PDA

View Full Version : What does Nadal need to change in his game to improve further


srinrajesh
10-15-2009, 06:02 AM
Nadal has been losing some uncharacteristic matches this year some partly due to injury and some tactics. It seems like his topspin has lost a little bit of bite.. Could it be a result of his injuries ..Knee injury at end of 2008, Tendinitis from June - August, Abdomen injury September-October.
Let us discus how he can improve his game

I believe Nadal would definitely take his game to another level if he can implement some of the following

1) Develop a much stronger serve (A Guy as well built as him should be able to utilise his body strength to hit 15-20 km faster)

2) Play more rallies from closer to the baseline (play 5-10 feet behind baseline instead of 15-20 feet). This would enable him to hit far more winners and though his defense would be a little less effective he would still win more points than currently

3) Develop a better net game. he should play more doubles so he develops a good drop volley which is probably one of his weakest shots. Even though he has improved his net game a lot in the last 2 years, he still needs improvement. He has all the makings of a good volleyer and can protect his knees by finishing off the points earlier. Being so athletic it is not easy to lob him as well.

4) Hit with more consistent depth on his groundstrokes.. His recent losses to Delpo and Cilic were probably a big result of the depth.

5) Use his inside out Forehand and Down the line shots more often to hit behind his opponents at times instead of a barrage of cross court. He seems to use it at times like a reflex and lost points becos people predict the right way..

Discuss the above points and any new suggestions..

dropshot winner
10-15-2009, 06:09 AM
1) Everyone wants a bigger serve. Nadal has improved his a lot in the last 3 years, I'm not sure how much further he can go with it.

2) Difficult to do as long as he doesn't shorten his swings.

3) It wouldn't hurt but I doubt that it would make a big difference, Nadal won't ever be a natural volleyer or a player that wins many points at the net.

4) Again this has to do with his grounstrokes, when someone hits at 100 mph Nadal can't fully wind up his swings, he can't just hit it longer, lack of depth is a result of pressure.
Nadal's strength has always been his consistency, which he achieved by having a lot of margin on his shots and the spin that allowed him to get away with short balls. This strength is neutralized against the tall guys and I don't see how Nadal can hit deeper without making more errors.

5) He's definately not using the down the line forehand often enough, it's a confidence shot for him, if he doesn't feel very good he's not willing to use it.



Nadal needs to get those tall players more on the run, and not just side to side but also forward, he needs to improve his slice to get them to bend down.

srinrajesh
10-15-2009, 06:32 AM
1) Everyone wants a bigger serve. Nadal has improved his a lot in the last 3 years, I'm not sure how much further he can go with it.

2) Difficult to do as long as he doesn't shorten his swings.

3) It wouldn't hurt but I doubt that it would make a big difference, Nadal won't ever be a natural volleyer or a player that wins many points at the net.

4) Again this has to do with his grounstrokes, when someone hits at 100 mph Nadal can't fully wind up his swings, he can't just hit it longer, lack of depth is a result of pressure.
Nadal's strength has always been his consistency, which he achieved by having a lot of margin on his shots and the spin that allowed him to get away with short balls. This strength is neutralized against the tall guys and I don't see how Nadal can hit deeper without making more errors.

5) He's definately not using the down the line forehand often enough, it's a confidence shot for him, if he doesn't feel very good he's not willing to use it.



Nadal needs to get those tall players more on the run, and not just side to side but also forward, he needs to improve his slice to get them to bend down.


Agree with some of your points

1) His serve may need even a technique change during off season perhaps ..
2) He has already shown he can be agressive by moving up on court on wimby grass.. shud implement that indoors and fast HC

3) He only needs to win some points at the net to put off the rhythm and counter the net rushing tactics of players like Tsonga in 2008 AO
5) His slice needs to be really low and needs to use the angles more else the top players currently wont have many problems

drakulie
10-15-2009, 06:33 AM
1. stop being "injured".

2. stop complaining.

Tempest344
10-15-2009, 06:36 AM
retire, play in the seniors tour

dropshot winner
10-15-2009, 06:39 AM
Agree with some of your points

1) His serve may need even a technique change during off season perhaps ..
2) He has already shown he can be agressive by moving up on court on wimby grass.. shud implement that indoors and fast HC

3) He only needs to win some points at the net to put off the rhythm and counter the net rushing tactics of players like Tsonga in 2008 AO
5) His slice needs to be really low and needs to use the angles more else the top players currently wont have many problems

1) It's too late for that, he can't change his technique to great extent without making his serve worse.

2) He can do it in Wimbledon because the surface isn't as fast as the fast hardcourts and because his spin pushes his opponents much further back on grass, both of which give him additional time.

3) Only few player have used Tsonga's strategy against Nadal, in those cases it would help, but most of them usually try to pounce the short balls and attack the forehand.

5) Absolutely, his floating slice is just not good enough. But again I'm not sure how much he can improve, from what I've seen Nadal is not using a classic grip to slice, he would probably need to change that to get more bite on it.

dropshot winner
10-15-2009, 06:39 AM
1. stop being "injured".

2. stop complaining.

Stop spamming and trolling.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 06:55 AM
Stop spamming and trolling.


uhmmm, tell me one thing I said that isn't true??

Just because I didn't write some long post giving "expert advice", such as you, doesn't mean I'm doing either of what you say. If anything, my post is taking up less space, faster to read, and better advice than yours.

Therefore, why don't you stop spamming/trolling.

dropshot winner
10-15-2009, 07:01 AM
uhmmm, tell me one thing I said that isn't true??

Just because I didn't write some long post giving "expert advice", such as you, doesn't mean I'm doing either of what you say. If anything, my post is taking up less space, faster to read, and better advice than yours.

Therefore, why don't you stop spamming/trolling.

Saying that Nadal is not injured. You're not doing that once, but every day.
But it's obvious that you are convinced by your conspiracy theories.

Nadal is only injured when it suits your point of view (like when you said Madrid SF was boring because it was a match between an injured player and one that cannot breathe).

And by the way, how old are you?

drakulie
10-15-2009, 07:06 AM
Saying that Nadal is not injured.


He's not. and my age has nothing to do with this topic. Please stay on task and stop trolling.

dropshot winner
10-15-2009, 07:09 AM
He's not. and my age has nothing to do with this topic. Please stay on task and stop trolling.
So he was only injured in the Madrid SF and then instantly got healthy?

statto
10-15-2009, 07:15 AM
He definitely needs to work on his serve. He doesn't get nearly enough free points off it.

He should work at his net play a little more. As posted earlier - he has the makings of a great player at net.

All in all, he should hire McEnroe to give him some coaching. There is no one better at net than Mac, and there is no better example of a serve that screwed people up without being fast.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 07:16 AM
So he was only injured in the Madrid SF and then instantly got healthy?

he is always "injured" :roll:

dropshot winner
10-15-2009, 07:27 AM
he is always "injured" :roll:

You've said that a million times already, it doesn't make it any more true.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 07:29 AM
He's never really been extraordinary in this part of the season..Besides, the season hasnt even ended yet.I dont get what people are worried about.He said himself that he'll be back next year and start with a clean slate.

ksbh
10-15-2009, 07:30 AM
I read in another thread where someone said he was 40.

Saying that Nadal is not injured. You're not doing that once, but every day.
But it's obvious that you are convinced by your conspiracy theories.

Nadal is only injured when it suits your point of view (like when you said Madrid SF was boring because it was a match between an injured player and one that cannot breathe).

And by the way, how old are you?

dropshot winner
10-15-2009, 07:35 AM
I read in another thread where someone said he was 40.

