PDA

View Full Version : Please watch my video and make fun of me


skyzoo
10-18-2009, 04:43 PM
This is part one of my set, i'll upload the second 2/3 of it tomorrow.

Im wearing a dark blue shirt in the far court.

Please tell me everything i'm doing wrong and how bad of a player i am.

http://vimeo.com/7132837

revolutionary technique
10-18-2009, 04:56 PM
This is part one of my set, i'll upload the second 2/3 of it tomorrow.

Im wearing a dark blue shirt in the far court.

Please tell me everything i'm doing wrong and how bad of a player i am.

http://vimeo.com/7132837

This is good, I will comment in detail after I am done with my homework.

volusiano
10-18-2009, 04:57 PM
Nothing to be made fun of. Pretty decent tennis imo. The one obvious thing I notice is that you put your left foot very close to the base line ready for serve, then you take a small step up with this left foot when executing the serve. It's too far for me to see if you actually foot fault or not, but the potential is there for foot faulting every time, unless you're absolutely sure you're not foot faulting.

skyzoo
10-18-2009, 04:59 PM
Nothing to be made fun of. Pretty decent tennis imo. The one obvious thing I notice is that you put your left foot very close to the base line ready for serve, then you take a small step up with this left foot when executing the serve. It's too far for me to see if you actually foot fault or not, but the potential is there for foot faulting every time, unless you're absolutely sure you're not foot faulting.
My highschool coach yells at me every day for foot faults. My opponents never catch it though.

SuperFly
10-18-2009, 05:00 PM
Video doesn't work.

5263
10-18-2009, 05:06 PM
Overall things looked pretty good, but if you were one of my players, we would be discussing consistency and balance. I know it is indoor tennis, but I don't think a rally went more than 4 shots and it wasn't due to S&V tennis. I know your opp made tons of misses early, so why did you have to go 9-7 in a tiebreaker with a guy who misses that early that often?

lancernrg
10-18-2009, 05:08 PM
This is part one of my set, i'll upload the second 2/3 of it tomorrow.

Im wearing a dark blue shirt in the far court.

Please tell me everything i'm doing wrong and how bad of a player i am.

http://vimeo.com/7132837

I'll take it that you're still at beginner level, since the other guy in white is clearly better than you.

But here are some things you need to work on:
- Court Positioning/Footwork (You seem sloppy and off balance at times)
- Variety in Serves (You have the same type of service everytime, easy read)
- Ball penetration (shots are weak and loopy, hit harder)


Overall, 2.5 to weak 3.0. Keep it up.

skyzoo
10-18-2009, 05:09 PM
Overall things looked pretty good, but if you were one of my players, we would be discussing consistency and balance. I know it is indoor tennis, but I don't think a rally went more than 4 shots and it wasn't due to S&V tennis. I know your opp made tons of misses early, so why did you have to go 9-7 in a tiebreaker with a guy who misses that early that often?
I played really soft tennis that match for my standards. I don't think I went for much and I got pushed around quite a bit. also my back hand wasn't clicking at all

Andres
10-18-2009, 05:13 PM
Overall, 2.5 to weak 3.0. Keep it up.
You have got to be kidding.

arnz
10-18-2009, 05:17 PM
You have got to be kidding.

Pretty sure he is

ryangoring
10-18-2009, 05:51 PM
I would say 3.5 the most!

tikkimonkey
10-18-2009, 05:53 PM
I thought he was like.. 4.0

Anyways, I think a lot of your shorts are falling a bit short, right around the service line.. maybe?

drakulie
10-18-2009, 06:02 PM
First off, appears you have a good strong first serve. Work on swinging as hard on your second, as you do on your first.

Although your FH from this angle looks good, you tend to hit it short. Seems you are not extending thur the ball enough, and brushing up on it too early, which results in the short shots.

Overall, looks like a good foundation to build a real solid game if you put the effort in.

Thanks for sharing, and good luck.

onehandbh
10-18-2009, 06:08 PM
You guys should get better ball girls next time. She only picked one ball
up (at 3:45).

skyzoo
10-18-2009, 06:20 PM
First off, appears you have a good strong first serve. Work on swinging as hard on your second, as you do on your first.

Although your FH from this angle looks good, you tend to hit it short. Seems you are not extending thur the ball enough, and brushing up on it too early, which results in the short shots.

Overall, looks like a good foundation to build a real solid game if you put the effort in.

Thanks for sharing, and good luck.

