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35ft6
09-16-2009, 03:41 AM
I'm not talking about "for his era" type of argument, like Agassi hit way harder than the rest of the tour when he arrived than Del Potro does now in comparison to HIS peers.

I'm talking about adding up the miles per hour of a player's serve, forehand, and backhand, and averaging it out. And I'm talking about how hard they hit consistently, on a point by point, game by game basis, and not about being able to crank one every so often. Like Felipe Lopez, yeah, he can rip a forehand sometimes, and he's got a potent serve, but his slice backhand.... Or Roddick, for a while, I thought he had the biggest serve + forehand combination in the history of tennis, and his serve still takes the prize for MPH, but his forehand is loopier than before and his backhand was never a screamer.

But Del Potro consistently hits the cover off the ball on all three strokes. In the finals of the US Open, not sure if I've ever seen somebody hit so hard for so long. That might have been the biggest display of power tennis I've ever seen. And Fed is no slouch either in the History of Power category. But Del Potro had an extra gear.

I'm not saying power equals tennis greatness. Clearly, Fed is a better player, and I might still be inclined to say Andy Murray is still a better player than Del Potro as suggested in the title of another thread in this forum.

So Del Potro. I think he might be the biggest hitter (and I explained what I mean by that) in the history of tennis.

Thoughts?

dropshot winner
09-16-2009, 03:46 AM
Ever heard of Safin?

35ft6
09-16-2009, 03:51 AM
^ Yeah, and I was going to mention him. I saw a match once where Safin was being outhit by Roddick. This was probably about 5 or 6 years ago. Roddick was consistently imposing his power on Safin and not the other way around.

Del Potro hits bigger than Safin. I think a playing out of his mind Tsonga could be in the top 3 in this category at the moment.

dropshot winner
09-16-2009, 04:05 AM
^ Yeah, and I was going to mention him. I saw a match once where Safin was being outhit by Roddick. This was probably about 5 or 6 years ago. Roddick was consistently imposing his power on Safin and not the other way around.

Del Potro hits bigger than Safin. I think a playing out of his mind Tsonga could be in the top 3 in this category at the moment.
I don't get your example.
What does one thing has to do with the other? I've seen Del Potro losing to semi-retired Ljubicic this year, on clay...

Del Potro definately doesn't hit bigger on average than a well playing Safin.
Del Potro would not have beaten 2005 AO Federer, not in a million years. Safin did just that, not with consistency, but with power.

benasp
09-16-2009, 04:09 AM
I don't know if it count when the ball is out, but Gulbis hit very very hard ;)

35ft6
09-16-2009, 04:32 AM
I don't get your example.
What does one thing has to do with the other? I've seen Del Potro losing to semi-retired Ljubicic this year, on clay...Uh. What I'm saying is that I think Del Potro has more power than Safin. And I cited a specific match as an example. As I've noticed you did. What's confusing you?

sureshs
09-16-2009, 04:35 AM
What about Fernando Gonzalez?

dropshot winner
09-16-2009, 04:36 AM
Uh. What I'm saying is that I think Del Potro has more power than Safin. And I cited a specific match as an example. I've seen both play several matches, but I cited one. What's the confusion? Did I say "based on the one match I saw Safin play..."
How should the fact that Roddick once overpowered Safin proof that Del Potro has more power?

Del Potro's fastets forehand is probably faster than Safin's fastest, but Safin hit his average groundstroke harder and flatter.

dropshot winner
09-16-2009, 04:37 AM
What about Fernando Gonzalez?
Did you read the first post?

35ft6
09-16-2009, 04:37 AM
How should the fact that Roddick once overpowered Safin proof that Del Potro has more power?Okay, forget about Safin playing Roddick. How about this: based on every match I've ever seen Safin play, and Del Potro play, I think Del Potro is a bigger hitter. Happy? Strange you brought up Fed and Safin, but you act like you don't understand how one match proves anything.Del Potro's fastets forehand is probably faster than Safin's fastest, but on Safin hit his average groundstroke harder and flatter.Disagree.

35ft6
09-16-2009, 04:39 AM
What about Fernando Gonzalez?In his match against Tsonga, the commentators all agreed Gonzo would have to play really well to win because Tsonga had more firepower. Gonzo MIGHT consistently get more MPH on his forehand than Tsonga, but you add serve, forehand, and serve together, and Tsonga has Gonzo beat hands down.

joe sch
09-16-2009, 04:44 AM
I'm not talking about "for his era" type of argument, like Agassi hit way harder than the rest of the tour when he arrived than Del Potro does now in comparison to HIS peers.

I'm talking about adding up the miles per hour of a player's serve, forehand, and backhand, and averaging it out. And I'm talking about how hard they hit consistently, on a point by point, game by game basis, and not about being able to crank one every so often. Like Felipe Lopez, yeah, he can rip a forehand sometimes, and he's got a potent serve, but his slice backhand.... Or Roddick, for a while, I thought he had the biggest serve + forehand combination in the history of tennis, and his serve still takes the prize for MPH, but his forehand is loopier than before and his backhand was never a screamer.

But Del Potro consistently hits the cover off the ball on all three strokes. In the finals of the US Open, not sure if I've ever seen somebody hit so hard for so long. That might have been the biggest display of power tennis I've ever seen. And Fed is no slouch either in the History of Power category. But Del Potro had an extra gear.

I'm not saying power equals tennis greatness. Clearly, Fed is a better player, and I might still be inclined to say Andy Murray is still a better player than Del Potro as suggested in the title of another thread in this forum.

So Del Potro. I think he might be the biggest hitter (and I explained what I mean by that) in the history of tennis.

Thoughts?

I think Del Potro does have what it takes to be one of the biggest hitters of all time. What he has accomplished this year, especially the crushing of Nadal and this historic power display beating Federer in his 1st slam final (USO 2009), makes him a candidate for biggest hitter of 2009. With his size and if he keeps up this level of play or maybe even improves with this new confidence (2009 USO champion), this thread title maybe very appropriate in a decade.

This USO 2009 really makes mens tennis even more exciting now. I hope Murray can win a slam next year so we have one more slam champion in the mix ...

dropshot winner
09-16-2009, 04:44 AM
Okay, forget about Safin playing Roddick. How about this: based on every match I've ever seen Safin play, and Del Potro play, I think Del Potro is a bigger hitter. Happy? Strange you brought up Fed and Safin, but you act like you don't understand how one match proves anything.Disagree.

Just watch Soderling against Nadal. He hit bigger shots on average than Del Potro did this US Open.

How can Del Potro be the biggest hitter of all time when he isn't even the biggest hitter of this year?

35ft6
09-16-2009, 04:45 AM
Safin.

I think he might very well might be number 2. But like I said, I'm talking on a shot by shot, game by game, even match by match basis. Not talking about a guy who can hit the hardest when he's having a once a year or even once a month kind of match. I would argue that Safin could be taken out of his game, even in his prime, he could lose inexplicably any week. Maybe when he was having a great day, he came very very close to Del Potro. From what I've seen, Del Potro is much more mentally stable and is consistently a cleaner, more powerful hitter.

35ft6
09-16-2009, 04:47 AM
Just watch Soderling against Nadal. He hit bigger shots on average than Del Potro did this US Open.

How can Del Potro be the biggest hitter of all time when he isn't even the biggest hitter of this year?I've seen a lot of Soderling matches, and I think Del Potro is a bigger hitter all around. Okay, now that you've stopped asking me why I cite matches, how about Fed versus Soderling compared to Fed versus Del Potro. No comparison. Again, I'm talking on a consistent basis. But even aside from that, if we're just talking about sheer once a match heater, I take Potro over Soderling.

bolo
09-16-2009, 04:52 AM
I'm not talking about "for his era" type of argument, like Agassi hit way harder than the rest of the tour when he arrived than Del Potro does now in comparison to HIS peers.

I'm talking about adding up the miles per hour of a player's serve, forehand, and backhand, and averaging it out. And I'm talking about how hard they hit consistently, on a point by point, game by game basis, and not about being able to crank one every so often. Like Felipe Lopez, yeah, he can rip a forehand sometimes, and he's got a potent serve, but his slice backhand.... Or Roddick, for a while, I thought he had the biggest serve + forehand combination in the history of tennis, and his serve still takes the prize for MPH, but his forehand is loopier than before and his backhand was never a screamer.

But Del Potro consistently hits the cover off the ball on all three strokes. In the finals of the US Open, not sure if I've ever seen somebody hit so hard for so long. That might have been the biggest display of power tennis I've ever seen. And Fed is no slouch either in the History of Power category. But Del Potro had an extra gear.