I hope for his sake that he's 14 and not 40.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 07:39 AM
You've said that a million times already, it doesn't make it any more true.

please stay on topic, troll.

welcome2petrkordaland
10-15-2009, 08:10 AM
1. improve second serve-placement esp. deuce court wide and ad court T as well as pace

2. develop a kick serve (topspin) not unlike Verdasco's go to serve. not that nadal's leftie slice is weak; it's actually a weapon when he get 1st serves in. but it's the exact same spin every time and almost the same location. w/ a kick serve, he could go back and forth and opponents wouldn't be able to sit on his 2nd or run around it. realistically this is likely not to happen, though.

3. continue improving slice: lower, deeper, more accurate placement both cc and dtl w/ emphasis on dtl to rightie bh, and use it occasionally as a service return w/ a much closer stance rather than moving back so far and giving up angles, esp. on the deuce court. i think the whole tour knows at this point that the "go to" serve against nadal on the deuce court is the wide can opener; nadal needs to stand at baseline on service return (esp on deuce court) and slice returns back instead of giving up so much court.

4. continue to come in . . . he's been doing it more and more such as vs. blake in shanghai esp. in first set. he's quick enough to get there and his volleys are highly underrated

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 08:36 AM
he is always "injured" :roll:

You are always a troll. By the way is aphex or any of your other diciples about to come crawling out of your arse to spring to your defense?

drakulie
10-15-2009, 08:43 AM
^^^Veroniquem!!! Glad to see you back. Where is Nadal_Freak??

BTW, glad to see as usual>>> you can't stay on topic. Good stuff.

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 08:57 AM
^^^Veroniquem!!! Glad to see you back. Where is Nadal_Freak??

BTW, glad to see as usual>>> you can't stay on topic. Good stuff.

I hope you're getting commision from you tube for posting that video link that proves none of your pathetic lies.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 09:04 AM
^^thanks for watching.

BTW, please stay on topic, veroniquem.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 09:09 AM
:lol::lol::lol:

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:09 AM
^^thanks for watching.

BTW, please stay on topic, veroniquem.

Dont flatter yourself. I havent wasted bandwidth watching it. I witnessed blinkism take you apart several times on this topic. Thats how i know it proves none of your sad pathetic lies. And yet you just keep on posting it lol

drakulie
10-15-2009, 09:12 AM
I havent wasted bandwidth watching it.

sure you did, veroniquem.

and again>>> please stay on topic. What do you, Nadal_Freak, and The Truth feel Nadal needs to do to improve his game?? (besides recruiting new fans)

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:14 AM
:lol::lol::lol:

Well my dear, you are either very easily amused or just a major sycophant

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:17 AM
sure you did, veroniquem.

and again>>> please stay on topic. What do you, Nadal_Freak, and The Truth feel Nadal needs to do to improve his game?? (besides recruiting new fans)

What do you need to do to improve your trolling technique and compulsive lying so blinkism and others dont blow your sad pathetic story out of the water

mandy01
10-15-2009, 09:21 AM
Well my dear, you are either very easily amused or just a major sycophant
I seem to have touched a nerve :lol:

drakulie
10-15-2009, 09:24 AM
What do you need to do to improve your trolling technique and compulsive lying so blinkism and others dont blow your sad pathetic story out of the water

That is not the topic of this thread. If you would like to discuss those things, veroniquem, I suggest you start a new thread.

Please stay on topic.

PS: thanks for watching the video.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 09:25 AM
I seem to have touched a nerve :lol:

Isn't it great how any Nadal thread they are involved in becomes about something else. (IN this case>>> me?)

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 09:29 AM
Guys, don't feed the troll. ^^

--
Nadal needs to improve his BH return, is another thing - maybe taking a cue from Federer and slicing the return wouldn't be the worst idea.

Also, improving the serve is key and I think he knows that. The abdominal tear he had probably took him back a little in terms of improving the serve, but he should be back on track soon enough.

He was serving well in Melbourne earlier in the year.

And, I think Nadal's getting the message about standing on the baseline. He was looking to be aggressive against Robredo and even mixed in an aggressive stance in parts of the Blake match.

He might have to play more defensively against Ljubicic, as Ivan hugs the baseline well.

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:29 AM
I seem to have touched a nerve :lol:

Of course you have. What a formidable opponent you are, frightening in fact.
Because i have pointed out that your either a sycophant or easily amused, that proves that you have touched a nerve.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 09:31 AM
Veroniquem has 6 posts in this thread, and none of them are on topic; Just insults directed at posters she fears. nice, real nice.

statto
10-15-2009, 09:38 AM
1. stop being "injured".

2. stop complaining.

uhmmm, tell me one thing I said that isn't true??

Just because I didn't write some long post giving "expert advice", such as you, doesn't mean I'm doing either of what you say. If anything, my post is taking up less space, faster to read, and better advice than yours.

Therefore, why don't you stop spamming/trolling.

He's not. and my age has nothing to do with this topic. Please stay on task and stop trolling.

he is always "injured" :roll:

please stay on topic, troll.

^^^Veroniquem!!! Glad to see you back. Where is Nadal_Freak??

BTW, glad to see as usual>>> you can't stay on topic. Good stuff.

^^thanks for watching.

BTW, please stay on topic, veroniquem.

sure you did, veroniquem.

and again>>> please stay on topic. What do you, Nadal_Freak, and The Truth feel Nadal needs to do to improve his game?? (besides recruiting new fans)

That is not the topic of this thread. If you would like to discuss those things, veroniquem, I suggest you start a new thread.

Please stay on topic.

PS: thanks for watching the video.

Isn't it great how any Nadal thread they are involved in becomes about something else. (IN this case>>> me?)

Veroniquem has 6 posts in this thread, and none of them are on topic; Just insults directed at posters she fears. nice, real nice.

Whereas you have a third of the posts in the entire thread yet have only made one post on topic - and a joke post at that. I'm beginning to realise why you have 16k+ posts. :)

Nadal doesn't need to do a great deal to his game. He's 23 and has six slams (is only Borg better at the same age?). He's only behind Agassi and Federer for masters shields (and it's only a matter of time before he overtakes them both). He has an Olympic singles gold medal. He is a Davis Cup winner. Any talk about how his game needs to change is nit-picking at best.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 09:38 AM
Of course you have. What a formidable opponent you are, frightening in fact.
Because i have pointed out that your either a sycophant or easily amused, that proves that you have touched a nerve.
Of course it proves I did or else you wouldnt have been getting worked up and responding to me the way you did :lol:
sycophant :lol:
ooooooooh :lol:

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:39 AM
Veroniquem has 6 posts in this thread, and none of them are on topic; Just insults directed at posters she fears. nice, real nice.

yes fat little 50 yr old trolls are something to be feared. Speaking of which, its puzzling to decipher your motive for plowing on with your crackpot theory regarding nadal. whats hurting you so my child

mandy01
10-15-2009, 09:44 AM
Guys, don't feed the troll. ^^

--
Nadal needs to improve his BH return, is another thing - maybe taking a cue from Federer and slicing the return wouldn't be the worst idea.

Also, improving the serve is key and I think he knows that. The abdominal tear he had probably took him back a little in terms of improving the serve, but he should be back on track soon enough.

He was serving well in Melbourne earlier in the year.

And, I think Nadal's getting the message about standing on the baseline. He was looking to be aggressive against Robredo and even mixed in an aggressive stance in parts of the Blake match.

He might have to play more defensively against Ljubicic, as Ivan hugs the baseline well.
BH return? Arent you basing your judgement a little too much on the recent matches?
Nadal always struggles in this part of the season.
Personally I see him coming strong next year.From what I could make out,he's
moved over.He said he was going to come out next year and try to play his best tennis.
Fair enough,IMO.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 09:44 AM
Whereas you have a third of the posts in the entire thread


I can't help it if Nadal fans such as yourself feel I'm more important to discuss than Nadal.

Please stay on topic, veroniquem. Thanks for taking all that time to read, and quote all my posts, and also for watching the video of Nadal practicing during Wimbledon.

