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View Full Version : Which US Open tradition is worse, Super Saturday or final set tiebreak?


JennyS
08-11-2009, 05:10 PM
Although I strongly prefer seeing a player win by two games, I have to go with Super Saturday. Having the semifinals and finals on back to back days for TV ratings is crap. Although, an alternative would be to have the men's final on Monday Night. Why not? Either way, they're going up against football.


Plus, when you also factor in some of the men's first round matches being scheduled on WEDNESDAY, it makes it even worse!

NamRanger
08-11-2009, 05:16 PM
I like Super Saturday, although it has it's faults. Final set tiebreak is kind of cool too. It gives the USO a unique aspect to it. It's kind of like "sudden death".



If I HAVE to pick, I guess Super Saturday.

theroleoftheunderdog
08-11-2009, 05:19 PM
super saturday is great. its obviously the final set tiebreak.

JeMar
08-11-2009, 05:19 PM
I like Super Saturday, but I abhor the final set tiebreaker.

drwood
08-11-2009, 05:22 PM
Final set tiebreak is AWESOME -- it makes the US Open unique, along with the night matches. Super Saturday has long been overrated.

jamesblakefan#1
08-11-2009, 05:23 PM
If they HAVE to have the super Saturday, they should at least make the men's final a night match (an idea which I strongly support in general) to give guys more time to recover.

Between the two, it's Super Sat for me. It gives an unfair advantage to whoever is scheduled to go on first, as they have more time to recover after their match.

But yeah, Friday night SF's would be great, and a Sunday night final would be great as well. Too bad USTA allows CBS and the NFL schedule dictate what it does w/ the men's schedule. Women can have a final at night but no men's night final, it should be the other way around.

clayman2000
08-11-2009, 05:23 PM
Why does everyone love Super Saturday? All it does is tire each player out for the final. Why else do you think there hasnt been a 5 set final in over 10 years?

フェデラー
08-11-2009, 05:26 PM
Why does everyone love Super Saturday? All it does is tire each player out for the final. Why else do you think there hasnt been a 5 set final in over 10 years?

Did you forget Fed vs. Agassi?

JeMar
08-11-2009, 05:31 PM
Did you forget Fed vs. Agassi?

Wasn't their final a four set match?

They played a five-setter at the U.S. Open, but that was in the quarter-finals (or R16) several years ago.

raiden031
08-11-2009, 05:33 PM
5th set play it out is just too much. I would say a good compromise is to only play it out in the finals, but the other rounds would be to have a tiebreak.

zagor
08-11-2009, 05:35 PM
Super Saturday for me by far,5th set tiebreak isn't that bad really.

フェデラー
08-11-2009, 05:37 PM
Wasn't their final a four set match?

They played a five-setter at the U.S. Open, but that was in the quarter-finals (or R16) several years ago.

whoops i always thought that was a final haha

JennyS
08-11-2009, 05:42 PM
Here's a good argument for the end of Super Saturday: it's hurt Americans in the past: Sampras in 2000 and 2001 for example.

But how many times has the player with the tougher semi won the final? Roddick did in 2003, but Ferrero had played 4 days in a row so he was even more tired.

Meanwhile, both Fed and Nadal won a Slam this year after playing a 5 set semifinal. A day off certainly helped!

sanchino
08-11-2009, 05:51 PM
I like the final set tie-break.....if nothing else, it is unique to the US Open, although I wish ALL tournaments used a final set tie-break, especially the slams........so, I'd have to say Super Saturday is worse (although it doesn't matter to me now that the women aren't sandwiched in the middle of the two men's semi's)

sanchino
08-11-2009, 05:55 PM
Although I strongly prefer seeing a player win by two games, I have to go with Super Saturday. Having the semifinals and finals on back to back days for TV ratings is crap. Although, an alternative would be to have the men's final on Monday Night. Why not? Either way, they're going up against football.


Plus, when you also factor in some of the men's first round matches being scheduled on WEDNESDAY, it makes it even worse!

