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Claudius
10-08-2009, 01:09 PM
I never knew 5.5 players were this good. Their pace, spin, and form are unreal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AYuL_cXk0c

USERNAME
10-08-2009, 01:25 PM
Wow they are 5.5. They are usta rated, they really arent hitting very hard at all but consistency and placement is nice. I guess I should take into consideration that this is the end of a match and these guys aint really young so thats prob why the pace isnt so blinding.

SourStraws
10-08-2009, 01:26 PM
These guys dont look like 5.5 players to me...

S.S.

Moz
10-08-2009, 01:34 PM
Schwake is a 4.5 and the other guy is a 5.0.

The text in youtube is a little misleading.

He doesn't look like a strong 4.5 to me - in fact he looks very weak.

ahile02
10-08-2009, 01:46 PM
Yeah, I don't think these guys are 5.5's. By no means are they bad; however I have a hard time seeing them both be 5.5's

SourStraws
10-08-2009, 02:01 PM
I would rate them from 4-4.5

S.S.

Moz
10-08-2009, 02:09 PM
btw - the ratings I provided in the above post are from tennislink.

mtommer
10-08-2009, 02:19 PM
they really arent hitting very hard at all but consistency and placement is nice.

It's hard to tell how hard someone hits from video. My videos don't make look like I hit hard but I can just drop a ball and hit 80 & 90 mph. It all depends on the frame rate of the camera as well as the frame rate used to encode the video.

sennoc
10-08-2009, 02:24 PM
I would rate them from 4-4.5

S.S.

I share this opinion.

armsty
10-08-2009, 03:06 PM
I was about to say after watching this video that I felt good about myself, thinking i was 4.0 and then watching this I reckon I could take these guys. Then I see the comments :p

jrod
10-08-2009, 03:20 PM
I say 4.0. Definitely not 4.5 level in my neck of the woods. Not even close.

Hrandyrko
10-08-2009, 03:26 PM
I agree with Jrod.

coyfish
10-08-2009, 03:35 PM
Thats what I call pushing at its best from the guy in white. Guy in white gets maybe a WEAK 4.5

SourStraws
10-08-2009, 03:38 PM
Their pace, spin, and form are unreal


LOL if you're serious

S.S.

BreakPoint
10-08-2009, 03:39 PM
Both look to be no higher than 4.0's in my book.

JoelDali
10-08-2009, 03:56 PM
These guys are solid 5.5

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JVVaXmiE24g/RnnIkFAkJJI/AAAAAAAACSQ/PLsBSjNnOmQ/s400/bush+phone.bmp

ubermeyer
10-08-2009, 04:33 PM
they are low to mid 4.0s

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 05:11 PM
Both are probably atleast 4.5. Usually 4.0's dont have a good second serve. The guy in white has a good second serve, and the guy returning can hit a good two handed return. I say 4.5 atleast but the guy in the white looks exhausted.

GoaLaSSo
10-08-2009, 05:13 PM
really they are 4.0 and 4.5? the guy in the white doesn't split steps and is slow and the guy in the blue is really inconsistent. (this is all based on one short video so no way to actually tell)

I don't understand the ratings system at all. i really don't have a clue what id be then

fluffy Beaver
10-08-2009, 05:17 PM
Both are probably atleast 4.5. Usually 4.0's dont have a good second serve. The guy in white has a good second serve, and the guy returning can hit a good two handed return. I say 4.5 atleast but the guy in the white looks exhausted.

ZOMG BUT DIR USTA CARDS SAYs OTHERWISE UR WRONG ZOMG!!!!!!!

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 05:21 PM
Actually the guy serving looks more exhausted not the guy in white. They could just be 4.0's but it's hard to tell at the end of the match as it could of been a long match.

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 05:22 PM
ZOMG BUT DIR USTA CARDS SAYs OTHERWISE UR WRONG ZOMG!!!!!!!

Omgz u a haterz and never been ranked in openz. :)

Mr.Brightside
10-08-2009, 05:24 PM
umm these guys aren't really that good...

i think i could take them.

fluffy Beaver
10-08-2009, 05:26 PM
Omgz u a haterz and never been ranked in openz. :)

for anyone that wants to read the ignant Ultra

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=291508&page=7

doom
10-08-2009, 05:29 PM
These guys are 5.5 I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0BYcWqIUeg

They're always seeded in money tournaments in sydney and play some futures etc

mtommer
10-08-2009, 05:30 PM
but the guy in the white looks exhausted.

I figured more likely really pi*sed (at himself).

Z-Man
10-08-2009, 05:34 PM
The footwork gives it away. You never know how good people are unless you play them, but neither of these guys is a 5.0 singles player. Maybe one guy is 5.0 doubles if he has a perfect first volley. 5.0 players don't have to hit the ball hard, but they hit deep, and their footwork is excellent.

wyutani
10-08-2009, 05:34 PM
seems like a solid 4.5

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 05:38 PM
for anyone that wants to read the ignant Ultra

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=291508&page=7


These guys in this video are better than the vids in that thread.

autumn_leaf
10-08-2009, 05:50 PM
reluctant to believe they are 5.5, also that was like a 2.5 racquet throw lol . he even tries to make up for it by throwing his hat =)

Bud
10-08-2009, 05:59 PM
No way these guys are 5.5 NTRP.

slice bh compliment
10-08-2009, 06:06 PM
I never knew 5.5 players were this good. Their pace, spin, and form are unreal

Yes, they are like golden gods.

But...if you are 4.5+, you're thinking, nah.
There was that odd little volley that impressed me. Trash form, easy to read, but completely effective since the near court guy was way off court. Good close.

TennisVet
10-08-2009, 06:08 PM
No way. These guys are 4.0-4.5 but definitely not more than 4.5

[d]ragon
10-08-2009, 06:12 PM
Guys! These guys are 5.5!