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:45 AM
:lol::lol::lol:
Of course it proves I did or else you wouldnt have been getting worked up and responding to me the way you did :lol:

you seem to have some problems with perception my dear. pointing out your dual standards of supporting certain trolls because they troll against the player who owns your dreamboat droolsome swiss ballkid/umpire abuser does not constitute somebody getting worked up. not like you getting worked up when fed removes his shirt in between games to expose his ample beer belly.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 09:46 AM
BH return? Arent you basing your judgement a little too much on the recent matches?
Nadal always struggles in this part of the season.
Personally I see him coming strong next year.From what I could make out,he
s moved over.He said he was going to come out next year and try to play his best tennis.
Fair enough,IMO.

Yeah, I was actually referring to recent matches - basically post-Wimbledon matches..

And I agree with what you're saying, 2010 should be a fresh start for Nadal and I think he's just tinkering with his game for the rest of the season (while trying to rack up wins, ofcourse)

Ledigs
10-15-2009, 09:47 AM
Guys, don't feed the troll. ^^

--
Nadal needs to improve his BH return, is another thing - maybe taking a cue from Federer and slicing the return wouldn't be the worst idea.

Also, improving the serve is key and I think he knows that. The abdominal tear he had probably took him back a little in terms of improving the serve, but he should be back on track soon enough.

He was serving well in Melbourne earlier in the year.

And, I think Nadal's getting the message about standing on the baseline. He was looking to be aggressive against Robredo and even mixed in an aggressive stance in parts of the Blake match.

He might have to play more defensively against Ljubicic, as Ivan hugs the baseline well.

I agree about slicing the serve back, especially against big players. Will give him more time to prepare for next shot. He has a good return though.

Serve and forehand slice could be a problem because of technique issues (not using his dominate arm).

Just goes to show you that having a powerful serve is NOT about muscle, very much about technique. Interesting huh?

I think he is trying new things on hard courts, some of which are working, some of which aren't. Perhaps he was so pleased about Blake match because some of his new tricks are working.

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:47 AM
I can't help it if Nadal fans such as yourself feel I'm more important to discuss than Nadal.

Please stay on topic, veroniquem. Thanks for taking all that time to read, and quote all my posts, and also for wathing the video of Nadal practicing during Wimbledon.

its a familiar and oft used tactic you are employing there but its not really working for you. btw was that your microwave? i think your bacon xl cheeseburgers are ready.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 09:48 AM
you seem to have some problems with perception my dear. pointing out your dual standards of supporting certain trolls because they troll against the player who owns your dreamboat droolsome swiss ballkid/umpire abuser does not constitute somebody getting worked up. not like you getting worked up when fed removes his shirt in between games to expose his ample beer belly. Where does Federer come in here?
And what dual standards if I may ask?
I enjoy seeing you guys get worked up :lol:
And the ***** you've been talking bringing in a player who had nothing to do with this thread proves you're no less of a troll :lol:

drakulie
10-15-2009, 09:48 AM
Veroniquem has 9 posts in this thread, and none of them are on topic; Just insults directed at posters she fears, and Federer whom have nothing to do with the topic. nice, real nice.

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:50 AM
Where does Federer come in here?
And what dual standards if I may ask?
I enjoy seeing you guys get worked up :lol:
And the ***** you've been talking bringing in a player who had nothing to do with this thread proves you're no less of a troll :lol:

i must have missed your post in this thread where you object to drak u liar's trolling. i will keep searching

Cesc Fabregas
10-15-2009, 09:50 AM
Maybe Nadal should hire drakuliar as his coach, he might be able to get a better supply of roids then, seeing as drak is an expect on them.

Ledigs
10-15-2009, 09:50 AM
Can we erase drakulie, mandy AND veroniquem's posts in this thread? It's such a good topic and I hate sifting through the crap.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 09:51 AM
i must have missed your post in this thread where you object to drak u liar's trolling. i will keep searching
Why should I when you have the nerve to accuse others of trolling while you do it all the time?

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:52 AM
Veroniquem has 9 posts in this thread, and none of them are on topic; Just insults directed at posters she fears, and Federer whom have nothing to do with the topic. nice, real nice.

drakuliar can count. i guess that constitutes wit by his rather lowly standards. congrats

Adi-das
10-15-2009, 09:52 AM
Veroniquem has 9 posts in this thread, and none of them are on topic; Just insults directed at posters she fears, and Federer whom have nothing to do with the topic. nice, real nice.

And this is coming from the most objective poster on these boards.

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:53 AM
Maybe Nadal should hire drakuliar as his coach, he might be able to get a better supply of roids then, seeing as drak is an expect on them.

roids, cheeseburgers and guitars. hes an expert on all 3

mandy01
10-15-2009, 09:54 AM
Yeah, I was actually referring to recent matches - basically post-Wimbledon matches..

And I agree with what you're saying, 2010 should be a fresh start for Nadal and I think he's just tinkering with his game for the rest of the season (while trying to rack up wins, ofcourse) I think he should do well next year.
I dont see any major problem with his BH return.
Its mainly his serve and movement on Hard courts that hampers him.But even then its only this part part of the season he mainly needs to figure out.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 09:55 AM
12 off topic posts by Vernoiquem .

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 09:58 AM
12 off topic posts by Vernoiquem .

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1400000/Dawson-Crying-dawsons-creek-1445426-640-480.jpg

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 10:00 AM
I think he should do well next year.
I dont see any major problem with his BH return.
Its mainly his serve and movement on Hard courts that hampers him.But even then its only this part part of the season he mainly needs to figure out.

No, the BH is not a major problem - but Nadal fluffs it way too often on HCs and it's one of the many reasons he ends up losing to guys like Del Potro and Cilic, who take advantage of that.

The way he played on HCs at the beginning of the year is very different to how he's playing now.

I think all the injury stuff and the time off really set him back in that regard. So, hopefully 2010 should be different.

~ZoSo~
10-15-2009, 10:00 AM
Can we erase drakulie, mandy AND veroniquem's posts in this thread? It's such a good topic and I hate sifting through the crap.

hi and no offence but i think you will find that this thread was derailed by drak u liar as is the norm for a thread mentioning nadal.

Adi-das
10-15-2009, 10:01 AM
12 off topic posts by Vernoiquem .

Did i not mention yesterday that an action causes a reaction?

srinrajesh
10-15-2009, 10:05 AM
BH return? Arent you basing your judgement a little too much on the recent matches?
Nadal always struggles in this part of the season.
Personally I see him coming strong next year.From what I could make out,he's
moved over.He said he was going to come out next year and try to play his best tennis.
Fair enough,IMO.

well the post was about changes he needed to make for the better .. that could be for the next few years ..so that he can extend his career till age 30 or so.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:07 AM
No, the BH is not a major problem - but Nadal fluffs it way too often on HCs and it's one of the many reasons he ends up losing to guys like Del Potro and Cilic, who take advantage of that.

The way he played on HCs at the beginning of the year is very different to how he's playing now.

I think all the injury stuff and the time off really set him back in that regard. So, hopefully 2010 should be different. I really havent seen a difference in pattern when it comes to fast HC.Over the last few years its pretty much been the same.And its not like he's going out in early rounds.
He's still going deep.
Its just a matter of sorting out this part of the season which has always been a problem for him,its not really something new.

Ledigs
10-15-2009, 10:08 AM
What do you mean "sorting out this part of the season"? What specifically should he do?

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:12 AM
well the post was about changes he needed to make for the better .. that could be for the next few years ..so that he can extend his career till age 30 or so. you cant change your game just like that.Nadal's game has been tailored to be the counter-punching style of tennis.Sure,he can make little changes( and he has made them) but they wont ensure longevity.

Ledigs
10-15-2009, 10:13 AM
he's not a counter puncher.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 10:13 AM
hi and no offence but i think you will find .....

