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View Full Version : 2 questions about Nadal's injury, or lack of it


SerbWhoLovesDelPo
10-12-2009, 02:44 AM
For those people who say Nadal never had an injury during or before RG:

1) If he wasn't injured, then doesn't that make him one of the biggest cheats/fakers ever, since it basically means he skipped out of the greatest tennis tournament in the world (and Queens and Davis Cup) for no reason?

2) I've seen a lot of people criticize Nadal's busy schedule (and not just posters with Rafa-avatars). For proof, see here

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=290886

But, again, if there was no injury/exhaustion, then there was absolutely nothing wrong with his schedule, right? He can play Barcelona and Rotterdam next year, too.

------------------------------

3) If you believe that he had an injury, but not during Madrid and RG, then when did he pick it up? Soderling match? Training?

namelessone
10-12-2009, 03:19 AM
I think you just asked 3 question by the look of it:):)

But seriously:

1)As you know there are 2 theories floating around: Nadal chickened out of Queens/Wimbledon because he was low on confidence or the drakulie theory which says that Nadal got caught doping and got secretly suspended by the ATP.

IMO both are laughable. So Nadal,not having match practice and being low on confidence,is willing to go get himself hammered on the fast courts(his worst surface) of Montreal/Cincy/USO/Beijing but he chickens out when it comes to defending his queens and Wimbledon titles(being held on grass,a surface he likes). Come on. The doping/suspension theory I have explained so many times that I am sick of it. Look it up in the numerous threads related to it.

2) Nadal has no idea how to schedule. This is true. But Nadal's schedule isn't set in stone. He can change at the last minute,even while facing the prospect of a fine by the tournament organisers. Bangkok was on his schedule for example,but he dropped it due to injury. If Nadal feels healthy enough,he enters. His problem is knowing when to stop,the best example being the situation on clay courts this spring. He had been playing with pain in his knees since MC but kept on playing for another 2 tournaments. So the guy stringed 3 consecutive clay tournaments(MC,Barca,Rome) without a break in between. That's pretty stupid considering that he was playing with pain. And what does he do? He rests for a week and plays another tournament,Madrid, instead of resting up and preparing for RG.

3)I definitely believe he had an injury and if I had to guess I think his situation worsened in Madrid,though I'm not sure when. And we need to redefine the "injury" term. Nadal has tendinitis,a condition you can live with,but the trick is to not play too much,unless you want the pain to get bigger. The body needs time to rest. Nadal didn't do that for his knees and paid the price. Nadal's "injury" happend from the cumulative effect of playing too much,it's not like he slipped on something and broke his leg. Nadal himself says that he almost always plays with some pain but at the wimbledon withdrawal was the first time I heard him say that the pain is so great that it takes his mind off his game. The fact that he visited his doctor after Madrid says something.

aphex
10-12-2009, 03:28 AM
we simply cannot keep up with the spaniard's pathetic excuses.

first it's "i don't play unless i'm 100%, no?"

then, weeks after he was beaten like a drum by le sod it's "i was injured at RG, no?"

someone please explain how you can be 100% and injured at the same time.

namelessone
10-12-2009, 03:42 AM
we simply cannot keep up with the spaniard's pathetic excuses.

first it's "i don't play unless i'm 100%, no?"

then, weeks after he was beaten like a drum by le sod it's "i was injured at RG, no?"

someone please explain how you can be 100% and injured at the same time.

Ever heard of learning from your mistakes? Nadal entered RG not at his best physically and he,like us,saw what happened and I don't mean his elimination from the competition but the fact that his tendinitis flared up and caused him to miss queens and wimbledon. I don't think the visit to his doctor after Madrid was for nothing,clearly something was bothering him. In wimbledon he did the first smart thing in a long time and actually listened to his body instead of forcing it like he has done in the past.

Every tournament Nadal has entered after Wimbledon he was 100% physically(that is,he felt good enough to enter),his only problem was match time and timing on his strokes. The only problem he had after WB was a small abdomen pain which he felt was minor,seeing as he played montreal/cincy/USO with it. His bad luck was that the pain developed into a muscle tear and once again he was sidelined.

aphex
10-12-2009, 04:03 AM
Ever heard of learning from your mistakes? Nadal entered RG not at his best physically and he,like us,saw what happened and I don't mean his elimination from the competition but the fact that his tendinitis flared up and caused him to miss queens and wimbledon. I don't think the visit to his doctor after Madrid was for nothing,clearly something was bothering him. In wimbledon he did the first smart thing in a long time and actually listened to his body instead of forcing it like he has done in the past.

Every tournament Nadal has entered after Wimbledon he was 100% physically(that is,he felt good enough to enter),his only problem was match time and timing on his strokes. The only problem he had after WB was a small abdomen pain which he felt was minor,seeing as he played montreal/cincy/USO with it. His bad luck was that the pain developed into a muscle tear and once again he was sidelined.


nadal was perfectly fine at RG as evidenced by his wins in the previous rounds.
his ego just couldn't take the Sod beatdown, a guy he hates with a passion.

there was no mention of injury after the match. the lame excuses started appearing weeks later.

namelessone
10-12-2009, 04:33 AM
nadal was perfectly fine at RG as evidenced by his wins in the previous rounds.
his ego just couldn't take the Sod beatdown, a guy he hates with a passion.

there was no mention of injury after the match. the lame excuses started appearing weeks later.

Weeks later? You make it sound as if a long time passed by. Nadal played his last match at RG on the 31st of May. Talks about him skipping queens started a few days later and Queens started on the 8th of June. That's basically one week. Then everyone wondered if Nadal would play Wimbledon but there were about 2 weeks between queens and wimbledon and the speculations started about whether or not Nadal would play. Nadal basically took 2 weeks off in the hopes of getting his knees better for WB but his body didn't recover fast enough.

Do you seriously believe that Nadal invented his injury to make up for his soderling loss(he never said this in so many words,he just said he didn't arrive at his best physically in RG) and then went on to certifiy the validity of this injury claim by withdrawing from the most important tournament in the world,of which he was defending champion? This is far fetched even for a hater like yourself.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-12-2009, 04:35 AM
nadal was perfectly fine at RG as evidenced by his wins in the previous rounds.
his ego just couldn't take the Sod beatdown, a guy he hates with a passion.

there was no mention of injury after the match. the lame excuses started appearing weeks later.
Great post aphex, 100% true! Thats exactly how it went down, Nad-***** created their own illusions about it

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-12-2009, 04:37 AM
Weeks later? You make it sound as if a long time passed by. Nadal played his last match at RG on the 31st of May. Talks about him skipping queens started a few days later and Queens started on the 8th of June. That's basically one week. Then everyone wondered if Nadal would play Wimbledon but there were about 2 weeks between queens and wimbledon and the speculations started about whether or not Nadal would play. Nadal basically took 2 weeks off in the hopes of getting his knees better for WB but his body didn't recover fast enough.

Do you seriously believe that Nadal invented his injury to make up for his soderling loss(he never said this in so many words,he just said he didn't arrive at his best physically in RG) and then went on to certifiy the validity of this injury claim by withdrawing from the most important tournament in the world,of which he was defending champion? This is far fetched even for a hater like yourself.

Bs ! Bs! Bs!! You dont steamroll Hewitt (even though he is not a claycourter) if you are not perfectly fine, and vs Soderling Nadal ran like a friggin rabbit, no injuries there!

namelessone
10-12-2009, 04:45 AM
Bs ! Bs! Bs!! You dont steamroll Hewitt (even though he is not a claycourter) if you are not perfectly fine, and vs Soderling Nadal ran like a friggin rabbit, no injuries there!

What's with the knee jerk reaction? Take some to read my post and then come back with some counter arguments.

Your argument is BS!!BS!!BS!!!

Let's say Nadal was not injured(I don't like this injury term,I prefer to think he came in with some knee problems but not big enough to cause him to withdraw from RG) during RG. What the hell caused him to skip queens a week later and then wimbledon? Did he get injured after RG all of a sudden(because acording to you he was just dandy in RG)? Or did he just chicken out of the biggest tournament in the world(as the Nadal haters theory would have us believe)?

So Nadal is willing to go and play HC(his worst surface) and get his *** kicked a few times by DelPo,Djoker,Cilic but he wasn't willing to go on a surface that favors him,grass,at his favourite tournament,for fear of getting beat.Come on.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-12-2009, 04:58 AM
What's with the knee jerk reaction? Take some to read my post and then come back with some counter arguments.

Your argument is BS!!BS!!BS!!!

Let's say Nadal was not injured(I don't like this injury term,I prefer to think he came in with some knee problems but not big enough to cause him to withdraw from RG) during RG. What the hell caused him to skip queens a week later and then wimbledon? Did he get injured after RG all of a sudden(because acording to you he was just dandy in RG)? Or did he just chicken out of the biggest tournament in the world(as the Nadal haters theory would have us believe)?

