation given the circumstances you find yourself in. At least you live in a country where sports scholarships for colleges are possible.

If you are so upset with donors not putting stipulations on their funds they donate, go talk to them. Good luck in trying to tell wealthy people how to spend their money.

papatenis
08-04-2009, 09:02 AM
some of the reasons why coaches like foreign players are:
-have profession experience
-older/mature
-coaches dont have to hold their hand
-more independent
-willing to practice harder
-more appreciative for scholarship
-coaches don't have to deal with parents
there are many more reasons why, but i personally think that schools should limit the number of scholarships given to foreign students.
my son was a junior player, not great, but was important player on high school team that won the state championship in back to back years.
though he wanted to play tennis in college, the college he choose to attend was based on the major he was interested in. the school is a div. 1 in which half of the tennis team is from another country. i think he could've made the team, but with the foreign players, didnt have a chance.
i have a daughter who is looking for a college to play at. did you know that scholarships for females are for 4 years and they can't split the scholarships.
Best of all, most schools have 8 full scholarships to give. we looked at one small div.1 school in norcal, the team was made up of all foreigner. coach was also a foreign. you never see this coach recruiting at nat'l tournaments!

5263
08-04-2009, 09:26 AM
......................

5263
08-04-2009, 09:38 AM
The point is something needs to be done to fix this very broken system that hurts American tennis.

TennisTaxi
08-04-2009, 10:08 AM
I've had two coaches tell me they just can't get any Americans to apply.

I think there's a lot of assuming going on....

Would you care to share which colleges would like Americans to apply?

fuggy
08-04-2009, 02:29 PM
Wow talk about going off on a tangent. Well you either can complain about the system or do something about your situation given the circumstances you find yourself in. .

Let us make this more concrete. Universities suck off the teet of the American taxpayer by not paying property taxes. Universities do not pay taxes. They pay no taxes on their billions of investment profits. Benefiting from taxpayer backed loans. Universities are given this special treatment because they are supposed to be educating AMERICANS.

Write your congressman. Tell him to take away all special tax-escaping privileges of universities that give scholarships to foreign nationals. If they are not in the business of educating Americans, then let foreignors support them.

fuggy
08-04-2009, 02:34 PM
"foreigners"

ClarkC
08-05-2009, 06:32 PM
i have a daughter who is looking for a college to play at. did you know that scholarships for females are for 4 years and they can't split the scholarships.


It is true that scholarships for girls are not split, but I am not sure what you mean about them being for four years. All athletic scholarships must be renewed annually in every sport. It is rare for them to not be renewed, but I can assure you that it happens.

jaggy
08-06-2009, 06:34 AM
I think there is a great argument that American college students benefit from the diversity that people from other cultures bring to the classroom.

T E N N I S
08-06-2009, 08:43 AM
You guys are saying these things as if foreigners aren't great tennis players.

arunstennis
08-06-2009, 10:02 AM
haha these kids are even coming to our schools, at a local school nearby which one president obama visited after visiting the hell hole known has the cleveland clinic(haha guess), they were stacked their whole team from #1 singles(5 star recruit) to 1st doubles(both 1 star recruits) and in between a 3 star and 2 star, then to add to that they got this foregin exchange student who made it to states and went back to Argentina. their team came in second place at div. 1 states too not to mention they had 4 kids go to states and their #1 finished 4th at states

sureshs
08-06-2009, 11:58 AM
USA college tennis recruiting system needs a slap in the face.. the more I see those ITFs kids get full rides into nice universities,this leaves me sick to my stomach... I really feel for all our homegrowns..everyone works so hard for so many years and spends so much time,effort,money and sacrifices to get a college tennis scholarship and our college system rather just look at the ITF rankings and skip our homegrowns .. this happens all the time in the men's and women's program and it is rather sickening to have this happen.. foreign student have not put out 1 contribution in this country but they can get all the benefits,just because the coaches are pressured to recruit better players to win,at all cost.. what happened to buy USA ? I hope this stuff changes real fast because it's just not fair..

Lots of Americans buy foreign cars and gadgets and clothes made in Asia. Just like other countries buy software, servers, military equipment, planes and a whole bunch of other stuff from the US. Your comparison should not be about "buying."

I have analyzed this situation in detail before, and it is a combination of availablity of scholarships in US vs in Europe, more state funding in Europe for tennis, secondary school ending with grade 10 in parts of Europe vs 12 in US, and the popularity of other sports in the US and the image of a tennis player as a geek.

jmhs
08-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Let us make this more concrete. Universities suck off the teet of the American taxpayer by not paying property taxes. Universities do not pay taxes. They pay no taxes on their billions of investment profits. Benefiting from taxpayer backed loans. Universities are given this special treatment because they are supposed to be educating AMERICANS.

