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paulfreda
08-06-2009, 03:57 AM
I saw Marion Bartoli's father on his knees with his daughter during a changeover at The Bank of West tournament at Stanford, CA. He was clearly advising his daughter about the match. I thought that this is illegal except for collegiate tennis. Did the WTA change the rules ? When ?

marpiw
08-06-2009, 07:05 AM
I think that fathers are the worst coaches players could have.They are just fathers and that doesnt enable them to coach their sons or daughters.For that purpose there is the proffessional coach who has studied and prepared himself for an effective and proffessional coaching...
Fathers and relatives of the players should be banned from coaching...they should stay outside the courts and just watch...I saw Marion Bartoli's father on his knees with his daughter during a changeover at The Bank of West tournament at Stanford, CA. He was clearly advising his daughter about the match. I thought that this is illegal except for collegiate tennis. Did the WTA change the rules ? When ?

rosenstar
08-06-2009, 07:08 AM
I saw Marion Bartoli's father on his knees with his daughter during a changeover at The Bank of West tournament at Stanford, CA. He was clearly advising his daughter about the match. I thought that this is illegal except for collegiate tennis. Did the WTA change the rules ? When ?

I don't follow wta, but I believe that wta allows on court coaching in all matches except grand slam matches. I think they changed the rule over a year or two ago. I feel like they changed it right after justine Henin retired, not sure though.


And I definitely agree that family members should not coach players past the age of 12

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-06-2009, 07:11 AM
I saw Marion Bartoli's father on his knees with his daughter during a changeover at The Bank of West tournament at Stanford, CA. He was clearly advising his daughter about the match. I thought that this is illegal except for collegiate tennis. Did the WTA change the rules ? When ?
They are trying it out since last year i think, funny story, Caroline Wozniacki played in Bastad,Sweden this year and her father Piotr coached her on court, in the semifinal when he coached her ,everytime he stepped on court she lost 2 games in a row, she was up 2-1, he came in,then 2-3...4-5 times during that match, it was laughable:) Even the commentators were joking about that she should fire his butt

marpiw
08-06-2009, 07:16 AM
The disasters of family coaching...why dont they step aside and call for a pro...They are trying it out since last year i think, funny story, Caroline Wozniacki played in Bastad,Sweden this year and her father Piotr coached her on court, in the semifinal when he coached her ,everytime he stepped on court she lost 2 games in a row, she was up 2-1, he came in,then 2-3...4-5 times during that match, it was laughable:) Even the commentators were joking about that she should fire his butt

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-06-2009, 07:21 AM
The disasters of family coaching...why dont they step aside and call for a pro...
Yeah i agree, what really buggs me is when a father takes all the credit for her daughter became a star when he knows NOTHING about tennis.

marpiw
08-06-2009, 07:37 AM
Not only he knows nothing about tennis but whats more important he knows nothing about coaching...Being a father does not mean you will have personal qualities to coach your sons...Pro's are the only ones prepared to do it...Yeah i agree, what really buggs me is when a father takes all the credit for her daughter became a star when he knows NOTHING about tennis.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-06-2009, 07:39 AM
Not only he knows nothing about tennis but whats more important he knows nothing about coaching...Being a father does not mean you will have personal qualities to coach your sons...Pro's are the only ones prepared to do it...
Totally agree with that, i would imagine there are lot of great coaches sitting watching the fathers storming into the courts coaching their bill-payers and just shaking their heads, because they usually wires it to the audience which is pretty cool:)

Wizard of id
08-06-2009, 07:59 AM
Totally agree with that, i would imagine there are lot of great coaches sitting watching the fathers storming into the courts coaching their bill-payers and just shaking their heads, because they usually wires it to the audience which is pretty cool:)

IIRC, at one of the wimbledon semis (Andy and Andy, I think), one of the (female) commentators remarked on how well coached the ATP players are vs the women's tour, since the men use professional coaches and the women (Safina was mentioned) all have family members/friends/random people coaching them.

Wired to the audience? You mean the audience in the stands can hear them? So the other player's coaches can too?

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-06-2009, 08:08 AM
IIRC, at one of the wimbledon semis (Andy and Andy, I think), one of the (female) commentators remarked on how well coached the ATP players are vs the women's tour, since the men use professional coaches and the women (Safina was mentioned) all have family members/friends/random people coaching them.