Thanks for the analysis. I definitly am going to try and play atleast 3-4 times this winter if I can sneak out of swim practice, hopefully improve that forehand. I also switched to full poly about a week ago and I have been hitting a flatter ball compared to the video. Maybe snag a lesson or two. I havn't had one in about 8 months...

skyzoo
10-18-2009, 06:21 PM
You guys should get better ball girls next time. She only picked one ball
up (at 3:45).
Hahaha She also runs across courts and brought her puppy the weekend before that.

Can't think of a name
10-18-2009, 06:47 PM
Your pretty good dude... don't listen to haters, chances are they're just jealous ;). The only comment I have to make is about those dinker second serves your opponent was making. Rip that ball for a winner...make him pay for his dinker serve.

Noveson
10-18-2009, 07:02 PM
Looking good skyzoo. You keep you're forehand to close to your body and lose some acceleration though, you were hitting them pretty loopy and short. Relax and extend instead of yanking it through and you will get more penetration and depth. Same kind of thing on your serve, you never get extended all the way, probably could get a lot more pace/spin off it if you did.

volusiano
10-18-2009, 07:13 PM
I would say 3.5 the most!

I kinda agree with this due to the lack of consistency and the inability to keep the ball in play for very long. But the basic fundamentals seem to be there. Just need to improve and when the consistency is there, he should be between 3.5-4.0.

Definitely better than 2.5 or beginner level. You can tell those a mile away.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-18-2009, 08:24 PM
I'll take it that you're still at beginner level, since the other guy in white is clearly better than you.

But here are some things you need to work on:
- Court Positioning/Footwork (You seem sloppy and off balance at times)
- Variety in Serves (You have the same type of service everytime, easy read)
- Ball penetration (shots are weak and loopy, hit harder)


Overall, 2.5 to weak 3.0. Keep it up.

Loopy shots immediately rule out 3.0s and lower... -.- You require spin to hit loopy shots consistently without having them sit up...

Also, if you take a look at that second serve, it's clearly better than his opponent. The opponent in white also lost in a tiebreak (how they even reached a tiebreak baffles me). And if you look at that second serve, it also rules out anything under a weak 3.5. If you looked at one of his service returns, it was hit at an excellent angle and was clearly done intentionally. You need solid strokes and a good handle of spin to pull that off (albeit a slow second serve to tee off of also helps towards that goal). His second serve has some nice spin on it, and he doesn't decelerate the racket (at least if he did, it wasn't as bad as his opponent).

I agree with the estimation of around 3.5-4.0.

I didn't really look much into the video (this computer I'm using now is REALLY laggy), but I did notice you DO double fault. In doubles, you might not get away with it (easier to see). But in singles, I'd call you out everytime for the one on the ad court. Most people don't know about that one so you can get away with it. (Most people only really found out when Safin got called out for it and was screaming at everyone for it)

samster
10-18-2009, 08:27 PM
I think I see footfault on many serves. Nothing drives me more crazy than a blatant footfault.

Venetian
10-18-2009, 08:37 PM
I like the angle and quality of the video. Looks like solid tennis to me, but I appreciate the video quality most of all.

EtePras
10-18-2009, 08:44 PM
I'll take it that you're still at beginner level, since the other guy in white is clearly better than you.

But here are some things you need to work on:
- Court Positioning/Footwork (You seem sloppy and off balance at times)
- Variety in Serves (You have the same type of service everytime, easy read)
- Ball penetration (shots are weak and loopy, hit harder)


Overall, 2.5 to weak 3.0. Keep it up.

LMAO
Usually when I hear "clearly better" I think winning 6-1, or maybe even 6-3. But I have never equated "clearly better" to actually losing!

boojay
10-18-2009, 09:37 PM
This is part one of my set, i'll upload the second 2/3 of it tomorrow.

Im wearing a dark blue shirt in the far court.

Please tell me everything i'm doing wrong and how bad of a player i am.

http://vimeo.com/7132837

First off......AWESOME camera angle! Really gives us a better perspective of the speed and height of the ball.

Secondly, anyone who thinks you guys are 3.5 are on crack.

split-step
10-18-2009, 09:59 PM
Pretty good vid. You seemed to hit within yourself and go for it when you had the opening.
Your opponent on the other hand was very inconsistent. A lot of unnecessary errors.

mrtrinh
10-18-2009, 10:09 PM
First off, appears you have a good strong first serve. Work on swinging as hard on your second, as you do on your first.

Although your FH from this angle looks good, you tend to hit it short. Seems you are not extending thur the ball enough, and brushing up on it too early, which results in the short shots.

Overall, looks like a good foundation to build a real solid game if you put the effort in.

Thanks for sharing, and good luck.

I noticed this too, try hitting through the ball more, you'll have great depth and good topspin

ryangoring
10-19-2009, 03:22 AM
First off......AWESOME camera angle! Really gives us a better perspective of the speed and height of the ball.

