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View Full Version : Nadal says " I am 100%, No"


OddJack
08-09-2009, 05:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0qsmnvlaP8

veritech
08-09-2009, 05:17 PM
this is the 100th thread on nadal not being 100% for montreal. and i'm not exaggerating.

OddJack
08-09-2009, 05:19 PM
this is the 100th thread on nadal not being 100% for montreal. and i'm not exaggerating.

keep counting... did you respond to all other 99 too?

SourStraws
08-09-2009, 06:05 PM
Thanks for the vid, Jck

S.S.

drakulie
08-09-2009, 06:47 PM
Nadal hasn't been 100% in over 4 years. Time for him to find another excuse.

JeMar
08-09-2009, 06:50 PM
Nadal is the Lance Armstrong of tennis.

He managed to get 6 majors and reach the number one position with half a knee.

Serendipitous
08-09-2009, 06:50 PM
Nadal is the Lance Armstrong of tennis.

He managed to get 6 majors and reach the number one position with half a knee.

Are you making fun of him? :(

The-Champ
08-09-2009, 06:57 PM
Nadal is the Lance Armstrong of tennis.

He managed to get 6 majors and reach the number one position with half a knee.



That's what makes him a possible all time great! :)

Lifted
08-09-2009, 08:04 PM
In the video, Nadal said he is not 100%. He said, "but sure 100% not." This also makes more sense, because it is followed by him talking about practicing and seeing where he is.

jamesblakefan#1
08-09-2009, 10:27 PM
These accounts don't sound too promising:

After watching Nadal practice for nearly two hours yesterday one thing’s for sure: the Rafa fans will see this week could be a shadow of the Rafa they’re used to.

Hopefully a lot of it was jet lag, general stiffness after a long flight from his hometown of Manacor, Mallorca. He didn’t look very good – and he wasn’t pushing it.

For the first hour and half, it was mostly forehands, a few backhands. Even after an hour, Nadal was still spraying the ball all over the place. If he asked Roig (left) once, he asked him a hundred times: “Was it out?” Most often, it was. Or it was in the net. He was getting pretty aggravated about it, too, although there no racquets were tossed in anger.

Nadal did not test his battered knees yesterday, which were not taped. He moved more than two steps to hit a ball maybe two dozen times in all. When he did, he looked awkward – particularly when he was practicing returning serves on the deuce side of the court, moving towards his right to hit a backhand. A couple of times, he grabbed those sore knees.

He also said that for nearly two months, he had been undergoing five hours of treatment – every day. After about an hour and 45 minutes, Rafa called 'No Mas.' He headed back to his chair, tossed the racquet onto the bag, and that was pretty much it.

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/opencourt/archive/2009/08/07/rafa-hits-the-practice-courts.aspx

Rafa Nadal looked a little better on the practice court Saturday, as he went through his paces with Rainer Schuettler. But he still made an awful lot of mistakes. And he still was in a pretty cranky mood - almost resigned, more than anything.

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/opencourt/archive/2009/08/08/rafa-still-scuffling.aspx

If the knee injury ends his career, it will be a sad day for tennis.

wyutani
08-09-2009, 10:30 PM
when nadal is playing.hes always above 113%

BELIEVE IT!

veritech
08-09-2009, 10:35 PM
These accounts don't sound too promising:

After watching Nadal practice for nearly two hours yesterday one thing’s for sure: the Rafa fans will see this week could be a shadow of the Rafa they’re used to.

Hopefully a lot of it was jet lag, general stiffness after a long flight from his hometown of Manacor, Mallorca. He didn’t look very good – and he wasn’t pushing it.

For the first hour and half, it was mostly forehands, a few backhands. Even after an hour, Nadal was still spraying the ball all over the place. If he asked Roig (left) once, he asked him a hundred times: “Was it out?” Most often, it was. Or it was in the net. He was getting pretty aggravated about it, too, although there no racquets were tossed in anger.

Nadal did not test his battered knees yesterday, which were not taped. He moved more than two steps to hit a ball maybe two dozen times in all. When he did, he looked awkward – particularly when he was practicing returning serves on the deuce side of the court, moving towards his right to hit a backhand. A couple of times, he grabbed those sore knees.

He also said that for nearly two months, he had been undergoing five hours of treatment – every day. After about an hour and 45 minutes, Rafa called 'No Mas.' He headed back to his chair, tossed the racquet onto the bag, and that was pretty much it.

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/opencourt/archive/2009/08/07/rafa-hits-the-practice-courts.aspx

Rafa Nadal looked a little better on the practice court Saturday, as he went through his paces with Rainer Schuettler. But he still made an awful lot of mistakes. And he still was in a pretty cranky mood - almost resigned, more than anything.

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/opencourt/archive/2009/08/08/rafa-still-scuffling.aspx

If the knee injury ends his career, it will be a sad day for tennis.

that sounds devastating. hope he gets better, not for the sake of tennis but for his own sake.

veritech
08-09-2009, 10:37 PM
These accounts don't sound too promising:

After watching Nadal practice for nearly two hours yesterday one thing’s for sure: the Rafa fans will see this week could be a shadow of the Rafa they’re used to.

Hopefully a lot of it was jet lag, general stiffness after a long flight from his hometown of Manacor, Mallorca. He didn’t look very good – and he wasn’t pushing it.

For the first hour and half, it was mostly forehands, a few backhands. Even after an hour, Nadal was still spraying the ball all over the place. If he asked Roig (left) once, he asked him a hundred times: “Was it out?” Most often, it was. Or it was in the net. He was getting pretty aggravated about it, too, although there no racquets were tossed in anger.

Nadal did not test his battered knees yesterday, which were not taped. He moved more than two steps to hit a ball maybe two dozen times in all. When he did, he looked awkward – particularly when he was practicing returning serves on the deuce side of the court, moving towards his right to hit a backhand. A couple of times, he grabbed those sore knees.

He also said that for nearly two months, he had been undergoing five hours of treatment – every day. After about an hour and 45 minutes, Rafa called 'No Mas.' He headed back to his chair, tossed the racquet onto the bag, and that was pretty much it.

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/opencourt/archive/2009/08/07/rafa-hits-the-practice-courts.aspx

Rafa Nadal looked a little better on the practice court Saturday, as he went through his paces with Rainer Schuettler. But he still made an awful lot of mistakes. And he still was in a pretty cranky mood - almost resigned, more than anything.

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/opencourt/archive/2009/08/08/rafa-still-scuffling.aspx

If the knee injury ends his career, it will be a sad day for tennis.

that sounds devastating. hope he gets better, not for the sake of tennis but for his own sake. i recall one of the commentators on ESPN talking how in his tennis years he suffered from tendinitis, and the stories he told weren't very pleasant.

rafan
08-09-2009, 10:55 PM
Come on Rafa. Get that head band on, those zany clothes and GO for it - like you used to. None of this "I am not sure" . I just can't imagine Rafa wanting to lose anything. I only half believe what I saw in that interview!

settolove
08-09-2009, 11:12 PM
that sounds devastating. hope he gets better, not for the sake of tennis but for his own sake. i recall one of the commentators on ESPN talking how in his tennis years he suffered from tendinitis, and the stories he told weren't very pleasant.

Daren Cahill, there's a rough transcript here
http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/06/22/darren-cahill-feels-rafael-nadals-knee-pain/

feetofclay
08-10-2009, 12:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0qsmnvlaP8

Thanks for the video. I think he actually says " I am 100% not" anyway it's good to see him back.

Gorecki
08-10-2009, 12:49 AM
when nadal is playing.hes always above 113%

BELIEVE IT!

actually he is 115,75 % with a majoration of 3,5% in case it's a clay event!

mandy01
08-10-2009, 12:52 AM
actually he is 115,75 % with a majoration of 3,5% in case it's a clay event!
ROFL :lol:

The-Champ
08-10-2009, 02:55 AM
Daren Cahill, there's a rough transcript here
http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/06/22/darren-cahill-feels-rafael-nadals-knee-pain/

thanks for that article

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-10-2009, 03:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0qsmnvlaP8
I dont see anything wrong with this thread, its an update on how Nadal is doing, the OP doesnt deserve to get critisized for updating you. Good thread

Gorecki
08-10-2009, 05:09 AM
^^
well.. this one special thread makes the fangirl flame war threads look like the louvre at night!

Klatu Verata Necktie
08-10-2009, 05:22 AM
Is Nadal aware of the hatred he sews when he hurts his knee?

Speranza
08-10-2009, 06:12 AM
Is Nadal aware of the hatred he sews when he hurts his knee?

What? Nadal hurt his knee(s)?

When?

diredesire
08-10-2009, 07:16 AM
sorry for the delayed clean up. If you guys really are using the reported post button, i'm not getting a lot of the mails...

JD

Serendipitous
08-10-2009, 07:21 AM
sorry for the delayed clean up. If you guys really are using the reported post button, i'm not getting a lot of the mails...

JD


Which ones do you want us to report, sir? :)

diredesire
08-10-2009, 07:36 AM
Which ones do you want us to report, sir? :)

Anything against the rules is fine with me, the insults, etc are (especially) getting on my nerves ;)


Unfortunately, I can't read most of the threads in full, so I need your guys' help ;)

cknobman
08-10-2009, 07:53 AM
Holy crap I really dont feel good about some of the quotes in this thread.

I hope its all hype and not real because it would SUCK hard for Rafa and tennis as a whole if he is really in the shape these quotes would leave you to believe.

T. H. Park
08-10-2009, 08:04 AM
Nadal hasn't been 100% in over 4 years. Time for him to find another excuse.

He just cannot find it in himself to say - the RG 09 loss was terrible and took a toll on me mentally. He knows it (I hope). Experts have commented on this. He needs to face reality. If he does not, I do not think he will fully "recover."

In a way, Fed probably faced reality at the AO 09 when he started to cry ... it probably hit him that he just lost it mentally in that match and Nadal has overtaken him.

Terr
08-10-2009, 08:11 AM
I can only pray that one day Nadal's English will be up to the same standards as his tennis/attempted flights on court.

Then I'd bother watching his interviews.

Terr
08-10-2009, 08:13 AM
He just cannot find it in himself to say - the RG 09 loss was terrible and took a toll on me mentally. He knows it (I hope). Experts have commented on this. He needs to face reality. If he does not, I do not think he will fully "recover."

In a way, Fed probably faced reality at the AO 09 when he started to cry ... it probably hit him that he just lost it mentally in that match and Nadal has overtaken him.

I think at that point Nadal had realised his body was letting him down and Fed knew his mind was crumbling...

But now Fed's back on top. Feeling more confident, his wife isn't pregnant and hormonal anymore and Nadal's still injured.

I think that's enough to fuel him for another season.

namelessone
08-10-2009, 09:00 AM
He just cannot find it in himself to say - the RG 09 loss was terrible and took a toll on me mentally. He knows it (I hope). Experts have commented on this. He needs to face reality. If he does not, I do not think he will fully "recover."

In a way, Fed probably faced reality at the AO 09 when he started to cry ... it probably hit him that he just lost it mentally in that match and Nadal has overtaken him.

Actually I think Nadal faced reality when he pulled out of Wimbledon.Everybody knows it's Nadal favourite tournament and he was defending champion.That must have been VERY hard to do.He has commented on the RG 09' loss.He said it hurt and that he had time to let it sink in while he was resting at home for 2 months.His problem is trying to strike a balance between nursing the injury and playing to get the rhythm and confidence.

Fed's situation was different than Nadal's.Fed was on the brink on the 14 and had been handed defeats in the last 3 GS finals by Nadal and the pressure build and build on him until he couldn't take it anymore.The only major dissapointments in Roger's carrer have been handed by Rafa and a lot of people were saying that Fed would never win a GS again after seeing him break down like that.And the anger kept on going as Federer kept losing and even broke a racket in miami.What calmed Fed was the RG win facilitated by soderling's win over Nadal.

Nadal,on the other hand,has had a lot of disappointments in USOpen and AO year after year,he lost 2 Wimbledon finals so it's not like it's been all happy fun.Nadal's problems this year have been with his schedule.He added a whole un-necessary month of tennis which did him in,with a little help from soderling(but it didn't matter cause davydenko would have beaten him too in that sorry state).His knees aren't getting any younger so he cannot recuperate as before,he has too cut down the schedule or else.Rafa's doctor said he should be ok in 3-4 weeks.It's been 2 months and he says he still feels some pain but feels good enough to give it a go.

Sure,the RG defeat jurt because he was never defeated there but Nadal's problem is much bigger than that.He,for the first time in his career,realised he cannot push himself this hard again,he needs some breaks from time to time.He has found out his limitations and that's pretty hard for someone as young and as exuberant on court as Nadal.Sure,he had injuries before but they came late in the season.This is the first time he has had big problems this early,since Monte Carlo.In this spring season he learned a very important lesson,at least I hope he did.If Nadal pushes this hard again,he won't make it another 2 years,mark my words.

Rafa has also stated that he has recovered from the losses mentally but his knees can't be doing too much good for his confidence.Unless he plays again he cannot win.And if he cannot win he cannot gain his confidence back,not to mention getting the game back on track.But if he plays too soon or too much again the whole knee issues start agains and he will be sidelined again.

His knee situation is the one that is truly giving him headaches right now,not the RG defeat.

SystemeD
08-10-2009, 09:09 AM
I watched himn practice for 2 hours against Verdasco and I could not tell he was a guy coming back from injury....hitting really hard, running after balls.
My pics here from the training here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/32794929@N05/page3/

bolo
08-10-2009, 10:33 AM
He just cannot find it in himself to say - the RG 09 loss was terrible and took a toll on me mentally. He knows it (I hope). Experts have commented on this. He needs to face reality. If he does not, I do not think he will fully "recover."

In a way, Fed probably faced reality at the AO 09 when he started to cry ... it probably hit him that he just lost it mentally in that match and Nadal has overtaken him.

