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View Full Version : Club Player (today) vs. Connors (1975)


TheRebelofPrince
10-19-2009, 04:34 AM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-19-2009, 04:36 AM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!

E P I C F A I L !!!
Connors would trash the club-player.

TheRebelofPrince
10-19-2009, 04:38 AM
not realy, with the new racket technologies against connors with wood, connors would have no chance

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-19-2009, 04:40 AM
not realy, with the new racket technologies against connors with wood, connors would have no chance
You are so wrong, they would probably hit equally hard but Connors was extremely consistent back in the days with second to none errors, the club-player would tear his hair apart out of frustration

jimbo333
10-19-2009, 04:41 AM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!

Yes, jimmoy connors would loose:)

Jimmy Connors however would win very very easily!

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 04:41 AM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!
Um...NO! Connors would neither LOSE nor "LOOSE", because he uses two hands on his backhand so he has a FIRM grip on his racquet. :oops: :-?

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 04:44 AM
not realy, with the new racket technologies against connors with wood, connors would have no chance
Um...first of all, Connors didn't use a wood racquet in 1975. He used a steel Wilson T-2000 and had been for years and for most of his career.

Second of all, even if Connors did use a wood racquet, he would still spank ANY 4.5 player 6-0, 6-0.

jrod
10-19-2009, 04:44 AM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!


Simply by asking this question, you've exposed your total lack of understanding for the professional game.

Welcome to the boards, rookie.

jimbo333
10-19-2009, 04:45 AM
not realy, with the new racket technologies against connors with wood, connors would have no chance

Why would he be using wood?

Connors would be using his metal T2000 surely!

(But he'd win with wood anyway:))

TheRebelofPrince
10-19-2009, 04:46 AM
did i say how connors would loose... nope

jimmy connors would run over to the other side of the net like a little kid and the club player, not as matuer as professionals, would punch him in the head, knocking him unconscious and unable to finish the game, thus forfeiting.. owned

TheRebelofPrince
10-19-2009, 04:47 AM
because if he ever did what he did in match to that guy, by running over and running over the foot mark, i would have honestly punched him

jimbo333
10-19-2009, 04:47 AM
Um...first of all, Connors didn't use a wood racquet in 1975. He used a steel Wilson T-2000 and had been for years and for most of his career.

Second of all, even if Connors did use a wood racquet, he would still spank ANY 4.5 player 6-0, 6-0.

I really need to type quicker:)

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-19-2009, 04:48 AM
did i say how connors would loose... nope

jimmy connors would run over to the other side of the net like a little kid and the club player, not as matuer as professionals, would punch him in the head, knocking him unconscious and unable to finish the game, thus forfeiting.. owned
Ok, thats fantastic.
You should hit the practice-courts instead of sitting here making yourself look like a fool. Or attend grammar-school?

TheRebelofPrince
10-19-2009, 04:50 AM
hehe rofl, i play tennis everyday, trust me i dont need to practice anymore than i already do. im planning to play d2, and tell the truth, if jimmy connors did the same as he did at wimbledon, i believe, by running over the side of the net like a lil kid and cross out the mark, what would you do? I would honestly punch his lights out

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 04:50 AM
did i say how connors would loose... nope

jimmy connors would run over to the other side of the net like a little kid and the club player, not as matuer as professionals, would punch him in the head, knocking him unconscious and unable to finish the game, thus forfeiting.. owned
So what does today's racquet in the hands of the 4.5 player have anything to do with it? :confused:

And why would Connors' "loose"? Did he lose weight so his shorts are too "loose" and would fall down? :oops:

jimbo333
10-19-2009, 04:51 AM
because if he ever did what he did in match to that guy, by running over and running over the foot mark, i would have honestly punched him

And you would have been disqualified!

Connors was the ultimate wind-up merchant at times:twisted:

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 04:53 AM
hehe rofl, i play tennis everyday, trust me i dont need to practice anymore than i already do. im planning to play d2, and tell the truth, if jimmy connors did the same as he did at wimbledon, i believe, by running over the side of the net like a lil kid and cross out the mark, what would you do? I would honestly punch his lights out
Um...the ball doesn't leave a mark on the grass at Wimbledon so there's no mark to cross out.

Get a clue kid. You're all mixed up.

jimbo333
10-19-2009, 04:53 AM
So what does today's racquet in the hands of the 4.5 player have anything to do with it? :confused:

And why would Connors' "loose"? Did he lose weight so his shorts are too "loose" and would fall down? :oops:

I think Connors played with his strings very loose:)

borg number one
10-19-2009, 05:09 AM
Is this a joke? Connors would annihilate a 4.5 player of today playing with wood, a T-2000, or just about any other adult player's racquet in his hands. You folks that keep talking about the players of today vs. players of the 70's and before are truly myopic.

Just watch a little of Connors in 1975 against Rod Laver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SptdffCeVmM

A 4.5 Club Player would barely be able to walk straight between games after about midway through the first set!
He would simply create some very long rallies and run the guy around like a yo yo in the first few games, while ending the rallies with blazing winners. Right about then, the 4.5 player would be "crying uncle" and be at Connors' mercy. The 4.5 player would have a real hard time WINNING GAMES, much less winning a set off of Connors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SptdffCeVmM
(Connors/Laver (Laver about 37 then))


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NPNsU20bis (Connors/Newcombe at the AO)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh76_gnh5sA&NR=1
(Connors/Rosewall (Rosewall past his prime))

1980 French Open (Connors/Noah):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UZSxkpRGMw

The same thing applies if you had a 4.5 (with today's equipment) versus just about any pro from the 1970's. Consistency/stamina/ball placement would trump any "power advantage".

I've seen Connors play live and I can still beat guys that are state ranked and playing 18 and under even today (I'm 41 now), so I have some perspective on this topic.

