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raiden031
09-15-2009, 07:44 AM
Anyone think the response to Serena's behavior is overreaction? Possibly losing USO prize money. Possibly being banned from AO. This is getting out of hand. Yes she deserved to lose the match on a point penalty. Yes she deserves to be fined for threatening a linesperson. No she doesn't deserve to lose her prize money ($350,000) or be banned from the sport for any amount of time. That is excessive. McEnroe and Connors have been known to belittle chair umpires and get away with it. People need to get over it, because its not the end of the world. She lost her cool as the match was slipping away. Big deal we are human.

r2473
09-15-2009, 07:56 AM
This morning I saw her dragging a large wooden cross down the street and wearing what appeared to be a crown of thorns.

JoshDragon
09-15-2009, 07:59 AM
Anyone think the response to Serena's behavior is overreaction? Possibly losing USO prize money. Possibly being banned from AO. This is getting out of hand. Yes she deserved to lose the match on a point penalty. Yes she deserves to be fined for threatening a linesperson. No she doesn't deserve to lose her prize money or be banned from the sport for any amount of time. That is excessive. McEnroe and Connors have been known to belittle chair umpires and get away with it. People need to get over it, because its not the end of the world. She lost her cool as the match was slipping away. Big deal we are human.

McEnroe and Connors behaved like that back in the 70s and 80s. The game has changed a lot since then and you can't get away with the same things today.

I don't think that the people do need to get over it. I mean what would it say about the US Open, if they allowed their top performers to make obscene comments to the lines judges and the chair umpire? It says that they have no respect for those officials, who are trying to do their own job.

They won't even penalize that player and they're pretty much encouraging other players, to do the same thing, because they will be able to get away with it too.

Btw, it wasn't just at the end of the match that Serena was out of control. She was out of control from the very end of the first set when she smashed her racquet.

raiden031
09-15-2009, 08:01 AM
McEnroe and Connors behaved like that back in the 70s and 80s. The game has changed a lot since then and you can't get away with the same things today.

I don't think that the people do need to get over it. I mean what would it say about the US Open, if they allowed their top performers to make obscene comments to the lines judges and the chair umpire? It says that they have no respect for those officials, who are trying to do their own job.

They won't even penalize that player and they're pretty much encouraging other players, to do the same thing, becuase yhey will be able to get away with it.

Btw, it wasn't just at the end of the match that Serena was out of control. She was out of control from the very end of the first set when she smashed her racquet.

As I said, she deserved punishment. Hell even if it wasn't match point, I think defaulting her would've been ok given the threatening nature of her outburst.

But to consider the idea to ban her from future events or take away her prize money for the entire event is ridiculous. Why don't they file criminal charges while they are at it?

JoshDragon
09-15-2009, 08:04 AM
As I said, she deserved punishment. Hell even if it wasn't match point, I think defaulting her would've been ok given the threatening nature of her outburst.

But to consider the idea to ban her from future events or take away her prize money for the entire event is ridiculous. Why don't they file criminal charges while they are at it?

That's ok with me. I don't really disagree with that but you had used examples of McEnroe and Connors in your first post and I don't feel they should be used to excuse Serena's behavior. McEnroe and Connors should have been fined for a lot of what they said as well but unfortunately they weren't.

goober
09-15-2009, 08:17 AM
Anyone think the response to Serena's behavior is overreaction? Possibly losing USO prize money. Possibly being banned from AO. This is getting out of hand. Yes she deserved to lose the match on a point penalty. Yes she deserves to be fined for threatening a linesperson. No she doesn't deserve to lose her prize money ($350,000) or be banned from the sport for any amount of time. That is excessive. McEnroe and Connors have been known to belittle chair umpires and get away with it. People need to get over it, because its not the end of the world. She lost her cool as the match was slipping away. Big deal we are human.

I thought Jmac got banned for several months in addition to being defaulted in the 1990 AUS Open? I know Tarango got banned for 2 grand slam events for his outbursts. For the record I don't think she should get banned, but just because people got a way with things in the past years ago doesn't mean that all similar behavior should be excused today.