Which epxerts said the loss took a toll on nadal mentally? bleacher report commentators perhaps?

jamesblakefan#1
08-10-2009, 10:43 AM
Which epxerts said the loss took a toll on nadal mentally? bleacher report commentators perhaps?

Darren Cahill. John McEnroe. Brad Gilbert.

Serendipitous
08-10-2009, 10:44 AM
jamesblakefan#1

bolo
08-10-2009, 10:44 AM
Darren Cahill. John McEnroe. Brad Gilbert.

Cahill talked about the withdrawal from wimbledon being related to tendonitis and it was his opinion that it was mostly psychological. When did he say it was related to the RG loss?

drakulie
08-10-2009, 10:45 AM
Darren Cahill. John McEnroe. Brad Gilbert.

and don't forget, Bolo, zoso, blindism

bolo
08-10-2009, 10:46 AM
and don't forget, Bolo, zoso, blindism

has it broken yet? you were so close all on your own, I figured a real newspaper person would have broken it by now. lol. :)

Cyan
08-10-2009, 10:49 AM
Nalbandian has been saying that Rafa's issues are more mental than physical. He must know something since they have the same doctor..... Cotorro.

bolo
08-10-2009, 10:50 AM
Nalbandian has been saying that Rafa's issues are more mental than physical. He must know something since they have the same doctor..... Cotorro.

Do you have a source for that?

Cyan
08-10-2009, 10:51 AM
Do you have a source for that?

VamosBrigade forum.

drakulie
08-10-2009, 10:53 AM
Nalbandian has been saying that Rafa's issues are more mental than physical. He must know something since they have the same doctor..... Cotorro.

yes, do you have a signed affidavit from Nalbandian?? Also, haveyou sent the signature on the affidavit to the FBI's forensic lab for testing, to make sure it is Nalbandian's signature??

bolo
08-10-2009, 10:56 AM
yes, do you have a signed affidavit from Nalbandian?? Also, haveyou sent the signature on the affidavit to the FBI's forensic lab for testing, to make sure it is Nalbandian's signature??

You probably really thought there was a high chance of nadal not competing anytime soon. It's okay you can admit it. Lol. :)

Cyan
08-10-2009, 10:57 AM
yes, do you have a signed affidavit from Nalbandian?? Also, haveyou sent the signature on the affidavit to the FBI's forensic lab for testing, to make sure it is Nalbandian's signature??

LOL.................

drakulie
08-10-2009, 11:34 AM
You probably really thought there was a high chance of nadal not competing anytime soon. It's okay you can admit it. Lol. :)

actually, quite the opposite, Blindism.

Blinkism
08-10-2009, 11:35 AM
Poor, old, aging *******

FedFan_2009
08-10-2009, 01:58 PM
VamosBrigade forum.

Ah, the ultimate unbiased source for all things ******-related.

~ZoSo~
08-10-2009, 03:20 PM
and don't forget, Bolo, zoso, blindism

Wow some unsolicited mudslinging through the medium of sarcasm, totally unexpected from a reasonable fellow such as yourself.
This is presumably stemming from my failing to bother reading your dossier of evidence and not proceeding to try prove you wrong. Your entitled to your opinion but trolling it in many threads at earliest opportunity is questionable.
The way i look at it, if what your saying is true i.e you have posted the proof, then a proper press agency would have displayed the same journalistic flair & followed the sports scoop of the year. As thats not happening, its a case of once upon a time in draks head.^^^well, it's good to see him doing the perfect treatment for knee injuires.

>>>>>Jumping up and down repeatedly, very rapidly, on a hard court.>>>>


http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090806/capt.957494b748fe4f9d880b9a8f037a40d7.rogers_cup_n adal_tennis_gmh102.jpg

it's called sarcasm.

point being, that he has never even seen the articles, yet has 80+ posts in this thread, and he keeps the story of Nadal being suspended alive, even without me providing the articles. In other words, he/she is not very bright.

Lastly, I don't really even need the articles. nadal playing during wimbledon, while supposedly "injured" is enough factual evidence to know he is not "injured".

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 07:29 AM
Darren Cahill. John McEnroe. Brad Gilbert.

Thank you for this. I thought people actually followed and read about tennis... I guess Bolo does not.

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 07:47 AM
Agree with a lot that you point out. However, something I disagree is:

1.Wimby is not his favorite tourney. RG is.

2.I am pretty sure Nadal has not faced reality. It's the opposite. He seems to want to assure himself it's the knees. That's not his main problem at the moment. Even at RG he was winning until he met an overwhelming better player that day. At Madrid, after the finals, and just before Wimby, he said there would be no problems at RG and RG is totally different. No mention of his knees. It's just a matter of people figuring out how to beat him. Happens to everyone, including Fed. Fed almost lost, and in a way, Roddick played "better" on the baseline. 50 aces, however, seemed to be the decisive factor for Fed. Anyway, what goes up must come down. Nadal has definitely reached his prime or is on the decline.

3.Pulling out of Wimby is stupid. It was not that bad on knees - although I may be wrong. He said he does not enter a tourney when he is not 100% - at Wimby. According to him, he is not 100% now and enters Montreal. On top of that he plays doubles there. Knees? Cannot be. He MUST know he has to cut down on ALL "unnecessary" tennis - doubles and exhibitions. This is a no-brainer if knees are the source of the problem. They are seemingly not due to his actions opposed to what he (Toni?) says.

4.There is nothing disappointing about Nadal's career. And it is not over yet. He will decline faster than Fed due to his playing style. However, for people like Fed and Nadal, the mental aspects seem even more important. The only disappointment for Nadal, if there is one, is that he was unfortunate to be playing at an era where there's a person called Federer. Without him, Nadal would've been no.1 for quite a few years - which would probably have won him a few more slams inculding the AO and USO. This I say, is due to the confidence of being no.1. and being Nadal. Having said that, it is unforunate for everyone else that there is person named Federer - and for Federer he is unlucky to have a person like Nadal in his era.

Actually I think Nadal faced reality when he pulled out of Wimbledon.Everybody knows it's Nadal favourite tournament and he was defending champion.That must have been VERY hard to do.He has commented on the RG 09' loss.He said it hurt and that he had time to let it sink in while he was resting at home for 2 months.His problem is trying to strike a balance between nursing the injury and playing to get the rhythm and confidence.

Fed's situation was different than Nadal's.Fed was on the brink on the 14 and had been handed defeats in the last 3 GS finals by Nadal and the pressure build and build on him until he couldn't take it anymore.The only major dissapointments in Roger's carrer have been handed by Rafa and a lot of people were saying that Fed would never win a GS again after seeing him break down like that.And the anger kept on going as Federer kept losing and even broke a racket in miami.What calmed Fed was the RG win facilitated by soderling's win over Nadal.

Nadal,on the other hand,has had a lot of disappointments in USOpen and AO year after year,he lost 2 Wimbledon finals so it's not like it's been all happy fun.Nadal's problems this year have been with his schedule.He added a whole un-necessary month of tennis which did him in,with a little help from soderling(but it didn't matter cause davydenko would have beaten him too in that sorry state).His knees aren't getting any younger so he cannot recuperate as before,he has too cut down the schedule or else.Rafa's doctor said he should be ok in 3-4 weeks.It's been 2 months and he says he still feels some pain but feels good enough to give it a go.

Sure,the RG defeat jurt because he was never defeated there but Nadal's problem is much bigger than that.He,for the first time in his career,realised he cannot push himself this hard again,he needs some breaks from time to time.He has found out his limitations and that's pretty hard for someone as young and as exuberant on court as Nadal.Sure,he had injuries before but they came late in the season.This is the first time he has had big problems this early,since Monte Carlo.In this spring season he learned a very important lesson,at least I hope he did.If Nadal pushes this hard again,he won't make it another 2 years,mark my words.

Rafa has also stated that he has recovered from the losses mentally but his knees can't be doing too much good for his confidence.Unless he plays again he cannot win.And if he cannot win he cannot gain his confidence back,not to mention getting the game back on track.But if he plays too soon or too much again the whole knee issues start agains and he will be sidelined again.

His knee situation is the one that is truly giving him headaches right now,not the RG defeat.

bolo
08-11-2009, 07:48 AM
Thank you for this. I thought people actually followed and read about tennis... I guess Bolo does not.

I don't consider mcenroe and gilbert experts. I am surprised that you do. Gilbert is well known for his wild predictions at this point. Those two are primarily here to drum up interest in the sport at this point.

Now I do consider cahill an expert commentator. Where did cahill say nadal's RG loss took a toll on nadal mentally?

NamRanger
08-11-2009, 07:52 AM
I don't consider mcenroe and gilbert experts. I am surprised that you do. Gilbert is well known for his wild predictions at this point. Those two are primarily here to drum up interest in the sport at this point.

Now I do consider cahill an expert commentator. Where did cahill say nadal's RG loss took a toll on nadal mentally?



So Patrick McEnroe and Brad Gilbert know nothing about tennis? Right. And you are the next Mahatma Gandhi.

zagor
08-11-2009, 08:00 AM
I don't consider mcenroe and gilbert experts. I am surprised that you do. Gilbert is well known for his wild predictions at this point. Those two are primarily here to drum up interest in the sport at this point.

Now I do consider cahill an expert commentator. Where did cahill say nadal's RG loss took a toll on nadal mentally?

Wasn't there a thread here stating Cahill said Nadal's withdrawal from Wimbledon was both of because of mental and physical issues? I think he even said it was more mental,I'll try to find that thread now.

Edit:Bolo,here's the thread:http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=268955&highlight=cahill

wyutani
08-11-2009, 08:01 AM
hw is gandhi involved here? his jokes doesnt make sense.

NamRanger
08-11-2009, 08:02 AM
I was thinking john mcenre. But you are right jamesblakefan#1 could have been referring to patrick.

More importantly Nam, is this a troll post to keep things going or is this a real post, and are you going to edit out parts later to make yourself look good? :)



More importantly, are you ever going to admit that Darren Cahill is right and you are simply wrong?

bolo
08-11-2009, 08:02 AM
Wasn't there a thread here stating Cahill said Nadal's withdrawal from Wimbledon was both of because of mental and physical issues? I think he even said it was more mental,I'll try to find that thread now.


There was zagor, but cahill for most of that interview was talking specificallly about the mental issues of dealing with tendonitis.

bolo
08-11-2009, 08:03 AM
More importantly, are you ever going to admit that Darren Cahill is right and you are simply wrong?

You mean cahill and his inside sources, himself. lol. :)

Hello I am darren cahill and I am the third man.

zagor
08-11-2009, 08:05 AM
There was zagor, but cahill for most of that interview was talking specificallly about the mental issues of dealing with tendonitis.

Well,maybe it's that Nadal always had tendonitis but could play through the pain but FO loss shock him mentally so it was harder for him to play through it at Wimbledon,where he really has to bend knees.

bolo
08-11-2009, 08:06 AM
Well,maybe it's that Nadal always had tendonitis but could play through the pain but FO loss shock him mentally so it was harder for him to play through it at Wimbledon,where he really has to bend knees.

That's possible. But I don't remember cahill saying that. That's why I was interested.

zagor
08-11-2009, 08:09 AM
That's possible. But I don't remember cahill saying that. That's why I was interested.

I'll listen to his whole interview later as I have to go know,I forgot what he said in that interview precisely other than the fact that he himself had tendonitis.

NamRanger
08-11-2009, 08:14 AM
You mean cahill and his inside sources, himself. lol. :)

Hello I am darren cahill and I am the third man.



"Hello, I am Darren Cahill and my opinion has more weight than yours by a significant margin bolo. Good day mate."

drakulie
08-11-2009, 08:15 AM
So Patrick McEnroe and Brad Gilbert know nothing about tennis? Right. And you are the next Mahatma Gandhi.


actually, bozo, blindism, and ~soso~ know more about tennis, and have more inside information into Nadal than anyone else. Of course, the camera they hid in his shower explains that.

wyutani
08-11-2009, 08:15 AM
"Rule Federer, Federer rules the waves, Federer never never never shall be world no2" :twisted::twisted:

never be no.2? but he WAS no.2 b4 wimbly.

u forgot the word "again" at the end.

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 08:17 AM
I don't consider mcenroe and gilbert experts. I am surprised that you do. Gilbert is well known for his wild predictions at this point. Those two are primarily here to drum up interest in the sport at this point.

Now I do consider cahill an expert commentator. Where did cahill say nadal's RG loss took a toll on nadal mentally?

They are not expert "commentators." They are experts at tennis and what they say come from being experts in their field and years of coaching.

I consider any of the McEnroe's experts. I consider Gilbert an expert. He produced many champions including Agassi and Murray. They all have played professional tennis at the highest levels.

I consider their opinions more weighty than yours. But what's more important is not what they say, but that my logic comes to the same conclusion. We may all be wrong, of course. But I happen to agree with those above mentioned experts and others.

bolo
08-11-2009, 08:19 AM
They are not expert "commentators." They are experts at tennis and what they say come from being experts in their field and years of coaching.

I consider any of the McEnroe's experts. I consider Gilbert an expert. He produced many champions including Agassi and Murray. They all have played professional tennis at the highest levels.

I consider their opinions more weighty than yours. But what's more important is not what they say, but that my logic comes to the same conclusion. We may all be wrong, of course. But I happen to agree with those above mentioned experts and others.

Good job finding support whereever you can T.H. Park.

mandy01
08-11-2009, 08:20 AM
Cahill did say FO loss took a mental toll on Nadal.There was even a thread with an article here.

drakulie
08-11-2009, 08:22 AM
They are not expert "commentators." They are experts at tennis and what they say come from being experts in their field and years of coaching.

I consider any of the McEnroe's experts. I consider Gilbert an expert. He produced many champions including Agassi and Murray. They all have played professional tennis at the highest levels.

I consider their opinions more weighty than yours. But what's more important is not what they say, but that my logic comes to the same conclusion. We may all be wrong, of course. But I happen to agree with those above mentioned experts and others.