(combined NTRP :D)

greg280
10-08-2009, 06:13 PM
you have got to be absolutely kidding... nice squash shot forehand save after that 9 mile an hour shot from the guy on the other side of the net. oh, geez, they are tired, when fresh i edit the 9 mile an hour to 14 miles an hour.

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 06:23 PM
you have got to be absolutely kidding... nice squash shot forehand save after that 9 mile an hour shot from the guy on the other side of the net. oh, geez, they are tired, when fresh i edit the 9 mile an hour to 14 miles an hour.



These guys would dominate chris evert.

BreakPoint
10-08-2009, 06:29 PM
Both are probably atleast 4.5. Usually 4.0's dont have a good second serve. The guy in white has a good second serve, and the guy returning can hit a good two handed return. I say 4.5 atleast but the guy in the white looks exhausted.
Sounds like you've never seen any real 4.0's in California play.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt by saying that they are no higher than 4.0's. The truth is that I know of many 3.5's around here that can play better than that.

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 06:35 PM
Sounds like you've never seen any real 4.0's in California play.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt by saying that they are no higher than 4.0's. The truth is that I know of many 3.5's around here that can play better than that.


Watch the video again, the guy in white can hit a good backhand. Although alot of 4.0s can. We didn't get to see the guy in white serve.

4.0's in california? I don't care what state you are in a 4.0 is a 4.0. Sure some states are stronger but if you really are a advanced player nobody will admit they are just a 4.0. Although i'm sure many 4.0's can beat some who claim that are 4.5 around here.

Ballsboy
10-08-2009, 06:38 PM
LOL, if the guys in the first vid are 5.5, then i'm a weak 5.0 XD.

I think they must be strong 4.0 or weak 4.5... Although I don't know much about NTRP because the definitions are incomplete and generic.

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 07:09 PM
LOL, if the guys in the first vid are 5.5, then i'm a weak 5.0 XD.

I think they must be strong 4.0 or weak 4.5... Although I don't know much about NTRP because the definitions are incomplete and generic.

Well if you look them up they are ranked and win tournaments in 4.5-5.5 singles in usta in California. Maybe break point plays in a 'tougher' part of california compared to san diego.


chad basinger
don schwake

UnforcedError
10-08-2009, 07:25 PM
Sounds like you've never seen any real 4.0's in California play.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt by saying that they are no higher than 4.0's. The truth is that I know of many 3.5's around here that can play better than that.

Did you miss Moz's reply. He looked them up on tennislink, one is a 5.0 and the other is a 4.5 and they are from San Diego. Kind of blows away the notion that So Cal players are better than elsewhere at a given NTRP. We just need for people to post similar vids from Florida and Atlanta and we can do away with the myth. I'm from So Cal by the way.

BreakPoint
10-08-2009, 07:27 PM
Watch the video again, the guy in white can hit a good backhand. Although alot of 4.0s can. We didn't get to see the guy in white serve.

4.0's in california? I don't care what state you are in a 4.0 is a 4.0. Sure some states are stronger but if you really are a advanced player nobody will admit they are just a 4.0. Although i'm sure many 4.0's can beat some who claim that are 4.5 around here.
That guy had no forehand whatsoever. I know lots of 4.0's here that have great forehands AND backhands. In fact, there are ex-college players playing 4.0 here. Oh, and nobody needs to admit what they are because the computer gives them their rating for them.

BreakPoint
10-08-2009, 07:31 PM
Did you miss Moz's reply. He looked them up on tennislink, one is a 5.0 and the other is a 4.5 and they are from San Diego. Kind of blows away the notion that So Cal players are better than elsewhere at a given NTRP. We just need for people to post similar vids from Florida and Atlanta and we can do away with the myth. I'm from So Cal by the way.
Both of those guys would get killed by just about any true 4.5 computer rated player in NorCal.

The only possible explanations are that they play in a weak area or they have a false rating (there are ways to achieve this) or they are doubles specialists who never play singles.

BreakPoint
10-08-2009, 08:00 PM
Well if you look them up they are ranked and win tournaments in 4.5-5.5 singles in usta in California. Maybe break point plays in a 'tougher' part of california compared to san diego.


chad basinger
don schwake
OK, I looked them up.

This guy Schwake has never played a USTA tournament and he only has played one season of USTA league tennis in 2008 on a 5.5 team. He only played two matches and went 0-2. He only played one singles match and he lost 6-0, 6-0.

He is NOT a real 4.5 even though that's what the computer rates him. That's because the computer only has very limited data to determine his rating since it's based on only 2 matches. He self-rated himself at 5.5. Since he got killed, the computer knocked him down 2 levels to 4.5. If he kept playing more matches, the computer would continue to knock him lower until it found his true rating.

This guy Basinger played all of his league tennis years ago in NYC and Long Island. I don't think Manhattan is a very strong area and he played in the 4.5 leagues there.

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 09:15 PM
OK, I looked them up.

This guy Schwake has never played a USTA tournament and he only has played one season of USTA league tennis in 2008 on a 5.5 team. He only played two matches and went 0-2. He only played one singles match and he lost 6-0, 6-0.

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/results.aspx?T=70743



This guy Basinger played all of his league tennis years ago in NYC and Long Island. I don't think Manhattan is a very strong area and he played in the 4.5 leagues there.

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/results.aspx?T=67179

BreakPoint
10-08-2009, 09:26 PM
http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/results.aspx?T=70743





http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/results.aspx?T=67179

I didn't see how you could search for a person's name on TennisLink to find the tournaments that he's played, so I looked up Schwake on the NorCal website: http://www.ustanorcal.com/playermatches.asp?id=140475&seasonid=0

In any case, how do we know what the ratings of the people they played against in these tournaments? Lots of people play up in tournaments.

Ultra2HolyGrail
10-08-2009, 09:46 PM
I didn't see how you could search for a person's name on TennisLink to find the tournaments that he's played, so I looked up Schwake on the NorCal website: http://www.ustanorcal.com/playermatches.asp?id=140475&seasonid=0

In any case, how do we know what the ratings of the people they played against in these tournaments? Lots of people play up in tournaments.

