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exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 04:36 AM
Ok so Im a member at a moderatley exclusive private club. Im not there cause of mommy and daddy, instead of buying a motorbike, I plunked down the change myself and joined at 26. Ive been there 4 years. There are 4 teaching pros on staff and on retainer. This is a member owned club. After four years of being there almost daily, and really pushing my game, Ive realized that unless youre paying one of these people 45$ and hour (right now) they don't care if your breathing or not. I won't get into the details, but they are inconsiderate, and never ever have I seen them give up 2 minutes of their time to some players. You know..."hey Mrs B., I see youre hitting a basket of serves, lets have a look", Or "Hey I got ten min, you guys need a fourth?" Never. Not 5 min, not once. Not with anybody. They have no mission statement, no mandate.(I think their mission statement is "Give me 45$"). Rants and raves was all about Obama, so I figured Id post here. Any ideas???

********I just want to update my post here, I think I was fairly upset, I wrote a couple mean things, now Ive calmed a bit and I think i have a more constructive viewpoint. This thread was actually helpful. I dont think the coaches are stingy or inconsiderate...but I do think thats how they have been coming across. For me definitley, and Im pretty easygoing. I think Im going to meet with them, tell them how I feel, and make a a simple suggestion. I don't think they realize what a big difference 5 minutes here and there will make. Seems reasonable.

TommyGNR
10-09-2009, 05:18 AM
Thats how they make there living. If you give away the milk for free then nobody feels like they have to buy it.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 05:24 AM
yeah, but theyre on retainer.....It doesn't have be all tips....a little more interaction. Spread a little encouragement..some good karma here and there. Nobody gets a drop of milk....its weird. I already get one private a week. Its bad customer service.

NickH87
10-09-2009, 05:43 AM
Yeah I completely understand that. This situation is a little different but it works the same.

On public courts there are two instructors than teach younger kids how to play for about 2 hours on mondays and wednesdays. After they come by the two courts that they dont use and offer us advice, hit with us, throw in their 2 cents for constructive criticism and its wonderful. They dont expect that we want to buy lessons from them, but they are genuine people that love tennis and helping others out and no expense.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 05:49 AM
Yeah! Exactly....Im a 4.0 and when Im at public courts, Ill show ppl how to play mini tennis etc. I love tennis. I want people to hit more balls and have a good time. Im at my club 5-7 days a week and the head "coach" has never given me 5 min of his time. In four years! He says hello, hows it going, hes "friendly"...I already take lessons....5 min!!!! Now every club (especially this one) had a pile of bs 5 miles wide and deep, the more i look, the more i see, so any ideas on how to effect some change??

Steady Eddy
10-09-2009, 07:23 AM
Ok so Im a member at a moderatley exclusive private club. Im not there cause of mommy and daddy, instead of buying a motorbike, I plunked down the change myself and joined at 26. Ive been there 4 years. There are 4 teaching pros on staff and on retainer. This is a member owned club. After four years of being there almost daily, and really pushing my game, Ive realized that unless youre paying one of these people 45$ and hour (right now) they don't care if your breathing or not. I won't get into the details, but they are inconsiderate, and never ever have I seen them give up 2 minutes of their time to some players. You know..."hey Mrs B., I see youre hitting a basket of serves, lets have a look", Or "Hey I got ten min, you guys need a fourth?" Never. Not 5 min, not once. Not with anybody. They have no mission statement, no mandate.(I think their mission statement is "Give me 45$"). Rants and raves was all about Obama, so I figured Id post here. Any ideas???That's not a good club and those pros don't know how to do their job. At the same time, I'd expect that you're a good member, that means you buy tennis balls and other equipment there instead of at Target or Walmart. Now if you're doing your end, they should do their end and sometimes comment on your game. They don't have to watch your whole set, but if they notice something, outside of a lesson, it's nice to have them tell you. This is the benefit of having a pro/player relationship.

The people who think, "Why should they devote one second to you when they're off the clock?" are wrong. Is that the kind of employee they are? (Nevermind, I think I've answered my own question.)

volusiano
10-09-2009, 07:34 AM
How does it work for a club pro to be "on retainer" at the club? I understand the term "on retainer" in general (like for a lawyer), but I don't know what it means for a club teaching pro. Do they get to keep the whole $45/hr fee or do they share some of that with the club? Does the club pay them a salary and split the $45/hr fee with them?