Do you have any idea how much pace and depth Connors could generate? Do you realize that a 4.5 player would have a very difficult time ever hitting winners against Connors, much less winning rallies? Wow, I am amazed by some of the posts!! Also, why 1975 and not later in the 1970's??

In a fight, I still take Connors, he is one guy that could actually get in a REAL FIGHT on court with the other player, that's how intense the guy was, but it wasn't always a very endearing quality and he loved to use "gamesmanship".

joe sch
10-19-2009, 06:28 AM
OP is a Chopin Clone
JC with wood would win almost every point even if the 4.5 had the doubles lanes

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-19-2009, 06:57 AM
This is the funniest thread I've come across yet -- even better than Īs smoking marijuana a sin?"
It would be over the top if it also was not implicitly trashing one of the greatest players to play the game.
You, OP, need a few lessons in tennis. My suggestion is to spend some money and buy Jimmy's DVDs and learn something instead of trashing the guy.

Don Felder
10-19-2009, 07:03 AM
This is absolutely ********. I'm a 5.0-5.5 player who can wipe the floor with any 4.5 player. I'm not too far out of college tennis, where I was an all-conference/regionally ranked (not even nationally ranked) D3 player four years running. I was good, but plenty of guys were better.

Connors would spank me, let alone the 4.5s I play who can't handle my slice BH, kick serves, or heavy topspin FHs or match my consistency. Give me a break.

EDIT: Keep in mind I was D3! Look at how hard it is for a top-notch D1 player to even make a dent on the pros. Connors was one of the best of all time. The game has changed, but not in a degree that would make an all-time great not be able to play with a club 4.5 player.

TBS
10-19-2009, 08:17 AM
I suspect that there are shots a modern 4.5 player, using current racquets, could make that Jimmy Connors, in 1975, with his T-2000, could not have made. That, however, is quite a different thing from saying that a current 4.5 player could have a prayer of beating 1975 Connors. I think, frankly, that some people fail to appreciate just how good these top pros really are--how consistent, how accurate, how experienced, and how powerful they are.

Greg Moran, author of "Tennis Beyond Big Shots", relates the following story:

"I got my first taste of the pro game in 1984. I had been teaching for a few years and Fred Stolle and Butch Buchholz were coming to the club to promote something or other, and my step-father and I were going to play a doubles match with them for the members.

Now Stolle and Buchholz are two of the games all-time greats but, at the time, were probably thirty years past their prime and almost as many pounds over their playing weight. How good could they be? They walked onto the court, looking like any other 50 year-old players at the club, moving slowly with various braces and supports attached to their elbows and knees. I was in my early 20's, fit and ready to show the "old" guys how the game was played in the "new era." God, was I in for an awakening.

Consistency like I'd never seen. Depth to within six inches of the baseline every time, and the control of concert maestros. It wasn't two games before I found my tiny corner of the court and began praying that they wouldn't hit the ball to me. I covered my small area and 50 something year-old Fred Stolle covered the other 98%, knee braces and all. Great day--thoroughly outclassed by two "old men" well past their prime."

As I said above, there may be some shots a current 4.5 player could make, under certain circumstances at least, that 1975 Connors couldn't. But if you somehow could put those two together for a match, I'd say "good luck" to the 4.5 player finding any chance to use any of those modern shots. I think he'd be lucky to score more than a point or two against someone like prime Connors, whatever Connors was using, his T-2000 or a 50-cent wood racquet from K-mart.

jrepac
10-19-2009, 08:49 AM
1975 Connors would lose to a 4.5 player today? uh...not gonna happen
doubtful even a 2009 Connors would lose...
and, as all have said, he played w/the T-2000, a steel racket, not wood

the incident w/erasing the mark, I believe was 1975 USO against the Italian fellow Corrado Barruzi (sp??).....have seen that clip before...makes me laugh, honestly, but not very sportsmanlike on Jimmy's part (shocking, huh?)

goober
10-19-2009, 09:28 AM
You guys are all haters. This guy knows what he is talking about. I mean check out these stats:

Im a senior in high school whose thinking abou tplaying at a d3 or d2 level in college, i didnt play on the team last two years because my heart wasn't realy into tennis then, i regained my love of tennis during the summer and have been practicing and training ever since. Im an defensive baseliner/counter puncher, who has a ken rosewall slice backhand return of serve. These are my stats

Serve-6.5/10 (better placement then power)
Forehand-8.5/10 (slive-7/10)
backhand-8/10 (Slice-9/10)
Volley-7/10
Returns-BH-9/10 (slice master)
FH-8/10
Conditioning-7/10
Heart-10/10 ( I NEVER GIVE UP!)

More to come later

Would i make it in collegiate tennis?


The dude has 10/10 heart and never gives up (except for the last 2 years when he didn't play on his team because his heart wasn't into it). But he is still going D2 all the way. A lot of D2 colleges will be salivating at that 9/10 slice.

JoshDragon
10-19-2009, 09:38 AM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!

No, he wouldn't beat Jimmy. He would maybe take a game at best but that's it. There's a world of difference between a 4.5 and a guy who was #1 in the world. Even with the slower rallies and crappy technology Jimmy would easily win.

drakulie
10-19-2009, 09:40 AM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!

only thing Connors would lose is the 10 minutes he wastes beating the club player 6-0, 6-0.

BHud
10-19-2009, 09:44 AM
The poster must be a newbie 2.5 player with no understanding of levels of play...Conners would easily win 6-0, 6-0 with just his consistency and conditioning. That's not even taking into consideration his mental toughness. The poster confuses a few great shots against a ball machine with actual match play skill...

JoshDragon
10-19-2009, 09:46 AM
hehe rofl, i play tennis everyday, trust me i dont need to practice anymore than i already do. im planning to play d2, and tell the truth, if jimmy connors did the same as he did at wimbledon, i believe, by running over the side of the net like a lil kid and cross out the mark, what would you do? I would honestly punch his lights out

I love playing everyday too and I'm young like you are and I still know that you wouldn't have a chance to beat old man Connors today let alone 1975 Jimmy.

mtr1
10-19-2009, 09:47 AM
Wasn't there a thread like this a few months back when the general opinion was that Chris Evert would beat a 4.5 easily, but now Connors is losing to one? Has the OP seen Connors play?

drakulie
10-19-2009, 10:06 AM
^^^Actually, it was about Evert. However, the argument was a 4.5 could beat her too.