Veroniquem has 14 posts in this thread, and none of them are on topic; Just insults directed at posters she fears, and Federer whom have nothing to do with the topic. nice, real nice.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:18 AM
What do you mean "sorting out this part of the season"? What specifically should he do?
First of all he needs to know when to stop.I know he plays the prescribed calender by the ATP but there is no need to.He can afford those little fines and leave out the minor events.
His serve is probably key improvement..he needs it most on these surfaces.The more free points you get the better you stand a chance.
He'll probably have to stay on the offensive,take risks & play aggressive from the start..Passive tennis just wont cut it.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:19 AM
he's not a counter puncher.
uhm..sorry but he is..to put it in a better term for you-He's a defensive baseliner who can play aggressive but still resorts to counter-punching when under some real pressure.He needs rhythm and when the opponent dosent give him that its passive tennis..sorry but it is.I know he's improved but his nature of play cannot completely change.

Cesc Fabregas
10-15-2009, 10:21 AM
Ask Federer what Nadal is, im sure Federer will tell you how much running he has to do when plays Nadal, Nadal bullys him around the court.

Ledigs
10-15-2009, 10:21 AM
I agree Cesc. I watched the Nadal match today and he was running Robredo (and Blake) all over the court. That's not counter punching.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:25 AM
Ask Federer what Nadal is, im sure Federer will tell you how much running he has to do when plays Nadal, Nadal bullys him around the court.I dont know how much Nadal bullys Roger but you're right..one has to run a lot against Nadal.
But the one who manages to keep the points short and take it to Nadal has excellent chances of coming out on top against him.
Of course thats easier said than done.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 10:25 AM
First of all he needs to know when to stop.I know he plays the prescribed calender b the ATP but there is no need to.He can afford those little fines ang leave out the minor events.
His serve is probably key improvement..he needs it most on these surfaces.The more free points you get the better you stand a chance.
He'll probably have to stay on the offensive,take risks & play aggressive from the start..Passive tennis just wont cut it.

Nadal has a game which can turn defense into offense, so he has the framework to do just what you're saying.

I disagree when you say, though, that he is a counter-puncher and can't adjust enough to change his game. Nadal's moved on from the days of just keeping the ball in and neutralizing his opponent. Now Nadal plays defensive until he's neutralized his opponent, and then he moves in to finish off the point.

I think he can adjust his game for fast HCs because it's not so much a matter of radically re-learning technique, as it is just changing his attitude.

He has the technique, especially on his FH, to play aggressive.

Last year at the FO, Wimbledon, and this year at the AO - are all great examples of Nadal playing aggressively.

Even though the match was hampered by wind, I thought he played aggressive in the Indian Wells final.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:28 AM
Nadal has a game which can turn defense into offense, so he has the framework to do just what you're saying.

I disagree when you say, though, that he is a counter-puncher and can't adjust enough to change his game.

I think he can adjust his game for fast HCs because it's not so much a matter of radically re-learning technique, as it is just changing his attitude.

He has the technique, especially on his FH, to play aggressive.

Last year at the FO, Wimbledon, and this year at the AO - are all great examples of Nadal playing aggressively.

Even though the match was hampered by wind, I thought he played aggressive in the Indian Wells final.
Blinkism you cannot change your style like that.He grew up playing a certain kind of game its not going away just like that.
Watch Nadal and see what he does against those who dont give him rhythm..you'll get what I'm saying.
I never said he CANT be aggressive.But lets face it he wasnt even able to keep it up for a whole year leave alone keeping it up till 30.
anyway,I dont think the indoor season will be much of a concern to Nadal.
he's been doing well at the USO ..And provided he dosent get loaded with big hitters I think he can win there.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 10:32 AM
Blinkism you cannot change your style like that.He grew up playing a certain kind of game its not going away just like that.
Watch Nadal and see what he does against those who dont give him rhythm..you'll get what I'm saying.
I never said he CANT be aggressive.

You were implying that he can't change his game on the HCs to be aggressive all the time - where I think he could.

I have a feeling that 2010, that's exactly how he'll play - he needs to if he wants to keep winning slams.

He played aggressive at the FO last year, though. Very aggressive in many matches, going for outright winners on returns and just camping on the baseline in many rallies.

drakulie
10-15-2009, 10:32 AM
Nadal has a game which can turn defense into offense,

agreed>>> probably the best in the game.

I disagree when you say, though, that he is a counter-puncher

He is. Nothing wrong with that. He has 6 slams playing this style.


I think he can adjust his game for fast HCs because it's not so much a matter of radically re-learning technique, as it is just changing his attitude.

He needs to change his tactics>> not his attitude.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 10:34 AM
agreed>>> probably the best in the game.

Yep


He is. Nothing wrong with that. He has 6 slams playing this style.
he's a hybrid, IMO, because he has a lot of traits of an aggresive baseliner, too.


He need to change his tactics>> not his attitude.

Step 1 is changing the attitude, though. If he wants to play tactically aggressive, he needs to take his chances and stay the course.

Look at Davy, for example, the dude just hugs the baseline and grabs everything on the rise - and he still does it by playing into the margins.

I know Nadal's no Davydenko, but he could try to emulate him, atleast. Davy is no slouch on fast HCs and carpet.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:35 AM
He is. Nothing wrong with that. He has 6 slams playing this style.
.
Exactly..I dont know why people think calling a player a counter-puncher is an insult to him :lol:

P_Agony
10-15-2009, 10:36 AM
Yep

he's a hybrid, IMO, because he has a lot of traits of an aggresive baseliner, too.



Step 1 is changing the attitude, though. If he wants to play tactically aggressive, he needs to take his chances and stay the course.

Look at Davy, for example, the dude just hugs the baseline and grabs everything on the rise - and he still does it by playing into the margins.

I know Nadal's no Davydenko, but he could try to emulate him, atleast. Davy is no slouch on fast HCs and carpet.

Davydenko is hardly as consistent as Nadal however (strokes wise).

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:38 AM
You were implying that he can't change his game on the HCs to be aggressive all the time - where I think he could.

I have a feeling that 2010, that's exactly how he'll play - he needs to if he wants to keep winning slams.

He played aggressive at the FO last year, though. Very aggressive in many matches, going for outright winners on returns and just camping on the baseline in many rallies.
I dont know if he's going to be able to be agressive all the time..but then again thats not going to be a problem against most of the players.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:39 AM
Nadal is a defensive baseliner who can play aggressive tennis.Or has improved upon his game to that extent.I dont think he's an hybrid by nature.

Adi-das
10-15-2009, 10:41 AM
Davydenko is hardly as consistent as Nadal however (strokes wise).

Davydenko can't handle topspin well. He enjoys playing against the flat hitters such as Gonzo and Soderling.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 10:41 AM
Nadal is a defensive baseliner who can play aggressive tennis.Or has improved upon his game to that extent.I dont think he's an hybrid by nature.

No, Murray is a defensive baseliner who CAN play aggressive tennis (but rarely does).

Nadal is a defensive baseliner who DOES play aggressive tennis. Just because Nadal doesn't hit outright winners, doesn't mean the pace and spin he puts on the balls doesn't get the job done. A lot of the errors his opponents hit are forced errors, as opposed to Murray's opponents hitting unforced errors.

I brought up Davydenko just as an example of someone who can play within the margins on the baseline. Obviously their techniques are quite different, but Nadal can take something away from Davy who plays aggressive but isn't going for outright winners - which is something that Nadal couldn't do with his technique (he can flatten out that BH nice, though)

P_Agony
10-15-2009, 10:46 AM
No, Murray is a defensive baseliner who CAN play aggressive tennis (but rarely does).