I'm not saying power equals tennis greatness. Clearly, Fed is a better player, and I might still be inclined to say Andy Murray is still a better player than Del Potro as suggested in the title of another thread in this forum.

So Del Potro. I think he might be the biggest hitter (and I explained what I mean by that) in the history of tennis.

Thoughts?

good question. I think it depends a little bit as the other poster said on how you count outballs. The fair way to count them is as zeros in the mph calculation and then it's possible that this will not be the biggest as you defined it. I do think he missed quite a bit off balls over the 5 sets but there is no good way to know how this affects the final calculation without crunching the numbers imo.

Imo the place you will find the biggest hitting performance of all time is the AO. The slowness of the AO allows guys more time to go big on their shots, but they still get rewarded for hitting flat unlike on clay. It's possible that AO 2005 for safin was the biggest single hitting performance of all time. How about the Sampras/courier Ao 95 match? I also remember lots of big hitting from sampras in that match even if you discount his weaker backhand relative to jmdp and safin. How about a very clean joachim johanssen match?

If you abstract from single best performances where great one off performances are possible and look at entire careers I would say that jmdp will be definitely be a candidate for the biggest hitter of all time. :)

dropshot winner
09-16-2009, 04:53 AM
I've seen a lot of Soderling matches, and I think Del Potro is a bigger hitter all around. Okay, now that you've stopped asking me why I cite matches, how about Fed versus Soderling compared to Fed versus Del Potro. No comparison. Again, I'm talking on a consistent basis. But even aside from that, if we're just talking about sheer once a match heater, I take Potro over Soderling.

Del Potro's strength is consistent power, that's where he's the best.
Soderling and Safin have less controlled agression.

Looking at the title this thread is about the biggest hitter, not the most consistent big hitter.

And I don't understand how the Soderling match was no comparison to the final. Federer played much better against Soderling that he did against Del Potro.

brad1730
09-16-2009, 04:53 AM
Soderling is close. He can really pound a high ball, but I would take Del Potro over Soderling too. He's got the serve, and the inside out forehand.

pmerk34
09-16-2009, 04:53 AM
I don't know if it count when the ball is out, but Gulbis hit very very hard ;)

Gulbis has freakish power.

35ft6
09-16-2009, 04:54 AM
I think Del Potro does have what it takes to be one of the biggest hitters of all time. What he has accomplished this year, especially the crushing of Nadal and this historic power display beating Federer in his 1st slam final (USO 2009), makes him a candidate for biggest hitter of 2009. With his size and if he keeps up this level of play or maybe even improves with this new confidence (2009 USO champion), this thread title maybe very appropriate in a decade.That final against Fed was ridiculous. Especially in the 5th set, he was just hitting screamers one after the other. Even if Fed barely had to move to get his racket on the ball, he was having problems getting it back. Del Potro has a big serve, but it's really his groundstrokes, especially his forehand, that puts him over the top. It's a monster.

pmerk34
09-16-2009, 04:54 AM
Del Potro's strength is consistent power, that's where he's the best.
Soderling and Safin have less controlled agression.

Looking at the title this thread is about the biggest hitter, not the most consistent big hitter.

And I don't understand how the Soderling match was no comparison to the final. Federer played much better against Soderling that he did against Del Potro.

Stop whining. Del Potro overpowered him.

pmerk34
09-16-2009, 04:56 AM
I'm not talking about "for his era" type of argument, like Agassi hit way harder than the rest of the tour when he arrived than Del Potro does now in comparison to HIS peers.

I'm talking about adding up the miles per hour of a player's serve, forehand, and backhand, and averaging it out. And I'm talking about how hard they hit consistently, on a point by point, game by game basis, and not about being able to crank one every so often. Like Felipe Lopez, yeah, he can rip a forehand sometimes, and he's got a potent serve, but his slice backhand.... Or Roddick, for a while, I thought he had the biggest serve + forehand combination in the history of tennis, and his serve still takes the prize for MPH, but his forehand is loopier than before and his backhand was never a screamer.

But Del Potro consistently hits the cover off the ball on all three strokes. In the finals of the US Open, not sure if I've ever seen somebody hit so hard for so long. That might have been the biggest display of power tennis I've ever seen. And Fed is no slouch either in the History of Power category. But Del Potro had an extra gear.

I'm not saying power equals tennis greatness. Clearly, Fed is a better player, and I might still be inclined to say Andy Murray is still a better player than Del Potro as suggested in the title of another thread in this forum.

So Del Potro. I think he might be the biggest hitter (and I explained what I mean by that) in the history of tennis.

Thoughts?

based on the US Open final it looked to me that Del Potro has the biggest FH of all time which as always the case with Fed.

bolo
09-16-2009, 04:57 AM
Just watch Soderling against Nadal. He hit bigger shots on average than Del Potro did this US Open.

How can Del Potro be the biggest hitter of all time when he isn't even the biggest hitter of this year?

The soderling match calculation would have to be done. He was going big on almost every shot and a lot of them fell in.

35ft6
09-16-2009, 04:59 AM
Looking at the title this thread is about the biggest hitter, not the most consistent big hitter.As you pointed out to Suresh, I described what I meant. The consistency part is the whole point. Believe me, I should know, I started the thread. And even if you're not talking about consistency, I might argue for Del Potro. If you want to change the definition, go for it. We can talk about the biggest hitter on certain surfaces on the perfect day when they're wearing their favorite socks and playing the opponent they just instinctively can read, who hits it over and over right into their wheel house. That will be interesting, too.

Andres
09-16-2009, 05:10 AM
Berdych and Tursunov has freakish power off both wings, too.

Gimmick
09-16-2009, 05:42 AM
So, in addition to the title of the thread we have added;

Without respect to his peers.
In average games not just great ones.
On average shots not just his best ones.
On on backhand, forehand, and serve combined.
Maybe in balls maybe not depending on whether this supports the title.

Seriously, quit adding qualifiers just to support your position. Stand by your original premise and let the chips fall where they may.

Benhur
09-16-2009, 05:56 AM
I agree with the OP. There are other power hitters who can hit as hard or even harder than him on a given day (Gonzalez comes to mind, even Blake on his good days a few years ago) but no one that I can think of shows anywhere near the consistency Del Potro shows from one match to the next. And his court coverage and sense of anticipation are also superb. He knows where to be. Also his movement is surprisingly nimble for a seemingly lumbering giant like him, as well as his ability to handle low balls. With the huge wingspan he has, if he improves his volleying skills I see him as more complete player than any of the top 5 except maybe Federer.

Spider
09-16-2009, 05:59 AM
Another thread on Del Potro, he is way overrated since winning that US open title.

Gorecki
09-16-2009, 06:08 AM
well... if you have to take acount of BH too, then Gonzales is out...

all things considered, i would say Juan, Marat, Andre and Jojo are top "all shot" hitters...

and also Berdych and Torsunov like Andres mentioned..

not that it represents that big of an advantage...

my 10 cents fwiw

NamRanger
09-16-2009, 06:09 AM
Another thread on Del Potro, he is way overrated since winning that US open title.


Better than Andy Murray. 1 slam > #2 ranking.

dropshot winner
09-16-2009, 06:13 AM
Soderling did not abuse him like Del Potro did.

As far as Fed not serving "well' too bad. It happens.

He lost.
The matches were similiar, except for one thing, Federer won the big points against Soderling and lost them against Del Potro.

Federer was two points from a 4-set victory against Del Potro and twice just a point away from going 5 with Soderling.

dropshot
09-16-2009, 07:02 AM
Inside-out forehand --> Tsonga
Forehand in general (especially Cross-court) ---> Del Potro
Backhand --> Safin and Del Potro.
Chest height balls --> Soderling
Running forehand --> Del Potro and Pistol Pete.

Gulbis is up there but he doesn't have consistent results to back him up.

If biggest means fastest, the OP is right on the mark. In reality, if combined with pace, it is harder to return a fast and heavily spin balls like Nadal's than just a purely fast flat ball.

bolo
09-16-2009, 07:10 AM
Inside-out forehand --> Tsonga
Forehand in general (especially Cross-court) ---> Del Potro
Backhand --> Safin and Del Potro.
Chest height balls --> Soderling
Running forehand --> Del Potro and Pistol Pete.

Gulbis is up there but he doesn't have consistent results to back him up.

If biggest means fastest, the OP is right on the mark. In reality, if combined with pace, it is harder to return a fast and heavily spin balls like Nadal's than just a purely fast flat ball.