AR15
09-15-2009, 08:19 AM
I think the general mood is that everyone is sick and tired of seeing the "elite" get away with everything. It goes from Wall Streeters, to Corporate CEO's to pro athletes.

These people are all making the huge bucks and the public expects a better role model type behavior.

raiden031
09-15-2009, 08:23 AM
I think the general mood is that everyone is sick and tired of seeing the "elite" get away with everything. It goes from Wall Streeters, to Corporate CEO's to pro athletes.

These people are all making the huge bucks and the public expects a better role model type behavior.

She didn't get away with it by the fact that she was fined, penalized and lost the match. The punishment should fit the crime. She lost her cool. She didn't physically assult someone. She didn't cheat.

1138s
09-15-2009, 08:30 AM
I think you have to consider what she said. If she did say "I will kill you" or " I am going to **** shove this **** ball down your throat are verbal threats which Connors and Mac never made. Yes they threw tirades and cursed out judges but never verbal threats. Granted Serena would never carry those threats out, but no one should be allowed to get away with verbal abuse let alone verbal threats. Mac and Connor should have been penalized in their heyday but just because they weren't does not excuse Serena. Athletes are human and loosing one's temper is normal, but what Serena did went beyond the call.

amx13
09-15-2009, 08:33 AM
Had she said "Im so sorry about what I said to the judge" in the press conference, there would be a lot less heat on her. The way he handled the press conference made things a lot worse. Poor damage control.

MagPro
09-15-2009, 08:33 AM
Has the kill you part ever been confirmed?

bhallic24
09-15-2009, 08:36 AM
Has the kill you part ever been confirmed?

my problem with cbs is they never released the full tapes. If they did we'd know exactly what she said after the i'll ****ing shove my balls down your throat part.

i wouldn't doubt that she said she'd kill her. Seemed a little upset at the time. know what i'm saying?

raiden031
09-15-2009, 08:39 AM
my problem with cbs is they never released the full tapes. If they did we'd know exactly what she said after the i'll ****ing shove my balls down your throat part.

i wouldn't doubt that she said she'd kill her. Seemed a little upset at the time. know what i'm saying?

It doesn't really matter. Everyone knows she wasn't going to kill the linesperson but was just frustrated that she got called on a footfault when she's on the verge of losing the match anyways. The context for the outburst should mean more than simply the words that were spoken.

I don't see why its necessary to take this punishment to such a level being discussed. It is excessive, plain and simple.

bhallic24
09-15-2009, 08:42 AM
It doesn't really matter. Everyone knows she wasn't going to kill the linesperson but was just frustrated that she got called on a footfault when she's on the verge of losing the match anyways. The context for the outburst should mean more than simply the words that were spoken.

I don't see why its necessary to take this punishment to such a level being discussed. It is excessive, plain and simple.

How does it not matter what she said? If I came over to your house and said "I'm gonna shove these balls down your throat" vs. "I'm going to ****ing kill you". That's completely different. If you reported me to the police, they wouldn't even care about it if I said the first thing.

bhallic24
09-15-2009, 08:48 AM
Like I said, context means everything. If you came to my house and said that it would be like a real threat. What happens in the heat of a final at a grand slam tennis match is completely different.

yea but what you don't think oj didn't murder his wife in "the heat of the moment"??? Serena was definitely in the heat of the moment, true I'd be shocked to see her kill the lady but I wouldn't have been surprised at all that night if she went over and smacked her in the head with her racket. Wouldn't be surprised at all.

raiden031
09-15-2009, 08:53 AM
yea but what you don't think oj didn't murder his wife in "the heat of the moment"??? Serena was definitely in the heat of the moment, true I'd be shocked to see her kill the lady but I wouldn't have been surprised at all that night if she went over and smacked her in the head with her racket. Wouldn't be surprised at all.