I wish Arthur Ashe's kids day was Saturday, and start the tournament on Sunday........THEN let the men's final be played in prime time Saturday night instead of the women.......their ratings would kill the women's when they weren't having to go up against NFL football

Oui, c'est moi.
08-11-2009, 05:57 PM
Out of these 2 evils i think super sat is the lesser evil. Providing men's final is an evening match.

drwood
08-11-2009, 05:59 PM
Here's a good argument for the end of Super Saturday: it's hurt Americans in the past: Sampras in 2000 and 2001 for example.

But how many times has the player with the tougher semi won the final? Roddick did in 2003, but Ferrero had played 4 days in a row so he was even more tired.

Meanwhile, both Fed and Nadal won a Slam this year after playing a 5 set semifinal. A day off certainly helped!

It evens out:
1980 = McEnroe plays 2nd SF -- 5th set tiebreak against Connors -- several hrs after Borgs SF match --- McEnroe won final
1984 = McEnroe plays 2nd match -- 5 setter against connors -- finished 6+ hrs after Lendl's SF and still thrashed him in the final
1990 = Sampras plays 2nd SF -- tough 4 setter against McEnroe -- several hrs after Agassi beat Becker -- still thrashed Agassi in final
1996 -- Sampras had tougher SF but still beat Chang who had smoked Agassi in their SF
1998 -- Rafter had 2nd SF -- tough 5-setter over Sampras -- several hrs after Philippousis handled Moya -- then Rafter handled Philippousis in the final

Players hurt by Super Saturday in the final:
2001 = Sampras (but wasn't in good physical condition anyways -- NO ONE benefitted more from night matches than Sampras; no way he beats Agassi in the heat) -- but he wouldn't have beaten Hewitt anyway -- won just 8 games.
2002 = Agassi (Sampras was 1st SF against non top-10 player; Agassi was 2nd and had to grind to beat defending champ Hewitt)
2005 = Federer (Agassi knew this which is why he asked to play Ginepri in the first SF); but he still beat Agassi in 4 sets
2008 = Murray (delayed second SF)

Its just another obstacle and its been the same way for decades -- its part of what makes the US Open unique. I do agree that the men's final should be a night match though.

The players playing the 2nd SF have an extra day rest before the SF compared with the players playing the 1st SF, so its not entirely unfair.

JennyS
08-11-2009, 06:06 PM
It evens out:
1980 = McEnroe plays 2nd SF -- 5th set tiebreak against Connors -- several hrs after Borgs SF match --- McEnroe won final
1984 = McEnroe plays 2nd match -- 5 setter against connors -- finished 6+ hrs after Lendl's SF and still thrashed him in the final
1990 = Sampras plays 2nd SF -- tough 4 setter against McEnroe -- several hrs after Agassi beat Becker -- still thrashed Agassi in final
1996 -- Sampras had tougher SF but still beat Chang who had smoked Agassi in their SF
1998 -- Rafter had 2nd SF -- tough 5-setter over Sampras -- several hrs after Philippousis handled Moya -- then Rafter handled Philippousis in the final

Players hurt by Super Saturday in the final:
2001 = Sampras (but wasn't in good physical condition anyways -- NO ONE benefitted more from night matches than Sampras; no way he beats Agassi in the heat) -- but he wouldn't have beaten Hewitt anyway -- won just 8 games.
2002 = Agassi (Sampras was 1st SF against non top-10 player; Agassi was 2nd and had to grind to beat defending champ Hewitt)
2005 = Federer (Agassi knew this which is why he asked to play Ginepri in the first SF); but he still beat Agassi in 4 sets
2008 = Murray (delayed second SF)

Its just another obstacle and its been the same way for decades -- its part of what makes the US Open unique. I do agree that the men's final should be a night match though.

The players playing the 2nd SF have an extra day rest before the SF compared with the players playing the 1st SF, so its not entirely unfair.

Cool stats, thanks!

theroleoftheunderdog
08-11-2009, 06:26 PM
its great at least one slam doesnt have a long wait time between the semis and final

OrangePower
08-11-2009, 06:45 PM
5th set TB should have no place in a slam. When 2 players are so close that they get to 6 all in the 5th, I want to see them play it out the old fashioned way. Make one of them break the other's serve.

drwood
08-11-2009, 06:47 PM
5th set TB should have no place in a slam. When 2 players are so close that they get to 6 all in the 5th, I want to see them play it out the old fashioned way. Make one of them break the other's serve.

