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View Full Version : Wow, this Chinese guy Mao-Xin Gong can really play!


BreakPoint
10-12-2009, 10:04 PM
I just watched the Chinese wildcard Gong play Safin in the 1st round of the Shanghai Masters and he was quite impressive for a guy that's ranked #541 and has only played futures events before (almost all in China). This was his first ever ATP tour match and he gave Safin a run for his money. He pretty much went toe-to-toe with Safin throughout the match and Safin only won with one break in each set. Before the match, I thought Safin (a former #1, two-time Grand Slam champion, and full of natural talent) would steamroll over this poor guy that nobody's ever heard of (kind of like what Cilic did to Nadal a few days ago ;-) ), but surprisingly he was very competitive with Safin and could have won this match if he didn't hit so many double-faults on break points.

For a small guy, he has good pace on his serve, hits a pretty big forehand, and has a very good one-handed backhand. He was keeping up with Safin on groundstroke rallies despite Safin's firepower off the ground. I think if this guy can put it all together and develop his game a bit more, we could see him playing in the main draw of Slams one day. (BTW, another Chinese wildcard, Shao-Xuan Zeng, won his 1st round match over Dudi Sela and they said he's the first Chinese man to ever win an ATP tour match in history. :shock: I know I've never seen a Chinese guy play in an ATP tour event before, only in the futures.)

mdjenders
10-12-2009, 10:06 PM
he did hit some flashy shots, however i think his footwork and consistency are going to be a big barrier to move throught the futures/challenger type grinders. his results to date seem to bear this out.

MajinX
10-12-2009, 10:22 PM
wow first chinese man to win a atp match? i guess they meant nationality wise... coz isnt chang chinese?

BreakPoint
10-12-2009, 10:28 PM
wow first chinese man to win a atp match? i guess they meant nationality wise... coz isnt chang chinese?
No. Chang is an American. That's why he was on the U.S.A. Davis Cup team and not on China's Davis Cup team. :)

longst
10-12-2009, 10:28 PM
wow first chinese man to win a atp match? i guess they meant nationality wise... coz isnt chang chinese?

RIght Chang is Chinese American. This other guy was Chinese.

Baikalic
10-12-2009, 10:33 PM
I just watched the Chinese wildcard Gong play Safin in the 1st round of the Shanghai Masters and he was quite impressive for a guy that's ranked #541 and has only played futures events before (almost all in China). This was his first ever ATP tour match and he gave Safin a run for his money. He pretty much went toe-to-toe with Safin throughout the match and Safin only won with one break in each set. Before the match, I thought Safin (a former #1, two-time Grand Slam champion, and full of natural talent) would steamroll over this poor guy that nobody's ever heard of (kind of like what Cilic did to Nadal a few days ago ;-) ), but surprisingly he was very competitive with Safin and could have won this match if he didn't hit so many double-faults on break points.

For a small guy, he has good pace on his serve, hits a pretty big forehand, and has a very good one-handed backhand. He was keeping up with Safin on groundstroke rallies despite Safin's firepower off the ground. I think if this guy can put it all together and develop his game a bit more, we could see him playing in the main draw of Slams one day. (BTW, another Chinese wildcard, Shao-Xuan Zeng, won his 1st round match over Dudi Sela and they said he's the first Chinese man to ever win an ATP tour match in history. :shock: I know I've never seen a Chinese guy play in an ATP tour event before, only in the futures.)

How old is he? Young gun?

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 10:35 PM
This guy isn't the first Chinese man to win an ATP match, he is the first man from the People's Republic of China to win a match - Lu is from Taiwan which is also China (Democratic Republic of China) but not controlled by the Beijing government.

Just technicalities and politics, though.

Good stuff and good luck for Zeng and Mao-Xin Gong!!

BreakPoint
10-12-2009, 10:37 PM
RIght Chang is Chinese American. This other guy was Chinese.
Chang was born and grew up in the U.S., and started playing and developed his tennis game in the U.S. He has nothing in common with a guy who was born and grew up in China from a tennis development standpoint. Chang grew up playing against guys like Sampras, Agassi, and Courier as a junior and had world-class coaching.

Chang is as much Chinese as Sampras is Greek.

BreakPoint
10-12-2009, 10:43 PM
This guy isn't the first Chinese man to win an ATP match, he is the first man from the People's Republic of China to win a match - Lu is from Taiwan which is also China (Democratic Republic of China) but not controlled by the Beijing government.

Just technicalities and politics, though.

Good stuff and good luck for Zeng and Mao-Xin Gong!!
When they say "Chinese man", they mean a man from China. Just like when they say Na Li is the first Chinese to get into the Top 20, they mean the first person from China.

Lu is from Taiwan so they would refer to him as "Taiwanese" in the same vein.

BTW, Americans are no longer allowed to refer to Taiwan as the "Republic of China" as it offends the Chinese. It's now referred to as "Chinese Taipei". In fact, that's what all the commentators refer players from Taiwan as. They don't even use the word "Taiwan" anymore. I know, it's stupid.

BreakPoint
10-12-2009, 10:44 PM
How old is he? Young gun?
He just turned 22.

Baikalic
10-12-2009, 10:46 PM
When they say "Chinese man", they mean a man from China. Just like when they say Na Li is the first Chinese to get into the Top 20, they mean the first person from China.

Lu is from Taiwan so they would refer to him as "Taiwanese" in the same vein.

BTW, Americans are no longer allowed to refer to Taiwan as the "Republic of China" as it offends the Chinese. It's now referred to as "Chinese Taipei". In fact, that's what all the commentators refer players from Taiwan as. They don't even use the word "Taiwan" anymore. I know, it's stupid.

The Chinese get offended at everything that besmirches their golden legacy. Oh yeah, I agree it's stupid.

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 10:47 PM
When they say "Chinese man", they mean a man from China. Just like when they say Na Li is the first Chinese to get into the Top 20, they mean the first person from China.

Lu is from Taiwan so they would refer to him as "Taiwanese" in the same vein.

BTW, Americans are no longer allowed to refer to Taiwan as the "Republic of China" as it offends the Chinese. It's now referred to as "Chinese Taipei". In fact, that's what all the commentators refer players from Taiwan as. They don't even use the word "Taiwan" anymore. I know, it's stupid.

I was just being a smart-***, BreakPoint.

Interesting fact about Taiwan, though. It's not like that in Canada, as such. We still call it Republic of China, but Taiwan is the going term in casual conversation. The political situation is beyond me, though, so I don't know what the politically correct/incorrect way to say Taiwan is!

On another note, it makes you ponder why there aren't many players coming out of East Asia and breaking into the Top 100.

And, from what I've heard (atleast in China) Tennis is quite popular in that part of the world.

BreakPoint
10-12-2009, 10:54 PM
I was just being a smart-***, BreakPoint.

Interesting fact about Taiwan, though. It's not like that in Canada, as such. We still call it Republic of China, but Taiwan is the going term in casual conversation. The political situation is beyond me, though, so I don't know what the politically correct/incorrect way to say Taiwan is!

On another note, it makes you ponder why there aren't many players coming out of East Asia and breaking into the Top 100.

And, from what I've heard (atleast in China) Tennis is quite popular in that part of the world.
Well, you would think that more top pros would have come out of Japan by now since tennis has been very popular in Japan for over a century. In fact, some of the best players in the world back in the 1920's were from Japan.

I think with the Beijing Olympics, the ATP Master's Cup in Shanghai over the past few years, The China Open, and now an ATP Master's Series event in Shanghai, tennis will continue to gain in popularity in China, so maybe some of the best athletes will begin to take up tennis from an early age?

BTW, I think "Chinese Taipei" is a stupid name for a country. I mean naming the whole country after the name of just a city? How silly!

Blinkism
10-12-2009, 10:58 PM
Well, you would think that more top pros would have come out of Japan by now since tennis has been very popular in Japan for over a century. In fact, some of the best players in the world back in the 1920's were from Japan.

I think with the Beijing Olympics, the ATP Master's Cup in Shanghai over the past few years, The China Open, and now an ATP Master's Series event in Shanghai, tennis will continue to gain in popularity in China, so maybe some of the best athletes will begin to take up tennis from an early age?

BTW, I think "Chinese Taipei" is a stupid name for a country. I mean naming the whole country after the name of just a city? How silly!

Yeah, I think there's a few guys from Japan on the Wimbledon's Champions list.

And I agree about the influx of ATP tournaments in Asia being behind a potential boom in the popularity of tennis in Asia. But LOL @ the Australian Open being referred to as the "Grand Slam of Asia and the Pacific" or something to that effect, by its' organizers!

bojsag
10-12-2009, 10:58 PM
Not to belittle Shao-Xuan Zeng in any way. Dudi Sela is by far the most worthless ATP ranked player in history of tennis. A win over Donald Young would have been more impressive for Shao-Xuan Zeng.

Golden Retriever
10-12-2009, 11:05 PM
Why every article, discuss, thread etc from Westerners on China will always end up talking about Taiwan, Tibet, June 4th and democracy?

By the way, are you sure it is Chinese, Taipei and not China, Taiwan?

BreakPoint
10-12-2009, 11:13 PM
Not to belittle Shao-Xuan Zeng in any way. Dudi Sela is by far the most worthless ATP ranked player in history of tennis. A win over Donald Young would have been more impressive for Shao-Xuan Zeng.
Why do you say that? You're not anti-Semitic or anything, are you?

Sela did get to the 4th round of Wimbledon this year and got to the finals of the China Open last year, losing to Roddick in the final in 3 sets, and also won both of his Davis Cup matches against Sweden both in tough 5-setters. He also has a great one-handed backhand. :)

nfor304
10-13-2009, 12:40 AM
Yeah, I think there's a few guys from Japan on the Wimbledon's Champions list.

And I agree about the influx of ATP tournaments in Asia being behind a potential boom in the popularity of tennis in Asia. But LOL @ the Australian Open being referred to as the "Grand Slam of Asia and the Pacific" or something to that effect, by its' organizers!

They're clearly just pandering to asian audiences to try and boost ratings in the region.

bojsag
10-13-2009, 12:46 AM
Why do you say that? You're not anti-Semitic or anything, are you?

Sela did get to the 4th round of Wimbledon this year and got to the finals of the China Open last year, losing to Roddick in the final in 3 sets, and also won both of his Davis Cup matches against Sweden both in tough 5-setters. He also has a great one-handed backhand. :)

Dudi Sela is the biggest running joke on the tour. His fluke 4R run at Wimbledon this year is a bigger joke than Soderling making slam final at FO. Sela has no weapons, his backhand is even weaker than his weak forehand, he has no serve or net play at all. His only chance is to play on grass and hope the opponent slips. Put him on HC and Sela folds like a beach chair every time against even players like Roddick or any Chinese qualifier/wildcard.

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 01:05 AM
Dudi Sela is the biggest running joke on the tour. His fluke 4R run at Wimbledon this year is a bigger joke than Soderling making slam final at FO. Sela has no weapons, his backhand is even weaker than his weak forehand, he has no serve or net play at all. His only chance is to play on grass and hope the opponent slips. Put him on HC and Sela folds like a beach chair every time against even players like Roddick or any Chinese qualifier/wildcard.
Um...OK. If you played Sela, my money would be on Sela to win. If you were smart, you'd bet on him to win, too. :)

bojsag
10-13-2009, 01:22 AM
Um...OK. If you played Sela, my money would be on Sela to win. If you were smart, you'd bet on him to win, too. :)

Sela was the biggest cheat in the juniors. Years later and millions of dirty federation support money later Sela is still the biggest cheat, and the most overrated player to win ATP point in history of tennis. No comparison to honest people who never cheated or had silver spoons stuck up their asses to break through the circuit. Your point is moot.