Maybe there's some club rule that strictly prohibits them from giving tennis tips outside of lessons? After all, you did say they're friendly and say hello to you and everything else but give you technical tips...

sureshs
10-09-2009, 07:42 AM
The pros are employees or contractors of the club, not the owners. In some cases, they might indirectly benefit from your membership fees, but usually they earn based on their lessons after shelling out a percentage to the club and their insurance and USPTA membership etc. I see no reason why they should spend time with someone who is not paying them.

At my club, the pros have volunteered only a couple of times. The head pro demonstrated a kick serve to me when he was in the next court, and another pro plays doubles with us, but mostly for his own tournament practice (he is a regular senior event player).

tennisdad65
10-09-2009, 07:42 AM
If you are a member, you are already paying $200-400 per month. They better be nice to all members, even if you do not take lessons.

Venetian
10-09-2009, 07:44 AM
200-$400 a month? That's pretty steep. I pay $100 a year.

sureshs
10-09-2009, 07:47 AM
That's not a good club and those pros don't know how to do their job. At the same time, I'd expect that you're a good member, that means you buy tennis balls and other equipment there instead of at Target or Walmart.

Not at all. Most pro shops inside clubs, even if they do exist, are poorly stocked and are usually just a place to drop off frames for stringing. They keep some items like balls and socks for emergencies, but they fully expect that you will shop somewhere else where there is more choice. Heck, even standalone pro shops cannot survive these days without Internet presence. My local pro shop guy regularly monitors TW prices and availability. Club pro shops are usually pathetic. If they want to compete, they have a long way to go. They are there for the same reason gift shops exist at better hotels - for emergency supplies and to keep their 4 star or 5 star rating. The hotel staff doesn't expect you to do your shopping there.

Steady Eddy
10-09-2009, 08:05 AM
Not at all. Most pro shops inside clubs, even if they do exist, are poorly stocked and are usually just a place to drop off frames for stringing. They keep some items like balls and socks for emergencies, but they fully expect that you will shop somewhere else where there is more choice. Heck, even standalone pro shops cannot survive these days without Internet presence. My local pro shop guy regularly monitors TW prices and availability. Club pro shops are usually pathetic. If they want to compete, they have a long way to go. They are there for the same reason gift shops exist at better hotels - for emergency supplies and to keep their 4 star or 5 star rating. The hotel staff doesn't expect you to do your shopping there.
Back in the day, my club wasn't like that. My brother worked in the shop too, so got it double if I bought tennis stuff at Target. I thought it was fair to buy tennis balls from the shop, because they didn't cost that much more there. But I bought shoes from the shop, and they fell apart in a week. The pro told me it was 'normal wear', so my next pair I bought somewhere else. When the pro saw me in shoes not purchased at his shop, he really grilled me. But I thought, "I can't afford to buy new shoes every week." But back in the 80's I thought you were to support the shop if you could. Maybe times have changed, because where I play now, no one buys their stuff.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 08:07 AM
Lessons are about 47$ and they give 3 or 4$ to the club. Plus their retainers. I don't know what those are. No, they don't give a minute. not one minute. 300$ a month bye the way. Everybody else at the club is nice and helpful. The gym trainers give advice all the time. I don't pay them...and they don't get retainers....

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 08:10 AM
Balls I buy from them....everything else TW!

sureshs
10-09-2009, 08:15 AM
Back in the day, my club wasn't like that. My brother worked in the shop too, so got it double if I bought tennis stuff at Target. I thought it was fair to buy tennis balls from the shop, because they didn't cost that much more there. But I bought shoes from the shop, and they fell apart in a week. The pro told me it was 'normal wear', so my next pair I bought somewhere else. When the pro saw me in shoes not purchased at his shop, he really grilled me. But I thought, "I can't afford to buy new shoes every week." But back in the 80's I thought you were to support the shop if you could. Maybe times have changed, because where I play now, no one buys their stuff.

No one buys their stuff at club shops anymore. Take racquets. Even an outside pro shop has nowhere near the selection that TW does. I still buy frames from them because I can measure the specs myself. But shoes I buy from TW. I know my size and I know which models will fit me without trouble, so the local pro shop is out of the picture. The typical club/resort pro shop has 5 racquets hanging from the wall which no one touches. At the resort I sometimes play, the pro shop is a place for people to watch TV before a match. And sometimes the occasional lady who forgot her socks. Even the big pro shop at La Costa at the time the Acura was going on was not impressive at all.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 08:18 AM
This has nothing to do with the pro shop, we don't even have one right now. It got remodelled out and it will be a while till it gets modelled back in.

NickH87
10-09-2009, 08:21 AM
Is it even worth opening up a local tennis shop now a days. I think it would be cool to own one but it probably wont be worth it.

