PDA

View Full Version : Going from old school to............


Ripper014
09-02-2009, 05:09 PM
Ok this is my first post... so here goes.

I have been playing tennis for decades and my game surprisingly has not changed much over the years... I can still cover the court well and am in full control of an all-court game.

As the topic of my thread implies I am very much old school... I have just started playing again after a 15 year self imposed hiatus, am I am loving it again.

So here is my dilemma... my equipment consists of 3 Dunlop 200g's and 6 Wilson Prostaff 6.0 85's, my racket of choice. I am considering selling 3 of my Prostaff and using the monies to upgrade to newer frames... I want to keep the head size to a minimum so I am considering either the Prostaff Tour 90, the nCode Tour 90 or of course the Six-One Tour 90.

The reason for the small head that I have long flowing strokes and have had control issues with 95 plus head sizes in the past.

Anyone have any pearls of wisdom for an old school player who knows how to use the whole tennis court.

Classic_Obsession
09-02-2009, 08:29 PM
What do you not like about your 200g's and PS85's??

Although the rackets I play with are older than I am, I find them better than the modern rackets in pretty much all aspects.

Well, if you just want to try some modern frames, I guess that's okay. But I'm sure you won't find that sweet feel you get with the classic sticks.

I have played with PS Tour 90 and I can tell you, it's not a bad frame. Gorgeous paintjob and good control. But very low power. Worth a try I guess. (I am a power player so it doesn't fit me very well)

canadave
09-03-2009, 05:02 AM
Yes, I agree here--why change unless there's some reason to? Unless you're unhappy with the hit you get out of your existing sticks?

VGP
09-03-2009, 05:35 AM
Feel free to experiment. Demo, borrow frames from your hitting partners, etc.

But don't sell your frames.

Yeah you'll get enough money to buy "new" rackets, but should you find that you really don't like the new offerings, you'll be paying almost new or more than new prices to get back 200gs and PS85s.

The Dunlop Max 200g and the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize are collector's items now. It's good that people continue to remember and value those rackets, but bad when it comes to looking for replacements.

You say you've got six PS85s and three 200gs and for many that's a lot of frames, but since they're not made anymore, should you continue to use them, exact replacements are getting harder and harder to come by. Especially factoring in condition and grip size preferences.

I've bought "new" frames, Dunlop HM200gs, Chinese Wilson PS85s, Wilson kPS88s......sadly I'm finding that I still prefer my Taiwanese PS85s.

My latest experiment is going from old school to old school. I'm trying out the Wilson Graphite Force.

dadozen
09-03-2009, 06:01 AM
Agreed with posters above. Don't sell your racquets. I understand that you must be feeling the itchy to get new racquets, as we all do here, but you have already great racquets that are also collector's items. You'll definitely have a hard time finding a nice replace for them.

But, try, demo, experiment, borrow racquets as much as you can. It's nice to feel and play with other racquets, so you can always return to your own and think:"oh baby, you're the best":)

Power Player
09-03-2009, 06:45 AM
I still like the oldschool frames better. You can hit so hard with them and control the ball. There is a reason most pros use old school frames under their racquet PJs. I feel like I have the best modern racquet in the Apdc, but they have so much power that it's tough to control.

My ideal racquet is still thin beamed and flexy.

The_Question
09-03-2009, 06:55 AM
I had the same phase as you. Went away from tennis for about 14 years and came back last fall, wanted to upgrade to modern frames, but ended up going back to a frame that's not different than the one I used in the past.

Stay with what you've and try to improve your skills, play differently, experience with different techniques, etc...

cadfael_tex
09-03-2009, 06:58 AM
Got to agree with the folks. Don't sell! I'm going to lighter frames because of health and strength issues after a long time out of the game (and a medevac not too long ago). I would still be playing with the PS I had or better yet the Addidas GTX's I loved so long ago :)

FedererClone
09-03-2009, 07:00 AM
Feel free to experiment. Demo, borrow frames from your hitting partners, etc.

But don't sell your frames.