That's an unfair advantage to the player serving first. A tiebreaker is much more equitable. Good that not all slams have the same 5th set format.

backhand winner
08-11-2009, 06:47 PM
Super Saturday is unfair to the player with an extended match and having to play the next day. It hurt Agassi against Sampras in 1995. I think a final set tiebreaker is just fine.

OrangePower
08-11-2009, 07:13 PM
That's an unfair advantage to the player serving first. A tiebreaker is much more equitable. Good that not all slams have the same 5th set format.

Hmm never thought about that... are there stats to prove that there's an advantage to the player serving first, or are you speculating?

sanchino
08-11-2009, 07:51 PM
5th set TB should have no place in a slam. When 2 players are so close that they get to 6 all in the 5th, I want to see them play it out the old fashioned way. Make one of them break the other's serve.

I respectfully disagree......after five sets of play, it is time for what is going to happen, HAPPEN!!......There is nothing more thrilling in all of sport than having to perform when it is all on the line.....if there had been a tie-break at the cow pasture (Wimbledon) Roddick would probably have won......that is NOT my reason for liking it.....I almost turned the television off late in the fifth because it was becoming boring!

bluetrain4
08-11-2009, 08:05 PM
Love final set tiebreak. I wouldn't want to see it consistently across all Slams and tournaments, but it is unique and I like that it makes the USO different.

I also like Super Saturday, but understand that it is tiring for the players and risky for the tournament.

rfprse
08-11-2009, 10:30 PM
"Super"(not) Saturday is worse. Even though the final set tiebreak is quite close to it. Both of them should go, imho.

BTURNER
08-11-2009, 10:41 PM
I like them both.

sanchino
08-11-2009, 10:46 PM
Let the ****s just play 3 tie-breaks, and get their crap over with!

DunlopDood
08-11-2009, 10:49 PM
I remember the final set tie break saved pete sampras against Alex Corretja in 1996, but I must say I don't like it. Besides most matches that go the distance in the 5th are usually over at 9-7 or 10-8 so what is the point of a 5th set tie break?

egn
08-11-2009, 10:54 PM
5 set tiebreak really ruins it =[. Whats the point then? Karlovic could win the damn thing if he got really hot.

Benefactor
08-11-2009, 10:56 PM
I respectfully disagree......after five sets of play, it is time for what is going to happen, HAPPEN!!......There is nothing more thrilling in all of sport than having to perform when it is all on the line.....if there had been a tie-break at the cow pasture (Wimbledon) Roddick would probably have won......that is NOT my reason for liking it.....I almost turned the television off late in the fifth because it was becoming boring!

How the hell do you figure that? Federer won both of the tie breaks earlier in the match.

OrangePower
08-11-2009, 11:11 PM
I respectfully disagree......after five sets of play, it is time for what is going to happen, HAPPEN!!......There is nothing more thrilling in all of sport than having to perform when it is all on the line.....if there had been a tie-break at the cow pasture (Wimbledon) Roddick would probably have won......that is NOT my reason for liking it.....I almost turned the television off late in the fifth because it was becoming boring!

Granted a 5th set tiebreak for all the marbles is thrilling...

But I think playing it out is even more thrilling. For example the drama of the last two Wimby finals. Two of the most dramatic matches ever. Sorry you found it boring but I think you're in the minority on that one.

obsessedtennisfandisorder
08-12-2009, 01:30 AM
Super saturday is total crap and i can't
undertsand people actually like it from a
tennis perspective.

Most US open finals are crap because of supersaturday.

just play both semis on friday...what is the problem with the usta?....are they
so totally in love with tired players playing finals that leads to low quality.

too many to mention here:

2005 final : andre tired
2003 final: ferrero screwed
2001 final; all hewitt had to do was turn up.