Rabbit
10-19-2009, 10:17 AM
Even with a replaced hip, Connors would school anyone with an NTRP rating.

jrepac
10-19-2009, 10:21 AM
I suspect that there are shots a modern 4.5 player, using current racquets, could make that Jimmy Connors, in 1975, with his T-2000, could not have made. That, however, is quite a different thing from saying that a current 4.5 player could have a prayer of beating 1975 Connors. I think, frankly, that some people fail to appreciate just how good these top pros really are--how consistent, how accurate, how experienced, and how powerful they are.

Greg Moran, author of "Tennis Beyond Big Shots", relates the following story:

"I got my first taste of the pro game in 1984. I had been teaching for a few years and Fred Stolle and Butch Buchholz were coming to the club to promote something or other, and my step-father and I were going to play a doubles match with them for the members.

Now Stolle and Buchholz are two of the games all-time greats but, at the time, were probably thirty years past their prime and almost as many pounds over their playing weight. How good could they be? They walked onto the court, looking like any other 50 year-old players at the club, moving slowly with various braces and supports attached to their elbows and knees. I was in my early 20's, fit and ready to show the "old" guys how the game was played in the "new era." God, was I in for an awakening.

Consistency like I'd never seen. Depth to within six inches of the baseline every time, and the control of concert maestros. It wasn't two games before I found my tiny corner of the court and began praying that they wouldn't hit the ball to me. I covered my small area and 50 something year-old Fred Stolle covered the other 98%, knee braces and all. Great day--thoroughly outclassed by two "old men" well past their prime."

.

Terrific story....drives the point home, 4 sure! LOL!

TheRebelofPrince
10-19-2009, 10:26 AM
dude if connors would try to return/block a serve hit by a modern racket his racket would just break, i work in a proshop and i;ve tried to hit with an old jimmy connors racket once, the racket on my first shot hittign it lightly, almost broke in half

GS
10-19-2009, 10:27 AM
I saw Connors play one of his last Senior's matches about 8 years ago against McEnroe. They were pretty even until Mac ran Jimmy ragged, running him all over the court, and out of breath. Connors used the Prince Mono, and still does, so I think only a 5.5 would do okay against him. Don't think so? A friend of mine was the top 50s Open player in the country for years. I saw him play a top player on the Stanford team back then---he beat the kid, but it took 3 sets.

mtr1
10-19-2009, 10:27 AM
dude if connors would try to return/block a serve hit by a modern racket his racket would just break, i work in a proshop and i;ve tried to hit with an old jimmy connors racket once, the racket on my first shot hittign it lightly, almost broke in half

Yes but since when have you had the ability of Jimmy Connors?

drakulie
10-19-2009, 10:31 AM
dude if connors would try to return/block a serve hit by a modern racket his racket would just break,

No, it wouldn't.

i work in a proshop

No, you don't.

and i;ve tried to hit with an old jimmy connors racket once,

No, you haven't.

the racket on my first shot hittign it lightly, almost broke in half

No, it didn't.

mtr1
10-19-2009, 10:35 AM
No, it wouldn't.



No, you don't.



No, you haven't.



No, it didn't.

:):):):) 10char

Bud
10-19-2009, 10:50 AM
did i say how connors would loose... nope

jimmy connors would run over to the other side of the net like a little kid and the club player, not as matuer as professionals, would punch him in the head, knocking him unconscious and unable to finish the game, thus forfeiting.. owned

dude if connors would try to return/block a serve hit by a modern racket his racket would just break, i work in a proshop and i;ve tried to hit with an old jimmy connors racket once, the racket on my first shot hittign it lightly, almost broke in half

dude if connors would try to return/block a serve hit by a modern racket his racket would just break, i work in a proshop and i;ve tried to hit with an old jimmy connors racket once, the racket on my first shot hittign it lightly, almost broke in half

:roll::roll::roll:

You posts deserve the (dreaded) triple eye-roll :wink:

EKnee08
10-19-2009, 11:36 AM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!

Ridiculous thought. Jimmy is one of the all time greats. I will admit that even though I have never been one of his biggest fans. The problem today is that younger fans do not understand the history of the game.

Jimmy played w/ a T2000 in 1975. When he made his last run to the US Open semis he had switched to a "yellow" graphite, which at the time was an unidentified model. He did this at age 39.

However, in 1975 when he lost to Ashe in a great upset in the Wimbledon finals, he was what something like 20, 21 years old. Buy that DVD or watch the match on Tennis Channel. It was on a few weeks ago. Yes, the game was slower but he was awesome! He was considered the best returner in the history of the game until Agassi came along. Always extremely mentally tough! No 4.5 could beat him today against his 1975 self.

Also remember he was hitting with a two hander (although flat), when many in the game still hit a one-hander. What if he adapted his technique?

Another thought- see the old Mark Philopoussis/ Tennis magazine article, when Mark hit serves with all the different racquet compositions and technologies. Mark's serve was not significantly faster with the latest technology vs. wood- it ther was no significant difference in mph with wood and his own graphite but was more accurate and consistent with the wood!

TourTenor
10-19-2009, 11:51 AM
dude if connors would try to return/block a serve hit by a modern racket his racket would just break, i work in a proshop and i;ve tried to hit with an old jimmy connors racket once, the racket on my first shot hittign it lightly, almost broke in half
Sorry, your boasts don't cut it. The difference being ... Connors returns would consistently hit the sweet zone on the strings. By your description, you took your first shot and and framing it, badly.:rolleyes:

SourStraws
10-19-2009, 12:04 PM
Well...Ive played with a wooden racquet and it's a little different from the racquets used today and I hit pretty well with it, but if you think that Connors would lose playing with a wood racquet to a 4.5....You're ridiculous...