Yeah you'll get enough money to buy "new" rackets, but should you find that you really don't like the new offerings, you'll be paying almost new or more than new prices to get back 200gs and PS85s.

The Dunlop Max 200g and the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize are collector's items now. It's good that people continue to remember and value those rackets, but bad when it comes to looking for replacements.

You say you've got six PS85s and three 200gs and for many that's a lot of frames, but since they're not made anymore, should you continue to use them, exact replacements are getting harder and harder to come by. Especially factoring in condition and grip size preferences.

I've bought "new" frames, Dunlop HM200gs, Chinese Wilson PS85s, Wilson kPS88s......sadly I'm finding that I still prefer my Taiwanese PS85s.

My latest experiment is going from old school to old school. I'm trying out the Wilson Graphite Force.

Graphite Force is a solid stick; IMHO try out the Wilson Reflex if you can. Sweet stick! 12.5 oz and balanced like Nadia Comaneci in the zone....

VGP
09-03-2009, 07:30 AM
I have a Wilson Reflex. It's nice too.

Cosmetically, I'm not a fan of the narrower throat. It kinda makes the head look more bulbous.

I like the look of a majority black frame with an open throat look of the PS85.

The Wilson Graphite Force is like a PS85 without PWS and a slightly thicker profile. Nice familiar raw feel.

Actually I consider it the real 88. It's got a slightly bigger head than the PS85. It's between the PS85 and the kPS88 (the kPS88 has been measured by some on here as a 90).

VGP
09-03-2009, 07:50 AM
Y'know what, I'm surprised that no one's offered to buy Ripper014's three PS85s that he initially wanted to sell....

I still say don't do it.

At least not yet.

cadfael_tex
09-03-2009, 07:55 AM
Y'know what, I'm surprised that no one's offered to buy Ripper014's three PS85s that he initially wanted to sell....

I still say don't do it.

At least not yet.

Yeah, noticed that too. Owe it to the civility of the classic racquet folks :)

Ripper014
09-03-2009, 08:02 AM
Don't get my wrong I will always keep my 3-200g's and 3-PS 6.0 85, these have been my tournament frames in the past and like all of you I appreciate the frames and how they play.

As noted above I do have a complete game and can hit all the shots off of all sides with with pace and angles. My biggest problem is I have too many options to choose from when striking the ball. Sometimes I think it would be much easier to just hit a topspin backhand and forehand (no thinking).

Anyway... I am getting off topic. As men aren't we always looking for the next best thing? The worst thing to happen to me was moving to Dunlop Impact 95 for year... I was consistly hitting about 12 inches over the baseline. My serve, volleys and overhead improved slightly but my ground game suffered. Being the stubborn person I was I tried to work it out and instead I now have some bad habits that I am unable to break. ie flicking my wrist on my forehand to accelerate the racket head to generate additional topspin.

I have always been able to generate all the power I need with my long strokes and clean contact. This is why I am looking at what I believe are lower powered rackets the PS Tour 90, the Ncode 90 and the Six-One Tour 90.

Thanks for all the responses... as they definitely give me fruit for thought... maybe 3 PS 6.0 85 are not enough... lmao

Ripper014
09-03-2009, 08:04 AM
Y'know what, I'm surprised that no one's offered to buy Ripper014's three PS85s that he initially wanted to sell....

I still say don't do it.

At least not yet.



Actually I have had one personal email offering to trade for one of them... for a PS Tour 90

VGP
09-03-2009, 08:07 AM
Actually I have had one personal email offering to trade for one of them... for a PS Tour 90

Ah, never fails! :)

If you have St. Vincents in decent shape, it's not an even trade IMO.


How 'bout this.....

Buy a used but in good shape k90. Can be had for around $100. String it up with what you normally use, perhaps dabble a little in string setups. Try different string setups with one of your PS85s. Do a side by side comparison.

Go from there and see where it takes you.

dadozen
09-03-2009, 08:17 AM
Ah, never fails! :)

If you have St. Vincents in decent shape, it's not an even trade IMO.