Secondly, anyone who thinks you guys are 3.5 are on crack.
So Boojay, what is your take on him? Where would you rate him?

chico9166
10-19-2009, 03:57 AM
Move your contact point forward more in your forehand.

tennis_balla
10-19-2009, 04:34 AM
Ok, a few questions.
During this match, was it at a tennis academy or training session with other coaches around? Do you take lessons regularly and does your coach ever watch you play any of your matches?

I won't get into dissecting your strokes too much because its too difficult to do online, I'd have to have you on court but this is one of the things I see from a coaches point of view.
Very simply put, the very first thing I noticed is when you're serving you have no ritual. I can see you're barely taking any time to stop and think about what you're gonna do in the next point, whats happening in the match and how your opponent is playing. I only watched the first 3 minutes or so, I'll watch more later and can give you more detail but you finish the point somewhere around mid court for example, you pickup the ball, walk back to the baseline and immediately turn at the baseline and start serving.
Watch the pro's play, and how many times you see them go to the towel, walk close to the back fence, hands relax, racket in their non-dominant hand and taking time in between points. Not because they are tired, but because they are planning their next move, their next point. Their strategy. Also, its good to step back sometimes and just look at the court, look at your opponent, notice how he's looking. Go over in your head and ask how am I winning points? how am I losing them? am I following my pre-match strategy that I set out with? and so on.

Every pro has a ritual. You see Nadal pick the underwear out of his butt and always set up the same way for his serves and returns. Baseball pitchers do this also before every pitch. One of the best places to see it in pro sports is in basketball before a player shoots a free throw. The number of times they bounce the ball, spin bounce it backwards, look up and shoot the free throw. Do you understand what I'm talking about? Watch some pro matches on Youtube to get a better understanding of what they do between points, and how repetitive it is, their rituals in tennis.

moroni
10-19-2009, 08:50 AM
well you are not half bad i guess .. 3.5 to 4.0 i would say,,, to imrove, i would syggest that you consider servr and volley as a option since your serve is not slow

ps: next time get more balls XD

boojay
10-19-2009, 10:12 AM
So Boojay, what is your take on him? Where would you rate him?

Mmmmm....I'm gonna guess at least 4.5. I was almost swayed into saying minimum 4.0 because of everyone else here, but I watched the vids again and considering the pace and spin capabilities, I'm gonna break from the crowd and go with that answer. Admittedly though, they do make a lot of mistakes and the serves aren't as consistent as they should be, but I feel they play at a significantly higher level than 3.5.

boojay
10-19-2009, 10:16 AM
I'd also like to point out the raw talent is definitely there. From a physicality and athletic standpoint alone, I believe they'd be able to compete with 4.5s and overpower 4.0 and below.

skyzoo
10-19-2009, 12:03 PM
Ok, a few questions.
During this match, was it at a tennis academy or training session with other coaches around? Do you take lessons regularly and does your coach ever watch you play any of your matches?

I won't get into dissecting your strokes too much because its too difficult to do online, I'd have to have you on court but this is one of the things I see from a coaches point of view.
Very simply put, the very first thing I noticed is when you're serving you have no ritual. I can see you're barely taking any time to stop and think about what you're gonna do in the next point, whats happening in the match and how your opponent is playing. I only watched the first 3 minutes or so, I'll watch more later and can give you more detail but you finish the point somewhere around mid court for example, you pickup the ball, walk back to the baseline and immediately turn at the baseline and start serving.
Watch the pro's play, and how many times you see them go to the towel, walk close to the back fence, hands relax, racket in their non-dominant hand and taking time in between points. Not because they are tired, but because they are planning their next move, their next point. Their strategy. Also, its good to step back sometimes and just look at the court, look at your opponent, notice how he's looking. Go over in your head and ask how am I winning points? how am I losing them? am I following my pre-match strategy that I set out with? and so on.

Every pro has a ritual. You see Nadal pick the underwear out of his butt and always set up the same way for his serves and returns. Baseball pitchers do this also before every pitch. One of the best places to see it in pro sports is in basketball before a player shoots a free throw. The number of times they bounce the ball, spin bounce it backwards, look up and shoot the free throw. Do you understand what I'm talking about? Watch some pro matches on Youtube to get a better understanding of what they do between points, and how repetitive it is, their rituals in tennis.
It was during one of my fall league matches. I belive it was a 4.0 + league and I won every singles match I played. About the whole ritual thing, I bounce the ball twice before every serve. My old coach yelled at me for not having one and thats about all I could bring myself to. Sorry if thats about it but I get excrutiatingly mad when people Im playing go for their towel after every point. All i do is a clinic on saturdays and I havn't taken a lesson in about 8 months or so.

teppeiahn1
10-19-2009, 12:07 PM
Every pro has a ritual. You see Nadal pick the underwear out of his butt and always set up the same way for his serves and returns. Baseball pitchers do this also before every pitch. One of the best places to see it in pro sports is in basketball before a player shoots a free throw. The number of times they bounce the ball, spin bounce it backwards, look up and shoot the free throw. Do you understand what I'm talking about? Watch some pro matches on Youtube to get a better understanding of what they do between points, and how repetitive it is, their rituals in tennis.