Some people on this board are ridiculous...

S.S.

theZig
10-19-2009, 12:27 PM
Successful troll is successful.

UsualSuspect
10-19-2009, 12:38 PM
Connors would bagel and might even win a golden set in the process.

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 12:38 PM
dude if connors would try to return/block a serve hit by a modern racket his racket would just break, i work in a proshop and i;ve tried to hit with an old jimmy connors racket once, the racket on my first shot hittign it lightly, almost broke in half
Um....NO. Connors played against guys with huge serves back in his prime and his racquet never broke. Roscoe Tanner used to serve in the 130's mph back in the Connors era. That's much faster than anyone you personally know can serve with any modern racquet.

Mick
10-19-2009, 12:41 PM
jimmy connors is overkill.
even tracy austin would trash a 4.5 (self-rated) club player

Claudius
10-19-2009, 12:43 PM
Connors would destroy a 4.5 player.

topsltennis
10-19-2009, 12:45 PM
I would love to see the OP get his butt kicked by Connors right now and then have Connors punch him afterwards. What a clown you are.

goober
10-19-2009, 01:16 PM
I am amazed by how many people think that 4.5 club players actually represents some kind of high level of tennis. It is good recreational level tennis. 7.0 players of any era are 5 NTRP levels above them. People are not going to maken up 5 NTRP levels with poly strings and "modern" strokes

Rabbit
10-19-2009, 01:28 PM
Im a senior in high school whose thinking abou tplaying at a d3 or d2 level in college, i didnt play on the team last two years because my heart wasn't realy into tennis then, i regained my love of tennis during the summer and have been practicing and training ever since. Im an defensive baseliner/counter puncher, who has a ken rosewall slice backhand return of serve. These are my stats

For the record, Connors beat Rosewall in 1974 at Wimbledon 6-1, 6-1, 6-4. Later that year, he again beat Rosewall in the finals of the US Open 6-1,6-0,6-1. I don't know that a "rosewall slice backhand return of serve" would impress him much.


Serve-6.5/10 (better placement then power)
Forehand-8.5/10 (slive-7/10)
backhand-8/10 (Slice-9/10)
Volley-7/10
Returns-BH-9/10 (slice master)
FH-8/10
Conditioning-7/10
Heart-10/10 ( I NEVER GIVE UP!)

And 10 is based on??????


More to come later


I can hardly wait!


dude if connors would try to return/block a serve hit by a modern racket his racket would just break, i work in a proshop and i;ve tried to hit with an old jimmy connors racket once, the racket on my first shot hittign it lightly, almost broke in half

Sorry, but I've played a year of league a few years ago at the 4.5 level with some 25 year old Head Vilas wood frames. None are the worse for wear today. I also own 3 T2000's. They don't "break in half" as they are extruded steel. You must have found an old Wal Mart Jimmy Connors Champ or some other piece of crap $2 racquet. The real deal is still as playable (or not) as it was in 1974.

And remember that Connors played against some 120 - 140 MPH serves back in the 70s with the T2000. Over the years, not once did I ever see one of them break.


hehe rofl, i play tennis everyday, trust me i dont need to practice anymore than i already do. im planning to play d2, and tell the truth, if jimmy connors did the same as he did at wimbledon, i believe, by running over the side of the net like a lil kid and cross out the mark, what would you do? I would honestly punch his lights out

Sorry, but the incident you're referring to happened not at Wimbledon, but at the U.S. Open on Har-Tru. Connors is good, but not good enough to wipe out a mark on grass.

JeMar
10-19-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm sure this is a joke thread, but just in case it's not... 50-something Connors with a wooden racquet would rock the bejesus out of a 5.0. The length of his shots alone would prove too much for a 5.0 to handle. Watch some of his matches, the guy seldom hit a ball less than 2 feet from the baseline unless he was trying to open up the court by going for an angle.

JoshDragon
10-19-2009, 05:55 PM
I'm sure this is a joke thread, but just in case it's not... 50-something Connors with a wooden racquet would rock the bejesus out of a 5.0. The length of his shots alone would prove too much for a 5.0 to handle. Watch some of his matches, the guy seldom hit a ball less than 2 feet from the baseline unless he was trying to open up the court by going for an angle.

I think a 5.5 could beat 50+ year old Connors, assuming that Connors was using wood and the 5.5 was using a regular racquet.

BreakPoint
10-19-2009, 06:27 PM
I think a 5.5 could beat 50+ year old Connors, assuming that Connors was using wood and the 5.5 was using a regular racquet.
The 5.5 might only win if Connors was using a ping pong paddle and could only hit one-handed backhands (since the handle on the ping pong paddle is too short for two hands), and even then that's a big MAYBE. :shock:

Chadwixx
10-19-2009, 07:06 PM
It's crossed my mind when I watch connors. I kind of lick my chops

JoshDragon
10-20-2009, 11:29 AM
The 5.5 might only win if Connors was using a ping pong paddle and could only hit one-handed backhands (since the handle on the ping pong paddle is too short for two hands), and even then that's a big MAYBE. :shock:

No, because a 5.5 is a very good player. Almost a pro level player. I think a physically strong 5.5 with the current technology would be able to beat Jimmy who is decades past his prime and would be playing with wood. At 57 Jimmy is not going to have the same ability to run down the balls.

BreakPoint
10-20-2009, 12:10 PM
No, because a 5.5 is a very good player. Almost a pro level player. I think a physically strong 5.5 with the current technology would be able to beat Jimmy who is decades past his prime and would be playing with wood. At 57 Jimmy is not going to have the same ability to run down the balls.
A 5.5 is NOT "almost a pro level player". A 5.5 is not even a top Div. 1 college player, and pros are way, way above college players.