Chad basinger 5.5 record
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=655983&p=4


In any case, how do we know what the ratings of the people they played against in these tournaments? Lots of people play up in tournaments.

They could be playing senior or older ntrp tournaments there? 4.5-5.5 is a pretty big gap so i don't see how they could be playing both 4.5 and 5.5 tournaments. Heck if i know. I just think the guy in white is atleast a 4.5 based on his backhand and footwork. He is fast and has advanced footwork, but yeah his forehand was nothing but some weird slice shots. A few points don't always tell the whole story though.

gunbuster
10-08-2009, 10:02 PM
I'd challenge some of the doubters in this thread to post match videos -- unedited. Everyone can look like a 5.0 when you clip out all the unforced errors. Especially if you are just rallying! These guys, though they don't look like they're crushing the ball, are definitely directing the ball around and they aren't giving the points away.

I used to think as many of the posters here did -- I have good looking strokes and a great service motion. But I could never achieve much tournament success. It wasn't until I really looked at my videos with a critical eye -- noticing how many points I *lost* instead of relishing the points where I played well. Tennis players are a funny sort. We tend to visualize and remember the points where we hit great shots -- we have a very short memory for the ones we dump into the net or float long...

35ft6
10-08-2009, 10:21 PM
The guy in white looks awful.

moroni
10-09-2009, 12:20 AM
huh 5.5s they are 4.0s just take a look at the 65-70 mph first serve i could bagel these guys anyday im only 4.5--working my way to 5 and i serve a second serve as good/ lil better than their first -- you clearly dunnu wt 5.5 is

baek57
10-09-2009, 01:49 AM
Chad basinger 5.5 record
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=655983&p=4




They could be playing senior or older ntrp tournaments there? 4.5-5.5 is a pretty big gap so i don't see how they could be playing both 4.5 and 5.5 tournaments. Heck if i know. I just think the guy in white is atleast a 4.5 based on his backhand and footwork. He is fast and has advanced footwork, but yeah his forehand was nothing but some weird slice shots. A few points don't always tell the whole story though.

I don't know how advanced you think his footwork can be when he doesn't even take a split step on the return.

GuyClinch
10-09-2009, 04:51 AM
Tournament play tends to overrate guys a bit. But I have to say the comment about not being California 3.5s and then finding out they were from San Diego was priceless.

California IS better at tennis. They have more 6.0, 5.5s etc. Outside of teaching pros and such there just aren't alot of 5.5s around NYC. And most of them moved here from Florida, Texas and California...

But the absolute levels are around the same. Levels go DOWN from the pros. So they remain relatively constant everywhere. If California players at 3.5 are really 4.5s in say PA then are 4.5s in California really 5.5s in PA? Are 5.5s in California ready for the tour?!

Clearly from this video we can see they are NOT!

Pete

dr325i
10-09-2009, 09:17 AM
huh 5.5s they are 4.0s just take a look at the 65-70 mph first serve i could bagel these guys anyday im only 4.5--working my way to 5 and i serve a second serve as good/ lil better than their first -- you clearly dunnu wt 5.5 is

Where are you located?

chess9
10-09-2009, 09:41 AM
In the last week, I've played two 5.5 players with entirely different styles. One of the guys was serving 120+mph bombs for his fastest serves, with about 90-100 mph kick serves for his second serve. I could barely return his SLOW serves. Also, his service return was nearly flawless. I hit one really hard first serve to his forehand and he clocked it back at me Blake/Gonzo style at about 100 mph. The second guy was an ex-Argentinian footballer (soccer) who was the fastest guy I've ever seen on a court. He served an 80 mph topspin serve and was AT THE NET instantly. He made Federer look like a polio victim. His strokes were all looping and high and not really very hard, but he never missed.

These two guys are not 5.5 players, IMHO. If they are, there is something seriously wrong with the local ratings. Both of them could play 4.5 here in Florida, however.


-Robert

chess9
10-09-2009, 09:46 AM
I'd challenge some of the doubters in this thread to post match videos -- unedited. Everyone can look like a 5.0 when you clip out all the unforced errors. Especially if you are just rallying! These guys, though they don't look like they're crushing the ball, are definitely directing the ball around and they aren't giving the points away.

I used to think as many of the posters here did -- I have good looking strokes and a great service motion. But I could never achieve much tournament success. It wasn't until I really looked at my videos with a critical eye -- noticing how many points I *lost* instead of relishing the points where I played well. Tennis players are a funny sort. We tend to visualize and remember the points where we hit great shots -- we have a very short memory for the ones we dump into the net or float long...

Neither of those guys have any weapons, except possibly for the short guy's speed. But he totally dinks his forehand. Good grief, I've seen better forehands on 3.5 players!

I don't know. I'm sure I'm wrong, because I'm always being told I'm wrong, so I'll shut up. ;)

-Robert

chess9
10-09-2009, 09:50 AM
Both of those guys would get killed by just about any true 4.5 computer rated player in NorCal.

The only possible explanations are that they play in a weak area or they have a false rating (there are ways to achieve this) or they are doubles specialists who never play singles.

I agree. They could play 4.5, but not at the top.

-Robert

Venetian
10-09-2009, 09:50 AM
Neither of those guys have any weapons, except possibly for the short guy's speed. But he totally dinks his forehand. Good grief, I've seen better forehands on 3.5 players!

I don't know. I'm sure I'm wrong, because I'm always being told I'm wrong, so I'll shut up. ;)

-Robert

I'm with you.

jrod
10-09-2009, 10:23 AM
I agree. They could play 4.5, but not at the top.

-Robert

From what I've seen, they'd get beat pretty bad if they played USTA singles at a 4.5 level in New England.

onehandbh
10-09-2009, 11:25 AM
They are from San Diego, which is a smaller tennis community than, LA/Orange County and the rest of socal and about 2 hrs away.