Write your congressman. Tell him to take away all special tax-escaping privileges of universities that give scholarships to foreign nationals. If they are not in the business of educating Americans, then let foreignors support them.

Putting aside the fact that I'm a rising hs junior who would love to maximize my potential as a college tennis player, fuggy's facts(?) sound really convincing to me. I guess the reason things are the way they are (foreign players get the scholarships) is that U.S. taxpayers couldn't care less about college tennis (lol...ouch). In the bigger scheme of things (accusations of U.S. jobs being outsourced to foreign countries, etc.), I guess I understand why.

What is the counterargument to fuggy's facts? We're a very free country that rewards excellence no matter the source (even if we're kinda shooting ourselves in the foot)?

fruitytennis1
08-07-2009, 06:23 PM
The freeness is destroying america!!!!
Admit it you know it is!!!
Not saying we should become communist or anything but socialist(here comes the comments) wouldnt be a bad thing. Before you shout at me know what socialist is plz plz plz know what it means.

blue12
08-08-2009, 02:42 PM
Ok news flash! The reason coaches go for foreign players is that they get recruiting trips to those countries during the summer. Where would you rather spend a vacation in Arkansas or Europe.
Just as pitiful is the number of foreign coaches hired at our colleges.

Bilbo
08-08-2009, 05:00 PM
I think a big problem is the ranking system of the USTA. Living in America you can buy the car and house you want, and practically the rank you want. We give points to players for being entered in an event. Today players are at K-Zoo, who ten years ago wouldn't be. Players who would be 4 on their HS team, but are home schooled, and play at every tournament possible. It favors kids who have means. So, when things are equal, the foreign players perform better. The USTA has compromised things to such a degree you can't trust a US ranking. I'm sorry, but its just the way it is.
I agree with u 100%. Im 16 and have been playing USTA sanctioned tournaments for about 2 months now. I consider myself a pretty solid player, and will be playing #1 on my high school team next year.

Whenever i play tournis i like to check my opponents ranking on tennisrecruiting.net. After playing two damn good opponents who beat me 6-0, 6-0; i decided to check them out on tennis recruiting.net. They were both 1 star players. -__-. One guy had a record of 21-6 against other 1 starrers, and the other had a record of 16-3 against 1 star players. With records like these, tell me how the system has looked past them and their tier. Both boys should easily be 2 star players. To show their prowess, 1 guy has a 2-2 record against 2 star players, while the other has a 3-4 record against 2 star players.

This is sad and dissapointing. Now, let's compare their record to the record of a resident 2 star player i kno: this player's overall record is 6-17, and he has a 1-4 record against 1 star players... yet he's a 2 star. This is stupid, and must be fixed (if, in fact, colleges use these rankings for recruiting).

ClarkC
08-08-2009, 05:26 PM
I agree with u 100%. Im 16 and have been playing USTA sanctioned tournaments for about 2 months now. I consider myself a pretty solid player, and will be playing #1 on my high school team next year.

Whenever i play tournis i like to check my opponents ranking on tennisrecruiting.net. After playing two damn good opponents who beat me 6-0, 6-0; i decided to check them out on tennis recruiting.net. They were both 1 star players. -__-. One guy had a record of 21-6 against other 1 starrers, and the other had a record of 16-3 against 1 star players. With records like these, tell me how the system has looked past them and their tier. Both boys should easily be 2 star players. To show their prowess, 1 guy has a 2-2 record against 2 star players, while the other has a 3-4 record against 2 star players.

This is sad and dissapointing. Now, let's compare their record to the record of a resident 2 star player i kno: this player's overall record is 6-17, and he has a 1-4 record against 1 star players... yet he's a 2 star. This is stupid, and must be fixed (if, in fact, colleges use these rankings for recruiting).

The star ratings are only updated once a year. What are the numerical national rankings of the players you mentioned above?

This subject has been discussed ad nauseam, and the same questions and answers come up every time. Try reading the tennisrecruiting.net threads in which Dallas Oliver of tennisrecruiting.net has answered many questions such as yours.

Also, the player you were quoting was talking about USTA rankings, which are different.

Bilbo
08-08-2009, 05:42 PM
The star ratings are only updated once a year. What are the numerical national rankings of the players you mentioned above?

This subject has been discussed ad nauseam, and the same questions and answers come up every time. Try reading the tennisrecruiting.net threads in which Dallas Oliver of tennisrecruiting.net has answered many questions such as yours.

Also, the player you were quoting was talking about USTA rankings, which are different.

cool, thx for the info, ill be sure to check those forums out. The rankings of these 3 players doesnt really matter... because they're in different age groups.

ClarkC
08-08-2009, 06:35 PM
cool, thx for the info, ill be sure to check those forums out. The rankings of these 3 players doesnt really matter... because they're in different age groups.