Well until Serena physically assaults this woman or further threatens her verbally, I will continue to say that the media (and many boardmembers) are overreacting.

Cindysphinx
09-15-2009, 08:54 AM
I'm right there with you, Raiden.

It's over. The punishment has fit the crime already.

Although . . . .

It would be a lot of fun if they simply denied her a seed for the AO. Make her play her way through.

You know, I don't know why so many people in our society have such a hard time saying, "I'm sorry." If Serena had simply owned this in her press conference, she might not have even received the fine she received, and the whole thing would have ended right there.

split-step
09-15-2009, 08:58 AM
Of course it's an overreaction.

See how the crowd booed Patrick MacEnroe during the Doubles Final Ceremony when he kept asking Serena if she had anything else to say about what happened.

Once Venus said 'Patrick, I think the crowd is trying to tell you, it's time to move on' they cheered wildly.

It has been taken too far.
She apologised for her actions. She is human.
She has been penalised and there is an investigation pending.
Let it go. It's time to move on

Moose Malloy
09-15-2009, 08:58 AM
Jim Courier violently shook the umpire's chair as he walked by for a changeover during a match in 1993 & was not suspended(or even defaulted)


I thought Jmac got banned for several months in addition to being defaulted in the 1990 AUS Open? I know Tarango got banned for 2 grand slam events for his outbursts.

What Tarango did was worse, walking off the court during a match is a pretty big deal(& was unprecedented)

Technically all Serena got was 2 code violations. Many players have done that. And in the past on court microphones were not as sharp, I can't make out what Mac or Jimmy are saying to linesman in half the matches I've seen with them. There was no way to 'investigate' further after a match back then.

And no, Mac was not suspended from any majors after his default in 1990. Agassi didn't receive any suspension when he was defaulted twice(in '96 & '99)

chess9
09-15-2009, 08:58 AM
Reactions were all over the board. I don't have a count on the number of over-reactions or under-reactions, but I think the punishments so far have fit the crime.

I also think it's time to forgive Serena inasmuch as she's apologized.

-Robert

split-step
09-15-2009, 08:59 AM
It would be a lot of fun if they simply denied her a seed for the AO. Make her play her way through.


That's not punishment for Serena. That's just punishment for the seeds she would face early. See AO 07.

rommil
09-15-2009, 09:00 AM
This morning I saw her dragging a large wooden cross down the street and wearing what appeared to be a crown of thorns.

Only because they told her at the end of the street there's a McDonalds.

raiden031
09-15-2009, 09:01 AM
She has been penalised and there is an investigation pending.


What the heck is there to investigate? Whether there is any possibility that she would carry out her threat of shoving a tennis ball down the lineswoman's throat?

I can see them confiscating her home computer to see if she recently googled 'how to pry open someone's mouth real wide'.

split-step
09-15-2009, 09:03 AM
What the heck is there to investigate? Whether there is any possibility that she would carry out her threat of shoving a tennis ball down the lineswoman's throat?

I can see them confiscating her home computer to see if she recently googled 'how to pry open someone's mouth real wide'.

LOL

10 char.

Cindysphinx
09-15-2009, 09:07 AM
LOL

10 char.

+1. You guys are in rare form today! LOL!

bhallic24
09-15-2009, 09:07 AM
What the heck is there to investigate? Whether there is any possibility that she would carry out her threat of shoving a tennis ball down the lineswoman's throat?

I can see them confiscating her home computer to see if she recently googled 'how to pry open someone's mouth real wide'.

they're investigating whether or not she actually does have balls to shove down the linesman's throat. Preliminary genetic testing is pointing to a yes according to sources inside the USTA.

rommil
09-15-2009, 09:09 AM
Anyone think the response to Serena's behavior is overreaction? Possibly losing USO prize money. Possibly being banned from AO. This is getting out of hand. Yes she deserved to lose the match on a point penalty. Yes she deserves to be fined for threatening a linesperson. No she doesn't deserve to lose her prize money ($350,000) or be banned from the sport for any amount of time. That is excessive. McEnroe and Connors have been known to belittle chair umpires and get away with it. People need to get over it, because its not the end of the world. She lost her cool as the match was slipping away. Big deal we are human.