DragonBlaze
10-13-2009, 04:03 AM
Why do you say that? You're not anti-Semitic or anything, are you?

Sela did get to the 4th round of Wimbledon this year and got to the finals of the China Open last year, losing to Roddick in the final in 3 sets, and also won both of his Davis Cup matches against Sweden both in tough 5-setters. He also has a great one-handed backhand. :)

P_Agony loves Sela. gj011 hated P_Agony (for whatever reason).

lawrence
10-13-2009, 04:06 AM
hopefully this guy breaks through and sparks interest within china
that place may be absolutely huge and densely populated, but you also have to remember the majority of those people are living in poor conditions

i dont mean poor as in 3rd world poor, but poor in the sense that tennis training costs a **** ton of money

Gorecki
10-13-2009, 07:37 AM
I was just being a smart-***

dont... just dont... or you will become a ****** to Mr. Gorecki and you will consequently meet his wrath....
:)

ps: btw.. is butsac banned already?

goober
10-13-2009, 09:39 AM
hopefully this guy breaks through and sparks interest within china
that place may be absolutely huge and densely populated, but you also have to remember the majority of those people are living in poor conditions


Yes hopefully they will spark interest so that more than 50 people are in the stands of a huge stadium for a masters level event.

Blinkism
10-13-2009, 09:49 AM
dont... just dont... or you will become a ****** to Mr. Gorecki and you will consequently meet his wrath....
:)

haha, I wouldn't want you stalking and trolling me, gorecki! I don't think I could handle it

Especially when I've already got a fanboy stalker after me in Drakulie :shock:

ps: btw.. is butsac banned already?

For now

:)

GasquetGOAT
10-13-2009, 10:57 AM
Yes hopefully they will spark interest so that more than 50 people are in the stands of a huge stadium for a masters level event.

and maybe if they lower the ticket price would help as well...Last year they were saying the organisers actually had to give out hundreds of tickets to some schools so they could "fill" the stadium a little more!lol... what waste of a such good event...

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-13-2009, 10:59 AM
Its a cool thing that the Chinese (and Asian) players are coming along, the ladies are very succesful and have been on the big stage for a while now, and China has had a lot of Western coaches since the mid 90`s and the potential there should be HUGE !

Gorecki
10-13-2009, 11:01 AM
haha, I wouldn't want you stalking and trolling me, gorecki! I don't think I could handle it

Especially when I've already got a fanboy stalker after me in Drakulie :shock:



For now

:)


have no doubts that i would crush you with supremely refined trolishness and stalking... :)

GasquetGOAT
10-13-2009, 11:04 AM
Its a cool thing that the Chinese (and Asian) players are coming along, the ladies are very succesful and have been on the big stage for a while now, and China has had a lot of Western coaches since the mid 90`s and the potential there should be HUGE !

I agree. Imagine if there are a few Michael Changs on tour right now but like bigger and taller (ie. Schrichapan), the clay season would be much more fun...

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-13-2009, 11:08 AM
I agree. Imagine if there are a few Michael Changs on tour right now but like bigger and taller (ie. Schrichapan), the clay season would be much more fun...
Absolutely, my prediction is by 2013-2014 there will be at least 10 Asian players on the ATP-tour top 100
The world junior boy no1 is from Taiwan, insanely talented kid.

ubermeyer
10-13-2009, 05:54 PM
Not to belittle Shao-Xuan Zeng in any way. Dudi Sela is by far the most worthless ATP ranked player in history of tennis. A win over Donald Young would have been more impressive for Shao-Xuan Zeng.

Incontrovertible proof that bojsag was indeed gj011 right here, folks.

flyinghippos101
10-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Don't forget, he had the home-court advantage. Expect everyone to be cheering for the local over the foreigner

crazylevity
10-13-2009, 06:21 PM
^^ not really. From what I've seen in Beijing and Shanghai, they're pretty Safin-crazy over there. Plus, he's on his retirement tour.

MichaelChang
10-13-2009, 06:38 PM
Let me tell you something about China's men's tennis. Because I was born there and I lived there 20 something years until some years ago when I left. about 10 years ago, China's top man ranks about 500 in the ATP. Today, the same. Zeng is the top gun right now and ranks what? somewhere 400 or 500s?

China's men's tennis hasn't really made any breakthrough. What is the problem? I have spoken and hit with a top junior in China (runner up of China's national Junior tour, at age or 16). He told me as a junior, he can hang with any junior from the world. But when then fully grow up, Chinese men just does not have the same level of match experience and coaching to keep up with the rest of the tour. China does not lack of enthourism in tennis, they have tons of kids playing and huge population ground. Its women's tennis is already making great breakthrough, its got about 3-4 players in the top 50 in WTA. But for men's tennis to break from top 500 to top 100, they need to send their good juniors to US or Europe to train and play matches there. Well, that surely cost money, and considering China as a socialism country, and tennis being a personal sport, that is why China has not sent their "country-developed" juniors to fully develop their game in any foreign country. Sad.

Ambivalent
10-13-2009, 07:26 PM
Let me tell you something about China's men's tennis. Because I was born there and I lived there 20 something years until some years ago when I left. about 10 years ago, China's top man ranks about 500 in the ATP. Today, the same. Zeng is the top gun right now and ranks what? somewhere 400 or 500s?

China's men's tennis hasn't really made any breakthrough. What is the problem? I have spoken and hit with a top junior in China (runner up of China's national Junior tour, at age or 16). He told me as a junior, he can hang with any junior from the world. But when then fully grow up, Chinese men just does not have the same level of match experience and coaching to keep up with the rest of the tour. China does not lack of enthourism in tennis, they have tons of kids playing and huge population ground. Its women's tennis is already making great breakthrough, its got about 3-4 players in the top 50 in WTA. But for men's tennis to break from top 500 to top 100, they need to send their good juniors to US or Europe to train and play matches there. Well, that surely cost money, and considering China as a socialism country, and tennis being a personal sport, that is why China has not sent their "country-developed" juniors to fully develop their game in any foreign country. Sad.

Chinese socialism has nothing to do with the fact that Chinese men are not being sent to other countries to train. You have no idea what you're talking about.

BreakPoint
10-13-2009, 08:15 PM
Don't forget, he had the home-court advantage. Expect everyone to be cheering for the local over the foreigner
Not really. The Shanghai tournament isn't even giving any of its own players any love. The other Chinese player, Zeng, is playing his 2nd round match today against Tsonga, and not only did they not schedule him for the prime-time night match, they didn't even put him on the main stadium court!

Now look at how often Americans Roddick and Blake get to play the night matches on Arthur Ashe stadium at the US Open.

BTW, there haven't been many spectators at all in any of the matches so far. The stands have been pretty empty.

JeMar
10-13-2009, 08:25 PM
Career second-rounder.

JHBKLYN
10-13-2009, 08:42 PM
Well, that surely cost money, and considering China as a socialism country, and tennis being a personal sport, that is why China has not sent their "country-developed" juniors to fully develop their game in any foreign country. Sad.

Probably don't want them to defect!

35ft6
10-13-2009, 10:05 PM
Its a cool thing that the Chinese (and Asian) players are coming along, the ladies are very succesful and have been on the big stage for a while now, and China has had a lot of Western coaches since the mid 90`s and the potential there should be HUGE !They probably will, but they should teach them on clay. When I used to go to the US Open qualies every year I would see a lot of Japanese guys in the tournament and they all sort of had the same strokes. Compact flat shots. Kind of like Kimiko Date but not as extreme Yeah, they weren't super huge, but I saw smaller guys from South America and parts of Europe the same size with way more power and I think it's because of the way they were taught. Not saying China is like Japan, and out of a gene pool of a billion I'm sure some really big guys with athletic ability will emerge, but in the meanwhile, they should teach them some modern strokes. Coria isn't huge either but he was crushing the ball compared to the Japanese guys of similar build.

When I saw Nishikori play, after about 5 minutes I said "he doesn't look like he trained in Japan... his strokes look more modern..." Went home, looked him up and sure enough he trained at IMG academies. I doubt the Chinese will allow their most talented kids develop in Spain or Florida where they can face top competition every day.

onehandbh
10-14-2009, 03:37 AM
Wrong. Taiwan is not part of China. It's been a separate country for
some time now.

Brief historical timeline:

http://www004.upp.so-net.ne.jp/teikoku-denmo/english/history/taiwan.html


This guy isn't the first Chinese man to win an ATP match, he is the first man from the People's Republic of China to win a match - Lu is from Taiwan which is also China (Democratic Republic of China) but not controlled by the Beijing government.

Just technicalities and politics, though.

Good stuff and good luck for Zeng and Mao-Xin Gong!!

Shangri La
10-14-2009, 11:54 AM
Wrong. Taiwan is not part of China. It's been a separate country for
some time now.

Brief historical timeline:

http://www004.upp.so-net.ne.jp/teikoku-denmo/english/history/taiwan.html

Wrong.

Taiwan has never been a country.

Show me where Taiwan is
http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml

Tell UN that 'history'. lol

lenderbender
10-14-2009, 01:51 PM
Taiwan isnt in the UN because when it applied, China didnt like it so they couldnt approve. This was when Taiwan was run by the old anti China political party. I THINK

lenderbender
10-14-2009, 01:52 PM
Taiwan isnt in the UN because when it applied, China didnt like it so they couldnt approve. This was when Taiwan was run by the old anti China political party. I THINK

edit: random quote 'Some international observers argue that we should not raise the Taiwan issue, saying that Taiwan's entry into the UN is impossible because China has a permanent seat in the Security Council and will block any attempt to let Taiwan join the UN.'

BreakPoint
10-14-2009, 02:52 PM
Wrong.

Taiwan has never been a country.

Show me where Taiwan is
http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml

Tell UN that 'history'. lol
Wrong. Taiwan is a separate country as it has its own independently elected government. How many things have you ever purchased that say "Made in Taiwan" on it? If it wasn't a country, it couldn't say that.

Taiwan (Republic of China) was a founding member of the United Nations and a permanent member of the Security Council from 1945 to 1971.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations

Shangri La
10-14-2009, 03:53 PM
Wrong. Taiwan is a separate country as it has its own independently elected government. How many things have you ever purchased that say "Made in Taiwan" on it? If it wasn't a country, it couldn't say that.

Taiwan (Republic of China) was a founding member of the United Nations and a permanent member of the Security Council from 1945 to 1971.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations

"...a permanent member of the Security Council from 1945 to 1971..." how is it 'permanent' when it's already ended??

And apparently your government disagrees with you. The US government doesnt think Taiwan is a separate 'country' and doesn't have official relations with it. US also refrains from using the obsolete term 'ROC':

http://www.usembassy.gov/

*The U.S. maintains unofficial relations with the people on Taiwan through the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT), a private nonprofit corporation, which performs citizen and consular services similar to those at diplomatic posts. See AIT's website www.ait.org.tw/en/ for details.

BreakPoint
10-14-2009, 05:15 PM
"...a permanent member of the Security Council from 1945 to 1971..." how is it 'permanent' when it's already ended??