Nadal is a defensive baseliner who DOES play aggressive tennis. Just because Nadal doesn't hit outright winners, doesn't mean the pace and spin he puts on the balls doesn't get the job done. A lot of the errors his opponents hit are forced errors, as opposed to Murray's opponents hitting unforced errors.

Your comment is half true IMO. Nadal does play aggressively when he's confident and when he's winning. However, when Nadal faces a big hitter, suddenly he becomes ultra defensive, almost moonballer at times, runs from side to side hoping his opponent will make the error. This is what happened in his match against Soderling at the FO, DP at the USO, Cilic recently, etc.

Nadal plays a very passive defense game when he's under pressure, and then his shots land very short, and his weak serve doesn't help. However, there aren't many players who can push Nadal like that and dictate him. Even Fed doesn't have the power to do that. It takes a good big hitter on a good day to push Nadal like that.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 10:49 AM
^^ I doubt Nadal would change his game radically just for Soderling, Del Potro, and Cilic - especially considering how inconsistent they are when compared to guys like Federer, Murray, and Djokovic who Nadal has more figured out.

Nadal just needs a new plan "B" against the big hitters, is all.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:55 AM
No, Murray is a defensive baseliner who CAN play aggressive tennis (but rarely does).

Nadal is a defensive baseliner who DOES play aggressive tennis. Just because Nadal doesn't hit outright winners, doesn't mean the pace and spin he puts on the balls doesn't get the job done. A lot of the errors his opponents hit are forced errors, as opposed to Murray's opponents hitting unforced errors.

I brought up Davydenko just as an example of someone who can play within the margins on the baseline. Obviously their techniques are quite different, but Nadal can take something away from Davy who plays aggressive but isn't going for outright winners - which is something that Nadal couldn't do with his technique (he can flatten out that BH nice, though) I know you dont like Murray but the guy has more variety than Nadal.He has all the components to be all-courter just that he's too stubborn.He has the talent but not the mindset.
I disagree with you about Nadal.He's started to implement a more aggressive baseline game NOW. Even then he is still prone to counter-punching.

Adi-das
10-15-2009, 11:03 AM
Federer's a big hitter, but he has a one hander so Nadal doesn't have problems.

Cyan
10-15-2009, 11:09 AM
Improve serve, flatten out his forehand and take the ball early and hit it faster. Top spin forehand is feeble vs the tallest players who take the ball early and have double handed back hands unlike vs the players with single handed backhand.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 11:11 AM
I know you dont like Murray but the guy has more variety than Nadal.He has all the components to be all-courter just that he's too stubborn.He has the talent but not the mindset.
I disagree with you about Nadal.He's started to implement a more aggressive baseline game NOW. Even then he is still prone to counter-punching.

I don't like Murray at all, but I can recognize that he has the tools to be a much better player.

Nadal's had the framework for aggressive tennis since I've first seen him play back in 2004 (against Federer in that match in Miami - he played quite aggressive and won in something like 50 minutes)

Nadal's just not consistently aggressive enough, is the problem. He knows exactly how to play aggressive, but he knows that playing in the margins and more passively is the better formula for victory.

And that's true 95% of the time - but not against the big hitters who are zoning in

So Nadal's biggest challenge is being able to summon up that aggressive attitude whenever he needs it.

That's tough when he so rarely has to play that way. So the solution is to play aggressive more often, especially on HCs

Step 1 is improving the serve, Step 2 is moving in to the baseline, Step 3 is flatter shots and moving into the net more often.

This is what he's going to have to do immediately once the 2010 season begins. What we're seeing from him now is him tinkering with his game to see what works and what doesn't, I suspect.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 11:17 AM
Nadal still plays a low-risk game.I dont see how he can be a hybrid.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 11:21 AM
Nadal still plays a low-risk game.I dont see how he can be a hybrid.

Because he drags opponents off the court first before hitting a winner into open court.

It doesn't require playing out of the margins and it is still considered aggressive because Nadal is the one dictating play, even though he is not going for the lines and outright winners.

That, IMO, is a hybrid style - or, rather, something in between defensive play and aggressive play.

However, this only works when his opponent's shots are neutralized by Nadal's spin and pace.

If Nadal's opponent is hitting nuclear forehands - like Delpo and Cilic - then Nadal needs to shorten the points and not give his opponent control of points.

Improving the serve to get cheap points is one way to do that, and another way to do that is to stand closer to the baseline in order to give himself more range on the court so he doesn't hit balls short and down the middle.

The second step is substantially more difficult for Nadal to improve on than his serve, I know.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Because he drags opponents off the court first before hitting a winner into open court.

It doesn't require playing out of the margins and it is still considered aggressive because Nadal is the one dictating play, even though he is not going for the lines and outright winners.

That, IMO, is a hybrid style - or, rather, something in between defensive play and aggressive play.
hmmm...good point.But its not like he dictates play most of the time or on a highly consistent basis.most of the times his oppoenents just go for too much against him because he basically puts everything back.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 11:24 AM
hmmm...good point.But its not like he dictates play most of the time or on a highly consistent basis.most of the times his oppoenents just go for too much against him because he basically puts everything back.

This is true, but Nadal is more in control on clay and grass.

If we're talking about HCs, here, then for sure you're right about that.

yellowoctopus
10-15-2009, 11:32 AM
1) Develop a much stronger serve (A Guy as well built as him should be able to utilise his body strength to hit 15-20 km faster)


Agree with this one. Although I'm sure it's a lot tougher than it sounds, given that he has been making small adjustments to the service motions all this time. Perhaps doable with his work ethic.


2) Play more rallies from closer to the baseline (play 5-10 feet behind baseline instead of 15-20 feet). This would enable him to hit far more winners and though his defense would be a little less effective he would still win more points than currently


I think the flow of logic behind this statement is, um, contradicting. Yes, Nadal will have more chance of hitting winners and yes, he will most likely be less effective on the defense--I'm not sure how this strategy would make him a better player (win more games?). Besides, one of Nadal's most lethal weapon is his defense.


3) Develop a better net game. he should play more doubles so he develops a good drop volley which is probably one of his weakest shots. Even though he has improved his net game a lot in the last 2 years, he still needs improvement. He has all the makings of a good volleyer and can protect his knees by finishing off the points earlier. Being so athletic it is not easy to lob him as well.

4) Hit with more consistent depth on his groundstrokes.. His recent losses to Delpo and Cilic were probably a big result of the depth.


These two points apply to 99.9% of the tennis players out there, pros all the way to amateurs.


5) Use his inside out Forehand and Down the line shots more often to hit behind his opponents at times instead of a barrage of cross court. He seems to use it at times like a reflex and lost points becos people predict the right way..


Great observation on this one; I haven't picked up on this pattern at all so cannot offer anything.

srinrajesh
10-15-2009, 11:39 AM
Exactly..I dont know why people think calling a player a counter-puncher is an insult to him :lol:

I dont believe he is only a counter puncher ...he doesnt need to hit winners by feeding off the pace of other big hitters.. he can generate tremendous pace of his own.
He is very agressive and makes all the top players run around which usually is not the counter puncher style of play -- hewitt was more that style

Fedal Position
10-15-2009, 11:45 AM
i Would REALLY like to know how these people like draculai know that nadal isnt injured and hes faking all of these injuries. Are you uncle tony secretly??

srinrajesh
10-15-2009, 11:45 AM
[QUOTE=yellowoctopus;4029241]Agree with this one. Although I'm sure it's a lot tougher than it sounds, given that he has been making small adjustments to the service motions all this time. Perhaps doable with his work ethic.



I think the flow of logic behind this statement is, um, contradicting. Yes, Nadal will have more chance of hitting winners and yes, he will most likely be less effective on the defense--I'm not sure how this strategy would make him a better player (win more games?). Besides, one of Nadal's most lethal weapon is his defense.