And Connors is not just a typical pro. He was ranked #1 for more weeks than anyone except Sampras, and for more weeks than Federer. He has 109 singles titles which is much, much more than anyone and which will never be surpassed, not even by Federer.

So you're talking about one of the best players ever to walk the planet versus a guy who can't even make a Div. 1 college team. Sorry, but no contest.

jrepac
10-20-2009, 12:53 PM
this idea that a club player is going to beat a 57 year old connors, let alone 1975 jimmy is absurd

have any of these fantasy-land posters seen Jimmy hitting the ball over the last few years??? Post hip replacement?

He's been out hitting at the last few USO's and he is clearly fit and his shots are quite good

his mobility may not be what it once was, but the ground-stroking ability he has is still quite amazing...

I don't see how a non-pro could keep up...but, I don't have the nuanced understanding of 4.5's/5's/5.5s vs. pros that others seem to have here...just watching and applying some common sense

JoshDragon
10-20-2009, 05:16 PM
A 5.5 is NOT "almost a pro level player". A 5.5 is not even a top Div. 1 college player, and pros are way, way above college players.

And Connors is not just a typical pro. He was ranked #1 for more weeks than anyone except Sampras, and for more weeks than Federer. He has 109 singles titles which is much, much more than anyone and which will never be surpassed, not even by Federer.

So you're talking about one of the best players ever to walk the planet versus a guy who can't even make a Div. 1 college team. Sorry, but no contest.

Wait, what?!!:-? Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 6.0 NTRP be good enough to turn pro? So if a 5.5 is one level behind that, wouldn't they almost be at the pro level.

ninman
10-20-2009, 05:49 PM
to answer this question no, no, a thousand times no.

If you want proof Andry Murray at 17, professionally ranked, up and coming, later the same year made the final of the thailand masters, giving Federer (2005 Federer) a run for his money, and the following defeating Federer.

This player, played Macenroe in a 1 set shoot out, and lost 6-1. Yes a late 40's early 50's Jmac defeated 17 year old up and coming Andry Murray, who only 1 year later was able to defeat Roger Federer. I'm sorry but if Jmac can do that to a player with a professional ranking, and way above average talent, then both he and Connors would barely lose points against amateurs, any amateur, even using a wooden raquet.

In fact you would have to give them wooden raquets, to try and make it a more even contest.

BreakPoint
10-20-2009, 05:49 PM
Wait, what?!!:-? Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 6.0 NTRP be good enough to turn pro? So if a 5.5 is one level behind that, wouldn't they almost be at the pro level.
An ATP pro is a 7.0. A 6.0 is a Div. 1 college player. The very top college players can be 6.5's.

CyBorg
10-20-2009, 06:22 PM
One of Chopin's alt accounts. Sounds a lot like him.

downthewall
10-20-2009, 06:38 PM
someone told me that Jimmy lost 8-6 in a proset against a very good 5.0 player in south Fl 2 years ago. Not sure if he was playing seriously or not though. prob not.

doom
10-20-2009, 07:21 PM
I recently saw a few matches at a local Open tournament and an old guy in his 50's beat this highly ranked (top 100 nationally) 16 year old 6-1 6-1 while using a wooden racket.

I doubt connors would lose more than a handful of points

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-20-2009, 07:23 PM
jimmy connors is overkill.
even tracy austin would trash a 4.5 (self-rated) club player

Even? Tracy is one of the greats. Her career was cut short by injury; but she showed what she oculd do when she was in the best of form. I adore Tracy Austin. Always have. Always will.

Mick
10-20-2009, 07:50 PM
Even? Tracy is one of the greats. Her career was cut short by injury; but she showed what she oculd do when she was in the best of form. I adore Tracy Austin. Always have. Always will.

yep "even" because the gap in ability between connors and austin is quite big :)

tracy austin with a 65 sq-in wood racquet would easily beat the today's 4.5 club player with the latest racquet.

Swissv2
10-20-2009, 07:53 PM
Here's an easy way to look at this.

Take all the videos of proven 4.5 NTRP Players and compare it to just one Connors video from 1975.

Connors would spank that 4.5 player - hard - on the bum, and we would all smell bagels and breadsticks cooking before the end of the game.

JoshDragon
10-20-2009, 07:57 PM
An ATP pro is a 7.0. A 6.0 is a Div. 1 college player. The very top college players can be 6.5's.

No, I don't mean an ATP level pro, I was referring to a challenger or futures level.

JoshDragon
10-20-2009, 08:02 PM
Here's an easy way to look at this.

Take all the videos of proven 4.5 NTRP Players and compare it to just one Connors video from 1975.

Connors would spank that 4.5 player - hard - on the bum, and we would all smell bagels and breadsticks cooking before the end of the game.

:shock::confused:http://www.lcvg.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley_puke2.gif...sorry about that. :twisted:

Mick
10-20-2009, 08:09 PM
Here's an easy way to look at this.

Take all the videos of proven 4.5 NTRP Players and compare it to just one Connors video from 1975.

Connors would spank that 4.5 player - hard - on the bum, and we would all smell bagels and breadsticks cooking before the end of the game.

even the pros had problem with connors' ball. he hit it so hard and flat and could cover the net really well and he's a lefty. all that combination is too much even for a higher level player to handle.

BreakPoint
10-20-2009, 08:15 PM
No, I don't mean an ATP level pro, I was referring to a challenger or futures level.
Many guys on the ATP Tour also play Challengers sometimes, so challenger level is also 7.0. Futures level is closer to 6.5. So a 5.5 is nowhere near pro level. And Connors is one of the greatest tennis players who ever lived.

BTW, did you see doom's post above? A Top 100 nationally ranked 16 year-old is probably close to a 5.5 player, and he lost to some nobody in his 50's who was using a wood racquet, 6-1, 6-1. Now imagine what Connors would do to him not only with a wood racquet but with a ping pong paddle. :shock:
I recently saw a few matches at a local Open tournament and an old guy in his 50's beat this highly ranked (top 100 nationally) 16 year old 6-1 6-1 while using a wooden racket.

