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View Full Version : Donald Young's first loss to a player younger than him


lambielspins
10-21-2009, 09:22 AM
Donald Young is now 20 and still hasnt lost to a player younger than him. When will he suffer his first loss to a player younger than him.

Dilettante
10-21-2009, 09:23 AM
Good question.


Ooops, wait... not.

IvanAndreevich
10-21-2009, 09:57 AM
Is this a repost? I remember there was a thread like this before.

MajinX
10-21-2009, 11:49 AM
i think beating someone older is more impressive than not losing to anyone younger.

35ft6
10-21-2009, 01:38 PM
i think beating someone older is more impressive than not losing to anyone younger.He's been doing this his whole life so it's not really worth mentioning.

Ryan Harrison? There hasn't been a player like Nadal, Hewitt, Chang, or Gasquet in a while. A Masters Series level player at the age of 16.

Inner Game
10-21-2009, 02:37 PM
Donald Young is now 20 and still hasnt lost to a player younger than him. When will he suffer his first loss to a player younger than him.

Donald Young might never lose to a player younger then him as he will probably out of tennis in 2 years....

Tennis_Crazed
10-21-2009, 02:55 PM
Inevitable... but he's still a great player with a lot of potential!

OliverSimon
10-21-2009, 03:57 PM
Still don't get it!!:twisted::twisted::confused:
Double post

edmondsm
10-21-2009, 04:19 PM
Donald Young might never lose to a player younger then him as he will probably out of tennis in 2 years....

Probably right. DY can't seem to beat any legit pro (outside of Feliciano Lopez for some reason). A couple years ago he looked like he might be maturing as a player, but his results are totally pedestrian now. He won't be able to make a living at the rate he's going.

It's really too bad. His parents should write a book called, "How To Flush Talent Down the Toilet."

NamRanger
10-21-2009, 04:21 PM
Probably right. DY can't seem to beat any legit pro (outside of Feliciano Lopez for some reason). A couple years ago he looked like he might be maturing as a player, but his results are totally pedestrian now. He won't be able to make a living at the rate he's going.

It's really too bad. His parents should write a book called, "How To Flush Talent Down the Toilet."



Personally I thought his talent was always overrated; he doesn't have the athleticism IMO nor the ball striking abilities to compete.

edmondsm
10-21-2009, 04:31 PM
Personally I thought his talent was always overrated; he doesn't have the athleticism IMO nor the ball striking abilities to compete.

I don't get the athleticism thing. Have you ever seen him play? He moves like a gazelle. His ballstriking is another story. But I see that as being symptomatic of his parents refusal to get him coaching from outside the family. I think a good coach would have changed his fh mechanics.

Inner Game
10-21-2009, 04:39 PM
It's the parents for sure...they smelled big money years ago when he was 15 and didn't put Donald where he needed to be....either in Spain, France to really learn how to win....

grafselesfan
10-21-2009, 04:45 PM
I find his biggest problem is he makes too many unforced errors.

NamRanger
10-21-2009, 04:47 PM
I don't get the athleticism thing. Have you ever seen him play? He moves like a gazelle. His ballstriking is another story. But I see that as being symptomatic of his parents refusal to get him coaching from outside the family. I think a good coach would have changed his fh mechanics.



He can move fast but he's not very strong. Can't seem to put a ball away like most of the top 100 can.

grafselesfan
10-21-2009, 04:53 PM
Here is one good player who seems to have alot of trouble with Young though:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=Y124&oId=L397

Now that surprises me. Young was actually well up in that U.S Open match so might have even won all 3.

Serendipitous
10-21-2009, 04:58 PM
Young will never be a top player unless he changes his tactics.


I saw him play Robredo live in the first round of the US Open.


Robredo was pushing Young WAY behind the baseline and Young was just looping the ball back. His backhand is his weakness, and he hits it way too flat when he tries to attack.


Young was stuck behind the baseline pushing, and when he got any short balls he was so excited that he went for winners right away.


He did win a set, though, because he serves and volleys pretty well.


Young's fitness needs work, too. Is he still coached by his mother?

Kemitak
10-21-2009, 05:04 PM
I find his biggest problem is he makes too many unforced errors.

That's everybody's problem.

edmondsm
10-21-2009, 05:36 PM
He can move fast but he's not very strong. Can't seem to put a ball away like most of the top 100 can.