I have been very impressed with delpo's running forehand. I am not ready to say it's as good pistol pete's but it's the best power I have seen since sampras.

Kobble
09-16-2009, 08:02 AM
If we are talking about a single forehand, I think I have it on tape. I have Tursunov on tape wacking a ball around shoulder getting his whole body going foreward. That was the hardest hit I ever saw in person, and I've seen Safin, Gulbis, Del Potro, Gonzalez, Verdasco, Federer and on and on.

dropshot winner
09-16-2009, 08:05 AM
If we are talking about a single forehand, I think I have it on tape. I have Tursunov on tape wacking a ball around shoulder getting his whole body going foreward. That was the hardest hit I ever saw in person, and I've seen Safin, Gulbis, Del Potro, Gonzalez, Verdasco, Federer and on and on.

Tursunov is a good call, Korolev too. Too bad those guys miss most of the time. :D

ArrowSmith
09-16-2009, 08:06 AM
The "Beast of Tandil", that what we call him.

jjermann
09-16-2009, 08:08 AM
I'm not talking about "for his era" type of argument, like Agassi hit way harder than the rest of the tour when he arrived than Del Potro does now in comparison to HIS peers.

I'm talking about adding up the miles per hour of a player's serve, forehand, and backhand, and averaging it out. And I'm talking about how hard they hit consistently, on a point by point, game by game basis, and not about being able to crank one every so often. Like Felipe Lopez, yeah, he can rip a forehand sometimes, and he's got a potent serve, but his slice backhand.... Or Roddick, for a while, I thought he had the biggest serve + forehand combination in the history of tennis, and his serve still takes the prize for MPH, but his forehand is loopier than before and his backhand was never a screamer.

But Del Potro consistently hits the cover off the ball on all three strokes. In the finals of the US Open, not sure if I've ever seen somebody hit so hard for so long. That might have been the biggest display of power tennis I've ever seen. And Fed is no slouch either in the History of Power category. But Del Potro had an extra gear.

I'm not saying power equals tennis greatness. Clearly, Fed is a better player, and I might still be inclined to say Andy Murray is still a better player than Del Potro as suggested in the title of another thread in this forum.

So Del Potro. I think he might be the biggest hitter (and I explained what I mean by that) in the history of tennis.

Thoughts?

Time to watch his matches more, his serve is very good...it was his plan to take pace off his serve against Federer, dont make conclusions it you have only seen him play one match.

Breaker
09-16-2009, 08:14 AM
Berdych and Almagro from both wings.

Shaolin
09-16-2009, 08:22 AM
Gulbis has more all around power than anyone right now IMO, FH, BH & serve combined.

BTW, Does anyone know the speed of those Delpo returns vs Fed? There was one crosscourt that had to be about 110.

TENNISSLAVE
09-16-2009, 08:25 AM
Just watch Soderling against Nadal. He hit bigger shots on average than Del Potro did this US Open.

How can Del Potro be the biggest hitter of all time when he isn't even the biggest hitter of this year?



True , Soderling and Gulbis are up there with Del P.
IMO DP has a better trajectory and therefore gains much more outright but most often more gradually than other big hitters do.

zagor
09-16-2009, 08:33 AM
In the matter of consistently hitting big off both sides and keeping it in court yes I think Delpo may likely be the biggest hitter of all time.

GRANITECHIEF
09-16-2009, 08:56 AM
Gulbis has more all around power than anyone right now IMO, FH, BH & serve combined.

BTW, Does anyone know the speed of those Delpo returns vs Fed? There was one crosscourt that had to be about 110.

110 was the FH speed i heard mentioned by the commentators. There were numerous FH's that topped 100, incredible!

roddickfan1000
09-16-2009, 09:14 AM
safin and roddick in there primes hit harder than anyone else. Delpotro doesn't rival either of these players for power.

jjermann
09-16-2009, 09:18 AM
safin and roddick in there primes hit harder than anyone else. Delpotro doesn't rival either of these players for power.

roddick? :lol:

roddickfan1000
09-16-2009, 09:26 AM
roddick? :lol:

yes, you know the guy who can hit serves at 155mph. Power, yes, i think so.

watch videos of 2003/04 if you think i'm wrong

Gorecki
09-16-2009, 09:45 AM
yes, you know the guy who can hit serves at 155mph. Power, yes, i think so.

watch videos of 2003/04 if you think i'm wrong

both wings.. both.... :confused:

ASL
09-16-2009, 09:47 AM
yes, you know the guy who can hit serves at 155mph. Power, yes, i think so.

watch videos of 2003/04 if you think i'm wrong

Serves arn't forehand...

roddickfan1000
09-16-2009, 09:48 AM
both wings.. both.... :confused:

roddick's forehand was more powerful in 2003/04 than delpo's at the moment. Backhand no, but roddick's serve,overhead and forehand are more powerful.

ASL
09-16-2009, 09:52 AM
roddick's forehand was more powerful in 2003/04.

That's about it.

Gorecki
09-16-2009, 09:52 AM
roddick's forehand was more powerful in 2003/04 than delpo's at the moment. Backhand no, but roddick's serve,overhead and forehand are more powerful.

ok. i get your idea. but his BH is, was and will always be a liability in both precision and pace...

forehand is dabatable

overhead and serve i agree...

ceberus
09-16-2009, 09:58 AM
Safin hands down. I've seen him in his prime and he rips the ball on average. Del Potro may get more MPH once in a while.

Safin was/is still my fave of all time. What a way to throw away your career.

roddickfan1000
09-16-2009, 09:59 AM
ok. i get your idea. but his BH is, was and will always be a liability in both precision and pace...

forehand is dabatable

overhead and serve i agree...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbvJZ6KmCy8

a 4 minute video of the forehands of roddick when he was very good

Gorecki
09-16-2009, 10:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbvJZ6KmCy8

a 4 minute video of the forehands of roddick when he was very good

i know how is forehand was back in 04. i followed him back then... thanks anyway! i still think it's debatable. not saying it is or not harder... just debatable...

roddickfan1000
09-16-2009, 10:06 AM
i know how is forehand was back in 04. i followed him back then... thanks anyway! i still think it's debatable. not saying it is or not harder... just debatable...

well, even if it was 50/50, roddick has a much harder serve and overhead, meaning that delpotro has one shot that is harder than roddicks - the backhand. And to be honest having a harder backhand than roddick isn't good indication.

mtr1
09-16-2009, 10:14 AM
Agassi anyone?

NamRanger
09-16-2009, 10:31 AM
i know how is forehand was back in 04. i followed him back then... thanks anyway! i still think it's debatable. not saying it is or not harder... just debatable...



Roddick's forehand was certainly heavier. He hit it with more spin than Del Potro, who just clobbers it super flat.

Gorecki
09-16-2009, 11:34 AM
Roddick's forehand was certainly heavier. He hit it with more spin than Del Potro, who just clobbers it super flat.

true that... but remember loopier means less pace...

Shaolin
09-16-2009, 12:20 PM
110 was the FH speed i heard mentioned by the commentators. There were numerous FH's that topped 100, incredible!

Yeah those were sick FHs. I remember them talking about one at 108mph and there had to be even faster ones, esp that return..

roddickfan1000
09-16-2009, 01:33 PM
true that... but remember loopier means less pace...

yes, but roddick had/has the ability to hit as hard(er) as anyone else

bigserver
09-16-2009, 02:44 PM
how has monfils been overseen?!

roddickfan1000
09-16-2009, 02:47 PM
how has monfils been overseen?!

he's hit one big forehand in his entire life and is a puisher.

P_Agony
09-16-2009, 02:47 PM
DP's FH was downright scary at the USO final. I think even Fed was shocked by it and just couldn't reply with the same power.

Tennis_Maestro
09-16-2009, 03:08 PM
I agree with the opening post, some of the idiots in response on the first page completely missed the point 35ft6 was making.

Del Potro hits hard on all sides and although Safin is definetely up there, the hard hitting is neither as consistent or as hard for the matter.

Tennis_Maestro
09-16-2009, 03:09 PM
No one rated this thread, because they were all too busy reading and debating. Actually worthy of a 5 star. Nice observation.

NamRanger
09-16-2009, 03:23 PM
true that... but remember loopier means less pace...


Roddick's forehand in 2004 was certainly not lacking in pace. Roddick's forehand was monstrous and it had alot of spin on it. Now it's just a loopy ball that asks to be clobbered.

OJ ROD
09-16-2009, 03:29 PM
http://cdn.24.com/files/Cms/General/d/107/3cba40a0f8024660855902b795131e9e.jpg

tricky
09-16-2009, 03:37 PM
Del Potro is getting up there.