Except infamous Djoko! But yea his right, tennis is all about repetition.

ryangoring
10-19-2009, 12:35 PM
I kinda agree with this due to the lack of consistency and the inability to keep the ball in play for very long. But the basic fundamentals seem to be there. Just need to improve and when the consistency is there, he should be between 3.5-4.0.

Thank you.

Claudius
10-19-2009, 12:42 PM
This guy would beat Jollyroger.

skyzoo
10-19-2009, 12:56 PM
forget about this post, sorry

gameboy
10-19-2009, 01:15 PM
You can throw out the USTA descriptions on ratings. It has no bearing on reality. If you rate yourself based on those descriptions, you should subtract 1 or 1.5 points.

If you are really curious about your true rating, just sign up for 4.0 or 4.5 tourney and see how it goes.

skyzoo
10-19-2009, 01:20 PM
You can throw out the USTA descriptions on ratings. It has no bearing on reality. If you rate yourself based on those descriptions, you should subtract 1 or 1.5 points.

If you are really curious about your true rating, just sign up for 4.0 or 4.5 tourney and see how it goes.
i won every match in my 4.0 league but I don't want to self rate, i've seen what thats gotten poeple into.

boojay
10-19-2009, 01:24 PM
Great, now join a 4.5 league/tourney and see how you do. My guess is you'll be able to hang with them and win some, but in order to win regularly and someday move up, you need to be more consistent (keep the rally going), and have a stronger, more dependable second serve.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-19-2009, 02:21 PM
Mmmmm....I'm gonna guess at least 4.5. I was almost swayed into saying minimum 4.0 because of everyone else here, but I watched the vids again and considering the pace and spin capabilities, I'm gonna break from the crowd and go with that answer. Admittedly though, they do make a lot of mistakes and the serves aren't as consistent as they should be, but I feel they play at a significantly higher level than 3.5.

At first I kind of felt the same as you. But I noticed a very short ball (and right in the middle of the court) off a relatively tame service return, a big shank, and an error way into the net off a high ball. First few shots of the first point were short, then the depth was good.

Overall, this is how I felt:
-Good second serve (can get much better, but I like it; should probably hit more to the backhand side though)
-Good court coverage
-Good defense (though no way in hell can he transition from defense to offense)
-Consistent forehand
-Moderate control over depth
-Horrible backhand (he hits 3 and dumps 2 well into the net; not including slices)
-Can probably sustain a pretty long rally if he never has to hit a backhand
-Decent footwork
-Relatively conservative second serve returns except for one

Overall this stuff varies from the 3.5-(weak)4.5 level. So pretty much he'll land around a 4.0. The fact that he can do so well in the 4.0 league means either he hasn't played that many matches and got lucky in all 3 of his matches, or he has something extra up in his head to help him win all 10-20 of his matches. I'd say the latter. His forehand can be annoying to a bunch of 4.0s if he gets it deep, and his court coverage will probably also be a *****. And on second serves, he protects his backhand and doesn't hit a single one (overlooking the fact that the second serves he faced in this video were weak ones).

His opponent can do much more with his groundstrokes, but he's inconsistent. He can hit the ball very well, especially compared to the OP. He get's most of his rally shots deep, and with good pace on them. But he tends to miss his 3rd or 4th shot. So if he ever gets pushed to 5 or more shots, I doubt he's still in the point. He simply will go for the wrong shot at the wrong time.

Overall, I think the OP should try some 4.5 matches and focus on the following to improve his game:
-Vary placement more on serve, start using it to attack weaknesses
-Get more depth on the forehand consistently
-Get that backhand into play (3 feet over the net and hit with depth and placement)
-Loosen up a bit on groundstrokes, you look so stiff!
-Stop hopping on your strokes! And you wonder why your backhand is so horrible! Look at your opponent's groundstrokes. They're so clean and quiet unlike yours. He doesn't come up until AFTER the whole stroke is done. If he wasn't so bent on killing the ball on every shot, I'm sure he could beat you no problem. But that's his problem that he has to deal with.
-Be more aggressive on those short balls!