And apparently your government disagrees with you. The US government doesnt think Taiwan is a separate 'country' and doesn't have official relations with it. US also refrains from using the obsolete term 'ROC':

http://www.usembassy.gov/

*The U.S. maintains unofficial relations with the people on Taiwan through the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT), a private nonprofit corporation, which performs citizen and consular services similar to those at diplomatic posts. See AIT's website www.ait.org.tw/en/ (http://www.ait.org.tw/en/) for details.
Hello? It was China that forced Taiwan out of the UN and forces the U.S. not to have official diplomatic relations with Taiwan. If China did not exist, Taiwan would still be in the UN and would still have official diplomatic ties to the U.S.

The U.S. knows Taiwan is a separate country. That's why we import so many products from Taiwan and have extensive trade and commerce with Taiwan. We just can't officially say so in front of the Chinese. They are very touchy over this subject.

Oh, and if the U.S. has no relations at all with Taiwan, why is it that the U.S. will go to war to protect Taiwan if China ever invaded the island?

Shangri La
10-14-2009, 05:41 PM
Hello? It was China that forced Taiwan out of the UN and forces the U.S. not to have official diplomatic relations with Taiwan. If China did not exist, Taiwan would still be in the UN and would still have official diplomatic ties to the U.S.



China 'forces' the US, lol? When was the US ever 'forced' by anyone? From what I heard the US only does the right things and has been among the greatest forces to protect the justice and world peace. Did I get that wrong?


The U.S. knows Taiwan is a separate country. That's why we import so many products from Taiwan and have extensive trade and commerce with Taiwan. We just can't officially say so in front of the Chinese. They are very touchy over this subject.

Oh, and if the U.S. has no relations at all with Taiwan, why is it that the U.S. will go to war to protect Taiwan if China ever invaded the island?


yea... trading sure equals official diplomatic relations, that's why the US government even bothers to state clearly on their website that US maintains unofficial relations with people on Taiwan.

joshburger
10-14-2009, 05:46 PM
video?????

BreakPoint
10-14-2009, 09:57 PM
China 'forces' the US, lol? When was the US ever 'forced' by anyone? From what I heard the US only does the right things and has been among the greatest forces to protect the justice and world peace. Did I get that wrong?
OK, if China doesn't care if the U.S. has diplomatic relations or not with Taiwan, what do you think would happen if the U.S. set up an official embassy in Taipei and officially recognized Taiwan as the Republic of China? China would go ballistic, in more ways than one. Heck, many years ago, the President of Taiwan wanted to drop by Cornell to receive an honorary degree from his alma mater but couldn't because China protested vehemently that any Taiwan official could not step foot on U.S. soil, even though it was a completely non-diplomatic trip, or else the U.S. would face grave consequences.

Do you see the U.S. military coming to the aid of Tibet? Nope. But if China invaded Taiwan, just watch what happens. The U.S. 7th Naval Fleet would be in the Strait of Taiwan in no time and launch a military counter-attack on mainland China. I'd say that counts as "recognizing" the sovereignty of Taiwan.

yea... trading sure equals official diplomatic relations, that's why the US government even bothers to state clearly on their website that US maintains unofficial relations with people on Taiwan.
As I said before, that's because China would have a s**t-fit if the U.S. didn't state that.

How old are you anyway? Learn some history. I remember the day when the UN replaced Taiwan with China on the security council. It was a major international incident with protests from many countries. The fact of the matter is, if China didn't have cheap labor, a huge potential market, and nuclear weapons, the U.S. probably wouldn't even bother with it.

onehandbh
10-14-2009, 10:05 PM
^^^ BP is correct. You're Shangri-wrong.
Taiwan's government doesn't report China and is
completely independent and has been for awhile. It was a military
dictatorship for a bit during the KMT's rule, but it was still completely
independent of China.

Golden Retriever
10-14-2009, 10:06 PM
The fact of the matter is, if China didn't have cheap labor, a huge potential market, and nuclear weapons, the U.S. probably wouldn't even bother with it.

I hope US wouldn't bother with us too. US has "bothered" with a lot of countries with none of the above. In fact US had "bothered" with China when China didn't have any of the above.

You really should be a CNN reporter.

Baikalic
10-14-2009, 10:14 PM
yea... trading sure equals official diplomatic relations, that's why the US government even bothers to state clearly on their website that US maintains unofficial relations with people on Taiwan.

This one fails to understand the concept of 'de facto.'
In any case, the PROC has never controlled Taiwan in its history.

BreakPoint
10-14-2009, 10:20 PM
I hope US wouldn't bother with us too. US has "bothered" with a lot of countries with none of the above. In fact US had "bothered" with China when China didn't have any of the above.

You really should be a CNN reporter.
China has always had cheap labor and a huge potential market. But you didn't see the U.S. doing anything in China from 1949 to 1972, did you?

And thanks to Madam Chiang Kai-shek, the U.S. came to the aid of China during WWII when the Japanese invaded the mainland.

And it's a very good thing for the Chinese that the U.S. "bothers" with China today because who do you think buys most of China's products, making many Chinese rich in the process?

Golden Retriever
10-14-2009, 10:25 PM
But you didn't see the U.S. doing anything in China from 1949 to 1972, did you?



The US almost nuked China during that period, and started the Korean war leading to the death of millions of Chinese.

On second thought, you should be a Fox News Commentator.

wyutani
10-14-2009, 10:30 PM
All chinese plays like that. nothing unusual.

Shangri La
10-14-2009, 10:34 PM
OK, if China doesn't care if the U.S. has diplomatic relations or not with Taiwan, what do you think would happen if the U.S. set up an official embassy in Taipei and officially recognized Taiwan as the Republic of China? China would go ballistic, in more ways than one. Heck, many years ago, the President of Taiwan wanted to drop by Cornell to receive an honorary degree from his alma mater but couldn't because China protested vehemently that any Taiwan official could not step foot on U.S. soil, even though it was a completely non-diplomatic trip, or else the U.S. would face grave consequences.

Do you see the U.S. military coming to the aid of Tibet? Nope. But if China invaded Taiwan, just watch what happens. The U.S. 7th Naval Fleet would be in the Strait of Taiwan in no time and launch a military counter-attack on mainland China. I'd say that counts as "recognizing" the sovereignty of Taiwan.

As I said before, that's because China would have a s**t-fit if the U.S. didn't state that.

How old are you anyway? Learn some history. I remember the day when the UN replaced Taiwan with China on the security council. It was a major international incident with protests from many countries. The fact of the matter is, if China didn't have cheap labor, a huge potential market, and nuclear weapons, the U.S. probably wouldn't even bother with it.

Ok then, we forced you guys, if you insist.

Shangri La
10-14-2009, 10:39 PM
^^^ BP is correct. You're Shangri-wrong.
Taiwan's government doesn't report China and is
completely independent and has been for awhile. It was a military
dictatorship for a bit during the KMT's rule, but it was still completely
independent of China.

Too bad their 'government' or 'independence' is not recognized by any country in the world.

nickarnold2000
10-14-2009, 10:43 PM
I've actually been living in Taiwan for the last 10 years and more and more Taiwanese view themselves(over 70%) as Taiwanese 1st and Chinese 2nd. There are still some of the old guard left; the guys who fought with Chang Kai Shek before 1949 but they're fewer and fewer now.
I wouldn't waste your time arguing with guys like Shangri La about "Taiwan-China". These people get so emotional about the "mother country" that they can't think straight(it's like arguing about religion with some people). As mentioned above, Taiwan does have it's own Congress-President, armed forces, passports and freedom. You can talk about what ever you want here and your right to do so is protected. China???
BTW, tennis is huge here but that #1 junior probably should go to Europe or the States if he wants to realize his full potential on the pro tour.

Golden Retriever
10-14-2009, 10:56 PM
As a Chinese, I really don't care much about Taiwan being part of China or not. Taiwan has no oil, no natural resources so why bother? I think actually the Chinese government doesn't really want Taiwan as much as people think they do. However they don't want Taiwan to go independent neither so the whole thing is gonna be a long grinding stalemate.

Actually a lot of younger Chinese don't really care about Taiwan neither. So I am happy to see a long grinding excruciating stalemate.

lawrence
10-14-2009, 10:59 PM
Absolutely, my prediction is by 2013-2014 there will be at least 10 Asian players on the ATP-tour top 100
The world junior boy no1 is from Taiwan, insanely talented kid.

Whats this guys name? And any vids?

Shangri La
10-14-2009, 11:35 PM
I've actually been living in Taiwan for the last 10 years and more and more Taiwanese view themselves(over 70%) as Taiwanese 1st and Chinese 2nd. There are still some of the old guard left; the guys who fought with Chang Kai Shek before 1949 but they're fewer and fewer now.

Hey, come to Shanghai and talk to the locals. You'll find over 80% view themselves as Shanghainese 1st - does that make Shanghai an independent country?


BTW, tennis is huge here but that #1 junior probably should go to Europe or the States if he wants to realize his full potential on the pro tour.

wait... are you actually talking about tennis on a message board called.... 'talk tennis'?

Baikalic
10-15-2009, 12:07 AM
The US almost nuked China during that period, and started the Korean war leading to the death of millions of Chinese.

On second thought, you should be a Fox News Commentator.

The US did almost nuke China, but the war was started by a North Korean invasion in June 1950, not the US.

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 01:09 AM
The US almost nuked China during that period, and started the Korean war leading to the death of millions of Chinese.

On second thought, you should be a Fox News Commentator.
Is that a joke? The U.S. "started the Koren War"? What are you smoking dude? Yeah, the Koreans and the Chinese backing the North Koreans had nothing to do with it, right? If you knew any history at all, you'd know that it was the North Koreans (backed by Communist China) that invaded South Korea on June 25, 1950 that started the Korean War. Now who starts a war, the invaders or the people being invaded? I guess the Chinese started WWII since the Japanese invaded China, right? :-? :oops:

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 01:18 AM
Too bad their 'government' or 'independence' is not recognized by any country in the world.
Wrong again! Boy, you're on a roll.

Taiwan (Republic of China) is officially recognized as an independent sovereign nation by 23 nations and has official diplomatic relations with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China

And de facto relations are maintained with nearly all other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

Whatever they're teaching you in China is wrong.

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 01:25 AM
Hey, come to Shanghai and talk to the locals. You'll find over 80% view themselves as Shanghainese 1st - does that make Shanghai an independent country?

Does Shanghai issue separate passports for international travel that are different from PRC passports? Only independent countries can issue passports.

Do Shanghainese follow China's laws? Of course. Do people in Taiwan follow China's laws? Not on your life. Independent countries have the ability to create their own national laws.

MichaelChang
10-15-2009, 06:23 AM
Wrong again! Boy, you're on a roll.

Taiwan (Republic of China) is officially recognized as an independent sovereign nation by 23 nations and has official diplomatic relations with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China

And de facto relations are maintained with nearly all other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

Whatever they're teaching you in China is wrong.

You know alot about China? You studied Asia politics in your college? You lived in China for some years?

There are over 150 nations in this world, only 23 consider Taiwan as a independent country, as you said. So, majority rules, the majority of the world does not consider Taiwan as indepdent country.

Does Obama dare to declare Taiwan as a country? When was the last time did any US president say in public that Taiwan is an independent country? some 30 years ago? I tell you this: the US does not have the guts and power to back Taiwan any more. Even Taiwanese themselves are getting smart and not crying out loud to be independent. You think US can win the war against China over the Taiwan territory?