There's bigger FHs than DelPo's FH, but nobody consistently harder on the run than DelPo. In other words, even if you move him around wide, he's going to kill that ball.

As for his BH, well let's put it this way. Regardless of how high that ball bounced or how much topspin is on it, that ball was seemingly coming back about ankle high and at 70+ mph. His optimal contact zone on the BH wing is so frigging large that almost everything you give him will be in his wheelhouse.

bigserver
09-16-2009, 03:38 PM
he's hit one big forehand in his entire life and is a puisher.

He still has huge shots in his locker though. My money is safely on fernando, the guy hits massive every day and has no idea of slowing down lol!

Talker
09-16-2009, 03:51 PM
DP's FH was downright scary at the USO final. I think even Fed was shocked by it and just couldn't reply with the same power.

Surprised me too, and Fed couldn't even move a few times, the ball was already going past him.

Potro was pretty close this year to winning 2 slams, just a few here and there at RG and he could have won.

ArrowSmith
09-16-2009, 03:54 PM
I don't care what anyone says, DelPo was hitting 105mph forehands with freakin' regularity in the 4th and 5th sets and the match went over the 3 hour mark. That's insane hitting of the type I've never seen before. Oh and he can hit 100mph on the dead run.

grafselesfan
09-16-2009, 04:33 PM
Gulbis has more all around power than anyone right now IMO, FH, BH & serve combined.

BTW, Does anyone know the speed of those Delpo returns vs Fed? There was one crosscourt that had to be about 110.

Gulbis!! Yet another ridicuoulsly overhyped player (boy are there are a ton of those today). Del Potro and Cilic both hit the ball much harder than Gulbis. Yes Gulbis is worthless in everyway except for his power but that still doesnt mean he is the hardest hitter.

NamRanger
09-16-2009, 04:37 PM
Gulbis!! Yet another ridicuoulsly overhyped player (boy are there are a ton of those today). Del Potro and Cilic both hit the ball much harder than Gulbis. Yes Gulbis is worthless in everyway except for his power but that still doesnt mean he is the hardest hitter.


I'm not sure. Gulbis I think has more raw power than Cilic and is on par with Del Potro, but he has absolutely no consistency.

Claudius
09-16-2009, 04:39 PM
I'm not sure. Gulbis I think has more raw power than Cilic and is on par with Del Potro, but he has absolutely no consistency.

That's correct. Cilic doesn't even belong in this conversation. Gulbis is the hardest hitter on tour.

IvanisevicServe
09-16-2009, 07:51 PM
If we're talking serve and forehand combination, I'm going with Soderling. This guy absolutely pummeled Nadal on clay.

I don't think his backhand is quite as big as needed to be the top overall power guy, though.

grafselesfan
09-16-2009, 07:56 PM
I'm not sure. Gulbis I think has more raw power than Cilic and is on par with Del Potro, but he has absolutely no consistency.

I disagree. Cilic hits more winners than Del Potro in most of their matches. He certainly isnt doing that with much other than his power when you watch him play. Gulbis gets overpowered whenever he plays Del Potro and Cilic in addition to being outsteadied, outsmarted, outmaneuvered, outhustled, you name it. He is inferior to both guys in everyway, just a ridiculously overrated player like I said. Granted he does still hit every hard, the one and only thing he does well, I will give him that, but Del Potro and Cilic both still clearly hit harder. Cilic is the only player atleast that young who can rival Del Potros power but lacks the consistency, mental toughnesss, guile, and maybe even a bit the movement of Del Potro.

pinky42
09-16-2009, 08:03 PM
I'd have to go with Safin. His playing style is a constant barrage. Del Potro is more patient. He picks his spots.

Hot Sauce
09-16-2009, 08:28 PM
My vote goes to Santoro.

Hot Sauce
09-16-2009, 08:28 PM
http://cdn.24.com/files/Cms/General/d/107/3cba40a0f8024660855902b795131e9e.jpg

Damn youuuuuuu!

pabloJD
09-16-2009, 08:29 PM
Joachim Johansson has HUGE forehand and serve, altough his backhand is not as powerful as Del Potro's

Gugafan
09-16-2009, 08:38 PM
Guga could match him on a good day (in terms of power). Even on the faster surfaces he could outhit some of the strong HC players in his era like Agassi and Safin (USO 02). Consistency wise Guga had his off days but when on could fire huge serves, forehands and hit the backhand better than anyone.

grafselesfan
09-16-2009, 09:10 PM
I certainly would agree he from a basic standpoint had the offensive weaponary needed to succeed on hard courts, possibly even a faster hard court. The problem though was Kuertens swings were too long for a really quick surface and he stood too far behind the baseline on a really quick surface. On clay he had the time to take those long swings and swing through the ball beautifully and his court positioning was fine for clay. His only big win at the U.S Open I recall was once beating Safin, and well Safin is what he is. He did have some great wins in non slam hard court events though, including even faster hard courts.

Datacipher
09-16-2009, 11:34 PM
Can't believe everyone has forgotten a young Phillippoussis....he had every bit as much or more power as any of these guys..,and the young Scud hit OUT.....just was missing other things eg. brain/dedication! lol.

ArrowSmith
09-16-2009, 11:39 PM
Tell me about any player that hit forehands 105mph or more, consistently.

grafselesfan
09-17-2009, 12:31 AM
Can't believe everyone has forgotten a young Phillippoussis....he had every bit as much or more power as any of these guys..,and the young Scud hit OUT.....just was missing other things eg. brain/dedication! lol.

Yeah he hit out alright, as in hit out of court way too often.

Halba
09-17-2009, 12:34 AM
yes at 20 yrs old, likely the biggest hitter in history of tennis

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 12:54 AM
Tell me about any player that hit forehands 105mph or more, consistently.

alot of people can, i think even hewitt in 2001 could hit up to that speed (and no, im not mad) it's just some people like to play % and hit loopers all day long.

35ft6
09-17-2009, 12:58 AM
To the Roddick fans, for a while, he had the biggest forehand and serve combination in tennis history. Bigger than Pete... bigger than Becker... bigger than Lendl. Perhaps not the best, but the biggest. In a practice session in Armstrong Stadium against Robby Ginepri back in 2000 or so, he hit one of the biggest forehands I've ever seen. Combine that with a serve that routinely hits the mid 130's, and we're talking serious power.

But besides his serve, Roddick is not as powerful as Del Potro. Roddick's backhand is a loopy, keep-me-in-the-point kind of shot. Not saying that's not a good thing, I'm not talking about the best tennis, just the most overall power. Roddick is more opportunistic, he can't generate the effortless power off the ground that Del Potro can't, his stroke production just isn't the same. When Roddick goes for power, you can SEE the effort, and he must wait for moments. With Del Potro, he's hitting hard effortlessly, and just as effortlessly, he suddenly hits something nuclear. And he doesn't necessarily have to wait for the right moment.

I've been high on Del Potro since I saw him at the 2006 Us Open qualies. On a different board, predicted he would be top 10. Not just jumping on the band wagon, even then, he could put some insane heat on the ball. And the crazy thing is he still has big room for improvement. Right now, he's basically hitting people off the court with incredibly sound groundstrokes. He's not swinging for the fences, his regular body shot is pretty tough to handle. But his point construction and transition game can use some work. And his serve was good in 2003, but it's way better now, and I think it's only going to get better. Against Fed, he was mostly hitting slices in the 5th set, and it was enough to give Fed fits. Scary.

35ft6
09-17-2009, 01:03 AM
Time to watch his matches more, his serve is very good...it was his plan to take pace off his serve against Federer, dont make conclusions it you have only seen him play one match.What are you talking about?

BorisBeckerFan
09-17-2009, 01:04 AM
I would take Fed's or Sampras's forehands at there respective peaks over any of these biggest hitter types. They're bringing almost as much speed but there shots were more venomous producing winner after winner and also hitting winners in unexpected or difficult situations which just deflate the opponent. That being said JMDP is only 20 so I would hope his forehand will continue to improve. He certainly isn't lacking in the pace department. Let's see where he takes it from here.

equinox
09-17-2009, 01:09 AM
Pim Pim vs agassi, australia open.

nfor304
09-17-2009, 01:14 AM
To the Roddick fans, for a while, he had the biggest forehand and serve combination in tennis history. Bigger than Pete... bigger than Becker... bigger than Lendl. Perhaps not the best, but the biggest. In a practice session in Armstrong Stadium against Robby Ginepri back in 2000 or so, he hit one of the biggest forehands I've ever seen. Combine that with a serve that routinely hits the mid 130's, and we're talking serious power.

