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game.set.match
08-20-2009, 05:49 AM
i recently bought a klipper mate drop weight stringing machine and i strung a few racquets but i seem to keep having the problem...the tension on the racquet is ALOT lower than the tension i set the weight at.
i followed the instructions they gave me and added two or three pounds on the last two strings of the mains but i still find it loses a lot of tension once i finished the racquet.
is it my fly clamps that may be the problem? the knots? or should i just add a few extra pounds on the weight to compensate for the tension loss?

pingu
08-20-2009, 05:57 AM
I have a good feeling that you didn't have it clamped tight enough and the string lost tension during the process. I assume that you had the rod parallel with the ground.

Dgpsx7
08-20-2009, 06:30 AM
do you pull the knot with pliers or do you lightly use the drop weight tension. I pull all my knots with the drop weight so no tension loss occurs from them.

goran_ace
08-20-2009, 07:13 AM
I pull all my knots with the drop weight so no tension loss occurs from them.

That practice is not recommended. Your knots might be pulled too tight and could risk damaging the grommet and the string to which they are anchored.

Check out YULitle's youtube vid on the Parnell knot and note how he cinches it.

Rabbit
08-20-2009, 07:42 AM
IMO, the problem comes from the exclusive use of flying/floating clamps. They simply do not do an adequate job of keeping the string in place.

That said, I would suggest upping your tension until you find something that agrees with you. Tension is only a number and if you string exlusively for yourself, then you'll know it. The resulting stringbed will always be a little softer, but you'll get used to it.

When I went from a Gamma dropweight to my Neos, there was about a 10 pound downward adjustment needed. Keep that in mind and I would string a few sets of a $3 synthetic to get an idea of where your tension should be.

SpinDog
08-20-2009, 07:44 AM
...the tension on the racquet is ALOT lower than the tension i set the weight at...

I was just curious as to how you determined that the tension was a lot lower and by how much? I assume that you were reading the tension on the bar on the correct side of the weight during stringing?

game.set.match
08-20-2009, 08:06 AM
yea thanks, i guess for now i'll just up the tension to compensate for the tension loss.
and i use pliers to tighten my knots.
and i knew that the tension on the racquet was lower because when i used to get my racquet strung at my tennis club, they strung it at 55lbs (Wilson Kblade 98-luxilon BB rough), but after i bought the drop weight machine and strung a racquet, it did not feel like the tension was 55lbs (i set the weight at 55lbs) because i had no control on my shots and it felt like the racquet was bending when i hit a shot. plus i like to straighten my strings out with my hands inbetween shots and i noticed that the strings were really loose and easy to move around which isnt the way they used to be, which indicates that my tension is low.

Loco4Tennis
08-20-2009, 08:52 AM
i have a klipper , have not had this issue yet, but this is what i would check,
make sure you are tightening the Vise Bracket Assembly to the central bar, if its too loose then it will move when you pull tension
also ive heard of the tension scale decal could be placed too low, hence the tension for 55 lbs could be lower then normal, this can be checked by doing a pull test, you do need a tension scale to see if 55lbs is really pulling at 55lbs of tension
make sure you also have the arrow(sticker) on the drum weight, at the bottom and not at the top, this would also drop tension for you
but like menitoned above, i would mostly check for slippage on the string clamps or the string jaws, hope that helps

sunshineCK
08-20-2009, 09:37 AM
there have been previous threads where people have calibrated their Klippermates using fish weight scales and other methods- to save you some time, they found that the actual pulling tension was around 4-5 lbs less than indicated on the scale.... since then I've been adding 5 lbs (60 for 55, 63, for 58, etc) and getting similar results to my local stringer (he's an MRT so I trust his machine/skills). I usually use hybrids of poly and multi.

anyway, just experiment, if you're not stringing for other people, just find the setting you like! :)

Irvin
08-20-2009, 12:35 PM
is it my fly clamps that may be the problem? the knots? or should i just add a few extra pounds on the weight to compensate for the tension loss?

I would think the floating / flying clamps are the reason for your problem. There is a awful lot of drawback with those types of clamps.