MichaelChang
10-15-2009, 06:27 AM
Chinese socialism has nothing to do with the fact that Chinese men are not being sent to other countries to train. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Just what do you know about China and China's tennis? China being socialsim has everything to do with its men's tennis today. The guys in China are part of the "national team", they live/train together, under the same coach. They live on government paid salary, their match/travel expense are covered by government, and the money they win in touranments are (over 50%) given back to the Chinese government. The only independent players in China are the 4 women in WTA, not the guys.

Shangri La
10-15-2009, 10:40 AM
Wrong again! Boy, you're on a roll.

Taiwan (Republic of China) is officially recognized as an independent sovereign nation by 23 nations and has official diplomatic relations with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China



Here are the 23 nations you speak of. Where are the American brothers??

Africa (4 states)
• Burkina Faso* (1994)
• Gambia* (1995)
• Sγo Tomι and Prνncipe* (1997)
• Swaziland* (1968)

Europe (1 state)
• The Holy See* (Vatican City) (1942)

Oceania (6 states)
• Kiribati (2003)
• Marshall Islands* (1998)
• Nauru (1980–2002, 2005)
• Palau* (1999)
• Solomon Islands* (1983)
• Tuvalu (1979)

Central & South America (12 states)
• Belize* (1989)
• Dominican Republic* (1957)
• El Salvador* (1961)
• Guatemala* (1960)
• Haiti* (1956)
• Honduras* (1965)
• Nicaragua* (1990)
• Panama* (1954)
• Paraguay* (1957)
• Saint Kitts and Nevis* (1983)
• Saint Lucia (1984–1997, 2007)
• Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (1981)

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 01:23 PM
Too bad their 'government' or 'independence' is not recognized by any country in the world.

Here are the 23 nations you speak of. Where are the American brothers??

Africa (4 states)
• Burkina Faso* (1994)
• Gambia* (1995)
• Sγo Tomι and Prνncipe* (1997)
• Swaziland* (1968)

Europe (1 state)
• The Holy See* (Vatican City) (1942)

Oceania (6 states)
• Kiribati (2003)
• Marshall Islands* (1998)
• Nauru (1980–2002, 2005)
• Palau* (1999)
• Solomon Islands* (1983)
• Tuvalu (1979)

Central & South America (12 states)
• Belize* (1989)
• Dominican Republic* (1957)
• El Salvador* (1961)
• Guatemala* (1960)
• Haiti* (1956)
• Honduras* (1965)
• Nicaragua* (1990)
• Panama* (1954)
• Paraguay* (1957)
• Saint Kitts and Nevis* (1983)
• Saint Lucia (1984–1997, 2007)
• Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (1981)

Basic math lesson: 23 > 0

:oops: :oops:

Shangri La
10-15-2009, 01:26 PM
Basic math lesson: 23 > 0

:oops: :oops:

they should follow the American and stop the relations.

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 01:30 PM
Y
Does Obama dare to declare Taiwan as a country? When was the last time did any US president say in public that Taiwan is an independent country? some 30 years ago? I tell you this: the US does not have the guts and power to back Taiwan any more. Even Taiwanese themselves are getting smart and not crying out loud to be independent. You think US can win the war against China over the Taiwan territory?
Which country is the one that has a problem with the U.S. declaring Taiwan as a country - the U.S. or China? Which country would be the one to get upset if that happened - the U.S. or China?

The U.S. can win the war against China without even firing a single shot. Just stop buying all Chinese goods. The Chinese economy would collapse and the country would be thrown into turmoil. So the U.S. doesn't need to beat China since China will beat themselves. You know, like what usually happens in tennis. :)

Shangri La
10-15-2009, 01:38 PM
The U.S. can win the war against China without even firing a single shot. Just stop buying all Chinese goods. The Chinese economy would collapse and the country would be thrown into turmoil. So the U.S. doesn't need to beat China since China will beat themselves. You know, like what usually happens in tennis. :)

The US will certainly do that so China can stop buying US treasuries. Holding over $800 billion and being the biggest foreign US treasuries holder surely bothers American.

defrule
10-15-2009, 02:02 PM
Did you know that Hong Kong have their own passport called the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region passport that enjoys visa-free access to many countries around the world.

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 02:06 PM
The US will certainly do that so China can stop buying US treasuries. Holding over $800 billion and being the biggest foreign US treasuries holder surely bothers American.
You see how smart we Americans are? We let you Chinese work hard and long hours in sweaty factories under poor conditions for very little pay producing products for us rich Americans to buy. We give you our money for your products but then we fool you into giving all those billions of dollars right back to us. So we get all of your products to enjoy AND we get to keep our money to use elsewhere while leaving China holding the bag. Ingenious! :)

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 02:07 PM
Did you know that Hong Kong have their own passport called the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region passport that enjoys visa-free access to many countries around the world.
But does Hong Kong have its own military that will defend Hong Kong from Chinese invasion?

Baikalic
10-15-2009, 02:10 PM
they should follow the American and stop the relations.

You tell them! I am sure they will be clamoring to rescind their recognition at your orders.

...

Oh, and 23 > 0.

defrule
10-15-2009, 02:23 PM
But does Hong Kong have its own military that will defend Hong Kong from Chinese invasion?

It's not a separate country, it's part of China.

Shangri La
10-15-2009, 02:29 PM
You see how smart we Americans are? We let you Chinese work hard and long hours in sweaty factories under poor conditions for very little pay producing products for us rich Americans to buy. We give you our money for your products but then we fool you into giving all those billions of dollars right back to us. So we get all of your products to enjoy AND we get to keep our money to use elsewhere while leaving China holding the bag. Ingenious! :)

Chinese would rather believe most are trustworthy, especially when dealing with the Americans. So I guess yea, Chinese can be easily fooled.

so make sure to keep the Chinese happy, and we'll have more money to spare to save your economy.

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 02:33 PM
It's not a separate country, it's part of China.
Yes, that's my point! Taiwan is not part of China. That's why it has its own military that will defend Taiwan from Chinese invasion. Just like the U.S. has its own military - because we're also not part of China. :)

Shangri La
10-15-2009, 02:35 PM
You tell them! I am sure they will be clamoring to rescind their recognition at your orders.

...

Oh, and 23 > 0.

Can you guys take care of that? Chinese are never as good at ordering other countries as Americans. Just send us the bill when done.

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 02:36 PM
so make sure to keep the Chinese happy, and we'll have more money to spare to save your economy.
We've already spent all of the money that you gave back to us on big American homes for us to enjoy and to raise our own standard of living. Since all of those homes are built on U.S. soil, the only way you can get that money back is to invade the U.S. and take over the whole country - which isn't going to happen. :)

Shangri La
10-15-2009, 03:07 PM
We've already spent all of the money that you gave back to us on big American homes for us to enjoy and to raise our own standard of living. Since all of those homes are built on U.S. soil, the only way you can get that money back is to invade the U.S. and take over the whole country - which isn't going to happen. :)

Sorry, we don't have our army allover the world to 'invade' or 'take over a whole country' - it's just not Chinese style.

NamRanger
10-15-2009, 03:52 PM
The US will certainly do that so China can stop buying US treasuries. Holding over $800 billion and being the biggest foreign US treasuries holder surely bothers American.



The U.S. can certainly survive without China. Of course, the U.S. Economy would take a huge nose dive, but I'm pretty sure the Chinese economy would collapse first. That will never happen anyways though, as both the U.S. and the Chinese Government are far too deep now and are basically on the same boat in an ocean of debt.

BreakPoint
10-15-2009, 03:54 PM
Sorry, we don't have our army allover the world to 'invade' or 'take over a whole country' - it's just not Chinese style.
That's what I mean. Thanks for giving us all that money to buy our big luxurious American homes with 6 bedrooms, 5 bathrooms, gourmet kitchens, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. :)

Toxicmilk
10-15-2009, 08:04 PM
As someone from Taiwan let me just say...
If someone asks me what I am, I'll say American, sure.
If someone asks me if I'm Chinese, I'll say yes.
But someone asks me where I'm from, I'll say Taiwan, as in the COUNTRY Taiwan.



Oh, and I like all you super super china folk saying that you don't care about taiwan, yet continue to argue that Taiwan isn't a country like you own us.

Oh, and Gong played a nice match.

Baikalic
10-15-2009, 11:44 PM
Can you guys take care of that? Chinese are never as good at ordering other countries as Americans. Just send us the bill when done.

No. (10 char)

Golden Retriever
10-16-2009, 08:05 AM
You see how smart we Americans are? We let you Chinese work hard and long hours in sweaty factories under poor conditions for very little pay producing products for us rich Americans to buy. We give you our money for your products but then we fool you into giving all those billions of dollars right back to us. So we get all of your products to enjoy AND we get to keep our money to use elsewhere while leaving China holding the bag. Ingenious! :)

Is that the Fox News party line?

Golden Retriever
10-16-2009, 08:14 AM
As someone from Taiwan let me just say...
If someone asks me what I am, I'll say American, sure.
If someone asks me if I'm Chinese, I'll say yes.
But someone asks me where I'm from, I'll say Taiwan, as in the COUNTRY Taiwan.



Oh, and I like all you super super china folk saying that you don't care about taiwan, yet continue to argue that Taiwan isn't a country like you own us.

Oh, and Gong played a nice match.

Hey, take a stand. Are you also a Japanese too?

penang
10-16-2009, 09:15 AM
I have learned many things about China and Taiwan on this thread. Very educational. Just leave the people of Taiwan alone who loved who they are. They didn't lease the country from anyone's? They built the country from nothing. And China is full of quantity with less quality.

Breakpoint quote:
You see how smart we Americans are? We let you Chinese work hard and long hours in sweaty factories under poor conditions for very little pay producing products for us rich Americans to buy. We give you our money for your products but then we fool you into giving all those billions of dollars right back to us. So we get all of your products to enjoy AND we get to keep our money to use elsewhere while leaving China holding the bag. Ingenious!
__________________

I don't think Americans are smart neither. Got fooled by their President's to invade Iraq with false information. The rich CEO ripped off all the little fella to nothing and exchanged for a short stay in prison. People in China work hard and long hours in sweaty factories under poor conditions for very little pay producing products for us rich Americans to buy. Yes, I was offended by this statement because I work in sweaty factory:) At least those people work hard for their money than the lazy stay home, make babies and sell dopes and collecting food stamps from the Gov.

BreakPoint
10-16-2009, 11:05 AM
Is that the Fox News party line?
Nope, just the ugly truth. We're playing you like violins and you don't even realize it. No wonder so many Chinese people want to leave China and live in the U.S. :)

stanfordtennis alum
10-16-2009, 11:10 AM
not surprised.. men's tennis is pretty deep at the moment

Shangri La
10-16-2009, 11:46 AM
Nope, just the ugly truth. We're playing you like violins and you don't even realize it. No wonder so many Chinese people want to leave China and live in the U.S. :)

Fool yourself more. Don't you love how your hard-earned tax dollars are burnt in Iraq while you have to keep begging us Chinese for some coins so you may get to keep your house and not have to live on the streets tomorrow? Now THAT's how you American tax payers are getting played, by your very own government :oops:.

OJ ROD
10-16-2009, 01:06 PM
The Chinese get offended at everything that besmirches their golden legacy. Oh yeah, I agree it's stupid.

Because they are proud of it and stand strong to defend it and improve on it. Unlike americans which have totally abandoned it.

sureshs
10-16-2009, 01:49 PM
That's what I mean. Thanks for giving us all that money to buy our big luxurious American homes with 6 bedrooms, 5 bathrooms, gourmet kitchens, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. :)

You are a rich guy, aren't you?