Overall, I think your head, serve, and legs are what's saving you in your matches. Not a bad thing... But you might want to work on those groundstrokes before anything else.

skyzoo
10-19-2009, 02:37 PM
At first I kind of felt the same as you. But I noticed a very short ball (and right in the middle of the court) off a relatively tame service return, a big shank, and an error way into the net off a high ball. First few shots of the first point were short, then the depth was good.

Overall, this is how I felt:
-Good second serve (can get much better, but I like it; should probably hit more to the backhand side though)
-Good court coverage
-Good defense (though no way in hell can he transition from defense to offense)
-Consistent forehand
-Moderate control over depth
-Horrible backhand (he hits 3 and dumps 2 well into the net; not including slices)
-Can probably sustain a pretty long rally if he never has to hit a backhand
-Decent footwork
-Relatively conservative second serve returns except for one

Overall this stuff varies from the 3.5-(weak)4.5 level. So pretty much he'll land around a 4.0. The fact that he can do so well in the 4.0 league means either he hasn't played that many matches and got lucky in all 3 of his matches, or he has something extra up in his head to help him win all 10-20 of his matches. I'd say the latter. His forehand can be annoying to a bunch of 4.0s if he gets it deep, and his court coverage will probably also be a *****. And on second serves, he protects his backhand and doesn't hit a single one (overlooking the fact that the second serves he faced in this video were weak ones).

His opponent can do much more with his groundstrokes, but he's inconsistent. He can hit the ball very well, especially compared to the OP. He get's most of his rally shots deep, and with good pace on them. But he tends to miss his 3rd or 4th shot. So if he ever gets pushed to 5 or more shots, I doubt he's still in the point. He simply will go for the wrong shot at the wrong time.

Overall, I think the OP should try some 4.5 matches and focus on the following to improve his game:
-Vary placement more on serve, start using it to attack weaknesses
-Get more depth on the forehand consistently
-Get that backhand into play (3 feet over the net and hit with depth and placement)
-Loosen up a bit on groundstrokes, you look so stiff!
-Stop hopping on your strokes! And you wonder why your backhand is so horrible! Look at your opponent's groundstrokes. They're so clean and quiet unlike yours. He doesn't come up until AFTER the whole stroke is done. If he wasn't so bent on killing the ball on every shot, I'm sure he could beat you no problem. But that's his problem that he has to deal with.
-Be more aggressive on those short balls!

Overall, I think your head, serve, and legs are what's saving you in your matches. Not a bad thing... But you might want to work on those groundstrokes before anything else.
So any way you want to come to the middle states and coach me? haha. By next week i'll post the second half of match and I think i loosened up than. Thanks for the insight I really think I can take a lot from your perspective. it unfortunatly is my defense that saves my *** during matches, with probably a bit of luck.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-19-2009, 02:57 PM
So any way you want to come to the middle states and coach me? haha. By next week i'll post the second half of match and I think i loosened up than. Thanks for the insight I really think I can take a lot from your perspective. it unfortunatly is my defense that saves my *** during matches, with probably a bit of luck.

Depends on how much you pay me. :)

And yeah. Defense can get you a long way. Problem is, you need to be fit for it. So even though it's something I advocate as well as having a good offense and transition game, it's not something I want to practice at the 5.0+ level... I'll be out of breath after too many of those cause I'm in terrible shape.

If you're on absolute defense, always look to put one extra ball into play even if there's nothing on it. Sure once you get to the 5.5+ levels, you won't win as many gifts doing that, but it's always worth a shot. It's what Nadal did and he's gotten so good at it he can hit winners in those situations.

During practice, you want to hit as many quality shots as you can, as well as you can, without missing.

In matches... You want to throw in whatever gives you the point. If it wins you the point, be satisfied with it even if it was the worst shot you've ever hit in your life.

The biggest thing I cannot emphasize enough for you is to keep your feet and lower body quiet on your groundstrokes. At the very least, do it for your backhand. Your forehand can survive right now without it, but your backhand needs your feet on the floor and lower body quiet in order to function well. Granted you cover up for it nicely, but you can only cover so much court with your forehand.

boojay
10-19-2009, 03:53 PM
If you're on absolute defense, always look to put one extra ball into play even if there's nothing on it. Sure once you get to the 5.5+ levels, you won't win as many gifts doing that, but it's always worth a shot.