Here's why I asked about numerical rankings on tennisrecruiting.net. Because the star ratings are updated once a year, and the numerical rankings every week, the numerical ranking is a more current indicator.

In my younger son's age group in our state, the #7 player in the state is a 1-star and the #12 player is a 3-star! But, on October 1 when the star ratings get set for the year, the 1-star will become a 3-star and the 3-star will become a 2-star (if their numerical rankings stay about where they are). I can assure you that the #7 player is better than the #12 player, and their numerical rankings reflect that. The 1-star is now 140 spots above the 3-star in the national numerical rankings, because he has done so much better since last October 1.

So, don't get fixated on the star ratings, especially when it is late in the October 1 to September 30 (approximately) year.

IL_10is
08-13-2009, 10:00 AM
I agree that you cannot solely base USTA ranking and another ranking database when deciding a player, domestic or foreign. You do have to look at head-to-head and what tournaments a player is in. But here is the reason why some coaches go for foreign players. Most foreign players have had adequate training in tennis. They are taught footwork, technical tennis, and have a strong mental game. A drill I do with my players is called the "Spanish drill". The consists of 5 to 6 balls and the player is always moving. Not feed the ball, player hits, player comes back to the middle and then feed the next ball. In this drill I feed and then I hit another ball. I am teaching my players to recover quickly and move to the next ball. American players that want to play college tennis need to be aware of what tournaments they can need to participate in and focus on how to become a better player.

2ndServe
08-17-2009, 12:05 PM
some of the foreign players are older too. Do you take a 17-18 yo or a 20 yo with international experience. Easy choice if you want to win. Some of the NAIA schools are taking guys who are older than college seniors. A couple of years difference is huge at this stage in development.

But it is true it's a shame. Unis here get all sorts of funding from the taxpayer and way overcharge regular students.

T10s747
08-18-2009, 06:39 AM
The system is based on $$$! If you don't have some, forget about ITF, Nationals, etc. Yes, you can buy your ranking if you are a decent player. Yes, you can secure a good ranking by being a total pusher. Some of the highest ranked juniors (yes, even the USTA boys) and excellent defensive players who grind out matches with very few outright winners. That is why most of the most accomplished juniors cannot succeed as a pro. A perfect example is Donald Young, one of the greatest juniors ever but is not making it as a pro. Young has a pusher grinding game. He hits loopy with topspin that rarely misses in juniors and has the speed to defensive grind everyone off the court. He was the best junior in the world at a young age. Now he has no weapons to speak of to compete in the pro. He use to beat Sam Querrey in juniors but now Querrey is a top 50 pro but Young is nowhere. The formula to be a great junior is easy: retrieve, grind with topspin, spend money to play everything- make your opponent hit yet another ball.

tennismom42
08-18-2009, 12:12 PM
The system is based on $$$! If you don't have some, forget about ITF, Nationals, etc. Yes, you can buy your ranking if you are a decent player. Yes, you can secure a good ranking by being a total pusher. Some of the highest ranked juniors (yes, even the USTA boys) and excellent defensive players who grind out matches with very few outright winners. That is why most of the most accomplished juniors cannot succeed as a pro. A perfect example is Donald Young, one of the greatest juniors ever but is not making it as a pro. Young has a pusher grinding game. He hits loopy with topspin that rarely misses in juniors and has the speed to defensive grind everyone off the court. He was the best junior in the world at a young age. Now he has no weapons to speak of to compete in the pro. He use to beat Sam Querrey in juniors but now Querrey is a top 50 pro but Young is nowhere. The formula to be a great junior is easy: retrieve, grind with topspin, spend money to play everything- make your opponent hit yet another ball.

... and play doubles so you can earn singles rankings points

papatenis
08-18-2009, 02:14 PM
The system is based on $$$! If you don't have some, forget about ITF, Nationals, etc. Yes, you can buy your ranking if you are a decent player. Yes, you can secure a good ranking by being a total pusher. Some of the highest ranked juniors (yes, even the USTA boys) and excellent defensive players who grind out matches with very few outright winners. That is why most of the most accomplished juniors cannot succeed as a pro. A perfect example is Donald Young, one of the greatest juniors ever but is not making it as a pro. Young has a pusher grinding game. He hits loopy with topspin that rarely misses in juniors and has the speed to defensive grind everyone off the court. He was the best junior in the world at a young age. Now he has no weapons to speak of to compete in the pro. He use to beat Sam Querrey in juniors but now Querrey is a top 50 pro but Young is nowhere. The formula to be a great junior is easy: retrieve, grind with topspin, spend money to play everything- make your opponent hit yet another ball.

man, your right on! how old are you? if your young, then you should try to become a tennis coach. you have the understanding of someone who has been in junior tennis for a long time.

gameboy
08-18-2009, 04:17 PM
Hmmm... Donald Young's game pretty much sounds like Michael Chang's game. And Chang did pretty okay...