Shangri La
10-16-2009, 02:01 PM
The Chinese get offended at everything that besmirches their golden legacy. Oh yeah, I agree it's stupid.

Who wouldn't?? Anyone would get offended at everything that besmirches their legacy. Would you feel offended if I sullied your culture/legacy/history?

And why would any reasonable person purposely besmirch others legacy? Now that's stupid to say the least.

sureshs
10-16-2009, 02:13 PM
Stick to the thread topic

Shangri La
10-16-2009, 02:22 PM
Stick to the thread topic

Is it 15>6 or 13>7?

Or its all about Del Potro now?

IvanAndreevich
10-16-2009, 02:30 PM
Nope, just the ugly truth. We're playing you like violins and you don't even realize it. No wonder so many Chinese people want to leave China and live in the U.S. :)

"We"? Why not just speak for yourself?

Oh, and by the way. I don't think you have a sufficient understanding of economic theory in general.

BreakPoint
10-16-2009, 03:04 PM
Fool yourself more. Don't you love how your hard-earned tax dollars are burnt in Iraq while you have to keep begging us Chinese for some coins so you may get to keep your house and not have to live on the streets tomorrow? Now THAT's how you American tax payers are getting played, by your very own government :oops:.
Well, isn't the joke on you? You're giving us the money to maintain our high standards of living while you guys remain poor with much lower standards of living. Works for me. :)

BreakPoint
10-16-2009, 03:08 PM
"We"? Why not just speak for yourself?

Oh, and by the way. I don't think you have a sufficient understanding of economic theory in general.
Yes, "We" as in "We Americans". You're in Vancouver so you're in Canada. I'm not speaking for Canadians.

Oh, and I have an excellent understanding of economics. I've been involved in economics all over the world.

BreakPoint
10-16-2009, 03:10 PM
You are a rich guy, aren't you?
All Americans are rich because the Chinese keep giving us all of their money. :)

Shangri La
10-16-2009, 03:20 PM
Well, isn't the joke on you? You're giving us the money to maintain our high standards of living while you guys remain poor with much lower standards of living. Works for me. :)

Is that how you try to please your boss so you can get more money from them? Your Presidents are certainly better at it than you.

Try again.

IvanAndreevich
10-16-2009, 03:26 PM
Yes, "We" as in "We Americans". You're in Vancouver so you're in Canada. I'm not speaking for Canadians.

Oh, and I have an excellent understanding of economics. I've been involved in economics all over the world.
Yeah, I don't think many Americans I know would like you as a spokesperson for them. They are mostly hard-working individuals who aren't in debt up to their ears, expecting to be bailed out by third world countries.

Then you would know that what's happening is unsustainable. The longer the Americans keep a high standard of living without producing capital, the bigger the ultimate crash will be. Meanwhile, Chinese industries will develop further, while American industries will become completely uncompetitive. Subsidies are only viable for a short while. A giant subsidy like this will DESTROY the American economy given some time. It has already started. What makes it worse is that it's a loan, not just something that's given away. Loans have to be repaid with interest. If the US defaults on its loans - game over.

Being a drug addict is great too. In the short term.

Shangri La
10-16-2009, 03:28 PM
The U.S. can certainly survive without China. Of course, the U.S. Economy would take a huge nose dive, but I'm pretty sure the Chinese economy would collapse first. That will never happen anyways though, as both the U.S. and the Chinese Government are far too deep now and are basically on the same boat in an ocean of debt.

I appreciate your rational post. Unlike some other poster who's hard to have a conversation with.

onehandbh
10-16-2009, 03:31 PM
my favorite restaurant in china:

http://boingboing.net/2008/07/15/chinese-restaurant-c.html

Edward DFW
10-16-2009, 04:36 PM
When they say "Chinese man", they mean a man from China. Just like when they say Na Li is the first Chinese to get into the Top 20, they mean the first person from China.

Lu is from Taiwan so they would refer to him as "Taiwanese" in the same vein.

BTW, Americans are no longer allowed to refer to Taiwan as the "Republic of China" as it offends the Chinese. It's now referred to as "Chinese Taipei". In fact, that's what all the commentators refer players from Taiwan as. They don't even use the word "Taiwan" anymore. I know, it's stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwW-lC4tERY

BreakPoint
10-16-2009, 07:54 PM
Yeah, I don't think many Americans I know would like you as a spokesperson for them. They are mostly hard-working individuals who aren't in debt up to their ears, expecting to be bailed out by third world countries.
It doesn't matter if an American has zero personal debt. We are all still in debt because the nation is in debt. And how do nations get money to pay off their debts?

Then you would know that what's happening is unsustainable. The longer the Americans keep a high standard of living without producing capital, the bigger the ultimate crash will be. Meanwhile, Chinese industries will develop further, while American industries will become completely uncompetitive. Subsidies are only viable for a short while. A giant subsidy like this will DESTROY the American economy given some time. It has already started. What makes it worse is that it's a loan, not just something that's given away. Loans have to be repaid with interest. If the US defaults on its loans - game over.

You seem to forget that the U.S. is the most powerful nation in the world, with the most powerful military arsenal, and the most nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. We don't need to pay anything back that we don't want to. Did that guy who was much bigger than you who stole your lunch money in grade school ever pay you back? When China demands its money back, we just blow them up - game over. :)

BreakPoint
10-16-2009, 07:56 PM
Is that how you try to please your boss so you can get more money from them? Your Presidents are certainly better at it than you.

Try again.
No, that's how bigger, stronger guys get money (and women) from smaller, weaker guys. :)

Shangri La
10-16-2009, 08:18 PM
No, that's how bigger, stronger guys get money (and women) from smaller, weaker guys. :)

and that's why you have to declare you dont have official relations with Taiwan lest the Chinese be unhappy... go learn something from your government.

Tennis_Freak
10-16-2009, 08:19 PM
You know alot about China? You studied Asia politics in your college? You lived in China for some years?

There are over 150 nations in this world, only 23 consider Taiwan as a independent country, as you said. So, majority rules, the majority of the world does not consider Taiwan as indepdent country.

Does Obama dare to declare Taiwan as a country? When was the last time did any US president say in public that Taiwan is an independent country? some 30 years ago? I tell you this: the US does not have the guts and power to back Taiwan any more. Even Taiwanese themselves are getting smart and not crying out loud to be independent. You think US can win the war against China over the Taiwan territory?
If you want extensive information of the truth about the politics and history between China and Taiwan, I strongly suggest that you read "Fires of the Dragon" By David E. Kaplan. It begins with a story of a man in the Nationalist party army during the time when there was a political warfare between the Nationalists and the Communists in China and he left to America but was still not safe from the KMT. Eventually he is murdered and the U.S. government does little to nothing to address the issues at that time even though it was on US soil. I strongly suggest you read it because this mans story provides the basis behind the current issues. I am Taiwanese-American by the way and a strong DPP ( democratic progressive party) supporter and believes that Taiwan is Taiwan and China is China, no such thing as Republic of China or some lame "title" like Chinese-Taipei. Have a good day.

Baikalic
10-16-2009, 08:23 PM
Who wouldn't?? Anyone would get offended at everything that besmirches their legacy. Would you feel offended if I sullied your culture/legacy/history?

And why would any reasonable person purposely besmirch others legacy? Now that's stupid to say the least.

You clearly do not comprehend sarcasm. The legacy of the PRC is anything but golden, and neither is the US's. I really don't care much whether people besmirch any nation or culture's legacy.

ryangoring
10-16-2009, 08:38 PM
I watch the only clip of him VS Safin and I must say he has a very good game form what I saw. As what BREAKPOINT said earlier, if he can get his game up some more, he would be someone to look out for in the future.

Shangri La
10-16-2009, 08:53 PM
I watch the only clip of him VS Safin and I must say he has a very good game form what I saw. As what BREAKPOINT said earlier, if he can get his game up some more, he would be someone to look out for in the future.

Can you link the clip? Never seen Gong play. Thanks! almost forgot what the thread is about...

BreakPoint
10-16-2009, 09:04 PM
and that's why you have to declare you dont have official relations with Taiwan lest the Chinese be unhappy... go learn something from your government.
Well, we do have to keep the Chinese government happy so that they continue sending us those billions of dollars for us to buy our big luxury homes and big luxury cars with, right? :)

Oh, does it really matter that we don't have "official" relations with Taiwan? We still have diplomatic offices in Taiwan. We just don't call them "embassies". Business, commerce, and defense relations remain the same which are what really count anyway. So it's nothing but a play on words to appease the Chinese government, otherwise, it's business as usual. :)

ryangoring
10-16-2009, 09:25 PM
Here you go! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJj_2aWnWQk)

Golden Retriever
10-16-2009, 09:42 PM
Breakpoint has obviously reached breakpoint and beyond, he is now broken.

Anyways, I don't expect you to understand but we don't expect you to pay back your debts. Please default on your debts and see what happen. Your reputation and your creditability as a nation will go bankrupt and nobody will want the Greenbacks anymore. It will our turn to print as much money as we want and we will just print more than your own us. Please don't pay us back, please.

lawrence
10-16-2009, 09:49 PM
You can't argue with Americans about their own country, you'll never win.
They're easily the most patriotic people in the world.

Baikalic
10-16-2009, 10:03 PM
You can't argue with Americans about their own country, you'll never win.
They're easily the most patriotic people in the world.

You can't argue with Chinese about their own country or even other countries, you'll never win.
They're easily the most patriotic people in the world.

See how easy it can go both ways? Just kidding of course.

I'm American and not a patriot, so ... meh.

Golden Retriever
10-16-2009, 10:04 PM
You can't argue with Americans about their own country, you'll never win.
They're easily the most patriotic people in the world.

I know but I just couldn't help it. BP's simpleton take on money is just too stupid for me to not say something. He really thinks money means the same to a nation as what it means to his minimum wages making self.

Shangri La
10-16-2009, 10:12 PM
Here you go! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJj_2aWnWQk)

Thanks... quite a rally! Gong does have a nice 1hbh and has got the fundamentals. But he seems to be not so sure what to do in the middle of the rally and needs to work on point construction.

BreakPoint
10-16-2009, 11:56 PM
I know but I just couldn't help it. BP's simpleton take on money is just too stupid for me to not say something. He really thinks money means the same to a nation as what it means to his minimum wages making self.
You have no idea how much I know.

Money is money. You can save it, borrow it, lend it, invest it, or spend it. The money itself doesn't care. The money doesn't know who owns it. The money that a nation spends is the same color that a person spends. A dollar is worth just a dollar regardless if it's in the pocket of a person or in a nation's coffers.

Oh, and why would I need to work at all when China keeps giving me billions of dollars to spend? :)

IvanAndreevich
10-17-2009, 12:01 AM
It doesn't matter if an American has zero personal debt. We are all still in debt because the nation is in debt. And how do nations get money to pay off their debts?

You seem to forget that the U.S. is the most powerful nation in the world, with the most powerful military arsenal, and the most nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. We don't need to pay anything back that we don't want to. Did that guy who was much bigger than you who stole your lunch money in grade school ever pay you back? When China demands its money back, we just blow them up - game over. :)

This is laughable. I see no point in discussing this topic with you. Your world view is about as developed as that of a 14 year old redneck. It's good to know that most Americans are not like that.