I do not have your problem because I do not use flying clamps but there may be a way to correct the problem. You need to experiment. I am not sure if this will work or not but try pulling your string through the tie off hole and inserting an awl into the hole with the other two string then pull tension on the string and make sure the awl is in the hole snug. Release tension and see if the the drawback is reduced and tie your knot. Be careful not to tie the knot around the awl or nick the string.

When I went from a Gamma dropweight to my Neos, there was about a 10 pound downward adjustment needed. Keep that in mind and I would string a few sets of a $3 synthetic to get an idea of where your tension should be.

Well that is not supposed to be. The NEOS is a crank machine while the drop weight is a constant pull. Everyone says when you go from constant pull to cramp you need to up your tension by 10%. Of course they never take into account the clamping system do they?

Irvin

Mongolmike
08-20-2009, 03:29 PM
I've got the base Klippermate drop weight unit, and have had it for 6-7 years. I've got the black stringmeter you can buy here from TW for like $30, and it shows the exact same weight as what I set the stringer at.

Then, early this year I bought the Gamma tension meter from TW just to verify... and it too was spot on. So for me, everything calibrates (which I am very happy about).

And one of the tips to see if the floating clamps are slipping is this: while you are stringing and have the clamp set, sometimes the small writing on the strings is near the floating clamp. When you raise the drop weight up and put all the holding power onto the floating clamp... see if the writing on the string is staying the same distance from the clamp. If it is, clamps are holding fine. If not, they are slipping. And the clamps are easily adjustable... just don't tighten them too much, or you'll crush the strings in ways you don't really want to!

abenguyen
08-20-2009, 11:17 PM
also think its the floating clamps. i myself have one and found that the floating clamps always tend to move when tension is released.

the more and more you string and the more practice you get, you learn to string a bit faster so that so much tension isn't lost. (i.e. when string mains, what i do is i tension the string, clamp, then while its holding tension, i thread the next main, so all i have to do is bring the drop weight up, turn the racquet and tension the next string. i do the same for the crosses and it hasn't let me down yet.)

Irvin
08-21-2009, 05:00 AM
If your problem is due to the flying clamps there are two reasons that I can think of. The clamps may be slipping and need to be tightened or the drawback on the last string is causing the problem. Another possible problem (since you are using a poly string) is the tension arm is not falling to the correct horizontal position. Poly strings stretch less so the string should be gripped with the arm in a lower position to allow it to drop to a horizontal position. If the arm is at a higher or lower position when it comes to rest you tension will be less.

You can test to see if the clamps are slipping by marking the string and looking to see if the clamp slips after tension is released.

If the drawback is causing your problem you may want to try at ATW one piece stringing method. The method I like is to string all but the last outside main and the top cross with the short side. I alternate stringing mains on the short side and long side don't do all the mains on the short side and then go to the long side. When you pull tension on the top cross you can hold the string on the outside of the frame with a starting clamp or the flying clamp from the short side. With the long side of the string string all but the last main and then string the third cross with the same over under pattern as the top cross. This is necessary because the second cross will be strung near the end of stringing and must be opposite to the pattern above and below it. There should now be four holes at the top of the racket that are not strung two on each side. These are for the outside mains and the top cross. For your KBlade 98 string the crosses all the way down to 11T (the last cross above the outside main) then string the last main up the racket on the long side, cross over to the short side stringing the second cross, and then the last main down the short side of the racket. Continue stringing the bottom crosses and tie off the bottom cross. Go back up to the top cross and pull tension on it. Remove the clamp from the outside of the racket and place the clamp on the inside of the frame and tie off the top cross.

Using this method the mains will help to hold the clamp from twisting and you should have less drawback. Make sure you clamp the string you are tying off as close to a main as possible to prevent twisting. The clamp should also be touching a main on the side of the clamp opposite the tension head.

Irvin

Rabbit
08-21-2009, 05:13 AM
Well that is not supposed to be. The NEOS is a crank machine while the drop weight is a constant pull. Everyone says when you go from constant pull to cramp you need to up your tension by 10%. Of course they never take into account the clamping system do they?