I've been hitting with the new club pro lately (shockingly he's asked me to hit with him and not the other way around, no lessons or anything), and I can attest to this. It's not like he overpowers me or anything, in fact, I think I'm capable of hitting bigger when given the right opportunity, but his consistency, pressure, and ability to put any and all short balls away with ease completely left me in the dust. I'm probably one of the fastest (if not the fastest) guys at the club and he runs me ragged until he gets a short ball. He takes the ball so early and often that he simply "rallies" winners passed me. Any points I win are the occasional error made by him or a lucky guess on my part where I'm able to set up and rip one for a winner.

skyzoo
10-19-2009, 04:08 PM
I've been hitting with the new club pro lately (shockingly he's asked me to hit with him and not the other way around, no lessons or anything), and I can attest to this. It's not like he overpowers me or anything, in fact, I think I'm capable of hitting bigger when given the right opportunity, but his consistency, pressure, and ability to put any and all short balls away with ease completely left me in the dust. I'm probably one of the fastest (if not the fastest) guys at the club and he runs me ragged until he gets a short ball. He takes the ball so early and often that he simply "rallies" winners passed me. Any points I win are the occasional error made by him or a lucky guess on my part where I'm able to set up and rip one for a winner.
Come spring time during the season I'll definitly work on stepping up my game, with the placement and consistency you guys have mentioned. After watching my video i've tried hitting my forehand a bit flatter and my second serve with a bit more pace. It did work but wasn't with the consistency. Tomorrow i'll definitly work on keeping unforced errors to a minimum.

boojay
10-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Come spring time during the season I'll definitly work on stepping up my game, with the placement and consistency you guys have mentioned. After watching my video i've tried hitting my forehand a bit flatter and my second serve with a bit more pace. It did work but wasn't with the consistency. Tomorrow i'll definitly work on keeping unforced errors to a minimum.

That's a good approach. I think one of the main reasons why many people ask me to hit is because I get a LOT of balls back. For the most part all I hit are rally balls and I really never go for broke. I'll crank the occasional winner if given the chance, but I'd much rather stay within my limits and not have to feel like I need to play beyond what I'm capable of. The feeling of having something to fall back on does wonders for your confidence and mental game. The catch is I need to build a minimum foundation that's not easily attackable, otherwise I'll just keep getting my butt spanked.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-19-2009, 04:19 PM
I've been hitting with the new club pro lately (shockingly he's asked me to hit with him and not the other way around, no lessons or anything), and I can attest to this. It's not like he overpowers me or anything, in fact, I think I'm capable of hitting bigger when given the right opportunity, but his consistency, pressure, and ability to put any and all short balls away with ease completely left me in the dust. I'm probably one of the fastest (if not the fastest) guys at the club and he runs me ragged until he gets a short ball. He takes the ball so early and often that he simply "rallies" winners passed me. Any points I win are the occasional error made by him or a lucky guess on my part where I'm able to set up and rip one for a winner.

Yeah. I know the feeling. Playing people who are solid high level players, you can feel sort of an aura around them, that you can't miss and you can't hit a short ball. The higher the level and the greater the difference in skill, the stronger that aura feels. Though I don't know how what I experienced would've felt to a 2.5 player. I don't think they could've felt that. They would've been more focused on getting their own balls into the court. I doubt they'd feel the same pressure.

I think you have to be at least a certain level to feel it. Otherwise you're focused on different things and can't feel the quality required to stay in points. Your brain sort of wakes up and your senses are more aware of the court and yourself. You start thinking of how to just win points. You aren't playing your natural, thoughtless game anymore. Now you're looking at your shots as tools to try and set up a winning opportunity. You focus on the basic things to make your shot as high quality as possible without taking risks (improved footwork, added depth, consistent hitting). You learn to play within yourself, while also redlining it (in a way, it's like learning how to maximize what you already have while still playing within your limits). You become aware of how much weight each error has to both of you. One of his errors means you've lucked out to outlast him in a rally and got a point. One of your errors means you failed to outlast him and gave him a free point. A short ball becomes an invitation to close out a point. However, he's more likely to close it out cleanly where you'll have to do more work, but it's still much easier than rallying an extra 10-20 balls for an error.

Though I haven't had the experience of having rally balls fly past me as winners (yet; unless we're talking about MY rally balls flying past my opponents when I play people below my level :)). Winners are usually off short balls or my weak shots. Then again, the aggressive baseliners will occasionally go for it and be successful. But they'll choose their moments more than lower level players so that they won't give up free points.