Rorsach
10-09-2009, 08:22 AM
300$ a month bye the way.

Holy crap. What are the courts made of, solid gold?

I'm paying 150 euros a year.

sureshs
10-09-2009, 08:23 AM
I read your first post again and realize you are a woman. May I suggest that you should not compare tennis pros to gym trainers? The relationship between women and gym trainers seems to be, how should I put it, interesting. I can fully visualize a hunky guy in tights and a sleevless shirt always willing to hold you and show you an exercise even if you don't pay him ....

NickH87
10-09-2009, 08:23 AM
Local places are like $75-80/month around here

Steady Eddy
10-09-2009, 08:29 AM
No one buys their stuff at club shops anymore. Take racquets. Even an outside pro shop has nowhere near the selection that TW does. I still buy frames from them because I can measure the specs myself. But shoes I buy from TW. I know my size and I know which models will fit me without trouble, so the local pro shop is out of the picture. The typical club/resort pro shop has 5 racquets hanging from the wall which no one touches. At the resort I sometimes play, the pro shop is a place for people to watch TV before a match. And sometimes the occasional lady who forgot her socks. Even the big pro shop at La Costa at the time the Acura was going on was not impressive at all.Then I don't get the OP's club? If you're loyal, and take all your lessons from the same pro, s/he ought to take an interest in your game and not be like, "If it's not a lesson, I don't know you." If that's how they think a club pro should be, they don't get their job. The old pro I mentioned, on the down side, he did hustle his crummy shop too much, but on the up side, he did observe how members played, and often if two people were waiting in his shop, he'd suggest that they could hit together, (he knew if they were at about the same level). He also informed people about manners, when he saw people cutting through courts he'd tell them about using the gates instead. People accept that criticism better from a pro than from another player.

Some of the new pros seem to want to do the minimum. The older pros also sometimes filled in as a fourth for doubles if they weren't busy with a lesson. They were an asset to the club, not just there to give lessons only. If your club has pros that won't lift a finger unless they're being paid for a lesson, see if your club can find some pros who will do more. There's alot of competition for jobs in this economy. Why put up with slackers?

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 08:30 AM
Really..? really? did I just read that? Wow aren't you perceptive! No, Im a man...spare your expert analysis for other posts. Read the original post and try to impart some advice to the thread please..not you eddie, the one before that

sureshs
10-09-2009, 08:31 AM
Is it just my limited sample size or are tennis pros today mostly on the older side? I don't see young pros around.

sureshs
10-09-2009, 08:33 AM
Really..? really? did I just read that? Wow aren't you perceptive! No, Im a man...spare your expert analysis for other posts. Read the original post and try to impart some advice to the thread please..not you eddie, the one before that

Even if you are a man, my gym trainer comments still apply :-)

Why do people call you Mrs B?

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 08:37 AM
hahaha ok ok....yeah yeah, not that was just an example of what they might say to a memeber if they have a $ht. Mrs B gets ignored just as much as me

sureshs
10-09-2009, 08:40 AM
hahaha ok ok....yeah yeah, not that was just an example of what they might say to a memeber if they have a $ht. Mrs B gets ignored just as much as me

Yeah I was joking.

I used to play at a private facility for $150 a month and the pros did not give any extra time as far as I could see. They do seem to care more about juniors though.

JRstriker12
10-09-2009, 08:43 AM
Ok so Im a member at a moderatley exclusive private club. Im not there cause of mommy and daddy, instead of buying a motorbike, I plunked down the change myself and joined at 26. Ive been there 4 years. There are 4 teaching pros on staff and on retainer. This is a member owned club. After four years of being there almost daily, and really pushing my game, Ive realized that unless youre paying one of these people 45$ and hour (right now) they don't care if your breathing or not. I won't get into the details, but they are inconsiderate, and never ever have I seen them give up 2 minutes of their time to some players. You know..."hey Mrs B., I see youre hitting a basket of serves, lets have a look", Or "Hey I got ten min, you guys need a fourth?" Never. Not 5 min, not once. Not with anybody. They have no mission statement, no mandate.(I think their mission statement is "Give me 45$"). Rants and raves was all about Obama, so I figured Id post here. Any ideas???

Have you talked to the club owners about this?

Sounds like they could be a little more friendly, but on the flip side, I don't think you should expect free tips/lessons. They are there to be paid for thier tennis expertise so I can see why they many not want to give it away for free.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 08:49 AM
interesting....it's a member owned club. I do agree that they don't have to give free lessons....but they don't give 2 minutes here and there. Nothing at all. Its weird.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 08:52 AM
you get more bees with honey

SuperDuy
10-09-2009, 09:28 AM
Explain it more, I don't get it..