In my opinion it's kind of pure luck they havent had too many situations like this years AO..where fed had easy and rafa had a grueller....but it will happen some year soon..then we'll see what poeple say
bout SuperSaturday

Ratsoup
08-12-2009, 02:02 AM
What's super saturday? :s

Fedfan1234
08-12-2009, 02:07 AM
Both are bad, but final set tiebreak is the worst. The final set tiebreak is the only reason for me to dislike the US open. Just think that the Wimbledon final this year would have ended in a tiebreak. We would have missed out on about 17 games worth of tennis. Who thinks this was not an incredible display of determination and skill? You don't get this with a tiebreak.
I think a final set tiebreak is a rather pityfull way to end such a close match. A portion of the win would be because of luck, whereas a difference of 2 games also gives you an element of fatigue as a decisive factor. A player would have to try to conserve energy as much as possible.

dragonfire
08-12-2009, 02:21 AM
what is wrong with the 5th set TB - it shows mental strength and guts

Fedfan1234
08-12-2009, 02:37 AM
what is wrong with the 5th set TB - it shows mental strength and guts
Because fatigue is eliminated as a decisive factor. And you can win a tiebreak with a few lucky points, thus a ball hitting the net and just falling over. With a 2 game difference you would have to break you're opponent and play at least 2 good points on the opponents serve or the opponent would have make the mistakes for you. Both cases you were the best and not the most lucky.

Deuce
08-12-2009, 02:40 AM
Firstly, there has been only ONE 'Super Saturday' - and that was in 1984.
That is when the phrase 'Super Saturday' was coined. All other Saturdays at the U.S. Open since then have merely used the name.
The only true one is the original. And it was a great day of tennis.

The worst thing about the U.S. Open for me is Arthur Ashe Kids Day.
What could have been a wonderful idea is in actuality little more than a glorified commercial for various products, masquerading as being "for the kids".
It is only "for the kids" in that the shameless marketing is aimed directly at the kids.

That's an unfair advantage to the player serving first. A tiebreaker is much more equitable. Good that not all slams have the same 5th set format.
An "unfair advantage"?!!? Ridiculous.
If serving first were really an "unfair advantage", don't you think that players winning the coin toss would choose to serve first 100% of the time?
Jeez... you can also consider factors like wind and sun - which may very well make it a decided DISadvantage to serve from one side of the court.
An "unfair advantage"! Funny.

If anything, the 5th set tiebreak is advantageous to the player who is in the least good physical condition of the two.

5th set TB should have no place in a slam. When 2 players are so close that they get to 6 all in the 5th, I want to see them play it out the old fashioned way. Make one of them break the other's serve.
^ I agree.

dropshot winner
08-12-2009, 07:03 AM
The final set tiebreak is just cruel, imagine you fight for 5+ hours and then lose because you make 1 unforced error at the wrong moment.

rod99
08-12-2009, 07:03 AM
i like the final set tiebreaker, but hate super saturday.

super saturday cost agassi the 1995 and 2002 us opens against sampras, as he played the later match and had the more grueling match in both years. he admitted after both finals that the semi took a lot out of him and he wasn't feeling great in the final.

CountryHillbilly
08-12-2009, 07:06 AM
Tiebreaker is bad. It's better to just continue until the break of serve.

drwood
08-12-2009, 07:27 AM
5 set tiebreak really ruins it =[. Whats the point then? Karlovic could win the damn thing if he got really hot.

Karlovic is TERRIBLE in tiebreaks given how big he serves -- if he was great in tiebreaks he would be top-10, maybe even top-5.

bluetrain4
08-12-2009, 07:44 AM
The one smart thing the USTA did is schedule both mens semis before the women's final, whic is now in prime time.

This does not, by any means, get rid of all of the problems of having Super Saturday (which I like, but understand why people don't), but, it puts the two winning semifinalists on more equal (not completely equal) footing in regards to their physical condition. Remember, Super Saturday used to be mens semi, women's final, men's semi, so the second men's semi could go really late, while the first semi was always over relatively early.

<3tennis!!!
08-12-2009, 07:51 AM
FIFTH set tb is horrible, just plain horrible. You've potentially played nearly 5 sets of amazing tennis, and to go down in the tb would just be heartbreaking...

FiveO
08-12-2009, 08:07 AM
One of the few "ideas" proposed by McEnroe regarding the US Open that I wouldn't disagree with would be scheduling the Final on Monday, Labor Day, though internationally I could see harsh resistance to that idea.

For Americans, and their Championship, it would give the Final its own showcase on an American holiday, take it off the NFL's opening day and afford the finalists a day's rest.

