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majordude
10-19-2009, 07:53 PM
I used to play tennis in high school but that's it. My last racket was either a Head or Puma (did they make rackets?) white wood and slightly warped. I was told it was expensive when originally purchased.

Anyway, I've been walking the dog a lot trying to lose weight and every time I passed the tennis courts I thought to myself, hell, I can do that.

Anyway, two days ago I bought a Wilson Zen 103 Team for $79 on sale at Sports Authority. Maybe a lot of people laugh at "off the shelf" pre-strung sticks but this thing (seems) nice but what do I know.

I've spent the last two days using an outdoor handball court for practice. If I were to guess I'd say I'm a 4 out of 10 in terms of aiming and 6 out of 10 in terms of actually getting a racket on the ball unless it is far away.

I have yet to play a game since 1981 or so. :-)

My wife has never played tennis and doesn't have very good eye/hand coordination. I bought her a Prince O3 110 and some of those big T.I.P. foam balls. She's enjoying it but I need to progress her faster.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to what to do next. I plan to keep practicing on the handball court until I regain some sort of aiming and consistency.

Are there any DVDs appropriate for me or my wife?

I really don't have a lot of free time or money for personal training.

Any advice would be appreciated.

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-19-2009, 07:58 PM
Look up Oscar Wegner on the net and get his DVDs. You and I are pretty much in the same situation.

http://www.tennisteacher.com/

Don't be discouraged. This is a great game, and you can get better at it.

For losing weight, try Nutrisystem. It is working for me. (You can email me if you want for more info; I am not a representative, just want to try to help another fellow in the same situation.)

But Oscar's DVDs will help you a lot. AS THE GREAT JOE NAMATH SAID, I GUARANTEE IT.

Have fun playing with your wife. Don't demand too much. Remember this: TENNIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.

Oscar will give you both some pointers. And, if you want to see more, you can get Jimmy Connors's DVDs (available thru TW). These are not as helpful as Oscar's are for pure instruction, but you will see some of the greatest legends ever -- Tracy Austin and Chrissie-- talking about the game. Priceless inspiration. The instruction is good too, but if you have to choose, pick Oscar.

majordude
10-19-2009, 08:11 PM
http://www.tennisteacher.com/

Thanks. That's not bad... $99 for 8 DVDs...

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-19-2009, 08:21 PM
Thanks. That's not bad... $99 for 8 DVDs...

Well worth it, my friend. I wrote Oscar with a queston, and he answered. he's a great guy. Endorsed by none other than Borg himself.

5263
10-20-2009, 08:08 PM
Outstanding set of DVDs, especially when viewed for technical content.

GuyClinch
10-21-2009, 04:01 AM
I'd check out FYB at http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/ and also the videos of tennis mind game (one word) on youtube. There is a ton of good stuff on youtube and around the web..

goober
10-21-2009, 06:58 AM
There have been many discussions on the Wegner method on this forum. I suggest you read through the discussions with many coaches and teaching pros chiming in. Decide for yourself if you want to spend the money.



http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=210666&highlight=wegner

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=79924&highlight=wegner

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=74791&highlight=wegner

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=273349&highlight=oscar+wegner


.

majordude
10-21-2009, 08:56 AM
Thanks for the tips on Wenger. I'll skip him.

I like the Fuzzy Yellow Ball site! Can't beat the price either!

5263
10-21-2009, 09:28 AM
Thanks for the tips on Wenger. I'll skip him.

I like the Fuzzy Yellow Ball site! Can't beat the price either!

With time and education, you will learn that everyone is moving towards what Oscar has been teaching for over 30 yrs. Too bad you were influenced by uninformed quotes like-

*i bought the book and it was pretty useless. he claims that you shouldn't worry about footwork or preparing early, which is total nonsense. listen to him and you'll get stuck with a lot of bad habits. there's a reason he hasn't coached anyone notable.*

Everything in the quote is incorrect.
Oscar has coached several Notables and more importantly, has coached so many of the international coaches that coach Notables.

His methods are the best way to ensure you don't get stuck with bad habits. If you stay with tennis long enough, you will learn how true this is.

Good luck

teachestennis
10-21-2009, 09:31 AM
Thanks for the tips on Wenger. I'll skip him.

I like the Fuzzy Yellow Ball site! Can't beat the price either!

There is a lot of free information out there, but you will find nothing that has the reputation of Oscar's DVDs and if you don't think they are as good as advertised, he'll refund the money. 8 DVDs and a book. I hope you read his site. FYB, which I am very familiar with, is also good, but much of what he says was originated by Oscar and there is value in going to the source that over time has been declared by many of tennis' top names to be proven as correct. Video instruction can only take you so far. I was a tennis coach who watched video of the pros but if the interpretation of the pros strokes has any false data, or you have a misconception about what you think the pros are doing, then you have lost the effectiveness of visual instruction. Oscar's MTM is unorthodox but is proven to work like no other tennis method because it is the foundation of tennis technique. Even tennisone.com paid tribute to Oscar noting that he had been teaching these new techniques that were revolutionary since 1968 and that "History proved Him Right." Bud Collins, the famous tennis commentator and the game's historian endorses Oscar with, "I know people that couldnt' learn tennis in two lifetimes, but only because they never met Oscar Wegner."

I have never once told someone to get the DVds on this forum before now but this guy just likely did you a disservice and I know from experience. You skip Oscar as a a beginner, you will spend more time and money when you skipped the shortest distance to your goal: playing your best tennis. I know, I am a tennis instruction historian and I assure you, MTM will help you see more value in other sites such as FYB's because it helps you separate the wheat from the chaff. Oscar originally named it Modern Tennis Methodology because when he introduced it forty years ago it was so revolutionary that when he wrote his first book in '89 it still was light years ahead of it's time. Though Oscar Wegner coached Guga Kuerten (later 2000 World Champion who hit 1HBH jumping up and moving backwards just like Oscar advocates in his DVDs) for eight years from age 6 to 14, he also worked miracles with Borg's game which I document on History of Tennis Instruction which you can all read for free at www.moderntenniscoaches.com/forum which is a free collection of thought provoking articles and not a forum like this one. I suppose the little overweight kid with two sisters Oscar started in tennis and then later coached the brother right before he turned pro must mean Oscar can't coach top players also, after all, the two Spadea sisters and their brother Vince all won USTA championships and Vince reached #18 in the world coached by his piano teacher father. Spadea's father also endorses Oscar because he knows where his bread was buttered. I asked Oscar why he does not coach players when he is still asked to coach top players and top juniors, once in my presence when he was asked to consider working with two top Chinese WTA players when Chang pulled out of his agreement in 2007 to coach them (I was working with Chinese National Coach Lin Di at the time who made the request to Oscar who already had plans). I asked why he never focused on players and coached coaches. He reply: "I coach a player, I reach one player. I coach a coach, I coach all their players. My players number countless all over the world and I have to stand at the forefront in protecting the game from false instruction that inhibits the growth of the game. he pros in fo Someone has to be the revolutionary and set the standard.

At least check out Oscar's site. What Oscar does is simplify the game to its' base biomechanical stroke in a play by feel method that allows you to find your maximum athletic potential. At 45, I was a washed up 3.5 player/coach. At 48, I could rally with pros and had 6.0 strokes off both forehand and 1HBH topspin (I had a decent slice before Oscar, just a great one after). A ton of free info on that site also, but I tell people who have taken lessons those DVDs are worth ten times ($1,000) in lessons and no one who has bought them has disputed that notion after they watched and tested the data. Oscar is also the only coach Richard Williams has publicly credited as he had Venus and Serena watch the videos everyday and they have been to many well known coaches and top academies such as Macci's for instruction but it's interesting Richrad thanked Oscar personally. Read www.tennisteacher.com carefully. You might want to think twice about skipping them.

charliefedererer
10-21-2009, 09:41 AM
Welcome back to tennis.

And it's great getting your wife out there as well.

Even though you've been away for a long time, your hand eye coordination will come back a lot quicker than the progress rate your wife is likely to make.

Just try to enjoy the time together. Make sure to tell her that she MUST tell you as soon as you get too "preachy" on the court in your zeal to help her. Although well intentioned, guys often are much more goal oriented than their mates, and this can get very irritating.


Whether it's Fuzzy Yellow Balls or Wegner,
the concepts are going to be way above your wife.

The first stage will just be trying to hit the ball at all. The second will be timing a punch motion it so it will just come down by gravity. It takes a tremendous amount of coordination to run to the right spot on the court to hit it, so don't expect her to develop a "correct" topspin stroke right away. You are a genius using those foam balls.

For you, it will be hard to beat the wall to regain your hand eye coordination. And there has got to be something therapeutic about hitting that ball to help relieve pent up frustrations that occur in our crazy lives.

If you reconsider Wenger, you don't buy anything but just that first beginner video for now. It does give a different perspective on total body movement and coordination, rather than trying to go through step by step instruction.

To lose weight, just cut out all junk food and high calorie drinks. Playing tennis and walking are very inefficient to burn off calories unless you are doing for hours a day. That's not to say you shouldn't do it, but it takes an hour of walking or playing tennis at a beginner level to burn off a small order of fries.

Good luck on your resolve to get younger and more fit. There are way too many people who get "old" at 45 just because they just never get around to getting started on a healthier lifestyle.

Nellie
10-21-2009, 11:47 AM
Start playing some tennis with your wife - keep the ball in the court and go for rallies instead of killing the ball. With new kids, they start, for example, by staying within the service boxes. With a foam ball, this can be really fun - kind of like ping pong.

Once you get the eye hand coordination, you can move back and start trying to rally from deeper in the court. Obviously, you can work on your technique using the various available resources, but for now, focus on having fun and moving around, not drilling. In a few months, reassess your goals - maybe your happy, maybe you want to improve.

As you spend more time around the courts, (1) you will meet some people; and (2) you will start to be known as a "tennis player" and one of your existing friends is bound to ask to join you.