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 09:31 AM
If coach A walks up to Mrs B when shes hitting on the ball machine, and tells her to hit out in front and low to high and it works and she likes him, she will be more likley to speak well of the coach, take lessons from him, or recommend him

ti286
10-09-2009, 09:38 AM
They are poor businessmen.

A little free advice here and there is like advertising.

They'd get even more $45/hr. lessons if they were more sharing.

JRstriker12
10-09-2009, 09:53 AM
interesting....it's a member owned club. I do agree that they don't have to give free lessons....but they don't give 2 minutes here and there. Nothing at all. Its weird.

If it's a member owned club, then I assume there's some sort of governing board/panel. Bring it up at a board meeting or send a letter to the board about how unfriendly the pros are.

Just wondering - do most of these pros make thier money working with juniors or with adult club members? I would think if they were hurting for business they would be a little more friendly..... but if thier focus is on producing high-ranked juniors and a lot of people at the club pay for those services, I could see a situation where they tend to ignore other club members (not saying it's right though....).

blakesq
10-09-2009, 10:16 AM
Exhaleexplode,

Do you work for free?

Ok so Im a member at a moderatley exclusive private club. Im not there cause of mommy and daddy, instead of buying a motorbike, I plunked down the change myself and joined at 26. Ive been there 4 years. There are 4 teaching pros on staff and on retainer. This is a member owned club. After four years of being there almost daily, and really pushing my game, Ive realized that unless youre paying one of these people 45$ and hour (right now) they don't care if your breathing or not. I won't get into the details, but they are inconsiderate, and never ever have I seen them give up 2 minutes of their time to some players. You know..."hey Mrs B., I see youre hitting a basket of serves, lets have a look", Or "Hey I got ten min, you guys need a fourth?" Never. Not 5 min, not once. Not with anybody. They have no mission statement, no mandate.(I think their mission statement is "Give me 45$"). Rants and raves was all about Obama, so I figured Id post here. Any ideas???

user92626
10-09-2009, 10:23 AM
Go to public courts. You get tons of unsolicited free tips and advices. Frankly alot of them work or can be contested if the givers do not demonstrate it effectively.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 10:55 AM
Do I work for free?
sure budy, anything you wanna know about fluid mechanics, I'd be happy to take a minute or two to explain to you. Do you know why topspin forces the ball down? Everybody who plays tennis should know that.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 10:58 AM
when you live it, breathe it and love it, it aint work

marsh
10-09-2009, 11:08 AM
I happen to live in a metro area where the public facilities are great (Memphis). I frequent, weekly, 2 of the 4 or 5 public facilities in town. Of the 2 facilities I go to, the pros at one are always volunteering to assist me if they see a problem with my swing, form etc. They also make sure to drop a positive comment if I'm playing great. Frequently, when a late night clinic is over the will hang around and play if we need a 4th. As a result I will go out of my way to go to that one facility and I would pay a serious premium to take a lesson from one of them, if I ever get around to starting that up again.

marsh
10-09-2009, 11:13 AM
I forgot to add that I also recently stopped by a local tennis only club to inquiring on joining. After being ushered through the dining, pool, banquet and fitness areas, I asked if I could purchase a tennis only membership. Once I was told no, I asked the very attractive female sales rep what her club offered to some one that the public tennis centers didn't and would make the $350 a month fee worthwhile. She had no reply. As I left she yelled "did you see our brand new restaraunt?"

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 11:14 AM
They got me here...only 2 indoor facilities in town...and you cant get a court at the other

sureshs
10-09-2009, 11:17 AM
I forgot to add that I also recently stopped by a local tennis only club to inquiring on joining. After being ushered through the dining, pool, banquet and fitness areas, I asked if I could purchase a tennis only membership. Once I was told no, I asked the very attractive female sales rep what her club offered to some one that the public tennis centers didn't and would make the $350 a month fee worthwhile. She had no reply. As I left she yelled "did you see our brand new restaraunt?"

For 350 a month, you should expect: heated pool, restaurant and bar, more than one type of court surface, jacuzzi and sauna, matchmaking services, regularly scheduled socials, towels and drinking water near every court.

volusiano
10-09-2009, 11:53 AM
Just curious question to the OP, have you taken any lesson from any of these pros before in the 4 years since you joined? I can see you being irritated if you have had a lesson or two from them before, and they ignore you (tip wise) afterward when you stop taking lessons from them. But if you've never taken a lesson from them in the whole 4 years, maybe there's been no opportunity to "break the ice" to go beyond a friendly "hello, how are you".