In that scenario the 2 men's SF would be Saturday, the women's final Sunday, and the men's final Monday. Of course the WTA would most likely be up in arms about the women now being up against the NFL.

The 5th set t.b. vs. playing it out? I'm used to the 5th set t.b.'s by now and remember the debate when the USO first adopted the format which was originally the 9 point truly "sudden death" version. So for me it's an "either or" situation. The problem I would foresee is are we talking about all tourney long or just the finals?

Imagine the outcry if the second men's SF goes 22-20 in the 5th? The point is that there is no way to ensure a totally equal situation for the finalists, at least not the US OPEN and those televising it are trying to show each SF live in their respective entirety, to as wide an audience as possible, which by definition means they can't be played simultaneously.

5

rod99
08-12-2009, 08:27 AM
One of the few "ideas" proposed by McEnroe regarding the US Open that I wouldn't disagree with would be scheduling the Final on Monday, Labor Day, though internationally I could see harsh resistance to that idea.

For Americans, and their Championship, it would give the Final its own showcase on an American holiday, take it off the NFL's opening day and afford the finalists a day's rest.

In that scenario the 2 men's SF would be Saturday, the women's final Sunday, and the men's final Monday. Of course the WTA would most likely be up in arms about the women now being up against the NFL.

The 5th set t.b. vs. playing it out? I'm used to the 5th set t.b.'s by now and remember the debate when the USO first adopted the format which was originally the 9 point truly "sudden death" version. So for me it's an "either or" situation. The problem I would foresee is are we talking about all tourney long or just the finals?

Imagine the outcry if the second men's SF goes 22-20 in the 5th? The point is that there is no way to ensure a totally equal situation for the finalists, at least not the US OPEN and those televising it are trying to show each SF live in their respective entirety, to as wide an audience as possible, which by definition means they can't be played simultaneously.

5

if you played the final on labor day then the entire tournament would have to start a week earlier, as labor day weekend is always the middle weekend of the tournament. with the already congested schedule during the summer, this isn't likely to happen.

tennisNoob78
08-12-2009, 08:30 AM
Super Saturday without a doubt!

Unfair scheduling advantage to the first semifinal winner...

effervescence
08-12-2009, 08:46 AM
Not that big a fan of the final-set TB. Imagine having the outcome of the match being determined by a couple of points in the tiebreak- that would be heartbreaking. The TB could go either way, a few points here and there, and of course the person who wins that (and by extension, the match) would've deserved the win, the whole "sudden death" feel to it does ruin it a little. I prefer the protracted old-fashioned way- well, you've played for 5+ hours, let's just grind it out.

woodrow1029
08-12-2009, 08:52 AM
The worst thing about the U.S. Open for me is Arthur Ashe Kids Day.
What could have been a wonderful idea is in actuality little more than a glorified commercial for various products, masquerading as being "for the kids".
It is only "for the kids" in that the shameless marketing is aimed directly at the kids.

Have you ever been to the U.S. Open on Arthur Ashe Kids' Day? If not, then pretty much the only part you would see on TV would be what's going on in the stadium.

What you don't see is all of the stuff going on on the outside courts. They have minicourt games, full court games and a lot of fun activities pretty much exclusively for kids.

The kids can drill and hit balls with some of the best teaching pros in the country along with a few professional tennis players.

The kids have a blast during the day, and then they love seeing the teenie bopper's concert that they have scheduled in the stadium.

FiveO
08-12-2009, 09:00 AM
if you played the final on labor day then the entire tournament would have to start a week earlier, as labor day weekend is always the middle weekend of the tournament. with the already congested schedule during the summer, this isn't likely to happen.

I'm aware of ALL that, including the how unlikely it would be to happen. But I'm in agreement with McEnroe's stance, even moreso now, because of how much playing conditions have been slowed and how much more of a physical grind the American summer h/c swing has become. I think the players could do with a week's less grind, the finalists get the rest, another day for the US Open to put fannies in their seats, a solo showcase, etc. IMO all good from an American audience's perspective.

5

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-12-2009, 09:09 AM
FIFTH set tb is horrible, just plain horrible. You've potentially played nearly 5 sets of amazing tennis, and to go down in the tb would just be heartbreaking...
Totally agree, and after seeing Fed-Roddick at Wimby im even more concvinced they should play a long 5th set, its more fair to both guys as well.