Camilio Pascual
10-21-2009, 12:09 PM
She's enjoying it but I need to progress her faster. Any advice would be appreciated.
Yes, I would think long and hard about that statement if I were you.

Mick
10-21-2009, 12:38 PM
someone posted in this forum that you get in shape to play tennis and not play tennis to get in shape -- i agree with him.

so, you need to get in shape :)

volusiano
10-21-2009, 12:48 PM
^^^ Just be careful when you play. Don't overdo things and take it nice and slow. Tennis can be injury prone if you're not in shape and rush into it too fast and are not informed and overdo things.

Grampy
10-21-2009, 12:51 PM
You need to find a hitting partner (other than your wife). Its great to hit with the wife ocassionally, but if she doesn't have the tennis passion you do, you'll burn her out quick.

Find out who runs the tourney's in your area and call him/her. That person should be able to give you a name or two of some people to hit with who are at your level. That's what I did when I was new in town.

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-21-2009, 12:58 PM
Whether it's Fuzzy Yellow Balls or Wegner,
the concepts are going to be way above your wife.

.

This is not true. Oscar's Tennis 101 DVD takes the beginner from learning to hit the ball over the net with their bare hand and progresses forward.
I am not a teacher; I do not know Oscar personally. But I know that, when I tried to learn to play in college, I got a rather popular book at that time and looked at it. It was like you needed a GPS just to hit a forehand.
Oscar's method is different. Give it a try...for both of you.

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-21-2009, 01:00 PM
someone posted in this forum that you get in shape to play tennis and not play tennis to get in shape -- i agree with him.

so, you need to get in shape :)

As an overweight person myself, I have to agree: tennis alone doesn't do it. I go to the gym and do my cardio and strength training as well. Plus exercises to help my core.
Yes, we need to get into shape. But that doesn't mean we cannnot play tennis until we are all as skinny as Borg was...that's not gonna happen.

Cindysphinx
10-21-2009, 03:33 PM
If you can, maybe find a local clinic your wife can take without you? She will have some catching up to do if she hasn't played before, both on hitting the ball and understanding basic etiquette and how to play a match. I started off taking one-hour/week clinics run through the county at the county facilities. It was great for getting me started without spending a lot of money.

Then . . .

Both of you could consider a goal of signing up for league tennis in your area, perhaps for play in April 2010. She can do 2.5 or 3.0, and you can do 3.0 or 3.5, depending on how fast you pick it back up.

I started out playing USTA as a clueless, self-rated 2.5 after taking those county classes for about nine months. It's the perfect way for your wife to get started as a new player.

HunterST
10-21-2009, 03:35 PM
DVDs and fuzzy yellow balls are great supplements but the truth is there's no substitute for good, personal instruction. I know paying for it is not fun, but if you really want to get better, you're going to have to do it. Think of it as spending it on equipment. If you will spend 80 dollars on a racquet, you should be willing to pay to learn to use it.

I think a half hour lesson for 20 dollars or so would be easy enough to find. Even taking those once a week, or even once every 2 weeks if you really can't afford it, would hugely improve your game in my opinion.

5263
10-21-2009, 04:34 PM
This is not true. Oscar's Tennis 101 DVD takes the beginner from learning to hit the ball over the net with their bare hand and progresses forward.
I am not a teacher; I do not know Oscar personally. But I know that, when I tried to learn to play in college, I got a rather popular book at that time and looked at it. It was like you needed a GPS just to hit a forehand.
Oscar's method is different. Give it a try...for both of you.

Excellent description.

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-21-2009, 05:39 PM
DVDs and fuzzy yellow balls are great supplements but the truth is there's no substitute for good, personal instruction. I know paying for it is not fun, but if you really want to get better, you're going to have to do it. Think of it as spending it on equipment. If you will spend 80 dollars on a racquet, you should be willing to pay to learn to use it.

I think a half hour lesson for 20 dollars or so would be easy enough to find. Even taking those once a week, or even once every 2 weeks if you really can't afford it, would hugely improve your game in my opinion.

As long as you get the right instructor. I ran into a woman at the court while I was hitting against the wall, and she tried to change my open-stance forehand to a closed stance, saying that that is what her teacher taught her.
There's nothing wrong with an open stance, but this woman seemed to think there was.
In fact, hitting with an open stance is more natural and it's the way virtually every pro plays.
When I started taking lessons, my teacher told me that he was certified in Oscar Wegner's Modern Tennis Method. I had seen most of Oscar's DVDs already, and I knew I had found the kind of teacher I needed. Time has only proved that initial judgement to be correct.
It's also, BTW, a mistake to say that Oscar doesn't go into footwork; he does. And my teacher does. But Oscar realizes that you have to learn to get the ball over the net before you worry about footwork. His latest DVD addresses the whole footwork issue.

GuyClinch
10-21-2009, 06:58 PM
There has been a recent influx of Wegner fan(s) on this board. When I first joined I wondered why more people didn't talk about him. Now I find it annoying that he is pushed like the only game in town.

There are lots of decent tennis instructional CDs. I have watched alot of them and don't see anything that much better about one set then another. There is no real copywright with regards to videos so most good teaching ideas have been spread around already.

But every teaching approach can be misconstrued from video - as the person might not understand what the teacher is teaching or it might be explained in such a way that confuses the student (but is perfectly clear to another pro)..

But honestly the BEST way to improve is to take lessons from a decent pro, IMHO. Why? The major thing is a pro can see what your doing wrong and give you immediate corrections. When you learn from videos (any kind) you may not be doing what you THINK your doing on the court.

Proprioception varies from athlete to athlete (body awareness) and thus you might imagine your doing everything right and actually be doing alot wrong - even if your learn from a decent video.

BTW I like the Dave Smith book .. its excellent. I liked his videos on tennis one and I think he is a guy that should consider doing a video..

totalvid has some videos that you can access free for a month - but you got to cancel afterwards. I liked the Dave Sammel videos (but I imagine alot of people will hate them). He really simplifies things for the absolute beginner I think.

Pete

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-21-2009, 07:19 PM
I recommended Oscar because he is what I know. Sorry that if talking only about what I know annoyed you; frankly, I find it annoying when someone talks about something they don't know.
Not all tennis teachers are worth the price they charge. Indeed, some turn people off of tennis by the way they teach. Teaching is an art; but you also have to offer a decent product that is accurate.
I have nothing against taking lessons; on the contrary: I think in the final analysis that that is the single most important thing one can do to improve. But who you pick is critical. One teacher is NOT as good as another.
Oscar Wegner's method is ignored by many tennis pros and sites. But he gets results. So have many others. But his is what I know, and that's why I recommended his DVDs. There are some out there I wouldn't waste my money on.

cigrmaster
10-22-2009, 05:38 AM
I have been playing tennis for 40 years, and the one thing I do know is that without proper footwork and racquet preparation there is no way you will ever play the game the way it is meant to be played.

I have never heard of this Oscar guy before I read this thread so I have no opinion weather he is a good coach or a bad one.

teachestennis
10-22-2009, 06:12 AM
I have been playing tennis for 40 years, and the one thing I do know is that without proper footwork and racquet preparation there is no way you will ever play the game the way it is meant to be played.

I have never heard of this Oscar guy before I read this thread so I have no opinion weather he is a good coach or a bad one.

Go to his site, as recommended, it has lots of free info, lots of free tips if you browse around. His free weekly tennis tips are very thought provoking.

I hope you don't think Oscar doesn't teach "proper footwoork and proper preparation." He just teaches it differently and through the backdoor so to speak. Oscar advocated keeping the racket in front of the body and the swing is essentially taught from the contact point to the finish and I never teach a backswing or a loop yet all my students have very natural looking loops and backswings looking very pro like. I have been coaching for 30 years and I learned from Oscar that proper footwork is best taught through drills and that the longer a student waits to take the left hand off the racket before they swing, the better their strokes get.

Regarding Oscar's delayed takeback and other weird theories he started teaching as a 28 year old Bevery Hills tennis pro in 1968, where he became known as the tennis pro to the stars before he took of to Spain in search of a larger stage to test his theories, he has been proven correct, and that comes from www.tennisone.com who did a tribute about Oscar noting "History proved him right." Don't take my word. Read his theories and then test them. Email me and I'll send you a ton of free tips. We would love to hear your experience after 40 years of playing if they helped you improve your game. That is all MTM stands for, helping people simplify and improve their game. I went from 3.5 at age 45 to hitting with any level player at age 48 and having no problem hitting (well maybe a little given I'm slow and watched quite a few balls buzz by, lol) with the few satellite tour players I gave lessons to or with 6.0 players I taught in high performance clinics in California.

charliefedererer
10-22-2009, 09:48 AM
This is not true. Oscar's Tennis 101 DVD takes the beginner from learning to hit the ball over the net with their bare hand and progresses forward.
I am not a teacher; I do not know Oscar personally. But I know that, when I tried to learn to play in college, I got a rather popular book at that time and looked at it. It was like you needed a GPS just to hit a forehand.
Oscar's method is different. Give it a try...for both of you.

You are very right about that 101 DVD being a real potential help.
I was referring to the whole set of DVD's being above her head at this time, especially where he mentioned he is trying not to break the bank.
Also that 101 DVD might help majordude being a better teacher if he watches and takes this approach. But it can be a complicated dynamic whenever you are trying to teach someone close to you anything. Cindysphinx's suggestion is a great one, if such a clinic is available.

HunterST
10-22-2009, 10:13 AM
As long as you get the right instructor. I ran into a woman at the court while I was hitting against the wall, and she tried to change my open-stance forehand to a closed stance, saying that that is what her teacher taught her.
There's nothing wrong with an open stance, but this woman seemed to think there was.
In fact, hitting with an open stance is more natural and it's the way virtually every pro plays.
When I started taking lessons, my teacher told me that he was certified in Oscar Wegner's Modern Tennis Method. I had seen most of Oscar's DVDs already, and I knew I had found the kind of teacher I needed. Time has only proved that initial judgement to be correct.
It's also, BTW, a mistake to say that Oscar doesn't go into footwork; he does. And my teacher does. But Oscar realizes that you have to learn to get the ball over the net before you worry about footwork. His latest DVD addresses the whole footwork issue.

