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crash1929
10-18-2009, 10:46 PM
I saw a picture of edberg and it reminded me of a lesson i overheard a guy giving (the guy that can hit 130). he advised people to open up like a big league pitcher where your arms are stretched out really wide. when moving like this it kinda feels like your stretching out your chest, too.


I was trying this today and it added a lot of pace to my serve. Do you guys have any experience with this? When I try this I tend to exert more energy and really try to whack it.

Kinda of reminded me of the hip stretch advice I learned about on here.

SystemicAnomaly
10-19-2009, 03:07 AM
http://www.thecompletepitcher.com/images/faults/fault-elbowalignment.jpghttp://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/104115/maddux.jpg

Notice that the pitchers have taken a long stride forward with the left leg. The hips have rotated forward. In the 2nd photo we see that the torso has also started to rotate (uncoil). In both photos we see that the elbow of the pitching arm has remained back at these points. This has an effect of producing a pectoral stretch. Notice especially the the part of the chest that attaches to the right shoulder is stretched (like a rubber band).

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5t0S1btK2Ag/0.jpghttp://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/2251083/Figure0-main_Full.jpg

For a tennis server, we see that the elbow is also back (and down) at the trophy position. Even as the racquet head starts to drop (to the scratch position), the elbow remains back. Altho' the tennis server does not take a stride forward like the baseball pitcher, the body starts to rotate (uncoil) as the racquet head drops. Since the elbow is left pointing back for a bit, a pectoral stretch is induced. As the racquet head points downward on the drop, the elbow moves upward a bit but it still remains back -- stretching the chest muscles (to the hitting shoulder) like a rubber band. As the arm & racquet start to move upward to strike the ball the "rubber band" is released.
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SystemicAnomaly
10-19-2009, 03:13 AM
In the last photo in the previous post, we see that Agassi has just started to drop his racquet head from the trophy position. His hips have just started to uncoil yet his right elbow remains back. Take a look at the pohotos below for more evidence of the pectoral stretch.

http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/Serve/body_UP_Contact/sternumgroup.jpg

http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step12-5contact.html#sternum
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pondus
12-19-2010, 04:21 PM
Can you recommend any drills to work on this "pectoral stretch"?

larry10s
12-19-2010, 04:40 PM
try to get into the "limbo" position in your knee bend /trophjy position
not like you are sitting on a bar stool
the chest up position will help in the chest stretch
(thanks pat dougherty for these ideas and expanations)

HunterST
12-19-2010, 05:58 PM
try to get into the "limbo" position in your knee bend /trophjy position
not like you are sitting on a bar stool
the chest up position will help in the chest stretch
(thanks pat dougherty for these ideas and expanations)

Do you really think the "limbo" position thing is a good idea? I feel like I do that on my serve, and lately I've been seriously questioning it. It just doesn't feel like you can be very explosive from that awkward, unbalanced position.

LeeD
12-19-2010, 07:18 PM
Gotta experiment and see what works for you.
Some people need all that twisting, preloading, and stuff to serve hard.
Other's don't.
Try both.

larry10s
12-20-2010, 03:43 AM
Do you really think the "limbo" position thing is a good idea? I feel like I do that on my serve, and lately I've been seriously questioning it. It just doesn't feel like you can be very explosive from that awkward, unbalanced position.

i do think its a good thing. it gets you pointed "up the mountain" combined with archers bow you have chest stretch and trunk stretch and knee bend.
i agree its an awkward position and takes practice.
if you study elite servers most of them are in that position.
on the othe hand if you are familiar with the serve doctor cylinder drill
when i have trouble serving i serve like that to get my rhythm back
at my level(4.0 non pro playing men 35-60) the few less mph i sacrifce by taking the legs out of it i gain in accuracy
when i feel "right " i go back to the limbo

fuzz nation
12-20-2010, 07:01 AM
Can you recommend any drills to work on this "pectoral stretch"?

The idea could be as simple as avoiding the racquet getting sort of scrunched in next to your ear as you wind up toward the ball. Hold it back away from your head at the trophy position so that it has extra room to accelerate. While you don't want your elbow to extend way out beyond 90 degrees before the actual swing up to the ball, try to keep the racquet farther away from you head as you move into your trophy position.

If this makes for a different windup, try to reproduce a smooth swing tempo without swinging at a ball. Once you've got that, look to make that same smoothness when trying to actually hit a serve. Your toss ought to be delayed enough that you don't need to rush the racquet up to the ball.

LeeD
12-20-2010, 12:51 PM
I totally disagree.
Some people need limbo work to get power.
Other people need limited preloading to get power.
Personally, since my toes are 5" away from my fingertips, and my fingertips about 16" apart when I do the flex test (one arm over shoulder, the other under ribcage trying to touch), all that limbo stretchy crap is for girls doing a yoga class.
Of course, I'm kidding a little.
I'm as stiff as StanSmith, so use his motion to produce fast enough serves to impress anyone once they know my age.
Limit your motion, get more control, so you can hit harder more of the time, knowing your serves are going IN.

chico9166
12-20-2010, 02:14 PM
Do you really think the "limbo" position thing is a good idea? I feel like I do that on my serve, and lately I've been seriously questioning it. It just doesn't feel like you can be very explosive from that awkward, unbalanced position.

This is a case of a little is ok, but alot is counter-productive. So I would tend to agree with you. The predominant feature, at the trophy pose is the substantial backward tilt (as seen from the side, "up the mountain") The lateral tilt (left as seen from behind, "limbo") occurs in a much more pronounced way in the backswing, and a result of the change in the torso angle due to hip rotation.

You just won't see much "limbo look" at the trophy stage in elite servers. Take a look at the video.

SystemicAnomaly
12-20-2010, 03:08 PM
I would think that this "limbo" position of the chest would happen after the trophy position -- as the racket head drops to the scratch position.

chico9166
12-20-2010, 03:26 PM
I would think that this "limbo" position of the chest would happen after the trophy position -- as the racket head drops to the scratch position.

Agreed. "As the racquet head drops to the scratch position"=backswing in my terminology. This is where you really see the chest start to point up.(lateral tilt)

LeeD
12-20-2010, 03:55 PM
Chest is pointed up because server delayed dropping his toss hand.
Big arch is great. But don't expect to be doing it at 61.