I doubt connors would lose more than a handful of points

BorisBeckerFan
10-20-2009, 09:11 PM
1975 Jimmy Connors would kick the snacks out of a current 4.5 player. This thread topic is an insult, comparing a not just a proffesional but a Multi Slam Champion to 4.5 hack. No insult intended to 4.5 players but that's not even a high recreational level. I mean geez, you don't even have to be a good athelete to be a 4.5. That's like highschool tennis and not even good highschool tennis at that.

Winners or Errors
10-21-2009, 05:01 AM
Did anyone notice that the OP has something like 14 posts? Why are there four pages of troll feeding here?

Maybe the guy is clueless, but seriously, if it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it's probably a duck.

beckstennis
10-21-2009, 06:24 AM
The OP is just insane ( or maybe a kid of 12 ) , sorry but Connors could play righthanded with a spoon and still bagel a 4.5 club player !

ninman
10-21-2009, 06:45 AM
The OP is just insane ( or maybe a kid of 12 ) , sorry but Connors could play righthanded with a spoon and still bagel a 4.5 club player !

Totally, you know every year Andy Roddick plays a club player, and to make it fair he uses a frying pan as a racquet. Every year, the A Rod wins. So if Andy Roddick can beat club players with a frying pan, I'm betting that Connors of 1975 would thoroughly own club players, even if he himself was using a frying pan.

Perry the Platypus
10-21-2009, 06:56 AM
Not sure where to start with the foolishness in the OP.

1) 4.5 is not "average" for club play. Most club players never get to 4.5. Despite the rumors on the board to the contrary, that is very high recreational play. Doesn't mean excellent players - still a far way off from the 5.5 to 6.0 play, which itself is a far way off from an ATP pro - but very, very good on the overall bell curve of tennis......

2) Connors would own 4.5 to 5.0 players with wood or his t-2000.

I play in a wood racquet tournament every year and we are always amazed by how much we can do with the wood. A player with proper strokes is still outstanding even with wood. I would say most people could beat folks .5 to maybe 1.0 higher on the NTRP scale with new technology vs. wood.

MichaelChang
10-21-2009, 07:50 AM
read this.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=291604

jrepac
10-21-2009, 07:51 AM
Totally, you know every year Andy Roddick plays a club player, and to make it fair he uses a frying pan as a racquet. Every year, the A Rod wins. So if Andy Roddick can beat club players with a frying pan, I'm betting that Connors of 1975 would thoroughly own club players, even if he himself was using a frying pan.

Is this true? I would love to see the video...LOL!

sureshs
10-21-2009, 07:54 AM
I was watching a replay of the senior dubs event in Arizona with Arias, Courier, Pernfors and Phillipousis, and Arias (today) looked no better than a 4.5 player.

jrepac
10-21-2009, 07:55 AM
Not sure where to start with the foolishness in the OP.

1) 4.5 is not "average" for club play. Most club players never get to 4.5. Despite the rumors on the board to the contrary, that is very high recreational play. Doesn't mean excellent players - still a far way off from the 5.5 to 6.0 play, which itself is a far way off from an ATP pro - but very, very good on the overall bell curve of tennis......

2) Connors would own 4.5 to 5.0 players with wood or his t-2000.

I play in a wood racquet tournament every year and we are always amazed by how much we can do with the wood. A player with proper strokes is still outstanding even with wood. I would say most people could beat folks .5 to maybe 1.0 higher on the NTRP scale with new technology vs. wood.

I was thinking the same thing....but this thread of posts has gotten a bit confusing re: 4.0/4.5/5.0 and higher.....had always viewed 4.5 as a pretty darn good recreational player...but nowhere near pro

It has been many years since I've played w/a wood racquet, but I did like them a lot.....you felt like you were "cupping" the ball in the strings, as opposed to it shooting off them like a cannon.....maybe Prince can bring back the infamous Woodie....

Mick
10-21-2009, 08:18 AM
I was watching a replay of the senior dubs event in Arizona with Arias, Courier, Pernfors and Phillipousis, and Arias (today) looked no better than a 4.5 player.

if a world class 7.0 player would drop to 4.5 as he reaches middle age, imagine what would happen to a 4.5 player -- he would play like a beginner :shock:

sureshs
10-21-2009, 08:35 AM
if a world class 7.0 player would drop to 4.5 as he reaches middle age, imagine what would happen to a 4.5 player -- he would play like a beginner :shock:

That was my point - was he ever a 7.0 player?

Even his serve technique seemed to suck.

I understand that these are semi-fun tourneys and there is a lot of banter and audience participation going on, but the fundamentals should still shine through if they were really there, isn't it?

When I watch old matches, what is more shocking than the lack of speed or spin is the possibility that the technique was flawed. Consider Borg's backhand - the way he used to let go of the left hand. He has now changed it for the exo matches, or so I read. Can you imagine someone today being competitive with such a flawed technique?

Mick
10-21-2009, 08:47 AM
That was my point - was he ever a 7.0 player?

Even his serve technique seemed to suck.

I understand that these are semi-fun tourneys and there is a lot of banter and audience participation going on, but the fundamentals should still shine through if they were really there, isn't it?

When I watch old matches, what is more shocking than the lack of speed or spin is the possibility that the technique was flawed. Consider Borg's backhand - the way he used to let go of the left hand. He has now changed it for the exo matches, or so I read. Can you imagine someone today being competitive with such a flawed technique?

i read that borg taught himself tennis and that backhand stroke came from ice hockey. it's very unorthodox, nobody else could hit that backhand successfully.

i think when high level players play against each other, they look average but when high level players play against lower level players, they look like high level players. the reason being when you play against someone at the same level, you cannot put away the ball in the same fashion that you could when you play against a lower level player.