How 'bout this.....

Buy a used but in good shape k90. Can be had for around $100. String it up with what you normally use, perhaps dabble a little in string setups. Try different string setups with one of your PS85s. Do a side by side comparison.

Go from there and see where it takes you.

This is one wise advice. Doing this you'll be able to clearly distinguish what will suit your game better: your old but classical frames, or a "modern" racquet.

tlimster
09-03-2009, 08:17 AM
I agree -- start with the K90. The n90 and PSTour 90 are harder to find and if you're switching to new, the K90 is available and may even get cheaper in Jan. when the new 90 whatever gets released. I'd also try the Prestige Mid and PB10Mid.

El Diablo
09-03-2009, 08:20 AM
"My biggest problem is that I have too many options to choose from when striking the ball".....uh, no, that's not your biggest problem.

Ripper014
09-03-2009, 08:23 AM
Ah, never fails! :)

If you have St. Vincents in decent shape, it's not an even trade IMO.


How 'bout this.....

Buy a used but in good shape k90. Can be had for around $100. String it up with what you normally use, perhaps dabble a little in string setups. Try different string setups with one of your PS85s. Do a side by side comparison.

Go from there and see where it takes you.


Thanks for the input... and you are probably right based on what I am seeing on **** it would not be an even trade. But I just want to do some testing without spending any more monies out of pocket.

The three rackets that I am considering selling are a little hard for me to identify since I did not purchase them new... and since I already had three servicable frames I have never used them. All three are in good condition... I would consider them a least 8 out of 10 but I guess each person would have their own opinions. I know the first is definitely not a St Vincent, it is a newer frame... but the other two seem to have a red primer... and one has a bumperless grommet strip. Like I said it is hard to tell because there are not a lot of flaws on the frame.

After seeing all the responses... my hearts says no don't do it... but my head keeps saying you want to test something new...

Hey to those of you with classic frames... have you ever noticed...? I let some play with my PS the other day... and did the racket head ever seem small in their hands. AND................... lol... did they ever hit the ball slow. All these large power players blunted with a classic frame. I am sure they would eventually adjust... but it was just funny to see. And then for them to say "how do you generate so much power with such a powerless racket".

canadave
09-03-2009, 08:25 AM
Anyway... I am getting off topic. As men aren't we always looking for the next best thing?
Yep, we as men always are, and therein lies the fallacy.

For instance, I'd always used a ProStaff Classic 6.1. Great, classic stick. I hit well with it. Then I said to myself, "maybe there's something EVEN BETTER out there." So I started looking at racquets with similar specs.

Then I realized...if the racquets I'm looking at buying all have similar specs, why not just keep using the ProStaff 6.1? ;)

Now, I eventually changed to the Gamma Tour 330X because I came to the conclusion that I needed a lighter racquet. If you're looking for something less heavy, then perhaps you should switch. But just to switch for the sake of switching, or thinking "there's something even better out there," probably isn't going to work :)

Ripper014
09-03-2009, 08:40 AM
Yep, we as men always are, and therein lies the fallacy.

For instance, I'd always used a ProStaff Classic 6.1. Great, classic stick. I hit well with it. Then I said to myself, "maybe there's something EVEN BETTER out there." So I started looking at racquets with similar specs.

Then I realized...if the racquets I'm looking at buying all have similar specs, why not just keep using the ProStaff 6.1? ;)

Now, I eventually changed to the Gamma Tour 330X because I came to the conclusion that I needed a lighter racquet. If you're looking for something less heavy, then perhaps you should switch. But just to switch for the sake of switching, or thinking "there's something even better out there," probably isn't going to work :)



I know in my head it does not make sense... but I want I want I want... weight should not be an issue since I have both my PS and 200g's well weighted with lead tape. The players I used to play with hit extremely heavy balls and I found that there was not enough mass in the standard frames.

Unfortunately change for the sake of change is sometime who I am... and as friends of mine would say... once I decide on something it is not if but when I am going to do it.