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 11:57 AM
Ive had group or private from all of them at some point. Like I said Ive never seen them give anyone a minute

Steady Eddy
10-09-2009, 12:08 PM
Ive had group or private from all of them at some point. Like I said Ive never seen them give anyone a minuteThen it's a no-brainer. Find a new club. Sounds like your club is on the high end of costs, but low end for service. Not a good combination.

exhaleexplode
10-09-2009, 12:15 PM
I agree, but its the only indoor club where you can easily get a court...unfortunatley

sureshs
10-09-2009, 12:15 PM
Tennis pros are not a happy lot. I know from my contacts on my club's board of directors that there is always a tussle between the owners and the pros, and the members and the pros. The owners want a bigger percentage of the pro's fees and want him/her to rope in more students, or quit. Many members resent the pros occupying courts during primetime. This has resulted in much unpleasantness at my club. Unlike the OP, many members just want court time when they want it, and don't want any lessons taking place, with balls shooting all over the place to adjacent courts. One member told me recently that a club should have only one head pro and should fire everyone else because lessons are a waste of time. Behind the smily faces of the pros is a lot of concern about their jobs, which may get reflected in their behavior.

Tennisman912
10-09-2009, 02:23 PM
Exhaleexplode,

You are misunderstanding how tennis pros make money. They make 95%+ of their money from lessons. They might get a little for administrative tasks like running leagues, group lessons or calling to setup special events/socials but they get no real retainer just to sit there. If they aren’t teaching, they aren’t making money. Have you considered the fact that maybe you look down on them because you think they are there to serve you because you belong to an exclusive club without you paying for it? I am not saying this is the case but something to think about.

Having said all that, I have never belonged to club where a pro you have some relationship with who has a spare moment before a lesson or clinic who wouldn’t go hit a few with me or someone else for few minutes so you can show them something you are working on or just to hit a few. If that is really the case here, then I would join another club if I were unhappy with the way things are run. But they’re job is to get you into clinics, set up social events and especially, get you taking lessons. They are not going to give tons of free lessons and take money out of their pocket.

If you don’t have a relationship with them (know them well or taking lessons or clinics or being active in the club) then you can’t expect them to A. know what you want all the time unless you ask or go hit with someone they don’t know unless you ask. You wouldn’t go into a doctor’s office in between appointments and expect them to see you in their spare moments, especially if they don’t know you would you? If you have a relationship with them and they have a moment and there is an open court, very few pros would say no to 5 minutes of hitting or pointers if you just ask them.

Good tennis

TM

volusiano
10-09-2009, 03:18 PM
^^^ I think the OP has a relationship with them. That's why I asked him if he took lessons from the pros before and he said yes, he took both private and group lessons from them ALL at some point. Besides, the OP said that he spends almost every day at the club's courts, so the pros know him and greet him "Hello".

I think the OP has a legitimate gripe. It would be nice if the pros would at least extend their courtesy beyond normal greetings and chat up with him a minute or two now and then about his tennis progress. If anything, it's a way to help bring in more business and sell more lessons.

Cindysphinx
10-09-2009, 05:32 PM
I don't understand what the problem is.

I have never been a "member" of a club, but there is one club in town where I take my lessons and where my son took lessons. My own pro works there in the winter and works for himself in the summers (on public courts).

I simply wouldn't dream of asking my pro for any free time. Nor would I find it acceptable if he up and decided that he would shorten up one of our lessons by a few minutes. Sure, sometimes we run over a little bit, and sometimes after a lesson we will talk in the parking lot for a while if he doesn't have anyplace to go.

But expecting him to come up and give me a few tips when I am not taking a lesson? Expecting him to come and be our fourth? Blech.

If he volunteered to do such things, I would consider it above and beyond the call of duty, and I feel no entitlement to his time beyond the block of time for which I pay. And this is a situation where I have paid this man and this club $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Why would someone who isn't a regular customer of the pros expect freebies?

Cody
10-09-2009, 05:42 PM
The biggest favor my coach who is very generous does for me is let me practice with his various groups before my lesson, my lesson starts at 5 but i get to the court at 3.30 straight after school and join in on his group lesson untill my lesson which finishes at 6:30 at no extra cost.
He also provided me with 40 of his worn out balls to practice my serve any day of the week.
Any time he is there i get free court hire. yay

I have a very generous coach i think.:)

lilxjohnyy
10-09-2009, 05:57 PM
my coach is very generous. Although he belongs to a very expensive club, he is willing to play tournaments with me on saturdays even after a day of teaching. I played with him twice and we plan on playing one more time.

