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View Full Version : Change Winter Nat'l to Indoor Nat'l?


papatenis
09-10-2009, 08:40 AM
I would like to see the USTA change the Winter Super Nat'l to an Indoor Super Nat'l. 16's and 18's are held in Phoenix, AZ. 12 and 14's in Tucson, AZ. I like both cities but it is way to cold during the tournaments. Early morning matches are soo cold that there is frost on your car. Tucson is not as bad as Phoenix, but it is still very cold.
Why?, nat'l clay courts give an advantage to sections in Florida, and the south, while nat'l hardcourts give an advantage to sun belt sections. It would only seem fair that middle and east coast sections get some advantage with indoor courts.

tennismom42
09-10-2009, 12:05 PM
I would like to see the USTA change the Winter Super Nat'l to an Indoor Super Nat'l. 16's and 18's are held in Phoenix, AZ. 12 and 14's in Tucson, AZ. I like both cities but it is way to cold during the tournaments. Early morning matches are soo cold that there is frost on your car. Tucson is not as bad as Phoenix, but it is still very cold.
Why?, nat'l clay courts give an advantage to sections in Florida, and the south, while nat'l hardcourts give an advantage to sun belt sections. It would only seem fair that middle and east coast sections get some advantage with indoor courts.Papatenis, you're going to find that almost nothing is fair in USTA tennis. There are many reasons why Serena & Venus just skipped it altogether. It would be nice to have a national indoor event. I vaguely recall they existed a long time ago. The Phoenix & Tucson sites are a mess (too cold and become run down) There are many cold-weather states that have marvelous indoor facilities that could accommodate a level 1 event. The problem is that the sites must apply for it & they don't. They make excellent money during the winter months, from paying members. They can't just oust the members for 7-10 days in the middle of winter, to host a level 1 SN. Also, many tournaments "belong" to the tournament director & they can host the event anywhere they want.

Write a letter to the USTA, asking for a SN indoor.

papatenis
09-10-2009, 01:51 PM
Write a letter to the USTA, asking for a SN indoor.

What about the new 60 million dollar indoor courts at the US Open site? (Flushing Meadows)
Well that makes sense that the indoor facilities would lose money if they held an Nat'l tournament.

kme5150
09-10-2009, 02:11 PM
It would be nice but I doubt if it will ever happen.

Every year they get numerous emails about the weather down there and they pretty much could care less.

10isDad
09-10-2009, 02:28 PM
I may be biased, but disagree with some of the viewpoints.

The courts for the boys 18s are suspect - actually, the courts themselves are fine but they use corrugated plastic for windscreens so viewing can be difficult.

The main site for the girls 18s is fine. The site for the girl's 16s is in good shape, but it's Rebound Ace at one site and post-tension concrete at one of the back-up sites.

The newer courts for the boys 16s are great but the remaining courts have horrible viewing. The 12s/14s sites in Tucson are pretty decent although you can get some odd bounces at El Con.

Remember, there is a large new facility in Surprise that has great courts, great viewing. It's pretty far away from most everything, however. The TD should probably be emailed by those concerned about the current facilities to inquire/pressure for a change in venue.

There are also rumors of another very large facility to be built in the southeast Valley.

As for the weather, once the sun's up it's a relative non-issue - in fact, it's some of the most glorious winter weather you'll find. After 9:00 am it's shorts/short sleeve weather.

10isRocs
09-10-2009, 04:12 PM
I may be biased, but disagree with some of the viewpoints.

The courts for the boys 18s are suspect - actually, the courts themselves are fine but they use corrugated plastic for windscreens so viewing can be difficult.

The main site for the girls 18s is fine. The site for the girl's 16s is in good shape, but it's Rebound Ace at one site and post-tension concrete at one of the back-up sites.

The newer courts for the boys 16s are great but the remaining courts have horrible viewing. The 12s/14s sites in Tucson are pretty decent although you can get some odd bounces at El Con.

Remember, there is a large new facility in Surprise that has great courts, great viewing. It's pretty far away from most everything, however. The TD should probably be emailed by those concerned about the current facilities to inquire/pressure for a change in venue.

There are also rumors of another very large facility to be built in the southeast Valley.

As for the weather, once the sun's up it's a relative non-issue - in fact, it's some of the most glorious winter weather you'll find. After 9:00 am it's shorts/short sleeve weather.

At 8 am matches this last year they were using blowers to melt the ice on the courts....literally freezing:shock:

mrmo1115
09-10-2009, 05:26 PM
I Totally Agree!

As a NY'er we should be able to have an advantage at least one of the supers ! Make the Winter Natl's to Indoor Nat'ls !

T10s747
09-10-2009, 07:35 PM
As for the weather, once the sun's up it's a relative non-issue - in fact, it's some of the most glorious winter weather you'll find. After 9:00 am it's shorts/short sleeve weather.

The weather is a major issue. Early morning is ridiculous. Late matches are played in low 40s for crissakes! They use to have an indoor national in the Boston area where they have the National Open 16s over Thanksgiving. The tennis linesmen said they recall Agassi playing in it.

scraps234
09-10-2009, 09:21 PM
wow.... tucson and phoenx are some of the hottest places in america... im sure the sun could melt that ice in no time

SoCal10s
09-10-2009, 10:05 PM
I Totally Agree!