That's true, but would you characterize Federer as strong? That guy has skinnier arms then me, yet can hit a 100mph forehand no problem. Technique will get you winners just like muscles will. Plus, it's not like you have to be a winner machine to succeed on tour. Look at how loopy Nadal played back in 2005, yet was killing dudes.

The real thing with DY is his brain. He doesn't have an athlete's mind. I followed DY pretty closely for a while, and I can't tell you how many 6-7, 0-6 scorelines I saw. He can be totally in a match, lose the tiebreak, and then get blown off the court. The guy just folds mentally when he has a battle in front of him.

8pNADAL
10-21-2009, 05:42 PM
young is 6 foot and 72kg, whereas tim henman is 6-1 and 63kg lol

ubermeyer
10-21-2009, 05:47 PM
That's everybody's problem.

andy murray.

rafael nadal.

NamRanger
10-21-2009, 06:12 PM
That's true, but would you characterize Federer as strong? That guy has skinnier arms then me, yet can hit a 100mph forehand no problem. Technique will get you winners just like muscles will. Plus, it's not like you have to be a winner machine to succeed on tour. Look at how loopy Nadal played back in 2005, yet was killing dudes.

The real thing with DY is his brain. He doesn't have an athlete's mind. I followed DY pretty closely for a while, and I can't tell you how many 6-7, 0-6 scorelines I saw. He can be totally in a match, lose the tiebreak, and then get blown off the court. The guy just folds mentally when he has a battle in front of him.




Federer is definitely stronger than given credit for. He may not look it, but I can tell you from first hand experience it takes a mighty fine arm to be able to hit some of those crosscourt backhand passhing shots from 10 feet back in the court.



Donald Young is fast, but for a guy his size I think he actually needs to be even faster. The problem is he has absolutely no firepower from anywhere on the court (serve, forehand, backhand). This is why he can get beat up by random clay court specialists on his best surface. He simply lacks weapons. Once in awhile he gets hot and all of a sudden everything clicks, but that happens to alot of guys in the top 100.

maddogz32
10-21-2009, 06:22 PM
once he gets too old

8pNADAL
10-21-2009, 06:23 PM
well its good we wont have to hear about young anymore, there are better prospects surely now in america

NamRanger
10-21-2009, 06:27 PM
well its good we wont have to hear about young anymore, there are better prospects surely now in america


Isner seems like he can be a solid top 50 player for his career, and a dangerous floater in the draw. He might even get better and reach top 20 like Karlovic.

mtommer
10-21-2009, 07:03 PM
Can't seem to put a ball away like most of the top 100 can.

(But tennis isn't about pace!) :). Anyway, I happen to agree with you from the little I've seen of him and from what I saw when he played in the Nats tournament.

crash1929
10-21-2009, 07:40 PM
I didn't know that. I really like what I have seen from Donald young- which isn't much. I mean I haven't seen him play on tv yet but I have seen clips. His strokes look really nice and it looks like he moves very well. I think he will do well in his career. Some people mature a little slower. I have a feeling Donald is one of those people. Just a guess.

edmondsm
10-21-2009, 07:59 PM
Federer is definitely stronger than given credit for. He may not look it, but I can tell you from first hand experience it takes a mighty fine arm to be able to hit some of those crosscourt backhand passhing shots from 10 feet back in the court.



Donald Young is fast, but for a guy his size I think he actually needs to be even faster. The problem is he has absolutely no firepower from anywhere on the court (serve, forehand, backhand). This is why he can get beat up by random clay court specialists on his best surface. He simply lacks weapons. Once in awhile he gets hot and all of a sudden everything clicks, but that happens to alot of guys in the top 100.

I agree. And at the crux of the bolded bit there is that he doesn't have the mentality of a grinder, but he has the power of one. It's not like Tommy Robredo has carved out a sweet career in the top 20 by hitting winners. But Robredo won't give up, and he'll hit solid groundies until 2am. DY, it's like he wants to hit winners soooo bad, can't, and so he goes completely AWOL mentally as a result.

Kemitak
10-21-2009, 09:01 PM
andy murray.

rafael nadal.