DNShade
10-09-2009, 07:27 PM
200-$400 a month? That's pretty steep. I pay $100 a year.

I gotta move where you guys are...Example - two clubs here - $17,500.00 and $14,000.00 joining fees - $500 and $350 monthly...And no - there aren't any golf courses attached to those - just tennis clubs.

volusiano
10-09-2009, 09:35 PM
I don't understand what the problem is.

I simply wouldn't dream of asking my pro for any free time.

If the OP is already paying $300/month plus the big bucks to join the club in the first place, I'm sure he's not that cheap to expect free tips/free time from the pros. After all, he did say he took lessons from all of the pros at the club at one point or another.

I guess the problem is probably one of acknowledgment of the presence of the regulars whom the pros see daily at the club, and maybe being more personable/social beyond the curt, obligatory daily greetings. It probably doesn't need to be free tips or free play. Maybe just a friendly chat now and then and knowing people on the first name basis and things like that may suffice. Some people may not care for that stuff, but others may expect more of it, especially in a high-end club environment.

Steady Eddy
10-09-2009, 09:54 PM
I don't understand what the problem is.

I have never been a "member" of a club, but there is one club in town where I take my lessons and where my son took lessons.

I simply wouldn't dream of asking my pro for any free time.
Well, no, you're not a member there, so you don't play your matches there. But if you DID play your matches at the same place where you take your lessons, (and your dues are partially supporting the pro), you might think that he would watch a couple minutes of one of your matches and make a comment. Just something like, "You need to get up to the net more, we'll work on that at your next lesson." Something like that.


But expecting him to come up and give me a few tips when I am not taking a lesson? Expecting him to come and be our fourth? Blech.

Again, this is different if you're a member of a club who's dues support the pro. He's getting a salary even if he doesn't give a single lesson, shouldn't he do something for that money? I don't think it's too much to expect him to know the regulars and know something about how they play. He shouldn't be some stuck up, loner, who only comes to life when someone offers him extra money, beyond his salary.

Again, you're using your experience as someone hiring a pro and going to his club as a non-member. You don't pay dues, and are an outsider at that club. This makes it all so different.
If he volunteered to do such things, I would consider it above and beyond the call of duty, and I feel no entitlement to his time beyond the block of time for which I pay. And this is a situation where I have paid this man and this club $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Why would someone who isn't a regular customer of the pros expect freebies?
I thought the OP was a regular customer? I'm basing this on being, not only a regular customer, but an exclusive, loyal, and frequent customer. If I'm doing that, I'd rather not have a pro who's always looking at his watch to make sure the lesson doesn't run 1 minute over. That's all.

Cindysphinx
10-10-2009, 05:47 AM
OK, I get that.

If the OP is still taking lessons, then of course the staff should be nice. The receptionist should be nice, the pros should be nice. When I go to this club, the owner will sometimes chat with me for a minute or two, just asking how my season is going, etc. Just common courtesy. I in turn ask him how business is going and ask after his family. Just common courtesy.

Now, if the OP is taking lessons from a particular pro and that pro doesn't seem to take any interest in his development, that is a problem. When I was shopping around for a pro, that was something I watched for, and if I felt the pro was phoning it in he was off the list.

Still, demonstrating some interest -- inquiring about how your matches are going -- is one thing. Getting free coaching or getting the pro to play tennis with you is something else again.

For instance, I will sometimes get there early and hit some serves. I know he can see me, but he won't say anything to me about my serves then or at all. He will just start my lesson on time, we will decide what to work on, and that's it. Other times he will tell me he saw me playing and observed X, Y and Z. Again, this occurs during a lesson I am paying for, and we then work on the problems.

I guess what confuses me is if the OP is taking lessons, then he has ample time to ask about and work on whatever he wants. If he isn't taking lessons, then he seems to want freebies. Should one's club dues entitle them to expect freebies outside of lessons and clinics? I don't see why. The club dues, I would think, entitle one to use the club.

Obviously, the nicer and more engaged a pro seems to be, the more students he will get. If these pros aren't nice, I just wouldn't take lessons with them.

brad1730
10-10-2009, 06:04 AM
Some people are very sensitive to suggestions. You see it here. Threads ask "please help me..." and then the OP gets very defensive with the recommendations. I would think that a pro who wants to stick around for a long time has to be very sensitive as to handing out suggestions when he's not directly asked.

GuyClinch
10-10-2009, 06:35 AM
IMHO you probably got to take a few lessons with the pro before he feels comfortable giving you freebie tips. I don't really see the problem with the club.