But polsters here have made a good point... that maybe I should look at the six-one more seriously... since if I eventually decide I like it, it would be easier to find. Plus with Federer changing frames there may be a flood of them on the market.

Ok now I am more confused then ever.... ;)

tlimster
09-03-2009, 08:52 AM
Changing from a 200G or PS85 at this point after x number of years is not really jumping on the racket change bandwagon, as some racketholics will attest. Sounds like a measured decision to me. Keep in mind that Sampras, Courier, Stich and Edberg all seemed to like the newer n90/k90 frames, not to mention Federer. I am guessing Wilson didn't take the time to paint their rackets since they're seniors now (if I'm wrong then someone will correct me). And the KPS88 doesn't seem to be that much off the PS85 either.

The k90 has one of the highest reviews I've ever seen on TW, if that makes a difference to you. For $20, I think, you could ask TW to weight the k90 exactly to how you weight your pro staff. Save you some time and headache and you can do an easy comparison.

MrAWD
09-03-2009, 09:32 AM
Just go out and demo as much as you like and then make a decision. I play with old school Redondo, and it is hard to match that kind of feel that you get from frames of that type!

Good luck!


Fedja

Classic_Obsession
09-03-2009, 10:20 AM
If you really want to try newer frames, I have a Prostaff Tour 90 in 4 1/2 grip.

I can trade for one of your "unidentifiable" PS85 :)
I'm not too concerned about whether it's ST. Vincent, Taiwan or chinese.

I've been meaning to try a PS85 but couldn't justify spending cash on it as I probably will not switch to it. (I like classics with a lil more power like POG, Yamaha Secret & Head Trisys 300) So if you are interested, email me at classicxobsession@yahoo.com

Ripper014
09-03-2009, 10:29 AM
Thanks... the problem is tennis is not what it used to be in the glory days of Mc Enroe, Connors, Borg, Vilas, Nastase, Laver, Rosewall.... etc etc etc...

I live in one of the largest cities in Canada and we have a handful of tennis specialty stores. The more general sports store carry a very small selection of frames. As for demo's they are are pretty much non-existant. Besides... you never get a true sense of a racket until you string and tweak it to your own preferences.

I feel my best option is to gather as much data as I can, make the best guess I can and then just take the plunge. Right now I am obviously in the information gathering process.

This thread has been a help to me... even though there is so far nothing I have not considered, it has enforced my thought process and expanded on things I had not fully explored.

Thanks again to all of you that have contributed in my travels down this path to a new racket, which in the end may take me back to where I started. But then again part of the trip is the journey isn't it..?

stevewcosta
09-04-2009, 05:42 AM
As others have said, keep your 6.0s. Buy used K90s because you'll end up selling anyway (they are not a 6.0 upgrade - heavier, less maneuverable, terrible feel). About the only thing it does better is slice backhands due to mass. The more I played with the K90, the more I'm convinced Fed. doesn't play with off-the-shelf K's---looks like a K but Wilson probably makes a higher quality rac. for Fed.

hoodjem
09-04-2009, 05:52 AM
Dear Old School,

You should definitely try the Dunlop Aerogel 100. It is a great all-court racquet, and coming off the 200G or PS 85, it will suit you game quite well.

It is being phased out, so it is on sale right now.

P.S. I was an old Wilson guy having played with them from the JK Pro Staff woodie through the PS 85 6.0 SV. You will love the AG100.

bee
09-04-2009, 07:06 AM
Try a made in Austria Head PT 280. You'll have to buy one used on you-know-where, but they can be found. I have played with the racquets you've mentioned, and prefer the PT 280. It's a really great all around all court racquet. Does everything well, and it's easy on the arm. Highly recommended.

schu47
09-04-2009, 07:17 AM
Hey Ripper,

I think you should take advantage of the racquet demo program here at Tennis Warehouse. That's what I did, more than once, and it's very instructive.

Just browse through the various manufacturers, find up to four frames you think you might like, and order them up. You get them in a couple of days, assuming they are in stock, and get to keep them for a week. Then you just pop them back in the box, put on the return sticker that they send along, and drop them at a UPS store.