Pushers. :-D

35ft6
10-21-2009, 09:27 PM
Personally I thought his talent was always overrated; he doesn't have the athleticism IMO nor the ball striking abilities to compete. He moves well. But he's not very aggressive, he uses his athleticism to sort of make a spectacular get every so often, not to put his feet into aggressive court position like Nadal or Hewitt or Blake. Just saw him play yesterday in Calabasas Challenger. His biggest problem is he seems almost embarrassed out there, he has the attitude of a spoiled junior. Lot of pouting, lots of racket throwing, and he hit about 10 double faults in the first set and didn't seem interested in making any adjustments. I'm speculating, but a part of me thinks he feels he's too good for the Challengers, would rather be giving his all against a player that will surely beat him than really zero in on an opponent ranked 348 in the world, which was what the ranking was of Louk Sorensen, the guy he was playing.The problem is he has absolutely no firepower from anywhere on the court (serve, forehand, backhand). This is why he can get beat up by random clay court specialists on his best surface. He simply lacks weapons. Once in awhile he gets hot and all of a sudden everything clicks, but that happens to alot of guys in the top 100.He does lack weapons. But he does seem to have great hands and feel. He's like Rios without the serve and extra gear on the groundstrokes. When he turned it on, he was taking the ball really early, hitting lines all over the place, really moving the ball around, stepping into the court, coming in at the end to put away the volley. He doesn't seem capable of maintaining that level, or is just unwilling? I'm surprised how he's beaten and taken sets off much higher ranked players. I'm guessing when he was nothing to lose, he takes the ball earlier and really goes after his shot patterns. In the Challenger, he was just looping the ball back and seemed angry and surprised that his opponent wasn't going to hand the match to him.

In a way, he reminds me of Kournikova, another player who needed to be firing on all cylinders to beat good players. She had talent but no weapon that could win her easy points and keep her in the match when she wasn't feeling it. Young's serve appears to still be very underpowered. And his second serve doesn't have a lot of action on it and looked like a slightly slower version of his first serve. Cecil Mamiit appeared to have a bigger serve. And maybe Young should try a new racket. I know it's a running joke around here about Fed using a bigger racket, but Young could use some more power on groundstrokes and he shanks a lot. His racket head looked small, I think he might still be using Prestige Classic under that paint job.

stormholloway
10-21-2009, 09:31 PM
i think beating someone older is more impressive than not losing to anyone younger.

Call me loopy for having a head cold, but is there a damn difference between the two?

tennis_hand
10-21-2009, 09:36 PM
young.

who?

edmondsm
10-21-2009, 09:43 PM
He moves well. But he's not very aggressive, he uses his athleticism to sort of make a spectacular get every so often, not to put his feet into aggressive court position like Nadal or Hewitt or Blake. Just saw him play yesterday in Calabasas Challenger. His biggest problem is he seems almost embarrassed out there, he has the attitude of a spoiled junior. Lot of pouting, lots of racket throwing, and he hit about 10 double faults in the first set and didn't seem interested in making any adjustments. I'm speculating, but a part of me thinks he feels he's too good for the Challengers, would rather be giving his all against a player that will surely beat him than really zero in on an opponent ranked 348 in the world, which was what the ranking was of Louk Sorensen, the guy he was playing.He does lack weapons. But he does seem to have great hands and feel. He's like Rios without the serve and extra gear on the groundstrokes. When he turned it on, he was taking the ball really early, hitting lines all over the place, really moving the ball around, stepping into the court, coming in at the end to put away the volley. He doesn't seem capable of maintaining that level, or is just unwilling? I'm surprised how he's beaten and taken sets off much higher ranked players. I'm guessing when he was nothing to lose, he takes the ball earlier and really goes after his shot patterns. In the Challenger, he was just looping the ball back and seemed angry and surprised that his opponent wasn't going to hand the match to him.

In a way, he reminds me of Kournikova, another player who needed to be firing on all cylinders to beat good players. She had talent but no weapon that could win her easy points and keep her in the match when she wasn't feeling it. Young's serve appears to still be very underpowered. And his second serve doesn't have a lot of action on it and looked like a slightly slower version of his first serve. Cecil Mamiit appeared to have a bigger serve. And maybe Young should try a new racket. I know it's a running joke around here about Fed using a bigger racket, but Young could use some more power on groundstrokes and he shanks a lot. His racket head looked small, I think he might still be using Prestige Classic under that paint job.