But besides his serve, Roddick is not as powerful as Del Potro. Roddick's backhand is a loopy, keep-me-in-the-point kind of shot. Not saying that's not a good thing, I'm not talking about the best tennis, just the most overall power. Roddick is more opportunistic, he can't generate the effortless power off the ground that Del Potro can't, his stroke production just isn't the same. When Roddick goes for power, you can SEE the effort, and he must wait for moments. With Del Potro, he's hitting hard effortlessly, and just as effortlessly, he suddenly hits something nuclear. And he doesn't necessarily have to wait for the right moment.

I've been high on Del Potro since I saw him at the 2003 Us Open qualies. On a different board, predicted he would be top 10. Not just jumping on the band wagon, even then, he could put some insane heat on the ball. And the crazy thing is he still has big room for improvement. Right now, he's basically hitting people off the court with incredibly sound groundstrokes. He's not swinging for the fences, his regular body shot is pretty tough to handle. But his point construction and transition game can use some work. And his serve was good in 2003, but it's way better now, and I think it's only going to get better. Against Fed, he was mostly hitting slices in the 5th set, and it was enough to give Fed fits. Scary.

Are you sure it was 03? He would have been 14 years old

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 01:26 AM
To the Roddick fans, for a while, he had the biggest forehand and serve combination in tennis history. Bigger than Pete... bigger than Becker... bigger than Lendl. Perhaps not the best, but the biggest. In a practice session in Armstrong Stadium against Robby Ginepri back in 2000 or so, he hit one of the biggest forehands I've ever seen. Combine that with a serve that routinely hits the mid 130's, and we're talking serious power.

But besides his serve, Roddick is not as powerful as Del Potro. Roddick's backhand is a loopy, keep-me-in-the-point kind of shot. Not saying that's not a good thing, I'm not talking about the best tennis, just the most overall power. Roddick is more opportunistic, he can't generate the effortless power off the ground that Del Potro can't, his stroke production just isn't the same. When Roddick goes for power, you can SEE the effort, and he must wait for moments. With Del Potro, he's hitting hard effortlessly, and just as effortlessly, he suddenly hits something nuclear. And he doesn't necessarily have to wait for the right moment.

I've been high on Del Potro since I saw him at the 2003 Us Open qualies. On a different board, predicted he would be top 10. Not just jumping on the band wagon, even then, he could put some insane heat on the ball. And the crazy thing is he still has big room for improvement. Right now, he's basically hitting people off the court with incredibly sound groundstrokes. He's not swinging for the fences, his regular body shot is pretty tough to handle. But his point construction and transition game can use some work. And his serve was good in 2003, but it's way better now, and I think it's only going to get better. Against Fed, he was mostly hitting slices in the 5th set, and it was enough to give Fed fits. Scary.


Yes, but as someone pointed in a previous post - roddick hit with spin in 2003/2004 anyway, and still got amazing pace. I'm pretty sure that the roddick of 2003/04 was more powerful on the serve and forehand than delpotro.

ASL
09-17-2009, 01:34 AM
Yes, but as someone pointed in a previous post - roddick hit with spin in 2003/2004 anyway, and still got amazing pace. I'm pretty sure that the roddick of 2003/04 was more powerful on the serve and forehand than delpotro.

Murray and Djokovic have a better forehand than Roddick imo.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 01:38 AM
Murray and Djokovic have a better forehand than Roddick imo.

HAHAHAHAHA, actually, i reckon djokovic does have a better forehand than roddick at the moment, but murray? please. But roddick's 03/04 forehand was deadlier than both combined.

ASL
09-17-2009, 01:40 AM
HAHAHAHAHA, actually, i reckon djokovic does have a better forehand than roddick at the moment, but murray? please. But roddick's 03/04 forehand was deadlier than both combined.

Murray can generate a hell of a lot more pace on his forehand than Roddick without making UE's. Just watch Murray vs Nadal in MC this year.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 01:44 AM
Murray can generate a hell of a lot more pace on his forehand than Roddick without making UE's. Just watch Murray vs Nadal in MC this year.

One match isn't going to cut it. Federer proved in cincinatti that murray can't generate his own pace on his forehand side. I actually think that roddick has a bigger forehand than murray today even though he's lost about 40mph on it.

ASL
09-17-2009, 01:47 AM
One match isn't going to cut it. Federer proved in cincinatti that murray can't generate his own pace on his forehand side. I actually think that roddick has a bigger forehand than murray today even though he's lost about 40mph on it.

In what way does that one match prove anything? When murray was on a role against Federer his forehand was rock solid and didn't break down.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 02:07 AM
In what way does that one match prove anything? When murray was on a role against Federer his forehand was rock solid and didn't break down.

Well, i think it's obvious that roddick's forehand is clearly better than murray's, even though it has got worse over time. Wimbledon proved this. The only shot that murray is better than roddick is the backhand.

ASL
09-17-2009, 02:10 AM
Well, i think it's obvious that roddick's forehand is clearly better than murray's, even though it has got worse over time. Wimbledon proved this. The only shot that murray is better than roddick is the backhand.

Roddick's forehand at Wimby was the same as it was in Doha earlier in the year when they played. Loopey, hardly flat at all. Murray lost that match purely based on Roddick's serve which was on fire. Hence the fact he was able to control the rallies.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 02:23 AM
Roddick's forehand at Wimby was the same as it was in Doha earlier in the year when they played. Loopey, hardly flat at all. Murray lost that match purely based on Roddick's serve which was on fire. Hence the fact he was able to control the rallies.

Actually, roddick won the match because of his smart play, combined with his improved backhand and his powerful forehand.

serve: roddick
Forehand:roddick
Volleys:roddick, yes, im not mad
overhead:roddick
fitness:roddick
Backhand:murray

this is a fair comparison

ASL
09-17-2009, 02:32 AM
Actually, roddick won the match because of his smart play, combined with his improved backhand and his powerful forehand.

serve: roddick
Forehand:roddick
Volleys:roddick, yes, im not mad
overhead:roddick
fitness:roddick
Backhand:murray

this is a fair comparison

No, Murray was returning balls in the middle of the court for Roddick to hit a smash or forehand drive and Murray couldn't do anything. That was due to his SERVE. there no smart play during the rallies

Anyway, that list of yours is quite frankly stupid. And no, its not a fair comparison.

Here's mine:


Serve:Roddick

Return of serve: Murray

Forehand:Murray (just about)

Backhand: Murray

Volley: Murray

Lob: Murray

Movement: Murray

Fitness: Murray

--------------------

It's very much one sided, but its the truth i'm afraid.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 02:41 AM
No, Murray was returning balls in the middle of the court for Roddick to hit a smash or forehand drive and Murray couldn't do anything. That was due to his SERVE. there no smart play during the rallies

Anyway, that list of yours is quite frankly stupid. And no, its not a fair comparison.

Here's mine:


Serve:Roddick

Return of serve: Murray

Forehand:Murray (just about)

Backhand: Murray

Volley: Murray

Lob: Murray

Movement: Murray

Fitness: Murray

--------------------

It's very much one sided, but its the truth i'm afraid.

sorry for not including ROS,movement and lob, yes, murray is superior than roddick in that department, he always will be. But forehand, i think roddick's 09 forehand is better than murray's will ver be, and his forehand in 03/04 was even better. Fitness, roddick is ahead of murray, no doubt, he was able to go the distance with federer even though he won 1 match in straight sets in wimbledon, and federer was all but 2 matches in SS. If you watch roddick's 5th set matches - you will see that he never fizzles out like murray did against nando in AO.

ASL
09-17-2009, 02:48 AM
sorry for not including ROS,movement and lob, yes, murray is superior than roddick in that department, he always will be. But forehand, i think roddick's 09 forehand is better than murray's will ver be, and his forehand in 03/04 was even better. Fitness, roddick is ahead of murray, no doubt, he was able to go the distance with federer even though he won 1 match in straight sets in wimbledon, and federer was all but 2 matches in SS. If you watch roddick's 5th set matches - you will see that he never fizzles out like murray did against nando in AO.

Murray being offensive with the forehand is better than Roddicks. whether you like it or not. Full stop.

Roddick fitter than Murray? i think i'll leave it at that.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 02:52 AM
Murray being offensive with the forehand is better than Roddicks. whether you like it or not. Full stop.

Roddick fitter than Murray? i think i'll leave it at that.