Well I'm talking about a good, USTA certified instructor. As far as the open stance issue I think the woman's teacher probably had her start with a close or neutral stance (I've heard it called both, basically when you're standing sideways) because it's easier. An open stance is more difficult to time and in my opinion is better to get into once you have a closed stance down correctly.

teachestennis
10-22-2009, 10:40 AM
blank post, lol. Or should I say I'm speechless at the last quote, which no one on here would believe.

teachestennis
10-22-2009, 11:36 AM
Well I'm talking about a good, USTA certified instructor. As far as the open stance issue I think the woman's teacher probably had her start with a close or neutral stance (I've heard it called both, basically when you're standing sideways) because it's easier. An open stance is more difficult to time and in my opinion is better to get into once you have a closed stance down correctly.


This statement that an open stance is more difficult to time is demonstrably false. Players who start with open stance have the ball in front of them and can easily find it with the racket without having to worry about their feet. First of all, why would you want to turn your feet sideways and then try to reach for the ball from behind you. Think about one. It's like trying to shake hands from a closed stance. You have stated the party line of the USTA but now even Jack Groppel in Aug '09 USPTA issue admits some students hit better with an open stance and he's the guy who ruined my great Bjorn Borg forehand in 1975 when he and his staff convinced me open stance hitting off my back foot would cause injuries and by my senior year I no longer was considered scholarship material after I switched to hitting like Stan Smith, the model of that time. At least Groppel is halfway right and I've got him in my sights to prove him wrong on court in a public forum for all to judge the results using the scientific method.

In my five years of advocating open stance, I have never seen one person who I have let try both, and there were many skeptics, but since I offer a money back guarantee to all who try MTM if they don't get instant satisfaction, I used to get a lot of skeptical people thinking they would just get a free lesson, and they used to tell me after the lesson they thought no way they would enjoy an open stance since many had tried variations of it due to video and becoming a option for coaches teaching it. But they did not experience it in the simplistic "find the ball and swing begins from contact point to the finish." Not one person who has taken a lesson with me did not think the open stance was easier, even long time players who had never hit an open stance. Even Pam Austin, a pretty good closed stance player and USTA junior champion herself, (sister of Tracy), who I was hitting with in an MTM coaching clinic in Irvine in 2007, said she enjoyed hitting open with MTM, that it was easier, and she quickly became a believer, and told me she was hitting better than she did ten years younger. Yet when I taught open stance sometimes before I knew MTM, I didn't enjoy the success because I didn't know you can't mix conventional with modern. The key is to have a timing mechanism.

I taught closed stance for 25 years and lots of players hit well with it as did I but I hit many ceilings. I can teach closed stance players now, too, who might have already very fine games and it's not worth it to change their swings, I just add a few things that will help them get better, such as waiting longer and counting to five after the bounce of the ball before they pounce on the groundstrokes. When I teach a 2HBH, I start open stance but then show them how to hit a closed stance as they advance and many of my students hit certain kinds of strokes better from a closed stance better on the 2HBH side but they have all weapons in their arsenal. I allow them to choose and just tell them what I see and ensure when they hit from a closed stance FH or 2HBH that they lift and rotate out of the closed stance finishing in open stance like all pros being sure to focus on hitting across the ball and finishing properly with the racket wrap and butt of the racket having traveled through the target line as much as possible.

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-22-2009, 11:43 AM
An open stance is more difficult to time and in my opinion is better to get into once you have a closed stance down correctly.

The way Oscar teaches you to hit, he is increasing the margain for error -- meaning that the open stance with the racquet preparation that he recommends is designed as much as possible to take timing out of the equation -- at least consciously. I have had four lessons with my MTM certified instructor, and not once has the word "timing" come up. But he has worked some on my footwork and cut down on my backswing significantly. The results are palpably better.
Now if I can just keep my head up when I am serving....

Swissv2
10-22-2009, 11:53 AM
Wondering why anyone hasn't even mentioned using these online resources as a complimentary resource to personal training?

5263
10-22-2009, 12:01 PM
Wondering why anyone hasn't even mentioned using these online resources as a complimentary resource to personal training?

Guess it was just taken for granted.

teachestennis
10-22-2009, 12:01 PM
The way Oscar teaches you to hit, he is increasing the margain for error -- meaning that the open stance with the racquet preparation that he recommends is designed as much as possible to take timing out of the equation -- at least consciously. I have had four lessons with my MTM certified instructor, and not once has the word "timing" come up. But he has worked some on my footwork and cut down on my backswing significantly. The results are palpably better.
Now if I can just keep my head up when I am serving....

I am speaking from a coaches viewpoint, but as a student, you are correct. We never mention the word timing to our students, but by shortening the swing to it's simplest mechanic, from the ball to the shoulder, and then teaching to "wait" until the last second, the student figures out the built in timing mechanism in this method. And we do teach more footwork than people realize, we just teach natural footwork first and then figure out drills to make what might feel unnatural more comfortable and natural. Last night I was teaching a lady to drag the left foot instep as she moved to the right stepping out on he right foot, just like you see in the new Modern Footwork DVD. It worked for her and she was amazed at how the "pause" of not committing her feet to quickly gave her the sense of extra time.

cigrmaster
10-22-2009, 12:20 PM
Teachtennis, I will check out his site and will let you know if I pick up some pointers. I have wondered about the open stance and will play around with it tomorrow. I am hitting with a solid 6.0 who used to teach at Bollettieri. He does not use an open stance or the western grip. He is a more classical hitter. I'll ask him what he thinks of Oscar, I am sure he knows who he is.

HunterST
10-22-2009, 01:01 PM
This statement that an open stance is more difficult to time is demonstrably false. Players who start with open stance have the ball in front of them and can easily find it with the racket without having to worry about their feet. First of all, why would you want to turn your feet sideways and then try to reach for the ball from behind you. Think about one. It's like trying to shake hands from a closed stance. You have stated the party line of the USTA but now even Jack Groppel in Aug '09 USPTA issue admits some students hit better with an open stance and he's the guy who ruined my great Bjorn Borg forehand in 1975 when he and his staff convinced me open stance hitting off my back foot would cause injuries and by my senior year I no longer was considered scholarship material after I switched to hitting like Stan Smith, the model of that time. At least Groppel is halfway right and I've got him in my sights to prove him wrong on court in a public forum for all to judge the results using the scientific method.

In my five years of advocating open stance, I have never seen one person who I have let try both, and there were many skeptics, but since I offer a money back guarantee to all who try MTM if they don't get instant satisfaction, I used to get a lot of skeptical people thinking they would just get a free lesson, and they used to tell me after the lesson they thought no way they would enjoy an open stance since many had tried variations of it due to video and becoming a option for coaches teaching it. But they did not experience it in the simplistic "find the ball and swing begins from contact point to the finish." Not one person who has taken a lesson with me did not think the open stance was easier, even long time players who had never hit an open stance. Even Pam Austin, a pretty good closed stance player and USTA junior champion herself, (sister of Tracy), who I was hitting with in an MTM coaching clinic in Irvine in 2007, said she enjoyed hitting open with MTM, that it was easier, and she quickly became a believer, and told me she was hitting better than she did ten years younger. Yet when I taught open stance sometimes before I knew MTM, I didn't enjoy the success because I didn't know you can't mix conventional with modern. The key is to have a timing mechanism.

I taught closed stance for 25 years and lots of players hit well with it as did I but I hit many ceilings. I can teach closed stance players now, too, who might have already very fine games and it's not worth it to change their swings, I just add a few things that will help them get better, such as waiting longer and counting to five after the bounce of the ball before they pounce on the groundstrokes. When I teach a 2HBH, I start open stance but then show them how to hit a closed stance as they advance and many of my students hit certain kinds of strokes better from a closed stance better on the 2HBH side but they have all weapons in their arsenal. I allow them to choose and just tell them what I see and ensure when they hit from a closed stance FH or 2HBH that they lift and rotate out of the closed stance finishing in open stance like all pros being sure to focus on hitting across the ball and finishing properly with the racket wrap and butt of the racket having traveled through the target line as much as possible.

What are you talking about get sideways and reach behind you? You don't make contact behind you. In a closed stance (sideways to net) you're running with your feet are already sideways so you don't have to adjust positioning before swinging. The racquet head speed is lower so beginner shots with not so much topspin are more likely to stay in.

majordude
10-22-2009, 02:34 PM
Damn! I didn't mean to poke the hornets nest! :-P

Thanks to everyone for their input!

I found out a friend at work is an advanced tennis player (I didn't realize this until this week!) and we went to the handball court and he immediately noticed my grip was wrong and my swing was short and without a lot of follow-through.

So yes, one on one instruction is best! :-)

I'll go back over to that other site to see what he's got. Thanks again!

majordude
10-22-2009, 06:35 PM
Okay, I bought the 8 DVD special. :-)

5263
10-22-2009, 06:39 PM
Okay, I bought the 8 DVD special. :-)

Congrats, I think you will enjoy and get a lot out of them. They do a great job of keeping it simple for just starting out, even as they lay a foundation for top notch level strokes.

snoopy
10-22-2009, 06:42 PM
I agree with Nellie and Cindy.

Get out on the courts and have some fun.

Get in shape, loose some weight. Look at some instructional stuff, keep it basic.

If you find that you like tennis and want to continue, ask around for a good instructor and then take some lessons.

As for the racquet you have chosen, it's fine. It's too early to start blaming your equipment.

VaBeachTennis
10-22-2009, 07:04 PM
All I can say is WOW!!! This "stuff" is getting a little crazy. Good luck Major, I hope it all works out for you.............................

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-22-2009, 07:43 PM
Congratulations on your purchase; you will not regret it!