Times have changed if you didn't notice. Plus the tirades that Mac and Connors did, ok they belittled umpires and linespersons but I don't remember them stating anything that would indicate bodily harm and threat. The USTA might let Serena slide because she is one of their cash cows (pun intended as well), but it wouldn't be so surprising if other tournaments outside of the US are looking into it. I really think she should serve somekind of suspension.

rommil
09-15-2009, 09:11 AM
What the heck is there to investigate? Whether there is any possibility that she would carry out her threat of shoving a tennis ball down the lineswoman's throat?

I can see them confiscating her home computer to see if she recently googled 'how to pry open someone's mouth real wide'.

Of coure they are going to say they need to investigate to buy time to let Serena play in the dubs finals.
Serena doesn't need to google that. When it comes to shoving things down her throat, she wrote that article.

goober
09-15-2009, 09:21 AM
And no, Mac was not suspended from any majors after his default in 1990. Agassi didn't receive any suspension when he was defaulted twice(in '96 & '99)

Read what I wrote. I never said Mac got a suspension from a major only Tarango did. BTW Mac was suspended for 2 months, but it was in 1987.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/07/sports/mcenroe-draws-fine-suspension.html

Moose Malloy
09-15-2009, 09:29 AM
BTW Mac was suspended for 2 months, but it was in 1987.


That was for going over the fine limit, not specifically for his actions in that match(I have it on tape btw & the outbursts were not on camera, only on changeovers, so the fans didn't get the chance to dissect it like they have with Serena)

Lendl also got an automatic 2 month suspension for going over the fine limit one year. I don't know if either tour still has any rules on that.

boredone3456
09-15-2009, 09:35 AM
While I am not sure about suspension (Serena doesn't play a ton of non slam tennis anyway and she would lose no points really between now and the Australian even with a suspension), I think the fine could have been a bit bigger, $10,500 is nothing compared to what she won at the US Open and is a drop in the bucket for Serena. As for losing the match, Serena was mentally on the edge the entire time and as the situation resulted in double match point for Clijsters, Serena could have and likely would have lost the match anyway. I mean, the odd of her hitting a UE, which her game is full of, were pretty much even with the odds of hitting a winner, 50/50 shot. Higher fine in my opinion, suspension...I dunno about that.

As for whether she did or not, the little footage I have seen is very tough to actually tell, as and for the commentators, sorry but I really don't know whether I trust them since many of them worship Serena anyway. But regardless of whether it was a foot fault, swearing at a linesperson and threatening bodily harm, even in "the heat of the moment" is completely uncalled for and punishment was needed, whether it was enough I Don't think it was, but that is just my opinion.

THUNDERVOLLEY
09-15-2009, 09:42 AM
Anyone think the response to Serena's behavior is overreaction? Possibly losing USO prize money. Possibly being banned from AO. This is getting out of hand. Yes she deserved to lose the match on a point penalty. Yes she deserves to be fined for threatening a linesperson. No she doesn't deserve to lose her prize money ($350,000) or be banned from the sport for any amount of time. That is excessive. McEnroe and Connors have been known to belittle chair umpires and get away with it. People need to get over it, because its not the end of the world. She lost her cool as the match was slipping away. Big deal we are human.

Agreed, and as noted in another thread, Hewitt's tirade was seen for what it was: stated, clear-as-day racism in action against Blake and a linesperson. but who called for punitive action? Was he fined or ejected from the USO? Not at all--only screaming out the hypocrisy of the ever-so-tolerant tennis PTB for a racist act, but acting like the crime of the century was committed in this Serena non-event.

goober
09-15-2009, 09:43 AM
That was for going over the fine limit, not specifically for his actions in that match(I have it on tape btw)
.