If he moves closer to the baseline he would be in control of greater number of rallies and though initially he may lose some points he would get better as he adapts and would also be able to hit his strokes with more depth..

NamRanger
10-15-2009, 11:46 AM
Nadal wins alot on clay because he's the aggressor the majority of the time, contrary to popular opinion.



Nadal also can crush a forehand winner when he wants to.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXFnyEcq2qI


Even though he lost this match, he played way more aggressive back then than he used to, and hit his forehand with alot more authority.

Cyan
10-15-2009, 11:49 AM
i Would REALLY like to know how these people like draculai know that nadal isnt injured and hes faking all of these injuries. Are you uncle tony secretly??

He is Coria in disguise, actually :lol:

Ledigs
10-15-2009, 12:01 PM
hmmm...good point.But its not like he dictates play most of the time or on a highly consistent basis.most of the times his oppoenents just go for too much against him because he basically puts everything back.

What matches have you been watching? He is always dictating play except against Del Potro recently

yellowoctopus
10-15-2009, 12:04 PM
If he moves closer to the baseline he would be in control of greater number of rallies and though initially he may lose some points he would get better as he adapts and would also be able to hit his strokes with more depth..

Interesting strategy....

I think this strategy would be more effective if he learns to use it against the type of players he has been losing to--tall, flat groundstrokes, big serves. His current style of play seems to work pretty well for most of the other players.

Perhaps as his wheels deteriorates, this strategy will also be necessary for him to stay competitive on the tour. I so admire Nadal's spirit and hope that he stays on the tour as long as he can.

P_Agony
10-15-2009, 12:18 PM
Federer's a big hitter, but he has a one hander so Nadal doesn't have problems.

Fed is a big hitter? Since when? Sure, he has a big forehand, but it's hardly the biggest or even one of the biggest. It's the best one but not the biggest. I can name at least 5 player with bigger forehands than Federer, and bigger backhands.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 12:31 PM
What matches have you been watching? He is always dictating play except against Del Potro recently er..no.Just no.
And to blinkism..I wasnt talking about clay.One would be foolish to think Nadal dosent dictate on the surface.

Blinkism
10-15-2009, 12:37 PM
er..no.Just no.
And to blinkism..I wasnt talking about clay.One would be foolish to think Nadal dosent dictate on the surface.

Sorry about that! I wasn't so clear.

Ofcourse we were talking about HCs, that is the OP's point..

But on a related note, if clay gives Nadal more time to prepare his shots, and he thinks that standing 2 metres behind the baseline on HCs will solve the problem - then he is quite wrong.

The key is standing on the baseline and taking balls on the rise - that's why I mentioned Davydenko before. Nadal could take some cues from him.

Nadal's play on grass is a happy medium between his clay style and HC style - he should just play as if he was on grass when he's on faster HCs

Mr.Brightside
10-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Improve serve, flatten out his forehand and take the ball early and hit it faster. Top spin forehand is feeble vs the tallest players who take the ball early and have double handed back hands unlike vs the players with single handed backhand.

I think flattening out the forehand would be the best ting he could do

TheTruth
10-15-2009, 01:21 PM
sure you did, veroniquem.

and again>>> please stay on topic. What do you, Nadal_Freak, and The Truth feel Nadal needs to do to improve his game?? (besides recruiting new fans)

Ha ha ha. So glad to see many others are seeing through you and your antics. Can only pity the ones who don't. Carry on. Love watching you twist and wriggle and not answer any questions with any credibility.

World Beater
10-15-2009, 02:28 PM
too many people are advocating drastic changes.

nadal is only two matches away from a usopen title. If he can arrive at the usopen with confidence - he will naturally play aggressive and will have a great shot at wining the title.

I think nadal just needs to shore up his serve - and i dont mean speed. But he just needs to serve @ high percentage and hit his spots - his phenomenal ground game will take care of the rest.

NamRanger
10-15-2009, 02:38 PM
Fed is a big hitter? Since when? Sure, he has a big forehand, but it's hardly the biggest or even one of the biggest. It's the best one but not the biggest. I can name at least 5 player with bigger forehands than Federer, and bigger backhands.


Federer is a big hitter. A very big one in fact. He is one of the few players on the tour that can go above 105 mph on his forehand. He hits his backhand extremely hard and flat on faster surfaces like the U.S. Open. In fact, people overrate Federer's tactics, when half the time he just goes out there and blows you off the court with his forehand.

luishcorreia
10-15-2009, 04:10 PM
He just need to stay healty! He's a great player and, IMO, he's number 1 inmental strenght and attitude!

If he's healty he will always be a contender!

bolo
10-15-2009, 04:44 PM
too many people are advocating drastic changes.

nadal is only two matches away from a usopen title. If he can arrive at the usopen with confidence - he will naturally play aggressive and will have a great shot at wining the title.

I think nadal just needs to shore up his serve - and i dont mean speed. But he just needs to serve @ high percentage and hit his spots - his phenomenal ground game will take care of the rest.

I agree with you. Nadal dictates play against most guys at this point on all surfaces even the fast hard courts. Only against jmdp was he not in control of rallies at the U.S. open. He was moving kiefer, monfils and gonzo around just as much as they were moving him around. He should pay attention to cilic and a delpotro at the US open but it's not even clear those two can go deep at the AO to meet nadal; even if they do the surface is slow enough that he can probably defense out a win just like he did against verdasco.

Nadal FTW! :)

Conquistador
10-15-2009, 04:50 PM
Nadal needs to hit it flatter. Nadals topspin is being easily kontrolled by playes like juan martin del potro. The high bounce-players are taking advantage of that--look at gonzalez--he didnt have too much trouble with nadals extreme topspin. I think just how hard nadal hits that he can exploit people by blowing the ball past them with his swing. Nadal really can benefit from this. Look at how much del potro pushed nadal back vertically. Nadal is able to do the same.

World Beater
10-15-2009, 10:31 PM
I agree with you. Nadal dictates play against most guys at this point on all surfaces even the fast hard courts. Only against jmdp was he not in control of rallies at the U.S. open. He was moving kiefer, monfils and gonzo around just as much as they were moving him around. He should pay attention to cilic and a delpotro at the US open but it's not even clear those two can go deep at the AO to meet nadal; even if they do the surface is slow enough that he can probably defense out a win just like he did against verdasco.

Nadal FTW! :)

many people are advocating nadal hit flat but i dont think its necessary.

nadal can still play aggressive with spin - he just needs confidence to go for deeper shots and slightly closer to the lines. He needs to arrive at the usopen with some sufficient match play and good health. Playing so much on clay/hard earlier in the season robs him of this. he needs to ultimately decide what is better - the ranking points on clay etc or his legacy to complete his career. I think nadal will have an interesting quest for usopen - much like sampras had a quest for RG. we will see if nadal can do with pete couldnt.

Nadal's second serve is vulnerable to people like del potro, so if he can get a high % in, he will have a good chance. otherwise dont be tentative and play aggressive.

35ft6
10-15-2009, 10:37 PM
If he could develop a bigger first serve, win more free points, that would really help. Other than that, can't think of anything so in need of improvement that doing so would help him a great deal. People underestimate how solid he is in almost every other area.

mandy01
10-15-2009, 10:52 PM
Federer is a big hitter. A very big one in fact. He is one of the few players on the tour that can go above 105 mph on his forehand. He hits his backhand extremely hard and flat on faster surfaces like the U.S. Open. In fact, people overrate Federer's tactics, when half the time he just goes out there and blows you off the court with his forehand.
No.Period.

bolo
10-16-2009, 09:48 AM
many people are advocating nadal hit flat but i dont think its necessary.

nadal can still play aggressive with spin - he just needs confidence to go for deeper shots and slightly closer to the lines. He needs to arrive at the usopen with some sufficient match play and good health. Playing so much on clay/hard earlier in the season robs him of this. he needs to ultimately decide what is better - the ranking points on clay etc or his legacy to complete his career. I think nadal will have an interesting quest for usopen - much like sampras had a quest for RG. we will see if nadal can do with pete couldnt.