Bungalo Bill
10-22-2009, 07:57 PM
I used to play tennis in high school but that's it. My last racket was either a Head or Puma (did they make rackets?) white wood and slightly warped. I was told it was expensive when originally purchased.

Anyway, I've been walking the dog a lot trying to lose weight and every time I passed the tennis courts I thought to myself, hell, I can do that.

Anyway, two days ago I bought a Wilson Zen 103 Team for $79 on sale at Sports Authority. Maybe a lot of people laugh at "off the shelf" pre-strung sticks but this thing (seems) nice but what do I know.

I've spent the last two days using an outdoor handball court for practice. If I were to guess I'd say I'm a 4 out of 10 in terms of aiming and 6 out of 10 in terms of actually getting a racket on the ball unless it is far away.

I have yet to play a game since 1981 or so. :-)

My wife has never played tennis and doesn't have very good eye/hand coordination. I bought her a Prince O3 110 and some of those big T.I.P. foam balls. She's enjoying it but I need to progress her faster.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to what to do next. I plan to keep practicing on the handball court until I regain some sort of aiming and consistency.

Are there any DVDs appropriate for me or my wife?

I really don't have a lot of free time or money for personal training.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Whatever instruction you get, nothing will help you improve more than losing weight and getting in reasonable tennis shape for your age. The most important thing in tennis is your movement. Nothing surpasses its importannce. No lesson, method, or way to hit a ball comes close. The fastest way to enjoy tennis and to help your steady progression in learning tennis is to lose weight and get in shape.

I can't stress this enough because it impacts nearly everything you learn and practice.

Ken Honecker
10-23-2009, 12:16 AM
Personally I find it odd that anyone thinks open stance is easier or more natural or whatever. I'm old school and hit open when I'm too slow to get in a closed position. I sure don't see baseball players using an open stance when batting. Heck even throwing a frisbee is easier closed. Maybe I'm a dinosaur.

5263
10-23-2009, 02:58 AM
I sure don't see baseball players using an open stance when batting. Heck even throwing a frisbee is easier closed. Maybe I'm a dinosaur.

I think you hit on the biggest reason the US is so tied to the neutral stance. Baseball.
In baseball, the ball comes to you in a very restricted space and on one side of the body. They also don't often hit off the bounce.
And oddly enough, some batters are opening their stance more these days.

You also you don't see tennis players try to hit home runs either.

Ken Honecker
10-23-2009, 03:49 AM
Well I don't see many golfers using an open stance either. I just feel that closed is more natural. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with open stance and I can see at the highest levels where you don't have the time to turn away from the net and it isn't that good of an idea to put half of the court you are defending behind your back but most players don't play at a level where balls are coming back at them 100 MPH.

I'm afraid with my medieval footwork I don't sidle from one side to the other while keeping my chisled jaw frimly pointed at my opponant, rather do I grunt like a deranged wildebeest and run like a madman to get back into position.

5263
10-23-2009, 04:35 AM
Well I don't see many golfers using an open stance either. I just feel that closed is more natural. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with open stance and I can see at the highest levels where you don't have the time to turn away from the net and it isn't that good of an idea to put half of the court you are defending behind your back but most players don't play at a level where balls are coming back at them 100 MPH.

I'm afraid with my medieval footwork I don't sidle from one side to the other while keeping my chisled jaw frimly pointed at my opponant, rather do I grunt like a deranged wildebeest and run like a madman to get back into position.

And who suggested you point your jaw towards the opp? and why would you want to do that?

And golfers are not going for the long ball like in baseball? Also notice the ball in golf it already to the side, not coming from the front or even moving, so the issue of finding and tracking the ball is not an issue in golf.

D.Inime
10-23-2009, 10:47 AM
HI

I am new to tennis 2 months ago and have had 3 lessons. He seems very experienced and has many students..primarily young students.
My Question: When he is teaching me the forehand; he tells me that I do not need to bring the racket all the way back when I pivot. He says that it needs to only go 90 degrees ie straight out in front of me. This goes against what I see in many different tennis videos. Is this a big thing? Should I be concerned? Also, how do you pick a good tennis coach?

Thanks

Bungalo Bill
10-23-2009, 10:53 AM
Personally I find it odd that anyone thinks open stance is easier or more natural or whatever. I'm old school and hit open when I'm too slow to get in a closed position. I sure don't see baseball players using an open stance when batting. Heck even throwing a frisbee is easier closed. Maybe I'm a dinosaur.

You are exacltly right. Tennis is a sport that has grown a lot in many areas. Teaching an open stance vs. teaching a nuetral stance (I reserve closed stances for onehanded backhands) is not hard or one makes the other bad or taboo.

They both serve a purpose and both can be taught and learned at the beginner level.

5263
10-23-2009, 11:13 AM
HI

I am new to tennis 2 months ago and have had 3 lessons. He seems very experienced and has many students..primarily young students.
My Question: When he is teaching me the forehand; he tells me that I do not need to bring the racket all the way back when I pivot. He says that it needs to only go 90 degrees ie straight out in front of me. This goes against what I see in many different tennis videos. Is this a big thing? Should I be concerned? Also, how do you pick a good tennis coach?

Thanks

You may be describing the stalking position used to go to the ball with both hands still on the racket, which is used in Modern Tennis. If so, I would consider it a good thing, as I am clearly partial to Modern tennis methods.

cigrmaster
10-23-2009, 01:56 PM
Teachtennis, I checked out wegner's site and really didn't think it was much more than a place of business promoting a product. I saw nothing that would make me want to change anything about my game.

I played with my hitting partner today and he said he never heard of wegner. He also said that the neutral stance is what I use most but I do on occasion open up depending on the circumstance. We did discuss the issue of racquet preparation and he said that only a fool doesn't run with his racquet back.

Now granted my hitting partner spent a lot of years at Bollettierie so he obviously has his way of doing things. I have always played with my racquet back and will continue to do so, wegners theory on this one really makes no sense to me.

If wegner can help people enjoy the game and get them to be better quicker than cool by me, but I'll stick to the classic teachings I have used for the last 40 years....I am way to old to change now.

5263
10-23-2009, 02:26 PM
I played with my hitting partner today and he said he never heard of wegner. He also said that the neutral stance is what I use most but I do on occasion open up depending on the circumstance. We did discuss the issue of racquet preparation and he said that only a fool doesn't run with his racquet back.

Now granted my hitting partner spent a lot of years at Bollettierie so he obviously has his way of doing things. I have always played with my racquet back and will continue to do so, wegners theory on this one really makes no sense to me.

If wegner can help people enjoy the game and get them to be better quicker than cool by me, but I'll stick to the classic teachings I have used for the last 40 years....I am way to old to change now.

And who would blame you? You are happy with your playing level and you enjoy and love the game as it is. Why would you change? Most who have been playing a certain way for 40 years would be unable to change anyway, right? Especially if it makes no sense to you. Some folks are baseliners, some rush net, and some love to linger in No Man's land. In tennis, we have all kinds!

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-23-2009, 02:54 PM
Personally I find it odd that anyone thinks open stance is easier or more natural or whatever. I'm old school and hit open when I'm too slow to get in a closed position. I sure don't see baseball players using an open stance when batting. Heck even throwing a frisbee is easier closed. Maybe I'm a dinosaur.

About 20 years ago, Charlie Lau, who was a coach for Tony LaRussa when they ran the Oakland A's, was teaching batters to open their stance up. Cal Ripken, who was fiddling with his stance all the time -- probably to the detriment of his batting average -- hit with an open stance for a while.
So, yes, you're a dinosaur. Yabba dabba dooo! :)

Ken Honecker
10-24-2009, 01:26 AM
I'm afraid if I opened my stance up any more in softball I'd be hitting everything into the dugout. Right now I only use about half of left field. I simply can't wait on the ball.

Bungalo Bill
10-25-2009, 09:56 AM
Teachtennis, I checked out wegner's site and really didn't think it was much more than a place of business promoting a product. I saw nothing that would make me want to change anything about my game.

Finally some truth. Wegner has his way of teaching and so do others. WW's, open stances, etc... are pervasivly taught. There is no magic.

However to some, Wegners ways are appealing because of the way Wegner markets his packaged instruction which seems new or different or refreshing. Like old vs. new,or conventional vs. modern.

And to some that are stuck at a certain level it sounds very appealing. Or for coaches that struggle putting together a lesson plan, life-saving. When Wegnerites talk about Wegner, it is like he is a god. Espeically, when they drop a few names in the mix. Nevermind, the thousands of names trained without Wegners methods. And believe me, Wegner isn't saving the US Tennis dillemma. He isn't the christ that saves US Tennis.

5263
10-25-2009, 10:55 AM
Finally some truth. Wegner has his way of teaching and so do others.

WW's, open stances, etc... are pervasivly taught. There is no magic.

Nevermind, the thousands of names trained without Wegners methods.

Classic example, all in one post.

In one part, Wegner has is own way of teaching,
different from others, then
quickly followed by

how pervasive his teachings are, there is no magic,
as though almost everyone is doing it and has it wired,
One coach is as good as another type attitude,
doesn't matter what coach you listen to,
a Kia is a good as a BMW, right?
quickly followed by

thousand of names not being trained with Wegner's methods.

Amazing how the ones who want to manufacture ways to discredit Oscar's system seek to have it both ways,
especially when they have no system to offer at all.

On one hand they claim, everyone knows and is teaching what Oscar does without using his system,
but on the other,
look at all the great players not using methods used by Oscar.
It's pretty clear to the rational person that it doesn't go both ways.
If everyone knows this stuff and is using it to teach,
then there won't be thousands of players out there being trained without it.

Bungalo Bill
10-25-2009, 01:21 PM
Open stance, semi-open stance, neutral stance, Western grip, Windhsield Wiper forehands, balance, serves, angular rotation, linear rotation, twohanded backhands, onehanded backhands, wrist release, early preparation, point-the-butt-cap toward the opponents, wrap around neck, and on and on and on.