So Nadal is willing to go and play HC(his worst surface) and get his *** kicked a few times by DelPo,Djoker,Cilic but he wasn't willing to go on a surface that favors him,grass,at his favourite tournament,for fear of getting beat.Come on.

What i sound like too you i couldnt care less about! You havent been world-ranked-i have.

You can say whatever you want it will not change my mind, im watching the Soderling-Nadal match from FO right now and Nadal is running like ive never seen him before, pulling off some really really good shots, Soderling played out off his mind that day, smacked every ball close too the lines keeping Nadal off-rhytm and keeping the points short CONSISTENTLY. There was NOTHING Nadal could have done even if he had the speed of Usain Bolt for Gods sake!
I think he had to high levels of some forbidden substance in his body and needed too clear out his system, he was even seen practicing at 100% 1-2 days before Wimbledon! And why play exos if you have a "self-invented-injury"??? Thats insanity!!!:evil: Even the biggest Nadal-**** has to realize this deep down. Time goes by and the substances are out off his body, of course he cant practice during this time since people would question him even more if he did. thats why he looked so rusty during the late summer HC-swing.

aphex
10-12-2009, 05:14 AM
What i sound like too you i couldnt care less about! You havent been world-ranked-i have.

You can say whatever you want it will not change my mind, im watching the Soderling-Nadal match from FO right now and Nadal is running like ive never seen him before, pulling off some really really good shots, Soderling played out off his mind that day, smacked every ball close too the lines keeping Nadal off-rhytm and keeping the points short CONSISTENTLY. There was NOTHING Nadal could have done even if he had the speed of Usain Bolt for Gods sake!
I think he had to high levels of some forbidden substance in his body and needed too clear out his system, he was even seen practicing at 100% 1-2 days before Wimbledon! And why play exos if you have a "self-invented-injury"??? Thats insanity!!!:evil: Even the biggest Nadal-**** has to realize this deep down. Time goes by and the substances are out off his body, of course he cant practice during this time since people would question him even more if he did. thats why he looked so rusty during the late summer HC-swing.




absolutely. something very fishy going on there. he plays 2 exos to "test" his knees a couple of days before W. obviously, he's in a decent condition since he barely loses to two very, very good players (players far better than the ones he'd face in the first 2-3 rounds). therefore, there are only 2 choices:
a. nadal is a pvssy-he wasn't in a very good condition and decided to skip
the event altogether for fear of getting beaten at some stage.
b. something "top secret" went down and he wasn't ALLOWED to play.

take your pick...

namelessone
10-12-2009, 05:33 AM
What i sound like too you i couldnt care less about! You havent been world-ranked-i have.

You can say whatever you want it will not change my mind, im watching the Soderling-Nadal match from FO right now and Nadal is running like ive never seen him before, pulling off some really really good shots, Soderling played out off his mind that day, smacked every ball close too the lines keeping Nadal off-rhytm and keeping the points short CONSISTENTLY. There was NOTHING Nadal could have done even if he had the speed of Usain Bolt for Gods sake!
I think he had to high levels of some forbidden substance in his body and needed too clear out his system, he was even seen practicing at 100% 1-2 days before Wimbledon! And why play exos if you have a "self-invented-injury"??? Thats insanity!!!:evil: Even the biggest Nadal-**** has to realize this deep down. Time goes by and the substances are out off his body, of course he cant practice during this time since people would question him even more if he did. thats why he looked so rusty during the late summer HC-swing.

I see that you are a follower of Drakulie. Conspiracy theories run amok around here. And what does being world ranked have to do with anything? You think that because you played proffesional tennis you know Nadal's ailments better than himself?

I think you missed my point. I was talking about Nadal's health entering RG,not necessarily about the Soderling match. If Nadal needed to flush out the substances you say he took,why do it around Wimbledon? Acording to many sources,it only takes about a week to flush out the newest drugs on the market and I think Nadal can afford them. Nadal had almost a month between RG and WB.
If he got caught,why ban him for just one month,as drakulie's theory states?
He was seen practicing 1-2 days after wimbledon started,not before,get your facts straight. And it was for DC,which he didn't play in. Wanna know why? Because he wasn't able to!!!

Nadal didn't play tennis from 01.06.09-18.06.09. If I remember correctly,he played 2 exo's on the 18 and 19 of June to test his knees in a real match. He felt that they weren't good enough and withdrew. Is it such a stretch of the imagination to see that Nadal took 2 weeks off to rest his weary knees after RG and only then tried them out in a real match to see how he feels about entering Wimbledon?

Here's a summary of your conspiracy theory to see how silly it sounds:

Nadal enters RG perfectly healthy. He gets beat by Soderling and a few days later "invents" a injury in order to excuse his defeat. He withdraws from Queens and then play 2 exo's just to keep up the appearance that he is at least trying to play and that he has a real injury. He then withdraws from wimbledon,the biggest tournament in the world,whilst being defending champion just to keep up appearances again. But of course secretly,Nadal has been caught doping before or after RG and the ATP have banned him FOR ONE MONTH(that's got to be the shortest ban in the history of tennis),the other month being free time in the calendar.

In order to keep the illusion that he was injured Nadal purposely stays away from practice for 2 months(even though he stated many times that he started his physical recovery in the second month) and comes back playing like **** but improving as the tournaments goes on,just like a person who had a real timeout because of injury. And he also looks thinner,not because he lost weight in order to ease the strain on his knees,but because he has flushed the drugs from his system(presumbably the doping agents balooned him up with about 5kg of weight).

And now Nadal looks really weak in the summer HC tournaments according to you. Nevermind the fact that he looks ok physically and that his problems are related to his game,not his health,and to the fact that he can't handle the fast HC courts,you know just like last year,when he was supposedly "pumped up" and winning Cincy/USO(the fastest court around). Oh wait,no he wasn't,he was getting his *** kicked by djoker in cincy(with almost the same scoreline as this year) and by murray in USO.

namelessone
10-12-2009, 05:40 AM
[/B]



absolutely. something very fishy going on there. he plays 2 exos to "test" his knees a couple of days before W. obviously, he's in a decent condition since he barely loses to two very, very good players (players far better than the ones he'd face in the first 2-3 rounds). therefore, there are only 2 choices:
a. nadal is a pvssy-he wasn't in a very good condition and decided to skip
the event altogether for fear of getting beaten at some stage.
b. something "top secret" went down and he wasn't ALLOWED to play.

take your pick...

It's a conspiracy I tell you!!!!

a)Let's say Nadal was ok physically around wimbledon. He chooses not to play on grass,a surface which favours him,at wimbledon,where he is defending champion,for fear of getting beat at some point but he chooses to come back after the supposed injury on his worst surface and take 4 massive beatings at the hands of delpo(twice),djoker and cilic. Yeah,real likely scenario.

b)See my post above about Nadal's flushing out of the drugs.

The conspiracy theorists need to take their pick. Nadal either withdrew because he was scared people were going to beat him,because the ATP caught and banned him,or because he mistimed the use of his doping agents and didn't want to get caught with his pants down when they would have tested him in SW19. Take your pick.

aphex
10-12-2009, 05:45 AM
It's a conspiracy I tell you!!!!

a)Let's say Nadal was ok physically around wimbledon. He chooses not to play on grass,a surface which favours him,at wimbledon,where he is defending champion,for fear of getting beat at some point but he chooses to come back after the supposed injury on his worst surface and take 4 massive beatings at the hands of delpo(twice),djoker and cilic. Yeah,real likely scenario.

b)See my post above about Nadal's flushing out of the drugs.

you are aware he barely lost to wawrinka and hewitt a couple of days before wimby?

players much better than the ones he'd face in the first rounds..

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-12-2009, 05:48 AM
I see that you are a follower of Drakulie. Conspiracy theories run amok around here. And what does being world ranked have to do with anything? You think that because you played proffesional tennis you know Nadal's ailments better than himself?

I think you missed my point. I was talking about Nadal's health entering RG,not necessarily about the Soderling match. If Nadal needed to flush out the substances you say he took,why do it around Wimbledon? Acording to many sources,it only takes about a week to flush out the newest drugs on the market and I think Nadal can afford them. Nadal had almost a month between RG and WB.
If he got caught,why ban him for just one month,as drakulie's theory states?
He was seen practicing 1-2 days after wimbledon started,not before,get your facts straight. And it was for DC,which he didn't play in. Wanna know why? Because he wasn't able to!!!

Nadal didn't play tennis from 01.06.09-18.06.09. If I remember correctly,he played 2 exo's on the 18 and 19 of June to test his knees in a real match. He felt that they weren't good enough and withdrew. Is it such a stretch of the imagination to see that Nadal took 2 weeks off to rest his weary knees after RG and only then tried them out in a real match to see how he feels about entering Wimbledon?

Here's a summary of your conspiracy theory to see how silly it sounds:

Nadal enters RG perfectly healthy. He gets beat by Soderling and a few days later "invents" a injury in order to excuse his defeat. He withdraws from Queens and then play 2 exo's just to keep up the appearance that he is at least trying to play and that he has a real injury. He then withdraws from wimbledon,the biggest tournament in the world,whilst being defending champion just to keep up appearances again. But of course secretly,Nadal has been caught doping before or after RG and the ATP have banned him FOR ONE MONTH(that's got to be the shortest ban in the history of tennis),the other month being free time in the calendar.