Problem is, anyone who has any type of opinion on Nadal, and this opinion in any way shape or form is negative, >>>> it is not true, and they are not experts. This includes, Nadal himself.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-11-2009, 08:23 AM
never be no.2? but he WAS no.2 b4 wimbly.

u forgot the word "again" at the end.
Lol, yes i did

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 08:25 AM
Good job finding support whereever you can T.H. Park.

It's just poor form on your side that you seem to be unable to have a proper discussion. What are you saying, that McEroes and Gilbert and Cahill are not tennis experts? I don't need any support. Read my post. I happen to agree with the experts in this case. Simple, no? You say things without much logic it seems to me.

drakulie
08-11-2009, 08:25 AM
Cahill did say FO loss took a mental toll on Nadal.There was even a thread with an article here.

Even nadal said his knees hurt after Madrid, and he was going thru personal problems. However, being that this is a negative comment on his own character, it could only mean that he is not an expert on himself, and is just being a *******.

bolo
08-11-2009, 08:25 AM
Cahill did say FO loss took a mental toll on Nadal.There was even a thread with an article here.

Most of that thread and cahill's interview was about tendonitis and the withdrawal from wimbledon and not directly about the FO loss. It's possible that cahill mentioned that in that interview but it was not the main subject of that interview.

drakulie
08-11-2009, 08:31 AM
What are you saying, that McEroes and Gilbert and Cahill are not tennis experts?

what he/she is saying is, "as long as these guys say anything I don't like about, Nadal,,,, they are lying, and just hate Nadal, because they are racist."

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 08:31 AM
Most of that thread and cahill's interview was about tendonitis and the withdrawal from wimbledon and not directly about the FO loss. It's possible that cahill mentioned that in that interview but it was not the main subject of that interview.

You have not read the interview, have you? His point was that Nadal's problems are more mental than physical. The mental problem being the outcome of that big loss at RG 09.

NamRanger
08-11-2009, 08:33 AM
You have not read the interview, have you? His point was that Nadal's problems are more mental than physical. The mental problem being the outcome of that big loss at RG 09.




It's ok, he'll never admit he's wrong. It has to do with Nadal.

bolo
08-11-2009, 08:35 AM
You have not read the interview, have you? His point was that Nadal's problems are more mental than physical. The mental problem being the outcome of that big loss at RG 09.

I listened to the interview several times. Cahill's references to it being "mostly psychological" was mostly about dealing with tendonitis and the decision to not play wimbledon. The RG loss, if he mentioned it, was tangential to the main issue of tendonitis.

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 08:37 AM
what he/she is saying is, "as long as these guys say anything I don't like about, Nadal,,,, they are lying, and just hate Nadal, because they are racist."

If it is really about his knees, why in the world would he play doubles on top of singles on hard court (he played doubles on Monday)? Is Nadal stupid? He does not seem stupid to me. Or is he just misleading the world about his knees? Why would he risk playing doubles which will make his knee situation worse, not better, in any given scenario.

Again, the conclusion is quite simple. It is not his knees. It's more mental:

1.If knees are bad -> don't play doubles AND singles

2.If knees are fine -> play singles and doubles and get as much games under your belt on larger court or smaller court.

3.If knees are bad and head is bad -> stay at home

I think no.2. is what we are seeing.

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 08:43 AM
I listened to the interview several times. Cahill's references to it being "mostly psychological" was mostly about dealing with tendonitis and the decision to not play wimbledon. The RG loss, if he mentioned it, was tangential to the main issue of tendonitis.

Bolo, I would suggest you stop this nonsense for your sake.

Tendinitis is physical. "Mostly psychological" means it's mental. His mental state must have been affected by his loss at RG (especially against Soderling), his parents' divorce, and to some degree his knees. Problem is, the only new dimensions in this whole psychological problem are RG 09 loss and the divorce. The knees have been bad for the last 3-4 years.

What do you mean by "The RG loss, if he mentioned it ..." I thought you said, you listened to the interview several times within a few minutes. Meaning you did not listen to the interview prior a few posts back.

namelessone
08-11-2009, 08:51 AM
If it is really about his knees, why in the world would he play doubles on top of singles on hard court (he played doubles on Monday)? Is Nadal stupid? He does not seem stupid to me. Or is he just misleading the world about his knees? Why would he risk playing doubles which will make his knee situation worse, not better, in any given scenario.

Again, the conclusion is quite simple. It is not his knees. It's more mental:

1.If knees are bad -> don't play doubles AND singles

2.If knees are fine -> play singles and doubles and get as much games under your belt on larger court or smaller court.

3.If knees are bad and head is bad -> stay at home

I think no.2. is what we are seeing.

If it was more mental he would have been up and running after 2-3 weeks.No way would Nadal take 2 months off and skip his favourite tournament just because he had mental issues.2 months is approx 60 freaking days.I just can't picture Nadal staying at home for 60 days thinking "Oh I lost RG" 10000 times over while he could have been playing wimbledon.

There is a mental aspect but the primary problem is physical and if you look at Nadal's with tendinitis you will see what I mean.Nadal hasn't retired with tendinitis just in the tough moments,as some haters are saying.Nadal retired last year after Paris Masters with tendinitis and the guy had been on a winning streak that year winning big tournaments.Due to this tendinitis he missed TMC and a very important tournament for him,DC Final.And he rested for 2 and a half months but he came back with good knees at AO.

In regard to nr.2 option.Knees are "fine" now,they weren't fine 2 months ago.They are so "fine" that Nadal says he still feels some pain after 2 months(and his doctor said he would be fine in 3-4 weeks) but feels good enough to give montreal a go.The guy wants to go out and play,he has had enough of rest and recovery.I said in another post that I would have begun with Cincy,but whatever,the guy knows his body better than us.

bolo
08-11-2009, 08:54 AM
Bolo, I would suggest you stop this nonsense for your sake.

Tendinitis is physical. "Mostly psychological" means it's mental. His mental state must have been affected by his loss at RG (especially against Soderling), his parents' divorce, and to some degree his knees. Problem is, the only new dimensions in this whole psychological problem are RG 09 loss and the divorce. The knees have been bad for the last 3-4 years.

What do you mean by "The RG loss, if he mentioned it ..." I thought you said, you listened to the interview several times within a few minutes. Meaning you did not listen to the interview prior a few posts back.

Get a grip T.H. Park.

yes tendonitis is physical. Cahill's point was nadal hit a wall with his tendonitis where he could not longer deal with the psychological aspects of managing the pain and the preparation required to play with the tendonitis. Cahill's claim seemed to be that nadal's tendonitis level did not change but that nadal could not keep dealing with the pain in the usual fashion; and so punted on wimbledon. Did you pay attention at all to what he said? Cahill was drawing heavily from his own psychological experiences from dealing with tendonitis.

Are we even talking about the same interview? I am talking about the one that came out immediately after nadal withdrew from wimbledon.
You should listen to that interview again, that interview was mostly about tendonitis, the psychology of dealing with tendonitis and how that might have contributed to nadal withdrawing from wimbledon. You seemed to have missed cahill's primary points.

~ZoSo~
08-11-2009, 08:56 AM
actually, bozo, blindism, and ~soso~ know more about tennis, and have more inside information into Nadal than anyone else. Of course, the camera they hid in his shower explains that.

Hi Duckulie

I have debated the steroids/suspension skipping post you made.
i havent actually got involved with this cahill mcenroe gilbert stuff. continue making out that i have if you so desire.
have a nice day.

drakulie
08-11-2009, 08:59 AM
If it is really about his knees, why in the world would he play doubles on top of singles on hard court (he played doubles on Monday)?

because his "knee injury", isn't the reason he pulled out of Wimbledon. fact is, as you pointed out, he has had this same problem for 4 years now.


Or is he just misleading the world about his knees?

ding, ding, ding!! You bet he is. I have been saying for a while now, he is being less than truthful about his withdrawal from Wimbledon. I believe (my opinion), that he was either suspended, or he was told if he had a another "shaky" test, he would be banned. So, rather than play Wimbledon where they blood test you, he took time off to clean out his system.

Why would he risk playing doubles which will make his knee situation worse, not better, in any given scenario.

some posters here, who as evidenced by their posts have never played tennis, nor followed the game (pre-nadal), can't seem to grasp that playing tennis (especially on hard courts), would make a knee injury worse, not better.

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 09:36 AM
I am not sure where you get that 2-3 weeks figure from. In the end, however, I think the break was good for him. Or I hope it was good for him as it gave him the opportunity to regroup, let his body rest. Hopefully he will come back strong. I am pretty sure he will, as he has always done so in the past. How strong remains to be seen.

Having said that, you have to realize that RG is the most important tourney for him where he has been untouchable. It was his measuring stick for things to come. It's not just merely losing RG early on, but Madrid losing ins straights on clay, nearly losing to Djokovic on clay earlier, barely getting through to the finals in AO ... etc. He must be feeling the heat and the heat is here to stay. That's what comes along with being (former) no.1.

If it was more mental he would have been up and running after 2-3 weeks.No way would Nadal take 2 months off and skip his favourite tournament just because he had mental issues.2 months is approx 60 freaking days.I just can't picture Nadal staying at home for 60 days thinking "Oh I lost RG" 10000 times over while he could have been playing wimbledon.

There is a mental aspect but the primary problem is physical and if you look at Nadal's with tendinitis you will see what I mean.Nadal hasn't retired with tendinitis just in the tough moments,as some haters are saying.Nadal retired last year after Paris Masters with tendinitis and the guy had been on a winning streak that year winning big tournaments.Due to this tendinitis he missed TMC and a very important tournament for him,DC Final.And he rested for 2 and a half months but he came back with good knees at AO.

In regard to nr.2 option.Knees are "fine" now,they weren't fine 2 months ago.They are so "fine" that Nadal says he still feels some pain after 2 months(and his doctor said he would be fine in 3-4 weeks) but feels good enough to give montreal a go.The guy wants to go out and play,he has had enough of rest and recovery.I said in another post that I would have begun with Cincy,but whatever,the guy knows his body better than us.

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 09:42 AM
Get a grip T.H. Park.

yes tendonitis is physical. Cahill's point was nadal hit a wall with his tendonitis where he could not longer deal with the psychological aspects of managing the pain and the preparation required to play with the tendonitis. Cahill's claim seemed to be that nadal's tendonitis level did not change but that nadal could not keep dealing with the pain in the usual fashion; and so punted on wimbledon. Did you pay attention at all to what he said? Cahill was drawing heavily from his own psychological experiences from dealing with tendonitis.

Are we even talking about the same interview? I am talking about the one that came out immediately after nadal withdrew from wimbledon.
You should listen to that interview again, that interview was mostly about tendonitis, the psychology of dealing with tendonitis and how that might have contributed to nadal withdrawing from wimbledon. You seemed to have missed cahill's primary points.

It's been a while since wimby 09. Do you have the link? That is not how I remember the interview. I am somewhat confused by your statement "Cahill's claim seemed to be that nadal's tendonitis level did not change ..." If he said that, then the knees should be same old, same old? If you have the link to the interview, it might be worthwhile for me to re-read or see it again before I comment on it, just to make sure.

Any thoughts on why one would play doubles matches in a tourney when one's knees are hurting?

bolo
08-11-2009, 10:01 AM
It's been a while since wimby 09. Do you have the link? That is not how I remember the interview. I am somewhat confused by your statement "Cahill's claim seemed to be that nadal's tendonitis level did not change ..." If he said that, then the knees should be same old, same old? If you have the link to the interview, it might be worthwhile for me to re-read or see it again before I comment on it, just to make sure.

Any thoughts on why one would play doubles matches in a tourney when one's knees are hurting?

I tried for about 15 min. to find the clip but could not.

I was unclear, when I said "claim". Cahill didn't explicitly say nadal's tendonitis level did not change. Cahill's primary theme of that interview was that nadal basically broke psychologically and that he mostly broke due to mental burden of playing day in and day out with tendonitis.

After the initial interview, on a live espn wimbledon broadcast, cahill talked about his own experiences about how difficult it was mentally to keep playing with tendonitis; that Cahill tapped out at some point. I inferred that Cahill must believe the tendonitis level for nadal must have been constant over the last few months before wimbledon otherwise imo Cahill would have focussed more on the actual tendonitis itself and less on the psychological upkeep of dealing with the tendonitis.

It's possilble nadal is playing doubles because he needs match play and likely expects to lose early on in singles.

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 10:09 AM
OK, I cannot find the whole interview and clip is not working anymore. So, I am not sure how you were to see it, or read it if you had not done so before, which you said you did not until I brought it up.

In any case, here's a portion of Cahill's interview (http://www.****************.com/showthread.php?t=146242) that I found:

"Darren Cahill: Well, firstly, I think everyone's extremely disappointed he's not going to be defending his title. I think the year that he had in the last 12-months and the match that they played between Federer and Nadal here last year, for me, was the best tennis match I've ever seen -- we won't get a repeat of that.

We sort of saw it coming, big surprise at the French Open, a loss to Soderling. And he's been complaining of knee problems for quite sometime, he played a really heavy schedule going into the French Open. I think if he could have his time back, he probably wouldn't have played Barcelona, his home tournament, or maybe even Madrid coming into the French Open; but he's done that. He's promised everybody that his knee problems are not chronic, it's not career-ending, he just needs some time off. But I think to me, just a gathering from the press conference here, it seems to be a little more mental than physical and he just knows that he's hit a wall at the moment. And with the knee problems he has he's not getting any better. So, I think it's quite a lot psychological and not so much physical, to be quite honest."

I am not sure where you got the idea that Cahill said that the psychological problems stem from his knees/tendinitis. He did not say it (at least not in this excerpt). What he said above is, Nadal's hit the wall (losing to people like Soderling I am assuming) AND with the knees it's not going to get any better. In other words, he was referring to the mental side of things where he hit the wall (or clay really) and his knees not helping him. Agree?