The clear majority of professional players and have learned in various ways, not from Wegner but from various coaches.

Wegner has created his instruction on tennis and it is geared and based on known information. From there, he can add his own discoveries just like anyone else. He gets credit for that.

1926 photos have been provided and COULDN'T BE DENIED.

majordude
10-25-2009, 03:25 PM
I just got back from my first 30 minute lesson. Started with the basics... forehand swing with wiper effect.

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-25-2009, 06:51 PM
Open stance, semi-open stance, neutral stance, Western grip, Windhsield Wiper forehands, balance, serves, angular rotation, linear rotation, twohanded backhands, onehanded backhands, wrist release, early preparation, point-the-butt-cap toward the opponents, wrap around neck, and on and on and on.

The clear majority of professional players and have learned in various ways, not from Wegner but from various coaches.

Wegner has created his instruction on tennis and it is geared and based on known information. From there, he can add his own discoveries just like anyone else. He gets credit for that.

1926 photos have been provided and COULDN'T BE DENIED.

Clearly, you are missing the point. Not surprising, because it seems you have an axe to grind, and grind away you will.
You mention professional players. Oscar would certainly agree with you that they have learned in various ways. His point is that average players can learn how to play from watching the pros, rather than get out a GPS and learn footwork from a guy who has you thinking of a billion variou sthings, except hitting the damn ball.
THIS is the originality to Oscar's teaching. Thumb through a copy of TENNIS FOR THE FUTURE, by a great man who has done a lot for tennis, Vic Braden, and you will find few, if any, references to pro players. Now, why is that? I mean, if they are pros, they are obviously doing something right, right?
No, what we learn here is not how to hit a forehand like Borg, but rather the closed stance, yaddayaddayadda.
My teacher, who is certified in Oscar's MTM, is helping me a lot. That is alal the proof I need. And as for slavish imitation of the pros (like a nice looping backswing), he knows that I do not have the hours to perfect my timing the way the pros do...so we do it the way Oscar teaches in Tennis 101.
The point I am making is that this method works. Do others? I am sure they do, after all, you made the point yourself about that, and I am not going to disagree. But you DO fundamentally misunderstand Oscar's contribution to teaching methodology. That would be no big deal in and of itself, but fo rthe fact that some misguided soul is going to read what you have written and take it as fact. It is not.
Finally, if you have read many of my posts before, you would know that I'd be the last person to say that Oscar was the new christ of tennis. I use my analogies based on science and fact, not imaginary delusions. ;)

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-25-2009, 08:47 PM
THIS WAS IN OSCAR'S LATEST NEWSLETTER, AND BEARS DIRECTLY ON WHAT I TALKED ABOUT ABOVE:

What's The Problem?

A long and early backswing can make you lose your control of the ball.

Further, taking the racquet back early can stick some of your attention on where the racquet is behind you.

Now, with your racquet far back, usually before or during the bounce, you have to pay attention to two paths and make them meet. The earliest you make this calculations, the more difficulty you introduce to your game and the more prone you'll be to misjudgement and mishits.

But top pros seem to have long swings when hitting hard. How could someone emulate the pros and achieve the same results?

Read below.
The Optimal Solution

There are two things that come into play that give power to your shot. One is momentum and the other is acceleration. Momentum is the force from the forward speed of the racquet, while you can increase that force considerably by accelerating the racquet.

I have been de-emphasizing momentum so people pay more attention to acceleration.

Why? This is because minimizing the backswing, or taking the racquet slowly up to the ball (or close enough), helps find it and control the shot. That usually corrects unforced errors.

Now, when you become a master at this, and your attention stays in front and not behind you, you can make your swing bigger and bigger.

What I usually say to a student, after he or she masters the control of the ball, is to hit the ball harder, then harder, but GRADUALLY, so they take the racquet back without THINKING of the backswing. As a result, the backswing becomes bigger, but the player is not thinking about it. His whole attention stays in front and then on the finish of the stroke.

If the person has learned a good finish across the body, this action of delaying the backswing actually increases the finish.

Witness the story of Andre Agassi Wimbledon win in 1992. Before Wimbledon Agassi was practicing with John McEnroe in Paris. Agassi asked McEnroe: "how do you play on grass", to which McEnroe replied: "on grass courts, no backswing".

Does this mean that Andre Agassi did not have a backswing at Wimbledon? Not quite, but his attention to keeping the racquet in front delayed his backswing to where his whole attention became instinctive, practically instantaneous, and he Zoned in (seeing the ball slower than usual). Which prompted, in later years, Agassi's seemingly illogical statement: "I hit the ball when it stops".

Thank you, John McEnroe, for this tip. I consider it the greatest tennis tip ever. Sorry it cost you your 1992 Wimbledon (McEnroe lost to an inspired Agassi in the semifinals, in what was deemed to be, by that stage of the tournament, McEnroe's year to win).

Why is this process so successful in teaching? Because your backswing becomes instinctive, produced by your desire to power the ball, not a product of stuck pictures in your mind

GuyClinch
10-26-2009, 04:27 AM
OMG we are overun with wegnerites. I have his videos. They are not better then other videos from other pros. I feel bad for the majordude guy getting suckered in by all the wegnerites.

Here is the truth. There is no "secret" info that's not being taught by OTHER coaches that will make you a far better player with far less work.

If there was we would all be using those methods. <g> Tennis instructional ideas aren't copyrighted. If they were revolutionary Bungalo Bill or any other pro could simply watch his videos and use his methods.

Pete

5263
10-26-2009, 04:53 AM
OMG we are overun with wegnerites. I have his videos. They are not better then other videos from other pros. I feel bad for the majordude guy getting suckered in by all the wegnerites.

Here is the truth. There is no "secret" info that's not being taught by OTHER coaches that will make you a far better player with far less work.

If there was we would all be using those methods. <g> Tennis instructional ideas aren't copyrighted. If they were revolutionary Bungalo Bill or any other pro could simply watch his videos and use his methods.

Pete
And I feel bad for you, like you are in any position to know which video is better? If Major dude actually watches and uses the vids, he will be able to be posting advice on here for you very quickly, as he moves right up the levels. Or he could become a vid collector who can't see the difference between one technique and another, like some players do. Before you call someone a sucker, you might want to think about who has 7 different vid programs and is at the level Major will probably enter the leagues.

BB is very able to watch the MTM vids and use if he wanted, but with his experience, he prefers to go with his personal recipe. Even though he hasn't watched the MTM vids, he uses quite a bit of the same stuff as this has been discussed in detail here. While I don't think there is much comparison between Oscar and BB in the experience level of coaching coaches or players, BB clearly is quite accomplished and able make excellent choices when working with a player. If all coaches where educated anywhere near how BB is, there would be a lot less need for MTM, but unfortunately for students, that is not the case. I think even BB would have to agree with that, as he knows he is far more versed than the avg coach. BB helps players and coaches by posting some very good stuff on here. Oscar helps players and coaches thru videos and with a coaching certification program. Both are excellent and valid approaches.

I support MTM, not only for the excellent and accurate instruction, but the excellent people involved in this grassroots approach to the game. If you or I have a question, we can email Oscar and usually get a response in a day. Where else can you get that kind of support and interest from the most internationally acclaimed coach in the history of the game? I looked at PTR, and even though Van Der Meer is a friend, it had too much false data in it's rigid system. I went with PTA back then, as even though there was false data, the system was not as rigid, allowing for personal touches, and really was the only other game in town. With MTM, I have found NO false data yet, but even so, the system is not so rigid and allows for much personal style and preference.

GuyClinch
10-26-2009, 05:31 AM
And I feel bad for you, like you are in any position to know which video is better? If Major dude actually watches and uses the vids, he will move right past the 3.5 ranks quickly. Or he could become a vid collector who can't see the difference between one technique and another, like some players do. Before you call someone a sucker, you might want to add your level of play and how long you have been there.

I am not in any position to know which is better? LMAO. Aren't his videos supposed to help people? I have them. They didn't help me more then any others.

What more "position" do I need to be in? Only if I am a touring pro can I evaluate a video? I honestly hope Wegner pays you because this is a pretty stupid line of reasoning.

If only "touring" pros can evalute videos this would seem to be a pretty strong counter to Wegner's videos. How many guys on tour learned via Wegner's videos <g>

Your telling me they learned by going to academies and/or getting personal coaches? <g>

Who is this a list of:

Andre Agassi Boris Becker
Paul Annacone

Pete Sampras
Bjorn Borg
Nicholas Pereira

Jim Courier
Brian Gottfried
Fabiola Zuluaga

Martina Hingis
Jimmy Arias
Pablo Arraya

Venus Williams
Marcelo Rios
Aaron Krickstein

Serena Williams
Mauricio Hadad
Max Mirnyi

Monica Seles
Rafaella Reggi
Alexandra Stevenson

Anna Kournikova
David Wheaton
Lisa Bonder

Tommy Haas
Carling Bassett-Seguso
Pam Casale

Mary Pierce
Tim Mayotte
Mirjana Lucic

Petra Korda
Thomas Enqvist
Sandra Cacic

Xavier Malisse
Iva Majoli
Andre Sa

Mary Joe Fernandez
Maria Sharapova
Mark Phillippoussis

Anke Huber
Paul-Henri Mathieu
Caroline Vis

Tatiana Golovin
Nicole Vaidisova
Daniela Hantuchova

Sabine Lisicki
Kei Nishikori
Jelena Jankovic


Pete

5263
10-26-2009, 05:51 AM
I am not in any position to know which is better? LMAO. Aren't his videos supposed to help people? I have them. They didn't help me more then any others.

What more "position" do I need to be in? Only if I am a touring pro can I evaluate a video? I honestly hope Wegner pays you because this is a pretty stupid line of reasoning.