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 12:05 AM
Breakpoint has obviously reached breakpoint and beyond, he is now broken.

Anyways, I don't expect you to understand but we don't expect you to pay back your debts. Please default on your debts and see what happen. Your reputation and your creditability as a nation will go bankrupt and nobody will want the Greenbacks anymore. It will our turn to print as much money as we want and we will just print more than your own us. Please don't pay us back, please.
People will always want the U.S. dollar because people still want to live here and to live here, you need to have U.S. dollars to spend. Investors also want to buy U.S. properties and businesses and land and you need U.S. dollars for that.

What you don't realize is that the communist Chinese government has been feeding you nothing but propaganda your entire life. They don't tell you what really goes on in the outside world. Hey, they even censor many websites to keep its people from finding out. It's like how the Japanese government brainwashed its young people into thinking that Japan was not responsible to starting WWII. :shock:

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 12:06 AM
This is laughable. I see no point in discussing this topic with you. Your world view is about as developed as that of a 14 year old redneck. It's good to know that most Americans are not like that.
How do you know? You're not an American.

IvanAndreevich
10-17-2009, 12:08 AM
How do you know? You're not an American.

It's simple, really. The nation doesn't consist of 14 year old redneck kids :) I do know that for a fact.

I also know lots of Americans, have studied your constitution, and modern history.

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 12:15 AM
It's simple, really. The nation doesn't consist of 14 year old redneck kids :) I do know that for a fact.

I also know lots of Americans, have studied your constitution, and modern history.
Then you should know that we can do pretty much anything we want to because nobody is more powerful than us to stop us. :)

Heck, they even gave our President the Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing and in the middle of two separate wars. We can do it all. :)

IvanAndreevich
10-17-2009, 12:15 AM
Oh, and by the way. Since your simple answer is to kill everyone to whom you owe money to. Maybe you can explain to me how it's taking you 8 years to deal with a tiny little insurgency situation in a little desert in the Middle East?

Those guys don't even have an air force, tanks, or WMD's, or millions of enlisted men like China does. Surely, it should be a joke for the great US of A? The answer must be because you don't owe them money? Otherwise they would surely be dead already.

Or maybe, just maybe, not everything in the world can be resolved by force.

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 12:17 AM
Oh, and by the way. Since your simple answer is to kill everyone to whom you owe money to. Maybe you can explain to me how it's taking you 8 years to deal with a tiny little insurgency situation in a little desert in the Middle East?

Those guys don't even have an air force, tanks, or WMD's, or millions of enlisted men like China does. Surely, it should be a joke for the great US of A? The answer must be because you don't owe them money? Otherwise they would surely be dead already.

Or maybe, just maybe, not everything in the world can be resolved by force.
Looks like you've answered your own question. :)

IvanAndreevich
10-17-2009, 12:25 AM
Looks like you've answered your own question. :)

Ignorance is bliss. No worries, I think life will straighten things out for you eventually.

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 12:42 AM
Ignorance is bliss. No worries, I think life will straighten things out for you eventually.
To the contrary. Knowledge is bliss. Because when you have knowledge, you don't need to work in a sweaty factory making shoes for $5 a day. :)

Polvorin
10-17-2009, 04:26 AM
To the contrary. Knowledge is bliss. Because when you have knowledge, you don't need to work in a sweaty factory making shoes for $5 a day. :)

I just lost all respect for you as a human being.

IvanAndreevich
10-17-2009, 09:05 AM
To the contrary. Knowledge is bliss. Because when you have knowledge, you don't need to work in a sweaty factory making shoes for $5 a day. :)

I think you don't get the difference between being smart (which you aren't, as you clearly demonstrated by your hilarious ignorance) and being an *******. In the words of Tyler Durden - this conversation... is over.

ryangoring
10-17-2009, 09:12 AM
Ok back to the topic at hand:
Mao-Xin Gong
Here is a torrent of the match between him and Safin.
http://t3nnis.tv/details.php?id=3649

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 09:45 AM
I just lost all respect for you as a human being.
All I have to say is - Stay in school. :)

This thread is fun, isn't it? :)

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 09:49 AM
I think you don't get the difference between being smart (which you aren't, as you clearly demonstrated by your hilarious ignorance) and being an *******. In the words of Tyler Durden - this conversation... is over.
Actually, you don't understand what I'm saying because I'm so much smarter than you. How can you possibly understand concepts that are way over your head? I don't expect you to. Like you said yourself - "Ignorance is bliss". :)

OJ ROD
10-17-2009, 11:10 AM
Actually, you don't understand what I'm saying because I'm so much smarter than you. How can you possibly understand concepts that are way over your head? I don't expect you to. Like you said yourself - "Ignorance is bliss". :)

I don't know how smart I really am, but, knowledge isn't bliss. It's just knowledge, tools. Like a hammer, a racket, a wrench, or money. Although money I think is mainly a means, which can also be a synonym of tool, so it kinda all ties together, sort of.

ryangoring
10-17-2009, 05:30 PM
I don't know how smart I really am, but, knowledge isn't bliss. It's just knowledge, tools. Like a hammer, a racket, a wrench, or money. Although money I think is mainly a means, which can also be a synonym of tool, so it kinda all ties together, sort of.
Ah...ummmm....What!?!?!

ryangoring
10-17-2009, 05:48 PM
Just watched the first set against Marat and he held his own pretty darn good. Great 1hbh, mostly likely a top contender for the one of the best 1hbh on the tour, serve is good, forehand not as powerful but it is consistent and deep.
He looks really good all around.
That set had a lot of great rallies between the 2.
Thanks BREAKPOINT for introducing him to us........in a sense. :)

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 06:03 PM
Just watched the first set against Marat and he held his own pretty darn good. Great 1hbh, mostly likely a top contender for the one of the best 1hbh on the tour, serve is good, forehand not as powerful but it is consistent and deep.
He looks really good all around.
That set had a lot of great rallies between the 2.
Thanks BREAKPOINT for introducing him to us........in a sense. :)
You're quite welcome. :)

Yeah, I think this guy Gong has a lot of natural talent and could go far if he went overseas to a tennis academy like in Florida or Spain or somewhere where he can get some world-class coaching and play against top level competition on a daily basis. I think he has the fundamentals and just needs a little work here and there and more top level match experience. It's also too bad he's not a little physically bigger.

I think Safin was lucky to pull that match out. It was pretty competitive.

BTW, thanks for getting this thread back on topic. :)

ninman
10-17-2009, 06:14 PM
I certainly hope a lot of BP's posts were in jest, because his first few posts were pretty sensible. But I would say that the average Chinese person just doesn't have a clue, simply because the government controls everything, media, tv, newspapers, all of it, so you only read and hear what the Chinese government wants you to, and nothing else.

ryangoring
10-17-2009, 06:31 PM
You're quite welcome. :)

Yeah, I think this guy Gong has a lot of natural talent and could go far if he went overseas to a tennis academy like in Florida or Spain or somewhere where he can get some world-class coaching and play against top level competition on a daily basis. I think he has the fundamentals and just needs a little work here and there and more top level match experience. It's also too bad he's not a little physically bigger.

I think Safin was lucky to pull that match out. It was pretty competitive.

BTW, thanks for getting this thread back on topic. :)
Your quite welcome kind sir!! :)
Yeah you're right about the physical aspect, not the build part thought. I don't think he has the power to over power some of the elite players on tour, but his fundamentals and physical ABILITY are spot on.
Yes he needs to get out more often and play much more stronger opposition to progress to the next level. And no, I'm not taking anything away from him for being playing in the futures that he has played, but the more you play higher ranked opponents and get a diversified feel for the different types of players out, he'll become much more adapt and stronger i the long run.
I will be looking for a lot more from him in the years to come.

Golden Retriever
10-17-2009, 06:43 PM
Don't worry BH. Once that Mao guy goes to the US for the US Open, he would see the light and apply for asylum. He would be an American by next year. You could practice your beloved 1HBH with him pretty soon.

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 10:18 PM
Don't worry BH. Once that Mao guy goes to the US for the US Open, he would see the light and apply for asylum. He would be an American by next year. You could practice your beloved 1HBH with him pretty soon.
Now you know why the Chinese government won't allow him to train in the U.S. :(

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 10:31 PM
I certainly hope a lot of BP's posts were in jest, because his first few posts were pretty sensible. But I would say that the average Chinese person just doesn't have a clue, simply because the government controls everything, media, tv, newspapers, all of it, so you only read and hear what the Chinese government wants you to, and nothing else.
OK, you've got me.

I'm just having some fun with some of my posts in this thread. :)

richjohn
10-17-2009, 10:40 PM
I agreed that you are smart....BTW, I am a Chinese

The Chinese get offended at everything that besmirches their golden legacy. Oh yeah, I agree it's stupid.

Golden Retriever
10-17-2009, 10:55 PM
Now you know why the Chinese government won't allow him to train in the U.S. :(


Why did they allow Peng Shuai to train in the US? Chinese government was smart enough to not spend much on any 1handers, knowing they won't go too far.

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Why did they allow Peng Shuai to train in the US? Chinese government was smart enough to not spend much on any 1handers, knowing they won't go too far.
Maybe they don't care as much if the women defect? Everyone in China wants a son, remember? ;)

Or maybe because Michael Chang was coaching her?

lawrence
10-17-2009, 11:02 PM
You can't argue with Chinese about their own country or even other countries, you'll never win.
They're easily the most patriotic people in the world.

See how easy it can go both ways? Just kidding of course.

I'm American and not a patriot, so ... meh.

I'm from neither the US or China by the way.
And I'm definitely not saying all Americans are overly patriotic, but when there is a patriotic American, they really do justice to making your country look bad. In this case I'd have to say BreakPoint is doing an excellent job.

The_Question
10-17-2009, 11:10 PM
and a strong DPP ( democratic progressive party) supporter and believes that Taiwan is Taiwan and China is China, no such thing as Republic of China or some lame "title" like Chinese-Taipei. Have a good day.

Geez, I would never figure you're a DDP fan. It's people like you w/that crappy attitude where the rest of the world, including U.S. who doesn't want any relationship w/Taiwan. Thanks to people like you, China constantly threaten to fire upon Taiwan. Do you think Taiwan can hold out even an hour if, indeed, China decides to invade?

Anyways, it's silly to talk politics on a tennis forum.

"Have a good day"...

Golden Retriever
10-17-2009, 11:10 PM
Maybe they don't care as much if the women defect? Everyone in China wants a son, remember? ;)

Or maybe because Michael Chang was coaching her?

Well, if they don't care about the girls, why spend millions to sent Peng Shuai for training in US?

Knowing you, I know you will come up with something. I guess I am kind of bored.

BreakPoint
10-17-2009, 11:47 PM
Well, if they don't care about the girls, why spend millions to sent Peng Shuai for training in US?

Knowing you, I know you will come up with something. I guess I am kind of bored.
Like I said, they care less if the women defect. They don't want the men to defect because they are the future of the country and they would lose face more if their men defected than if their women defected, I think. Heck, China is the world's biggest supplier of female babies for overseas adoption.

Golden Retriever
10-18-2009, 12:05 AM
Like I said, they care less if the women defect. They don't want the men to defect because they are the future of the country and they would lose face more if their men defected than if their women defected, I think. Heck, China is the world's biggest supplier of female babies for overseas adoption.

Your CNN party line is "I love the Chinese people and yet I hate the Chinese government."