I tried for about 15 min. to find the clip but could not.

I was unclear, when I said "claim". Cahill didn't explicitly say nadal's tendonitis level did not change. Cahill's primary theme of that interview was that nadal basically broke psychologically and that he mostly broke due to mental burden of playing day in and day out with tendonitis.

After the initial interview, on a live espn wimbledon broadcast, cahill talked about his own experiences about how difficult it was mentally to keep playing with tendonitis; that Cahill tapped out at some point. I inferred that Cahill must believe the tendonitis level for nadal must have been constant over the last few months before wimbledon otherwise imo Cahill would have focussed more on the actual tendonitis itself and less on the psychological upkeep of dealing with the tendonitis.

It's possilble nadal is playing doubles because he needs match play and likely expects to lose early on in singles.

drakulie
08-11-2009, 10:15 AM
I tried for about 15 min. to find the clip but could not.



Perhaps if you call "laptop girl", she could get it for you. :)

drakulie
08-11-2009, 10:18 AM
Agree?


he/she will never "agree", because cahill is being way too negative, and any time someone is negative towards, Nadal>>> they are either lying, or haters.

namelessone
08-11-2009, 10:37 AM
I am not sure where you get that 2-3 weeks figure from. In the end, however, I think the break was good for him. Or I hope it was good for him as it gave him the opportunity to regroup, let his body rest. Hopefully he will come back strong. I am pretty sure he will, as he has always done so in the past. How strong remains to be seen.

Having said that, you have to realize that RG is the most important tourney for him where he has been untouchable. It was his measuring stick for things to come. It's not just merely losing RG early on, but Madrid losing ins straights on clay, nearly losing to Djokovic on clay earlier, barely getting through to the finals in AO ... etc. He must be feeling the heat and the heat is here to stay. That's what comes along with being (former) no.1.

The 2-3 weeks was coming from me,not from any sources.I just can't imagine a player spending 2 months off-court just for mental reasons.Nadal's problem is way bigger than the RG loss.He realised that he has to manage his body.His problems with knees have cause others to come closer to him on clay and even beat him.He now knows that he has to manage the knees in order to win more masters&Slams.Before he had knee problems around the end of summer,now it's in the beginning of spring,so that is a big red warning sign for him.Nadal was feeling the heat just fine after imprving his previous result at the USOpen and winning AO for the first time.His problem is with the knees,not with the heat.Even with pain he still won 3 big clay events,not to mention IW before the knee pain came back in MC.Nadal's knees took him off the map not the pressure.

Madrid wasn't big for him.He entered only because it was in Spain.He complained about the wierd clay conditions from the very start and barely made finals.What worried him most was djokovic getting close and his mediocre clay court game this season,at least for his standards.In AO,he wasn't feeling any heat.He lost there 4 years running and although he was nr.1 in actual fact he was the nr.4 favourite after Murray,Fed and Djokovic.And still he won it with a tremendous,knee-breaking effort.His problem is that he doesn't manage his schedule well.After pounding the knees on HC for 2 weeks(i was feeling tired just by watching his matches against simon/verdasco/fed) he plays freaking rotterdam and gets a minor injury in a ligament in the final against murray.After the mini HC season,he starts feeling pain in MC.What does he do? He plays non-stop every goddam clay tournament up until RG,worsening his knee condition.It's now wonder he had to withdraw from wimbledon.

If you asked anyone before RG how was Nadal as nr.1 I'm sure most would have agreed that he was just fine.His knees blew away his 3000 something points lead over Federer in a few weeks.But we all knew he couldn't exactly stay 3-4 years at nr.1,his game isn't built for longevity.But it's shame he didn't last 4 more weeks,Rafa deserved a full year at nr.1 after fighting for 3 years in order to get it.

bolo
08-11-2009, 10:37 AM
OK, I cannot find the whole interview and clip is not working anymore. So, I am not sure how you were to see it, or read it if you had not done so before, which you said you did not until I brought it up.

In any case, here's a portion of Cahill's interview (http://www.****************.com/showthread.php?t=146242) that I found:

"Darren Cahill: Well, firstly, I think everyone's extremely disappointed he's not going to be defending his title. I think the year that he had in the last 12-months and the match that they played between Federer and Nadal here last year, for me, was the best tennis match I've ever seen -- we won't get a repeat of that.

We sort of saw it coming, big surprise at the French Open, a loss to Soderling. And he's been complaining of knee problems for quite sometime, he played a really heavy schedule going into the French Open. I think if he could have his time back, he probably wouldn't have played Barcelona, his home tournament, or maybe even Madrid coming into the French Open; but he's done that. He's promised everybody that his knee problems are not chronic, it's not career-ending, he just needs some time off. But I think to me, just a gathering from the press conference here, it seems to be a little more mental than physical and he just knows that he's hit a wall at the moment. And with the knee problems he has he's not getting any better. So, I think it's quite a lot psychological and not so much physical, to be quite honest."

I am not sure where you got the idea that Cahill said that the psychological problems stem from his knees/tendinitis. He did not say it (at least not in this excerpt). What he said above is, Nadal's hit the wall (losing to people like Soderling I am assuming) AND with the knees it's not going to get any better. In other words, he was referring to the mental side of things where he hit the wall (or clay really) and his knees not helping him. Agree?

Cahill was vague in that initial short interview about what he meant by "quite a lot psychological", vague enough that some posters like me who respect cahill's opinions were confused. About a day later on the live broadcast he went into great detail about his thought process.

here is a good summary:

http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/06/22/darren-cahill-feels-rafael-nadals-knee-pain/

Most of cahill's analysis of nadal's withdrawal amounts to matching up cahill's own experiences with tendonitis with what cahill "gathered" from watching and listening to nadal speak during the wimbledon press conference.

I am not sure what you are talking about with all the other stuff about me only seeing it now. I posted extensively on this issue, the initial clip and cahill's explications in June on these boards.

zagor
08-11-2009, 12:14 PM
But I think to me, just a gathering from the press conference here, it seems to be a little more mental than physical and he just knows that he's hit a wall at the moment. And with the knee problems he has he's not getting any better. So, I think it's quite a lot psychological and not so much physical, to be quite honest."

I am not sure where you got the idea that Cahill said that the psychological problems stem from his knees/tendinitis. He did not say it (at least not in this excerpt). What he said above is, Nadal's hit the wall (losing to people like Soderling I am assuming) AND with the knees it's not going to get any better. In other words, he was referring to the mental side of things where he hit the wall (or clay really) and his knees not helping him. Agree?

Thanks for posting this,so yeah Cahill apparently did say he things it was more mental(psychological than physical)in the case of Nadal's withdrawal from Wimbledon.

All-rounder
08-11-2009, 12:20 PM
Thanks for posting this,so yeah Cahill apparently did say he things it was more mental(psychological than physical)in the case of Nadal's withdrawal from Wimbledon.
Which I think it is I have seen nadal play slams with injuries. US open 2007 and 2008 (well nadal fans say he was tired so....) FO 2009 (same thing nadal fans say he was tired from playing too many matches and early knee problems in the soderling match lol :))

T. H. Park
08-11-2009, 01:19 PM
You make some good points. However, some I don't agree with. I don't think it's his knees that made him lose or come close to losing recently. His knees have been bad for a long time. I think that is not giving enough credit to the the other players. Players are getting the hang of Nadal as is inevitably so for all players at the top. People are beating Federer because they are figuring him out AND he is getting older. It's not just because he is getting older. That again, would be giving no/little credit to others.

Weird clay conditions are the same for everyone. That's like saying Wimbledon has become slower and that is why Federer lost to Nadal or Nadal even came close the past few times. The conditions are the same for everyone. Sure, some conditions benefit particular players, but clay is not faster than hard courts or grass. Nadal is a beast on clay (whatever clay it is). He is, IMO, the best clay-courter ever by far.

I also agree, before RG 09, I had little doubts that Nadal was going to win. That was not to be. People are figuring him out. He lost not because of his knees, but because the other played on that day played better. If you play 100 matches, I would still give Nadal the edge over everyone on clay. Edge, however, does not mean he is as good as last year, for example.

I also agree that Nadal is not built for longevity. I am rather surprised that it has come so quickly though. His career is far from over, however. So, he will still be the favorite come clay court season next year. Less so than this year, even less than last year etc. ... Unless of course, something interesting happens along the way and he regroups and totally overcomes his obstacles, whatever they may be.

The 2-3 weeks was coming from me,not from any sources.I just can't imagine a player spending 2 months off-court just for mental reasons.Nadal's problem is way bigger than the RG loss.He realised that he has to manage his body.His problems with knees have cause others to come closer to him on clay and even beat him.He now knows that he has to manage the knees in order to win more masters&Slams.Before he had knee problems around the end of summer,now it's in the beginning of spring,so that is a big red warning sign for him.Nadal was feeling the heat just fine after imprving his previous result at the USOpen and winning AO for the first time.His problem is with the knees,not with the heat.Even with pain he still won 3 big clay events,not to mention IW before the knee pain came back in MC.Nadal's knees took him off the map not the pressure.

Madrid wasn't big for him.He entered only because it was in Spain.He complained about the wierd clay conditions from the very start and barely made finals.What worried him most was djokovic getting close and his mediocre clay court game this season,at least for his standards.In AO,he wasn't feeling any heat.He lost there 4 years running and although he was nr.1 in actual fact he was the nr.4 favourite after Murray,Fed and Djokovic.And still he won it with a tremendous,knee-breaking effort.His problem is that he doesn't manage his schedule well.After pounding the knees on HC for 2 weeks(i was feeling tired just by watching his matches against simon/verdasco/fed) he plays freaking rotterdam and gets a minor injury in a ligament in the final against murray.After the mini HC season,he starts feeling pain in MC.What does he do? He plays non-stop every goddam clay tournament up until RG,worsening his knee condition.It's now wonder he had to withdraw from wimbledon.

If you asked anyone before RG how was Nadal as nr.1 I'm sure most would have agreed that he was just fine.His knees blew away his 3000 something points lead over Federer in a few weeks.But we all knew he couldn't exactly stay 3-4 years at nr.1,his game isn't built for longevity.But it's shame he didn't last 4 more weeks,Rafa deserved a full year at nr.1 after fighting for 3 years in order to get it.

namelessone
08-11-2009, 10:03 PM
You make some good points. However, some I don't agree with. I don't think it's his knees that made him lose or come close to losing recently. His knees have been bad for a long time. I think that is not giving enough credit to the the other players. Players are getting the hang of Nadal as is inevitably so for all players at the top. People are beating Federer because they are figuring him out AND he is getting older. It's not just because he is getting older. That again, would be giving no/little credit to others.

Weird clay conditions are the same for everyone. That's like saying Wimbledon has become slower and that is why Federer lost to Nadal or Nadal even came close the past few times. The conditions are the same for everyone. Sure, some conditions benefit particular players, but clay is not faster than hard courts or grass. Nadal is a beast on clay (whatever clay it is). He is, IMO, the best clay-courter ever by far.

I also agree, before RG 09, I had little doubts that Nadal was going to win. That was not to be. People are figuring him out. He lost not because of his knees, but because the other played on that day played better. If you play 100 matches, I would still give Nadal the edge over everyone on clay. Edge, however, does not mean he is as good as last year, for example.

I also agree that Nadal is not built for longevity. I am rather surprised that it has come so quickly though. His career is far from over, however. So, he will still be the favorite come clay court season next year. Less so than this year, even less than last year etc. ... Unless of course, something interesting happens along the way and he regroups and totally overcomes his obstacles, whatever they may be.


Nadal is at his very best in the traditional clay conditions,where there is a thick top layer of clay.I agree that he can win in most clay conditions but his defeats were on the faster clay courts of hamburg and now madrid.Even in RG he played in faster conditions.

Now obviously Nadal can't win all the time,and I don't mean just on clay.He will get beat a couple of times,it happens to all players.I will buy the "Nadal has been figured out" argument when I will see players in the top ten at least giving him real problems.People haven't figured out Federer,Nadal figured out Federer.Fed suffered shock defeats after losses with Nadal with guys like fish,stephanek,karlovic and so on.If the meets them today he pounds them into the ground.That was not normal Fed that met them,it was a guy with mental and game issues.

Same goes for Nadal.To quote FYB,Nadal has been bringing his B-game to this clay season for whatever reason(whether it was burnout,knees,parents divorce or other unknown reasons)and it carried on into RG.Nadal playing mediocre for his standards won 3 clay titles(MC,barca,Rome)and made a 4th clay final of the year in Madrid.Even playing average tennis he kept djokovic in his place twice and barely got beat by a Fed playing no pressure(6-4,6-4).
People will figure out Fed/Nadal when they beat them regularly.Rafa has been figured out for years now at the AO and USOpen and yet kept improving his result there year after year.Who the hell though Nadal could win AO 09' after what Tsonga did to him in 08'?

I didn't think Nadal could be beat in RG,even playing badly until I saw his first match.hat's when the seed of doubt were sown in my head.I saw Rafa playing mediocre in the clay season but I thought he might be pacing himself because it is a long season.I saw him lose to Fed in Madrid but he seemed off that day,both in movement and in shot making.I though perhaps the madrid semifinal had something to do with it.Then Nadal lost an exo to nr.109 in the world.I said,ah well,it's just 1 set exo.

Then I saw his match against 31 old Daniel.At first I felt like puking after seeing his awful shirt.Then I matched the match.Daniel was playing ok but Nadal was dreadful.Arriving late on normal balls for him,shanking both BH and FH,giving off weak replys to daniel,and eventually giving like 12 games to this average at most player.If Daniel would have had balls that day he would have taken at least 1 set.Then the gabashvili match.He was a bit better but gabashvili is again,a mediocre player.He destroyed hewitt but hewitt is bad on clay,not to mention the fact that he was a veteran who had hip surgery recently.Hewitt having 35 UF while Rafa having just 17 helped also.