It's the greatest feeling in the world. I can't say I've ever been more thrilled by anything else in this world.

skyzoo
10-19-2009, 04:19 PM
That's a good approach. I think one of the main reasons why many people ask me to hit is because I get a LOT of balls back. For the most part all I hit are rally balls and I really never go for broke. I'll crank the occasional winner if given the chance, but I'd much rather stay within my limits and not have to feel like I need to play beyond what I'm capable of. The feeling of having something to fall back on does wonders for your confidence and mental game. The catch is I need to build a minimum foundation that's not easily attackable, otherwise I'll just keep getting my butt spanked.
I'll try that approach and I think i'll work on it this month. really push myself as much as possible. Im Signed up for a regional tourny next month and i'll use this thread to push my self decently far in the draw. maybe develop a back hand to.....

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-19-2009, 04:24 PM
That's a good approach. I think one of the main reasons why many people ask me to hit is because I get a LOT of balls back. For the most part all I hit are rally balls and I really never go for broke. I'll crank the occasional winner if given the chance, but I'd much rather stay within my limits and not have to feel like I need to play beyond what I'm capable of. The feeling of having something to fall back on does wonders for your confidence and mental game. The catch is I need to build a minimum foundation that's not easily attackable, otherwise I'll just keep getting my butt spanked.

Yeah, I've moved more towards this kind of thinking, but I'll be aggressive with my placement, depth, and spin when I can't be aggressive with pace.

If I get a slower ball, I'll still take a massive swing on it even if it's deep. I just put a lot more spin and height on the ball to make sure it goes over and drops down (and kicks like crazy). Once I get the short ball though, I'm going for the kill. I mainly focus on using the heavy spin to draw the short ball, and attack the short ball using pace and follow it to the net for anything that comes back. It's the easiest way to feel like you're taking a giant rip on every ball while still playing well within yourself, which I think I need to quiet the aggression within myself.

boojay
10-19-2009, 04:56 PM
Though I haven't had the experience of having rally balls fly past me as winners (yet; unless we're talking about MY rally balls flying past my opponents when I play people below my level :)).

Great post, very insightful. Let me clarify about him rallying winners passed me. What I meant to say is that his movement, anticipation, and form are so perfect that he only needs to move me left and right 4 or 5 times to pull me off the court, then all he needs to do is roll one off the side for a winner, no need to actually kill the ball. He's more successful at hitting winners this way than simply trying to blast them passed me because those would generally be flatter balls that don't move me as much.

I guess what I meant by the rally winner is the speed of the shot and the ease with which he hits it is equivalent to the rally ball. I would do the same if I pulled my opponent all the way off the court and had nothing but open court to hit to.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-19-2009, 05:28 PM
Great post, very insightful. Let me clarify about him rallying winners passed me. What I meant to say is that his movement, anticipation, and form are so perfect that he only needs to move me left and right 4 or 5 times to pull me off the court, then all he needs to do is roll one off the side for a winner, no need to actually kill the ball. He's more successful at hitting winners this way than simply trying to blast them passed me because those would generally be flatter balls that don't move me as much.

I guess what I meant by the rally winner is the speed of the shot and the ease with which he hits it is equivalent to the rally ball. I would do the same if I pulled my opponent all the way off the court and had nothing but open court to hit to.

Yeah. I know what you mean. I've done that to people before. It is wicked fun! It takes a while, but it's fun to see people under your total control. :twisted:

Works best on pushers and counterpunchers, because you know they can't hurt you consistently and they'll chase the ball down to hell if they must in order to win a point. :twisted:

Or eventually you hit one behind them and they're too tired to change directions. Anything and everything works.

Also, this will only work when there's a clear difference in skill level. If there isn't, the player in control must eventually go for a winner (or at least go for bigger shots). It's impossible to keep a person of equal level on the full run with nothing but a rally ball for an entire point (unless you're both on the full run). They WILL get back into the point and possibly put you on the run.

ahile02
10-19-2009, 05:47 PM
I'll take it that you're still at beginner level, since the other guy in white is clearly better than you.

But here are some things you need to work on:
- Court Positioning/Footwork (You seem sloppy and off balance at times)
- Variety in Serves (You have the same type of service everytime, easy read)
- Ball penetration (shots are weak and loopy, hit harder)


Overall, 2.5 to weak 3.0. Keep it up.

I'm no expert, but IMO he is definetely higher than 2.5-weak 3.0 (just watched first few minutes). I'd maybe call him a 4.0

longst
10-19-2009, 06:31 PM
You have got to be kidding.