Pete

The only stupid thing here is how you attempt to place words in my mouth. I don't even suggest that you even have to be a teaching pro, much less a touring pro. I just suggest that someone who has like 7 different vid programs and still plays in the entry level of leagues is not someone you expect to be a valid evaluator of instruction. You would at least expect them to be able to say, this vid is the one who help my break thru to a new level or something. The fact that several of the vids did not help you speaks more to you than the vids. In fact, Majordude played HS tennis, which means you may not even be to his level of knowledge or play. As a beginner, you are in a position to learn from the videos, not evaluate the instruction (other than personal taste for viewing experience). If you knew enough to evaluate them, then you would not be a beginner would you?

This display of your logic may explain your take on the many vids you have watched.
And your post is very unclear anyway, as it is not clear what you are trying to say about that list of pros.
Don't know why Oscar would pay me. I just spoke up about these excellent vids after you made 2-3 posts about how they didn't help you, making it clear you have some type of axe to grind about them. I'm beginning to wonder if you really even have them, as you could have gotten a refund if you had been unhappy with them.

HSCoach
10-26-2009, 06:19 AM
If only "touring" pros can evalute videos this would seem to be a pretty strong counter to Wegner's videos. How many guys on tour learned via Wegner's videos <g>

Your telling me they learned by going to academies and/or getting personal coaches? <g>

Who is this a list of:

Pete

What are you saying here?

This Wegner and MTM stuff have been interesting to me. What is your grudge against Wegner?

GuyClinch
10-26-2009, 06:38 AM
The only stupid thing here is how you attempt to place words in my mouth. I don't even suggest that you even have to be a teaching pro, much less a touring pro. I just suggest that someone who has like 7 different vid programs and still plays in the entry level of leagues is not someone you expect to be a valid evaluator of instruction.

If I played at high levels why would I need videos that target beginners?

You would at least expect them to be able to say, this vid is the one who help my break thru to a new level or something. The fact that several of the vids did not help you speaks more to you than the vids.

Actually what I wrote is that his videos were the least helpful. But yes compared to a pro videos have modest value overall.

In fact, Majordude played HS tennis, which means you may not even be to his level of knowledge or play. As a beginner, you are in a position to learn from the videos, not evaluate the instruction (other than personal taste for viewing experience). If you knew enough to evaluate them, then you would not be a beginner would you?

Your back to that stupid theory. You don't have to be a great player to evalute instruction. If you already know how to play at a high level how can you claim that a video is good for teaching a beginner?

Its precisely a beginner who would benefit the most from said instruction. <g> And its the players a video is targetting that would be best able to evalute its efficacy.

Pete

GuyClinch
10-26-2009, 06:43 AM
What are you saying here?

This Wegner and MTM stuff have been interesting to me. What is your grudge against Wegner?

Yes. I believe Wegner markets his videos as some kind of super secret sauce that will catapult your tennis game. I don't believe this is accurate. They are tennis videos. They can help your game some but don't think that Wegner is the only game in town. Its not any different then any other sport.

I am sure that the "better basketball videos" can indeed help you play better basketball if you work on the drills and such they recommend. But so can "Magics Fundamentals" or the other basketball videos. <g>

Wegner's marketing theory seems to feed on this 'secret sauce" idea - that if you listen to him - bam your game gets catapulted. I feel thats dishonest. I don't like that. Its the same idea behind his "learn to play tennis in two hours." He is selling you on easy fast improvement.

I like Dave Smith's book.. For example to obtain a 4.0 rating he says..

Play 3 times a week and attend two clinics each week or 1hr with a private coach.

I play once a week (on average) and take maybe 5 to 6 lessons a year. I don't feel any 'shame" that I am not a league 4.0 yet. I am better then many of my 3.5 buddies who play alot more then me. You have to work to improve your game. Its actual physical effort and training just like any other sport.

FWIW a league 4.0 is a pretty good player. I don't consider myself a "beginner" at all. We should be careful to distinguish here because the majority of self-rated players can't play anywhere close to their stated levels.

Pete

5263
10-26-2009, 06:59 AM
If I played at high levels why would I need videos that target beginners?
Actually what I wrote is that his videos were the least helpful. But yes compared to a pro videos have modest value overall.

Your back to that stupid theory. You don't have to be a great player to evalute instruction. If you already know how to play at a high level how can you claim that a video is good for teaching a beginner.

Its precisely a beginner who would benefit the most from said instruction. <g> And its the players a video is targetting that would be best able to evalute its efficacy.
Pete

Interesting Pete, as you seem to think that beginner is in a good position to evaluate a Very experienced instructor? Majordude asked for others to help him evaluate and make suggestions, because he understands that as a beginner, he does not have the background to know who is best or even very good. Because a vid is for a beginner player does not in any way mean they are ready to evaluate that vid except other than taste.

When an instructor goes to teach for a certification, does USPTA have 3.5 players judge him or do they have a top level clinician evaluate him? (notice I did not say touring pro) No, the 3.5 are in the class to receive instruction.
They may ask the 3.5 for his input or enjoyment of the process, but not his judgment on the correctness of the technique or stroke.
But hey, you are entitled to your opinion for sure.

volusiano
10-26-2009, 07:11 AM
So I went on the Wegner tennisteacher.com website and download what I thought was the forehand demo video to see what the hype is all about. I sat through the whole 18 minutes of it expecting to see Wegner's secret recipe on the forehand, but instead about 15 of it was like watching an infomercial. That's 15 minutes of my life wasted that I can't take back. Only about 3 minutes relates to the actual forehand technique, and no secret revealed either. On closer inspection, the video was actually titled "Instruction of MIT study of MTM" more or less. But cleverly inserted into the instructional example pages to trick people to watch it.

First, the MIT coach demonstrated how easy it was to "find the ball" and just hit it. I wonder how "finding the ball" is so revolutionary and different than conventional teaching method anyway? Even a beginner would know that they have to "find the ball" without needing to be taught. If you just stand there and don't "find" it, it's not going to "find" you. Duh!!! Maybe conventional teaching call it "footwork", but it's the same thing. It's so fundamental that it's like telling people to "open your mouth" as a first step when you "eat".

Then the MIT coach demonstrates the allegedly "bad" thing conventional teaching does: the racket take back. He literally swung the racket back, held it back, then ran around to "find the ball" next with the racket behind him the whole time. I've never ever seen any tennis player does this, taught or not taught by conventional methods, beginner or intermediate or advanced. I think it's such an exaggeration and twisting of the truth at the expense of conventional methods that it's shame-less to put on the video.

Then I sat through and listened to a player who claims that he's been playing tennis for 14 years when his MIT coach introduced him to the Wegner videos and he watched it and after 1 night he felt that he's wasted all his money the last 14 years learning tennis the (wrong) conventional way. Boy, this is pretty class-less I think to put up such a testimony to trash conventional teaching again.

Then I sat through the last part of the video to see "the man" himself (Oscar Wegner) being interviewed on court. He took credit for Richard Williams adopting his method for the William sisters, among other things (don't know if true or not, I'm not disputing, just reporting here). Then when asked, he said the most important thing about his method is to find the ball, touch it and release it. That's it. He claims that he's taught beginners his method and within 15-30 minutes, they're able to hit the ball with a lot of control and can rally 40-50 balls back and forth easily. Then the interviewer prompts him to introduce his new book, the MTM. Boy, I felt like I've watched one of those "lose your weight in 10 days" infomercial or something at the end of the video.

My impression of the whole MTM thing is that it's more about a new movement to "sell" tennis instruction than to "teach" tennis. I'm not criticizing the teaching "method" per se because I haven't bought or watch any of his 8 DVDs or books. But I guess Oscar has probably finally found a marketing genius somewhere to help drive a very strong campaign here to to promote and sell his MTM method through DVDs, books and coaching certification. And this forum is also another perfect medium to promote it. Which is fine with me, because we're a free market here. So the more creative ways he can come up with to market and promote his business, the more power to him.

What I don't like is how it's being done at the expense of putting down "conventional" tennis teaching, if you can call it that. The labeling between "Modern" (in MTM) and the rest as "conventional" is again another clever way to self-promote the Wegner stuff as "new". But I failed to see how the Wegner stuff is revolutionary because there's nothing new about it. The "claim to fame" is to "dumb down" the whole thing and claim that the MTM simplifies the game of tennis because tennis is such an easy game to play. And the "conventional" teaching method is bad because they make it so complicated.

Well, if it's so simple and easy to learn with the Wegner method, why does it still take 8 DVDs to teach it? Isn't "finding, touching and releasing" the ball enough?

5263
10-26-2009, 07:24 AM
So I went on the Wegner tennisteacher.com website and download what I thought the forehand demo video to see what the hype is all about.
Well, if it's so simple and easy to learn with the Wegner method, why does it still take 8 DVDs to teach it? Isn't "finding, touching and releasing" the ball enough?

I appreciate your post. Informed and well articulated. While I don't agree, I respect your thoughts and perspective. No one seems to get so riled about Nick's "Killer Forehand" hype or Braden's many claims of coaching myths, but that is fine. People develop preferences, and sometimes for good reasons.

volusiano
10-26-2009, 07:39 AM
I appreciate your post. Informed and well articulated. While I don't agree, I respect your thoughts and perspective. No one seems to get so riled about Nick's "Killer Forehand" hype or Braden's many claims of coaching myths, but that is fine. People develop preferences, and sometimes for good reasons.

And I also respect that you like MTM, 5263. If you find it effective for you and want to recommend it so others can benefit from it, there's nothing wrong with it. After all, that's what this forum is all about. Helping others be better informed through our own personal experience with tennis.

Again, just to clarify, I'm not criticizing MTM per se as an instructional technique because I've never seen or read any MTM DVDs or books, so I don't have an opinion of the technique. I only have an opinion of that MIT video I saw.

5263
10-26-2009, 07:44 AM
And I also respect that you like MTM, 5263. If you find it effective for you and want to recommend it so others can benefit from it, there's nothing wrong with it. After all, that's what this forum is all about. Helping others be better informed through our own personal experience with tennis.