Pete

moroni
10-10-2009, 07:25 AM
wow you really pay alot 300 a month !!!!! i pay 400$ a year and there is a free swimming pool and a free basketball court but they do not have a tennis shop in the club .. it is not a fancy club though.

Toad
10-10-2009, 08:04 AM
I have not had the same experience as the OP...the opposite in fact. This is the first time I have joined an indoor club...it was $300 for the season (Sept. - May) membership fee and about $500 for a play all you want in the morning deal for the entire season.

I have only been a member for a month, but the manager (also a club pro) went out of his way to help me find matches the first few weeks I went there. He has also started inviting a group of 4.5+'s to play once a week with each other and a few of the club pros (since there are only about 8 of us there so it can be hard for us to get competitive matches). The manager has also invited a few of us to sub in some matches at no additional cost to us.

I also see the manager and a few other club pros jumping onto courts that have three people so they can get a doubles match going. They do occasionally offer a bit of advise when they do this as well. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the pros at the club I go to certainly want the members to have a good experience...even if, like me, they are not taking and have never taken any lessons from them.

NickH87
10-10-2009, 08:11 AM
wow you really pay alot 300 a month !!!!! i pay 400$ a year and there is a free swimming pool and a free basketball court but they do not have a tennis shop in the club .. it is not a fancy club though.

I would kill for those rates....unfortunately for the middle class living in one of the richest counties in america, clubs are expensive and the one time I went in to check it out it was filled with older men and women. No young adults...I guess they are all that can afford it.

Steady Eddy
10-10-2009, 08:27 AM
Some people are very sensitive to suggestions. You see it here. Threads ask "please help me..." and then the OP gets very defensive with the recommendations. I would think that a pro who wants to stick around for a long time has to be very sensitive as to handing out suggestions when he's not directly asked.That's sorta true, sorta not true. The pro, by virtue of being the pro, has a different status from the other members. Some people cut through other people's courts on their way to their court. It's both the right and the duty of the pro to tell them not to do that. If a ordinary member tells them that, they tend to say "Mind your own business.", but the pro has a right to decide how people behave at his club.

This different status carries over to giving tips also. If the pro gives you a tip after watching you play, that's a good thing. It's like getting something for free. It's very different if another player does this though. Are they qualified to give advice? If they're a champion player it's one thing, but most often, the top players don't like to give advice. Usually, the worse a player is, the more advice they handout. No one likes it when a crummy player starts telling you how to play.

moroni
10-10-2009, 09:01 AM
I would kill for those rates....unfortunately for the middle class living in one of the richest counties in america, clubs are expensive and the one time I went in to check it out it was filled with older men and women. No young adults...I guess they are all that can afford it.

well yea its pretty cheap here in BH ..you could bring upto four guests at a time an each has to pay 5 $ to come and play all he wants for a day(in the same court you are playing at)...friends not joined in the club tag along all the time and there are plenty of young males in the club ..i hit with guys there all the time.

well back to the original thread >>>> why do you expect pros to give advice for free? is not that their job? would you go to your job for free?

Power Player
10-10-2009, 09:23 AM
OP, here is my solution. Play with better players. Meet some on this board in your area that will hit with you, and hit with the best guys at your club. You will get a lot of free advice and if you are good, you will know which ones to focus on to improve your game.

I think the best lesson is experience if you are above a 3.5-4.0 level.

Steady Eddy
10-10-2009, 09:24 AM
well back to the original thread >>>> why do you expect pros to give advice for free? is not that their job? would you go to your job for free?
This is what's known as "begging the question". In other words, you are taking for granted what's in dispute. Some think it is the pros job. If you declare it not to be, of course, then your view follows from that. But how do we know it's not the pros job to ever talk with members outside of a lesson?

I see a tennis club as being like any other business. If I am a 'regular' at a restaurant, bar, or hotel, it's not unreasonable to think that the staff will notice this and that they might be friendly also.

I've been on the other side of this too. As a teacher, I'd help students outside of class, and I felt it didn't hurt to remember names or to be friendly. And where I work now some of my co-workers won't lift a finger even one minute before work, or will ever stay one minute after, (and they sure know when their breaks are). You're like them, and I can see you won't be persuaded to see it any other way. But when layoffs come, don't be surprised if you're always first on THAT list.

moroni
10-10-2009, 09:30 AM
This is what's known as "begging the question". In other words, you are taking for granted what's in dispute. Some think it is the pros job. If you declare it not to be, of course, then your view follows from that. But how do we know it's not the pros job to ever talk with members outside of a lesson?

