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View Full Version : cause/reason for injury, withdrawls at national's


papatenis
08-13-2009, 03:58 PM
berkeley, kalamazoo, san diego national championships. if you look at the draws, you'll notice lots of withdrawls and injuries. i would compare these national championships to grand slams, but in the grand slams, your don't see this many withdrawls and injuries in the main and backdraw? what gives

SoCalDominates
08-13-2009, 04:28 PM
well its most always in the backdraw and you dont have backdraws in grand slams one. 2) at the zoo people have flights scheduled and when a day or two gets cancelled b/c of rain like it did they have to leave when there flights are. Its very expensive to change flights. And then there are the very select few who are actually sick or hurt

tennismom42
08-13-2009, 04:29 PM
berkeley, kalamazoo, san diego national championships. if you look at the draws, you'll notice lots of withdrawls and injuries. i would compare these national championships to grand slams, but in the grand slams, your don't see this many withdrawls and injuries in the main and backdraw? what gives

I saw an excessive number of kids cramping out.
Most can handle the heat, but not the heat & humidity combo.
I know they reached the heat index on Sunday. I don't know about the other days.

My kid went down to cramping. He had to pick up each leg to (frankenstein) walk himself to the net for the handshake. He refused to let his last junior's match be a default.

I also noticed an awful lot of competitors with wrapped ankles or arriving with ankle-role guards on one or both sides. Yellow shirted trainers rarely got to sit down before being called out again.

Try to remember, most of these players played this hard last week too. They were either at the National Team Championship (level 1) or they were at the Illinois men's Futures. So some brought injuries with them.

SoCal10s
08-13-2009, 04:38 PM
some kids don't worry about points earned especially those high rank kids,USTA kids,and those who are going on to college because they don't need ranking points..
those USTA kids always get prefered treatment to get wild cards so they always get to play nationals tournaments even when they don't have enough points or high ranked..
those college bound kids just cared about the main draw for maybe just getting into USO..

tennismom42
08-13-2009, 05:49 PM
berkeley, kalamazoo, san diego national championships. if you look at the draws, you'll notice lots of withdrawls and injuries. i would compare these national championships to grand slams, but in the grand slams, your don't see this many withdrawls and injuries in the main and backdraw? what gives

I see what you mean. Here's some results:

Consolation:
R4 Campbell Johnson d. (17) JT Sundling Wo (inj)
R4 Nathan Pasha d. Sidarth Balaji Def (ns)
R4 Warren Hardie d. Ryan Noble Wo (inj)
R4 (11) Junior Ore d. (1) Alexander Domijan Wo (inj)
R4 Jonathan Chang d. Joseph Schafer Wo (inj)
R4 Alex Van Velzer d. (31) Sean Berman Wo (inj)
R3 Campbell Johnson d. Zhongming Chen Def (ns)
R3 Evan Song d. Spencer Wolf Def (ns)
R3 David Holiner d. Billy Bertha Def (ns)
R3 Jonathan Chang d. William Federhofer Def (ns)
R3 Michael Zhu d. Brian Fang 6-0Ret (inj)
R3 Andy Nguyen d. Garrett Brasseaux Wo (inj)
R3 Cale Hammond d. Chase Melton 3-6; 6-2; 2-0Ret (inj)
R2 David Holiner d. James Davis Def (ns)
R2 Chase Melton d. Denis Bogatov Def (ns)
R2 Trevor Horstmann d. Will Reynolds Def (ns)

B18s are packed full of Def (ns), but B16s does not have that going on.

Is it just me or is there NO EXCUSE for a Default No-show?!?!?! Come on. This is 2009, e-mail is everywhere, telephones are everywhere.

I'd like to hold out that some of those Default no shows are going to be converted to inj/ill outs, after they provide a doctor's note. However, I've been known to be gullible in the past.