Irvin

I've had my frames strung on a Babolat electronic machine that cost $12K. If there was a 10% difference in tension, I did not feel it and I used to be very fussy about tension in the C10 when I used poly. The whole crank thing is urban legend as far as I'm concerned. I have a calibrator and when I pull 50 pounds, the calibrator registers 50 pounds. An electronic machine that pulls 50 pounds, or a dropweight that pulls 50 pounds would be the same <end of story?>.

The difference, according to mostly dropweight guys, is that constant pull theory. My contention is that it has nothing to do with it. It would, if I left the string in the tension head unclamped for an extended period of time. I don't, and I don't know any stringer worth his/her salt that does. Tension is pulled and the string is clamped in 15 seconds or less. The Neos, and other crank machines, produce more consistent results quicker than any dropweight out there. The Neos, produces more consistent and accurate results than any machine, dropweight or electronic, with only flying clamps. The Neos is the best stringing machine $ for $ made, IMO.

The real difference is the clamps. On expensive electronic machines, they have swivel clamps. This means that when the crosses are being done, unlike fixed clamps, each cross can be clamped. There is zero creep then when a cross is tensioned. There is minimal creep using a Neos when you move the clamp from one cross to another, but I think it's enough to account for any difference. The downside to swivel clamps is they have more 'stuff' to go wrong and have to be maintained more often certainly than fixed clamps.

Machines that use flying clamps don't produce as tight a stringbed as those that do not. The very nature of flying clamps is the culprit as it uses another string rather than something external of the stringbed to anchor it. There is very noticeable drawback associated here. I was never able, no matter how tight I set the clamps, to eliminate this.

All that said, again it's what you get used to.

My thinking was that 999/1000 pro shops I went into had Neos machines. If I were traveling and needed a racquet restrung, there would be zero conversion and I would get the same stringbed. I also purchased a Neos because it is pretty much the defacto standard in stringing machines and they are made like tanks. It would and has been the last stringing machine I'll ever buy.

I've been stringing 30 years. My first machine was a piece of crap Tremont, my second was a Gamma dropweight with flying clamps and my current machine of the last ten years is a Neos. I have never damaged a frame on it, I have never had any incidents. I have strung thousands of frames on it alone. Between the 3 machines I've owned, it is hands down the best. I at least have strung on both and can compare the results objectively. If I had gotten as good a result with my dropweight, I certainly wouldn't have plunked down $1300 for a Neos. Fact is, when I got my frames strung on a Neos, the string bed was firmer and more consistent.

Disclaimer: I have never owned a dropweight with fixed/swivel clamps so I cannot speak to the quality of the stringbed. That said, I would never consider trading my Neos for any dropweight regardless of the clamping system because they are much slower than a crank.

It seems folks with dropweight machines, especially lower end dropweights, love to throw rocks at crank machines. I just simply do not understand this. Again, the Neos is the standard stringing machine in America and is used by more folks than any other brand in my experience. This contingent who constantly push their $150 machines as the ultimate solution are just plain wrong. With stringing machines, you get what you pay for.

Irvin
08-21-2009, 07:37 AM
...The whole crank thing is urban legend as far as I'm concerned.
...
The Neos, and other crank machines, produce more consistent results quicker than any dropweight out there.
...
The real difference is the clamps. ... Machines that use flying clamps don't produce as tight a stringbed as those that do not.


I agree with all of the above 100%

My thinking was that 999/1000 pro shops I went into had Neos machines.

Don't come to the Atlanta area, with the exception of one golf store, I have never seen a crank machine in a pro shop. And the crank machine I did see was not a NEOS.

I would agree the NEOS is a great machine, and have no idea why I do not see any in the pro shops.

When I made the comment about upping the tension on a crank by 10% I was being facetious. now watch what you are going to start. lol

Irvin

Rabbit
08-21-2009, 08:38 AM
When I made the comment about upping the tension on a crank by 10% I was being facetious. now watch what you are going to start. lol

Irvin

LMAO......thanks!

wksoh
08-22-2009, 12:07 AM
Tension on my dropweight machines have been very accurate and consistent with those strung at pro shops. Check if your strings are slipping in the clamps - you can also use a pen to mark on the cross strings. I had a Gamma drop weight and now an Eagnas Flex 100. Both employ flying clamps. Metal clamps seemed to last longer in terms of slippage.