Again, just to clarify, I'm not criticizing MTM per se as an instructional technique because I've never seen or read any MTM DVDs or books, so I don't have an opinion of the technique. I only have an opinion of that MIT video I saw.

Yes, as long as we all keep this you said in mind-

"If you find it effective for you and want to recommend it so others can benefit from it, there's nothing wrong with it. After all, that's what this forum is all about. Helping others be better informed through our own personal experience with tennis."

we will all be Ok for the most part.
thanks,

sureshs
10-26-2009, 07:51 AM
THIS WAS IN OSCAR'S LATEST NEWSLETTER, AND BEARS DIRECTLY ON WHAT I TALKED ABOUT ABOVE:

What's The Problem?

A long and early backswing can make you lose your control of the ball.

Further, taking the racquet back early can stick some of your attention on where the racquet is behind you.

Now, with your racquet far back, usually before or during the bounce, you have to pay attention to two paths and make them meet. The earliest you make this calculations, the more difficulty you introduce to your game and the more prone you'll be to misjudgement and mishits.

But top pros seem to have long swings when hitting hard. How could someone emulate the pros and achieve the same results?

Read below.
The Optimal Solution

There are two things that come into play that give power to your shot. One is momentum and the other is acceleration. Momentum is the force from the forward speed of the racquet, while you can increase that force considerably by accelerating the racquet.

I have been de-emphasizing momentum so people pay more attention to acceleration.

Why? This is because minimizing the backswing, or taking the racquet slowly up to the ball (or close enough), helps find it and control the shot. That usually corrects unforced errors.

Now, when you become a master at this, and your attention stays in front and not behind you, you can make your swing bigger and bigger.

What I usually say to a student, after he or she masters the control of the ball, is to hit the ball harder, then harder, but GRADUALLY, so they take the racquet back without THINKING of the backswing. As a result, the backswing becomes bigger, but the player is not thinking about it. His whole attention stays in front and then on the finish of the stroke.

If the person has learned a good finish across the body, this action of delaying the backswing actually increases the finish.

Witness the story of Andre Agassi Wimbledon win in 1992. Before Wimbledon Agassi was practicing with John McEnroe in Paris. Agassi asked McEnroe: "how do you play on grass", to which McEnroe replied: "on grass courts, no backswing".

Does this mean that Andre Agassi did not have a backswing at Wimbledon? Not quite, but his attention to keeping the racquet in front delayed his backswing to where his whole attention became instinctive, practically instantaneous, and he Zoned in (seeing the ball slower than usual). Which prompted, in later years, Agassi's seemingly illogical statement: "I hit the ball when it stops".

Thank you, John McEnroe, for this tip. I consider it the greatest tennis tip ever. Sorry it cost you your 1992 Wimbledon (McEnroe lost to an inspired Agassi in the semifinals, in what was deemed to be, by that stage of the tournament, McEnroe's year to win).

Why is this process so successful in teaching? Because your backswing becomes instinctive, produced by your desire to power the ball, not a product of stuck pictures in your mind

Now he is saying early takeback is a good thing? I find all pros preparing very early for their shots. By his own token of teaching pro skills from the start, shouldn't he be emphasizing early takeback too??? Or is he saying pro skills should not be taught early, which contradicts what he says?

5263
10-26-2009, 08:00 AM
Now he is saying early takeback is a good thing? I find all pros preparing very early for their shots. By his own token of teaching pro skills from the start, shouldn't he be emphasizing early takeback too??? Or is he saying pro skills should not be taught early, which contradicts what he says?

He uses some slightly different terms. That position you see in the pros in where the off hand is still on the racket throat is not considered back in MTM. That is stalking the ball still. Racket back in MTM refers to having the racket face and hand behind your back shoulder.
There was a time when MTM was developed where many other coaches taught a unit turn with racket all the way back upon side recognition and to run to the ball like that. I hear it is still in quickstart and u can see many Jrs do it still.
No Pros do this that I am aware of.
Does that help?

volusiano
10-26-2009, 08:15 AM
There was a time when MTM was developed where many other coaches taught a unit turn with racket all the way back upon side recognition and to run to the ball like that. I hear it is still in quickstart and u can see many Jrs do it still.

Really? If it's been actually taught like that in a wide-spread manner then I'll have to take back what I said about the MIT coach exaggerating that motion in that MIT video. I've never seen anybody does that personally, however, but then I haven't been playing tennis that long.

mike53
10-26-2009, 08:40 AM
Really? If it's been actually taught like that in a wide-spread manner then I'll have to take back what I said about the MIT coach exaggerating that motion in that MIT video. I've never seen anybody does that personally, however, but then I haven't been playing tennis that long.

You can see this pretty clearly in videos of the very young Chris Everet. Yes, it is still in the Quickstart material, but you won't see much of it in practice if you watch a beginning tennis class these days.

sureshs
10-26-2009, 08:47 AM
He uses some slightly different terms. That position you see in the pros in where the off hand is still on the racket throat is not considered back in MTM. That is stalking the ball still. Racket back in MTM refers to having the racket face and hand behind your back shoulder.
There was a time when MTM was developed where many other coaches taught a unit turn with racket all the way back upon side recognition and to run to the ball like that. I hear it is still in quickstart and u can see many Jrs do it still.
No Pros do this that I am aware of.
Does that help?

Really? If it's been actually taught like that in a wide-spread manner then I'll have to take back what I said about the MIT coach exaggerating that motion in that MIT video. I've never seen anybody does that personally, however, but then I haven't been playing tennis that long.

I have seen some adults do that in clinics, but not juniors. And the adults who did that also seemed to have a lousy overall game, so I don't know what to conclude.

All I know from my experience is that the takeback that I have is OK for the club level. But when I hit with a Div 2 girl I was taking lessons from, it definitely wasn't OK. She asked me to take the racquet back much earlier to return her shots, but I just could not. That is where physical reflex limitations come in. But I think if you don't take racquet back early in any significant level of play, you are toast.

5263
10-26-2009, 08:52 AM
I have seen some adults do that in clinics, but not juniors. And the adults who did that also seemed to have a lousy overall game, so I don't know what to conclude.

All I know from my experience is that the takeback that I have is OK for the club level. But when I hit with a Div 2 girl I was taking lessons from, it definitely wasn't OK. She asked me to take the racquet back much earlier to return her shots, but I just could not. That is where physical reflex limitations come in. But I think if you don't take racquet back early in any significant level of play, you are toast.

watch Fed, Nadal, and most of the pros. That is the tk bk of MTM. We are just quibbling over terms, so no prob.

NamRanger
10-26-2009, 09:00 AM
Wow, this thread quickly turned into a Oscar / MTM advertising thread.



Instead of long drawn out paragraphs about how MTM is so great, you could have just said "Hey, check this out." And Oscar supporters wonder why they get so much flak -_-

5263
10-26-2009, 09:44 AM
Wow, this thread quickly turned into a Oscar / MTM advertising thread.



Instead of long drawn out paragraphs about how MTM is so great, you could have just said "Hey, check this out." And Oscar supporters wonder why they get so much flak -_-

Nothing wrong with talking good about something and it is topic thread appropriate.
If you are impressed by a system you have used, people would like to hear your experience too.

Mick
10-26-2009, 09:44 AM
i don't know much about oscar but he sounds almost like a cult leader to his followers :shock:

GuyClinch
10-26-2009, 10:19 AM
Glad some sanity returned to this thread. I was just trying to save some dude $100 bucks. But the wegnerites got to him first... Oh and I am not "good enough" to evaluate tennis videos. I will remember that the next time I eat at some fancy restraunt. I guess I am not good enough to evaluate overpriced food eh?

Cindysphinx
10-26-2009, 11:54 AM
i don't know much about oscar but he sounds almost like a cult leader to his followers :shock:

Ditto.

Stuff like this can be found in so many different areas.

"Buy this DVD set and learn to play the piano in a weekend!!!!!!!!!!!"


"Buy this DVD set and learn to play golf in a weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Yeah. Right. Whatever.

If you want to learn to play tennis and you are 45 and not in shape, get some instruction and get in better shape. There's nothing revolutionary about learning to play tennis at the recreational level. Take some fitness, a racket and whatever God-given athletic ability you may possess and go have fun.

I offer that advice for free. No need to buy my DVD set. :)

Cindy -- also thinking the Wegner people are doing themselves more harm than good by hijacking threads with such religious fervor

VaBeachTennis
10-26-2009, 12:52 PM
I think the best way to understand MTM's system, is to have it come right from Oscar's "mouth" directly. Much of what he says, is pretty helpful. I also agree that much of it is not "new", but he does have a good way of explaining things.

Here's an interesting read from one of his books, it starts off on Chapter 1, I have gotten as far as Chapter 16. Decide for yourselves if it's "worth it".

Wegner Tennis (http://www.tennisteacher.com/chapter_1.htm)

Here where I got the link to the book from:

Oscar's Tips (http://www.tennisw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5977)

He says some good stuff here as well. If I were trying to promote Oscar's MTM, I would simply reference the words that come out of his mouth.
This is coming from someone who thinks that this thread (it's beginning and onward), is some sort of "Guerrilla Marketing" ploy...................
I'm probably wrong but it sure seems that way.

5263
10-26-2009, 02:00 PM
Yeah. Right. Whatever.