EKnee08
10-21-2009, 09:04 AM
Not sure where to start with the foolishness in the OP.

1) 4.5 is not "average" for club play. Most club players never get to 4.5. Despite the rumors on the board to the contrary, that is very high recreational play. Doesn't mean excellent players - still a far way off from the 5.5 to 6.0 play, which itself is a far way off from an ATP pro - but very, very good on the overall bell curve of tennis......

2) Connors would own 4.5 to 5.0 players with wood or his t-2000.

I play in a wood racquet tournament every year and we are always amazed by how much we can do with the wood. A player with proper strokes is still outstanding even with wood. I would say most people could beat folks .5 to maybe 1.0 higher on the NTRP scale with new technology vs. wood.

yes, see the old tennis magazine article from the late 90s when they had Phillipousis serve with wood and newest technology frames.

LolzWhat?
10-21-2009, 09:23 AM
The club player of today will run circles around Connors. Dont get me wrong, Connors was the man. but the astro psychics that goes into making today's racket has led to talentless clowns such as Federer and Nadal winning majors left and right. Take their rackets away and these guys wont even make it on a high school team.

Marius_Hancu
10-21-2009, 09:32 AM
You have no idea how stupid your question is, mate, you don't know what the pro game is, what touch and reactions, or what error percentage, those guys have or had.

I saw a former Egyptian Davis Cup player, 20 years past his glory, running circles around the best amateurs years ago in Toronto.

Connors by far.

Anyway, nonsensical, where do you get the 1975 Connors these days?

Dilettante
10-21-2009, 10:14 AM
Anyway, nonsensical, where do you get the 1975 Connors these days?

With the racquets. According to the OP, anything is possible with the new racquet technology, so, why don't just clone 1975 Connors. Or 1700 Isaac Newton.. I need to make my math homework.

jrepac
10-21-2009, 10:50 AM
When I watch old matches, what is more shocking than the lack of speed or spin is the possibility that the technique was flawed. Consider Borg's backhand - the way he used to let go of the left hand. He has now changed it for the exo matches, or so I read. Can you imagine someone today being competitive with such a flawed technique?

Um...I think quite a lot of people would love to have Borg's "flawed" technique on the backhand....I certainly would...I remember trying to hit like him when I was learning the game and gave up; easier to mimic Connors or Chrissie...

I also think some of you are mislead when you say there is a lack of speed or spin on the older matches. Perhaps not as much topspin, generally speaking, but lots of spin was used by various players. Grass courters more likely to play slice and the clay courters tended to use top, like Vilas for instance. Borg had a good among of top on the ball as well. But there was quite a lot of spin used in the game, I'd say at least more variety of spin back then.

Even Connors, whose ball appears very, very flat (relative to others) is not completely w/out spin on it...this is something of a mis-perception over the years. His shots clear the net by several feet, in truth. Just not as much as the guys hitting w/top.

Re: speed, some of the video you may have seen on you tube and such is not very good, frankly. For example, if you happen to watch some of the 76 USO final between Borg and Connors, on green clay, from half-decent video, you'd be surprised how hard Jimmy is hitting and how fast the ball is moving; with Bjorn tracking it like a demon. They may not be clubbing each and every ball (like some of today's players), but it's not quite as "slow" as you'd like to believe.

Inner Game
10-21-2009, 03:40 PM
take todays averagely good club player around a 4.5 with todays rackets and put ihm against jimmoy connors, connors would LOOSE!!!

Connors could use the butt end of a racquet and beat a 4.5 player...lol

I do love your style thou....get the sheepeople to speak...bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

BreakPoint
10-21-2009, 04:07 PM
The OP is just insane ( or maybe a kid of 12 ) , sorry but Connors could play righthanded with a spoon and still bagel a 4.5 club player !
Well, I don't know about a spoon, but definitely with a ping pong paddle. :)

topseed
10-21-2009, 05:00 PM
if a world class 7.0 player would drop to 4.5 as he reaches middle age, imagine what would happen to a 4.5 player -- he would play like a beginner :shock:

It depends but still the ex-pro will have an edge due to experience. But who knows...with todays technology and technique, the 4.5 club player might have a chance. :)

BreakPoint
10-21-2009, 07:42 PM
That was my point - was he ever a 7.0 player?

Even his serve technique seemed to suck.

I understand that these are semi-fun tourneys and there is a lot of banter and audience participation going on, but the fundamentals should still shine through if they were really there, isn't it?

When I watch old matches, what is more shocking than the lack of speed or spin is the possibility that the technique was flawed. Consider Borg's backhand - the way he used to let go of the left hand. He has now changed it for the exo matches, or so I read. Can you imagine someone today being competitive with such a flawed technique?
Of course Jimmy Arias was a 7.0. He won 5 singles titles on the ATP Tour.

There are plenty of guys currently on the ATP Tour who have never won even a single title. In fact, most guys in the Top 100 have never won a title.

Carsomyr
10-21-2009, 08:34 PM
:lol:

5-star thread.

Totally, you know every year Andy Roddick plays a club player, and to make it fair he uses a frying pan as a racquet. Every year, the A Rod wins. So if Andy Roddick can beat club players with a frying pan, I'm betting that Connors of 1975 would thoroughly own club players, even if he himself was using a frying pan.

He does this every year now? I thought he did it first because of the Todd Gallagher book and then the special contest conducted by ESPN, but I didn't know he's still doing it.

JeMar
10-21-2009, 08:36 PM
That was my point - was he ever a 7.0 player?

Even his serve technique seemed to suck.

I understand that these are semi-fun tourneys and there is a lot of banter and audience participation going on, but the fundamentals should still shine through if they were really there, isn't it?

When I watch old matches, what is more shocking than the lack of speed or spin is the possibility that the technique was flawed. Consider Borg's backhand - the way he used to let go of the left hand. He has now changed it for the exo matches, or so I read. Can you imagine someone today being competitive with such a flawed technique?