At this point in the tournament I wasn't convinced that he would win RG and the next round proved me right.At the first in form player Nadal collapsed because this time he was punished for his mediocre play.Although it was a bad defeat,it was still 4 sets out of which 3 were closely contested affairs,but Nadal just couldn't hold on.His knees were bothering him and soderling made him run a lot.Nadal had chances to break back but squandered them with weird UE at the most inoportune of times,especially when he could have breaked to win the 4th set.

Yes,Nadal is not built for longevity.Nothing about him screams longevity.We are talking about a guy who has been winning slams or going far in Slams/masters since he was 19.If you count this year too,that is 5 years at the top.He entered the top 50 when he was 16.He won DC when he was 18.He won RG when he was 19.Made 3 WB finals until he was 22.But while he was doing this his knees were keeping him away,especially at the end of the season.Guys who have early starts rarely keep going into their 30's.If you look at past tennis greats it's better to start winning a bit later.You can have a more complete game by then(fed was a more mature player when he started winning big in 2003-2004 then Nadal at 19 in 2005) and the pressure won't get to you because you have a more mature attitude about the game,not to mention the fact that you had more time to perfect your game.Nadal had to improve his game on the run,because he has had pressure on him since he won his first RG.
Look at Borg,the quintessential meteroric rise man.He was very talented,won 11 slams on the 2 polar opposites of the tennis world,RG and WB,but retired at 25-26 years old.I give Rafa 3-4 more years to win Slams.Will he ever get to nr.1 again? I don't think it matters to him.I think he proved his point.He said he wanted to be nr.1 one day and he did,and that is a tremendous achievement,to be nr.1 for almost a year in the age of federer.

T. H. Park
08-12-2009, 07:53 AM
Again, some good points. Agree with most. I did not say people have figured out Nadal (nor Federer). They are figuring him. It also helps, that the are (especially Federer) not as good as they used to be (Federer in his prime was literally unbeatable). Obviously Nadal and Federer are still the favorites wherever they go, they are just too good, no matter what surface type. Both Nadal and Federer have had their mental sides hurt a bit, and as you say, have been losing a bit more, and for Nadal, even causing him to not show up at Wimbledon. That's my point. It seems to me that his withdrawal is more mental than physical. Not saying it is only mental of course. The rest will hopefully have done him some good on all fronts.

Don't agree with the Soderling match though at RG. Nadal had, of course, chances. He always does - he is Nadal. Soderling just outplayed him, as he outplayed Davy, Ferrer, Gonzo. He used high-risk tennis and it paid off. There was little Nadal could do, and Soderling had nothing (at all) to lose. And he won. Watching the match, I thought that Nadal would come back in the 3rd - he always does. He almost did. Had he won the 4th, he would've won the match. I am pretty sure. He would've gone deep and maybe even won the whole tourney. That day and that tournament, Soderling was just too good. If the opponent is too good, the other guy on the net cannot play their game. That's what happened and that's what I saw.

As far as longevity, it is obvious to me, and most people who know tennis, that Nadal is not going to last a long time at the top. His game just does not allow that sort of stretching of one's career. That's where the dimensionality comes is as well. His style is not malleable enough to let him become a serve and volleyer, for example. Nor does it allow him to finish off points quickly. That would simply not be Nadal. I think 3 years or so seems about right. He'll be competitive on clay, but any other surface will be tough for him. That said, he has already accomplished so much, so that's really an incredible career he has had so far. As I said, just unlucky that he peaked so early while Federer was playing. Had he started to peak right about now, he would've been at the very top for 3 years or so and done even better ... now that's scary.

Nadal is at his very best in the traditional clay conditions,where there is a thick top layer of clay.I agree that he can win in most clay conditions but his defeats were on the faster clay courts of hamburg and now madrid.Even in RG he played in faster conditions.

Now obviously Nadal can't win all the time,and I don't mean just on clay.He will get beat a couple of times,it happens to all players.I will buy the "Nadal has been figured out" argument when I will see players in the top ten at least giving him real problems.People haven't figured out Federer,Nadal figured out Federer.Fed suffered shock defeats after losses with Nadal with guys like fish,stephanek,karlovic and so on.If the meets them today he pounds them into the ground.That was not normal Fed that met them,it was a guy with mental and game issues.

Same goes for Nadal.To quote FYB,Nadal has been bringing his B-game to this clay season for whatever reason(whether it was burnout,knees,parents divorce or other unknown reasons)and it carried on into RG.Nadal playing mediocre for his standards won 3 clay titles(MC,barca,Rome)and made a 4th clay final of the year in Madrid.Even playing average tennis he kept djokovic in his place twice and barely got beat by a Fed playing no pressure(6-4,6-4).
People will figure out Fed/Nadal when they beat them regularly.Rafa has been figured out for years now at the AO and USOpen and yet kept improving his result there year after year.Who the hell though Nadal could win AO 09' after what Tsonga did to him in 08'?

I didn't think Nadal could be beat in RG,even playing badly until I saw his first match.hat's when the seed of doubt were sown in my head.I saw Rafa playing mediocre in the clay season but I thought he might be pacing himself because it is a long season.I saw him lose to Fed in Madrid but he seemed off that day,both in movement and in shot making.I though perhaps the madrid semifinal had something to do with it.Then Nadal lost an exo to nr.109 in the world.I said,ah well,it's just 1 set exo.

Then I saw his match against 31 old Daniel.At first I felt like puking after seeing his awful shirt.Then I matched the match.Daniel was playing ok but Nadal was dreadful.Arriving late on normal balls for him,shanking both BH and FH,giving off weak replys to daniel,and eventually giving like 12 games to this average at most player.If Daniel would have had balls that day he would have taken at least 1 set.Then the gabashvili match.He was a bit better but gabashvili is again,a mediocre player.He destroyed hewitt but hewitt is bad on clay,not to mention the fact that he was a veteran who had hip surgery recently.Hewitt having 35 UF while Rafa having just 17 helped also.

At this point in the tournament I wasn't convinced that he would win RG and the next round proved me right.At the first in form player Nadal collapsed because this time he was punished for his mediocre play.Although it was a bad defeat,it was still 4 sets out of which 3 were closely contested affairs,but Nadal just couldn't hold on.His knees were bothering him and soderling made him run a lot.Nadal had chances to break back but squandered them with weird UE at the most inoportune of times,especially when he could have breaked to win the 4th set.

Yes,Nadal is not built for longevity.Nothing about him screams longevity.We are talking about a guy who has been winning slams or going far in Slams/masters since he was 19.If you count this year too,that is 5 years at the top.He entered the top 50 when he was 16.He won DC when he was 18.He won RG when he was 19.Made 3 WB finals until he was 22.But while he was doing this his knees were keeping him away,especially at the end of the season.Guys who have early starts rarely keep going into their 30's.If you look at past tennis greats it's better to start winning a bit later.You can have a more complete game by then(fed was a more mature player when he started winning big in 2003-2004 then Nadal at 19 in 2005) and the pressure won't get to you because you have a more mature attitude about the game,not to mention the fact that you had more time to perfect your game.Nadal had to improve his game on the run,because he has had pressure on him since he won his first RG.
Look at Borg,the quintessential meteroric rise man.He was very talented,won 11 slams on the 2 polar opposites of the tennis world,RG and WB,but retired at 25-26 years old.I give Rafa 3-4 more years to win Slams.Will he ever get to nr.1 again? I don't think it matters to him.I think he proved his point.He said he wanted to be nr.1 one day and he did,and that is a tremendous achievement,to be nr.1 for almost a year in the age of federer.

bolo
08-12-2009, 06:43 PM
Good call by nadal. He was rusty and slow on his return, pretty **** poor 1st serve %.

rafan
08-12-2009, 11:37 PM
OK, I cannot find the whole interview and clip is not working anymore. So, I am not sure how you were to see it, or read it if you had not done so before, which you said you did not until I brought it up.

In any case, here's a portion of Cahill's interview (http://www.****************.com/showthread.php?t=146242) that I found:

"Darren Cahill: Well, firstly, I think everyone's extremely disappointed he's not going to be defending his title. I think the year that he had in the last 12-months and the match that they played between Federer and Nadal here last year, for me, was the best tennis match I've ever seen -- we won't get a repeat of that.

We sort of saw it coming, big surprise at the French Open, a loss to Soderling. And he's been complaining of knee problems for quite sometime, he played a really heavy schedule going into the French Open. I think if he could have his time back, he probably wouldn't have played Barcelona, his home tournament, or maybe even Madrid coming into the French Open; but he's done that. He's promised everybody that his knee problems are not chronic, it's not career-ending, he just needs some time off. But I think to me, just a gathering from the press conference here, it seems to be a little more mental than physical and he just knows that he's hit a wall at the moment. And with the knee problems he has he's not getting any better. So, I think it's quite a lot psychological and not so much physical, to be quite honest."

I am not sure where you got the idea that Cahill said that the psychological problems stem from his knees/tendinitis. He did not say it (at least not in this excerpt). What he said above is, Nadal's hit the wall (losing to people like Soderling I am assuming) AND with the knees it's not going to get any better. In other words, he was referring to the mental side of things where he hit the wall (or clay really) and his knees not helping him. Agree?

Anyone who has an atom of senitivty would know that Nadal has been through a great deal this year. Even if you do not like one particular parent, divorce is still a shattering experience and in the sort of close knit society he lives in - it cannot be easy for him. Of course any physical problem will be worse if your mind is already in a state of anxiety. You only need a bit of personal experience of life to know that. Also Nadal is now a high profile sportsman and he has to share all his personal details with the world. I think a lot of those people on this board who's basic reason for disliking him is down right envy- because he has achieved so much in a short lifetime -should consider the fact that money and fame is a double edged sword. Its great to see him back and already the world of tennis is more colourful and alive with his being there.

maximo
08-12-2009, 11:38 PM
Good call by nadal. He was rusty and slow on his return, pretty **** poor 1st serve %.

Yep.

A lot of shots just crashed into the middle of the net, very unlike Nadal. :(

rafan
08-12-2009, 11:46 PM
Yep.

A lot of shots just crashed into the middle of the net, very unlike Nadal. :(

The most incredible thing about Nadal is the fact that his service game has sometimes been just passable. The fact that he has achieved so much without being a big server is testament to just how great a player he is

maximo
08-12-2009, 11:50 PM
The most incredible thing about Nadal is the fact that his service game has sometimes been just passable. The fact that he has achieved so much without being a big server is testament to just how great a player he is

Yep.

He wasn't moving anywhere near aswell as he used to. Rusty perhaps?

cknobman
08-13-2009, 05:39 AM
Nadal got lucky yesterday. Ferrers injury made that match all too short and sweet. Not saying Nadal wouldnt have won if Ferrer had finished the match but it would have been a tough match.

Now lucky Nadal gets to play a fairly low ranked player with a losing record this season.

T. H. Park
08-13-2009, 10:32 PM
Anyone who has an atom of senitivty would know that Nadal has been through a great deal this year. Even if you do not like one particular parent, divorce is still a shattering experience and in the sort of close knit society he lives in - it cannot be easy for him. Of course any physical problem will be worse if your mind is already in a state of anxiety. You only need a bit of personal experience of life to know that. Also Nadal is now a high profile sportsman and he has to share all his personal details with the world. I think a lot of those people on this board who's basic reason for disliking him is down right envy- because he has achieved so much in a short lifetime -should consider the fact that money and fame is a double edged sword. Its great to see him back and already the world of tennis is more colourful and alive with his being there.

No doubt about Nadal having gone through some difficult times. On many levels and not just tenns - his family. I already mentioned this in my other posts. I am not sure about the envy part. If it were envy, one basically should "dislike" all the top players (who have both fame and fortune) like Federer, Roddick, Murray, etc. So, that has probably nothing to do with most people who do "dislike" him. I do, however, not dislike him. I don't even know him. Not too impressed about his knee "excuse" for losing RG, Madrid, exhibitions, etc. Also, no doubt that with Nadal back, it's more interesting.

rafan
08-14-2009, 04:48 AM
No doubt about Nadal having gone through some difficult times. On many levels and not just tenns - his family. I already mentioned this in my other posts. I am not sure about the envy part. If it were envy, one basically should "dislike" all the top players (who have both fame and fortune) like Federer, Roddick, Murray, etc. So, that has probably nothing to do with most people who do "dislike" him. I do, however, not dislike him. I don't even know him. Not too impressed about his knee "excuse" for losing RG, Madrid, exhibitions, etc. Also, no doubt that with Nadal back, it's more interesting.

Do you accept Federers excuse for not winning much last year? You do not have to know a player, sometimes, to see that they cannot go on playing and living the way they do: intense training, travelling and having to stay at the top without something failing somewhere. In that respect with both Federer and Nadal it was only a matter of time before we saw the results of too much of the treadmill. In Nadal's case it was his knees and Federer his immune system. Yes I can imagine Nadal being a source of envy. He is young, talented, very attractive and rich, oh and he gets noticed a lot more than the above ones you mentioned!

Fedace
08-14-2009, 04:53 AM
Nadal is the Lance Armstrong of tennis.

He managed to get 6 majors and reach the number one position with half a knee.

Why ?? You think he uses EPO ?

cknobman
08-14-2009, 05:36 AM
Why ?? You think he uses EPO ?

HGH .......?

T. H. Park
08-14-2009, 08:33 AM
Do you accept Federers excuse for not winning much last year? You do not have to know a player, sometimes, to see that they cannot go on playing and living the way they do: intense training, travelling and having to stay at the top without something failing somewhere. In that respect with both Federer and Nadal it was only a matter of time before we saw the results of too much of the treadmill. In Nadal's case it was his knees and Federer his immune system. Yes I can imagine Nadal being a source of envy. He is young, talented, very attractive and rich, oh and he gets noticed a lot more than the above ones you mentioned!