Arafel
08-12-2009, 09:09 AM
Here's a good argument for the end of Super Saturday: it's hurt Americans in the past: Sampras in 2000 and 2001 for example.

But how many times has the player with the tougher semi won the final? Roddick did in 2003, but Ferrero had played 4 days in a row so he was even more tired.

Meanwhile, both Fed and Nadal won a Slam this year after playing a 5 set semifinal. A day off certainly helped!

McEnroe in 80 for sure, coming back after beating Connors in a fifth set tiebreak in a match that went after 11 at night and beating Borg in five sets the next day. Connors needed four to beat Vilas in 82 while Lendl straight setted McEnroe, but Connors won the final. Arguably McEnroe in 84, again with a five set match against Connors, though Lendl's semi went five sets with the last two going to tiebreaks. Arguable Sampras in 1990, though Agassi went four against Becker too. Edberg in 92 went five against Chang while Sampras beat Courier pretty easily in four, but Edberg won the final. Agassi in 94 went four sets in the semi while Stich won his in three but Agassi won the final. Sampras needed four to beat Goran in 96 while Chang straight setted Agassi, but Sampras beat Chang in three. Rafter needed five to beat Sampras in 98 while Philippoussis only needed four to beat Moya, but Rafter came out on top. Agassi needed four to beat Kafelnikov in 99 while Martin won in straights, but Agassi came out on top. And Roddick in 2003.

So I guess I'd say a lot. It hasn't happened lately because Federer has been so dominant. But it used to happen frequently, and I think made the U.S. Open more interesting because it became a test of physical and mental stamina.

Tobias Fünke
08-12-2009, 09:35 AM
I don't mind the 5th set tiebreak or Super Saturday but I wish the players had more time to rest for the final. A Monday night final would be pretty cool for North American viewers, and obviously tough for the rest of the world.

myusername
08-28-2011, 07:13 AM
The tiebreaker is great. It allows for maximum drama and takes away eventually the advantage of serving 1st in the last set. If you don't think this is an advantage ask any player what they would prefer. It's always "I'll serve 1st". For those traditionalists, sometimes change good. If not we'd all be playing with those horrible wooden racquets.

Also, for those who think that playing the 1st or second semi-final has evened out over the years, again ask any play what the would prefer. 12 hours recovery or 16 hours recovery. Although, I am a big Rafa fan and haven't much cared for the joker, I believe that playing the later Semi and it being a tougher, long and more physical Semi had some effect on Nole that day. We could keep the tradition of Super Saturday by playing a night final. or playing it Monday night. I would prefer Sunday night. Really people who watch 12 hours of football on sundays aren't going to watch tennis anyway. Plus, set your DVRs people.

Cormorant
08-28-2011, 07:30 AM
Also, for those who think that playing the 1st or second semi-final has evened out over the years, again ask any play what the would prefer. 12 hours recovery or 16 hours recovery. Although, I am a big Rafa fan and haven't much cared for the joker, I believe that playing the later Semi and it being a tougher, long and more physical Semi had some effect on Nole that day. We could keep the tradition of Super Saturday by playing a night final. or playing it Monday night. I would prefer Sunday night. Really people who watch 12 hours of football on sundays aren't going to watch tennis anyway. Plus, set your DVRs people.

Djoko definitely didn't have enough in the tank (not to mention a good enough serve) to last the course for that final, but he still got a day's rest when the Sunday final was rained out.

jokinla
08-28-2011, 10:39 AM
The tiebreak for sure, they play for all that time, and then it can come down to one point. A player should have to break and hold. If Isner/Mahut was consistently happening then I would be for the tiebreak, but of course it doesn't, so playing it out is the way it should be done. Super Saturday is fine, makes the players stay fit, or at least aware that if they aren't, it could cost them at this slam.

Bartelby
08-28-2011, 10:55 AM
Both are stupid and reek of cheap populism at the expense of a fairly conducted tournament with a sense of history.

Tshooter
08-28-2011, 11:10 AM
There hasn't been a "Super Saturday" since the USTA got piggy and made the Women's final a separate ticket at night. Super Saturday meant the two men's semis sandwiched around the Women's final. The session/day could go on a long time, hence the name.