That's a great post 35.

You know it makes me think of a boxing/mma saying: There are guys who like to beat guys up, and then there are fighters. DY, Kournikova, maybe they are the tennis equivalent. They love it when they are winning, can't handle it or recover, when they're losing.

stanley
10-21-2009, 09:45 PM
Who is the No. 2 great American hope after Young?

edmondsm
10-21-2009, 11:50 PM
You never know Stanley. If you asked somebody that question in 1986 they probably would have said Michael Chang (who is the same age as Pete Sampras BTW).

35ft6
10-22-2009, 01:14 AM
DY, Kournikova, maybe they are the tennis equivalent. They love it when they are winning, can't handle it or recover, when they're losing.His mom was there. He really needs a real coach. I think if a good coach sent him into a match with some specific advice about that day's opponent, he might be able to concentrate on the game plan enough where he doesn't start pouting, moping around, throwing rackets, yelling, looking embarrassed out there. It would help his game and act as a distraction. I kind of felt bad for him. Earlier in the day, I saw him wandering around wearing his headphones. He was kind of wandering through the points for the better part of the first two sets as well.

I mean, he does have talent. His shots had a lot of flair compared to everybody else we saw. Cecil Mamiit was the most impressive that day, but he's like Agassi/Hewitt lite, just a machine out there. There is something beautiful about Donald's game, but I don't how in the world he can ever be top 50. I was going to type "25" but I can't even see him being top 50 right now. He looks confused. His mom needs to cut the chord, let him be a real pro, see how much he can improve. His talent has to become his weapon. None of his strokes look capable of becoming ATP level weapons. He needs to learn to become a Mac (I know it doesn't totally apply to Mac but...) or Rios or Santoro where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And he needs to improve that second serve. Yuck.

MichaelChang
10-22-2009, 04:25 AM
.but Young could use some more power on groundstrokes and he shanks a lot. His racket head looked small, I think he might still be using Prestige Classic under that paint job.

I think it was said that he uses the PT630 under the paint.

Rob_C
10-22-2009, 03:19 PM
Well, he's at it again. He beat Dent 3 & 2. Its getting a little repetitive, some flashes of potential, followed by some questionable losses.

He plays Gregorc next, should be a winnable match, plus he needs the pts cause he has some pts to defend from last year this time.

tomas9848
10-22-2009, 04:05 PM
he needs to get it together.

Rob_C
10-23-2009, 09:19 PM
DY won his qtr final match tonight pretty easily, 3 & 1. He playe Michael Yani next, another winnable match if he keeps it together. I'm not sure how high he can finish the year, but he should be striving for 104 in the rankings, if its possible.

Edit. Just checked the rankings, and DYs out of the top 200, he's at 229 right now, so getting to 104 looks out of the question. He's about 350 pts away from 104, plus he's dropping 84 pts on 11/2.

There are 3 US Challengers left, so thats 225 possible pts if he wins those. There are two more Challengers in Europe after the last US Challenger, dont know if he'll play those.

35ft6
10-24-2009, 02:24 PM
Man, Donald is ripping through the draw now. Wish I could have went to watch Mamiit play Russell. Anybody know who won?

Knightmace
10-24-2009, 03:03 PM
Federer is much more stronger than he looks

Rob_C
10-24-2009, 03:14 PM
Man, Donald is ripping through the draw now. Wish I could have went to watch Mamiit play Russell. Anybody know who won?

Its DY against Russell tomorrow for the title. DY won 3 & 1, Russell won 1 & 6.

NamRanger
10-24-2009, 05:04 PM
He moves well. But he's not very aggressive, he uses his athleticism to sort of make a spectacular get every so often, not to put his feet into aggressive court position like Nadal or Hewitt or Blake. Just saw him play yesterday in Calabasas Challenger. His biggest problem is he seems almost embarrassed out there, he has the attitude of a spoiled junior. Lot of pouting, lots of racket throwing, and he hit about 10 double faults in the first set and didn't seem interested in making any adjustments. I'm speculating, but a part of me thinks he feels he's too good for the Challengers, would rather be giving his all against a player that will surely beat him than really zero in on an opponent ranked 348 in the world, which was what the ranking was of Louk Sorensen, the guy he was playing.He does lack weapons. But he does seem to have great hands and feel. He's like Rios without the serve and extra gear on the groundstrokes. When he turned it on, he was taking the ball really early, hitting lines all over the place, really moving the ball around, stepping into the court, coming in at the end to put away the volley. He doesn't seem capable of maintaining that level, or is just unwilling? I'm surprised how he's beaten and taken sets off much higher ranked players. I'm guessing when he was nothing to lose, he takes the ball earlier and really goes after his shot patterns. In the Challenger, he was just looping the ball back and seemed angry and surprised that his opponent wasn't going to hand the match to him.