In order to keep the illusion that he was injured Nadal purposely stays away from practice for 2 months(even though he stated many times that he started his physical recovery in the second month) and comes back playing like **** but improving as the tournaments goes on,just like a person who had a real timeout because of injury. And he also looks thinner,not because he lost weight in order to ease the strain on his knees,but because he has flushed the drugs from his system(presumbably the doping agents balooned him up with about 5kg of weight).

And now Nadal looks really weak in the summer HC tournaments according to you. Nevermind the fact that he looks ok physically and that his problems are related to his game,not his health,and to the fact that he can't handle the fast HC courts,you know just like last year,when he was supposedly "pumped up" and winning Cincy/USO(the fastest court around). Oh wait,no he wasn't,he was getting his *** kicked by djoker in cincy(with almost the same scoreline as this year) and by murray in USO.

Im a follower off myself.
Playing pro tennis ive seen guys who were on roids and what happens.
You obviously know what you are talking about unlike most other Nadal-fans and you even have some good points.
BUT...Why does Nadal look so skinny now? Having knee-problems he could still workout his upperbody, right?
Do YOU (like all Nad-*****) think he had knee-problems vs Soderling in FO?
He played really close matches with Wawrinka and Hewitt days before Wimbledon, and then decides too be the first man in history NOT too defend his Wimbledon-title? Of course people are gonna speculate and question him!:evil:

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-12-2009, 05:50 AM
you are aware he barely lost to wawrinka and hewitt a couple of days before wimby?

players much better than the ones he'd face in the first rounds..
That is absolutely true!

lovecr717
10-12-2009, 05:57 AM
we simply cannot keep up with the spaniard's pathetic excuses.

first it's "i don't play unless i'm 100%, no?"

then, weeks after he was beaten like a drum by le sod it's "i was injured at RG, no?"

someone please explain how you can be 100% and injured at the same time.

thumbs up this post made my day.

mandy01
10-12-2009, 06:18 AM
I wouldnt say he faked it but he's trying to pile up all his losses on his injuries..and he's done that more often than not.Not to mention I do think he and his uncle really exaggerrate his injuries..especially his uncle.
Last year Roger had mono..and we had to hear *******s complain about Roger putting it up as an excuse,putting the back injury as an excuse whereas their own boy has been giving injury as a reason for his losses for the last 4 or 5 years.
A lot of what gets written by Federer fans is usually sarcasm to point out the *******s' double standards .I wouldnt read too much into it if I were you.

statto
10-12-2009, 06:26 AM
you are aware he barely lost to wawrinka and hewitt a couple of days before wimby?

players much better than the ones he'd face in the first rounds..

He lost to two players he should be beating in straight sets.

The matches were best of three, not best of five.

All watching could see his frustration at his hampered movement.

So he has two options: (1) go to Wimbledon, maybe make it through a few rounds before losing to someone half decent, and in the meantime do his knees further damage, or (2) pull out of Wimbledon in the hope of being somewhere near peak fitness for the HC season.

I think he made the right decision.

drakulie
10-12-2009, 06:41 AM
For those people who say Nadal never had an injury during or before RG:

1) If he wasn't injured, then doesn't that make him one of the biggest cheats/fakers ever, since it basically means he skipped out of the greatest tennis tournament in the world (and Queens and Davis Cup) for no reason?

He was suspended, which would still make him a cheat.

mandy01
10-12-2009, 06:45 AM
:lol::lol: drak

drakulie
10-12-2009, 06:54 AM
:lol::lol: drak

hehehehehe. :evil:

SerbWhoLovesDelPo
10-12-2009, 07:02 AM
He was suspended, which would still make him a cheat.

I've been here for a month, and I already saw that coming from a mile away.

TMF
10-12-2009, 07:48 AM
He was playing insane tennis at RG. Winning streak has to end at certain point and it happen to be Soderling. He was playing great tennis, a perfect guy to beat him b/c he's a big, tall, power hitter where Nadal has history of having problem with power hitters. And he's just lost to a tall player Cilic the other day. Not a coincidence here.

Avoiding to accept a tough, tough loss, using injury is the obvious excuse to discredit Soderling.

As I've mentioned it before....since 2005-08, Nadal played awfully alot of tennis during the clay season, won RG and never skipped the warmup tourney and SW19. An extremely harsh schedule, hardly any time to rest, but never claimed injury. Now in 2009, a shocking loss on his favorite surface, he decide to skipped both tourneys(queen/SW19). Makes no sense. When he wins, he'll continue to play(05-08), but after a huge upset, losing confident, he reject to stand up and fight.

namelessone
10-12-2009, 12:05 PM
Im a follower off myself.
Playing pro tennis ive seen guys who were on roids and what happens.
You obviously know what you are talking about unlike most other Nadal-fans and you even have some good points.
BUT...Why does Nadal look so skinny now? Having knee-problems he could still workout his upperbody, right?
Do YOU (like all Nad-*****) think he had knee-problems vs Soderling in FO?
He played really close matches with Wawrinka and Hewitt days before Wimbledon, and then decides too be the first man in history NOT too defend his Wimbledon-title? Of course people are gonna speculate and question him!:evil:

You must not be reading my posts. I said that he didn't come at his best physically in RG,not that he lost to soderling because of that.Many observers said that Nadal didn't really show his best tennis in the soderling match(mcenroe and navratilova being just some of them) and even the FYB(fuzzy yellow balls)guy said that Nadal had an off day.

Did he have knee problems with Soderling? Honest to God,I don't know,I am not Nadal. But I did see that he had problems before RG,which he brought upon himself by overplaying. Nadal looked very sloppy in the first round,both in movement and in strokes. He had 2 close sets with Daniel!!!. Freaking daniel,a decent claycourter,but who was 31 years old at the time and playing pretty average tennis himself. Nadal also lost a set to nr.109 in the world in an exo. Whether it was physical or just game-wise,Nadal wasn't at his best in this year's RG. The gabashvili and hewitt matches aren't relevant to me. I saw both of those matches and in neither one did Nadal play great tennis. He played just enough to get past the rookie gabashvili and "clay legend" hewitt,who didn't do much to trouble Nadal on that day.

You,like all the people who attack Nadal on the basis of his wimbledon withdrawal,fail to see the purpose of those exo's. Nadal came off a 2 week rest for his knees after RG,skipping queens,and decided on the eve of wimbledon(he wanted to wait as much as possible) to test his knees against two tough opponents,hewitt and wawrinka. He barely lost but all reports of onlookers said that while Nadal moved good,he often cringed and held his knees after certain point,and I don't think it was for show. Nadal saw the grim reality that his tendinitis was bothering him too much and couldn't keep focused on his game. Nothing more,nothing less. If the consensus was to skip wimbledon from the get-go,why put on a "show"? Did Nadal really get his knee scanned in Barca(from what I remember),fly to london,test his knees,hold a press conference,just to sell us a "fake" injury? It would have been much easier to stay in Mallorca and say that he has tendinitis problems and that's it. Everybody would have believed him and no one would have doubted his story.

Nadal is "skinny" because he lost 5kg at the suggestion of his nutritionist,in order to have less pressure on the already battered knees. And where does this general consensus come from that Nadal lost weight in the upper body? Nadal wasn't that big before,he is a guy with a big left bicep,huge tree trunk legs and some decent back muscles. He had almost no pecs(and still hasn't) and I've seen tennis players that are way more cut than Nadal,not to mention some that are bigger. Google up some topless practice pictures of guys like Verdasco,Tursunov,Safin,Tsonga,nowadays Murray,Monfils and many many others who are more prone to suspicion that Nadal if the same standards apply. Nadal lost weight in his legs from what I've seen. And his polo shirt doesn't hug his body like the sleeveless so he looks leaner,not to mention the fact that his still big biceps is hidden by the sleeves.

This is Nadal before his injury,when he wore sleeveless:
http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/aaaaaaaaarafaa6.jpg

This is Nadal after his injury ordeal,in montreal doubles:
http://cowbell.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83423e30253ef0120a4e2857c970b-400wi

And mind you,he is actually flexing in the first picture. Doesn't look all that different to me.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-12-2009, 12:09 PM
You must not be reading my posts. I said that he didn't come at his best physically in RG,not that he lost to soderling because of that.Many observers said that Nadal didn't really show his best tennis in the soderling match(mcenroe and navratilova being just some of them) and even the FYB(fuzzy yellow balls)guy said that Nadal had an off day.