Wired to the audience? You mean the audience in the stands can hear them? So the other player's coaches can too?
Oh no sorry, i meant wired to the tv-wievers, not to the audience at the site of course, maybe just the ones sitting behind the referee ?

woodrow1029
08-06-2009, 08:15 AM
Coaching in WTA events is no longer on a trial basis. It is actually part of the WTA rule book now and in effect at all Sony Ericsson WTA Tour events.

Players may request their coach on one changeover per set OR at the set break following that set. Additionally, when one player takes a medical timeout or a toilet/change of attire break, the opponent may request their coach to come on court. A player may designate anybody as their coach including another player if they choose. The player and their coach must sign in prior to the match with the Tour Supervisor. If the match is televised, the coach must wear a microphone so that the TV viewers can hear what is going on. All coaching shown to the viewers will be tape delayed (A) to make sure that there are no obscenities (B) to cut out any casual or personal conversation not related to coaching or the match (C) to allow time for translation if it is not in English.

フェデラー
08-06-2009, 08:16 AM
This was put in place like two years ago lol.

Serendipitous
08-06-2009, 08:17 AM
Coaching in WTA events is no longer on a trial basis. It is actually part of the WTA rule book now and in effect at all Sony Ericsson WTA Tour events.

Players may request their coach on one changeover per set OR at the set break following that set. Additionally, when one player takes a medical timeout or a toilet/change of attire break, the opponent may request their coach to come on court. A player may designate anybody as their coach including another player if they choose. The player and their coach must sign in prior to the match with the Tour Supervisor.


Wow....what a joke....another reason why the WTA is.......yeah......:)

OroDeSantoro
08-06-2009, 08:22 AM
Yeah i agree, what really buggs me is when a father takes all the credit for her daughter became a star when he knows NOTHING about tennis.

What is... Richard Williams?

They probably don't have Jeopardy in Sweden so you might not get that...

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-06-2009, 08:26 AM
What is... Richard Williams?

They probably don't have Jeopardy in Sweden so you might not get that...
Yes,among others. We do, and have done for the past 20 years...What do u think of Sweden??

OroDeSantoro
08-06-2009, 08:36 AM
Yes,among others. We do, and have done for the past 20 years...What do u think of Sweden??

I know very little about it... I didn't mean that as "pssh, a country like sweden wouldn't be graced with an awesome american program like Jeopardy...",
I said it to make sure you didn't think "what the hell is this guy talking about??"
I do drive a volvo though :mrgreen:

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-06-2009, 08:48 AM
I know very little about it... I didn't mean that as "pssh, a country like sweden wouldn't be graced with an awesome american program like Jeopardy...",
I said it to make sure you didn't think "what the hell is this guy talking about??"
I do drive a volvo though :mrgreen:
Oh no i didnt take it as an ofense, why should i?
Lol, I understood what u meant, its all good:)
Yeah, they are extremely reliable and never lets you down, what nationality are you?

OroDeSantoro
08-06-2009, 08:53 AM
Oh no i didnt take it as an ofense, why should i?
Lol, I understood what u meant, its all good:)
Yeah, they are extremely reliable and never lets you down, what nationality are you?

Hell yeah they're reliable, I flog that thing for all it's worth and it just asks for more.
I'm American, the good kind though (not the war-mongering, ameri-centrist, ignorant kind :twisted:)

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-06-2009, 09:00 AM
Hell yeah they're reliable, I flog that thing for all it's worth and it just asks for more.
I'm American, the good kind though (not the war-mongering, ameri-centrist, ignorant kind :twisted:)
Thats great! They do:) Ive got the 2008 version,great thing!
I like Americans and i love USA, been there 3 times and always wished i could have stayed longer!

woodrow1029
08-06-2009, 09:02 AM
In addition to what I wrote earlier, coaching is ONLY in effect at WTA Tour events. There is still no coaching at ITF Circuit Events and at Grand Slams.

OroDeSantoro
08-06-2009, 09:08 AM
Thats great! They do:) Ive got the 2008 version,great thing!
I like Americans and i love USA, been there 3 times and always wished i could have stayed longer!