Nadal's second serve is vulnerable to people like del potro, so if he can get a high % in, he will have a good chance. otherwise dont be tentative and play aggressive.


Good post World Beater. The tradeoffs are transparent.

I also agree that he has to be in a good rhythm to be able to hit deeper/closer to the lines on the fast hard courts. Too bad the olympics were before the U.S. open last year, he was in a fantastic rhythm at the olympics. Madrid to US open was the best stretch of tennis I have seen anyone play.

EtePras
10-16-2009, 11:56 AM
Federer is a big hitter. A very big one in fact. He is one of the few players on the tour that can go above 105 mph on his forehand. He hits his backhand extremely hard and flat on faster surfaces like the U.S. Open. In fact, people overrate Federer's tactics, when half the time he just goes out there and blows you off the court with his forehand.

Definitely not, though maybe he had bigger shots in the past. Right now he's around a small to medium hitter, relying on outsmarting his opponents or waiting for the unforced error. He sure hasn't hit anywhere close to a 105 mph forehand since Indian Wells 2006.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-16-2009, 12:31 PM
He needs Roger Federer learning him how to play real tennis, smooth, effortless and efficient.

Karlovic's Sunglasses
10-16-2009, 12:35 PM
I think he should get to the net more. Instead of running things down with his bad knees and all now at the baseline, he should focus on putting away volleys. Then again, that's hard to do with the AeroPro.

rafan
10-16-2009, 12:36 PM
1) Everyone wants a bigger serve. Nadal has improved his a lot in the last 3 years, I'm not sure how much further he can go with it.

2) Difficult to do as long as he doesn't shorten his swings.

3) It wouldn't hurt but I doubt that it would make a big difference, Nadal won't ever be a natural volleyer or a player that wins many points at the net.

4) Again this has to do with his grounstrokes, when someone hits at 100 mph Nadal can't fully wind up his swings, he can't just hit it longer, lack of depth is a result of pressure.
Nadal's strength has always been his consistency, which he achieved by having a lot of margin on his shots and the spin that allowed him to get away with short balls. This strength is neutralized against the tall guys and I don't see how Nadal can hit deeper without making more errors.

5) He's definately not using the down the line forehand often enough, it's a confidence shot for him, if he doesn't feel very good he's not willing to use it.



Nadal needs to get those tall players more on the run, and not just side to side but also forward, he needs to improve his slice to get them to bend down.

Most definitely a better serve and net game. Sometimes i cannot believe he can win anything the way he serves at times

boredone3456
10-16-2009, 01:23 PM
Nadal doesn't need to change 10 million things, but if he wants to win the US Open there are 2 things he really needs to work on.

1. Learn to flatten the ball a little more consistantly. Those spins and slices he can produce are good weapons on clay and the current grass, but on hardcourts they don't do enough damage, which is in part why he has a harder time at the US Open, flat shots mixed with his already great spin and slice shots would be a nice addition.

2. Beef up the second serve a little, it needs work.

of and course he needs to work on his overall physical health and staying 100% consistantly.

GraniteHoosier
10-17-2009, 04:14 AM
If he could develop a bigger first serve, win more free points, that would really help. Other than that, can't think of anything so in need of improvement that doing so would help him a great deal. People underestimate how solid he is in almost every other area.


What he said. He really just needs more cheap points on serve, so a little more heat on his first serve would help. Perhaps he could also be more aggresive on second serve returns, at least on fast surfaces, but that's probably nitpicking a bit. Of course on clay he doesn't really need anything.

srinrajesh
10-17-2009, 09:42 AM
Small clarification- The query posted was how to improve Nadal's game. Not what he needs to do to win USO or on faster surfaces but on all surfaces including clay..
This question would still be valid if he was no.1 and he had won the USO .

He has looked inconsistent in the shanghai open as well despite doing well so far..

srinrajesh
12-13-2009, 01:58 AM
Started this thread 2 months back and now people would definitely find more things to add as he has had some disappointing results since then

you could say it is because Nadal is already focussing on the 2010 season and was overcoming his personal problems as well due to parents divorce
but i do feel he should look at another coach / assistant coach at least to get some new perspective

Having the same coach for 15 years or so the ideas will get stale.. more so if your uncle is the coach

FedSampras1
12-13-2009, 07:40 AM
He just needs to be in the juice again :twisted:

clayman2000
12-13-2009, 07:48 AM
Nadal needs to mix up his game more.

the DTL Forhand is most effective when its used unpredictably.
the DTL BH doesnt work. Use a DTL slice to open up the court
throw in the drop shot when Nadal has the advantage. Hes become too predictable.

feetofclay
12-13-2009, 08:00 AM
yes fat little 50 yr old trolls are something to be feared. Speaking of which, its puzzling to decipher your motive for plowing on with your crackpot theory regarding nadal. whats hurting you so my child

His OCD is triggered when he reads the word Nadal.

MichaelNadal
12-13-2009, 08:44 AM
For one thing he needs to work on his return of serve and stand closer to the baseline. He hits SO MANY short balls off the return of serve that would be much deeper and more effective if he would just MOVE FORWARD. Then in rallies he also needs to stand AT the baseline instead of 10 feet behind it, we have seen him do that at times and his shots are much more effective that way. His topspin forehand ends up right on the other opponents baseline and pushes them back.

srinrajesh
12-13-2009, 08:59 AM
Nadal has been losing some uncharacteristic matches this year some partly due to injury and some tactics. It seems like his topspin has lost a little bit of bite.. Could it be a result of his injuries ..Knee injury at end of 2008, Tendinitis from June - August, Abdomen injury September-October.
Let us discus how he can improve his game

I believe Nadal would definitely take his game to another level if he can implement some of the following

1) Develop a much stronger serve (A Guy as well built as him should be able to utilise his body strength to hit 15-20 km faster)

2) Play more rallies from closer to the baseline (play 5-10 feet behind baseline instead of 15-20 feet). This would enable him to hit far more winners and though his defense would be a little less effective he would still win more points than currently

3) Develop a better net game. he should play more doubles so he develops a good drop volley which is probably one of his weakest shots. Even though he has improved his net game a lot in the last 2 years, he still needs improvement. He has all the makings of a good volleyer and can protect his knees by finishing off the points earlier. Being so athletic it is not easy to lob him as well.

4) Hit with more consistent depth on his groundstrokes.. His recent losses to Delpo and Cilic were probably a big result of the depth.

5) Use his inside out Forehand and Down the line shots more often to hit behind his opponents at times instead of a barrage of cross court. He seems to use it at times like a reflex and lost points becos people predict the right way..

Discuss the above points and any new suggestions..


6) Incorporate more slice to keep the balls low and deep so that his opponents dont pounce on them

7) Hit flatter groundstrokes which can go through the court faster. Can also use the angles more as well.

8) Try additional tactics like slice, net play in early round matches on clay so that he is grooved to try different shots

9) Play with more aggresive mindset so that he can dominate more rallies like he does on grass or slow HC. Noticed that he did it towards the end of his matches agasint Davydenko, Djoker at masters cup and seemed to get an edge over his opponents.