Weak 2.5?!??!! Do you play with giants or something. He looked like 4.0. Maybe a strong 3.5.

ubermeyer
10-19-2009, 07:01 PM
don't DF or foot fault, those are easy to correct

skyzoo
10-19-2009, 07:06 PM
don't DF or foot fault, those are easy to correct
I never have been called on a foot fault and only doubled once that set.

tennis_balla
10-20-2009, 06:44 AM
It was during one of my fall league matches. I belive it was a 4.0 + league and I won every singles match I played. About the whole ritual thing, I bounce the ball twice before every serve. My old coach yelled at me for not having one and thats about all I could bring myself to. Sorry if thats about it but I get excrutiatingly mad when people Im playing go for their towel after every point. All i do is a clinic on saturdays and I havn't taken a lesson in about 8 months or so.

Maybe you misunderstood me or misunderstand the point of a ritual. Its not about going to the towel everytime, its not about slowing down the game to a very slow speed like Ivan Lendl used to do so well. Its about having a strong ritual and not walking back after you finish a point, cross the baseline and immediately turn, bounce the ball a few times and serve which you do pretty much every time and more importantly you don't allow yourself to have any sort of plan or strategy for the next point. It just looks like you're serving and play the point out however it comes with only minor variations in tactics.

5263
10-20-2009, 07:38 AM
I didn't really look much into the video (this computer I'm using now is REALLY laggy), but I did notice you DO double fault. In doubles, you might not get away with it (easier to see). But in singles, I'd call you out everytime for the one on the ad court. Most people don't know about that one so you can get away with it. (Most people only really found out when Safin got called out for it and was screaming at everyone for it)

foot fault or double fault?

skyzoo
10-20-2009, 11:39 AM
Maybe you misunderstood me or misunderstand the point of a ritual. Its not about going to the towel everytime, its not about slowing down the game to a very slow speed like Ivan Lendl used to do so well. Its about having a strong ritual and not walking back after you finish a point, cross the baseline and immediately turn, bounce the ball a few times and serve which you do pretty much every time and more importantly you don't allow yourself to have any sort of plan or strategy for the next point. It just looks like you're serving and play the point out however it comes with only minor variations in tactics.
I don't really know what to say other than I hate slow tennis. I think Monfil, other than get his towel every once in awhile just goes up to the baseline, bounces the ball once and rips a serve. The only thing I can think of ritual-like is playing with my strings to relax my self and think about the next point some.

Tennisman912
10-20-2009, 12:49 PM
Skyzoo,

Some of the best advice you have received is the get a lot of balls in play. XCTS also has some good advice. Keeping it in play wins more matches at 4.0 and below than anything else. Let me add some things I notice. First, I hope you noticed that even though your opponent has better strokes than you (IMHO, especially BH), he donated half your points on errors like over hitting or framing your weaker 2nd serve returns. If you play smart, you should be able to easily beat this type of player. Just another example of it doesn’t matter how pretty your strokes are, it only matters how smart you play and whether you won or lost, even if you may be weaker on paper.

Yes, the forehand is loopy but that is ok if you can keep it deep. A deep, loppy ground stroke is hard to attack and they will probably try to hit a winner from the wrong position on the court (i.e. your video has plenty of examples). Yes, you must learn to flatten it out to end points but a loopy stroke is fine for a rally ball. Improve that second serve as better players will attack more aggressively than this gentleman did. Your BH needs the most work. A good player would feed you a steady diet of BHs until you cough up a short ball (probably not long based on the video) and hit an inside stroke to the open court. Even if you get to it, (you are relatively fast and young) that loopy forehand would be a relatively easy volley into the open court (another reason you need a flatter FH shot). Decent first serve.

I would agree with the assessment of in the neighborhood of 4.0 or just below area. You can certainly improve to solid 4.0 with some practice and stroke improvement. Improve the BH and second serve and you will do well. Play smart and you will do even better. Go play a computer rated 4.5 and you will see what I mean. A 4.5+ will attack the second serve and BH relentlessly until you crack.

Best of luck

TM

fruitytennis1
10-20-2009, 01:05 PM
A solid 3.5. Your set up for 4.0 just need more consistancy and placement.

brado32003
10-20-2009, 02:11 PM
Not horrible i guess...

5263
10-20-2009, 07:54 PM
This is part one of my set, i'll upload the second 2/3 of it tomorrow.

Im wearing a dark blue shirt in the far court.

Please tell me everything i'm doing wrong and how bad of a player i am.

http://vimeo.com/7132837

One thing that you might really like is that to be consistent doesn't mean you have to just roll the ball back. You can really blast the ball 4 ft over the net at full throttle if you try to see how fast you can get it down in the court with big spin, away from the lines. By moving out away from the lines for safer targets, you can stay very, very aggressive with your swings.

prattle128
10-21-2009, 11:28 PM
Gotta give +1 for the title (of the thread)

skyzoo
10-22-2009, 03:21 AM
Gotta give +1 for the title (of the thread)
I figured it would happen anyway.