Jimmy Arias is actually one of the developers of the modern game.

That's just disrespectful. :(

In this picture, Arias would be like the third guy from the left if we were talking about the modern game being based around a big forehand.

http://www.wpclipart.com/world_history/ape_man_evolution.png

crash1929
10-21-2009, 08:43 PM
0-0, connors.

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-22-2009, 07:17 AM
Ok, thats fantastic.
You should hit the practice-courts instead of sitting here making yourself look like a fool. Or attend grammar-school?

Heh.

10 laughs

pundekman
10-22-2009, 07:59 AM
:lol:

5-star thread.



He does this every year now? I thought he did it first because of the Todd Gallagher book and then the special contest conducted by ESPN, but I didn't know he's still doing it.

But that guy that Andy played using a frying pan on ESPN was not even a club player. He was a beginner!

If 4.5 is not even college D1 then no way in hell a 4.5 can beat Connors 75. Not even Connors 2009! This is not just about equipment but the way Connors will compete.

Ano
10-22-2009, 07:03 PM
OP, Martina Hingis (1994) or Anna Kournikova (1994) could beat today 4.5 male player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKbWbjRQPWQ

If prime Connors played modern 4.5 male player, the 4.5 player would be very lucky to get 2 points in a set.

Ano
10-22-2009, 07:10 PM
Btw, in 2004, John McEnroe played a singles match against James Kaplan.

James Kaplan was co-author of John's book "YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS".

James considered himself a 4-4.5 player.

Guess the result !! James only got 1 point in that match by a lucky ace.

James said it only took 5 seconds in the warm up to make him realized, that John hit much harder and with much more spin that he previously thought.

Enlightened Coelacanth
10-22-2009, 07:17 PM
What an asinine premise. Easily 90% of what you do on a tennis court is accomplished with your legs and brain. The racquet is the last, and weakest, link in that chain.
Why would a club player, with his space aged Babolat, have a prayer against the best player in the world (for his time)?

It's a laugh.

Ano
10-22-2009, 07:18 PM
read this.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=291604

Btw, my friend in that video often said that he would be competitive if he played prime Borg with a wooden racket.

He said with his modern racket and luxilon string, he would give Borg trouble.

I only smiled and shook my head.

doom
10-22-2009, 07:19 PM
Many guys on the ATP Tour also play Challengers sometimes, so challenger level is also 7.0. Futures level is closer to 6.5. So a 5.5 is nowhere near pro level. And Connors is one of the greatest tennis players who ever lived.

BTW, did you see doom's post above? A Top 100 nationally ranked 16 year-old is probably close to a 5.5 player, and he lost to some nobody in his 50's who was using a wood racquet, 6-1, 6-1. Now imagine what Connors would do to him not only with a wood racquet but with a ping pong paddle. :shock:

I'm pretty sure the 50 year old was an ex pro, but nobody I recognized. The guy just never missed a ball and placed everything close to the corners and came into the net whenever he had the edge in a rally. It was beautiful to watch really, how this dude covered the court so easily and anticipated everything so quickly. He never bothered scrambling for anything, and he rarely moved beyond the pace of a quick jog. If the kid hit a winner he would just concede it.

The kid had some nice strokes and quite a bit of fire power when he had the chance to unload. The problem was he only got a short ball or a ball he could really swing at maybe once a game. The old dude just kept everything out of his hitting zone and kept everything either really deep or really low. The old guy just sliced all the kids serves low over the net on the return, and the old guy must have served at about 80% first serves the whole match and placed them all over the box. I didnt see the old guy hit 1 winner from the baseline in the set and half I saw, all his points were either won on volleys or forced or unforced errors from the kid.

Imagine what Connors, with his powerful groundstrokes, would manage to do to a 4.5. The 4.5 really would just be totally outclassed.

flyinghippos101
10-22-2009, 07:20 PM
What an asinine premise. Easily 90% of what you do on a tennis court is accomplished with your legs and brain. The racquet is the last, and weakest, link in that chain.
Why would a club player, with his space aged Babolat, have a prayer against the best player in the world (for his time)?

It's a laugh.

Wow, is this the first time you posted something that WASN'T on rants and raves?

doom
10-22-2009, 07:24 PM
Take a look at this thread people:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=294229

This guy is in his 50's and wins 5.0 tournaments and double bagels 4.5's.

He is certainly no Jimmy Connors.

Datacipher
10-22-2009, 07:40 PM
amazed by how much we can do with the wood. A player with proper strokes is still outstanding even with wood. I would say most people could beat folks .5 to maybe 1.0 higher on the NTRP scale with new technology vs. wood.

Ah good! I get ridiculed a lot for saying this...even had kids say "have you ever played with wood?!"

Yes, the better you are, the less wood (or anything else) affects you! MAYBE I drop .5 a level with a good wood, once I adjust....probably more like .25! I can also hit ANY shot with wood that I can hit with graphite, though it's harder (you must have better hand-eye etc). The only exception might be some emergency/desperation shots, where the stiffness and lightness of the modern racquet can give you some power you can't generate with mechanics...but in fact, those shots don't occur all that often for the good player...not if your footwork and speed are there! In most cases, you won't lose to somebody a level or 2 below you because of a few of these emergency shots.

Datacipher
10-22-2009, 07:57 PM
Of course Jimmy Arias was a 7.0. He won 5 singles titles on the ATP Tour.

There are plenty of guys currently on the ATP Tour who have never won even a single title. In fact, most guys in the Top 100 have never won a title.

Arias didn't quite have enough game to beat the big boys, but he got near the top briefly....far better than almost anyone in this world can claim. But he had wins over guys like: IVANSEVIC, AGASSI, BECKER!

It wasn't even that long ago! He beat Gomez, who handed Agassi his hat and stomped on it, in the FO final. He played even with Arias model 2 (Krickstein - who also beat many of the next gen pros eg. Agassi, Edberg, Sampras etc).