Federer did not pull out of any tournament. He went to the finals in all GSs except AO. Even after he broke down this year at the AO. In reality, it was his time to come down from the heavens to the normal world of tennis where one loses more often. I don't think he blamed "everything" on mono per se. He said it attributed to it. Having said that, I don't care too much about how and why etc. ... He competed and felt good enough to compete. Nadal felt good enough to compete at RG and because he lost at RG, he bailed out at Wimby. If Fed would've bailed out, say USO, after Wimby, I would have been very unimpressed as well. For Nadal, it has not that much to do with his knees - at the present. Otherwise he would not be playing doubles in Montreal on HC of all places. I say this: had he won the 4th set against Soldering at RG 09, Nadal would've probably won the match and gone to the finals and won the whole thing. Blaming it on your knees when they have been shot for the last 3 years or so is poor form. I hope it works for him to convince himself of that - if that's what it takes to gain confidence.

As far as "He is young, talented, very attractive and rich, oh and he gets noticed a lot more than the above ones you mentioned!" That is your opinion. Sure, he is more popular than Murray and Roddick, but has never been more popular (ATP players or fans) than Federer, sorry to say (if you measure it by the sportsmanship awards and fan awards). Having said that, I personally do not think he is attractive at all, likewise for Murray actually. But that's my personal opinion. In the end, it does not matter much to me, how one looks. For you apparently this seems quite important. His tennis skills, however, are something to be admired without a doubt.

rafan
08-14-2009, 08:59 AM
Federer did not pull out of any tournament. He went to the finals in all GSs except AO. Even after he broke down this year at the AO. In reality, it was his time to come down from the heavens to the normal world of tennis where one loses more often. I don't think he blamed "everything" on mono per se. He said it attributed to it. Having said that, I don't care too much about how and why etc. ... He competed and felt good enough to compete. Nadal felt good enough to compete at RG and because he lost at RG, he bailed out at Wimby. If Fed would've bailed out, say USO, after Wimby, I would have been very unimpressed as well. For Nadal, it has not that much to do with his knees - at the present. Otherwise he would not be playing doubles in Montreal on HC of all places. I say this: had he won the 4th set against Soldering at RG 09, Nadal would've probably won the match and gone to the finals and won the whole thing. Blaming it on your knees when they have been shot for the last 3 years or so is poor form. I hope it works for him to convince himself of that - if that's what it takes to gain confidence.

As far as "He is young, talented, very attractive and rich, oh and he gets noticed a lot more than the above ones you mentioned!" That is your opinion. Sure, he is more popular than Murray and Roddick, but has never been more popular (ATP players or fans) than Federer, sorry to say (if you measure it by the sportsmanship awards and fan awards). Having said that, I personally do not think he is attractive at all, likewise for Murray actually. But that's my personal opinion. In the end, it does not matter much to me, how one looks. For you apparently this seems quite important. His tennis skills, however, are something to be admired without a doubt.

Nadal is still the new guy on the block compared to Federer. However he evokes an enormous amount of "discussion". No it wasn't just the way he looked that made me realise he was different. Nadal is still there after many have fallen by the wayside. From the first time i saw him play I realised he had what it takes to be great in the tennis world: primarily guts and determiantion. You cannot compare a crippling injury that renders you unable to move properly to a virus that can be controlled with drugs. One thing about Nadal by the way. I think Nadal has behaved extemely well the way he has handled his break. No tearful dramas - or silly outbursts .............

Aabye
08-14-2009, 09:16 AM
Federer did not pull out of any tournament. He went to the finals in all GSs except AO. Even after he broke down this year at the AO. In reality, it was his time to come down from the heavens to the normal world of tennis where one loses more often. I don't think he blamed "everything" on mono per se. He said it attributed to it. Having said that, I don't care too much about how and why etc. ... He competed and felt good enough to compete. Nadal felt good enough to compete at RG and because he lost at RG, he bailed out at Wimby. If Fed would've bailed out, say USO, after Wimby, I would have been very unimpressed as well. For Nadal, it has not that much to do with his knees - at the present. Otherwise he would not be playing doubles in Montreal on HC of all places. I say this: had he won the 4th set against Soldering at RG 09, Nadal would've probably won the match and gone to the finals and won the whole thing. Blaming it on your knees when they have been shot for the last 3 years or so is poor form. I hope it works for him to convince himself of that - if that's what it takes to gain confidence.

As far as "He is young, talented, very attractive and rich, oh and he gets noticed a lot more than the above ones you mentioned!" That is your opinion. Sure, he is more popular than Murray and Roddick, but has never been more popular (ATP players or fans) than Federer, sorry to say (if you measure it by the sportsmanship awards and fan awards). Having said that, I personally do not think he is attractive at all, likewise for Murray actually. But that's my personal opinion. In the end, it does not matter much to me, how one looks. For you apparently this seems quite important. His tennis skills, however, are something to be admired without a doubt.

Why doesn't anybody consider the fact that his knees might have gotten worse?

drakulie
08-14-2009, 09:23 AM
Why doesn't anybody consider the fact that his knees might have gotten worse?

and will continue to get worse if he continues to play (singles and doubles I might add), while suffering an injury so severe, he pulled out of Wimbledon.

The again, perhaps his Doctor prescribed the perfect treatment to rehab him>>> play tennis on hard courts as much as you can.

CCNM
08-14-2009, 09:41 AM
Didn't watch his match yesterday but either he looked pretty good or Petzner looked pretty bad....

T. H. Park
08-14-2009, 10:23 AM
Nadal is still the new guy on the block compared to Federer. However he evokes an enormous amount of "discussion". No it wasn't just the way he looked that made me realise he was different. Nadal is still there after many have fallen by the wayside. From the first time i saw him play I realised he had what it takes to be great in the tennis world: primarily guts and determiantion. You cannot compare a crippling injury that renders you unable to move properly to a virus that can be controlled with drugs. One thing about Nadal by the way. I think Nadal has behaved extemely well the way he has handled his break. No tearful dramas - or silly outbursts .............

New guy on the block? You are kidding, right? He has been no. 2 for like 4 years (?) and no.1 ... not new kid anymore. Some people get to their prime early, while some later. There is no crippling injury. That's what Toni and Nadal want you to think. It's more in his head that has the crippling injury not his knees. You are right though, no tearful dramas like Federer. Just the knee, not 100%, tired excuse card.

bolo
08-14-2009, 10:49 AM
Why doesn't anybody consider the fact that his knees might have gotten worse?

that's too inconvenient, then they might have to cut down on the spewage (steroids etc.).

namelessone
08-14-2009, 11:19 AM
that's too inconvenient, then they might have to cut down on the spewage (steroids etc.).

This is exactly what I was saying when people kept going on and on about with "it's the same condition he had the past 4 years",choosing to ignore the fact that he has had tendinits problems earlier and earlier in the season.As I have said before,if you take the 31 oct 08' - 8 aug 09' period(approx 9 months) you will see that Nadal was sidelined for 4 and a half months(2 and half months last year missing TMC and DC final an another 2 month this year missing queens and wimbledon).Nadal's knees aren't 18 anymore so to speak.He recovery is slower than it used to be and his injuries are getting more frequent.

That's why I think he will try to pace himself from now on and I fear we have seen the last of "retrieve all" Nadal.I watched his first 2 matches and I have seen a total of 2-3 "nadal points" so to speak,reaching seemingly impossible balls and making them winners.Nadal's focus will have to be on his serve,keeping point shorter and working that BH,which has sucked this season,with the exception of AO and the mini HC season(miami,IW).

settolove
08-14-2009, 12:29 PM
I see Nadal is playing doubles in Cincy with the Joker.
http://www.downthelinetennis.com/2009/08/get-your-drool-ready-rafa-nole-to-play.html

feetofclay
08-14-2009, 12:42 PM
There is no crippling injury.

On what basis do you make this statement?

T. H. Park
08-14-2009, 01:35 PM
Why doesn't anybody consider the fact that his knees might have gotten worse?

I never said it was _not_ getting worse. As a matter of fact, it is going to get worse and not better. His style of tennis just does not allow him to sustain a long tennis career at the very top. Long as in, like Agassi, for example. Albeit Agassi, is, one of a kind and an unusual case.

What is for sure is that you don't just bring out the knee card when you lose at your favorite tournament (RG 09) and blame it on that when the opponent just played too good that day. That's what I am not too impressed about. Read his interviews before RG, during RG, and you'll see what I mean. Sure, his knees perhaps didn't help him this year too much but they were not the decisive factor in losing RG, for example. Why in the world would he otherwise be playing exhibition matches just before RG (which he lost BTW). Should he not be resting. Too much risk. He certainly does not need the practice nor money. Why in the world would he play singles AND doubles on a HC, when he is coming back from a "severe" knee injury? No matter how you view it, it just does not make sense. You do not want to unnecessarily burden your knees on HC with doubles games. Doubles matches are TOTALLY unnecessary to his "recovery." You would need to rest as much as possible by NOT playing. Unless of course, the knees, are not the "primary" problem. Yes?

T. H. Park
08-14-2009, 01:37 PM
That's why I think he will try to pace himself from now on ...

Pace himself by playing doubles? He is obviously not dumb, nor is his coach Toni. It took the team 4-5 years to figure out that he needs to pace himself? Is that the level of expertise and concern they have for Nadal's career? Playing doubles on hard courts? Just does not make sense. Sorry.

T. H. Park
08-14-2009, 02:42 PM
On what basis do you make this statement?

Please see below what Nadal said during various states in interviews at RG 09. Before being defeated and right after being defeated. I was trying to dig up interviews from the Madrid finals 09 where he said Roland Garros will be completely different (I cannot find it).

Nowhere in the entire interview is there even a mention of his knees, health, tiredness, or anything else. He was repeatedly asked. He said that nothing was wrong. Soderling outplayed him and he hit a wall (as Cahill said). He realized that. After the fact, his "excuse" is to blame it (solely?) on the knees. How can this be? You enter RG 09 feeling fine to compete. You feel fine until you lose. You lose and you still feel fine. After a few days, after some introspection, your knees suddenly hurt (afterwards!) and you blame it on the knees? How does that make sense? Does it to you? Please read the interviews below. He said those things, not I. That is what I base my conclusion.

On top of that he is playing doubles in many tournaments, including Montreal 2009 where he is supposed to be "below 100%." Why on earth would you risk your knees playing on HC, in doubles events, when they mean nothing to your ranking. But more importantly, can cause further damage to your knees, and can actually put your chances at playing at USO at risk - IF it were about the knees. They clearly are not - why? Because he is playing doubles and yet complains that the scheduling is too much. How about not playing doubles for starters? That's what I would do. It's not that difficult a situation to see.

Interview after losing RG 09 to Soderling:
Q. Do you think you maybe played too many tournaments lately? How are you going to prepare for Wimbledon?

RAFAEL NADAL: Yeah, when you lose, always everybody starts to analyze if I play too much. If I'm tired. The true, I won four years in a row playing the same. That's the true. This year I play the same and I lost. What happen? I lost. That's it.

Q. You looked tired. Do you feel exhausted? Do you feel tired physically and mentally?

RAFAEL NADAL: No.

Q. You look a bit tired.

RAFAEL NADAL: No, no, I feel okay.

Q. You were so enormously strong last year in Paris. If you compare yourself, your level today and the last years, are you mentally not that strong as in the last years, or physically? What's the difference?

RAFAEL NADAL: You know, guys, I lost. That's what I can say. I lost. I didn't play my best tennis today. I have to analyze why I lost today, but I think that the things are more simple than if I am less strong than before, if I am less prepared mentally than before...

No, I think I was ready for everything. If I wasn't ready here, I don't know when I gonna be ready after winning a lot of tournaments and being my best at start ofthe season, no?


Q. Two questions: Apparently younever felt comfortable during that match. How did you accept to walk in this room immediately after the match?

RAFAEL NADAL: Well, you don't think about this, youknow. I'm not saying this because ofyour question, but with ‑‑ I've stopped playing in altitude two weeks ago,so this is what ‑‑ I need to face the fact I didn't play well thisweek. When I practiced this morning I felt good, no? I felt very good, but it wasn't the case during the match.

Q. Wasit the wonderful game level of Soderling on this surface, or because you wereon a bad day or any other phenomenon, like you played in Barcelonathen in Madrid? Maybe you played too many tournaments.

RAFAEL NADAL: Stop it. Stop it. Had I played my best level against Soderling, maybe the results would have been different. But he played a very good level of tennis and I didn't play well, so the results are what they are.

More interviews from RG 09:
Q. Fitness‑wise, do you feel you were sharper in this match than in thefirst round?

RAFAEL NADAL: (Through translation.) Yes. I feel well, no? I felt well in the first match, too. I think I played a little bit better today than the first day, so that's positive thing.

RAFAEL NADAL: No, last year I didn't play that well during the third round. But what is important is what has happened so far.

Each day I play better,and I think, you know, this is what it's all about. I have to improve daily. I'm happy, really. My backhand is good. To start with, I played good shots. My drive is better.

T. H. Park
08-14-2009, 02:49 PM
and will continue to get worse if he continues to play (singles and doubles I might add), while suffering an injury so severe, he pulled out of Wimbledon.

The again, perhaps his Doctor prescribed the perfect treatment to rehab him>>> play tennis on hard courts as much as you can.

I think the prescription was:
1.Play as much tennis on HC - not just singles but doubles too. That way, your knees will get better. Yes, especially play more doubles. The way to treat tendinitis is NOT through more rest, rather through more totally UNNECESSARY doubles tennis. confused:

Or could it be -
2.Play as much tennis as possible so that you get as much matches under your belt as it will likely NOT risk your knees (risk: playing at the USO at "100%" if there is such a thing as "100%")? Could it possibly be that the knees are not that bad after all? Have not been that bad?