The shorter guy looked like you played a purely defensive game.
The taller guy look okay but moves like the late great
Andre the Giant.

t-bird
10-09-2009, 08:38 PM
I gotta say guys - I've been playing for about a year and a half, I'm in my early thirties, and get to the court 1-3 times a week (more last year). I feel I'm 3.0 - 3.5 and I'm pretty sure I could hang with the guy in the white shirt. He just seems to be dinking/pushing the ball...?

DNShade
10-09-2009, 09:24 PM
I must say - you guys out here are something. Someone posts a vid - and then you all critique the he11 out of it - trying to come up with their rating - and then saying if they are "real" players they'd have a ranking and results. Then someone posts a vid and their actual rankings and links to their results and still they are attacked and their level disputed. Wow.

You all need to video yourselves (and look at it) and play some real events and get yourselves some results. As has been said before - it doesn't really matter what someone looks like - all about the W and the end of the day. Now I'm not saying these guys look great or perfect - far from it - but they do seem to have the results don't they? And results talk.

I'm not even one who cares about 5.0 or 5.5 or 6.0...but lots of threads out here seem to be - and then some verified guys with rankings that can be looked up appear and viola - they are all full of it right? Must be 3.5s right? Why don't you 3.5s or 4.0 guys pop down to SD sometime and enter an event either of these guys are playing in and see how you do?

Whatever. I'll be out on the court.

ZPTennis
10-09-2009, 09:58 PM
Has is it occured to anyone that this video looks staged?

It looks as if the guys playing are purposely trying to look bad and are actually much better than what they show in the video.

There is something definitely off. lol

Inanity
10-09-2009, 10:11 PM
Has is it occured to anyone that this video looks staged?

It looks as if the guys playing are purposely trying to look bad and are actually much better than what they show in the video.

There is something definitely off. lol

Maybe you're onto something.

I think some of the crazy ratings people give in this forum are absolutely laughable, but the thing that really stands out to me is the guy in the foreground and his forehand. He slices most of them and just slap-pushes the one at 1:03 2.0-style. And it's not like they were desperation shots--he had time to set up for most of them. I have no idea how that would stand up to any 5.5, or even most 4.5's for that matter, yet the results posted in this thread seem to speak for themselves.

DNShade
10-09-2009, 11:07 PM
...but the thing that really stands out to me is the guy in the foreground and his forehand. He slices most of them and just slap-pushes the one at 1:03 2.0-style. And it's not like they were desperation shots--he had time to set up for most of them. I have no idea how that would stand up to any 5.5, or even most 4.5's for that matter, yet the results posted in this thread seem to speak for themselves.

Fabrice Santoro anyone? Just because a forehand is hit with slice doesn't mean it's not any good. Actually is a very good shot and will give lots of players - even at high levels - lots of trouble.

I don't think it was staged (but stranger things have happened) It just looks like the end of a long match perhaps - both guys a bit winded maybe.

crash1929
10-09-2009, 11:08 PM
these guys are like more like the 4.0 players at my club. The 5.5's (there aren't many) are brutal.

Moz
10-10-2009, 12:15 AM
Then someone posts a vid and their actual rankings and links to their results and still they are attacked and their level disputed. Wow.



You do need to go and read the links on the 3rd page.

DNShade
10-10-2009, 12:24 AM
You do need to go and read the links on the 3rd page.

How is that? I already looked at Chad's page and it looked like he's been playing and doing fine at that level and even has a few tourney wins right? Isn't he ranked 6th in 5.5?

Bud
10-10-2009, 12:26 AM
OK, I looked them up.

This guy Schwake has never played a USTA tournament and he only has played one season of USTA league tennis in 2008 on a 5.5 team. He only played two matches and went 0-2. He only played one singles match and he lost 6-0, 6-0.

He is NOT a real 4.5 even though that's what the computer rates him. That's because the computer only has very limited data to determine his rating since it's based on only 2 matches. He self-rated himself at 5.5. Since he got killed, the computer knocked him down 2 levels to 4.5. If he kept playing more matches, the computer would continue to knock him lower until it found his true rating.

This guy Basinger played all of his league tennis years ago in NYC and Long Island. I don't think Manhattan is a very strong area and he played in the 4.5 leagues there.

I think many of us suspected this. I'm pretty competitive with 4.0s, lose to many 4.5's and I know I could be competitive with both of these guys. I'm in SD, too.

There is no way in hell either of these guys is currently a 5.0 much less a 5.5

Moz
10-10-2009, 12:33 AM
How is that? I already looked at Chad's page and it looked like he's been playing and doing fine at that level and even has a few tourney wins right? Isn't he ranked 6th in 5.5?

My only point in doing so was to point out that the gentlemen are rated 4.5 and 5.0. That's a good level of play.

The thread title says "solid 5.5 players" - I was merely pointing out that they are not rated at that level and that has probably contributed to the negative reactions.

DNShade
10-10-2009, 12:35 AM
My only point in doing so was to point out that the gentlemen are rated 4.5 and 5.0. That's a good level of play.

The thread title says "solid 5.5 players" - I was merely pointing out that they are not rated at that level and that has probably contributed to the negative reactions.

Gotcha. But it looks like he has an 8-4 record at 5.5 right with two tournament titles? Seems at least quasi solid...

Again - I have no vested interest in this either way.

Inanity
10-10-2009, 12:43 AM
Fabrice Santoro anyone? Just because a forehand is hit with slice doesn't mean it's not any good. Actually is a very good shot and will give lots of players - even at high levels - lots of trouble.


They aren't effective slices he's hitting though. They're doink floaters that just sit up begging to be pummeled.

So many videos posted here are really deceiving, but this one struck me as particularly odd. There's a lot of grey area in the 3.5-4.5 range, but these guys are supposed to be 5.5's where players generally look quite polished with good mechanics, a lot of pace, and a viable weapon.