Did he have knee problems with Soderling? Honest to God,I don't know,I am not Nadal. But I did see that he had problems before RG,which he brought upon himself by overplaying. Nadal looked very sloppy in the first round,both in movement and in strokes. He had 2 close sets with Daniel!!!. Freaking daniel,a decent claycourter,but who was 31 years old at the time and playing pretty average tennis himself. Nadal also lost a set to nr.109 in the world in an exo. Whether it was physical or just game-wise,Nadal wasn't at his best in this year's RG. The gabashvili and hewitt matches aren't relevant to me. I saw both of those matches and in neither one did Nadal play great tennis. He played just enough to get past the rookie gabashvili and "clay legend" hewitt,who didn't do much to trouble Nadal on that day.

You,like all the people who attack Nadal on the basis of his wimbledon withdrawal,fail to see the purpose of those exo's. Nadal came off a 2 week rest for his knees after RG,skipping queens,and decided on the eve of wimbledon(he wanted to wait as much as possible) to test his knees against two tough opponents,hewitt and wawrinka. He barely lost but all reports of onlookers said that while Nadal moved good,he often cringed and held his knees after certain point,and I don't think it was for show. Nadal saw the grim reality that his tendinitis was bothering him too much and couldn't keep focused on his game. Nothing more,nothing less. If the consensus was to skip wimbledon from the get-go,why put on a "show"? Did Nadal really get his knee scanned in Barca(from what I remember),fly to london,test his knees,hold a press conference,just to sell us a "fake" injury? It would have been much easier to stay in Mallorca and say that he has tendinitis problems and that's it. Everybody would have believed him and no one would have doubted his story.

Nadal is "skinny" because he lost 5kg at the suggestion of his nutritionist,in order to have less pressure on the already battered knees. And where does this general consensus come from that Nadal lost weight in the upper body? Nadal wasn't that big before,he is a guy with a big left bicep,huge tree trunk legs and some decent back muscles. He had almost no pecs(and still hasn't) and I've seen tennis players that are way more cut than Nadal,not to mention some that are bigger. Google up some topless practice pictures of guys like Verdasco,Tursunov,Safin,Tsonga,nowadays Murray,Monfils and many many others who are more prone to suspicion that Nadal if the same standards apply. Nadal lost weight in his legs from what I've seen. And his polo shirt doesn't hug his body like the sleeveless so he looks leaner,not to mention the fact that his still big biceps is hidden by the sleeves.

This is Nadal before his injury,when he wore sleeveless:
http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/aaaaaaaaarafaa6.jpg

This is Nadal after his injury ordeal,in montreal doubles:
http://cowbell.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83423e30253ef0120a4e2857c970b-400wi

And mind you,he is actually flexing in the first picture. Doesn't look all that different to me.

Alright, thats the way you look at it, not the way i look at it.

big bang
10-12-2009, 12:30 PM
You must not be reading my posts. I said that he didn't come at his best physically in RG,not that he lost to soderling because of that.Many observers said that Nadal didn't really show his best tennis in the soderling match(mcenroe and navratilova being just some of them) and even the FYB(fuzzy yellow balls)guy said that Nadal had an off day.

Did he have knee problems with Soderling? Honest to God,I don't know,I am not Nadal. But I did see that he had problems before RG,which he brought upon himself by overplaying. Nadal looked very sloppy in the first round,both in movement and in strokes. He had 2 close sets with Daniel!!!. Freaking daniel,a decent claycourter,but who was 31 years old at the time and playing pretty average tennis himself. Nadal also lost a set to nr.109 in the world in an exo. Whether it was physical or just game-wise,Nadal wasn't at his best in this year's RG. The gabashvili and hewitt matches aren't relevant to me. I saw both of those matches and in neither one did Nadal play great tennis. He played just enough to get past the rookie gabashvili and "clay legend" hewitt,who didn't do much to trouble Nadal on that day.

You,like all the people who attack Nadal on the basis of his wimbledon withdrawal,fail to see the purpose of those exo's. Nadal came off a 2 week rest for his knees after RG,skipping queens,and decided on the eve of wimbledon(he wanted to wait as much as possible) to test his knees against two tough opponents,hewitt and wawrinka. He barely lost but all reports of onlookers said that while Nadal moved good,he often cringed and held his knees after certain point,and I don't think it was for show. Nadal saw the grim reality that his tendinitis was bothering him too much and couldn't keep focused on his game. Nothing more,nothing less. If the consensus was to skip wimbledon from the get-go,why put on a "show"? Did Nadal really get his knee scanned in Barca(from what I remember),fly to london,test his knees,hold a press conference,just to sell us a "fake" injury? It would have been much easier to stay in Mallorca and say that he has tendinitis problems and that's it. Everybody would have believed him and no one would have doubted his story.

Nadal is "skinny" because he lost 5kg at the suggestion of his nutritionist,in order to have less pressure on the already battered knees. And where does this general consensus come from that Nadal lost weight in the upper body? Nadal wasn't that big before,he is a guy with a big left bicep,huge tree trunk legs and some decent back muscles. He had almost no pecs(and still hasn't) and I've seen tennis players that are way more cut than Nadal,not to mention some that are bigger. Google up some topless practice pictures of guys like Verdasco,Tursunov,Safin,Tsonga,nowadays Murray,Monfils and many many others who are more prone to suspicion that Nadal if the same standards apply. Nadal lost weight in his legs from what I've seen. And his polo shirt doesn't hug his body like the sleeveless so he looks leaner,not to mention the fact that his still big biceps is hidden by the sleeves.

This is Nadal before his injury,when he wore sleeveless:
http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/aaaaaaaaarafaa6.jpg

This is Nadal after his injury ordeal,in montreal doubles:
http://cowbell.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83423e30253ef0120a4e2857c970b-400wi

And mind you,he is actually flexing in the first picture. Doesn't look all that different to me.

+1 good post, I totally agree!

sureshs
10-12-2009, 12:34 PM
He was suspended, which would still make him a cheat.

For doping?

penguyen17
10-12-2009, 02:20 PM
Can't we all just be fans of tennis and not get caught up in the bitterness? Some of you guys sound like you would go to war over this. "Nad-*****" and "fed-haters" whatever it is, just drop it. Ultimately, our opinions dont matter in the large scope of things. So just stop the hating and enjoy the tennis.

JennyS
10-12-2009, 04:01 PM
[/B]



absolutely. something very fishy going on there. he plays 2 exos to "test" his knees a couple of days before W. obviously, he's in a decent condition since he barely loses to two very, very good players (players far better than the ones he'd face in the first 2-3 rounds). therefore, there are only 2 choices:
a. nadal is a pvssy-he wasn't in a very good condition and decided to skip
the event altogether for fear of getting beaten at some stage.
b. something "top secret" went down and he wasn't ALLOWED to play.

take your pick...

I have a conspiracy theory on why Nadal skipped Wimbledon. He was so embarrassed by being beaten by Soderling that he was willing to give up Wimbledon just to prove he was injured the whole time. That way he didn't really lose at the French Open: his knees did!

Sartorius
10-12-2009, 04:57 PM
It has to be said again, to suggest that he faked the injury and the retirement from Wimby is laughable in the least, if not totally idiotic.

When talking about whether he had an injury at RG, people talk about his previous matches, how he hammered Hewitt and so forth.. He beat his opponents in straight sets but as others mentioned I also don't think he looked like his usual self in any of his matches in RG. Yes, there were some of his usual clay brilliance here and there. But especially while watching his 1st round match, and even at some bits against Hewitt, I thought that occasionally Nadal was looking edgy and uncomfortable on the court, which is not like him.

The thing is (you probably heard this a lot but no harm in repeating in it): Fitness and staying healthy is a part of every sport. It wasn't just about Nadal being injured or not being fit... This will sound harsh but I'd say this is the final and the essential truth in this matter: Nadal failed to be fit and stay injury-free this season. I can safely say this because Nadal himself admitted that he made mistakes. Basically, he had it coming, and this doesn't take away anything whatsoever from Soderling's win in RG, and to also touch a more hilarious suggestion, it doesn't take anything from Federer's win in Wimby as well.

That is all.

brc444
10-12-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't believe in any of the so called Nadal conspiracy theories or that he was faking injuries etc. However, I think that Nadal's standard that he had to be 100% well to play Wimby was the wrong stardard -- it should have been well enough to play at a competitive level. When deciding whether to play, I thought he should have eased into the exhibitions -- 2 sets too much and 2 consecutive days too much -- furthermore what is he testing by playing consecutive days when you play every other day at Wimby.

wihamilton
10-12-2009, 05:49 PM
You must not be reading my posts. I said that he didn't come at his best physically in RG,not that he lost to soderling because of that.Many observers said that Nadal didn't really show his best tennis in the soderling match(mcenroe and navratilova being just some of them) and even the FYB(fuzzy yellow balls)guy said that Nadal had an off day.

Did he have knee problems with Soderling? Honest to God,I don't know,I am not Nadal. But I did see that he had problems before RG,which he brought upon himself by overplaying. Nadal looked very sloppy in the first round,both in movement and in strokes. He had 2 close sets with Daniel!!!. Freaking daniel,a decent claycourter,but who was 31 years old at the time and playing pretty average tennis himself. Nadal also lost a set to nr.109 in the world in an exo. Whether it was physical or just game-wise,Nadal wasn't at his best in this year's RG. The gabashvili and hewitt matches aren't relevant to me. I saw both of those matches and in neither one did Nadal play great tennis. He played just enough to get past the rookie gabashvili and "clay legend" hewitt,who didn't do much to trouble Nadal on that day.