Of course, once the marketing types got a hold of the expression, it was on -- forever.

As for disadvantaging the players. I think not. But someone more ambitious could go and study the results in more detail.

Back when there was a Super Saturday the second mens semi could end very late. For example, the famous Orantes comeback against Vilas. No one gave Orantes much chance against Connors the next day. He was already an underdog; add to it the late ending match and lack of sleep. He upset Connors (in four I believe).

Netspirit
08-28-2011, 11:18 AM
FIFTH set tb is horrible, just plain horrible. You've potentially played nearly 5 sets of amazing tennis, and to go down in the tb would just be heartbreaking...

It's beautiful. It does not give the unfair advantage to the player serving first.

And if you end up losing that tiebreak you can always treat it as a lottery with no bad feelings. After all, by the time the tiebreak is played it's obvious that both the players deserve it equally.

Telepatic
08-28-2011, 11:19 AM
I don't mind 5th set tie break as that makes some uniqueness about USO but that "super" Saturday is absolutely horrible, they should definitely get rid of it.

bluetrain4
08-28-2011, 11:36 AM
I'm in the minority of people who like the final set tiebreak.

Believe me, I understand the criticisms of it, so I don't need to be shouted down as to the merits of playing out the final set.

The final set tiebreak simply provides a different challenge, a different kind of pressure, and I like that. I'm just a strong believer that not everything has to be the same. We already have 3 Slams that play out the final set, so why have a fourth. It would be nice if we had 1 Slam where they played out every set, like they used to do .

And, I just don't get critics who speak passionately of the inherent injusitice of a final set tiebreak, but somehow don't see that same injustice for any tiebreak.

I've always loved Super Saturday as a viewer, but realize its limitiations if there are weather issues. Also, there's the issue of less-than-spectacular finals due to player fatigue, but that's not always the case. At least they changed the format from Mens SF-Womens Final-Mens SF to Mens SF-Mens SF-Womens Final, which gives the second mens SF winner some more time to relax and recover.

It will never be perfect. They're trying to maximize TV ratings and $$$ (of course). Friday semis would make sense, but although TWers will find a way to watch on Friday afternoon, casual fans will not. I always thought Friday late SFs would work for attracting more casaual fans and allowing more time for the players to recover before the final. First SF starting around 5:00 EST, which unless an epic match, the second SF could go on around 8:30 or 9:00. Even if the second match went on at 10:00 and lasted until 2:00 am, the second player would still have until Sunday to recover.

celoft
08-28-2011, 02:19 PM
Stupid Saturday.

MichaelNadal
08-28-2011, 02:22 PM
I like the 5th set breaker, it makes things different.

Tshooter
08-28-2011, 02:24 PM
If you don't like the tiebreak, you would hate "sudden death."

Remember Jimmy Van Allen and "sudden death."

For an incorrect description (more great tennis writing) this book excerpt which describes the existing tiebreak as sudden death:

http://tinyurl.com/3bdyb5n

Sudden death was first to win five points.

I think no tiebreak results in the better player prevailing more often. The tiebreak introduces a little bit more luck. You only need a mini-break not breaking a service game. Could Karlovic crack the top 30 without the tiebreak ?

But I've grown to like the tiebreak. It adds drama.

Bryan Swartz
08-28-2011, 02:26 PM
Super Saturday without a question -- though I have to qualify that by saying what's really bad is Super Saturday combined with the Sunday final. It's just too much of an advantadge to the player who wins the first semi.

Super Saturday with a Monday final would be fine.

Crisstti
08-28-2011, 03:11 PM
I don't like the 5 set tiebreak at all. I think there's a lot more drama in playing out the set.

zagor
08-28-2011, 03:19 PM
5 set tiebreak is fine, nice change of pace compared to other slams. Super Saturday however is terrible.

veroniquem
08-28-2011, 03:48 PM
They're both abominable. I can only hope they don't come up with a third one. If they continue, USO will be the death of tennis.
The 5th set TB is such a spectacular anti-climax, it's disheartening. Super Saturday is an aberration extremely detrimental to the quality of the tennis and totally unfair to the players. Trust the USO to come up with the worst ideas ever.
(Both are pandering to TV constraints which couldn't care less about tennis as a sport. Not good.)

