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View Full Version : "access to spin"...anyone care to explain?


canadave
08-26-2009, 07:13 AM
I keep seeing people say things like "Racquet X has great access to spin". Can anyone who believes in that please explain to me how that's supposed to work? How, exactly, does one racquet provide more "access to spin" than another? I'm genuinely curious.

ci2ca
08-26-2009, 07:27 AM
An aeropro drive has more access to spin than a prestige mid. Why? String patterns, headsize, and swingweight.

canadave
08-26-2009, 07:29 AM
Thanks...definitely I can see string pattern as making a difference. Not sure about headsize and swingweight though...care to elaborate?

Meaghan
08-26-2009, 07:33 AM
There are a number of reasons...strings, headsize, floating stringbeds, open stringpatterns ( although my rackets tend to have dense string patterns and they still produce loads of spin ) etc etc.
The word 'access' is used as it may be available but it doesnt mean everybody can have access to it, it needs good technique and accelleration thro the ball.

Meaghan
08-26-2009, 07:36 AM
bigger SW means more accelleration thro the ball.
bigger headsize means the ball stays on the strings longer. Obviously this is relative and doesnt mean 200" head would spin a hole into the ground, as the ball can only stay on the strings for a small amount of time

fuzz nation
08-26-2009, 07:52 AM
It depends on how you hit the ball... unfortunately...

A modern stroke with more angular contact depends on racquet head speed along with bite that may come with a more open string pattern. Frames like the Pure Drive and APD can be ideal for this.

The stroke that goes a little more "through" the ball than across the ball can tap into more spin when the racquet has more flex, given the same type of stroke. In this case, there's essentially the same amount of low-to-high in the stroke - this makes the spin - but there's less linear velocity put into the ball when the racquet bends back away from it upon contact. Same spin with less velocity on the ball yields a shot that's easier to keep down on the court as you swing away. Poly strings in stiffer racquets are very un-resilient, so they limit velocity on the ball while still making the same spin for a given stroke.

I used a Prince NXG for a while which is a heavy, very flexible racquet with a very dense string pattern. Despite that pattern, I got more spin with that frame than just about anything else I ever played with in recent history. I believe that an open pattern may help a stiffer frame bite on the ball better and get it spinning, but as the racquet gets softer, I don't find that the pattern matters as much, at least for spin. I'm sure that there are exceptions out there, but these observations have surfaced as I've noodled with different gear.

ryushen21
08-26-2009, 07:53 AM
The way that I have always looked at is that an open string pattern imparts greater spin due to increased bite, lower string tension allows for more dwell time and therefore increases spin potential, lighter racquets (being more powerful) require the user to impart more spin to keep the ball in.

It's really a relative term imho. A 16x18 racquet will have greater access to spin than an 18x20. A textured or profiled string will have more than a round, uncoated one etc. etc.

Rabbit
08-26-2009, 08:20 AM
It's a great question. I too have wondered about this as conventional wisdom does not always apply. When I went from the C10 to the Head Vilas, I was immediately impressed by how much more spin I could get with a wood frame; same was true with a Kramer Auto and any other regular sized frame.

Smaller head, denser string pattern, same tension much much more flex.....I wondered what the difference was...

JackB1
08-26-2009, 09:10 AM
Have you ever read a TW review that DIDN'T say "good access to spin"? I have read the same things said about open and tight string patterns, so go figure.

OHBH
08-26-2009, 09:57 AM
Have you ever read a TW review that DIDN'T say "good access to spin"? I have read the same things said about open and tight string patterns, so go figure.

TW has got to make the money

akybo
08-26-2009, 10:41 AM
It depends on how you hit the ball... unfortunately...

A modern stroke with more angular contact depends on racquet head speed along with bite that may come with a more open string pattern. Frames like the Pure Drive and APD can be ideal for this.