You,like all the people who attack Nadal on the basis of his wimbledon withdrawal,fail to see the purpose of those exo's. Nadal came off a 2 week rest for his knees after RG,skipping queens,and decided on the eve of wimbledon(he wanted to wait as much as possible) to test his knees against two tough opponents,hewitt and wawrinka. He barely lost but all reports of onlookers said that while Nadal moved good,he often cringed and held his knees after certain point,and I don't think it was for show. Nadal saw the grim reality that his tendinitis was bothering him too much and couldn't keep focused on his game. Nothing more,nothing less. If the consensus was to skip wimbledon from the get-go,why put on a "show"? Did Nadal really get his knee scanned in Barca(from what I remember),fly to london,test his knees,hold a press conference,just to sell us a "fake" injury? It would have been much easier to stay in Mallorca and say that he has tendinitis problems and that's it. Everybody would have believed him and no one would have doubted his story.

Nadal is "skinny" because he lost 5kg at the suggestion of his nutritionist,in order to have less pressure on the already battered knees. And where does this general consensus come from that Nadal lost weight in the upper body? Nadal wasn't that big before,he is a guy with a big left bicep,huge tree trunk legs and some decent back muscles. He had almost no pecs(and still hasn't) and I've seen tennis players that are way more cut than Nadal,not to mention some that are bigger. Google up some topless practice pictures of guys like Verdasco,Tursunov,Safin,Tsonga,nowadays Murray,Monfils and many many others who are more prone to suspicion that Nadal if the same standards apply. Nadal lost weight in his legs from what I've seen. And his polo shirt doesn't hug his body like the sleeveless so he looks leaner,not to mention the fact that his still big biceps is hidden by the sleeves.

This is Nadal before his injury,when he wore sleeveless:
http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/aaaaaaaaarafaa6.jpg

This is Nadal after his injury ordeal,in montreal doubles:
http://cowbell.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83423e30253ef0120a4e2857c970b-400wi

And mind you,he is actually flexing in the first picture. Doesn't look all that different to me.

My name is Will =)

Nadal was definitely injured at RG. Obviously, it wasn't a debilitating injury -- he could still play at a high level. But he couldn't play to the best of his abilities.

This fact doesn't, imo, diminish Soderling's win. He played incredibly well and won that match (as opposed to Nadal losing it). In fact, the strategy he used that match is now the blueprint for all other big-hitting, tall players -- go big, control the middle of the court, stay on the baseline / keep Nadal behind the baseline.

I didn't see the recent Cilic - Nadal match but it sounds like Cilic used this approach as well... can anyone confirm? Thx.

drakulie
10-12-2009, 06:15 PM
Nadal was definitely injured at RG. .


No he wasn't.

wyutani
10-12-2009, 06:16 PM
nadal lost to cilic becos nadal simply couldnt keep his serve. his serve is too weak.

wihamilton
10-12-2009, 06:21 PM
No he wasn't.

His knees weren't 100%. That's not just my opinion -- that's from folks involved in his practice sessions during RG.

drakulie
10-12-2009, 06:25 PM
His knees weren't 100%. That's not just my opinion -- that's from folks involved in his practice sessions during RG.

Yeah, you mean the same team that told him to take three weeks off because of his injury, and yet he was on the practice court three days later? The same team that tells him to play doubles, or helps him set his schedule? Is that the team you are talking about?

I don't buy it.

wihamilton
10-12-2009, 06:28 PM
Yeah, you mean the same team that told him to take three weeks off because of his injury, and yet he was on the practice court three days later? The same team that tells him to play doubles, or helps him set his schedule? Is that the team you are talking about?

I don't buy it.

Nope. Info wasn't from someone in his crew. Unbiased source.

drakulie
10-12-2009, 06:40 PM
Nope. Info wasn't from someone in his crew. Unbiased source.


sorry, but not buying it. No one who is injured plays 20+ matches, and then two exos, when they claim, "they didn't know the extent of the injury, or what the injury even was". They wouldn't just leave that to chance.

wihamilton
10-12-2009, 06:42 PM
sorry, but not buying it. No one who is injured plays 20+ matches, and then two exos, when they claim, "they didn't know the extent of the injury, or what the injury even was". They wouldn't just leave that to chance.

Why do you think he didn't play Wimbledon?

drakulie
10-12-2009, 06:43 PM
Why do you think he didn't play Wimbledon?

serving a "soft suspension".

and BTW, three days after Wimbledon began, he was on a practice court, even though we were all told he would be taking 3 weeks off to due testing, rest, and recovery, because suppsedly, they still didn't know his diagnosis.

jamesblakefan#1
10-12-2009, 06:46 PM
OK Drak, since you ducked my question in the other thread, I'll ask you here - What incentive would the ATP and ITF have to cover up for Nadal and a positive steroid test, as you assert, and risk the name of the sport forever?

drakulie
10-12-2009, 06:55 PM
OK Drak, since you ducked my question in the other thread, I'll ask you here - What incentive would the ATP and ITF have to cover up for Nadal and a positive steroid test, as you assert, and risk the name of the sport forever?

Just because you don't agree with my answer, doesn't mean I haven't answered this already several times.

But here you go again, since you seem to have memory loss:

MONEY and Embarassment, not to mention the mess it would make on the record books.



PS: You should really go see someone about this memory loss thing.

Serendipitous
10-12-2009, 06:56 PM
OK Drak, since you ducked my question in the other thread, I'll ask you here - What incentive would the ATP and ITF have to cover up for Nadal and a positive steroid test, as you assert, and risk the name of the sport forever?

Nadal doesn't take steroids.....I swear on James Blake's grave. :)

Talker
10-12-2009, 07:11 PM
Not too sure how sore his knees were, he did play some before Wimby.

I just don't understand why he wouldn't try to play Wimby.
There was a chance that the problem wouldn't get better after a round or two. In that case he could withdraw.
With good treatment the problem may have gotten somewhat better, who knows.

Losing to Robin of all people had to hurt bad, it could have been a combination of the tendinitis and the RG lose.
I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, he deserves that at least from how I see it.
I've basically moved on though however.

jamesblakefan#1
10-12-2009, 07:16 PM
Just because you don't agree with my answer, doesn't mean I haven't answered this already several times.

But here you go again, since you seem to have memory loss:

MONEY and Embarassment, not to mention the mess it would make on the record books.

PS: You should really go see someone about this memory loss thing.

I have better things in life to remember than your convoluted conspiracies about Nadal, believe me.

If a cover up was found out, it would make an even bigger stain on the sport than just releasing Nadal's name, would it not?

drakulie
10-12-2009, 07:21 PM
I have better things in life to remember than your convoluted conspiracies about Nadal, believe me.

Then don't ask, and stop trolling in threads that have nothing to do with this topic.

jamesblakefan#1
10-12-2009, 07:28 PM
You brought up the 'suspension'. I try to discuss it and you call me a troll. Real mature. :roll:

NamRanger
10-12-2009, 07:36 PM
OK Drak, since you ducked my question in the other thread, I'll ask you here - What incentive would the ATP and ITF have to cover up for Nadal and a positive steroid test, as you assert, and risk the name of the sport forever?



Imagine the mess that would happen if they did find out. Now, a cover-up is highly unlikely to be discovered, since the ITF seems to be pretty good at this hush hush stuff.


I mean, come on now. 30+ players had abnormal levels of testosterone a few years back and then it got swept under the rug and nothing was ever made of it. Really?

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 07:38 PM
serving a "soft suspension".

and BTW, three days after Wimbledon began, he was on a practice court, even though we were all told he would be taking 3 weeks off to due testing, rest, and recovery, because suppsedly, they still didn't know his diagnosis.

Wimbledon began June 22nd... you said Nadal was on a court June 26th (which is false).

Go back to grade school, learn basic math skills, count the days in between, and then come back to TW.

Thanks

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 07:40 PM
Imagine the mess that would happen if they did find out. Now, a cover-up is highly unlikely to be discovered, since the ITF seems to be pretty good at this hush hush stuff.

But yet Drakulie cracked the case?

HA!

drakulie
10-12-2009, 07:43 PM
Nadal was on a court June 26th

I know. I already said this, film boy.

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 07:44 PM
I know. I already said this, film boy.

And June 26th is not 3 days after Wimbledon began, math boy.

If you're going to troll, atleast use a calculator.

Thanks

drakulie
10-12-2009, 07:53 PM
And June 26th is not 3 days after Wimbledon began, math boy.

If you're going to troll, atleast use a calculator.

Thanks


OK film boy. Thanks for letting us all know Nadal was on a practice court 4 days after wimbledon began while serving his suspension.