TenTan
08-28-2011, 04:47 PM
super Saturday needs to go

Mainad
08-28-2011, 05:21 PM
Not fond of either and both should go but pushed to choose I would prefer to scrap the final set tiebreak.

Final set tiebreaks have no place whatsoever in Slams! I think the USO is the only Slam that has them which is surprising to me.

West Coast Ace
08-28-2011, 05:23 PM
Super Saturday - as long as the men's final is played Sun afternoon and not Mon night. It's slightly better now that the two men's SFs are first. But still a disadvantage to the winner of the 2nd SF.

Players don't like 5th set TB? Work on your return of serve and you'll never have to worry about one. As a fan, after that much play, it's time to settle it.

mistik
08-28-2011, 05:29 PM
Both of them terrible and very disrespectful to the sport and the players.Super Saturday stuff the worst one tough makes you question, is this organization have any seriousness ?

Bryan Swartz
08-28-2011, 07:24 PM
Huh? I see why people disagree with the final-set tiebreak, but how is it remotely disrespectful? They have it in lots of other events, there are a lot more final-set tiebreaks than not.

Gizo
08-29-2011, 06:32 AM
I would hate it if all 4 slams had 5th set tiebreaks, but I like just the US Open having them as it makes it different from the other slams.

Super Saturday I really don't like. I would prefer it if both semi-final winners had a day of rest of the final, making it a better spectacle. It was worse though when the women's final was sandwiched in-between the two men's semi-finals.

DMan
08-29-2011, 02:44 PM
There hasn't been a "Super Saturday" since the USTA got piggy and made the Women's final a separate ticket at night. Super Saturday meant the two men's semis sandwiched around the Women's final. The session/day could go on a long time, hence the name.

Of course, once the marketing types got a hold of the expression, it was on -- forever.

As for disadvantaging the players. I think not. But someone more ambitious could go and study the results in more detail.

Back when there was a Super Saturday the second mens semi could end very late. For example, the famous Orantes comeback against Vilas. No one gave Orantes much chance against Connors the next day. He was already an underdog; add to it the late ending match and lack of sleep. He upset Connors (in four I believe).

"Stupid Saturday" as it should have been called, was a made for TV event. Pretty pathetic that solely for TV purposes, the US Open schedules best of five set matches in consecutive days. Never made sense that between every other round there is at least 1 (and sometimes 2) days rest between. But at the very end of the tournament, where it matters most, the schedule is for the purposes of tv.

Now they ought to call it "Stupid Saturday Night" for all the suckers that buy tickets to the overhyped and decidedly dull women's final. has to be the biggest rip off in sports - the US Open women's final.

There has never been a US Open Men's Final that went to 6-6 in the final set.

Ico
08-29-2011, 03:03 PM
Super Saturday is horrible and I hope it continues to rain on every Final Sunday. Let it be a sign for the ITF.

Homeboy Hotel
08-29-2011, 03:06 PM
What is Super Saturday?

Tim Tennis
08-29-2011, 04:38 PM
5th set TB should have no place in a slam. When 2 players are so close that they get to 6 all in the 5th, I want to see them play it out the old fashioned way. Make one of them break the other's serve.

Oh no, I think all the slams should have a TB in the 5th set.

Caesar
08-29-2011, 06:07 PM
Most of the 'innovations' introduced by the USO are rubbish, but Super Saturday and the final set tiebreak are the worst.

Hard to choose between them for awfulness.

mellowyellow
08-29-2011, 07:47 PM
Super Saturday is the worst, remember Andre playing Hewitt and Pete playing Schalkin, guess who was fresher in the final?

tacou
08-29-2011, 07:51 PM
they are both awesome this is america

Subventricular Zone
08-29-2011, 11:16 PM
Super Saturday is a TV ratings gimmick that needs to go. Obviously, the guy with the easier semi-final will have a better chance of recovery for the final the following day. Why they would sacrifice the quality of a Grand Slam final is beyond me. Why can't they just have the men's SF on a Friday, late afternoon/night, which also corresponds to prime time TV? I guess Friday prime time shows on CBS pay better than tennis.