DNShade
10-10-2009, 12:57 AM
They aren't effective slices he's hitting though. They're doink floaters that just sit up begging to be pummeled.

So many videos posted here are really deceiving, but this one struck me as particularly odd. There's a lot of grey area in the 3.5-4.5 range, but these guys are supposed to be 5.5's where players generally look quite polished with good mechanics, a lot of pace, and a viable weapon.

I hear ya - there are some dodgy looking shots in there - but in match play - or at the end of a long match whatever works, works. But my eyes my be a bit off since I'm around top D1 and pro level players all the time so judging them by that scale is not fair either.

Unless we talk to those guys, we probably won't know the story is - if there is one. I was just going by looking at his record - which seems pretty legit unless there are only like 6 people playing 5.5 in SD.

moroni
10-10-2009, 05:10 AM
Where are you located?

I dont live in US XD

blackfrido
10-31-2009, 09:57 AM
these guys are like more like the 4.0 players at my club. The 5.5's (there aren't many) are brutal.

not only at your club!

fps
10-31-2009, 11:39 AM
everyone can hit the odd million dollar forehand. these guys are very consistent, and that's one of the absolute keys to being a competitive/decent tennis player, rather than a weekend hero. they aren't 5.5 IMO, based on the limited footage/ ideas i have about where a player should be at to be 5.5.

HOWEVER

half the posters here need to get their heads out of the sand. they seem to have very high opinions of themselves and believe they have a god-given right to **** off other people, who aren't here to defend themselves.

5263
10-31-2009, 12:07 PM
We have to remember there are all kind of exceptions out there that defy logic. You see guys at 4.0 that look like 4.5-5.0
and see 5.0s that seem like weak 4.0s. It's just not always apparent or even correct, as it is not near a perfect system.

Consistency and matchups play a big part and some are dubs players more, vs others that are more singles oriented. You sure can't look at a vid and tell more than just rating what you see in that vid, which doesn't come close to the whole story. It's almost like we need a dual rating system that shows technical rating (appearance) along beside competitive rating. (results)

I know over the last 15 years, I've beaten a bunch of guys that I would have agreed with everyone, that they were way better than me at the time we played. Call it consistency, hustle, or foot speed, but for me, it's trying to make sure they don't get to do what they do best on the court. I always love stealing a match like that, but don't have any illusions that people were going to think I was a better player of the two in the normal sense of how it is thought of. Maybe that is the case for these 2 players?

kimbahpnam
10-31-2009, 12:18 PM
never seen so many fh slices

mental midget
10-31-2009, 12:44 PM
I think many of us suspected this. I'm pretty competitive with 4.0s, lose to many 4.5's and I know I could be competitive with both of these guys. I'm in SD, too.

There is no way in hell either of these guys is currently a 5.0 much less a 5.5

yep. this isn't about tearing anyone down, but the thread title was extremely misleading. good 5.5 players are . . . really good. it's the kind of tennis people might even pay to watch. these two guys are clowning out there, slapping floaty forehand slices, etc. It's just not high-level competitive tennis.

WBF
10-31-2009, 04:52 PM
I usually rate leaning towards the possibility of higher... Unless these guys were holding back, I wouldn't guess they were 5.0, let alone 5.5.

Angles weren't very good (e.g. hitting down the middle), not too much depth or spin that I could perceive... just... didn't seem that good. Balance and footwork, particularly on the close guy, seemed pretty poor.

Blake0
10-31-2009, 05:52 PM
4.5 at best..they have good ball placement while being fairly consistent, but one of them can't put away balls, and the other is a retriever. Pretty bad mph on serve..for 4.5's..

Rui
10-31-2009, 06:18 PM
IMO, it's impossible to be a 5.5 without split-stepping. However, many raters will ask what level you want to play at and be very forgiving.

detroiter
10-31-2009, 06:25 PM
No way 5.5, more like 4.0.

sh@de
10-31-2009, 06:37 PM
Er... that was more like 4.0 level of play...

topher.juan
10-31-2009, 08:38 PM
4.0... I see uncertainty and recovery in their shots, yet they have an understanding of shots/tactics, at the 5.0-5.5 level shots should be more aggressive and made with confidence, serves have pace and 2nd serves kick/twist (see how he doesn't swing as fast (or faster) at the second serve?). I'm not trying to knock their playing, it looks like they're having fun in their series, heck I wish I had a hitting partner to have a 6-6 score against (few 4.0's+ play where I'm from). These videos are good for people to get an idea of what someone's rating is. Want to see a solid 5.5? look at the 'this guy is solid' thread, he's got the confidence and aggression in his shots that's nowhere to be seen here.

Vyse
10-31-2009, 09:07 PM
very disapointed. the guy that one didnt really win from what i saw. the other guy lost which is what generally happens in tennis but i was still looking for something mroe

Azzurri
11-01-2009, 10:25 AM
These guys in this video are better than the vids in that thread.

which video?

Fedace
11-01-2009, 10:31 AM
Their serves doesn't look like 5.5 to me.

Ripper014
11-01-2009, 10:35 AM
If we are talking about the video from the original post I would rate them somewhere between a 3.5 and a 4.0

blackfrido
11-01-2009, 10:58 AM
I guess the first poster must be a little sarcastic at least when he says "I never knew 5.5 players were this good". Their pace, spin, and form are unreal" or he does not even know how to hold a racquet to have this kind of opinion!

Rob_C
11-01-2009, 11:05 AM
I hear ya - there are some dodgy looking shots in there - but in match play - or at the end of a long match whatever works, works. But my eyes my be a bit off since I'm around top D1 and pro level players all the time so judging them by that scale is not fair either.

Unless we talk to those guys, we probably won't know the story is - if there is one. I was just going by looking at his record - which seems pretty legit unless there are only like 6 people playing 5.5 in SD.