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 07:57 PM
OK film boy. Thanks for letting us all know Nadal was on a practice court 4 days after wimbledon began.

He wasn't on a practice court 4 days after Wimbledon began, obviously. There's no proof that he was.

Nadal was not on a practice court during Wimbledon.

drakulie
10-12-2009, 07:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtxK2Y992PQ

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 07:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtxK2Y992PQ

There is no mention of Nadal being on a tennis court.

Subtitles: Subtitles: RenunciÓ a Queen's, se ha perdido Wimbledon, pero todo llega, Rafa se plantea jugar los cuartos de final de la eliminatoria de Copa Davis contra Alemania de aquÍ a 2 semanas. Nadal sigue con el tratamiento, entrena todavÍa de manera suave y se pasa horas y horas en el gimnasio y en la piscina haciendo ejercicios de recuperaciÓn.
Si todo va bien y las rodillas responded quiere estar en Marbella para jugar contra Alemania el 10 de Julio.


or, in English:

“After resigning from Queens and withdrawing from Wimbledon, Rafa considers to play Quarterfinals of the Davis Cup against Germany in 2 weeks. Nadal continues with treatment, still training lightly/smoothly and he spends hours and hours in the gimnasio [gym, gymnasium, or health club] and in the swimming pool doing recovery exercises. If everything goes well, he wants to be in Marbella to play against Germany the 10th of July.”

No mention of a tennis court (or "Pista de tenis" in Spanish and Catalan, also). Please tell me where in the subtitles (spanish) or in the video (catalan) a tennis court is mentioned at all?

drakulie
10-12-2009, 08:02 PM
here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtxK2Y992PQ

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 08:03 PM
Once again,

No mention of a tennis court (or "Pista de tenis" in Spanish and Catalan, also). Please tell me where in the subtitles (spanish) or in the video (catalan) a tennis court is mentioned at all?

You are a liar, basically.

drakulie
10-12-2009, 08:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtxK2Y992PQ

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 08:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ5yP050s98

drakulie
10-12-2009, 08:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vnJfEJvZnE

random guy
10-12-2009, 08:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtxK2Y992PQ

I hate myself for asking this but Drakulie do you really believe that video actually means anything? There's no way of knowing even if the images aren't stock images from like 3 years ago. The text in spanish says that he's spending a lot of hours doing rehabilitation exercises which is not the same as training.

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 08:18 PM
I hate myself for asking this but Drakulie do you really believe that video actually means anything? There's no way of knowing even if the images aren't stock images from like 3 years ago. The text in spanish says that he's spending a lot of hours doing rehabilitation exercises which is not the same as training.

The video does not mention Nadal on a tennis court, in fact.

Here is a video, FROM THE SAME SOURCE as Drakulie's last video, clarifying that the FIRST time Nadal stepped on a court to play tennis since withdrawing from Wimbledon was July 20th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfAjGyP_VOw&NR=1

So Drakulie is wrong.

drakulie
10-12-2009, 08:21 PM
I hate myself for asking this but Drakulie do you really believe that video actually means anything? There's no way of knowing even if the images aren't stock images from like 3 years ago. The text in spanish says that he's spending a lot of hours doing rehabilitation exercises which is not the same as training.


how about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz0qwiy92cs

random guy
10-12-2009, 08:28 PM
how about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz0qwiy92cs

It's really difficult to fight to "save his manhood" wearing a cream cardigan and a man-purse really :-?

Agassifan
10-12-2009, 09:01 PM
Tired at RG, maybe. Injured at RG? No freaking way

obsessedtennisfandisorder
10-12-2009, 09:14 PM
here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtxK2Y992PQ

Drakulie...seems like many here question your motives,

why don't you take a bigger picture approach and quote Courier
and WADA boss David Howman on how the ATP won't test properly
and thus won't name and shame their
dopers....
the 2004 "famous seven" etc....

I'm thinking of making this my new sig:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

BreakPoint
10-12-2009, 11:57 PM
I do believe Nadal was injured. But not enough to have affected his results. He would have lost to Soderling at RG regardless. Heck, he won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome, and got to the finals of Madrid and to the 4th round of RG with this same "injury".

Since he's been back from his injury, he hasn't even made a single final, let alone win a tournament. He's been absolutely crushed by Del Potro, Djokovic, and Cilic. So I don't think his injury affected his play nor his results. If anything, he played better and had better results when he was injured!

namelessone
10-13-2009, 12:24 AM
I do believe Nadal was injured. But not enough to have affected his results. He would have lost to Soderling at RG regardless. Heck, he won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome, and got to the finals of Madrid and to the 4th round of RG with this same "injury".

Since he's been back from his injury, he hasn't even made a single final, let alone win a tournament. He's been absolutely crushed by Del Potro, Djokovic, and Cilic. So I don't think his injury affected his play nor his results. If anything, he played better and had better results when he was injured!

Nadal's knee pain started in MC. From the 12 of April to the 4th of May he played with pain non-stop,no breaks in between. Then he rests one week and plays another tournament,still with pain. After Madrid he sees his doctor to get his knees examined. After RG he withdraws and I don't think it was out of fear of losing,suspension for doping or other BS reasons other users make up. Surely you don't think that playing with pain for a limited amount of time(let's say a week) is the same as playing with pain for 3 weeks non-stop,playing every day(not to mention practice),resting just one week and then playing another tournament. Nadal's knees aren't made of titanium as far as I know,it's only natural that they would give in at some point.

Nadal's defeats after his recovery have nothing to do with injury,they have to do with big hitters on fast courts. Last year,when Nadal wasn't injured during RG and WB,he still got his *** kicked on the fast courts of the American HC season,so tell me,what has changed? It's BS to compare his results on clay(best surface) while his pains were just starting to his results on HC(worst surface) after his recovery from the injury that overplaying with pain caused.

mandy01
10-13-2009, 12:32 AM
^^ Nadal said he had been playing through pain for nine months in one of his interviews..thats got to be way before MC.Either that or he isnt sure of when it started

SerbWhoLovesDelPo
10-13-2009, 12:37 AM
I wouldnt say he faked it but he's trying to pile up all his losses on his injuries..and he's done that more often than not.Not to mention I do think he and his uncle really exaggerrate his injuries..especially his uncle.
Last year Roger had mono..and we had to hear *******s complain about Roger putting it up as an excuse,putting the back injury as an excuse whereas their own boy has been giving injury as a reason for his losses for the last 4 or 5 years.
A lot of what gets written by Federer fans is usually sarcasm to point out the *******s' double standards .I wouldnt read too much into it if I were you.

This is probably the correct answer.
-----------------
I wonder, did everyone ever change his/her mind based on arguments written on TT?

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 01:15 AM
Nadal's defeats after his recovery have nothing to do with injury,they have to do with big hitters on fast courts. Last year,when Nadal wasn't injured during RG and WB,he still got his *** kicked on the fast courts of the American HC season,so tell me,what has changed? It's BS to compare his results on clay(best surface) while his pains were just starting to his results on HC(worst surface) after his recovery from the injury that overplaying with pain caused.
Um...he won Canada and the Olympics both on hard courts last year.

He won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Hamburg last year while not injured.
He won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Rome this year while "injured". So tell me, what's changed?

Blinkism
10-13-2009, 01:22 AM
^^ I don't think he was injured as much as playing through pain.

In the sense that whatever injury he did have, he could play through it. It wasn't debilitating.

Kind of like Federer's back pains. He played through them last summer and still won the USO and they reappeared this spring but he made AO finals and won the FO!

These are minor injuries, basically.

I think Nadal felt like he aggravated it in the Madrid semi-final and was afraid of really asserting himself after that. So, while the injury wasn't around for the RG, I think Nadal didn't want to risk turning it into a major injury in the grass season and skipped it.

It was more of a mental thing, in the end. Kind of what Cahill said.

mandy01
10-13-2009, 01:26 AM
^^ Roger didnt have the back problems at the USO last year...They started during Paris so he dropped out of the tournament :wink:

Blinkism
10-13-2009, 01:29 AM
^^ Roger didnt have the back problems at the USO last year...They started during Paris so he dropped out of the tournament :wink:

Oh, really? I thought he mentioned something about them starting in the American hardcourt season. Maybe my memory is foggy.

Either way, the point is that these minor injuries are something the top players play through.

I think, in Nadal's case, playing through the injury was no longer an option and he felt that it could get worse and quick and that could ruin his chances for the rest of 2009 and potentially longer.

That's when he went to the doctors and the whole dropping-out-of-Wimbledon scene began.

mandy01
10-13-2009, 01:30 AM
^ no..he said they started in Paris which is why he dropped out.

namelessone
10-13-2009, 01:34 AM
Um...he won Canada and the Olympics both on hard courts last year.

He won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Hamburg last year while not injured.
He won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Rome this year while "injured". So tell me, what's changed?