NO NO NO it's not better than roddick's. When does murray ever become offensive with his forehand - oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't. Roddick is fitter than murray.

ASL
09-17-2009, 02:55 AM
NO NO NO it's not better than roddick's. When does murray ever become offensive with his forehand - oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't. Roddick is fitter than murray.

He does, but not as much as i and others would hope for. But, when he does play offensively, its a deadly tool. Unlike Roddick's loopers.

Roddick is fitter than murray.

As i said before, i'll just leave it at that.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 03:20 AM
He does, but not as much as i and others would hope for. But, when he does play offensively, its a deadly tool. Unlike Roddick's loopers.



As i said before, i'll just leave it at that.


Yes, roddick does loops the ball like a lob, but i'm saying that when roddick gets a grip on his forehand then it becomes deadly, and much better than murray's, just watch some of his videos in 03. As for the fitness, we will agree to disagree.

BeHappy
09-17-2009, 03:25 AM
Bigger hitters than Del Potro:

http://www.daviscup.com/shared/medialibrary/image/gallery/DC_2283_gallery.JPG

http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Editorial/40_Greatest_Players/2006_04_19_boris_becker.jpg

http://img.skysports.com/08/06/800x600/Tennis-Nicolas-Almagro_960231.jpg

doom
09-17-2009, 03:36 AM
Roddick definitely has a bigger forehand than Murray. Roddick in 03/04 when he was playing with all out aggression had one of the biggest forehands of all time. Even Agassi said he had never seen a bigger forehand at the time. Like his serve, he has taken pace off his forehand as a compromise for better placement and consistency, but he can still crush the ball on that side as big as anyone today.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 03:38 AM
Roddick definitely has a bigger forehand than Murray. Roddick in 03/04 when he was playing with all out aggression had one of the biggest forehands of all time. Even Agassi said he had never seen a bigger forehand at the time. Like his serve, he has taken pace off his forehand as a compromise for better placement and consistency, but he can still crush the ball on that side as big as anyone today.

Thankyou, thankyou, someone who realises that roddick can still crush the ball as hard as anyone but chooses not to.

roddickfan1000
09-17-2009, 03:41 AM
agassi also hits it harder than JMDP

doom
09-17-2009, 03:43 AM
There was an article written in about 2001 in deuce magazine where the players who look like qualifying for the masters cup that year were asked to choose which strokes were best of any current player. I think of the 10 they asked 4 or 5 chose Roddick, including Agassi. The other choices players made were Ferrero, Sampras and Agassi from memory. Pretty sure Sampras chose himself too

doom
09-17-2009, 03:44 AM
so even when he was an 18 year old kid other top players recognized the bigness of his game

siddharta
09-17-2009, 03:46 AM
Del Potro will be the biggest star in tennis for years to come.

OrangeOne
09-17-2009, 03:51 AM
No. I fair thumped the living hell out of a forehand tonight when hitting, in my eyes it was bigger than JMDPs hitting....therefore.... I am the biggest hitter :)

doom
09-17-2009, 03:58 AM
No. I fair thumped the living hell out of a forehand tonight when hitting, in my eyes it was bigger than JMDPs hitting....therefore.... I am the biggest hitter :)

The op wants consistent thumping though

Thats the real challenge

jmverdugo
09-17-2009, 04:14 AM
IMO Del Potro is right there at the top 5 biggers hitters ever. What is more amazing is how effortless looking are all his strokes. You can see people like Gonzalez and Soderling hitting the crap out of the ball but you can see they make an extra effort and you can see that their ball is fast but doesnt look as heavy as Del Potro's. I can see how exahusting must be to play against Del Po, it has to be like being hit with a huge hammer time after time after time.

joe sch
09-17-2009, 06:47 AM
That final against Fed was ridiculous. Especially in the 5th set, he was just hitting screamers one after the other. Even if Fed barely had to move to get his racket on the ball, he was having problems getting it back. Del Potro has a big serve, but it's really his groundstrokes, especially his forehand, that puts him over the top. It's a monster.

Yep !

I think most of us agree, what DP did against the great Fed in this historic 5th set of the 2009 USO was just unsurpassed in modern tennis. I do agree that Soderling and others have played some crazy power hitting sets and matches this year, but not to win a slam against Federer.

This win is really going to make the next year interesting !

PJN
09-17-2009, 07:12 AM
Roscoe Tanner

(sorry, different era)

truthorbust
09-17-2009, 07:15 AM
On the serve old Roscoe smoked the ball. Groundies sucked though .

If one goes to youtube.com there used to be a clip of his serve .. it was fericious.

truthorbust
09-17-2009, 07:16 AM
Bigger hitters than Del Potro:

http://www.daviscup.com/shared/medialibrary/image/gallery/DC_2283_gallery.JPG

http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Editorial/40_Greatest_Players/2006_04_19_boris_becker.jpg

http://img.skysports.com/08/06/800x600/Tennis-Nicolas-Almagro_960231.jpg


Flipper.. heavy heavy groundies and blasting serve .. he is up there with DP but the 2 others BB and Almagro arent.

BeHappy
09-17-2009, 07:20 AM
Flipper.. heavy heavy groundies and blasting serve .. he is up there with DP but the 2 others BB and Almagro arent.

Boris Becker in the mid 90's just crushed the ball so hard I can't explain to you. All the videos of him on youtube have been taken down so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Almagro can serve 15mph faster than Del Potro and can hit the ball over 100mph pretty consistently on clay off both wings, generating his own pace. Del Potro had about 100mph of pace to work with on that return, and he hit it completely flat. Becker, Flipper and Almagro all hit the ball just as hard but with decent spin.

srinrajesh
09-17-2009, 07:32 AM
Safin at his best wud just slightly overpower or equal delpo i believe

remember few matches agaisnt sampras where he blew him off court and amazing SF agaisnt federer in 2005 Aus open.

srinrajesh
09-17-2009, 07:39 AM
Boris Becker in the mid 90's just crushed the ball so hard I can't explain to you. All the videos of him on youtube have been taken down so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Almagro can serve 15mph faster than Del Potro and can hit the ball over 100mph pretty consistently on clay off both wings, generating his own pace. Del Potro had about 100mph of pace to work with on that return, and he hit it completely flat. Becker, Flipper and Almagro all hit the ball just as hard but with decent spin.

Boris was definitely among the biggest hitters but the raquet technology has improved so much that delpo wud be bigger now.. only comparison we can do be the average power of that era vs average of the current era.

If so, i agree with u that Boris just ripped the ground strokes apart from his huge serve. probably best hitter of his era

Kobble
09-17-2009, 07:40 AM
Tursunov is a good call, Korolev too. Too bad those guys miss most of the time. :DKorolev hits it pretty good, but I think Tursunov is a step above. I've seen both in person up close. Korolev's power is mainly the forehand, but even then, most of his winners are due to good placement and working the guy around. Tursunov, I believe, could be ranked in the top 20% for power on all strokes (1st serve, backhand, and forehand). Oddly, Gulbis looks more powerful on tv, but Tursunov looks more powerful in person from my experience. Safin on the practice court is just plain fun to watch. His backhand looks as powerful as many guy's forehands.

BeHappy
09-17-2009, 07:42 AM
Boris was definitely among the biggest hitters but the raquet technology has improved so much that delpo wud be bigger now.. only comparison we can do be the average power of that era vs average of the current era.

If so, i agree with u that Boris just ripped the ground strokes apart from his huge serve. probably best hitter of his era

Racket technology hasn't improved since the late 80's, in terms of power nothing has changed, now if you want to say players have more spin now becauswe of developments in racket string that's fair enough.

ipitythefool
09-17-2009, 07:53 AM
I'm not talking about "for his era" type of argument, like Agassi hit way harder than the rest of the tour when he arrived than Del Potro does now in comparison to HIS peers.

I'm talking about adding up the miles per hour of a player's serve, forehand, and backhand, and averaging it out. And I'm talking about how hard they hit consistently, on a point by point, game by game basis, and not about being able to crank one every so often. Like Felipe Lopez, yeah, he can rip a forehand sometimes, and he's got a potent serve, but his slice backhand.... Or Roddick, for a while, I thought he had the biggest serve + forehand combination in the history of tennis, and his serve still takes the prize for MPH, but his forehand is loopier than before and his backhand was never a screamer.

But Del Potro consistently hits the cover off the ball on all three strokes. In the finals of the US Open, not sure if I've ever seen somebody hit so hard for so long. That might have been the biggest display of power tennis I've ever seen. And Fed is no slouch either in the History of Power category. But Del Potro had an extra gear.