Which makes more sense?

bolo
08-14-2009, 07:18 PM
Well it was a decent performance in his 1st tournament back. As expected wasn't all that sharp but improved over the 3 matches. Glad he played doubles as well, it was obvious he wasn't going that far in singles.

Looking forward to the Open now.

Vamos,

bolo
08-14-2009, 07:21 PM
This is exactly what I was saying when people kept going on and on about with "it's the same condition he had the past 4 years",choosing to ignore the fact that he has had tendinits problems earlier and earlier in the season.As I have said before,if you take the 31 oct 08' - 8 aug 09' period(approx 9 months) you will see that Nadal was sidelined for 4 and a half months(2 and half months last year missing TMC and DC final an another 2 month this year missing queens and wimbledon).Nadal's knees aren't 18 anymore so to speak.He recovery is slower than it used to be and his injuries are getting more frequent.

That's why I think he will try to pace himself from now on and I fear we have seen the last of "retrieve all" Nadal.I watched his first 2 matches and I have seen a total of 2-3 "nadal points" so to speak,reaching seemingly impossible balls and making them winners.Nadal's focus will have to be on his serve,keeping point shorter and working that BH,which has sucked this season,with the exception of AO and the mini HC season(miami,IW).


Maybe. He's already made some improvements and his early round matches on hard courts are shorter than they used to be. It's not obvious they can get much shorter without a dip in W%. I think his best bet is to simply cut out some tournaments and take some fines if he has to.

rafan
08-14-2009, 07:22 PM
New guy on the block? You are kidding, right? He has been no. 2 for like 4 years (?) and no.1 ... not new kid anymore. Some people get to their prime early, while some later. There is no crippling injury. That's what Toni and Nadal want you to think. It's more in his head that has the crippling injury not his knees. You are right though, no tearful dramas like Federer. Just the knee, not 100%, tired excuse card.

I take it you have locker room access at all the big touranments!

rafan
08-14-2009, 07:27 PM
Please see below what Nadal said during various states in interviews at RG 09. Before being defeated and right after being defeated. I was trying to dig up interviews from the Madrid finals 09 where he said Roland Garros will be completely different (I cannot find it).

Nowhere in the entire interview is there even a mention of his knees, health, tiredness, or anything else. He was repeatedly asked. He said that nothing was wrong. Soderling outplayed him and he hit a wall (as Cahill said). He realized that. After the fact, his "excuse" is to blame it (solely?) on the knees. How can this be? You enter RG 09 feeling fine to compete. You feel fine until you lose. You lose and you still feel fine. After a few days, after some introspection, your knees suddenly hurt (afterwards!) and you blame it on the knees? How does that make sense? Does it to you? Please read the interviews below. He said those things, not I. That is what I base my conclusion.

On top of that he is playing doubles in many tournaments, including Montreal 2009 where he is supposed to be "below 100%." Why on earth would you risk your knees playing on HC, in doubles events, when they mean nothing to your ranking. But more importantly, can cause further damage to your knees, and can actually put your chances at playing at USO at risk - IF it were about the knees. They clearly are not - why? Because he is playing doubles and yet complains that the scheduling is too much. How about not playing doubles for starters? That's what I would do. It's not that difficult a situation to see.

Interview after losing RG 09 to Soderling:
Q. Do you think you maybe played too many tournaments lately? How are you going to prepare for Wimbledon?

RAFAEL NADAL: Yeah, when you lose, always everybody starts to analyze if I play too much. If I'm tired. The true, I won four years in a row playing the same. That's the true. This year I play the same and I lost. What happen? I lost. That's it.

Q. You looked tired. Do you feel exhausted? Do you feel tired physically and mentally?

RAFAEL NADAL: No.

Q. You look a bit tired.

RAFAEL NADAL: No, no, I feel okay.

Q. You were so enormously strong last year in Paris. If you compare yourself, your level today and the last years, are you mentally not that strong as in the last years, or physically? What's the difference?

RAFAEL NADAL: You know, guys, I lost. That's what I can say. I lost. I didn't play my best tennis today. I have to analyze why I lost today, but I think that the things are more simple than if I am less strong than before, if I am less prepared mentally than before...

No, I think I was ready for everything. If I wasn't ready here, I don't know when I gonna be ready after winning a lot of tournaments and being my best at start ofthe season, no?


Q. Two questions: Apparently younever felt comfortable during that match. How did you accept to walk in this room immediately after the match?

RAFAEL NADAL: Well, you don't think about this, youknow. I'm not saying this because ofyour question, but with ‑‑ I've stopped playing in altitude two weeks ago,so this is what ‑‑ I need to face the fact I didn't play well thisweek. When I practiced this morning I felt good, no? I felt very good, but it wasn't the case during the match.

Q. Wasit the wonderful game level of Soderling on this surface, or because you wereon a bad day or any other phenomenon, like you played in Barcelonathen in Madrid? Maybe you played too many tournaments.

RAFAEL NADAL: Stop it. Stop it. Had I played my best level against Soderling, maybe the results would have been different. But he played a very good level of tennis and I didn't play well, so the results are what they are.

More interviews from RG 09:
Q. Fitness‑wise, do you feel you were sharper in this match than in thefirst round?

RAFAEL NADAL: (Through translation.) Yes. I feel well, no? I felt well in the first match, too. I think I played a little bit better today than the first day, so that's positive thing.

RAFAEL NADAL: No, last year I didn't play that well during the third round. But what is important is what has happened so far.

Each day I play better,and I think, you know, this is what it's all about. I have to improve daily. I'm happy, really. My backhand is good. To start with, I played good shots. My drive is better.

Why are you so obsessed with Nadal ? I mean so many people accept his injury. No big deal. You have to write a thesis on him

T. H. Park
08-15-2009, 08:41 AM
Why are you so obsessed with Nadal ? I mean so many people accept his injury. No big deal. You have to write a thesis on him

I am obsessed? Hardly. Look at your username. I was asked by one of the posters why I assert certain my opinion regarding his injury. I responded in kind. It's called thoughtfulness and reading what people say in interviews and what professionals say. I don't make ridiculous assertions w/o thoughtful consideration. Obviously I am oftentimes wrong.

Now, would you like to get back to the topic at hand and respond to what Nadal said in the interviews that I quoted, and why he was totally fine before, during, and right after RG 09. And why he was not "fine" after a few days preceding his unexpected loss ?

Many people accept his injury, therefore I should as well. Many people are racists, many people are antisemitic, many people don't think, and therefore I should as well? How can it be that suddenly, after some deliberation, your knees are the source of the problems when he said he was totally fine? Can you explain this? I certainly cannot - my assertion thus is that it's more in his head than his knees. Makes sense?

You have to write a thesis on him If you say so.

carlos djackal
08-15-2009, 08:46 AM
he is clearly not his old self to me against JMDP, however, I give Juan all the credit for holding his own......Nadal is a bit slower than he is used to IMO, anyway he is still in a comeback trail.....there is no other way but up injury forbid...

bolo
08-15-2009, 10:03 AM
http://www.rogerscup.com/men/english/interview/2009/R.Nadal_08.14.09.doc

Good interview. Just not ready mentally or physically to go toe to toe with someone like JMDP for a whole match but could do it for a set.

In the long run imo nadal shouldn't concern himself with JMDP except on fast hard courts. JMDP lets him play off the ground and imo nadal can take him there on all surfaces except the fast hard courts.

drakulie
08-15-2009, 01:48 PM
http://www.rogerscup.com/men/english/interview/2009/R.Nadal_08.14.09.doc

Good interview. Just not ready mentally or physically to go toe to toe with someone like JMDP for a whole match but could do it for a set.

In the long run imo nadal shouldn't concern himself with JMDP except on fast hard courts. JMDP lets him play off the ground and imo nadal can take him there on all surfaces except the fast hard courts.


Del Potro beat Nadal earlier this year on one of the slowest hard courts around (Miami). The again,,,,,,,, I'm quite certain Nadal had a "serious knee injury" during this match too, right? :roll:

All-rounder
08-15-2009, 01:55 PM
http://www.rogerscup.com/men/english/interview/2009/R.Nadal_08.14.09.doc

Good interview. Just not ready mentally or physically to go toe to toe with someone like JMDP for a whole match but could do it for a set.

In the long run imo nadal shouldn't concern himself with JMDP except on fast hard courts. JMDP lets him play off the ground and imo nadal can take him there on all surfaces except the fast hard courts.
Nadal lost to del potro at miami which is slow hardcourts.

T. H. Park
08-15-2009, 03:58 PM
he is clearly not his old self to me against JMDP, however, I give Juan all the credit for holding his own......Nadal is a bit slower than he is used to IMO, anyway he is still in a comeback trail.....there is no other way but up injury forbid...

Del Potro is not a very good match-up for Nadal. On clay, Nadal definitely has the upper hand. However, DP moves pretty well for a big guy and the top spin shots don't bother him at all (neither does it bother Soderling). Hence, the loss was not that surprising - but still an upset IMO.

Obviously Nadal is not at the top of his game for whatever reason, but he basically choked in the first set and everything after that went downhill (Nadal was leading 5-2 in the tiebreak I believe). It's as I said, probably largely mental. Had Nadal won the 1st set, things would have been much more interesting.

bolo
08-15-2009, 05:57 PM
Nadal lost to del potro at miami which is slow hardcourts.

just one match.

bolo
08-15-2009, 06:00 PM
Del Potro beat Nadal earlier this year on one of the slowest hard courts around (Miami). The again,,,,,,,, I'm quite certain Nadal had a "serious knee injury" during this match too, right? :roll:

Just one match. Result not all that interesting in the grand scheme off things.

drakulie
08-15-2009, 08:11 PM
Just one match. Result not all that interesting in the grand scheme off things.

make it two wins in one year on hard courts. Additionally, contrary to what you said earlier, Del Potro beat him on one of the slowest hard courts around.

bolo
08-15-2009, 11:47 PM
make it two wins in one year on hard courts. Additionally, contrary to what you said earlier, Del Potro beat him on one of the slowest hard courts around.

Right now I put miami at the same level as fed's win versus nadal at hamburg 07. So not all that interesting.

mandy01
08-15-2009, 11:51 PM
Right now I put miami at the same level as fed's win versus nadal at hamburg 07. So not all that interesting.
Of course..whenever someone beats Nadal it never has credibility or they arent 'important' in the 'grand scheme of things' because God Nadal can never have legit losses .

Cesc Fabregas
08-16-2009, 12:00 AM
Right now I put miami at the same level as fed's win versus nadal at hamburg 07. So not all that interesting.

Im with you here bolo. Del Potro only just beat an out of sorts Nadal in a 3rd set tiebreak, means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

bolo
08-16-2009, 12:06 AM
Of course..whenever someone beats Nadal it never has credibility or they arent 'important' in the 'grand scheme of things' because God Nadal can never have legit losses .

You shouldn't read too much into any one match. Did fed/nadal hamburg 07 change the relationship between nadal and federer on clay? No it did not, after that federer lost in the FO final, MC, Hamburg, FO 08; then won in madrid. I would interpret the nadal/jmdp miami match in a similar fashion. But hey jmdp is getting better all the time maybe he will surpass nadal on the slow hard courts too but imo he will not because nadal can beat him off the ground on the slower surfaces.

bolo
08-16-2009, 12:12 AM
Im with you here bolo. Del Potro only just beat an out of sorts Nadal in a 3rd set tiebreak, means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

He's going to put serves back in play on the slow surfaces and then he will beat jmdp off the ground. It would be great to see these two faceoff at the AO next year.

mandy01
08-16-2009, 12:18 AM
You shouldn't read too much into any one match. Did fed/nadal hamburg 07 change the relationship between nadal and federer on clay? No it did not, after that federer lost in the FO final, MC, Hamburg, FO 08; then won in madrid. I would interpret the nadal/jmdp miami match in a similar fashion. But hey jmdp is getting better all the time maybe he will surpass nadal on the slow hard courts too but imo he will not because nadal can beat him off the ground on the slower surfaces.

It was the end of a streak and quite a ridiculous one.Quite significant and it is probably the one that gave Roger the nerves to hold on in that fifth set at Wimbledon.Remember,that while the win did not change the H2H between the two ,Roger still had more wins over Nadal the whole year and actually got the H2H quite close by 2008.So yes,it was pretty significant if you ask me.
As for Del Po-If it does something,it gives the guy confidence.He's young,willing to improve ( infact he's already improved so much) .And confidence can do wonders to a player.
Nadal didnt get confidence against Fed at Wimbledon just because of his RG wins.He got them because he was winning even these small events.The fact that he knew he could beat Fed consistently ,be it on his best surface inspired him to improve on grass and hold on even in the tough moments ( remember he had quite a battle during Wimbledon 07 before the finals).He sort of carried the confidence of the clay season into the grass season.
And I do believe he would've played Wimbledon had he somehow managed to pull off a victory in Paris this year.

bolo
08-16-2009, 12:59 AM
It was the end of a streak and quite a ridiculous one.Quite significant and it is probably the one that gave Roger the nerves to hold on in that fifth set at Wimbledon.Remember,that while the win did not change the H2H between the two ,Roger still had more wins over Nadal the whole year and actually got the H2H quite close by 2008.So yes,it was pretty significant if you ask me.
As for Del Po-If it does something,it gives the guy confidence.He's young,willing to improve ( infact he's already improved so much) .And confidence can do wonders to a player.
Nadal didnt get confidence against Fed at Wimbledon just because of his RG wins.He got them because he was winning even these small events.The fact that he knew he could beat Fed consistently ,be it on his best surface inspired him to improve on grass and hold on even in the tough moments ( remember he had quite a battle during Wimbledon 07 before the finals).He sort of carried the confidence of the clay season into the grass season.
And I do believe he would've played Wimbledon had he somehow managed to pull off a victory in Paris this year.