SoCalDominates
08-13-2009, 05:54 PM
no shows get suspension points too. haha just thought I'd point out that Campbell Johnson got 2 of those def.'s good for him. watch out he can make a backdraw run he took out pasha today

stanfordtennis alum
08-13-2009, 06:00 PM
wow.. so many defaults in the backdraw, lack of fitness for a lot of the kids... if they want to have success at the pro level, there should be no excuses for not playing matches

SoCal10s
08-13-2009, 06:05 PM
wow.. so many defaults in the backdraw, lack of fitness for a lot of the kids... if they want to have success at the pro level, there should be no excuses for not playing matches

backdraws are for those who lost.. I'm pretty sure if you cannot win today's Kalamazoo you have little chance at a pro career...

1 kid I know was a legit injury,he had to get an I.V. after his win,and he lost his following match and had to default the back draw..but guys like Berman and Domijan couldn't care less about back draw points..

papatenis
08-13-2009, 06:13 PM
are these kids playing too much prior to the nat'l championships, or they just don't care, and is it possible that the usta doesn't care either? i think the usta setup the tournament with a backdraw for good reasons, but these kids/parents/coaches just disregard the backdraw as a waste of time? maybe the usta needs to make some major changes, because this teaches our kids to just "bail" when they don't feel like playing.

ChiefAce
08-13-2009, 06:21 PM
There are no backdraws in futures or pro events, many of the kids playing at this level lose and don't want to play consolation. Especially in the 18's, in 16's they still might be scrapping for some extra points.

tennismom42
08-13-2009, 06:31 PM
are these kids playing too much prior to the nat'l championships, or they just don't care, and is it possible that the usta doesn't care either? i think the usta setup the tournament with a backdraw for good reasons, but these kids/parents/coaches just disregard the backdraw as a waste of time? maybe the usta needs to make some major changes, because this teaches our kids to just "bail" when they don't feel like playing. Yep, the USTA needs to exercise their "friend at court" rules and dole out these suspension points. Def ns = 5 suspension points. At 10, you're done for 3 months -- no USTA tournaments.

Even if they are going off to college, a rule is a rule. They owe the sport the dignity of compliance. How difficult is it to just make a phone call or shoot an e-mail? Where are the parents in this? How could they also let their kid do something this disrespectful?

papatenis
08-13-2009, 06:32 PM
There are no backdraws in futures or pro events, many of the kids playing at this level lose and don't want to play consolation. Especially in the 18's, in 16's they still might be scrapping for some extra points.

then why have backdraws?

tennismom42
08-13-2009, 06:35 PM
I see what you mean. Here's some results:

Consolation:
R4 Campbell Johnson d. (17) JT Sundling Wo (inj)
R4 Nathan Pasha d. Sidarth Balaji Def (ns)
R4 Warren Hardie d. Ryan Noble Wo (inj)
R4 (11) Junior Ore d. (1) Alexander Domijan Wo (inj)
R4 Jonathan Chang d. Joseph Schafer Wo (inj)
R4 Alex Van Velzer d. (31) Sean Berman Wo (inj)
R3 Campbell Johnson d. Zhongming Chen Def (ns)
R3 Evan Song d. Spencer Wolf Def (ns)
R3 David Holiner d. Billy Bertha Def (ns)
R3 Jonathan Chang d. William Federhofer Def (ns)
R3 Michael Zhu d. Brian Fang 6-0Ret (inj)
R3 Andy Nguyen d. Garrett Brasseaux Wo (inj)
R3 Cale Hammond d. Chase Melton 3-6; 6-2; 2-0Ret (inj)
R2 David Holiner d. James Davis Def (ns)
R2 Chase Melton d. Denis Bogatov Def (ns)
R2 Trevor Horstmann d. Will Reynolds Def (ns)

B18s are packed full of Def (ns), but B16s does not have that going on.

Is it just me or is there NO EXCUSE for a Default No-show?!?!?! Come on. This is 2009, e-mail is everywhere, telephones are everywhere.

I'd like to hold out that some of those Default no shows are going to be converted to inj/ill outs, after they provide a doctor's note. However, I've been known to be gullible in the past.

Guess what's next?. How many of these (Def n/s) kids got a wild card to get in? How many of these kids will get a wild card into the USO or ITF or ???? Some of these kids have a known reputation for not bothering to show up for the back draw. Rediculous

mtommer
08-13-2009, 07:19 PM
Is it just me or is there NO EXCUSE for a Default No-show?!?!?! Come on. This is 2009, e-mail is everywhere, telephones are everywhere.