Easy as pie, and it only costs the postage -- about $20.

That way, you can give Wilson, Volkl, Yonex or some other frames a true trial, to see if there's something out there you might like more than your old classics.

Who knows, you might find you like the old ones best, but at least you'll have satisfied your curiosity. And it beats putting out $100 for some racquet you might want to try and then find out you don't like it.

Plus it's fun to get those racquets in the mail and take them to the court. Kind of like Christmas.

Good luck.

rev200g
09-04-2009, 08:40 AM
I agree with Hoodjem, you should be trying out the player's line of racquets from Dunlop especially the Aerogel 4d 200. I, too took a long break from tennis (7 years) and when I got back into the game in 2006, I kept using my Dunlop Revelation 200g.

In fact, I tried out the newer frames such as the Muscle Weave 200g, the 300g, Mfil 200 and Aerogel 200 but still felt the Revelation 200g superior overall. Then came the Aerogel 4D 200 this year which gave up a bit of power and stiffness but is overall more comfortable, has more feel and is controllable and solid. Take advantage of the demo programs available. You never know until you try them out.

I live in Vancouver and there are few dedicated tennis stores here as well. Good luck!

PS: I would still keep your classics for those days when you want to relive the past! I still do with a Yonex R22 which I used to play with in the 80's!

UD1
09-04-2009, 08:52 AM
I'm in the same predicament as you. Absent from the game for the last 23 years. Bought a couple KPS88's in pursuit of the latest and greatest. After playing with them for a couple of months I'm still not sure if I like them as much as my old PS85. The PS85 is getting strung right now so I can do a direct comparison.

My advice to you would be to keep you're old racquets and take advantage of TW demo program. Do a comparison and find out which frames suit you best.

Good luck!

MrAWD
09-04-2009, 09:07 AM
One thing to worry about the demos is the quality of the strings they come with. My resent demo set of 4 racquets from TW was a disaster to say the least! All four where pretty close in specs, so I was hoping for some decent comparison and eventual purchase (for the selected one) of two or three frames.

But, all four frames came with different strings at different tensions. One of them had string just about to pop and they where moving so much! The other had such a pinging sound and produced no power whatsoever (which is a lot for me playing with Redondo Mid). Any kind of comparison was impossible and it was complete waste of time and money!

If you are going to demo, I would try to make sure that what you are getting is on the same playing field strings wise!

Fedja

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 10:05 AM
Totally agree with MrAWD in that demo frames never give a true representation of what the final product is going to play like.

When playing regular I used to string my 200g's and PS 6.0 85 at 72lbs... I have fast long strokes and always felt that ball stayed on my racket face too long.

I have been in contact with a few forum members that have offered to trade me my PS 6.0 85 for a PS Tour 90, I know its not really a straight up trade but I am pondering the offers. I need to package one up and get an idea of how much it is going to cost me to ship from Canada to the US. If I feel it is cost prohibitive I will have to decline... if not I may just pull the trigger. I will still have 3 PS 6.0 85 in my arsenel that I can use if I decide to go back to it as my everyday racket.

I have had one more thought... there is another racket that has perked my interest, only because I hear it is similar to the 200g in playability and that would be the Maxply McEnroe. I have a third PS 6.0 85 that I might be willing to give up... I believe it is a Chicago or a St Vincent... has no bumper on the grommet strip and appears to have a red primer... not sure if I am allowed to ask in this forum... but would trading this frame for 3 Maxply McEnroes be out of line? I noticed that someone was selling 4 of them for $150 so 3 seemed reasonable.

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 10:24 AM
for rev200g

I purchased a R-22 for my girlfriend at the time in the early 80's... huge head on it... with a really soft feel. I was always afraid of breaking it, one of the guys on my club team used to break the R-27 ??? on a regular basis and it was a stiffer frame.

Wasn't the R-22 Martina Navratilova's racket of choice in the 80's?