You know what, it is the Chinese people who abandoned those girls, it is the Chinese government who took those girls in for adoption. It is the Chinese people (some of them) who still have the 18th century mentality, kind of like your 1970 mentality.

When you go to China, you eat soy sauce made from human hair, you drink milk made with melaine, you go to toilet which is never flushed. And it is all the people's fault not the government's.

Yet stupid people like you always blame the government, which makes the people think they haven't done anything wrong. You are making the problem worse by blaming the wrong source.

Baikalic
10-18-2009, 12:12 AM
I'm from neither the US or China by the way.
And I'm definitely not saying all Americans are overly patriotic, but when there is a patriotic American, they really do justice to making your country look bad. In this case I'd have to say BreakPoint is doing an excellent job.

Oh ok. Yes, they often do. As a college undergrad in Seattle, I meet very few overly patriot all-American crazies anyway.
If BP was serious then it's a bit over the top; but I think he was doing in jest just to mirror and annoy the China patriot posting a few pages back crapping on the whole Taiwan issue.

thank goodness that's blown over.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-18-2009, 12:24 AM
Like I said, they care less if the women defect. They don't want the men to defect because they are the future of the country and they would lose face more if their men defected than if their women defected, I think. Heck, China is the world's biggest supplier of female babies for overseas adoption.

Like you'd know ;)

Wow, I havn't been here long, but it seems like you know everything, have done everything, and have met everyone....

BreakPoint
10-18-2009, 12:38 AM
Your CNN party line is "I love the Chinese people and yet I hate the Chinese government."

You know what, it is the Chinese people who abandoned those girls, it is the Chinese government who took those girls in for adoption. It is the Chinese people (some of them) who still have the 18th century mentality, kind of like your 1970 mentality.

When you go to China, you eat soy sauce made from human hair, you drink milk made with melaine, you go to toilet which is never flushed. And it is all the people's fault not the government's.

Yet stupid people like you always blame the government, which makes the people think they haven't done anything wrong. You are making the problem worse by blaming the wrong source.
When did I ever say that I loved the Chinese people? :confused:

Do you think the Chinese government would agree to put up all the male babies up for adoption? I don't think so. It's the same reason why they care more if the men defect than if the women defect.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-18-2009, 12:51 AM
When did I ever say that I loved the Chinese people? :confused:

Do you think the Chinese government would agree to put up all the male babies up for adoption? I don't think so. It's the same reason why they care more if the men defect than if the women defect.

You like any person that is non Chinese are simply speculating on what "you" think is the case.. You simply don't know...

Polvorin
10-18-2009, 02:06 AM
I certainly hope a lot of BP's posts were in jest, because his first few posts were pretty sensible. But I would say that the average [American] person just doesn't have a clue, simply because the [giant conglomerates & profit motive] control everything, media, tv, newspapers, all of it, so you only read and hear what the [corporations and gov't] want you to, and nothing else.

How about that? We're in the same boat...well not really, but it's something similar. And it's worth thinking about.

Polvorin
10-18-2009, 03:47 AM
What did this thread teach us?

1) Blind nationalism is dangerous and can make otherwise intelligent people irrational.

2) All countries have shameful histories filled with injustice, corruption, and bloodshed. (The purpose of nations is power and the nature of power is...anyone?)

3) It should be locked/deleted/whatever.

ninman
10-18-2009, 03:53 AM
How about that? We're in the same boat...well not really, but it's something similar. And it's worth thinking about.

I'm from the UK not America, and in the UK we have something called the freedom of information act. The TV companies in the UK are also required by law to be impartial, and it is illegal to print or publish anything that is actually false. So maybe in America stuff is all corporate, but it certainly isn't the case in the UK.

Polvorin
10-18-2009, 05:07 AM
I'm from the UK not America, and in the UK we have something called the freedom of information act. The TV companies in the UK are also required by law to be impartial, and it is illegal to print or publish anything that is actually false. So maybe in America stuff is all corporate, but it certainly isn't the case in the UK.

That's cool but I'm afraid it's pretty easy to mislead people without reporting things that are actually false. Of course I have no idea what it's like living there, though.

Golden Retriever
10-18-2009, 05:54 AM
When did I ever say that I loved the Chinese people? :confused:

Do you think the Chinese government would agree to put up all the male babies up for adoption? I don't think so. It's the same reason why they care more if the men defect than if the women defect.


This is plain ridiculous. If you can pass the screening, sure you can adopt a Chinese male baby. But I really doubt you can.

I would be really worried about the baby's future if you somehow could pass the screening.

BreakPoint
10-18-2009, 10:23 AM
This is plain ridiculous. If you can pass the screening, sure you can adopt a Chinese male baby. But I really doubt you can.

I would be really worried about the baby's future if you somehow could pass the screening.
How many male Chinese babies are put up for adoption versus female Chinese babies every year? I don't think I've ever even heard of a single Chinese boy being adopted. Everyone knows that China is fast becoming a nation of only men. :shock:

penang
10-18-2009, 11:50 AM
Like you'd know ;)

Wow, I havn't been here long, but it seems like you know everything, have done everything, and have met everyone....

Agree here. Doesn't mean you watched the Beijing Olympic on tube last year makes you know everything about China. In the beginning of your (BP) post, you makes a lot of senses but not now.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-18-2009, 02:58 PM
Agree here. Doesn't mean you watched the Beijing Olympic on tube last year makes you know everything about China. In the beginning of your (BP) post, you makes a lot of senses but not now.

Well 25000 some posts.. You don't get that figure by sitting idol. And there must be a lot of crap in all that too..

Tennis_Freak
10-18-2009, 08:19 PM
Geez, I would never figure you're a DDP fan. It's people like you w/that crappy attitude where the rest of the world, including U.S. who doesn't want any relationship w/Taiwan. Thanks to people like you, China constantly threaten to fire upon Taiwan. Do you think Taiwan can hold out even an hour if, indeed, China decides to invade?

Anyways, it's silly to talk politics on a tennis forum.

"Have a good day"...

Well of course the U.S. government is gona have to pay lip service to china to keep Taiwan from being obliterated. There's one thing they can't take away from a true Taiwanese, and it's the idea of being kept from the oppression that China has placed and even more when it the Taiwanese completely submit to the Chinese government. It's somewhat hypocritical but in a sense it lets Taiwan live under minor restrictions for as long as possible or until China decides to be an ******* and take Taiwan and keeping the U.S. at bay for the time being. You have to understand that the Taiwanese had to live under martial rule and uber-oppression under the KMT Nationalists that fled from China, which in my opinion, should have left Taiwan a long time ago or just perish as a result of the advancing communist. They have obviously overextended their stay, and then some.

Golden Retriever
10-19-2009, 12:20 AM
How many male Chinese babies are put up for adoption versus female Chinese babies every year? I don't think I've ever even heard of a single Chinese boy being adopted. Everyone knows that China is fast becoming a nation of only men. :shock:

BP, have you tasted soy sauce made with human hair. Have you tried milk made with melaine? (It is actually pretty good, the melaine makes it thicker like a yogurt.)

If you haven't, then shut your mouth about China since you know nothing.

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 03:10 AM
BP, have you tasted soy sauce made with human hair. Have you tried milk made with melaine? (It is actually pretty good, the melaine makes it thicker like a yogurt.)

If you haven't, then shut your mouth about China since you know nothing.
And exactly what the heck does that have to do with the price of tea in China? :confused:

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 03:15 AM
And exactly what the heck does that have to do with the price of tea in China? :confused:

That you have no right crapping on about China like you really know anything about it... Reading TIME doesn't count...

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 03:43 AM
That you have no right crapping on about China like you really know anything about it... Reading TIME doesn't count...
And Golden Retriever does? He doesn't even know there was a massacre in Tiananmen Square in 1989. Information in China is censored and the government only lets its people know what it wants them to know. I ought to know.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 03:50 AM
And Golden Retriever does? He doesn't even know there was a massacre in Tiananmen Square in 1989. Information in China is censored and the government only lets its people know what it wants them to know. I ought to know.

Oh, the loaded response. "I ought to know..

Ok, I will fall for it.. Why should you know?

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 04:08 AM
Oh, the loaded response. "I ought to know..

Ok, I will fall for it.. Why should you know?
All I have to say is you have no idea who you're talking to.

Hint: Part of my job was to know as much as possible about many countries, including China. I was even in Tiananman Square in 1989. I hired the guy in charge of all of China, who reported to me. I've spent quite a bit of time there, including living and working there.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 04:15 AM
Good on you, and you don't know who you are speaking to. I have spent a half of my adult life living in and working in Asia. So get off your hero trip and leave your wanker remarks at the door. This is a tennis forum, not your effing "I know everything so worship me" forum you self righteous twat..

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 04:30 AM
Good on you, and you don't know who you are speaking to. I have spent a half of my adult life living in and working in Asia. So get off your hero trip and leave your wanker remarks at the door. This is a tennis forum, not your effing "I know everything so worship me" forum you self righteous twat..
Um...I've never told anyone to "worship me". If anyone does that, that's their own decision and their own issue.

Oh, and nice Aussie language you're spewing there. That'll get you far in this forum. :-?

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 04:34 AM
What ever mate, had my say...

sureshs
10-19-2009, 05:22 AM
All I have to say is you have no idea who you're talking to.

Hint: Part of my job was to know as much as possible about many countries, including China. I was even in Tiananman Square in 1989. I hired the guy in charge of all of China, who reported to me. I've spent quite a bit of time there, including living and working there.

You were in the CIA???

Golden Retriever
10-19-2009, 07:02 AM
You were in the CIA???

Sounds more like the chief of CIA to me.

sureshs
10-19-2009, 07:56 AM
Sounds more like the chief of CIA to me.

Hope he was not the "manager" of a McDonalds in China. His comments could equally apply to that position.

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 12:20 PM
Hope he was not the "manager" of a McDonalds in China. His comments could equally apply to that position.
Um...there were no McDonald's in China in 1989.

Today, there are over 1,000 McDonald's in China so if the guy in charge of all of China for McDonald's reports to me, that would probably make me the CEO of McDonald's, wouldn't it? :shock: :) LOL

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 12:21 PM
You were in the CIA???
No comment.

ceberus
10-19-2009, 12:28 PM
No comment.*cough*attn******cough*

sureshs
10-19-2009, 01:24 PM
*cough*attn******cough*

Everything was going smoothly till his cover was broken when he got into a dispute about Federer playing with the stock K90.

Shangri La
10-19-2009, 01:33 PM
You were in the CIA???

But he got fired because he failed to collect the footage CIA wanted to see.

erik-the-red
10-19-2009, 01:57 PM
The current political status of Taiwan is actually quite clear. Taiwan is not a country; it is a province of the Republic of China, which is a country. The Republic of China is commonly referred to as "Taiwan," but Taiwan Province and the RoC are not synonymous. The RoC also exercises jurisdiction over the islands of Kinmen (Quemoy) and Matsu, which were and still are part of Fujian Province. There are 100,000 people living in these islands, and they are absolutely not Taiwanese.

(Sidenote: The islands of Kinmen and Matsu do present somewhat of a problem for Taiwanese Independence advocates. Attempting to annex them into a "State of Taiwan" would make the Taidu'ers guilty of the very colonialism that they ascribe to Beijing. However, letting Beijing have them isn't cool, either, as the residents there enjoy their lifestyles and do not want to be under nominal Communist rule.)