DN, what would you say your rating is??? B/C, I think these guys would get crushed if they played you.

Also, what would you say the NTRP of a top 20 Sectional 16 yr old is?? B/c, again, these guys get smoked if they play someone like that. There's a reason why some tournaments forbid jrs from playing anything but Opens.

Inner Game
11-01-2009, 11:23 AM
I never knew 5.5 players were this good. Their pace, spin, and form are unreal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AYuL_cXk0c

They think their 5.5 they wouldn't win match in a real 4.5 league...just slightly better then 4.0.....and as usual the pusher wins at lower levels...lol

blackfrido
11-01-2009, 01:43 PM
They think their 5.5 they wouldn't win match in a real 4.5 league...just slightly better then 4.0.....and as usual the pusher wins at lower levels...lol

is there any explanation how these pushers always win?

Fedace
11-01-2009, 01:45 PM
is there any explanation how these pushers always win?

What level do they win at ?? Is it a USTA league or local league ?:confused:

blackfrido
11-01-2009, 03:13 PM
what level? we're talking about these guys playing in that video.
Clearly one has better stokes, the other is a pusher "pusher wins".
The thread is called Video of solid 5.5 players.

ubermeyer
11-01-2009, 03:32 PM
I never knew 5.5 players were this good. Their pace, spin, and form are unreal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AYuL_cXk0c

it's so far between them and a 6.0, it's not even funny...

6.0s play futures. These guys would get double bageled in any ITF event

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-01-2009, 03:44 PM
solid 4.Os

equinox
12-24-2009, 06:59 PM
lol, two of those bounce smashes would never have come back at 5.0 level. The blue guy drops his bundle after hitting fh into the net?? wth show some mental ability.

Blue guy copied my 2.5 service action...So abbreviated and uncoordinated.

Both players dropped many attackable balls inside the service line from slow/medium pace shots.

Being fair i'd give them 4.0 level but most definitively not 5.5, 5.0, 4.5 or 3.0. consistent enough for 3.5+.

Blake0
12-24-2009, 08:44 PM
I went to a tennis center recently..and i saw a 10 year old girl play like this :shock:.

DownTheLine
12-24-2009, 09:10 PM
Tony larson- http://vimeo.com/3231428


NTRP: 5.5-6.0

WHITE SHIRT!

PrinceJoJo
12-24-2009, 10:53 PM
lol, two of those bounce smashes would never have come back at 5.0 level. The blue guy drops his bundle after hitting fh into the net?? wth show some mental ability.

Blue guy copied my 2.5 service action...So abbreviated and uncoordinated.

Both players dropped many attackable balls inside the service line from slow/medium pace shots.

Being fair i'd give them 4.0 level but most definitively not 5.5, 5.0, 4.5 or 3.0. consistent enough for 3.5+.

I agree. I know a couple of 3.5s in Western Washington that could rip on those two.:lol:

ReopeningWed
12-24-2009, 11:02 PM
By San Diego they mean South Dakota :D

Ripper014
12-25-2009, 09:17 AM
I am really just hoping this is all a bad joke... I am sure many people in San Diego would be embarrassed about this, though they are relatively steady... at most maybe around a low 4.0...?

Geezer Guy
12-25-2009, 09:47 AM
Tony larson- http://vimeo.com/3231428


NTRP: 5.5-6.0

WHITE SHIRT!

Yeah - THAT's more like a 5.0+ player.

equinox
12-25-2009, 11:12 AM
In the below utube match these guys are playing in the difficult conditions and are computer rated itn 8 which converts to ntrp 2.5 levels. I believe either would be competitive against both don and chad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeuR25r-D0Q

Andres
12-25-2009, 02:10 PM
LOL, if the guys in the first vid are 5.5, then i'm a weak 5.0 XD.

I think they must be strong 4.0 or weak 4.5... Although I don't know much about NTRP because the definitions are incomplete and generic.
En qué categoría jugás? Yo mas o menos he armado una tabla para ver las equivalencias entre el NTRP y las categorías de la AAT :)

blackfrido
12-25-2009, 04:13 PM
En qué categoría jugás? Yo mas o menos he armado una tabla para ver las equivalencias entre el NTRP y las categorías de la AAT :)

Andres, Feliz Navidad!!! En que categoria me pones de la AAT. Aca soy 4.5

Ken Honecker
12-25-2009, 11:12 PM
These guys are playing in the wind and heat and are officially computer rated no better than 2.5 with an itn 8 / 8.5 conversion. Yet i firmly believe either would give these posers hell at 3.0 3.5 4.0.. so let the robust debate continue. lol dnshade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeuR25r-D0Q

Interesting service motion.

Davis937
12-26-2009, 01:05 AM
... not the most powerful, graceful, or classical strokes around ... but ... as we all know there are no style points awarded ... the ratings are based on how you perform in match play ... I can see how both players probably do fairly well in match competition ... they both play a controlled game, have good placement, and don't make a lot of unnecessary or unforced errors ... BUT ... I still don't know about a 5.5 rating ... SURVEY SAYS ... 4.5+

Kaz00
12-26-2009, 06:58 AM
if these guys are 5.5 than i am 7.0~!

equinox
12-27-2009, 04:23 AM
If don and chads recorded results speak for themselves then i can't really argue much against them being lower than 4.5. They're winning so it doesn't matter how they look oncourt. I've played and watched 4.5+ with ugly games which were extremely effective and unsettling. Just serve volley chip charges repeated 3 shot exchanges. there slice serves and ankle high slices made passes difficult. made for short frustrating tennis.

So maybe these guys game just works, even without the pretty decorations.

psYcon
12-27-2009, 08:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcF_kJWXS0c

The person doing the lobs is Jack Bucco, who has the weirdest way I have ever seen of playing tennis. He only moonballs and lobs, yet he is rated 4.5 and routinely hands bagels to other 4.5s. 4.0s against him usually lose by double bagels.

papatenis
12-27-2009, 09:07 AM
I never knew 5.5 players were this good. Their pace, spin, and form are unreal

Maybe on the East Coast they are 5.5, but her in socal they would be 3.5-4.0.

