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View Full Version : Ball In The Middle Who's Ball Is It


larry10s
10-12-2009, 06:10 AM
MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/91757088/Getty-Images-Sport

larry10s
10-12-2009, 06:12 AM
got this pic from another thread ( thanks awebb). thought it was great showing BOTH brothers attacking the ball.

chess9
10-12-2009, 07:42 AM
MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/91757088/Getty-Images-Sport

Knees.

Racquet positions.

Body positions.

Footwork.

Bob Bryan covering deep into Mike's court.

How do you win going down the middle? ;)

-Robert

larry10s
10-12-2009, 08:02 AM
Knees.



How do you win going down the middle? ;)

-Robert

when they clang their racquets together and mis hit the ball:)

LeeD
10-12-2009, 08:42 AM
Better volleyer that side.
Person more forward.
Person who can handle that ball with consistency. Sometimes, forward person has to allow the ball to pass, even thos they can hit it (but weakly, badly, or setup the other team).
A net volley must penetrate past the service line and low, so if you can't hit that volley, you should allow your teammate to hit it.

SuperFly
10-12-2009, 02:48 PM
Of course this would never happen at my school tennis team, 2 men up = lob. Not even an attempt to hit a pass, only a topspin/lob thing that puts constant pressure on the man who's back. That's why I hate doubles :mad:

JavierLW
10-12-2009, 03:08 PM
when they clang their racquets together and mis hit the ball:)

Which doesnt look like it would happen because their not on the same depth "level".

One is a little further back which allows them to both go for it and not have to worry about crashing into each other.

The person coming in should always be watching the ball ready to hit it, and if the closer person has a play on it and sees that they can put it away as well then they should go for it.

naylor
10-12-2009, 04:11 PM
Better volleyer that side.
Person more forward.
Person who can handle that ball with consistency. Sometimes, forward person has to allow the ball to pass, even thos they can hit it (but weakly, badly, or setup the other team).
A net volley must penetrate past the service line and low, so if you can't hit that volley, you should allow your teammate to hit it.

I'd go along with most of that, but I think it also depends from what position/angle the pass is being played.

If the pass will be played from the side (i.e., cross-court, from the singles court line, or even the tramlines or further beyond) then the person at the net on that side also needs to cover the down-the-line, and therefore the middle of the court is best left for the partner. This for me applies particularly when the server plays S&V and goes wide with his serve - it's then the server who's responsible for taking the volley on a return down-the-middle. The only exception to this is if the team at the net both make an obvious positional shift in the direction on the wide ball - hence, the person at the net on that side has physically closed the gap down the tramlines to deny this play to the defending player at the baseline, in which case he can more legitimately share the job of covering the down-the-middle pass.

If the pass is being played straight down the middle (in response to a ball played down the middle by the team at the net), then I would say it's the person at the net who's most forward. And for this purpose, I'd take the view that if the ball is taken by the baseline player on the deuce side, then the person at the net on the ad side is fractionally more forward (closer to the player making the pass) and is responsible for trying to step in positively to narrow some of the (slight) angle and also take the 50-50 ball down the middle.

The key to it all is that both players are used to playing with each other and to working at the net as a team. In this regard, it's important that the players appreciate that doubles is about getting to the net, and that the purpose of "being at the net" is to get a positional advantage to finish/win the point:- you're there to volley, and therefore you need to be ready to volley positively if the ball happens to come somewhere where you might be able to get to with a little bit of form and positional awareness, rather than just passively "filling an empty piece of court" waiting for things to come right at you. Because the fact of the matter is if you just camp there waiting only for things to come at you, it's quite likely you won't be ready to play even those volleys properly (because you have to move to give yourself room to play them).

Sometimes, it can be quite tough - if you are a weak volleyer compared with your partner, the tendency is to leave more balls to him/her on either wing because of their better volleying and greater consistency. The problem is, if you play against a decent doubles team they will pick on that very quickly, and they's start playing closer and closer to you because you're no threat - and your partner will have to take more and more difficult volleys which are yours to take in reality, so he'll miss more and will get more and more frustrated (with you!). Longer term, the only solution is for you to improve your volley, particularly if you want to keep your doubles partner (serious doubles players get quite picky about playing with reasonable doubles players!). Shorter term, try to stay on your toes and try to take at least those volleys that come within easy reach.

LuckyR
10-13-2009, 07:38 AM
got this pic from another thread ( thanks awebb). thought it was great showing BOTH brothers attacking the ball.

I agree that having both players ready to hit the ball is what you want. As to the original question: impossible to answer without knowing where the ball is coming from.

larry10s
10-13-2009, 07:56 AM
I agree that having both players ready to hit the ball is what you want. As to the original question: impossible to answer without knowing where the ball is coming from.

my real intent for the thread was to show how 2 net players are being agressive .going to a ball that could be either one of theirs. some ont the "rules" mentioned above as to whose got first preference are good points. also notice how both brother are loaded on the outside foot ready to come foward and ATTACK the volley. same unit turn and racqet position proportionately(ie righty and llefty)

LuckyR
10-13-2009, 08:53 AM
Good point that even if the "correct" player who should hit the ball, chooses for what ever reason not to, that their partner would be ready to step in and hit it.

blakesq
10-13-2009, 10:07 AM
You think its the other guy's ball, and then you watch it go down the middle between you.

MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/91757088/Getty-Images-Sport

LeeD
10-13-2009, 11:00 AM
You both go for middle balls, and you both leave your alley's wide open....

chess9
10-13-2009, 11:30 AM
You think its the other guy's ball, and then you watch it go down the middle between you.

This is what happens in most NTRP matches. ;)

-Robert

LeeD
10-13-2009, 11:42 AM
Seems at my sad level of 3.5 thru 5.5's, easiest play is actually DTL with heavy spin, either slice or top. You hit it when you saw the netman cheat up the middle, to keep him honest. He mostly aims up the middle lower than your netman, so you just hit your shot and cover middle to chip CC on your shot.
Theory IS down the middle and low, but you usually need 3 passing shots to win the point. DTL is all or nothing, so it allows the point to end quicker. THEN, when they start to stay home, you go low up the middle.
Ya gotta challenge the netman's ability to handle DTL shots first and foremost.

5263
10-13-2009, 06:51 PM
Ya gotta challenge the netman's ability to handle DTL shots first and foremost.

Hey Lee,
why not challenge the middle first? Less risk for you while you check them out. If they do well on middle balls, than check them on the DTLs and lobs. Why let them force you out there over the higher net and dangerous sideline in the early going?

5263
10-13-2009, 06:55 PM
MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/91757088/Getty-Images-Sport

Deuce Bro looks to have better position to me.

Mick
10-13-2009, 06:57 PM
the one who can hit it with a forehand, assuming they cannot both hit that ball with a forehand (a righty and lefty doubles team)

wyutani
10-13-2009, 07:09 PM
fight for the ball. see who gets it first.

J011yroger
10-13-2009, 07:30 PM
Hey Lee,
why not challenge the middle first? Less risk for you while you check them out. If they do well on middle balls, than check them on the DTLs and lobs. Why let them force you out there over the higher net and dangerous sideline in the early going?

Wait...logic?

J

maverick66
10-13-2009, 07:35 PM
Seems at my sad level of 3.5 thru 5.5's, easiest play is actually DTL with heavy spin, either slice or top. You hit it when you saw the netman cheat up the middle, to keep him honest. He mostly aims up the middle lower than your netman, so you just hit your shot and cover middle to chip CC on your shot.
Theory IS down the middle and low, but you usually need 3 passing shots to win the point. DTL is all or nothing, so it allows the point to end quicker. THEN, when they start to stay home, you go low up the middle.
Ya gotta challenge the netman's ability to handle DTL shots first and foremost.


Easiest play is down the middle or crosscourt. hitting DTL is a massive failure if the guy doesnt get caught and at a low level I doubt guys are poaching hard. Down the middle opens it up and creates openings DTL opens you up to many angles from the net player. On top of that its a low percentage shot. Crosscourt or middle gives you a big margin of error dtl gives you a very small target to aim for.

Djokovicfan4life
10-14-2009, 01:28 AM
Wait...logic?

J

That's not gonna go over well on TW.

fuzz nation
10-14-2009, 07:28 AM
A sharp doubles team will have both players setting up to hit every ball that comes at them, much like the picture (thanks for sharing). After all, there's no time to set up and execute a good volley after you've figured out that the ball is on its way to you, especially as the action gets faster, right?

If I'm in a situation like what's happening in the picture, I'll call "ME!" as I move to make my shot. That way, I'm decisively telling my partner what's happening with one quick syllable. Racquets will clack together here and there, but usually the player that's slightly closer to the net will have a natural right of way to the ball. This might be a matter of being only a half a step closer in.

I like to clear up those communication cues before I start with a new partner and I also like to clear up the issue of the backhand vs. the forehand volley on a ball up the middle. A partner and I may just decide to deal with most balls up the middle with the forehand volley, then we can adjust from there. If the partner wants to poach with a backhand volley from a strong position closer to the net, that player's partner will see it coming and should even know enough to cover the open side if the backhand volleyer crosses with an attacking poach.

Can't say too much about what the Bryans should do in that picture just because I can't see the flight path of the ball or where their opponents are set up across the net. Those two variables could demand a couple of different shots from either one of the brothers, but they're obviously both ready to pull the trigger - that's their standard operating procedure.

LeeD
10-14-2009, 08:27 AM
I DID say the prevailing theory is "hit low up the middle"....
Doesn't work for me, because being a lefty, I hit lots of shots DTL normally, so have that as a better option than my CC's.
And being lefty, I hit with extreme spins, both topspins or extreme slices, so it's not an easy ball to volley well.
And surprisingly, most of my fellow 3.5-4.5's hit really good DTL's, higher net and shorter court be damned.
Poaching is HUGE at my level, but pure net putaways not quite so easy if you know where they're always aiming. And I hard sliced ball is REALLY hard to volley well.