The dispute stems from the fact that the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, never officially ended. In both wars, no armistice has ever been signed, and at least on paper, the twin governments of both countries continue to claim total sovereignty over their respective nations. Thus, while some would argue that it's comical bordering on ridiculous, Beijing actually wants President Ma Ying-jeou to claim that the Republic of China is China. As long as he does that, there will be no war across the Strait.

Whether Taiwan should be independent is a completely different story. Simply put, Taiwan is not an independent country, but some would like it to be.

To actually get back on topic, I hope that many more players from the huge landmass that is Asia reach at least the level of Paradorn Srichapahn with respect to "highest rankings" achieved.

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 02:07 PM
Whether Taiwan should be independent is a completely different story. Simply put, Taiwan is not an independent country, but some would like it to be.

But what people are saying is that the "Republic of China" is independent of the "People's Republic of China", since it is not controlled by the PROC nor does it follow its laws. The ROC has its own independent government. Therefore, it is an independent country.

Now, Taiwan gaining independence from the ROC is a different story, but it is clearly already independent from the PROC, and has been ever since the founding of the PROC in 1949. And the PROC is commonly referred to as "China" and the ROC is commonly referred to as "Taiwan", so Taiwan is an independent country from China.

OJ ROD
10-19-2009, 02:42 PM
The current political status of Taiwan is actually quite clear. Taiwan is not a country; it is a province of the Republic of China, which is a country. The Republic of China is commonly referred to as "Taiwan," but Taiwan Province and the RoC are not synonymous. The RoC also exercises jurisdiction over the islands of Kinmen (Quemoy) and Matsu, which were and still are part of Fujian Province. There are 100,000 people living in these islands, and they are absolutely not Taiwanese.

(Sidenote: The islands of Kinmen and Matsu do present somewhat of a problem for Taiwanese Independence advocates. Attempting to annex them into a "State of Taiwan" would make the Taidu'ers guilty of the very colonialism that they ascribe to Beijing. However, letting Beijing have them isn't cool, either, as the residents there enjoy their lifestyles and do not want to be under nominal Communist rule.)

The dispute stems from the fact that the Chinese Civil War, like the Korean War, never officially ended. In both wars, no armistice has ever been signed, and at least on paper, the twin governments of both countries continue to claim total sovereignty over their respective nations. Thus, while some would argue that it's comical bordering on ridiculous, Beijing actually wants President Ma Ying-jeou to claim that the Republic of China is China. As long as he does that, there will be no war across the Strait.

Whether Taiwan should be independent is a completely different story. Simply put, Taiwan is not an independent country, but some would like it to be.

To actually get back on topic, I hope that many more players from the huge landmass that is Asia reach at least the level of Paradorn Srichapahn with respect to "highest rankings" achieved.

But what people are saying is that the "Republic of China" is independent of the "People's Republic of China", since it is not controlled by the PROC nor does it follow its laws. The ROC has its own independent government. Therefore, it is an independent country.

Now, Taiwan gaining independence from the ROC is a different story, but it is clearly already independent from the PROC, and has been ever since the founding of the PROC in 1949. And the PROC is commonly referred to as "China" and the ROC is commonly referred to as "Taiwan", so Taiwan is an independent country from China.

DUDE....:-D

erik-the-red
10-19-2009, 02:45 PM
But what people are saying is that the "Republic of China" is independent of the "People's Republic of China", since it is not controlled by the PROC nor does it follow its laws. The ROC has its own independent government. Therefore, it is an independent country.


It certainly is. I myself wrote, "Taiwan is not a country; it is a province of the Republic of China, which is a country."


Now, Taiwan gaining independence from the ROC is a different story, but it is clearly already independent from the PROC, and has been ever since the founding of the PROC in 1949. And the PROC is commonly referred to as "China" and the ROC is commonly referred to as "Taiwan", so Taiwan is an independent country from China.

As I wrote earlier, "The Republic of China is commonly referred to as 'Taiwan,' but Taiwan Province and the RoC are not synonymous."

Don't forget that The RoC also exercises jurisdiction over the islands of Kinmen and Matsu, which have always been part of Fujian Province. There are 100,000 people living in these islands. They're Fujianese, which makes them indisputably Chinese and not Taiwanese.

Edit

To clarify my biased position, I don't see a conflict between "Taiwanese" and "Chinese" identity; I feel that there is no reason why Taiwanese people can't be both.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 03:09 PM
Ha ha ha "no comment" on the CIA question..

My god 25000 posts on an internet message board talking, arguing crap, and you seriously think that someone will believe that you were someone of government importance in the Asian region?..

I hope you can get to 30000 before the government has you silenced! lol

You have now placed yourself in the ranks of Dr Fedace and co for biggest crap talking momo's.. Welcome to that club champion! ;)

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 03:12 PM
Don't forget that The RoC also exercises jurisdiction over the islands of Kinmen and Matsu, which have always been part of Fujian Province. There are 100,000 people living in these islands. They're Fujianese, which makes them indisputably Chinese and not Taiwanese.
Not necessarily true, since most native Taiwanese that were there before the mainlanders came over in 1949 were originally from Fujian province also. So one can argue that there's not really much distinction between the peoples of Taiwan (prior to 1949), Kinmen, and Matsu since they are all originally Fujianese, and if the ROC does not consider Kinmen and Matsu to be part of mainland China, those people are not considered "mainland Chinese" by the ROC but same as the "Taiwanese Chinese"

To clarify my biased position, I don't see a conflict between "Taiwanese" and "Chinese" identity; I feel that there is no reason why Taiwanese people can't be both.
But this is not about the people's identities. It is about the nation's identities and their independence from one another. The Taiwanese people can feel as "Chinese" as they want, but that doesn't mean they live in a country that's not independent of China which has its own government, laws, borders, and trade relations with other countries.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 03:18 PM
Wikipedia, and Google are your friends! :)

erik-the-red
10-19-2009, 04:01 PM
Not necessarily true, since most native Taiwanese that were there before the mainlanders came over in 1949 were originally from Fujian province also. So one can argue that there's not really much distinction between the peoples of Taiwan (prior to 1949), Kinmen, and Matsu since they are all originally Fujianese, and if the ROC does not consider Kinmen and Matsu to be part of mainland China, those people are not considered "mainland Chinese" by the ROC but same as the "Taiwanese Chinese"


I disagree that "there's not really much distinction" by pointing out that most Hoklo (ie. so-called "native Taiwanese") are essentially the descendants of Fujianese immigrants and Taiwanese aboriginals. The mixed backgrounds of most Hoklo make them different from their Fujianese cousins, many of whom probably did not intermarry with Taiwanese aboriginals due to the Taiwan Strait separating them.

In addition, if one's family has been on Taiwan for n generations and has intermarried with the locals to become Hoklo, then one is only Fujianese in a heritage sense. That the family was in Fujian n+1 generations ago does not make them basically the same as Fujianese who never left.

The RoC actually does consider Kinmen and Matsu to be part of mainland China, despite these areas' being archipelagos. The RoC (correctly) classifies them as part of Fujian Province, which has been part of China Proper for centuries. As additional evidence that Kinmen and Matsu are distinct from the Taiwanese label and identity, neither island chain was part of Japanese Taiwan. When Japan said it wanted Taiwan, it got Taiwan and the Pescadores, which had been Taiwan Province, Qing Empire from 1885 to 1895. It didn't get Kinmen and Matsu because at the time, they were never part of any Taiwan Province.


But this is not about the people's identities. It is about the nation's identities and their independence from one another. The Taiwanese people can feel as "Chinese" as they want, but that doesn't mean they live in a country that's not independent of China which has its own government, laws, borders, and trade relations with other countries.

I'm not saying that I accept Beijing's "Taiwan is part of the PRC" statement. As I've consistently stated, Taiwan Province is part of the RoC, which is an independent country.

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 04:57 PM
Wikipedia, and Google are your friends! :)
Good, then you should use them before making ridiculous claims about the Australian Open and the US Open and how many times they've changed surfaces throughout their respective histories. :-?

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 07:13 PM
Good, then you should use them before making ridiculous claims about the Australian Open and the US Open and how many times they've changed surfaces throughout their respective histories. :-?

I get it now... You are one of those guys that is left speachless, but then wants to get the last word in, so you therefore go for the "You got your facts wrong". Or the "You spelt this and that word wrong" trick to take the heat away from the fact that you are a boring old tool with nothing better to do than argue on the internet.

Well done!
lol.

And for your information the Australian has had 3 surfaces in its history. Two changes in 20 years.

The US has had 3 surfaces. 2 changes in what 3-4 years?

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 07:54 PM
And for your information the Australian has had 3 surfaces in its history. Two changes in 20 years.

The US has had 3 surfaces. 2 changes in what 3-4 years?
Yes, that's right.

The US Open changed surfaces twice in 128 years while the Australian Open changed surfaces twice in only 20 years.

That's how you presented the data about the AO. See how unfair that is?

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 09:00 PM
Yes, that's right.

The US Open changed surfaces twice in 128 years while the Australian Open changed surfaces twice in only 20 years.

That's how you presented the data about the AO. See how unfair that is?

Yes, but your two changes in 128 years came within 3-4 years of each other. The Australian in its what 100 some years changed the same amount of times in 20 years.... Big effing difference in the argument you were trying to make in that other thread.

But as this is a completely different thread and subject. I must now thank you for once again hijacking and ruining someone elses perfectly good thread. And making it all about how wonderful and clever you are.. ;)

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 10:27 PM
Yes, but your two changes in 128 years came within 3-4 years of each other. The Australian in its what 100 some years changed the same amount of times in 20 years.... Big effing difference in the argument you were trying to make in that other thread.

But as this is a completely different thread and subject. I must now thank you for once again hijacking and ruining someone elses perfectly good thread. And making it all about how wonderful and clever you are.. ;)
First of all, this is MY thread.

Second of all, mentioning that the Australian Open has only changed surfaces twice in its 104 year history is totally irrelevant when stating that the US Open changed surfaces twice in 4 years. To compare the two, the only thing relevant to say is that the US Open changed surfaces twice in its 128 year history or that the Australian Open changed surfaces twice in 20 years. You can't state how many times one tournament has changed surfaces throughout it history without mentioning how many times the other tournament has changed surfaces throughout its history when comparing the two. Apples-to-apples. It's called fundamental logic.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-19-2009, 10:33 PM
Yawn.................

ryangoring
10-24-2009, 07:18 PM
Does anyone know of Mao's racket set up?

adlis
12-01-2009, 05:13 AM
Asian federer?

zapvor
12-01-2009, 05:48 AM
This guy isn't the first Chinese man to win an ATP match, he is the first man from the People's Republic of China to win a match - Lu is from Taiwan which is also China (Democratic Republic of China) but not controlled by the Beijing government.

Just technicalities and politics, though.

Good stuff and good luck for Zeng and Mao-Xin Gong!!


no hes right. china and taiwan are seperate. so Lu winning is not a chinese winning.

Tsonga#1fan
12-01-2009, 07:28 AM
RIght Chang is Chinese American. This other guy was Chinese.

Is that like Serheathen Williams? She's African. African American that is.

klementine
12-01-2009, 07:36 AM
Well...

I've learned alot.

I've learned that sarcasm and debate are not a good mixture. No room for emotions.

And that the 'Vietnam war' in Vietnam is called the 'American war'-- i.e. History changes from culture/country... facts are facts but motives and implications are seperate.

Oh... and economics are about as predictable as a weather report... so let's try to analyze the weather.

NOW: What about this kid Gong?