5263
12-27-2009, 09:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcF_kJWXS0c

The person doing the lobs is Jack Bucco, who has the weirdest way I have ever seen of playing tennis. He only moonballs and lobs, yet he is rated 4.5 and routinely hands bagels to other 4.5s. 4.0s against him usually lose by double bagels.

Wow, I'm amazed at the strength threads like this have.

Sure would love to play that guy in dubs. His lobs vs my ovrheads. It would be a fun and interesting match up.

Bashi
12-27-2009, 10:59 AM
i have no idea how that lob guy is a 4.5. you would think by 4.5 people would be able to put those away. does he play 4.5 singles or just doubles?

psYcon
12-27-2009, 11:06 AM
i have no idea how that lob guy is a 4.5. you would think by 4.5 people would be able to put those away. does he play 4.5 singles or just doubles?

http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB0061D744E0C6CB0594EBEAD9D82F5E3D0D&CYear=2009

Trust me, I have seen 4.5s play against him and suffer. He plays with Gamma Big Bubba and strings his racquets at 20lbs. He totally takes out the pace out of every groundstroke and returns with a high lob. On top of that he has amazing court coverage with his over-sized stick. He usually plays doubles but also dominates in singles. The only way to beat him is s&v and chip and charge, and be really good at putting away tough overheads.

user92626
12-27-2009, 11:26 AM
http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB0061D744E0C6CB0594EBEAD9D82F5E3D0D&CYear=2009

Trust me, I have seen 4.5s play against him and suffer. He plays with Gamma Big Bubba and strings his racquets at 20lbs. He totally takes out the pace out of every groundstroke and returns with a high lob. On top of that he has amazing court coverage with his over-sized stick. He usually plays doubles but also dominates in singles. The only way to beat him is s&v and chip and charge, and be really good at putting away tough overheads.

Look at the kind of shots coming at him. They bounce on the virtue of their own weight and pressure. The guy is able to fully look and "aim" the racket at it and hit. Hmm...

YOu don't need overhead to beat him. Just hit groundstroke shots that go horizontally and deep. Making a lob out of those shots is a low percentage. Also, I wonder what'd happen if a shot coming at him is fast enough that he can't "aim" his racket face at it?

papatenis
12-27-2009, 11:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcF_kJWXS0c

The person doing the lobs is Jack Bucco, who has the weirdest way I have ever seen of playing tennis. He only moonballs and lobs, yet he is rated 4.5 and routinely hands bagels to other 4.5s. 4.0s against him usually lose by double bagels.

Why would anybody waste their time playing with/against him.

How is he rated 4.5?

You have to have master other parts of your game to obtain a 4.5 rating???

mtommer
12-27-2009, 12:26 PM
Why would anybody waste their time playing with/against him.

How is he rated 4.5?

You have to have master other parts of your game to obtain a 4.5 rating???

You only have to beat other "4.5 rated" players and 4.5 tennis players aren't very athletic or they aren't good at the game. If they were the guy wouldn't be able to get away with the lob shots let alone get a racquet on the ball to begin with.

AlpineCadet
12-27-2009, 01:02 PM
PAGING J011yroger!

stanfordtennis alum
12-27-2009, 01:06 PM
OP: these players are def not 5.5 players... 4.5 on a good day

psYcon
12-27-2009, 09:01 PM
Why would anybody waste their time playing with/against him.

How is he rated 4.5?

You have to have master other parts of your game to obtain a 4.5 rating???

check the usta link I sent, you will see how he has consistently beaten other 4.5 players . and this is in TX.

Zachol82
12-27-2009, 09:19 PM
I never knew 5.5 players were this good. Their pace, spin, and form are unreal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AYuL_cXk0c

I'm sure a high NTRP rating doesn't necessarily have anything to do with power. And I do realize that these guys are hitting pretty affective shots and it probably looks better in real life...but there's no way they are 5.5 players.

Their forms are horrible. Their shots selections are horrible. The person who was serving had a mediocre serve. The winner of the match, Chad, was just trying to get the ball back into play, randomly. It seems that he has no control over his shots, just trying to get everything back, which works...but again, NOT 5.5 material.

These guys look about 4.0, maybe not even.

JoelDali
12-27-2009, 10:12 PM
Best. Thread. Ever.

Ultra2HolyGrail
12-27-2009, 10:44 PM
http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB0061D744E0C6CB0594EBEAD9D82F5E3D0D&CYear=2009

Trust me, I have seen 4.5s play against him and suffer. He plays with Gamma Big Bubba and strings his racquets at 20lbs. He totally takes out the pace out of every groundstroke and returns with a high lob. On top of that he has amazing court coverage with his over-sized stick. He usually plays doubles but also dominates in singles. The only way to beat him is s&v and chip and charge, and be really good at putting away tough overheads.


I've never seen no 4.5 play like that. I have seen 5.0's get into moonball battles but this guy looks like 3.0-3.5. I can not imagine that a solid 4.0 could not beat this guy easily. There is nothing on those shots.

dlesser13
12-28-2009, 12:21 AM
I've never seen no 4.5 play like that. I have seen 5.0's get into moonball battles but this guy looks like 3.0-3.5. I can not imagine that a solid 4.0 could not beat this guy easily. There is nothing on those shots.

Checked a few of this guys matches, he pretty much dominated a rated 4.5, 2 and 3, and I've seen the guy he beat in action, a nasty lefty who can hit with some serious pace. The guys record is a testament to how his game works.Very sound against 4.5 and even 5.0 rated players, although it seems like he would be easy to beat, the game he plays is obviously working very well for him.

skyzoo
12-28-2009, 04:22 AM
Best. Thread. Ever.
SIIIIKKKEEE

sh@de
12-28-2009, 04:37 AM
If those guys were 5.5... I'd be a pro! :D

sruckauf
12-28-2009, 02:45 PM
In my town/region, both these guys are strong 3.0, or weak 3.5. Any of the guys in our 3.5 would smoke either one.