I'm not saying power equals tennis greatness. Clearly, Fed is a better player, and I might still be inclined to say Andy Murray is still a better player than Del Potro as suggested in the title of another thread in this forum.

So Del Potro. I think he might be the biggest hitter (and I explained what I mean by that) in the history of tennis.

Thoughts?

jump on the del potro bandwagon, people lol

pmerk34
09-17-2009, 08:01 AM
Racket technology hasn't improved since the late 80's, in terms of power nothing has changed, now if you want to say players have more spin now becauswe of developments in racket string that's fair enough.

Technology has improved sine the late 80's and players hit harder BECUASE they generate more spin with poly strings.

Raphael
09-17-2009, 10:15 AM
I am curious why people seem obsessed with "of all time"

Isn't it enough that these players are good or great NOW?

BeHappy
09-17-2009, 10:51 AM
Technology has improved sine the late 80's and players hit harder BECUASE they generate more spin with poly strings.

really? They're making rackets out of something other than graphite now? Graphite rackets of all sizes and weights have been available since the late 80's.

IMO the game has actually slowed down hugely, players swing as fast as they always did, but they put more of that racket head speed into spin. In the 90's you had Sampras, Korda, Flipper, Safin, Kraijeck, Becker etc hitting flat bombs, whereas now the only top player to hit the ball like that James Blake.

Cup8489
09-17-2009, 11:04 AM
well if we're talking about 1 single massive shot, its hard to beat this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjFfuXMG0Rg

190 km/hr, 118-119 mph

Shaolin
09-17-2009, 12:29 PM
well if we're talking about 1 single massive shot, its hard to beat this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjFfuXMG0Rg

190 km/hr, 118-119 mph



This single FH gets brought up around here every single day. Its a great shot but firstly, they never show the radar, we are supposed to just believe commentator, and second, guys like Gulbis smack the ball like that with regularity, unlike Monfils who do it rarely.

35ft6
09-17-2009, 01:37 PM
Are you sure it was 03? He would have been 14 years oldYeah, it was 2006. Sorry! I thought it must have been the last August I was still living in NYC. I didn't do the math. Forgot I went back in 2006 to watch the Open.

35ft6
09-17-2009, 01:49 PM
IMO Del Potro is right there at the top 5 biggers hitters ever. What is more amazing is how effortless looking are all his strokes.Yeah, he's almost Rios like. With the same motion, his forehand goes from simply big to absolutely ballistic. When you watch replays of his 105 mph screaming winners, he looks nearly identical to the 2 or 3 shots before that.jump on the del potro bandwagon, people lol Not that I take your insult seriously, but in the interest of gloating, here's some of thew posts I wrote on the other board beginning on Sept 3, 2006:So I was at the qualies and I saw this one dude play, and currently he's only 113 in the world, but eventually, if he strengthens up, I think he'll be top 20 at least.

Juan Martin Del Potro of Argentina. Just wanted to be the first to say this.

Very stylish game and hits pretty flat for an Argentine. Capable of huge power. The x factor is his fitness. I like this kid's game. But he better strengthen up.

...

The food was overpriced and as crappy as ever, and it was stupid hot the day I went. Del Potro was the only guy I saw that clearly looked like he might be destined for the top 10, but I guess he wasn't as impressive as Verdasco and Hewitt when I first saw them.

...

When I saw him play, it seemed like he was sick or something. Not sure if it was his fitness but I kept thinking if Brian Vahaly could just push him 20 minutes more, Del Potro would default. That didn't happen though. So I guess I don't REALLY have a handle on how well he moves for a guy that tall.

But he's got a lot of filling out to do. ATPtour.com has him listed at 170 pounds, which means that if he's not careful Sally Struthers will try to sponsor him. But the shots are all there. He is deceptively powerful and every so often he would just hit a screamer off his forehand.

Deceptively powerful especially in light of his opponent, Vahaly, who is short and relies on consistency, especially off his backhand side, which is a really sweet looking soft, sort of like a, gulp, poor man's Spadea. Vahaly was swinging very hard and Del Potro was swinging so smoothly, like he wasn't trying, yet it was Vahaly who was scrambling to keep up with every shot.

Del Potro is like Safin in that way, a lot of his "power" comes from the fact that he's so deceptive. From what I saw. With Andy Roddick, he hits hard but you he can't put the ball anywhere using the same exact motion. Del Potro is more like Safin, the same swing can put the ball anywhere at all different levels of pace.

No, he's not a serve a volleyer. Can't remember if he came to the net a lot or not. He didn't really have to. Even while wheezing between points, looking like he was going to pass out, he was ripping winners and drawing unforced errors like crazy on Vahaly.

He plays with a lot of flair. Nice to see so many stylish young players on the scene right now. Potro, Monfils (his personality, not really his game style), Gasquet, and Bagdhatis. Potro, I guess, also sort of reminds me of a more stylish Berdych.

...

The way I read it, "who" is about when he's done outlining the similarities between Sam and Del Potro. From what I've seen, aside from their height, they're not that alike. They both have big serves and forehands but that's true for half the top 100. Del Potro hit the ball with flair, whereas Sam, to me, looked more mechanical. The guys who hit with a bit of flair, especially when they're that big, I might tend to assume once they get their game together, they'll be able to do much more with their shots than somebody who's mechanical. And then there's a guy like Malisse who never got his act together so never did much.I'm actually kind of surprised how good Sam was this summer. I thought he was going to be like a Jose Acasuso type big hitter who gets kind of high in the rankings, but mostly lives around the 50's. But it looks like he might be a legitimate top 15 kind of guy.

jjermann
09-19-2009, 03:32 PM
Boris Becker in the mid 90's just crushed the ball so hard I can't explain to you. All the videos of him on youtube have been taken down so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Almagro can serve 15mph faster than Del Potro and can hit the ball over 100mph pretty consistently on clay off both wings, generating his own pace. Del Potro had about 100mph of pace to work with on that return, and he hit it completely flat. Becker, Flipper and Almagro all hit the ball just as hard but with decent spin.

what? Almagro cant serve 15 mph faster, Del Potro served two 142 and 143 mph serves Madrid against Federer, while his fastest was 138 mph against Federer, he had some problems so he couldnt serve full pace his 1st serve last sets, hopefully you have seen more than one Del Potro's matches, if watch them, guy has absolutely great serve.

French open Del Potro fastest serve was 139mph while he averaged over 204km/h serves almost every match.

Usually Del Potro's 1st serve speed is around 122-125-mph, its normal, no one averages more than that except Ivo Karlovic.

False facts from you, Almagro cant hit his strokes/serve faster than Del Potro, watch more tennis! :oops:

mental midget
09-19-2009, 03:38 PM
Can't believe everyone has forgotten a young Phillippoussis....he had every bit as much or more power as any of these guys..,and the young Scud hit OUT.....just was missing other things eg. brain/dedication! lol.

you beat me to it. mark absolutely demolished the ball off both sides, and had the serve to match it. he might be my overall #1 pick for this list. about an inch shorter than delpo, probably outweighs him by 40 lbs.

ubermeyer
09-19-2009, 03:43 PM
Del Potro hits harder than Safin.

However, Monfils has the single fastest forehand ever... I believe Nadal holds the record for the fastest backhand ever and Roddick has the records for the fastest serve and overhead ever... However, on average, I think Gonzalez' forehand is faster than Del Potro's, and on average Nalbandian's and Gasquet's backhands (among others) are faster than his. Roddick, Querrey, Isner, and Karlovic (among others) have faster serves on average. But if you take the average of EVERY shot... Del Potro might be somewhere up there. Not sure if he's the biggest hitter EVER though.

latinking
09-19-2009, 03:56 PM
What amazing to me is the amount of power Delpo can get off both wings with seemingly little effort. ( just like Safin, but even more so ). I mean he looks like he is just warming up by his body langauge, but he is crushing the ball.

IMO, off both wings, on avarage, he is the biggest hitter of all time.

jjermann
09-19-2009, 04:04 PM
Del Potro hits harder than Safin.

However, Monfils has the single fastest forehand ever... I believe Nadal holds the record for the fastest backhand ever and Roddick has the records for the fastest serve and overhead ever... However, on average, I think Gonzalez' forehand is faster than Del Potro's, and on average Nalbandian's and Gasquet's backhands (among others) are faster than his. Roddick, Querrey, Isner, and Karlovic (among others) have faster serves on average. But if you take the average of EVERY shot... Del Potro might be somewhere up there. Not sure if he's the biggest hitter EVER though.