The stroke that goes a little more "through" the ball than across the ball can tap into more spin when the racquet has more flex, given the same type of stroke. In this case, there's essentially the same amount of low-to-high in the stroke - this makes the spin - but there's less linear velocity put into the ball when the racquet bends back away from it upon contact.
Interesting!Maybe that's why oldschool players preffered low flex frames.
Another thing I notice is the higher swingweight=more spin.

Kevo
08-26-2009, 03:02 PM
I've never hit with a frame that I wasn't able to produce a good deal of spin with. I think the most important factor is how much swing speed can you generate with a particular frame. My personal take on the matter is that every person will probably have a range of frame specs that optimize their own potential for swing speed, and spin as a result.

AndrewD
08-26-2009, 05:50 PM
I keep seeing people say things like "Racquet X has great access to spin". Can anyone who believes in that please explain to me how that's supposed to work? How, exactly, does one racquet provide more "access to spin" than another? I'm genuinely curious.

Insert the word 'easy' into the equation. Then, instead of saying that 'Racquet X has great or greater access to spin than Racquet Y' you would say, more accurately, that 'Racquet X has easier access to spin'. Anyone who can't make that distinction is just being obtuse.

Keifers
08-26-2009, 07:07 PM
Some excellent points made already. I agree that the most important factor is how much swing speed you can generate with a particular frame. How much spin and pace the frame imparts to the ball depends also on angle of incidence, another product of frame and technique. (I'm no expert; just my opinion.)

String pattern, swingweight, flex (flex pattern), string gauge and tension, head size, even beam width can add to (or subtract from) the racquet's spin potential.

Kevo
08-27-2009, 08:14 AM
To truly answer the question of what potential a particular frame can add to spin we need to conduct some tests.

I propose we get the human machine string tester guy to use a small selection of diverse frames with the same string and tension. Then we have a high speed camera capturing the swing and spin. That would tell us what kind of variation in spin different frames could make.

I bet it would be relatively small compared to the variation between players using the same frame.

cadfael_tex
08-27-2009, 08:23 AM
It's a great question. I too have wondered about this as conventional wisdom does not always apply. When I went from the C10 to the Head Vilas, I was immediately impressed by how much more spin I could get with a wood frame; same was true with a Kramer Auto and any other regular sized frame.

Smaller head, denser string pattern, same tension much much more flex.....I wondered what the difference was...


I noticed this a while back when for a lark I took my head vilas off the wall - especially on slice serves. Felt like the ball stayed on the strings longer because the whole frame bent with the impact to cup the ball - if that makes sense.

The idea that a larger stringbed (OS vs MS etc) gives more opportunity to produce spin makes sense to me. I've got one OS (Head Graph Director) in the bag that I might have to experiment with on this.

Kevo
08-28-2009, 07:22 PM
I was hitting with my wood frame just the other day. It's not that hard to hit some good spin with it, but the problem is when you try to ramp it up to 11. That's when the frame shots start spraying all over the court.

I think an oversize frame just provides more margin for error. Also, many oversize frames are lighter as well, which can translate into more swing speed.

sstchur
08-28-2009, 11:26 PM
There is a book called "Technical Tennis" which you might be interested to read. I'm sure your local library probably has it.

It's very interesting and explains a lot of the physics behind how different aspects of a racquet affect how it plays.

The most important factors are:

- Head size
- Overall weight
- Distribution of weight
- Stringbed stiffness
- Frame stiffness

One thing that stood out for me was the mention of head size and how they included the math (in addition to lots of lab tests) which showed that a larger head size offers greater /potential/ for spin, simply because there is more surface area for the ball to move against (albeit, briefly).

This doesn't mean that you /will/ get more spin with a larger head size. It merely means there is more /potential/.

I think there might be a 2nd edition of the book too. It's worth checking out. Puts to rest a lot of the nonsense you reads on these forums.

jwbarrientos
08-29-2009, 03:07 AM
What I see after going from a ligther frame to heavy one is that spin are easy to get.

I read all post, mostly of them add a good point of view, I read that concept "potential" that probably means that you could generate spin if you have the proper technique.