I said fast courts. Only the Olympics were held on fast HC,canada is medium speed. Nadal would have done better in Montreal this year if he had match practice,I'm sure of that but Cincy and USO would have been a tall order without HC weapons. Again,you are misunderstanding. Nadal was not "injured" in those clay tournaments. He was in pain. It only becomes a injury once it becomes very serious or when it sidelines you. As I said before it's a cumulative effect when it comes to playing with pain. You'll get through 1,2,3 tournaments,maybe even a fourth or a fifth but the pain will get you in the end and as Nadal has tendinitis in both knees that can't have been good.

Regardless of injury or not:

2008:
Nadal had a good clay tournaments roundup,he won 3 of them and the only injury he picked up was the blisters thing in Rome versus Fererro. He came into RG healthy and rested(Madrid wasn't in the schedule then as it was HC).
He participated in Wimbledon,won Canada and lost in Cincy and USO in the semi's.

2009:
Nadal had a good clay tournaments roundup,winning 3 but playing the fourth way too close to RG after playing for about a month with pain in his knees. He comes into RG not at his best physically,withdraws from queens,wimbledon and DC(all having friendly surfaces for the body). He gets beaten in Montreal,makes Cincy semi and USO semi.

Nadal has basically almost the same results in 2008 and 2009 but overplays while having pain in the clay season(or should I say he didn't pick his tournaments properly,he didn't take breaks between tournaments) in 2009 and pays the price for it in RG,queens,WB and partially Montreal(he didn't have enough match practice in this tournament). In 2008 his playing style caused him to faulter physically around USO(in the murray match he was leaning on his racket quite a few times and look tired even though that match was played over 2 days and Nadal had time to rest) and by Paris the tendinitis set in and he missed the rest of Paris Masters,TMC and Davis Cup final.

SerbWhoLovesDelPo
10-13-2009, 01:35 AM
Um...he won Canada and the Olympics both on hard courts last year.

He won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Hamburg last year while not injured.
He won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, and Rome this year while "injured". So tell me, what's changed?

Last year, he went out in the first round of Rome against Ferrero. So he had a break right in the middle of the claycourt season.

This year, he reached 4 consecutive clay finals. That could have taken some toll.

mandy01
10-13-2009, 01:35 AM
^ I dont get your point..Madrid came in instead of Hamburg and he played Hamburg last year.

SerbWhoLovesDelPo
10-13-2009, 01:40 AM
^ I dont get your point..Madrid came in instead of Hamburg and he played Hamburg last year.

I mean this year he had 4 consecutive finals on CC: MC, Barca, Rome, Madrid

Last year he had finals of MC, Barcelona and Hamburg, but between Barcelona and Hamburg he had a break when he went out in the first round against Ferrero. He had a little time to rest.

In 2009, he had 4 more CC matches before RG.

namelessone
10-13-2009, 01:41 AM
^ I dont get your point..Madrid came in instead of Hamburg and he played Hamburg last year.

My point was that he didn't play through pain last year in that 3 consecutive run,this year he did and he should have either skipped the 4th(Madrid) or one of those 3. He should have played something like MC-break-Rome-break-Madrid-break-RG. He would have given himself a better chance at RG.

mandy01
10-13-2009, 01:47 AM
My point was that he didn't play through pain last year in that 3 consecutive run,this year he did and he should have either skipped the 4th(Madrid) or one of those 3. He should have played something like MC-break-Rome-break-Madrid-break-RG. He would have given himself a better chance at RG. possibly.I cannot disagree with that.

big bang
10-13-2009, 02:41 AM
it seems like only few people understand this?? namelessone great posts, couldnt have said better myself.

all this BS with suspension for doping is just too idiotic, it would be the same if I said Fed was juiced and never had mono but was suspended! clearly you guys cant see through your hate, pathetic..

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 02:52 AM
Nadal has basically almost the same results in 2008 and 2009 ....
Exactly! That's my point. The fact that he was "injured" in 2009 but not in 2008 didn't really make any difference in his results. No one can claim that he won or lost a match because he was injured or not injured. He'll lose a match when he gets outplayed. It has nothing to do with his pain, since he has proven that he can win just fine even with pain.

namelessone
10-13-2009, 03:10 AM
Exactly! That's my point. The fact that he was "injured" in 2009 but not in 2008 didn't really make any difference in his results. No one can claim that he won or lost a match because he was injured or not injured. He'll lose a match when he gets outplayed. It has nothing to do with his pain, since he has proven that he can win just fine even with pain.

Nice job of ignoring the rest of my post.

Nadal of 2008 plays through the clay events leading up to RG without pain(that we know of),the only problem being some blisters in Rome when he lost to JCF. He came in RG feeling good physically. Nadal peaked in 2008 RG.
Nadal of 2009 played through all the clay events with pain(since MC) and came in RG not at his best physically. Nadal didn't peak in 2009 RG,in fact it was his worst showing out of all the clay events this year,not just by result but by gameplay.

His HC season after WB this year was pretty much the same as 08',the only tournament in which he felt the after effect of injury was Montreal,because he didn't have enough match play. Then he had the same results in Cincy and USO. Why? Nadal repeated the same mistakes but looked physically pretty good(well,at least until the muscle tear),his problems were tactical,just like in the 2008 fast court run.

His results are pretty much the same if we look at the periods before and after the RG-WB double,but the difference is that this year Nadal got injured in the middle of the season(in 2008 he got injured after USO) and it affected the most important part of the season for him. So the events in the middle of the season is what differentiates 2008 and 2009 for Nadal and at least WB failure,if not RG,is caused by this injury. So one cannot say that his results are the same when injury causes him to underperform in his most succesful slams.

drakulie
10-13-2009, 06:18 AM
it seems like only few people understand this?? namelessone great posts, couldnt have said better myself.

all this BS with suspension for doping is just too idiotic, it would be the same if I said Fed was juiced and never had mono but was suspended!

Uhmmm, federer never skipped a grand slam, while he was defending champion, and ranked # 1 in the world.

Federer_pilon
10-13-2009, 08:52 AM
how about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz0qwiy92cs

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/49/dawson_crying.gif

TMF
10-13-2009, 11:08 AM
My point was that he didn't play through pain last year in that 3 consecutive run,this year he did and he should have either skipped the 4th(Madrid) or one of those 3. He should have played something like MC-break-Rome-break-Madrid-break-RG. He would have given himself a better chance at RG.

Whether he skipped Madrid or not doesn’t mean he would of beaten Soderling in Paris. To say he would have a better chance if he skipped tourney just doesn’t cut it. This year is not his year….plain and simple.

He had a marathon match in AO semi., but he played an excellent match in the final. Shouldn’t he be handicapped in the final?

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 12:11 PM
So one cannot say that his results are the same when injury causes him to underperform in his most succesful slams.
Yes, they can. His loss to Soderling had nothing to do with his "injury". He was simply outplayed. Just like he was outplayed by Del Potro at the US Open and by Cilic at Beijing when he wasn't injured.

Cesc Fabregas
10-13-2009, 12:16 PM
Yes, they can. His loss to Soderling had nothing to do with his "injury". He was simply outplayed. Just like he was outplayed by Del Potro at the US Open and by Cilic at Beijing when he wasn't injured.

In the Soderling and Del Potro matches he was definatley injured, he took time off the tour after to recover from the knee and ab injuries.

TMF
10-13-2009, 12:27 PM
In the Soderling and Del Potro matches he was definatley injured, he took time off the tour after to recover from the knee and ab injuries.

After losing to DP in Roger cup and to Nole in Cinci., they were asked about how Nadal was moving on the court. Both DP and Nole said Nadal’s movement was the same. There weren't any indication where he was slowing down.

Nadal lost in Paris b/c his winning streak has to end somehow. You can't win forever, and soderling was a perfect player(tall, heavy hitter) to knock him out.

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 01:17 PM
In the Soderling and Del Potro matches he was definatley injured, he took time off the tour after to recover from the knee and ab injuries.
You forgot to also think of an excuse for his beatdown by Cilic, who crushed him even worse than either Soderling or Del Potro did.

I'm not saying that Nadal was not "injured", all I'm saying is that his record shows that injuries do not affect his results. He's going to win or lose due to being outplayed or not and not due to any "injuries".

Nobody talks about his injuries when he wins (e.g., Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome, getting to finals of Madrid, getting to the 4th round of RG, etc.), but when he loses, all of a sudden it was because he was injured and not because he was simply outplayed. Outplayed - as in what Federer, Soderling, Djokovic, Del Potro, and Cilic did to Nadal.

All-rounder
10-13-2009, 01:51 PM
My point was that he didn't play through pain last year in that 3 consecutive run,this year he did and he should have either skipped the 4th(Madrid) or one of those 3. He should have played something like MC-break-Rome-break-Madrid-break-RG. He would have given himself a better chance at RG.
Exactly nadal is 23 he is a grown man. If he can't decide whether or not he wants to play in a tourney then somebody needs to teach him because its costing him some huge matches. Nadal is the one who needs to make changes not the ATP

Mike Cottrill
10-13-2009, 02:46 PM
serving a "soft suspension".

and BTW, three days after Wimbledon began, he was on a practice court, even though we were all told he would be taking 3 weeks off to due testing, rest, and recovery, because suppsedly, they still didn't know his diagnosis.