I offer that advice for free. No need to buy my DVD set. :)

Cindy -- also thinking the Wegner people are doing themselves more harm than good by hijacking threads with such religious fervor

I'm not surprised by Pete, who is better than many of his 3.5 buddies and has realized that 4.0 is beyond his grasp since he was unable to find the secret sauce of legends told. But I'm pretty surprised you Cindy to go to the name calling and religious slur type comments. Hijacking what? All the post were direct to the OP questions. Posters were making positive suggestions directly to the thread subject, then this Goober comes on, trashing Oscar with untrue info.
You think religious fever, hijacking, Wegner people are evil to try to clear up the blatant mis info handed out by this person. And you come in with both feet, with more insulting slurs than several of the MTM supporters put together. wow

goober
10-26-2009, 02:08 PM
I'm not surprised by Pete, who is better than many of his 3.5 buddies and has realized that 4.0 is beyond his grasp since he was unable to find the secret sauce of legends told. But I'm pretty surprised you Cindy to go to the name calling and religious slur type comments. Hijacking what? All the post were direct to the OP questions. Posters were making positive suggestions directly to the thread subject, then this Goober comes on, trashing Oscar with untrue info.
You think religious fever, hijacking, Wegner people are evil to try to clear up the blatant mis info handed out by this person. And you come in with both feet, with more insulting slurs than several of the MTM supporters put together. wow
Uh what are you going on about? All I did was link 4 long threads and said to read them and make up your own mind. I added no commentary good or bad. I did not trash him. On the threads linked there were people who were for against the Wegner method. It was simply added information from additional posters. I could have said the typical " Do a search" comment that is often thrown out on forums. Again how is that trashing?

Please reread my comments before you make stuff up. You are only adding to the perception that you are trying to avoid.

5263
10-26-2009, 02:25 PM
Uh what are you going on about? All I did was link 4 long threads and said to read them and make up your own mind. I added no commentary good or bad. I did not trash him. On the threads linked there were people who were for against the Wegner method. It was simply added information from additional posters. I could have said the typical " Do a search" comment that is often thrown out on forums. Again how is that trashing?

Please reread my comments before you make stuff up. You are only adding to the perception that you are trying to avoid.

If I didn't read enough of the threads you linked, I apologize right now. Serious.
But all the post were in a positive nature til bringing up all that old mis info trash.
I looked at several and they were full of mis-info, so I take it by sending him that way, you agree with you steer someone to it and have to take some responsibility for that. Maybe you didn't type it, but you still linked it just the same. Apparently the OP took them pretty negative too, as he thanked for steering him clear, right?

And I did think it was funny to say some Goober did it. chuckle

Cindysphinx
10-26-2009, 02:53 PM
I'm not surprised by Pete, who is better than many of his 3.5 buddies and has realized that 4.0 is beyond his grasp since he was unable to find the secret sauce of legends told. But I'm pretty surprised you Cindy to go to the name calling and religious slur type comments. Hijacking what? All the post were direct to the OP questions. Posters were making positive suggestions directly to the thread subject, then this Goober comes on, trashing Oscar with untrue info.
You think religious fever, hijacking, Wegner people are evil to try to clear up the blatant mis info handed out by this person. And you come in with both feet, with more insulting slurs than several of the MTM supporters put together. wow

Hey, all I know is the guy came on and asked a straightforward question. About five posts answered the question without directing OP to spend a bunch of money on a DVD set. The rest read like infomercials to me. Blech.

I'm sorry if you didn't take kindly to my remarks about you Wegner people sounding like a cult, but I stand by that characterization. The "reviews" of Wegner by his advocates here hardly sound fair and balanced to me. Closer to "too good to be true."

goober
10-26-2009, 03:29 PM
If I didn't read enough of the threads you linked, I apologize right now. Serious.
But all the post were in a positive nature til bringing up all that old mis info trash.
I looked at several and they were full of mis-info, so I take it by sending him that way, you agree with you steer someone to it and have to take some responsibility for that. Maybe you didn't type it, but you still linked it just the same. Apparently the OP took them pretty negative too, as he thanked for steering him clear, right?


I did a search and linked the the longest threads on the matter without picking and choosing negative ones. Do a search and see for yourself. This topic has been discussed many times before, so rather than get into a long thread about it again, he could read the previous ones. Obviously that didn't work.

If OP thanked me for steering him away from it, then that is what he gleaned from it, not what I told him to get from it. If it bothers you that some of the people posting in those threads don't agree with you, that is your problem. I don't really care one way or another. I have never bought one of Wegners DVDs and only have read about him on various internet sites. So I don't have an opinion on the matter. My intent was to get him to research topics, because many things have been discussed over and over on these boards- do not simply accept what somebody posts as "the answer".

5263
10-26-2009, 03:50 PM
I did a search and linked the the longest threads on the matter without picking and choosing negative ones. Do a search and see for yourself. This topic has been discussed many times before, so rather than get into a long thread about it again, he could read the previous ones. Obviously that didn't work.

If OP thanked me for steering him away from it, then that is what he gleaned from it, not what I told him to get from it. If it bothers you that some of the people posting in those threads don't agree with you, that is your problem. I don't really care one way or another. I have never bought one of Wegners DVDs and only have read about him on various internet sites. So I don't have an opinion on the matter. My intent was to get him to research topics, because many things have been discussed over and over on these boards- do not simply accept what somebody posts as "the answer".

Hey, no sweat. I was mainly pointing to where things turned and it happened to be when that stuff was brought in. I probably sound more serious about this than I mean to, but just found it funny with your screen name and all. I figured you picked it cause it was funny too. But I not concerned about someone not agreeing with me, but lies in some of those post are hard to take, but I am getting used to it. lol

majordude
10-26-2009, 04:12 PM
Gang, I am the original poster.

I appreciate all your input. I just spent $300 on rackets, could spend $200 more on shoes, bags and gym cloths. I picked up a Tennis magazine and there were ads in there for Rolex watches for Christ sakes... this could be an expensive sport or hobby.

Someone was trying to be helpful and suggested Wenger. Someone else suggested I check Wenger out first.

$100 for 8 DVDs is like a link on one of those Rolex watches so what the hell. If it works, great, if not I'll return it or sell it on **** or maybe here on this forum. One group of you will buy it for training and the other half of you could use it for target practice. :-)

VaBeachTennis
10-26-2009, 04:24 PM
Gang, I am the original poster.

I appreciate all your input. I just spent $300 on rackets, could spend $200 more on shoes, bags and gym cloths. I picked up a Tennis magazine and there were ads in there for Rolex watches for Christ sakes... this could be an expensive sport or hobby.

Someone was trying to be helpful and suggested Wenger. Someone else suggested I check Wenger out first.

$100 for 8 DVDs is like a link on one of those Rolex watches so what the hell. If it works, great, if not I'll return it or sell it on **** or maybe here on this forum. One group of you will buy it for training and the other half of you could use it for target practice. :-)

Wow man, that's a LOT of money to spend on racquets when just beginning...................... Good luck!!! You just dropped approx $400 in 2 days on tennis stuff. But hey, I'm a cheap mofo when it comes to buying equipment. 10 months after I started back into tennis, I bought a used Wilson Hyper Pro Staff 6.1 from a tennis shop for $50, before that I used some cheap Walmart racquet to practice against the wall. Two years later, I bought a Head LM Radical for $25 bucks and a Volkl DNX10 for $25 bucks from a local tennis pro/hitting partner.

As far as the DVD's, I wouldn't use them as target practice. If you want to sell them for $25 bucks when you are done with them, hit me up man!!!! LOL

5263
10-26-2009, 05:06 PM
Gang, I am the original poster.

I appreciate all your input. I just spent $300 on rackets, could spend $200 more on shoes, bags and gym cloths. I picked up a Tennis magazine and there were ads in there for Rolex watches for Christ sakes... this could be an expensive sport or hobby.

Someone was trying to be helpful and suggested Wenger. Someone else suggested I check Wenger out first.

$100 for 8 DVDs is like a link on one of those Rolex watches so what the hell. If it works, great, if not I'll return it or sell it on **** or maybe here on this forum. One group of you will buy it for training and the other half of you could use it for target practice. :-)
You got the right attitude and will probably make a good player. Hope your wife stays interested with you on this. Its a great way to get out together.

majordude
10-26-2009, 06:54 PM
As far as the DVD's, I wouldn't use them as target practice. If you want to sell them for $25 bucks when you are done with them, hit me up man!!!! LOL

I might just do that! :-)

Mick
10-26-2009, 07:19 PM
you can't borrow racquet, shoes, or clothes but you can check out instructional tennis dvds at the public library :)

NamRanger
10-26-2009, 09:07 PM
Nothing wrong with talking good about something and it is topic thread appropriate.
If you are impressed by a system you have used, people would like to hear your experience too.



You wrote a huge advertisement post basically dude.

Bungalo Bill
10-27-2009, 07:57 AM
Most people are impressed with something they lacked skill in or were missing. When someone doesn't know how to teach tennis, and finds something that will help them, they usually look to that system as a godsend.

Then the advertising (gun-ho) begins based on barely trying it. Still, instruction is instruction and strokes are strokes. Nothing has been "invented" except the way someone chooses to teach what is known and taught by others. If a packaged system is a godsend for a person that cant teach, analyze, or communicate, then more power to them. Still the instructon is just a perspective, an opinion, an angle.

mike53
10-27-2009, 08:12 AM
$100 for 8 DVDs is like a link on one of those Rolex watches


Not even. If the videos get you out on the court and playing, then they're well worth the money.

5263
10-27-2009, 09:06 AM
There are people who can never be impressed, as they are so impressed with themselves, thus very unaware of their shortcomings. I understand it is a mark of lower intellect, when things tend to mostly look all the same, and the individual is unable to pick up on subtle, but important differences, thus leading to very mediocre results.

mike53
10-27-2009, 09:19 AM
I understand it is a mark of lower intellect, when things tend to mostly look all the same, and the individual is unable to pick up on subtle, but important differences, thus leading to very mediocre results.

That may be the origin of the common saying that "C students run the world". And that may be optimistic.

sureshs
10-27-2009, 09:24 AM
That may be the origin of the common saying that "C students run the world". And that may be optimistic.

I was suprised that the same idea is prevalent and endorsed in management theory. Supposedly, a good manager is someone with high EQ (emotional quotient), a non-perfectionist, just an average person, and a simple happy kind of character. Highly-strung sensitive intellectual types are actually considered to be bad candidates for management.

majordude
11-01-2009, 06:46 PM
I posted a review of Oscar's training...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4072554