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 02:06 PM
Just a quick update... I have pulled the trigger and traded two forum members for a pair of Pro Staff Tour 90's... I know I could probably of done better... but hopefully it will be a win win situation for all of us.

Hmmmmmmm... still thinking of the Maxply's

VGP
09-04-2009, 02:16 PM
I hope you like your "new" frames.

Keep us posted on your experience.

BTW - I had a feeling you were gonna part with some of your PS85s. You sounded like you really wanted something new.

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 02:33 PM
Thanks VGP...

Like I said earlier in my post once something is in my head it is hard to stop me. Besides like I said I will always have the 3 - PS 6.0 85 that have been in my personal arsenel.

However I do have one racket left that is that is right up your alley... it is bumperless with a red primer coat, got some Maxply's...?

:)

VGP
09-04-2009, 02:45 PM
Actually I do. What's your grip size?

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 02:52 PM
Oh oh............. I use a 4-1/2 grip. If you are serious about this we should probably take it off this forum. I believe my personal email is in my profile.

VGP
09-04-2009, 02:59 PM
Sorry, I've got one in 4 1/4 and two in 4 3/8 grip size.....

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 03:02 PM
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo close... thanks anyway. Well I look forward to trying the PS Tour 90's and will consider the opportunity if some Maxply McEnroe's show up in the Trade forums...

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 04:26 PM
Hey VGP since you are a diehard PS 6.0 85 user and I have your attention can I get your opinion on the Maxply McEnroe?

VGP
09-04-2009, 04:38 PM
Some people have described the recent Dunlop Maxply McEnroe as a PS85 with a bigger head. I can sort of see where they get that.

The Maxply's nice and stiff and does have a nice open string pattern for imparting spin. Plus it coming stock with a terrific Dunlop leather grip is great.

I feel that it's a bit too crisp and the balance for me feels a bit wonky. I only say that because I prefer my rackets more headlight. I guess they wanted it more of an even balanced frame to get that hefty swingweight with a lower static weight. It's not hollow or tinny or anything, it just doesn't feel substantial enough.

Perhaps if I tried an all gut stringjob (a la JMac himself) I could really reap the benefits of the frame, both in comfort and performance.

If you do a search on it, you'll see a few threads where players have complained of getting tennis elbow while using the Maxply McEnroe. That could be due to the stiffness and the balance......

I just haven't played it enough to see if injury would creep in. Not that I would want that at all.

Ripper014
09-04-2009, 04:47 PM
After posting I checked out the TW site and they actually have a few used ones for sale... tempting... though I really shouldn't spend any more money out of pocket... but tempting.

I was not aware the headsize was so big either, but my brain is now working overtime trying to justify buying them. When I get lazy I always pull out the 200g's and basically kind of bunt my way around the court with spins, angles and tight placements (a la McEnroe).

Now that I have the PS Tour 90 as my new toys I feel like I want something new to be lazy with, like I said tempting...

ztennis002
09-05-2009, 05:38 AM
Get the k pro staff 88 if you want to try something new

Ripper014
09-09-2009, 09:10 PM
Get the k pro staff 88 if you want to try something new

Considered it but it didn't seem much of a change from what I have... PS 6.0 88

Love the PJ on the PS Tour 90 and with a slightly larger head I thought I would try that instead... Thanks to two forum members I should have some in my hands shortly.

Ripper014
09-09-2009, 09:14 PM
I recently switched (after 15 years) from Donnay Pro One's to Babolat Pure Storm Tours. I was very skeptical as I know you are, however after about 2 hours, I was dialed in and pounding serves, returns, and knifing volleys.

Don't worry, step up and take a chance....

In the past I have upgraded to a 95 square inch racket, and I had no problems dialing in my serve, returns and volleys... but I really struggled with my groundstrokes... I have long fast strokes and found I hit everything about a foot long.

The smaller less powerful frames seem to suit my game much better, hence my interest in the PS Tour 90. I also have an interest in the Maxply McEnroe, mainly because of what I have read on the forums. At 100 sq/in it could be more than I can handle... but with TW selling them so cheap I am tempted.