Del Potro averages same 1st serve speed as those tall guys(querrey,isner) roddick and karlovic are exceptions, i have to repeat myself and say watch more his matches! every damn guy who watched that Federer match was able to see that he wasnt hitting his 1st serve like he can hit last sets, it may have been gameplan or he had physical issues...

Conquistador
09-19-2009, 04:18 PM
Gonzalez hits it bigger all around than anyone, ever. Serves, forehands, backhands you name it. Gonzalez has always brought force to the game. His forehand is unstoppable. Fernando has always brought his game and brought it with pace and velocity, ball velocity that is.

jjermann
09-19-2009, 04:22 PM
Del Potro hits harder than Safin.

However, Monfils has the single fastest forehand ever... I believe Nadal holds the record for the fastest backhand ever and Roddick has the records for the fastest serve and overhead ever... However, on average, I think Gonzalez' forehand is faster than Del Potro's, and on average Nalbandian's and Gasquet's backhands (among others) are faster than his. Roddick, Querrey, Isner, and Karlovic (among others) have faster serves on average. But if you take the average of EVERY shot... Del Potro might be somewhere up there. Not sure if he's the biggest hitter EVER though.

Del Potro average 1st serve speed is almost always around 119-125mph, Querrey 1st serve speed around 118-125mph, Karlovic around 125-130mph, Cilic around 116-122mph, Roddick around 122-128mph.

So why do you think those guys have faster serves? i really think that you have seen del potro play only ONE TIME. and BTW Del Potro is 7th ace leaders 2009.

aviramdj
09-19-2009, 04:29 PM
Fastest forehand ever = Wayne ferreira .

no player could cope with his forehand not even sampras .
lucky for them he had a soft backhand .
he actually used to hold semi and hit the ball a cm away from the net flat in speeds that made most of the lesser players helpless .

fastest 2 hand backhand = Djokovic

He simply has the fastest 2 hand backhand ever .
he uses the full biomechanics aviable to release the shot ....
that is also his achilies heel in big matches cause the better players knows he will always go for it on the backhand side and can miss in importent points .
but agassi had a much more accurate and devestating backhand also does nalbandian .
but djoko has the fastest .

1 hand backhand = Stefan edberg .

not many actaully know this cause of all the voley but he had the most powerfull scary 1 hand backhand .

i cant decide that for certain ....
Federer can somtimes release a big one .

fastest serve we all know but who had the most effective serve ?
im not talking about aces ....
with no dubt richard kreijchek had the most effective serve ever .
he used all of his height 1.95 cm to generate a serve that even agassi couldnt do nothing against .
unfortunate for him he is one of those tall players that get injured all the time .

best voley offcourse goes to boris becker simply cause no one did the crazy stuff he did on the net .
edberg was clean and tidy but becker was just all over the place . i somtimes wonder if he needed to even play in the baseline .
jk ....
anyway thats all my opinion and im sure many of u gonna dissagree .. but its ok .. its a debate .

Breaker
09-19-2009, 05:04 PM
what? Almagro cant serve 15 mph faster, Del Potro served two 142 and 143 mph serves Madrid against Federer, while his fastest was 138 mph against Federer, he had some problems so he couldnt serve full pace his 1st serve last sets, hopefully you have seen more than one Del Potro's matches, if watch them, guy has absolutely great serve.

French open Del Potro fastest serve was 139mph while he averaged over 204km/h serves almost every match.

Usually Del Potro's 1st serve speed is around 122-125-mph, its normal, no one averages more than that except Ivo Karlovic.

False facts from you, Almagro cant hit his strokes/serve faster than Del Potro, watch more tennis! :oops:

Almagro's fastest serves are faster than Del Potro's fastest serves.As for your claim that he averaged over 204. I looked up his average speeds against his opponents at RG..

vs. Llodra - 198 kph
vs. Troicki - 201 kph
vs. Andreev - 196 kph
vs. Tsonga - 203 kph
vs. Robredo - 199 kph
vs. Federer 204 kph

Only one match did he match the 204 kph claim.

Almagro hits his serves as hard if not harder than Del Potro and also hits his backhand undoubtably harder, forehands are equal or in Del Potro's favour.

Perhaps it is you who should watch more tennis :oops:

jjermann
09-19-2009, 05:36 PM
Almagro's fastest serves are faster than Del Potro's fastest serves.As for your claim that he averaged over 204. I looked up his average speeds against his opponents at RG..

vs. Llodra - 198 kph
vs. Troicki - 201 kph
vs. Andreev - 196 kph
vs. Tsonga - 203 kph
vs. Robredo - 199 kph
vs. Federer 204 kph

Only one match did he match the 204 kph claim.

Almagro hits his serves as hard if not harder than Del Potro and also hits his backhand undoubtably harder, forehands are equal or in Del Potro's favour.

Perhaps it is you who should watch more tennis :oops:

those are excellent 1st serve speeds anyway, like i said only karlovic averages more...that guy said that isner,querrey and other big guys averaging higher 1st serve speed than Delpo...the guy obviously has not seen more than one his matches and that was us open final...im sure you were able to see his pretty sloppy 1st serves last sets? gameplan? no way, he definetely had somekind of physical issues after long two weeks.

Breaker
09-19-2009, 05:50 PM
those are excellent 1st serve speeds anyway, like i said only karlovic averages more...that guy said that isner,querrey and other big guys averaging higher 1st serve speed than Delpo...the guy obviously has not seen more than one his matches and that was us open final...im sure you were able to see his pretty sloppy 1st serves last sets? gameplan? no way, he definetely had somekind of physical issues after long two weeks.

I agree that he probably was physically fatigued and couldn't put everything into his serves in the last few sets. I think Roddick averages more on first serve as well but that's probably it. There are a few guys, such as Almagro, Berdych, Tsonga, who can average around the same as Del Potro on first serve. Querrey doesn't really come close in terms of speed but he has a slightly better serve, and Isner doesn't get the consistent power either but he obviously is one of the top 5 servers in the game today.

35ft6
09-19-2009, 06:19 PM
Seems like Del Potro was so confident in his forehand, he knew that he could go for bombs and get 60% of them in, or go for a relatively safer slice serve that he could get in 90% of the time and draw a response he could murder with his forehand. Higher percentage play when you're feeling your forehand like that.

ubermeyer
09-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Del Potro average 1st serve speed is almost always around 119-125mph, Querrey 1st serve speed around 118-125mph, Karlovic around 125-130mph, Cilic around 116-122mph, Roddick around 122-128mph.

So why do you think those guys have faster serves? i really think that you have seen del potro play only ONE TIME. and BTW Del Potro is 7th ace leaders 2009.

Querrey is 3rd in ace count, where Del Potro is 7th... I don't know why you are talking about Cilic, since I never even said he served better than Del Potro... And Karlovic and Roddick are bigger servers than Del Potro, even you agree... I have seen Del Potro play several times, I watched all his 2009 Grand Slam matches - every single one - in their entirety, and also watched a few of his other matches. And of course I've seen many youtube highlight reels but they don't really count.

ubermeyer
09-19-2009, 06:54 PM
Del Potro averages same 1st serve speed as those tall guys(querrey,isner) roddick and karlovic are exceptions, i have to repeat myself and say watch more his matches! every damn guy who watched that Federer match was able to see that he wasnt hitting his 1st serve like he can hit last sets, it may have been gameplan or he had physical issues...

I have watched quite a few of his matches. Perhaps he has a bigger serve than Querrey, but definitely not bigger than Isner.

I'm sure that you also watched the Federer match; watching that one match does not automatically mean that I based everything I said off of that match.

ClubHoUno
09-19-2009, 07:20 PM
safin and roddick in there primes hit harder than anyone else. Delpotro doesn't rival either of these players for power.

Roddicks serve is hard, yes
Roddicks forehand is....pretty hard, yes
Roddicks backhand is......down right lousy and soft like a wussy :oops:

ClubHoUno
09-19-2009, 07:26 PM
Actually, roddick won the match because of his smart play, combined with his improved backhand and his powerful forehand.

serve: roddick
Forehand:roddick
Volleys:roddick, yes, im not mad
overhead:roddick
fitness:roddick
Backhand:murray

this is a fair comparison

Compared to what :confused:

ClubHoUno
09-19-2009, 07:40 PM
You forget about Marc Philipoussis, he hit both forehand and one handed back hand VERY VERY hard and had a killer serve.

I would say that him and Delpo are the hardest hitters of all time.

Roddicks forehand is soft compared to bith these guys forehands, his backhand is a joke, so Roddick is not even worth mentioning in this thread.