As a NY'er we should be able to have an advantage at least one of the supers ! Make the Winter Natl's to Indoor Nat'ls !


are you serious? you guys got better than one super ,it's called the US Open..:)

10isDad
09-11-2009, 05:31 AM
The weather is a major issue. Early morning is ridiculous. Late matches are played in low 40s for crissakes!

Wimps!!! (just kidding). This goes back partially to my other statement about the facilities. If the Surprise facility (or some other alternate facilities) were used in conjunction with the current facilities, perhaps matches wouldn't have to be held in the early morning. You mention "late matches". Looking at last year's draw the latest scheduled matches were around 4 p.m. (doubles). Out of curiousity I checked the Phoenix weather on Day 1 (12/27) which was unseasonably cold (day 2 was similar, though afternoon temps were about 8 degrees warmer):

08:00 - 34F - pretty chilly
09:00 - 38F
12:00 - 43F
16:00 - 51
19:00 - 48

However, day 3 weather is pretty indicative of Phoenix weather

December 29, 2008:

08:00 - 40F
09:00 - 52F
12:00 - 59F
16:00 - 72F
19:00 - 66F

Kids are tough. It's likely the parents that are more affected. Heck, I've watched pro tournaments played at night where the temperature was in the "low 40s for crissakes!". I've sat in the stands during night matches at Indian Wells when the temperature was in the 40s.


In my opinion, it could be worse. Try playing in the Tucson/Phoenix area in the summer when it's 112F in the air and on-court radiant temperatures are in the 140+F neighborhood.

papatenis
09-11-2009, 08:35 AM
.
The 12s/14s sites in Tucson are pretty decent although you can get some odd bounces at El Con.



I was shocked to find the courts in Tucson were made of asphalt. Alot of the courts had big cracks.
What is the reason for using asphalt for courts in Tuscon?

Tom C
09-11-2009, 09:53 AM
It has been discussed by the USTA and they are seriously thinking of bringing back the Indoor Super Nationals. It will take a few years and I don't know if it will replace the Winter Nationals or if it would be a Super National onto itself.
I would like to see the USTA change the Winter Super Nat'l to an Indoor Super Nat'l. 16's and 18's are held in Phoenix, AZ. 12 and 14's in Tucson, AZ. I like both cities but it is way to cold during the tournaments. Early morning matches are soo cold that there is frost on your car. Tucson is not as bad as Phoenix, but it is still very cold.
Why?, nat'l clay courts give an advantage to sections in Florida, and the south, while nat'l hardcourts give an advantage to sun belt sections. It would only seem fair that middle and east coast sections get some advantage with indoor courts.

papatenis
09-11-2009, 10:55 AM
It has been discussed by the USTA and they are seriously thinking of bringing back the Indoor Super Nationals. It will take a few years and I don't know if it will replace the Winter Nationals or if it would be a Super National onto itself.

GREAT!, by the way, where did you get that information?

Tom C
09-11-2009, 03:49 PM
GREAT!, by the way, where did you get that information?
I don't want to mislead anyone, it's still in discussion... it's just talk at the moment. My source is within the USTA.

T10s747
09-11-2009, 04:46 PM
It has been discussed by the USTA and they are seriously thinking of bringing back the Indoor Super Nationals. It will take a few years and I don't know if it will replace the Winter Nationals or if it would be a Super National onto itself.

Yes, of course, Just add it to schedule so the rich can travel to more tournaments with weaker draws to squeeze out more points all in the guise of encouraging more tournamnent play, haha!

papatenis
09-11-2009, 06:24 PM
I don't want to mislead anyone, it's still in discussion... it's just talk at the moment. My source is within the USTA.

Does your contact within the USTA know that there are many unhappy USTA members, regarding junior tennis? Do you know if any official at USTA read "Talk Tennis"? Thanks

Tom C
09-11-2009, 06:44 PM
Yes, of course, Just add it to schedule so the rich can travel to more tournaments with weaker draws to squeeze out more points all in the guise of encouraging more tournamnent play, haha!

I'm not always on the USTA bandwagon but there are people within the organization that would like the following:
Reduce the number of tournaments on the National Junior Tournament Schedule
Encourage smaller draw sizes
Earn advancement to a higher level primarily through play in the Sections
Consider cost as a major factor when granting sanctions
Also, they are considering creating more space in the calendar for training

Does this mean it's going to happen? No, there are layers and layers of people making decisions at the USTA before it gets to those who make the final decisions.

T10s747
09-11-2009, 08:16 PM
I'm not always on the USTA bandwagon but there are people within the organization that would like the following:
Reduce the number of tournaments on the National Junior Tournament Schedule
Encourage smaller draw sizes
Earn advancement to a higher level primarily through play in the Sections
Consider cost as a major factor when granting sanctions
Also, they are considering creating more space in the calendar for training

Does this mean it's going to happen? No, there are layers and layers of people making decisions at the USTA before it gets to those who make the final decisions.

Agree with all of the above. Lower the points on those meaningless Level 3 Nationals to below Designated Sectionals to stop point chasing for those with money. Limit Supernational draw sizes to 128, the rest of the 64 don't qualify to be there. Compete through sectionals to earn qualification to Supernationals. This would lower the overall cost and limit the money chase for points.