Yes but his fines were for his behavior. The first fine was for unsportsmanlike behavior and the second for verbal abuse. No matter how you try to spin it, he was suspended for his behavior. Are you against suspensions for behavior related issues? Fines to me mean nothing for the top players. Only the lower level players are hurt by a $10,000 fine. If suspensions were heavier I think we would see a great reduction in the number of cases of unsportsmanlike conduct towards linespersons and umpires.

dukemunson
09-15-2009, 10:09 AM
The fine system is ridiculous. You get the same fines for breaking rackets in futures and challengers as you do in ATP, where the prize money is 1000 times higher. Serena deserves to lose her entire check, but not be pulled from any future slams. What she did was ridiculous and terrible, and should be punished (taking her out of the AO would be over the top). The arguments for "heat of the moment" and "true competitor" are ridiculous and dumb. What she said to an umpire would have led to at least a year ban (if not lifetime) for any future or challenger player, and probably at least a few months for any player not in the top 10. Her reaction afterword said it all. She didn't apologize, in fact she was amazed that someone was suggesting that she should apologize and claimed she didn't remember what she said. Thankfully only a few people showed up for the doubles final, as Serena truly does not deserve or warrant the price of admission anymore...no matter how many people would have liked to boo her.

AR15
09-15-2009, 11:03 AM
Raiden,

If you talk to people that umpire junior tennis or coach, the way this is handled is a big deal. Many juniors are already problems because of bad parenting or misguided parents. As a result, the behavior displayed on court by many juniors is all too often abhorrent. These kids need to know that such behavior is not tolerated at the highest levels.

FiveO
09-15-2009, 11:28 AM
I find it ironic that the tone of many of the posts in this thread border on painting Serena as a victim.

5

baek57
09-15-2009, 11:32 AM
I wonder what kind of punishment Kobe would receive if he threatened a referee like that. By comparison, Radmanovic got fined $500,000 just because he felt like snowboarding.

EP1998
09-15-2009, 11:38 AM
What she said to an umpire would have led to at least a year ban (if not lifetime) for any future or challenger player, and probably at least a few months for any player not in the top 10.

Do you have any examples? I've heard a lot of crazy stories (and observed some myself) but I'm trying to think if I know of anyone who has been banned for doing that.

EP1998
09-15-2009, 11:42 AM
One thing I find odd about this whole deal is that no one has mentioned the previous incident (the problem with the official in the Capriati match). Serena didn't flip out then. I'm sure it took some time to get over that when it happened - and I'm sure she has played it out over and over in her head - what would she do if it happened again, etc.. So back there in her mind is some unresolved emotion and she just snapped. She's had a couple of incidents (the Henin hand thing, other taunting). Not saying that excuses it, but could be a reason someone with no history of going nuts suddenly does so.

rafan
09-15-2009, 11:44 AM
There are no Macs and Jimmies left around now. Our male players are deadly serious and therefore any outburst is isolated and thoroughly examined. I think Serena is the nearest we get to that era of the letting it all hang out and say what you think. So maybe it wasn't such a shock. It's interesting to know just how people in this world would react in the kind of situation our tennis players are in day after day in all weathers and time zone changes, having to give everything they have got for that elusive point, and try and stay sane at the same time

AR15
09-15-2009, 11:55 AM
It's interesting to know just how people in this world would react in the kind of situation our tennis players are in day after day in all weathers and time zone changes, having to give everything they have got for that elusive point, and try and stay sane at the same time

That's why they are getting the big bucks.

I'd hate to see how they react over the stresses of worrying about things average people have to worry about: silly things like jobs, house payments etc.

rafan
09-15-2009, 09:38 PM
That's why they are getting the big bucks.

I'd hate to see how they react over the stresses of worrying about things average people have to worry about: silly things like jobs, house payments etc.

Yes but its not all big bucks. A couple of years ago there was an incidence of a tennis player playing at Wimbledon who had to sleep under bridges and borrow shoes and clothing before he could compete because he just did not have the cash