I can see them being rated a 4.0 in some towns where participation is low.

But to have them at a 4.5 or greater in any town, IMO, is just plain B.S.

JoelDali
12-28-2009, 02:48 PM
These guys are sponsored by SlapChop.

Solid 5.5

http://www.shopgetorganized.com/images/products/P35801B.jpg

AlpineCadet
12-28-2009, 02:54 PM
JD should post a video of himself :)

EP1998
12-28-2009, 02:57 PM
http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/TennisLinkReports.asp?Level=I&MemberID=DB0061D744E0C6CB0594EBEAD9D82F5E3D0D&CYear=2009

Trust me, I have seen 4.5s play against him and suffer. He plays with Gamma Big Bubba and strings his racquets at 20lbs. He totally takes out the pace out of every groundstroke and returns with a high lob. On top of that he has amazing court coverage with his over-sized stick. He usually plays doubles but also dominates in singles. The only way to beat him is s&v and chip and charge, and be really good at putting away tough overheads.

He has great recovery and anticipation in this clip and is always moving his feet. You can tell he knows where to be on the court. He's also getting some action on the ball so hitting the overhead may not be as easy as a person thinks. I can see why he has success.

fruitytennis1
12-28-2009, 02:59 PM
If those guys were 5.5... I'd be a pro! :D

Id be 10.0 and Fed would be like god...

psYcon
12-28-2009, 03:55 PM
In my town/region, both these guys are strong 3.0, or weak 3.5. Any of the guys in our 3.5 would smoke either one.

I can see them being rated a 4.0 in some towns where participation is low.

But to have them at a 4.5 or greater in any town, IMO, is just plain B.S.

Is your town in Mars? Don't know what kind of NTRP rating you follow but perhaps you should check their profile, they were 4.5 and moved up to 5.0.

sruckauf
12-28-2009, 04:48 PM
LOL don't get your feathers ruffled. I'm happy they're a 4.5 or a 5.0 or a 7.0 or whatever, via their win/loss record. I'm sure they enjoy telling people they're at that level.

I'm just providing some comparison, that these rating numbers aren't completely useless, but are subject to a LOT of factors due to where you live.

TennisPassion5
12-28-2009, 06:14 PM
About the original two players posted about, I'd love for someone to explain to me how anything above 3.5 is even close to their actual NTRP. A lot of people just throw numbers out there as if they're nothing, but a 4.0 player is a solid and pretty good player. 4.0 would be stretching it by a mile. Come on now!

JoelDali
12-28-2009, 06:36 PM
JD should post a video of himself :)

Oh yeah? Perhaps you should too champ ... :)

I'm in the process of setting up an Exo to be filmed in HD and broadcast for your viewing pleasure.

I'm just contemplating who my opponent will be.

I'm extending the EXO video offer to J0lly, or my favorite 4.5 battle partner that I have epic close matches with. TT deserves some video battles to dissect that are better than the Andrew Rosz joke videos or the strong idiot 5.5 guys.

This is all part of my vision to bringing NTRP tennis to the big screen in a "The Wrestler" kind of way. Minus Mickey Rourke Roid Boobies(tm).

SuperDuy
12-28-2009, 06:55 PM
Best. Thread. Ever.

You have the funniest avatar I have ever seen.

equinox
12-29-2009, 03:58 AM
someone with creative talent should do a switching viewpoint mashup of all the ntrp tennis videos.

keepurpowderdry
12-29-2009, 12:36 PM
From my experience playing in southern california , I saw alot of strong 4.0 older guys that look alot like these 2 guys. Thanks for putting up the video I love watching tennis thats not pro ..

AlpineCadet
12-29-2009, 01:04 PM
Oh yeah? Perhaps you should too champ ... :)

I'm in the process of setting up an Exo to be filmed in HD and broadcast for your viewing pleasure.

I'm just contemplating who my opponent will be.

I'm extending the EXO video offer to J0lly, or my favorite 4.5 battle partner that I have epic close matches with. TT deserves some video battles to dissect that are better than the Andrew Rosz joke videos or the strong idiot 5.5 guys.

This is all part of my vision to bringing NTRP tennis to the big screen in a "The Wrestler" kind of way. Minus Mickey Rourke Roid Boobies(tm).

I'm not even good enough to post in this thread, but since you asked, I got challenged a long time ago on TTW.. the match was lopsided so there wasn't much filming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGe0TyCdKh4

quicken
12-29-2009, 01:25 PM
BAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHA

5.5

BAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

yea right.

keepurpowderdry
12-29-2009, 01:43 PM
I got challenged a long time ago on TTW.. the match was lopsided so there wasn't much filming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGe0TyCdKh4

How in the hell did you keep a straight face in that match. Did you drive real far or something !

sruckauf
12-29-2009, 02:00 PM
These guys are sponsored by SlapChop.

Solid 5.5

http://www.shopgetorganized.com/images/products/P35801B.jpg

LMAO oh man, I finally just got this. Too funny. Took me a damn day and a half for it to soak in though. Good stuff. Carry on.

Although I do miss the crackhead avatar. :(

LafayetteHitter
12-30-2009, 09:23 AM
LMAO oh man, I finally just got this. Too funny. Took me a damn day and a half for it to soak in though. Good stuff. Carry on.

Although I do miss the crackhead avatar. :(

They might qualify for 5.5 combo. Look at the placement on the serves and the returners footwork, he doesn't even split step. Normally I am the last one to lowball someones claimed rating but this video tells all.

sruckauf
12-30-2009, 01:50 PM
They might qualify for 5.5 combo.

LOL

[10 chars]

equinox
12-30-2009, 05:10 PM
cindy would spank them results and all.