That's good to hear, Americans are often characterized unfairly.

A 2008, very nice. I'll be in the market for an '07 s60R in the next year or two, the T5 isn't quite doing it for me anymore :evil:

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-06-2009, 09:12 AM
That's good to hear, Americans are often characterized unfairly.

A 2008, very nice. I'll be in the market for an '07 s60R in the next year or two, the T5 isn't quite doing it for me anymore :evil:
Yes i know, but not by Swedes i dont think, in Sweden ppl got a very fair look of Americans i think, lots of Swedes travel to USA all the time (Minnesota is very Swedish).
Thats nice! I would imagine them to be a little bit more cheaper in USA would u agree? I paid ...lets see in USD...43,000 USD

OroDeSantoro
08-06-2009, 09:20 AM
Yes i know, but not by Swedes i dont think, in Sweden ppl got a very fair look of Americans i think, lots of Swedes travel to USA all the time (Minnesota is very Swedish).
Thats nice! I would imagine them to be a little bit more cheaper in USA would u agree? I paid ...lets see in USD...43,000 USD

A lot cheaper... I'm looking for a used one with 20-40 thousand miles and they're usually between $20-$25 thousand.
Also, since the car industry is doing so badly here right now Volvo is offering discounts on new S60s. You can get a $33k S60 for $25k

drwood
08-06-2009, 09:25 AM
Not only he knows nothing about tennis but whats more important he knows nothing about coaching...Being a father does not mean you will have personal qualities to coach your sons...Pro's are the only ones prepared to do it...

I disagree. The right parent can do it -- being a tennis star is more than just being a player -- a person has to be prepared for the demands of being in the public eye and be able to withstand that on a personal level (i.e. interacting with other people). The average parent has greater insight into that aspect than the average coach -- and is far less expensive.

Obviously formal coaching is important to some degree in order to provide a basic framework, but lets not kid ourselves -- many coaches are out for themselves and will use their students to make money regardless of the emotional toll it places on the student. Now some parents are just as ruthless, but on the whole, I'd trust a parent to care for their child's entire well-being much more than a coach.

OroDeSantoro
08-06-2009, 09:29 AM
I disagree. The right parent can do it -- being a tennis star is more than just being a player -- a person has to be prepared for the demands of being in the public eye and be able to withstand that on a personal level (i.e. interacting with other people). The average parent has greater insight into that aspect than the average coach -- and is far less expensive.

Obviously formal coaching is important to some degree in order to provide a basic framework, but lets not kid ourselves -- many coaches are out for themselves and will use their students to make money regardless of the emotional toll it places on the student. Now some parents are just as ruthless, but on the whole, I'd trust a parent to care for their child's entire well-being much more than a coach.

Very true, a good coach must also be a good mentor, which often isn't the case.

marpiw
08-07-2009, 05:11 AM
Recently I made a mini-course of coaching and I can tell you that there are many techiques involved in coaching that the relatives of the players do not know because they are not proffessionals...they just are goodwilled relatives who love their sons...but thats not enough to coach them...
It is the same as a medical diagnosis...the doctor can be a good one or a bad one...but he is a doctor who studied in the University and that fact you cant take from him...All of this is just to find the right professional for you...and relatives are just that they are relatives and nothing else...they do not know how to coach...they havent studied for it...so they can render no service to their beloved ones...they could head for disaster...
What you expound here is the essence of coaching...and only pro's can render all these services to the players...
Coaches are not monsters...they are human beings doing a really hard work...because its all involved in coaching...the mental and the physical welfare of their ''patients''...so I dont think they will harm anyone...on the contrary...I disagree. The right parent can do it -- being a tennis star is more than just being a player -- a person has to be prepared for the demands of being in the public eye and be able to withstand that on a personal level (i.e. interacting with other people). The average parent has greater insight into that aspect than the average coach -- and is far less expensive.

Obviously formal coaching is important to some degree in order to provide a basic framework, but lets not kid ourselves -- many coaches are out for themselves and will use their students to make money regardless of the emotional toll it places on the student. Now some parents are just as ruthless, but on the whole, I'd trust a parent to care for their child's entire well-being much more than a coach.