In a way, he reminds me of Kournikova, another player who needed to be firing on all cylinders to beat good players. She had talent but no weapon that could win her easy points and keep her in the match when she wasn't feeling it. Young's serve appears to still be very underpowered. And his second serve doesn't have a lot of action on it and looked like a slightly slower version of his first serve. Cecil Mamiit appeared to have a bigger serve. And maybe Young should try a new racket. I know it's a running joke around here about Fed using a bigger racket, but Young could use some more power on groundstrokes and he shanks a lot. His racket head looked small, I think he might still be using Prestige Classic under that paint job.




He has a big huge flaw in his forehand which causes him to be late, which results in tons of shanks and weak balls. It's on Yandell's site.



I agree, he plays sort of like Rios, but without the oomph. He can really turn it on and it appears to me he swings faster and swings more freely against top ranked players, which helps him out abit in the pace department (just enough to bother them). However, against every day normal opponents, he can just get crushed 0 and 0 without much trouble.

grafselesfan
10-24-2009, 05:14 PM
Isnt Young playing a tournament now? How is he doing. It is amazing such a mediocre player can be 20 and still having not lost to someone younger than him. It also looks like he rarely plays someone younger than him. I am pretty sure there is nobody under 20 even in the ATP top 100 right now either. Mens tennis really is a mens game, other than the rare freakish exceptions like Borg, Nadal, Becker, Chang, and possibly Sampras and Agassi.

35ft6
10-25-2009, 12:49 AM
Isnt Young playing a tournament now? How is he doing.He's in the finals of a Challenger. It is amazing such a mediocre player can be 20 and still having not lost to someone younger than him.He's doing as well as a lot less hyped people have done before him.It also looks like he rarely plays someone younger than him. I am pretty sure there is nobody under 20 even in the ATP top 100 right now either. Mens tennis really is a mens game, other than the rare freakish exceptions like Borg, Nadal, Becker, Chang, and possibly Sampras and Agassi.You're talking about Grand Slam wins, but a lot of solid pros, and top 10 pros, have made their marks as teens. A lot of solid pros, not even future hall of famers, have done way more than Donald Young by 20. With that said, who cares what people have done before him? He's obviously not going to be playing for immortality, if he makes it even into the top 25 he'll probably make some great money, he's very marketable. So if you're saying we should stop criticizing him for not meeting arbitrary benchmarks of our own making, then I might agree. But this is fun to talk about. He was heralded as being a major talent by a lot of knowledgeable people.

Rob_C
10-25-2009, 03:29 PM
Well, DY ended up taking the title in straights, 7-6, 6-1. It'd be nice to see him bite the bullet and play the last 2 Challengers of the year in Europe to try to get his ranking up for the start of next year.

35ft6
10-25-2009, 04:01 PM
^ Okay. I'm beginning to think I didn't get an accurate look at Donald Young. After the match I saw him play, he won with more convincing scores against much tougher opponents. Maybe the "glimmers" I saw is how he usually plays in most of the points. I'd really like to see him play again.

mtommer
10-25-2009, 04:22 PM
He was heralded as being a major talent by a lot of knowledgeable people.

And I'm glad he was given the shots he had. It's better to reward potential, knowing it may fail, than to force it to produce in the moment. Long term vs. short term. If DY never goes further at least we all know the answer to the question: "What could have been?".

Harry_Wild
10-25-2009, 10:50 PM
Donald's parents should of followed the Pete Sampass way of getting groom for the pro tour! Pete in the juniors played up an age or two.