Just because you don't agree with my answer, doesn't mean I haven't answered this already several times.

But here you go again, since you seem to have memory loss:

MONEY and Embarassment, not to mention the mess it would make on the record books.



PS: You should really go see someone about this memory loss thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the test results are confidential. However, leaks seem to happen.. So far that has not been the case with Nadal.

zagor
10-13-2009, 03:03 PM
You forgot to also think of an excuse for his beatdown by Cilic, who crushed him even worse than either Soderling or Del Potro did.

I'm not saying that Nadal was not "injured", all I'm saying is that his record shows that injuries do not affect his results. He's going to win or lose due to being outplayed or not and not due to any "injuries".

Nobody talks about his injuries when he wins (e.g., Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome, getting to finals of Madrid, getting to the 4th round of RG, etc.), but when he loses, all of a sudden it was because he was injured and not because he was simply outplayed. Outplayed - as in what Federer, Soderling, Djokovic, Del Potro, and Cilic did to Nadal.

Very well said now apply the same to Federer instead of making a pile of excuses for his every loss as you always do.He gets outplayed as well,not just Nadal.

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 04:57 PM
Very well said now apply the same to Federer instead of making a pile of excuses for his every loss as you always do.He gets outplayed as well,not just Nadal.
Yes, Federer does indeed get outplayed sometimes, like when he allowed Del Potro to outplay him at the US Open by taking him too lightly and playing some stupid shots instead of the ones that have worked for him over 6 matches.

It's like Nadal can outplay Federer by hitting everything to Federer's backhand, like all of his serves and almost all of his groundstrokes. You'll never see Nadal hit all of his serves and groundstrokes to Federer's forehand. What Federer did in the US Open final is equivalent to Nadal hitting everything to Federer's forehand, despite knowing what works against Del Potro.

Karlovic's Sunglasses
10-13-2009, 04:58 PM
The media needs to leave Nadal the hell alone.

jackson vile
10-13-2009, 05:43 PM
Time to put on the tin foil hats again, LOL The ****s are crazy!:shock:

jackson vile
10-13-2009, 05:45 PM
Yes, Federer does indeed get outplayed sometimes, like when he allowed Del Potro to outplay him at the US Open by taking him too lightly and playing some stupid shots instead of the ones that have worked for him over 6 matches.

It's like Nadal can outplay Federer by hitting everything to Federer's backhand, like all of his serves and almost all of his groundstrokes. You'll never see Nadal hit all of his serves and groundstrokes to Federer's forehand. What Federer did in the US Open final is equivalent to Nadal hitting everything to Federer's forehand, despite knowing what works against Del Potro.


You have quite the imagination. Roger allowed Delpo to win LOL

Roger got his @$$ kicked, what lame @$$ excuses

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 05:56 PM
You have quite the imagination. Roger allowed Delpo to win LOL

Roger got his @$$ kicked, what lame @$$ excuses
Yeah, if Nadal hit every shot to Federer's forehand and lost, despite knowing that the way to beat him is to hit everything to Federer's backhand, I would say that Nadal allowed Federer to beat him. Capiche?

jackson vile
10-13-2009, 06:06 PM
Yeah, if Nadal hit every shot to Federer's forehand and lost, despite knowing that the way to beat him is to hit everything to Federer's backhand, I would say that Nadal allowed Federer to beat him. Capiche?

Listen BP Nadal got his @$$ kicked at the FO and Roger got his @$$ kicked at the USO.

There is no excuse, Roger is at fault for being a moron then when play Delpo.

And a lazy SOB when playing Nadal, Roger used to have an amazing backhand. Fact is that Roger got lazy and has paid the price, and only recently relised that he was a fool for not brining up his weakness.


I don't feel sorry for Federer having a weak back hand, when I play and I see a weakness I go for it.

He should put in the time like all the other players to be fully rounded and solid.


Roger is at fault end of story, deal with it.

TheTruth
10-13-2009, 07:07 PM
I've been here for a month, and I already saw that coming from a mile away.

heeheehee:):):)

TheTruth
10-13-2009, 07:09 PM
Can't we all just be fans of tennis and not get caught up in the bitterness? Some of you guys sound like you would go to war over this. "Nad-*****" and "fed-haters" whatever it is, just drop it. Ultimately, our opinions dont matter in the large scope of things. So just stop the hating and enjoy the tennis.

Great post!

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 07:59 PM
Listen BP Nadal got his @$$ kicked at the FO and Roger got his @$$ kicked at the USO.

There is no excuse, Roger is at fault for being a moron then when play Delpo.

And a lazy SOB when playing Nadal, Roger used to have an amazing backhand. Fact is that Roger got lazy and has paid the price, and only recently relised that he was a fool for not brining up his weakness.


I don't feel sorry for Federer having a weak back hand, when I play and I see a weakness I go for it.

He should put in the time like all the other players to be fully rounded and solid.


Roger is at fault end of story, deal with it.
That's exactly what I've been saying! I've been putting his loss to Del Potro as 100% Federer's own fault! He allowed Del Potro to beat him by playing some of the dumbest tennis I have ever witnessed Federer play. He knows exactly how to beat Del Potro. He's done it 6 times before in a row. The last time they played on a hardcourt, Federer beat him 6-3, 6-0, 6-0.

Nadal was just physically outplayed by Soderling, whereas, Federer had a massive brain cramp against Del Potro. Example: Federer kept running around his backhand, and instead of hitting his best shot - the inside-out crosscourt forehand to his opponent's two-handed backhand - he hits inside-in down-the-line forehands right to Del Potro's massive forehand for which DP says - "Thank you very much, Roger" - and pounds the easy crosscourt forehand into the wide open court. This happened over and over again. If that's not a brain cramp, I don't know what is. Either that or Federer had a death wish and wanted to lose.

jamesblakefan#1
10-13-2009, 08:02 PM
That's exactly what I've been saying! I've been putting his loss to Del Potro as 100% Federer's own fault! He allowed Del Potro to beat him by playing some of the dumbest tennis I have ever witnessed Federer play. He knows exactly how to beat Del Potro. He's done it 6 times before in a row. The last time they played on a hardcourt, Federer beat him 6-3, 6-0, 6-0.

Nadal was just physically outplayed by Soderling, whereas, Federer had a massive brain cramp against Del Potro. Example: Federer kept running around his backhand, and instead of hitting his best shot - the inside-out crosscourt forehand to his opponent's two-handed backhand - he hits inside-in down-the-line forehands right to Del Potro's massive forehand for which DP says - "Thank you very much, Roger" - and pounds the easy crosscourt forehand into the wide open court. This happened over and over again. If that's not a brain cramp, I don't know what is. Either that or Federer had a death wish and wanted to lose.

Give zero credit to JMDP for playing excellent tennis, just classy.

crazylevity
10-13-2009, 08:09 PM
I think we all need to learn that no matter what is said on these boards, history only remembers the record books. Whoever won, won. Whoever lost, lost. Whoever missed which tournaments, it will be called DNP.

No one's going to put asterisks next to those achievements.

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 08:22 PM
Give zero credit to JMDP for playing excellent tennis, just classy.

He played no better than the last 3-4 times he played Federer, in fact maybe worse. But this time, he won.

jamesblakefan#1
10-13-2009, 08:35 PM
He played no better than the last 3-4 times he played Federer, in fact maybe worse. But this time, he won.

Bull crap, did you see the match at the French, he had Fed on the ropes and would've beaten him if he didn't run out of gas, the only difference this time was him not running out of gas and rising to the occasion.

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 08:38 PM
Bull crap, did you see the match at the French, he had Fed on the ropes and would've beaten him if he didn't run out of gas, the only difference this time was him not running out of gas and rising to the occasion.
Did you read my post? That's exactly what I said. Del Potro played better at the French Open, but lost. He played worse at the US Open, but won. Why? Because Federer had a brain cramp at the US Open which allowed DP to beat him!

NamRanger
10-13-2009, 08:39 PM
Bull crap, did you see the match at the French, he had Fed on the ropes and would've beaten him if he didn't run out of gas, the only difference this time was him not running out of gas and rising to the occasion.


Del Potro definitely played well within himself. He played at a higher level than Federer, but Federer definitely brain cramped alot. For one, he completely abandoned the net, which was giving him tons of free points. He stopped once Del Potro passed him like twice.

SerbWhoLovesDelPo
10-13-2009, 08:49 PM
Del Potro definitely played well within himself. He played at a higher level than Federer, but Federer definitely brain cramped alot. For one, he completely abandoned the net, which was giving him tons of free points. He stopped once Del Potro passed him like twice.

But he was having less and less success with the net approaches before that.

In the 1st set, Federer was almost 100% with net approaches. In the second, he already dropped to probably about 50%. And then DelPo passed him twice in that crucial game at 5-4 30-30, and after that Federer stuck to baseline.