T10s747
08-19-2009, 05:57 AM
Hmmm... Donald Young's game pretty much sounds like Michael Chang's game. And Chang did pretty okay...

Haha, Chang was like 10 times better than Young. He was a fierce competitor who rose to #2 in the world despite his small size. His backhand was money and he could pass the big servers as they approached the net. Take a look at how he played all court tennis closing in on net, hitting Edberg's 1st and 2nd serves on the rise stepping into the baseline to win the French at 17. Young has no fight because he hasn't earn all the wild cards he has been given. He's done as a pro, only a footnote in the annals of prominent juniors who never made it.

gameboy
08-19-2009, 12:51 PM
I didn't say Young was better than Chang. All I am saying is that it is your contention that USTA is producing "excellent defensive players who grind out matches with very few outright winners." and that that is bad.

All I am saying is you can do just fine with the defensive style of play as long as you have people who are talented enough. If USTA is indeed promoting that type of style, I have nothing against it.

SoCal10s
08-19-2009, 01:20 PM
ok ,but what does all this have to do with American colleges giving a free-ride to foreigners so they can play and win more college tennis titles ,rather than supporting an American kid who may not hit the tennis ball quite as well as the foreign kid..>?? NCAA should maybe set a limit on how many foreign student players a team can have so there are more spots opened for US home growns ..

gameboy
08-19-2009, 01:45 PM
Why? If the foreign kids are more talented, why shouldn't they get the spot?

If you aim is to improve US tennis, starting at the college level is a bit late. I think you need to concentrate your effort much earlier so the US juniors can compete with foreign players for those precious spots.

SoCal10s
08-19-2009, 02:43 PM
Why? If the foreign kids are more talented, why shouldn't they get the spot?

If you aim is to improve US tennis, starting at the college level is a bit late. I think you need to concentrate your effort much earlier so the US juniors can compete with foreign players for those precious spots.

college is not about tennis is about an education and going to a college these days is not cheap,so why give away freebies to foreigners ? US schools are products of USA dollars support so it would be nice to support one of our own instead of a foreigner who's mom and dad never paid any taxes into our system.. kids who play college tennis are almost at 0% to make pros so were not talking about a profession here.

gameboy
08-19-2009, 02:54 PM
First, only schools that get public dollars are public universities (like UCLA). And even in those schools, athletic scholarship dollars come from donations and other athletic programs (if they are successful). Your tax dollars have nothing to do with them.

Second, US colleges are some of the best in the world. And as such, they attract scholars from all over the world. Which is a GOOD THING, because it increases the diversity on the campus, and attract the brightest and most able to this country which many of them end up staying and become citizens.

I don't see why tennis scholarships should be any different than the rest of the student body.

MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER
08-19-2009, 03:43 PM
The issue of "foreign players" has been hashed over in a hundred other threads.

You want the real bottom line?
Tennis coaches like to eat, and even have a roof over their heads- They won't have that for long playing some straight American teams. Period.

So continue your grousing and your struggles (you below #100) for that 1/4 scholarship to North campus- South Dakota State.

Just remember to keep up on your foreign languages so you can maybe say a few words to your team mates as you slave for that school 20 hours a week.

And it would be good to remember that if the numbers don't add up just right for the Althetic Department your Men's tennis team will be out on the curb in a heartbeat for a women's water rugby team- And scholarships are annual, not 4 yaer.

papatenis
08-20-2009, 10:56 AM
anybody ever thought that some college coaches are to lazy to recruit at national tournaments? example, the girl's 18 nat'l championships was held at Berkeley, California. there is a school called University of Pacific, a div. 1 school. the women's team is made up of all foreign players. UOP is maybe less than a hours drive to Berkeley, but the coach was not there, or not at any other nat'l tourn. held in California.

boris becker 1
08-20-2009, 06:34 PM
if you good enough your good enough.

lets see more lazy american go try to play in bundesliga club teams or play satelites on the clay rather than the usta giving them wildcards

ClarkC
08-20-2009, 07:28 PM
Would you care to share which colleges would like Americans to apply?

I think she mentioned North Florida in Jacksonville in a previous thread.

cmb
08-22-2009, 09:22 AM
if you good enough your good enough.

lets see more lazy american go try to play in bundesliga club teams or play satelites on the clay rather than the usta giving them wildcards


so true, how many americans have gone to germany or any european country to play money tournaments or club matches? Most of the time an american player is not the best option for a college coach. In europe the tournament system at the national level is far more advanced then in the states, so this is the reason american kids at a bit behind the european players when they get to college.

Dont blame the euros, blame the USTA for having such a broken system which does not allow juniors to compete against college and pro players on a weekly basis

tennismom42
08-22-2009, 11:35 AM
I think she mentioned North Florida in Jacksonville in a previous thread.

yep & Georgia Southern