He was always getting creamed in the beginning and got not so effected from loosing matches. He just began to get better at that level of play and so he did not win the tournament or was in the finals all the time but when he got into the Pro Tour he felt very comfortable because of his junior play! It was not that much different from his junior level play! In other words; he did not have any pressure on him to immediately perform like Donald Young had going into the Pro Tour! Sampass then started to improve his game like he did at the Junior level and that the rest of the story!

Moose Malloy
10-26-2009, 09:46 AM
Well, DY ended up taking the title in straights, 7-6, 6-1.

I saw the match. Young served for the 1st set at 5-4, & played a pretty crappy game to get broken & was very negative in the next game to go down 6-5. It seemed pretty likely that he was going to go away, credit to him for putting it behind him, which he hasn't been always good at(this is the third straight year I've seen him at Calabasas, he served for the 1st set last year against Warburg & ended up losing in straights, & was up a set & a break vs Kendrick the year before I think)

but he really didn't have to do much to win yesterday imo, Russell was pretty off from the start. He was constantly complaining about the balls, saying they were dead. Made a ton of ue's. there weren't a lot of long rallies considering both players are counterpuchers. Russell looked to be semi-tanking after he got broken early in the 2nd.
Was pretty windy.

A win's a win I guess, but I imagine its pretty tough for a former world #1 junior to be basically exclusively a challenger player. When he lost the final in '07 here, I remember the announcer saying, 'I doubt you'll be back next year'
2 years later, I wouldn't bet against him being in the 2010 Calabasas draw(along with Kendrick, Warburg, Ram, Russell, Bozoljac, Yani etc. who supports these guys financially? amazed they keep at it, so little prize money at these events)
Young's already played over 100 challenger matches in in his career, maybe he can catch up to Goldstein's records.

jazzyfunkybluesy
10-26-2009, 10:16 AM
Young would be better now if he had a proper coach when he was younger.

Rob_C
10-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Donald's parents should of followed the Pete Sampass way of getting groom for the pro tour! Pete in the juniors played up an age or two.

He was always getting creamed in the beginning and got not so effected from loosing matches. He just began to get better at that level of play and so he did not win the tournament or was in the finals all the time but when he got into the Pro Tour he felt very comfortable because of his junior play! It was not that much different from his junior level play! In other words; he did not have any pressure on him to immediately perform like Donald Young had going into the Pro Tour! Sampass then started to improve his game like he did at the Junior level and that the rest of the story!

DY doesnt have Sampras' serve. Take away Sampras' serve and he probably has about 5-6 less slams, much less all those other records.

Harry_Wild
10-26-2009, 06:50 PM
DY doesnt have Sampras' serve. Take away Sampras' serve and he probably has about 5-6 less slams, much less all those other records.

I agree! I was talk about expectations. Getting wild card at the start of the pro tour and loosing in the first round or possible second all the time. Usually wild card players turning pro usually do well in the draw e.g. John McEnroe, Andy Roddick, Andre Agassi, Jimmy Connors, etc...

darthpwner
10-26-2009, 06:53 PM
DY doesnt have Sampras' serve. Take away Sampras' serve and he probably has about 5-6 less slams, much less all those other records.

You are seriously underrating Sampras' overall game.

jazzyfunkybluesy
10-27-2009, 10:30 AM
Hes got to reduce the unforced errors he has loads.

Rob_C
10-27-2009, 12:10 PM
You are seriously underrating Sampras' overall game.

I dont think so.

Sampras' ability to serve his way out of trouble has won him alot of matches. He never really had to grind out pts/games on his serve. Look at his record on clay. Its not that good b/c his serve was neutralized to some extent.

Rob_C
10-27-2009, 12:14 PM
I agree! I was talk about expectations. Getting wild card at the start of the pro tour and loosing in the first round or possible second all the time. Usually wild card players turning pro usually do well in the draw e.g. John McEnroe, Andy Roddick, Andre Agassi, Jimmy Connors, etc...

I disagree. Look at Devin Britton, I still dont think he's won a MD pro match since turning pro, at any level, Futures, Challengers, or Tour level events.

I saw his name in a Futures in Spain for this week, and last week as well. I'm going from memory, so forgive any inaccuracies, but I think he came thru qualies, but lost 1st rd this week, and mi might have lost in qualies the week before.

Ryan Harrison is doing well at the Challenger level, but havent seen his name in a couple of weeks. Maybe he's taking some time off, maybe he got dinged up a little with all the matches he's had recently.