Having worked registration as well as monitoring the indoor courts I heard many "So when/who do you play next?" and the answer "I dunno." It wasn't because there wasn't a winner yet. The kids and even parents just didn't take the time to find out, putting it off until the next day. It doesn't surprise me some got lost in the shuffle of laziness. At the same time, some of the kids who walked in where obviously on top of things. Usually these were the kids who were practicing with intent and focusing on specific areas they were deficient in at their last match. No amount of technology can make up for laziness.

mtommer
08-13-2009, 07:21 PM
Guess what's next?. How many of these (Def n/s) kids got a wild card to get in? How many of these kids will get a wild card into the USO or ITF or ???? Some of these kids have a known reputation for not bothering to show up for the back draw. Rediculous

Their loss too. Even if the only thing they get out of it is further match experience then that would make it worth it if you ask me. Especially given the scope of players who come to Kalamazoo.

tennismom42
08-13-2009, 07:40 PM
Having worked registration as well as monitoring the indoor courts I heard many "So when/who do you play next?" and the answer "I dunno." It wasn't because there wasn't a winner yet. The kids and even parents just didn't take the time to find out, putting it off until the next day. It doesn't surprise me some got lost in the shuffle of laziness. At the same time, some of the kids who walked in where obviously on top of things. Usually these were the kids who were practicing with intent and focusing on specific areas they were deficient in at their last match. No amount of technology can make up for laziness. Having to utilize the ustaboys.com website was a royal pain. I don't have a problem with putting all the fluff (news) on the ustaboys.com website. However I do take great issue with putting the draws on it. K-zoo is the only tournament, all year long that uses some funky "other" site.

It's just my opinion, but this *IS* a USTA tournament & I feel Kzoo has a responsibility to post the mandatory (draw) information on the usta tournament website -- just like every other tournament during the year.

As it is now, the usta tournament website is typically days behind in results. Kzoo staff are having to enter results TWICE (once for usta website & once for the ustaboys website). Also, the ustaboys website often lags in the draws tab whereas the competitor's tab has the data. That's what you get when you don't have an interactive website.

The best thing Kzoo could do to improve the transmission of match times, results is to do what they're suppose to do... post the mandatory data on the usta website, just like every other tournament. If kzoo folks want it on the ustaboys.com website, they can enter it SECONDARILY, after they enter it on the usta website. The kids & parents use the usta website.

It would be a real travesty if some of these players didn't get to their match because of what's NOT posted on the alternative ustaboys.com website, but I would NOT be the least bit surprised. It does not list times or locations, as required by usta rules.

If Kzoo wants to reduce confusion, they need to provide accurate and timely information. No one should have to drive to Stowe site, search for a parking spot, walk to the site to look at the board. Yet most everyone had to do this.

ChiefAce
08-13-2009, 08:08 PM
Why have backdraws? Ask the USTA, many players would pass on it at the higher levels for sure. High level events at the adult level almost never have backdraws, if I'm not playing for first place who cares is basically the mentality for many.

tennismom42
08-13-2009, 08:47 PM
Why have backdraws? Ask the USTA, many players would pass on it at the higher levels for sure. High level events at the adult level almost never have backdraws, if I'm not playing for first place who cares is basically the mentality for many.
You're asking that question about the organization that insist on doubles counting for singles rankings, because the USTA wants them to play more tennis?!?!

There's a back draw in USTA tennis, because it provides more opportunities to compete. Also, the USA is quite expansive. No-one would be interested in competing if it required so much long distance travel with little or no hope for more than 1 match.

If the higher levels would like to pass on it & pass on complying with the KNOWN rules, they can leave. Love it or leave it. Leave it & go chase ITF points instead. They can leave the USTA stuff to us hillbillies that appreciate & respect the USTA offerings.

In order to get one's USTA membership, there's a statement in there that says the member agrees to follow all the rules of USTA tennis. In order to be endorsed by one's section it is also a requirement. In order to compete in the US Open, it is a requirement, at both the USTA & ITF level.