I see a tennis club as being like any other business. If I am a 'regular' at a restaurant, bar, or hotel, it's not unreasonable to think that the staff will notice this and that they might be friendly also.

I've been on the other side of this too. As a teacher, I'd help students outside of class, and I felt it didn't hurt to remember names or to be friendly. And where I work now some of my co-workers won't lift a finger even one minute before work, or will ever stay one minute after, (and they sure know when their breaks are). You're like them, and I can see you won't be persuaded to see it any other way. But when layoffs come, don't be surprised if you're always first on THAT list.

''begging the question" huh? i studied critical thinking and i happen to have aced it. this is not begging the question ..my reasoning is not circular ..well i know that it doesnt hurt they should help out sometimes but they do not have to its totally up to them so you cant be mad if they dont but you should be grateful if they do .. and since you like critical thinking ((do not say that im self contradictory)) cuz im not

Steady Eddy
10-10-2009, 09:58 AM
''begging the question" huh? i studied critical thinking and i happen to have aced it. this is not begging the question ..my reasoning is not circular ..well i know that it doesnt hurt they should help out sometimes but they do not have to its totally up to them so you cant be mad if they dont but you should be grateful if they do .. and since you like critical thinking ((do not say that im self contradictory)) cuz im not
..well i know that it doesnt hurt they should help out sometimesWe agree on that.
but they do not have to its totally up to them so you cant be mad if they dontMaybe "mad" isn't the right word. I wouldn't be "mad" but I would be keeping my eyes open for another club to join. Even if there isn't any competition for them now, there might be later. If they want to stay in business they should try to build some goodwill with their customers.

I guess our disagreement is this, it's not formally part of their job, if they choose to do the minimum they can skip it. Ok, I just don't think much of employees who go around saying, "It's not my job." I also think it catches up with them, (whether it's in tennis or not), they get passed over for promotions and might not even keep their job. Their club is also more likely to go out of business because usually people have other choices.

So to the OP, don't get mad, join another club. You deserve better than this for the $300 a month you pay.

Cindysphinx
10-10-2009, 02:46 PM
You know, Steady Eddy, I don't think it would necessarily be well-received for a pro to come up to a player they don't know especially well who is practicing serves and offer unsolicited advice (like "You're still dropping your tossing arm to soon").

As I thought about this more, I reflected on what the various pros say to me when I go into the club. When I see my own pro, we just say hi. At most, he will ask me how a particular important match went, although it is equally common for him to ask me what I thought of Nadal's latest match.

The head pro (from whom I don't take lessons) has come up to me while I was practicing, or afterward as I was leaving. He doesn't tell me what I am doing wrong. He will compliment me on how well I am doing with with this or that stroke, and he will ask how my season is going. He also pumps me for leads on people who might want to do clinics or take lessons, and I freely offer up this information.

I just question how welcome it would be for a pro to interrupt someone's practice with a few tips. Some people (like me) would view such a thing as Unwelcome Marketing and may not be in the mood for what might feel like a sales pitch.

Steady Eddy
10-10-2009, 03:51 PM
You know, Steady Eddy, I don't think it would necessarily be well-received for a pro to come up to a player they don't know especially well who is practicing serves and offer unsolicited advice (like "You're still dropping your tossing arm to soon").
Of course, that's about mechanics, a pro might more likely point out something about tactics to a beginner, like, "In doubles you need to play the game from the net more, not from behind the baseline."

I just question how welcome it would be for a pro to interrupt someone's practice with a few tips. Some people (like me) would view such a thing as Unwelcome Marketing and may not be in the mood for what might feel like a sales pitch.
Interrupt someone's practice? Well yeah.

I don't mean to confuse anyone. Here's what I'm thinking of. We have a local public facility that gets managed privately. Here's what happened with one of the private management teams: they weren't friendly, they didn't know who their regulars were, they did the bare minimum. The facility started out busy, but interest trailed off visibly each month until the facilty closed. Alot of that was their fault. The OPs club reminds me of the same thing. Later, a successful group did things differently and there's always people there now. That's the moral of the story.

exhaleexplode
10-10-2009, 06:26 PM
"hey Bill, I see youre workin on your serve there"
yeah, Im trying to get it down the middle/a kicker/over the damn net
"well lets have a look if you dont mind"
"ok, well give this a try"
cool thanks.

see if bill thought his serve was fine he wouldnt be working on it.

the coach could spend 3-5 mins in a situation like that.
Maybe stop bye again in a couple of months when he sees bill again

bill will be a happy customer and will think highly of the coach, recommend him, and trust that hes not lazy and greedy. he will feel more welcome bye his club