10) Get an additional coach particularly a consultant coach like McEnroe / Becker

11) Also he should play one clay tournament before the indoor season starts so that his confidence is up and he can take that into the toughest surface for him. Notice how he seemed to play much better on Davis cup on clay once he won the first set agaisnt berdych ...

veroniquem
12-13-2009, 09:04 AM
Nadal needs to mix up his game more.

the DTL Forhand is most effective when its used unpredictably.
the DTL BH doesnt work. Use a DTL slice to open up the court
throw in the drop shot when Nadal has the advantage. Hes become too predictable.
Your remarks are interesting. I think he lost his rhythm, the reflex for the right shot at the right time but it did come back at times (he played the perfect match vs Tsonga), also the last 2 sets vs Berdych at DC. He does have to work on it but I can't see any reason why it wouldn't come back for good. It's tactics but also timing. That just takes a lot of playing to reassert itself.

clayman2000
12-13-2009, 09:05 AM
6) Incorporate more slice to keep the balls low and deep so that his opponents dont pounce on them

7) Hit flatter groundstrokes which can go through the court faster. Can also use the angles more as well.

8) Try additional tactics like slice, net play in early round matches on clay so that he is grooved to try different shots

9) Play with more aggresive mindset so that he can dominate more rallies like he does on grass or slow HC. Noticed that he did it towards the end of his matches agasint Davydenko, Djoker at masters cup and seemed to get an edge over his opponents.

10) Get an additional coach particularly a consultant coach like McEnroe / Becker

11) Also he should play one clay tournament before the indoor season starts so that his confidence is up and he can take that into the toughest surface for him. Notice how he seemed to play much better on Davis cup on clay once he won the first set agaisnt berdych ...

I have been thinking, the same thing.
Nadal used to play clay events in South America, i recall he played the Mercades Cup after Wimbledon.

We all know that he can take these events with ease, but I think it would be a good idea for him to that.

Lets say instead of playing Rotterdam, play a clay event in Brasil or Argentina.

Then maybe play Hamburg after Wimbledon.

mandy01
12-13-2009, 09:06 AM
I have been thinking, the same thing.
Nadal used to play clay events in South America, i recall he played the Mercades Cup after Wimbledon.

We all know that he can take these events with ease, but I think it would be a good idea for him to that.

Lets say instead of playing Rotterdam, play a clay event in Brasil or Argentina.

Then maybe play Hamburg after Wimbledon. Sure..as long as he dosent complain about the schedule :lol:

djokovicgonzalez2010
12-13-2009, 09:08 AM
No one has commented because he's done great anyway, but what happened to Djokovic's serev?

veroniquem
12-13-2009, 09:11 AM
6) Incorporate more slice to keep the balls low and deep so that his opponents dont pounce on them

7) Hit flatter groundstrokes which can go through the court faster. Can also use the angles more as well.

8) Try additional tactics like slice, net play in early round matches on clay so that he is grooved to try different shots

9) Play with more aggresive mindset so that he can dominate more rallies like he does on grass or slow HC. Noticed that he did it towards the end of his matches agasint Davydenko, Djoker at masters cup and seemed to get an edge over his opponents.

10) Get an additional coach particularly a consultant coach like McEnroe / Becker

11) Also he should play one clay tournament before the indoor season starts so that his confidence is up and he can take that into the toughest surface for him. Notice how he seemed to play much better on Davis cup on clay once he won the first set agaisnt berdych ...



Recently he has played plenty of slice (too much).
The aggressive mindset will come back with the confidence. The confidence will come back from playing a lot of matches. That's the way Nadal works and I doubt he can change that at this point, it's kind of ingrained.
I agree with your other suggestions (although he has already tried to flatten more, that's something he's worked on for a while, he will never be the typical flat hitter no matter what and against some opponents the spin works better than flat even on hard).

clayman2000
12-13-2009, 09:22 AM
Sure..as long as he dosent complain about the schedule :lol:

If I was Nadal this is what I would do:

Doha
AO
Brazil
Dubai
IW
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Madrid
FO
Queens
Wimby
Hamburg
Canada
Cincinati
US Open
Shanghai
Valencia
Paris
London

This way Nadal never has to play 2 weeks in a row, except for Canada and Cincy

It gives him some easy tournies on clay to build his confidence. It gives him plenty of match play to develop his game

Bud
12-13-2009, 09:26 AM
If I was Nadal this is what I would do:

Doha
AO
Brazil
Dubai
IW
Miami
Monte Carlo
Rome
Madrid
FO
Queens
Wimby
Hamburg
Canada
Cincinati
US Open
Shanghai
Valencia
Paris
London

This way Nadal never has to play 2 weeks in a row, except for Canada and Cincy

It gives him some easy tournies on clay to build his confidence. It gives him plenty of match play to develop his game

He should axe Madrid from his schedule... it's poor preparation for the FO, IMO. The clay court is too fast for that altitude.

srinrajesh
12-13-2009, 09:47 AM
He should axe Madrid from his schedule... it's poor preparation for the FO, IMO. The clay court is too fast for that altitude.

believe the ATP tour itself should look at moving to beginning of clay season so that the transition from HC is easier

CMM
12-13-2009, 10:42 PM
Rafa will be training with James Ward, the British #4 player who was his practice partner at WTF, in Mallorca the next two weeks.


Ward of courts facing Rafael Nadal masterclass

The forecast for Majorca this week is hardly beach weather and there would not be much time for James Ward to indulge in sand frolics even if it were. For the next fortnight the 22-year-old British No 4 will be Rafael Nadal’s practice partner, and that means three hours a day of attritional endeavour.

Such invitations are not handed out because Nadal likes the cut of someone’s jib. Ward undertook the task without complaint at the O2 Arena a couple of weeks ago and there is the Spanish connection of Toni Colom, the coach who guided Nadal’s junior career and is now the Londoner’s mentor, to help to cement a relationship that could be extended on the road in 2010.

But this is not entirely a one-sided affair. Nadal is seeking the court coverage to help to search for that little edge before another annual onslaught on mind and body, but Ward has reason to need as much time honing his game as the next man, regardless of his status. Having missed the last four months of the year with glandular fever that caused his ranking to plunge to No 273, he must begin the new year totally energised.

The aim is to qualify for as many ATP Tour events as he can, the same for the grand-slams — he heads to Melbourne for the Australian Open next month — and rubbing shoulders with the likes of Nadal, and Roger Federer, as he did during practice for the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals, served to expand those horizons.

“The intensity Rafa brought to the court is something very special,” Ward said. “There would be 45-minute bursts without a break, very serious stuff. Roger, on the other hand, would be happy after half an hour and then be very chilled. But you see why both of them are as brilliant as they are. They have a tremendous attitude.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article6955115.ece

srinrajesh
04-18-2010, 05:13 AM
Nadal has been losing some uncharacteristic matches this year some partly due to injury and some tactics. It seems like his topspin has lost a little bit of bite.. Could it be a result of his injuries ..Knee injury at end of 2008, Tendinitis from June - August, Abdomen injury September-October.
Let us discus how he can improve his game

I believe Nadal would definitely take his game to another level if he can implement some of the following

1) Develop a much stronger serve (A Guy as well built as him should be able to utilise his body strength to hit 15-20 km faster)

2) Play more rallies from closer to the baseline (play 5-10 feet behind baseline instead of 15-20 feet). This would enable him to hit far more winners and though his defense would be a little less effective he would still win more points than currently

3) Develop a better net game. he should play more doubles so he develops a good drop volley which is probably one of his weakest shots. Even though he has improved his net game a lot in the last 2 years, he still needs improvement. He has all the makings of a good volleyer and can protect his knees by finishing off the points earlier. Being so athletic it is not easy to lob him as well.

4) Hit with more consistent depth on his groundstrokes.. His recent losses to Delpo and Cilic were probably a big result of the depth.

5) Use his inside out Forehand and Down the line shots more often to hit behind his opponents at times instead of a barrage of cross court. He seems to use it at times like a reflex and lost points becos people predict the right way..

Discuss the above points and any new suggestions..

Hi All,
I raised this point last year and i can see the improvements in nadal's game especially with respect to down the line shots. He played very well at Doha, Indian Wells and Miami as well and did not win only due to lesser confidence during crucial points. I expect to see him back ending his winless streak at Monaco and then French Open as well .