The question was what did the hamburg win mean for federer nadal/federer ON CLAY. Just like the question is what does the miami win mean for nadal/jmdp on slow hard courts. Yes I am sure the miami win gave jmdp a bit more confidence but imo it's just one win and their skills are such that in the long run nadal can beat him on slow hard courts.

jamesblakefan#1
08-16-2009, 01:22 AM
The question was what did the hamburg win mean for federer nadal/federer ON CLAY. Just like the question is what does the miami win mean for nadal/jmdp on slow hard courts. Yes I am sure the miami win gave jmdp a bit more confidence but imo it's just one win and their skills are such that in the long run nadal can beat him on slow hard courts.

What do you mean "in the long run"? At a slam? OK, I won't doubt that Nadal would have the advantage at a slam. But it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to seem. You seem to be ignoring the progress that JMDP has made since that win over Nadal in Miami. He's vaulted into a solid position in the top 6 now, has wins over Roddick and beat Nadal again on HC, and took Federer to 5 tough sets at the French.

You also ignore the fact that JMDP is the type of player who Rafa hates to play against - a tall guy who can crush the ball and isn't affected by Nadal's topspin shots as much. This will make any match Nadal plays against DelPotro a tough one.

JMDP is the fastest rising player in the game right now, and continuing to write off his wins over Nadal as "flukes" and "meaningless" could leave Nadal fans w/ egg on their face the same way Fed fans were left after Djokovic's win at AO 08.

I'm not saying that JMDP is a better HC player than Nadal. But right now? You can't just write it off and say he has no chance against Nadal, when he's won the past 2 meetings and has steadily improved the past 6 months. Every time I see JMDP, I'm more and more impressed and more of a believer he can do some special things if he keeps it up. So don't write him off so quickly.

bolo
08-16-2009, 01:42 AM
What do you mean "in the long run"? At a slam? OK, I won't doubt that Nadal would have the advantage at a slam. But it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to seem. You seem to be ignoring the progress that JMDP has made since that win over Nadal in Miami. He's vaulted into a solid position in the top 6 now, has wins over Roddick and beat Nadal again on HC, and took Federer to 5 tough sets at the French.

You also ignore the fact that JMDP is the type of player who Rafa hates to play against - a tall guy who can crush the ball and isn't affected by Nadal's topspin shots as much. This will make any match Nadal plays against DelPotro a tough one.

JMDP is the fastest rising player in the game right now, and continuing to write off his wins over Nadal as "flukes" and "meaningless" could leave Nadal fans w/ egg on their face the same way Fed fans were left after Djokovic's win at AO 08.

I'm not saying that JMDP is a better HC player than Nadal. But right now? You can't just write it off and say he has no chance against Nadal, when he's won the past 2 meetings and has steadily improved the past 6 months. Every time I see JMDP, I'm more and more impressed and more of a believer he can do some special things if he keeps it up. So don't write him off so quickly.

By long run I mean once we get a decent sized sample of matches between the two. I am not ignoring anything, I am aware of all the things you mentioned. I rate jmdp very highly on the fast courts and will probably rank him ahead of nadal in terms of winning the U.S. open.

But from watching jmdp a few times imo nadal has the tools to beat him on the slow hard courts. Also jmdp isn't totally like the guys who used to bother nadal. Yes he has the great 2 handed backhand to handle the nadal forehand. But he gives nadal quite a bit of time to play and imo that plays in nadal's favor; while jmdp is good scrambler for his size I don't think it will be good enough against nadal on the slow hard courts.

rafan
08-16-2009, 05:25 AM
I am obsessed? Hardly. Look at your username. I was asked by one of the posters why I assert certain my opinion regarding his injury. I responded in kind. It's called thoughtfulness and reading what people say in interviews and what professionals say. I don't make ridiculous assertions w/o thoughtful consideration. Obviously I am oftentimes wrong.

Now, would you like to get back to the topic at hand and respond to what Nadal said in the interviews that I quoted, and why he was totally fine before, during, and right after RG 09. And why he was not "fine" after a few days preceding his unexpected loss ?

Many people accept his injury, therefore I should as well. Many people are racists, many people are antisemitic, many people don't think, and therefore I should as well? How can it be that suddenly, after some deliberation, your knees are the source of the problems when he said he was totally fine? Can you explain this? I certainly cannot - my assertion thus is that it's more in his head than his knees. Makes sense?

If you say so.

Nadal does not like to compalain constantly about his injury. Also it isn't fair to his opponent if he makes the excuce repeatedly that its "his knees". I remember when Andy Murray beat him once he was asked if there was a problem with how he felt physically, from the interviewer, and he replied there was nothing wrong and that Murray simply played better than him. For all we know he could well have been in pain, had a virus or anything imaginable. How many times has Federer admited that an opponent was superior to him when he has lost to someone?

JeMar
08-16-2009, 05:37 AM
Rafa has more than enough people making excuses for him, though. Federer just skips the middleman.

mandy01
08-16-2009, 05:38 AM
Nadal does not like to compalain constantly about his injury. Also it isn't fair to his opponent if he makes the excuce repeatedly that its "his knees". I remember when Andy Murray beat him once he was asked if there was a problem with how he felt physically, from the interviewer, and he replied there was nothing wrong and that Murray simply played better than him. For all we know he could well have been in pain, had a virus or anything imaginable. How many times has Federer admited that an opponent was superior to him when he has lost to someone?
Many times.Infact most of the times-and no dont give me sentences of parts of interviews taken out of context.I've read pretty much all of them so I know.
And of course Nadal did not complain constantly about his knee injuries-Why would he when he won 5 tournaments with the so called injury?
After he lost at RG however............
So dont talk about Fed.
As for the Rotterdam loss-I dont think it quite meant a great deal to him.

mandy01
08-16-2009, 05:40 AM
Rafa has more than enough people making excuses for him, though. Federer just skips the middleman.True.He's got no Toni Nadal :mrgreen:

mandy01
08-16-2009, 05:46 AM
The question was what did the hamburg win mean for federer nadal/federer ON CLAY. Just like the question is what does the miami win mean for nadal/jmdp on slow hard courts. Yes I am sure the miami win gave jmdp a bit more confidence but imo it's just one win and their skills are such that in the long run nadal can beat him on slow hard courts.
You did not specify that when you said "In the grand scheme of things" .Looks like you adjusted your view a little bit.Anyway to answer your question-It solidified Roger's belief that although Nadal was hard to deal with ,he had the game to win the FO.And he won it "in the grand scheme of things" regardless of whether Nadal was there or not.Its the belief that he had the game that carried him through .
As for JMDP-Its not a question of just his match-up against Nadal.These victories inspire you as a player and they can take you a long way.He's improved greatly as a player -and I hope he continues to play inspired tennis and dosent get hindered by too many injuries.

T. H. Park
08-16-2009, 06:50 AM
Nadal does not like to compalain constantly about his injury. Also it isn't fair to his opponent if he makes the excuce repeatedly that its "his knees". I remember when Andy Murray beat him once he was asked if there was a problem with how he felt physically, from the interviewer, and he replied there was nothing wrong and that Murray simply played better than him. For all we know he could well have been in pain, had a virus or anything imaginable. How many times has Federer admited that an opponent was superior to him when he has lost to someone?

Lame way of reasoning your logic. There is no logic actually as there is no end to a discussion if you approach it your way. His knees were fine, according to him, I did not assert such a thing, he did at the interviews before, during, and right after RG 09. Either he "lies" or his knees were fine. If he lied, which you seem to insinuate (maybe you know this somehow) then he has no credibility. So, yes, I still think his knees were not the problem, it was more mental than anything.

I am not sure what Federer has to do with this discussion. This is about Nadal, is it not?

T. H. Park
08-16-2009, 06:57 AM
As for JMDP-Its not a question of just his match-up against Nadal.These victories inspire you as a player and they can take you a long way.

That is what I have been trying to say as well. Any win against the top players by lower ranked players will give that player more confidence. When things get tight, they (both) will remember certain matches and points. Same goes for Federer's recent loss to Tsonga. Tsonga will remember this and so will Federer, if and when they meet and things get tight. If they get that tight that is. Federer was pretty dumb in letting that one slip at 5-1. That should've been his for the taking. You do not want to give others confidence, no matter what. And no-one "wants" to lose in any match including Federer and Nadal or any professional tennis player.

rafan
08-16-2009, 07:27 AM
Many times.Infact most of the times-and no dont give me sentences of parts of interviews taken out of context.I've read pretty much all of them so I know.
And of course Nadal did not complain constantly about his knee injuries-Why would he when he won 5 tournaments with the so called injury?
After he lost at RG however............
So dont talk about Fed.
As for the Rotterdam loss-I dont think it quite meant a great deal to him.

We have known for ages that Nadal has had problems with his knees Why has he been wearing those bands? Yes it was a shock that he started losing before RG and at the RG and that rings bells straight away. The same way when any other player who has won consistantly on a surface that is second nature to him suddenly starts to lose. It makes complete sense that one day he would be facing a problem - so dont call his problem "so called". It is nothing new for people to work through a pain barrier to achieve what they want only to pay for it later unfortuantely

rafan
08-16-2009, 07:36 AM
Lame way of reasoning your logic. There is no logic actually as there is no end to a discussion if you approach it your way. His knees were fine, according to him, I did not assert such a thing, he did at the interviews before, during, and right after RG 09. Either he "lies" or his knees were fine. If he lied, which you seem to insinuate (maybe you know this somehow) then he has no credibility. So, yes, I still think his knees were not the problem, it was more mental than anything.

I am not sure what Federer has to do with this discussion. This is about Nadal, is it not?

The fact that Nadal has had a "knee problem " is known to people I know who watch tennis rarely His knee problem ,for some time, has become a part of his legend almost- so no I didn't have to lie especially if his problem is something that has evolved over time - therefore he must have been feeling pain on and off .

T. H. Park
08-16-2009, 08:13 AM
The fact that Nadal has had a "knee problem " is known to people I know who watch tennis rarely His knee problem ,for some time, has become a part of his legend almost- so no I didn't have to lie especially if his problem is something that has evolved over time - therefore he must have been feeling pain on and off .

I am glad you posted the above.

1.His knee problems are legendary: have been there for a long time
Yet, we won a bunch of GSs and hundreds of matches and set the record on consecutive wins on clay.

2.Knee problem does not mean knee injury
There was no "injury." He has knee problems and has had them for the last few years. It's just part of his tennis. It will NEVER get to 100% as it has never been 100% - maybe it was 100% when he was 16?. See point 1. that you made. It has NEVER been 100%, which you also admit.

3.I am not 100%, no.
Means nothing. According to you, and we all know this, his knees have never been 100%. Thus, he was never 100% before and still got unbelievable results. Thus, his knees cannot be blamed on the poor results and for positive results. You cannot have it both ways.

Conclusion, it is mental more than physical. Having said that his body's break-down is going to catch up with him sooner or later. It will probably be sooner than later.

mandy01
08-16-2009, 08:45 AM
We have known for ages that Nadal has had problems with his knees Why has he been wearing those bands? Yes it was a shock that he started losing before RG and at the RG and that rings bells straight away. The same way when any other player who has won consistantly on a surface that is second nature to him suddenly starts to lose. It makes complete sense that one day he would be facing a problem - so dont call his problem "so called". It is nothing new for people to work through a pain barrier to achieve what they want only to pay for it later unfortuantely
One sec-He didnt lose a single match before losing to Fed and if he was so tired he should've skipped a minor event like Barcelona instead of playing 3 consecutive weeks.In short,he aggravated whatever troubles he had.
And no,dont tell me how close Barcelona is to him.Basel is extremely close to Fed being his hometown and he's still missed it when he felt he wasnt fit enough.He came back and won it.
Besides,your point was about Fed talking about his problems and Nadal not doing so.I simply pointed out to you that Nadal does talk a lot about them when he loses tournaments that probably matter more to him.
And no,dont tell me he plays a minor event with the equal dedication of a masters event or a slam.He might want to win but they simply dont compare to slams or masters .

rafan
08-16-2009, 08:53 AM
One sec-He didnt lose a single match before losing to Fed and if he was so tired he should've skipped a minor event like Barcelona instead of playing 3 consecutive weeks.In short,he aggravated whatever troubles he had.
And no,dont tell me how close Barcelona is to him.Basel is extremely close to Fed being his hometown and he's still missed it when he felt he wasnt fit enough.He came back and won it.
Besides,your point was about Fed talking about his problems and Nadal not doing so.I simply pointed out to you that Nadal does talk a lot about them when he loses tournaments that probably matter more to him.
And no,dont tell me he plays a minor event with the equal dedication of a masters event or a slam.He might want to win but they simply dont compare to slams or masters .

Thanks for your reply. If I may change the subject therefore, how would you feel if Murray becomes number one without having to win a slam. He said in the papers this morning he thinks he deserves to be number two.

mandy01
08-16-2009, 09:02 AM
Thanks for your reply. If I may change the subject therefore, how would you feel if Murray becomes number one without having to win a slam. He said in the papers this morning he thinks he deserves to be number two.
I would prefer him to win a slam.As simple as that.Its not like I'm ecstatic Murray got to No.2 .Yes,he stayed the course and Nadal couldnt but I somehow believe Nadal will be back.Nadal usually comes back strong after a layoff at slams even if he dosent do too well at the events before ( look at this year's AO) .

T. H. Park
08-16-2009, 01:26 PM
Thanks for your reply. If I may change the subject therefore, how would you feel if Murray becomes number one without having to win a slam. He said in the papers this morning he thinks he deserves to be number two.

Of course he deserves to be no.2 because he has the points. End of story. If he has the points to be no.1. then that's what he deserves. There is no cheating, no system that is different for any player. They all play by the same rules and adhere to the current system in place. Nadal is no.3. because he deserves to be no.3 etc. He deserved to be no.1 recently because he was no.1. Does not matter if you have 1 GS or 0 GS. You could win one GS the whole year drop out in the early rounds of every other tourney. Does not make your "real" rankings any better than the person who has more titles AND has higher ranking according to the current system in place.